Government to mandate “black boxes” on passenger vehicles?

posted at 11:06 am on April 19, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Bruce McQuain at QandO picks up on an effort in the Senate to make cars even more expensive than ever.  The MAP-21 bill is already notorious for giving the IRS the power to confiscate passports on suspicion of tax evasion without getting a judge involved or a suspect a chance to defend himself, and its presence as part of the transportation bill makes it a little easier to pass unnoticed through the House.  Another section of MAP-21 would impose a mandate, starting in 2015, to equip every passenger vehicle sold in the US with a “black box” event data recording system:

SEC. 31406. VEHICLE EVENT DATA RECORDERS.

(a) Mandatory Event Data Recorders-

(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall revise part 563 of title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, to require, beginning with model year 2015, that new passenger motor vehicles sold in the United States be equipped with an event data recorder that meets the requirements under that part.

(2) PENALTY- The violation of any provision under part 563 of title 49, Code of Federal Regulations–

(A) shall be deemed to be a violation of section 30112 of title 49, United States Code;

(B) shall be subject to civil penalties under section 30165(a) of that title; and

(C) shall not subject a manufacturer (as defined in section 30102(a)(5) of that title) to the requirements under section 30120 of that title.

Title 49, section 563 relates the requirements for ground-transportation EDRs if added to a vehicle by a manufacturer.  It doesn’t require vehicles to include one — or it doesn’t at the moment.  S.1813 would change that to make it a requirement.

In other words, this will be similar to the black-box requirements for airplanes, used to reconstruct events after a crash or other incidents.  There are a lot of auto accidents in the US, but unlike with commercial aircraft, they don’t usually fall 30,000 feet.  The federal government mandated black boxes on aircraft because so little evidence otherwise survives a catastrophic crash, an outcome that’s rare among traffic accidents involving cars.

Besides that, the federal government has jurisdiction over aviation; they don’t over normal traffic.  If states saw a need for this requirement, they could impose it themselves.  California, for instance, has specific and unique requirements for emission systems in vehicles sold in the state, and automakers adapted by selling California-specific versions of their models.

The next question is who gets access to the data, and that’s a little murky.  The proposal states that the owner of the vehicle owns the data as well, but with some exceptions:

(b) Limitations on Information Retrieval-

(1) OWNERSHIP OF DATA- Any data in an event data recorder required under part 563 of title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, regardless of when the passenger motor vehicle in which it is installed was manufactured, is the property of the owner, or in the case of a leased vehicle, the lessee of the passenger motor vehicle in which the data recorder is installed.

(2) PRIVACY- Data recorded or transmitted by such a data recorder may not be retrieved by a person other than the owner or lessee of the motor vehicle in which the recorder is installed unless–

(A) a court authorizes retrieval of the information in furtherance of a legal proceeding;

(B) the owner or lessee consents to the retrieval of the information for any purpose, including the purpose of diagnosing, servicing, or repairing the motor vehicle;

(C) the information is retrieved pursuant to an investigation or inspection authorized under section 1131(a) or 30166 of title 49, United States Code, and the personally identifiable information of the owner, lessee, or driver of the vehicle and the vehicle identification number is not disclosed in connection with the retrieved information; or

(D) the information is retrieved for the purpose of determining the need for, or facilitating, emergency medical response in response to a motor vehicle crash.

In other words, the vehicle owner retains the data, until (a) a court or (c) and (d) government decides he doesn’t.  Speaking of which, what exactly does (d) mean?  I suppose this is based on the OnStar system, which relays GPS coordinates to a call center when airbags deploy, but that is a private transaction between the owner and the service.  This is supposedly a mandate for event-data recorders, not for transmitters and ongoing two-way communications.  What would a black box have to do with emergency response if all they do is record?  How much surveillance would these EDRs allow, anyway?

I suspect that this is an effort by the Senate to plow the road for a mileage tax.  With gasoline tax revenues expected to drop with the advent of electric and hybrid vehicles (a large assumption, by the way), Democrats have been looking for ways to recoup the lost revenue.  They have repeatedly discussed and occasionally proposed instituting a mileage tax, which would either force drivers to keep extensive records of their travel or to add a device that calculates mileage and transmits it to the government.  Forcing manufacturers to include EDRs would give future Congresses the device necessary for this step; all it would take would be a future modification to Title 49, part 563 to require mileage collection.  There doesn’t appear to be any other pressing reason to add EDRs to the family car.

Addendum: Some cars already include EDRs or their rough equivalents (and have to comply with the existing Title 49 part 563 when they do).  No one is arguing that manufacturers should be barred from adding them, but this should be a choice for manufacturers and buyers, not a mandate.


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Seriously, our liberties are being stripped away at the speed of light…and even Republicans are willing accomplices. Where are the leaders that seek to defend our Constitution?????

search4truth on April 19, 2012 at 11:09 AM

I think all these Senators need a black box lodged up their behinds!

MeatHeadinCA on April 19, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Dear Congress,
Stick that idea where the sun don’t shine.
Kind regards,
KTMOL

katy the mean old lady on April 19, 2012 at 11:11 AM

More Big Brotherism

Bitter Clinger on April 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM

A few more bills like that, and Ron Paul’s foreign policy will be a small price to pay for taking the chainsaw to the Fedzilla.

Archivarix on April 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Government to mandate “blackAfrican-American boxes” on passenger vehicles?

Racist…

affenhauer on April 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Black Box mandate from the Black Hole.

NoDonkey on April 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM

This will become the biggest episode of hacking ever. Put me down right now as some one who will be in violation. I will disable mine.

reddevil on April 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM

It’s a good thing we have them liberty lovin’ GOP’ers in control of the House.

kringeesmom on April 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM

I will never buy a new vehicle again.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

And by the way, couldn’t they come up with a better name? Imagine that, black box. They must be racists, or something.

Archivarix on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

I will drive pre-2015 used cars the rest of my life if this becomes law.

forest on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

It would record speed, direction, breaking activity, recent acceleration and so on. What if you got a big discount from your insurance company for having one? I don’t like the idea of government mandating it, don’t get me wrong, but if you could get a 20% discount from your insurer if you installed one, wouldja?

Akzed on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Already have one. I’m told by the tech, they are difficult to take out. It records nearly all stats on the vehicles movements, speeds etc.

Bmore on April 19, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Good Lord, the Husband hasn’t gotten over seat belts. Thanks anyway Congress, I already had the best parents ever, stop trying to meet the challenge.

Cindy Munford on April 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Seriously, our liberties are being stripped away at the speed of light…and even Republicans are willing accomplices. Where are the leaders that seek to defend our Constitution?????

search4truth on April 19, 2012 at 11:09 AM

We don’t have any. While we were sleeping we got an unaccountable aristocracy. What other definition fits?

dogsoldier on April 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Ralph Nader just had an orgasm.

MadisonConservative on April 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Seriously, our liberties are being stripped away at the speed of light…and even Republicans are willing accomplices. Where are the leaders that seek to defend our Constitution?????

search4truth on April 19, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Republican =! Conservative

That is what lost us Congress in 2006 when Republicans proved to be just as willing to expand the size and intrusiveness of government as democrats.

wildcat72 on April 19, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Besides that, the federal government has jurisdiction over aviation; they don’t over normal traffic.

The wait for flying cars is over.

NoDonkey on April 19, 2012 at 11:17 AM

What will it take to start a revolution? If our forefathers were alive, a tax like this would send them into a seething rage.

ICBMMan on April 19, 2012 at 11:18 AM

What problem are they trying to solve? Have we had an epidemic of auto crashes where no one knows why they happened?

OTOH, this would probably have been a benefit for Toyota when people were blaming faulty brakes for their own dumb mistakes. Maybe the automakers will think about that and decide to develop this voluntarily.

Dee2008 on April 19, 2012 at 11:18 AM

I will drive pre-2015 used cars the rest of my life if this becomes law.

forest on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Same here. Older, in fact. Something that doesn’t have and never had Onstar.

Gingotts on April 19, 2012 at 11:19 AM

It’s already here. The government doesn’t care. The insurance companies care. And insurance companies will require it if you choose to drive a vehicle that they are insuring.

keep the change on April 19, 2012 at 11:19 AM

And by the way, couldn’t they come up with a better name? Imagine that, black box. They must be racists, or something.

Archivarix on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

I would be more accuarate to call it the Obama box.

Bitter Clinger on April 19, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Yup, if I purchase a vehicle with one of these, the first thing I’m going to do is take it out.

But there’s a reason I still drive a 71 Mustang. I can do all the work on it, there’s no electronic devices overseeing things, and no stupid anti-pollution devices either.

TKindred on April 19, 2012 at 11:19 AM

In my travels, I found a very informative post/comment from someone called “anonymous” on another site. Can’t vouch for it, but I just wanted to throw it here:

Current required EDR data elements are:
-Delta-V, longitudinal
-Maximum delta-V,longitudinal
-Time, maximum delta-V
-Speed, vehicle indicated
-Engine throttle, % full (or accelerator pedal, % full)
-Service brake, on/off
-Ignition cycle, crash
-Ignition cycle,download
-Safety belt status, driver
-Frontal air bag warning lamp, on/off
-Frontal air bag deployment, time to deploy, in the case of a single stage air bag, or time to first stage deployment, in the case of a multi-stage air bag, driver
-Frontal air bag deployment, time to deploy, in the case of a single stage air bag, or time to first stage deployment, in the case of a multi-stage air bag, right front passenger
-Multi-event, number of events (1,2)
-Time from event 1 to 2
-Complete file recorded(yes, no)

It should be noted, however, that while SB 1813 requires that the DOT change 49 CFR 563 to make EDR’s mandatory, the 49 CRF 563 itself is administrative law … which is to say that DOT can change it without Congress.

FWIW, the specification does NOT RECORD DATA ONLY FOR A FEW MILLISECONDS BEFORE CRASH. Some of the data elements are to be recorded for the life of the vehicle.

I would be interested to see what data elements SB1813 adds to the mandatory 15 I listed. So, geocoordinate fields are not MANDATORY today. But they may be added at some later time. And of course, the manufacturer may add the information to the EDR as a business spinoff (like ONSTAR) at any time.

Here is the kicker in the DOT FAQ that is recorded for a host of questions about what the EDR records:
“Can EDRs record my conversations or a video?
NHTSA does not require EDRs to contain any personal identification information.”

Today, they don’t REQUIRE the EDR to collect your personal information.

FruitedPlain on April 19, 2012 at 11:20 AM

It’s already here. The government doesn’t care. The insurance companies care. And insurance companies will require it if you choose to drive a vehicle that they are insuring.

keep the change on April 19, 2012 at 11:19 AM

When the government is mandating it, the government cares. Ed’s point about this being a method to institute a mileage tax makes this even more the case.

Bitter Clinger on April 19, 2012 at 11:21 AM

I feel like the government adopted me, even though I wasn’t an orphan. I appreciate the gesture Daddy Gubbmint, but I’m already over 18 … Oh … really? Damn…

preallocated on April 19, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Democrats and RINOs, always look for more tax ‘revenue’ – the gaping insatiable maw of socialism…

CorporatePiggy on April 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM

I foresee a lot of older cars being kept around a lot longer than intended to dodge this shit.

teke184 on April 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM

To the left:

Free-range livestock: very very good

Free-range humanity: very very bad

Transpo on April 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM

- Behind on your taxes———No Car use
- Too many tickets————-No Car use
- Don’t buy health insurance—No Car use
- Don’t re-register your car—No Car use
- Use too much gas————-No Car use

Get the picture???…

PatriotRider on April 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Obama’s a genius. Immagine the jobs this will create. Manufacture the box. Install the box. Car owner pays to have it removed. Thats three job catagories. This is a winner no mater how you slice it. Unemployment is sure to go down now.

chicken thief on April 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM

I will never buy a new vehicle again.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Remember all those perfectly good old cars that were destroyed in the “Cash For Clunkers” program?

batterup on April 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Pushed by Harry Reid and Barbara Boxer… for our own good. Huge surprise, huh?

The best part is these mandated boxes will be built into the cost of the car, so we get to pay to be enslaved by our betters.

FruitedPlain on April 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Today, they don’t REQUIRE the EDR to collect your personal information.

FruitedPlain on April 19, 2012 at 11:20 AM

So they won’t know I crashed because I was reaching over the seat to swat one of the kids in back?

Dee2008 on April 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM

How long before we are all required to have a chip implanted?

bopbottle on April 19, 2012 at 11:24 AM

I am surprised they aren’t mandating this as a 2013 requirement to improve sales in 2012. It would be like Cash for Clunkers except instead of buying a new car to get something, we would buy new cars to avoid something!

sgmstv on April 19, 2012 at 11:24 AM

One of the ‘iffy’ things about electronics is that they’re known to “fail”.

GarandFan on April 19, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Hmmmmm… Perhaps a very strong magnet, placed in close proximity to the EDR, would cause the information to be… Uhhhhh… Never mind…

Mothers Finest on April 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM

I foresee a lot of older cars being kept around a lot longer than intended to dodge this shit.

teke184 on April 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Unfortunately, a lot of those were destroyed during Cash for Clunkers. I’m sensing a pattern here….

Dee2008 on April 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM

all it would take would be a future modification to Title 49, part 563 to require mileage collection.

Cars already have an instrument that does mileage collection.

FruitedPlain on April 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Ralph Nader just had an orgasm.

MadisonConservative on April 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM

…he better be careful…that could cause him a stroke!

KOOLAID2 on April 19, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Seriously, our liberties are being stripped away at the speed of light…and even Republicans are willing accomplices. Where are the leaders that seek to defend our Constitution?????

search4truth on April 19, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Yeah but those of us who want to repeal the 17th amendment are crazies.

If the Senators were representing the interests of the states do you think they would be even discussing this?

batterup on April 19, 2012 at 11:28 AM

It would record speed, direction, breaking activity, recent acceleration and so on. What if you got a big discount from your insurance company for having one? I don’t like the idea of government mandating it, don’t get me wrong, but if you could get a 20% discount from your insurer if you installed one, wouldja?

Akzed on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Like “Progressive” Insurance Co? No thanks. More likely we will be charged a fee for entering the city, like London.

txhsmom on April 19, 2012 at 11:28 AM

On the other hand, with these black boxes all those scam artists including Congress that tried to claim sudden acceleration with Toyotas would be SOL.

Still a bad idea though.

slickwillie2001 on April 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM

I don’t want to live in this control freak society.

Under tyranny, people were more free 200 years ago. What’s next? Censors monitoring the travel and performance of my horse?

You people can have your brave new world. It is not for me.

Mitchell Heisman on April 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM

- Behind on your taxes———No Car use
- Too many tickets————-No Car use
- Don’t buy health insurance—No Car use
- Don’t re-register your car—No Car use
- Use too much gas————-No Car use

Get the picture???…

PatriotRider on April 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM

…and BTW…don’t think that this won’t at some point be able to be linked into OnStar…

Think Internet “Kill Switch” and apply it to cars…if the government wants to all of a sudden stop movement around the USA. One push of a button…

PatriotRider on April 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM

This, but no budget ?
Fourth Amend. problem as well.
In no way enhances safety. No IC clause support.
Automatically collects data in case it can be used against you.
This thing is BAD NEWS !

Jabberwock on April 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM

I will never buy a new vehicle again.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

I hate to say this. But you will have to. Think about the way you are forced to replace perfectly functional computers because of compatibility issues. Another example, I have a 1996 vehicle that the manufacturing of a critical parts has already been discontinued on. It was part of the electronic ignition. To make the vehicle operable I had to replace the throttle body, distributor etc. Cost ended up around $2 K. Unless you can manufacture the parts yourself you are screwed. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Bmore on April 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I suspect that this is an effort by the Senate to plow the road for a mileage tax.

Exactly. The government WILL know where you’re at at all times. The next black box will be very small, installed at birth, probably in the left arm.

If this doesn’t scare the bejessus our of you, you’re unconscience.

Portia46 on April 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I suspect that manufactures who sell “certified used vehicles” and warranty plans download this information regularly via the vehicles phone system. It tells them when your car needs servicing, emergency services, etc. But that is a private contractual relationship.

The problem is when government steps in to take the information without your permission.

BullShooterAsInElk on April 19, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Since we won’t be able to afford cars or gas soon, do they make Black Boxes in Size 12?

NoDonkey on April 19, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Maybe the word I’m looking for is “privacy”. Either way, this exponentially increasing high-tech anti-what’s-important-in-human-life nightmare is something I’ll pass on.

Mitchell Heisman on April 19, 2012 at 11:33 AM

The best part is these mandated boxes will be built into the cost of the car, so we get to pay to be enslaved by our betters.

This is definitely a side-affect of Obamacare. When government can mandate that you have to buy insurance in violation of the Constitution, government can mandate that you have to buy just about anything.

This does not surprise me. Expect our betters to shove more of this crap through before Obamacare is struck down.

crazy_legs on April 19, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Sounds to me like just another labor-intensive, incredibly costly government add-on highly adaptive to sales and use taxes and requiring the hiring of several thousand additional EPA inspectors. Also ambulance chasers can have a field day perusing and interpreting black box crash “data”.

MaiDee on April 19, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Half of this nation is lost. They care not for personal freedom afforded our citizenry-but are more concerned with tax rebates and living on the government teat.

Obama and his brain dead masses will engineer a state where the citizenry has no voice. Prepare for the worst.

PeaceAtAllCosts on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Yup, add more junk to make new cars even less affordable for the masses. Keep doing it and you will see Cubanesque jalopies in America or maybe even the comeback of the horse and buggy.

Or maybe keep electing Obama-types and we can get a new entitlement program created of free cars for all!

They should really mandate putting black boxes in the Chevy Volts, though. Owners’ lawyers would love ‘em for the eventual lawsuits that will occur against Government Motors.

AttaBoyLuther on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

t would record speed, direction, breaking activity, recent acceleration and so on. What if you got a big discount from your insurance company for having one? I don’t like the idea of government mandating it, don’t get me wrong, but if you could get a 20% discount from your insurer if you installed one, wouldja?

Akzed on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

No. My freedom is worth a tad more than a 20% discount.

katy the mean old lady on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

The paranoia runs deep at RomneyAir. Seems like every single advancement in technology scares you people.

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Way to concentrate on salvaging our economy Democrats.

Are you kidding me? No keystone pipeline, no budget in three years, and they have the time, money and lawyers to produce this giant crap sandwich.

Mind-boggling.

fogw on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

This is why I drive a 1970 Dodge Challenger. Aside from the aftermarket EFI, the car is stock. 16 Gauge Steel, built for a tall American, leather interior and best of all, I can fix ANYTHING on the car myself with a screwdriver.

This last is no small item. When something starts to break on her, I simply fix it. No computer, no “taking it to the dealer” for a diagnosis. For what a modern car costs for a tuneup, I could replace my entire suspension.

Also, since I built the engine with my own hands there is a deeper understanding of the car that most people will never have. If you are going to spend thousands on a car, then get one that you like and keep it for years. Mustang guys are like this as well.

In the winter I drive a truck and when it dies, I get another used one to drive till it dies, but the Challenger is Forever.

Bulletchaser on April 19, 2012 at 11:36 AM

The paranoia runs deep at RomneyAir. Seems like every single advancement in technology scares you people.

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Would you like dog with that?

tetriskid on April 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

How is this the fault of eeeeeeevil Democrats again, when Republicans control the House?

The MAP-21 bill is already notorious for giving the IRS the power to confiscate passports on suspicion of tax evasion without getting a judge involved or a suspect a chance to defend himself, and its presence as part of the transportation bill makes it a little easier to pass unnoticed through the House.

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Remember all those perfectly good old cars that were destroyed in the “Cash For Clunkers” program?

batterup on April 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM

I have a few older trucks. One runs just fine and the other is the exact mirror of it.. even the same paint color, which we use for parts. We are going to start with the engine too.

Unless you can manufacture the parts yourself you are screwed. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Bmore on April 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM

*shrugs* are they going to make shucks, napa and other auto parts stores go out of business? I doubt it. Besides, it isn’t like I don’t have enough vehicles. I have six of them… and they all run at the moment, and this does not include our “toys”.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Hmmmmm… Perhaps a very strong magnet, placed in close proximity to the EDR, would cause the information to be… Uhhhhh… Never mind…

Mothers Finest on April 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Too late! You’ve said too much. Stay where you are, the black helicopters are on the way.

Happy Nomad on April 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

There is no need to put black boxes in cars to create a mileage tax. In NY State and others, the yearly safety and emissions inspections are done by accessing the onboard computer which contains the mileage. Simply subtract last year’s number from this year’s and you have your data for tax computation.

xkaydet65 on April 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Here is my suggestion…if you don’t like you know who’s comments don’t engage him…eventually he will go away…

PatriotRider on April 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Ignore the troll for the remaidner of the thread.

I repeat…

Ignore the troll for the remaidner of the thread.

Bitter Clinger on April 19, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Wow, aside from this next horrible “bend over” mandate, I had no idea that — per the IRS — one was still guilty until proven innocent (an already notorious part of the bill that Ed pointed out).

Great — there really is no hope with such fools in charge for so many past and likely future decades …

ShainS on April 19, 2012 at 11:38 AM

They really do own us now, don’t they?

Have you bought any major appliances lately? They are pure crap. The repairman told me that the companies have to obey energy requirements so they throw anything together to pass inspection. I suspect this is a big reason why U.S. manufacturing no longer rules: it’s run by the government, just like in the old Soviet Union.

PattyJ on April 19, 2012 at 11:39 AM

The paranoia runs deep at RomneyAir. Seems like every single advancement in technology scares you people.

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

I’m worried the mandatory solar panels on my car roof will leave little room for the dog crate.

NoDonkey on April 19, 2012 at 11:39 AM

As an older umemployed retired person I will make out like a bandit on mileage use taxes. What! They are on top of what I pay at the pump! This is war!

Cindy Munford on April 19, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Portia46 Writes

“Exactly. The government WILL know where you’re at at all times. The next black box will be very small, installed at birth, probably in the left arm.”

Android and Apple smart phones know where you are every minute of the day. It is no stretch to see laws passed which allow the government to access the info anytime…for security reasons.

The mark of the beast-and we all capitulate for convenience.

PeaceAtAllCosts on April 19, 2012 at 11:39 AM


Hmmm.

==================================================================================
I see nothing about the device being defective and since they explicitly state you are the owner of the device,

what if you subject the sensor entry points to a high voltage test?
==========================================================================

huntingmoose on April 19, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Bitter Clinger on April 19, 2012 at 11:38 AM

remaidner=remainder

*Ugh*

Bitter Clinger on April 19, 2012 at 11:40 AM

I will never buy a new vehicle again.

Yes you will. Government mandated health care inevitably leads to government mandated Chevy Volt.

You will buy a new (green!) car or your property will be confiscated.

crazy_legs on April 19, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Yep, the measure lays the groundwork for a mileage tax.

We’ve tried bribing our misguided fellow citizens for decades. Now it’s time to just defeat them at the ballot box and tell them straight out that they can’t have their way.

J.E. Dyer on April 19, 2012 at 11:40 AM

I suspect that this is an effort by the Senate to plow the road for a mileage tax. With gasoline tax revenues expected to drop with the advent of electric and hybrid vehicles (a large assumption, by the way), Democrats have been looking for ways to recoup the lost revenue.

Chalk me up as someone who supports mandatory mileage taxes on all electric cars. Or are the owners of these cars not supposed to pay anything for the roads they’re driving on?

strictnein on April 19, 2012 at 11:40 AM

I don’t have enough vehicles. I have six of them… and they all run at the moment, and this does not include our “toys”.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Stereotype: 1. widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing

2. A person or thing that conforms to such an image

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:41 AM

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

The auto stores aren’t the ones doing the manufacturing.

Bmore on April 19, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Hmmm.

==================================================================================
I see nothing about the device being defective and since they explicitly state you are the owner of the device,

what if you subject the sensor entry points to a high voltage test?
==========================================================================

huntingmoose on April 19, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Yup.

katy the mean old lady on April 19, 2012 at 11:42 AM

I remember when vehicles didn’t need a brain to run.

The smell of the leaded gas, the twirk of vehicle of the rpm’s when you pressed down the accelerator, the fact you didn’t need some nerdy computer dude to tell you that your timing chain was not working correctly.. because you could feel it when you drove.

Ahhh good times.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Portia46 on April 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Would you say that you have an above average amount of tinfoil in your house? Do you find it fashionable?

strictnein on April 19, 2012 at 11:42 AM

It would record speed, direction, breaking activity, recent acceleration and so on. What if you got a big discount from your insurance company for having one? I don’t like the idea of government mandating it, don’t get me wrong, but if you could get a 20% discount from your insurer if you installed one, wouldja?
Akzed on April 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Oh yes, saving a few hundred dollars a year is totally worth giving up my freedom and letting the Feds spy on me.

/

jawkneemusic on April 19, 2012 at 11:42 AM

What is with these people? Why can’t they just leave us alone???

Cicero43 on April 19, 2012 at 11:43 AM

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:41 AM

WTF does your definition have to do with my old trucks?

Talk about stereotypes much angry? Are you calling me a hick? A red neck? A snow billy?

I call you a racist.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM

The great Willard Romney favored use taxes while governor. The more you use a govt service, the more you pay. Pretty simple concept.

Car owners who drive 15K miles a year pay more tax than those who drive 10K miles a year. What’s so tyrannical about this?

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM

Okay, here is something else to think about, fuel blends, think fuel blends that will not run on old technology. Its one of the reasons I went to diesel.

Bmore on April 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM

The paranoia runs deep at RomneyAir. Seems like every single advancement in technology scares you people.

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

EDR’s are far from a “advancement in technology”.
Been around for at least 10 years.
It does not scare me until someone dictates how the information is used.
I believe the proposed use of this technology is wrong.

Jabberwock on April 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

contrarian
(contrarians plural )A contrarian is a person who deliberately behaves in a way that is different from the people around them.

Also a comment producer.

Cindy Munford on April 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM

The paranoia runs deep at RomneyAir. Seems like every single advancement in technology scares you people.

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

…so let’s be DUMBER then this moby misfit and respond to it!…let all the readers who peek into Hot Air know that when they send someone over during open reg with a fishing pole…we gobble on the worms!

KOOLAID2 on April 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM

WTF does your definition have to do with my old trucks?

Talk about stereotypes much angry? Are you calling me a hick? A red neck? A snow billy?

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM

I didn’t call you anything. You made the assumption I meant red neck or hick. Why’s that?

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM

This is just plain old creepy. What next? A requirement for a biochip implant before you can buy or sell?

bitsy on April 19, 2012 at 11:46 AM

EDR’s are far from a “advancement in technology”.
Been around for at least 10 years.
It does not scare me until someone dictates how the information is used.
I believe the proposed use of this technology is wrong.

Jabberwock on April 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Fair enough.

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Its one of the reasons I went to diesel.

Bmore on April 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM

but the new diesel fuel doesn’t work with the diesel engines. It causes all sorts of problems. Ask Badger40. If you don’t use a special additive at times, you could be in a world of hurt due to…. algae.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:46 AM

I didn’t call you anything. You made the assumption I meant red neck or hick. Why’s that?

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Drop the act. Moby.

tetriskid on April 19, 2012 at 11:47 AM

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM

He’s going personal to try to bait a response from you. Don’t fall for it.

Bitter Clinger on April 19, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Car owners who drive 15K miles a year pay more tax than those who drive 10K miles a year. What’s so tyrannical about this?

angryed on April 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM

Not a problem. Health freaks who burn 2X the calories while staying super fit should pay more as well.

Jabberwock on April 19, 2012 at 11:48 AM

contrarian
(contrarians plural )A contrarian is a person who deliberately behaves in a way that is different from the people around them.

Also a comment producer.

Cindy Munford on April 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM

I will add to it :Doublespeak

Doublespeak is language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words.

upinak on April 19, 2012 at 11:48 AM

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