Orrin Hatch may just punch you in the mouth

posted at 10:46 am on April 14, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) has been under a lot of pressure from his own right flank this cycle, facing a serious primary challenge from people who think he’s too “moderate” for today’s Republican Party. FreedomWorks has dropped more than a half million dollars in attack ads trying to knock him out of the running, hoping to replace him with former state Sen. Dan Liljenquist. But at least he’s taking it with the calm, professional demeanor that you’d expect from a seasoned, veteran statesman.

Utah Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch is “doggone offended” by the activists and voters standing between him and re-election, describing them as “radical libertarians.”

“These people are not conservatives. They’re not Republicans.”

“They’re radical libertarians and I’m doggone offended by it,” he said.

“I despise these people,” Hatch added, “and I’m not the guy you come in and dump on without getting punched in the mouth.”

According to the linked report from The Daily Caller, though, these efforts may come to naught. Liljenquist is underperforming in the caucuses, and if Hatch can scrape together 60% he won’t even face a primary vote in June, instead just sailing on to the general election. And that could turn out to be a long term problem.

No matter how enthusiastic you may be about “purging the RINOs” from the system, it doesn’t always work. And when it fails, why should somebody like Hatch feel any loyalty whatsoever to the party leaders when it comes time for a close vote? Tick the guy off enough and you’ve got another Olympia Snowe on your hands. In a worst case scenario, just think of a situation where the GOP takes back enough seats to just barely regain control of the Senate this fall. And then Hatch suddenly decides he feels more like being an independent caucusing with the Democrats after getting kicked around by his own team in the primary.

But why should we worry about that? It’s not like it’s ever happened before, right?


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

Ha ha ha ha.

Hey, I overlooked your nutty faith. Now screw every good thing I ever said about you, Hatch. I hope you lose.

Mitchell Heisman on April 14, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Well, y’know, he’s right. Not about punching people in the mouth. But libertarianism is not conservatism. And this is one of the dangers of the tea party. As much as I support the tea party, it has had the unfortunate effect of leading people to believe that economic issues are the only thing that matters. And they’re not.

Shump on April 14, 2012 at 10:49 AM

No matter how enthusiastic you may be about “purging the RINOs” from the system, it doesn’t always work.

Lisa Murkowski agrees.

portlandon on April 14, 2012 at 10:50 AM

“I despise these people,” Hatch added, “and I’m not the guy you come in and dump on without getting punched in the mouth.”

Oooh. Me likey the Saucy Mormon. May his chutzpah be infectious.

:)

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on April 14, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Down the Hatch, Utah!

I’d like to see more voter imposed term limits, but that’s just me.

Fallon on April 14, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Hatch is pissed, heh.

Swerve22 on April 14, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Yeah … he looks like a badass … it’s clear that he’s kept himself in shape all these years – i’m terrified.

/s

HondaV65 on April 14, 2012 at 10:54 AM

I hope he does punch someone. Would be funny.

philoquin on April 14, 2012 at 10:54 AM

He’s almost as worked up as when he used to defend his BFF, Ted Kennedy.

RBMN on April 14, 2012 at 10:55 AM

I hear Team Romney is asking focus groups if Mitt should punch some liberal for insulting the wife.

Seth Halpern on April 14, 2012 at 10:56 AM

No matter how enthusiastic you may be about “purging the RINOs” from the system, it doesn’t always work.

Which is why you had damned well better be taking the long view. This won’t be over in 2012. It won’t be over in 2014 or 2016. It will take persistence and vigilance. It will take the realization that sometimes you have to take one step back in order to take two or more steps forward.

2012 is about ridding the country of outright socialism. Future elections will be about returning the country to its origins.

trapeze on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

But libertarianism is not conservatism. And this is one of the dangers of the tea party. As much as I support the tea party, it has had the unfortunate effect of leading people to believe that economic issues are the only thing that matters. And they’re not.

Shump on April 14, 2012 at 10:49 AM

This blurring of the lines is because Conservatives have more in common with libertarians than they do with “New & Improved Republican Moderate party”.

The Libertarians have little in common with the democrat/socialist party.

It’s a fusion for convenience and relevance.

I don’t say I agree with it.

portlandon on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

It’s way past time to rid the country of these elitist, arrogant pols. who think they are entitled to sit forever in the Senate and the House. Hatch’s sale by date has long expired and he is more stale than week old bread. Time to punch him out at the ballot box and get rid of his arrogant arse.

they lie on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Term limits.

aniptofar on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

No matter how enthusiastic you may be about “purging the RINOs” from the system, it doesn’t always work. And when it fails, why should somebody like Hatch feel any loyalty whatsoever to the party leaders when it comes time for a close vote? Tick the guy off enough and you’ve got another Olympia Snowe on your hands. In a worst case scenario, just think of a situation where the GOP takes back enough seats to just barely regain control of the Senate this fall. And then Hatch suddenly decides he feels more like being an independent caucusing with the Democrats after getting kicked around by his own team in the primary.

Excellent point.
The hate-everyone-who’s-not-perfect minions have done more harm than good. Just looking at the last few years, we would have more GOP senators today–probably a majority–& Tim Pawlenty would be our presidential candidate if not for them.

itsnotaboutme on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

It really doesn’t matter … at this very moment, foolhardy, but genuine conservatives, are sitting in their living rooms right now writing out checks to the NRSC.

They THINK they’re writing those checks to be used to elect grassroots Republicans who IDENTIFY with their principles.

Instead – John Cornyn will funnel that money to losers like Orin Hatch.

HondaV65 on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

And then Hatch suddenly decides he feels more like being an independent caucusing with the Democrats after getting kicked around by his own team in the primary

If Hatch, or anyone else would caucus with the other side simply because of a primary challenge (how dare anyone hold me accountable!) then that itself is just cause for him being primaried.

rbj on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

ROTFLOL! I’d be more scared of some of the gun nuts on the Dershowitz thread than I’d be of this butterball.

MelonCollie on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Tick the guy off enough and you’ve got another Olympia Snowe on your hands. In a worst case scenario, just think of a situation where the GOP takes back enough seats to just barely regain control of the Senate this fall. And then Hatch suddenly decides he feels more like being an independent caucusing with the Democrats after getting kicked around by his own team in the primary.

In other words, you’re saying he has no strong conservative principles. He’ll just take his ball and go home. That’s the kind of Republicans we need…

Aplombed on April 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Not worried about an Olympia Snowe or Jim Jeffords situation here. Hatch is ornery and arrogant, but he isn’t crazy. He knows he’s in Utah, not the northeast. Even if he’s guaranteed 6 years, then retirement, that’s 6 years of facing an electorate that would 75% hate him if he were to give control of the Senate to the Democrats.

Gingotts on April 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM

No more Kabuki theater! RINO season is open.

Speakup on April 14, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Well,DOGGONE IT! Senator, just quit reaching across the isle all the time like your brother John McCain…and you won’t have to punch anybody! We would like you to shake OUR hand more often, and not hear “Oh, that was the best we could do!” <—-I hear that more than "doggone it! lately!

KOOLAID2 on April 14, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Not worried about an Olympia Snowe or Jim Jeffords situation here. Gingotts on April 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Oddly enough, it was Snowe who tried to talk Jeffords out of switching to independent. She tried to get through how the switch would affect the GOP senate majority and committee chairmanships (including any chairmanships of hers, of course). Didn’t work, obviously.

Wethal on April 14, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Orrin Hatch voted NO on both Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan.

That’s good enough for me.

Mitoch55 on April 14, 2012 at 11:06 AM

It really boils down to what you want.

Do you want:

1) to elect Republicans for the sole purpose of electing Republicans?

or

2) to elect Republicans for the purpose of accomplishing something?

We’ve seen what happens when you do Number 1. (And it doesn’t vary much from electing democrats, just ins scope, not direction.)

Now some people are willing to give Number 2 a try. I think that’s called a REAL change.

jaydee_007 on April 14, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Utah Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch is “doggone offended” by the activists and voters standing between him and re-election, describing them as “radical libertarians.”
“These people are not conservatives. They’re not Republicans.”
“They’re radical libertarians and I’m doggone offended by it,” he said. “I despise these people,” Hatch added, “and I’m not the guy you come in and dump on without getting punched in the mouth.”

Thanks for the laugh!
Poor old Elder Orin is annoyed by real conservatives like me, eh?
ROTFLMAO
I consider that a compliment.
Thank you, Elder Orin!
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on April 14, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Forgive me, but when hasn’t hatch been Olympia Snow? He has been “reaching across the aisle” for so long that R he thinks he wears just looks like a D to me.

Noelie on April 14, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Here in Delaware they nominated, and accepted, Mike Castle as representative to the Republican National Convention.

We’re real happy about that.

patfish on April 14, 2012 at 11:11 AM

It’s a fusion for convenience and relevance.

I don’t say I agree with it.

portlandon on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Libertarians are about freedom, limited gov’t.
Where is the problem?

PaleoRider on April 14, 2012 at 11:11 AM

He has a right to his seat, dontcha know.

Akzed on April 14, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Tick the guy off enough and you’ve got another Olympia Snowe on your hands.

We are supposed to vote for Republican candidates out of fear for what they will do if we don’t show them enough love? It’s bad enough that we pay the blackmail to the Democrats and terrorists. We should at least have a haven from fear based decision making within the Republican Party, or else we should start a new party. It is through the primary process that we are attempting to salvage the Republican Party instead of going the new party route.

Buddahpundit on April 14, 2012 at 11:11 AM

. And then Hatch suddenly decides he feels more like being an independent caucusing with the Democrats after getting kicked around by his own team in the primary.

My guess is he won’t, because he said himself, where you quoted:

“These people are not conservatives. They’re not Republicans.”

“They’re radical libertarians and I’m doggone offended by it,” he said.

Why would Hatch punish republicans in his own party for people he doesn’t recognize as republicans in the first place, trying to primary him? That’s not logical.

Dr Evil on April 14, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Tick the guy off enough and you’ve got another Olympia Snowe on your hands. In a worst case scenario, just think of a situation where the GOP takes back enough seats to just barely regain control of the Senate this fall. And then Hatch suddenly decides he feels more like being an independent caucusing with the Democrats after getting kicked around by his own team in the primary.

In other words, you’re saying he has no strong conservative principles. He’ll just take his ball and go home. That’s the kind of Republicans we need…

Aplombed on April 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM

You & I both can think of hard core righties as well as lefties who switched sides.

itsnotaboutme on April 14, 2012 at 11:16 AM

No matter how enthusiastic you may be about “purging the RINOs” from the system, it doesn’t always work. And when it fails, why should somebody like Hatch feel any loyalty whatsoever to the party leaders when it comes time for a close vote? Tick the guy off enough and you’ve got another Olympia Snowe on your hands.

Jazz, your analysis completely misses the point. As Hatch correctly points out, it is not the Republican Party or its “leadership” that is trying to take him out:

“These people are not conservatives. They’re not Republicans.”
“They’re radical libertarians and I’m doggone offended by it,” he said.

If Hatch is campaigning as a “real” Republican and conservative, he has no reason to blame his own party for a primary challenge. By his own admission, he is being challenged by interlopers. If Hatch gets reelected, and then caucuses with the Democrats, it’s his fault, not the Tea Party’s.

The “radical libertarians” need to double and triple down. Who cares about a few embarassments like Christine O’Donnell? You win some and you lose some. Hatch and Snowe and their ilk have been doing what they are doing long before the Tea Party. Every one of these hacks that goes down is a victory. And if Hatch wins, then, like Romney, he should have to fight for it, every step of the way.

Mr. Arkadin on April 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Orrin Hatch is not a RINO for God’s sake. He is a dealmaker, yes, but the Senate needs a few of those.

Outlander on April 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Tick the guy off enough and you’ve got another Olympia Snowe on your hands.

Or, a Lisa Murkowski. But I would submit that Snowe’s allegiances are to her liberal constituency in a liberal state, unlike Murky.

Rovin on April 14, 2012 at 11:19 AM

And then Hatch suddenly decides he feels more like being an independent caucusing with the Democrats after getting kicked around by his own team in the primary.

Any Republican whom I can even imagine doing that is not worth my vote.

Akzed on April 14, 2012 at 11:19 AM

But libertarianism is not conservatism. And this is one of the dangers of the tea party. As much as I support the tea party, it has had the unfortunate effect of leading people to believe that economic issues are the only thing that matters. And they’re not.

Shump on April 14, 2012 at 10:49 AM

I’d argue Shump that in the current context of America it may not be the only thing that matters, but IMO is the most important debate of our time. We’re drowning in 16 trillion dollars of debt; the children that are born now have their lifetime payments in taxes already spent. So social issues concerning freedom of any sort, in my opinion, will matter if we leave our children bound by the slavery of debt. Please let’s not get into a discussion of who’s fault it is. Both sides of the aisle are guilty.

I’m not a Tea Party member, but those that are speak of three major themes; limited government, control of debt, faith in the constitution. While I would not ever expect liberals to abide by these, libertarians can certainly understand their importance.

Republicans? Depend on their stripes.

itsspideyman on April 14, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Sorry: will matter if we leave our children bound by the slavery of debt should have been won’t matter if we leave our children bound by the slavery of debt.

itsspideyman on April 14, 2012 at 11:21 AM

So Hatch is thinking about caucusing with the commie dems if we primary voters don’t back off and let him sail through to reelection? What am I or anyone else missing here that makes sense?

bgibbs1000 on April 14, 2012 at 11:22 AM

I’ve mixed feelings about this..

I remember Hatch as the strong GOP voice during the Reagan years, defending Ron when many a limp rino went running for cover, Hatch stood his ground. I remember his role in the Thomas confirmation hearings..

yet,..

He was BFF with Ted Kennnedy who never ever gave ground in exchange for his GOP “friends” votes.. he’d always knife them in the back and renege on his side.. Kennedy was a snake, and Hatch never figured that out.. Hatch always in the last few years, attempted to compromise by reaching for the middle, necessarily dragging the party left during Bush’s years.. and that was a disaster.

Hatch has simply stayed on too long.. way past any reasonable stretch in the Senate.

He was a good soldier for conservatism once, and I’m thankful for that..

but his time is over, and he seems to think the Senate seat is his personal property, and not the peoples any more…

That’s messed up..

It’s the PEOPLES seat Orrin.. you need to remember that.

mark81150 on April 14, 2012 at 11:22 AM

IIRC only Specter, Snowe, and Collins supported Obama’s stimulus out of both houses of Congress. And, only Cao supported Obamacare out of both houses…So, I don’t really understand why so many Teapartiers and self described conservatives are at war with the Republican party. It seems to me that our Republicans showed remarkable unity and have held the line on the most activist President and Congress in our history. Both the stimulus and Ocare ultimately passed as you know but they are both recognized as failures by most…I think we should stop castigating the so-called Republican establishment. They are not the problem…Our President, the democrat controlled Senate, and their media propagandists are the problems…

Nozzle on April 14, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Bring it, slimef**k. Your days are numbered, as are the days of all anti-liberty tyrants, sitting comfortably in their seats of power. The Tea Party will outlive your corruption.

MadisonConservative on April 14, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Petulant RINO about to go Nuclear…

Mr Lisa Murkowski is about to make his stage debut in the role of “Moderate Independent Mainstream Republican”.

He will vote against Republicans 80% of the time and take up part time work for the NYT, CNN, and MSNBC. A game of golf with President Loser has already been booked.

CorporatePiggy on April 14, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Orrin Hatch is not a RINO for God’s sake. He is a dealmaker, yes, but the Senate needs a few of those.

Outlander on April 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM

I was hoping that someone would point that out.

RightWay79 on April 14, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Idiocracry, Mormon style.

Hening on April 14, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Tick the guy off enough and you’ve got another Olympia Snowe on your hands.

So, you’re saying we should appease someone due to threat of emotional outbursts that could cause them to vote against their better judgment?

Really?

We might as well appease everyone that threatens our principles then, right?

ButterflyDragon on April 14, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Excellent point.
The hate-everyone-who’s-not-perfect minions have done more harm than good. Just looking at the last few years, we would have more GOP senators today–probably a majority–& Tim Pawlenty would be our presidential candidate if not for them.

itsnotaboutme on April 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

And exactly -NOTHING- would be done or even mentioned about the looming debt crisis, since the profiles in cowardice idiots you mention would be hiding under their Congressional desks and Pawlenty would collapse at the drop of a straw poll.

Thanks for Obama!

ebrown2 on April 14, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Orrin Hatch may just punch you in the mouth

Greatest headline ever.

Myron Falwell on April 14, 2012 at 11:28 AM

As much as I hate to say this. Its time to look at term limits.

Bmore on April 14, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Hopefully, instead running to the left in response to this challenge, he’ll tack more to the right. After all, it’s why he’s being challenged.

moc23 on April 14, 2012 at 11:30 AM

No matter how enthusiastic you may be about “purging the RINOs” from the system, it doesn’t always work. And when it fails, why should somebody like Hatch feel any loyalty whatsoever to the party leaders when it comes time for a close vote?

Candidates have to convince the electorate to install that candidate in “the game.” A candidate’s discomfort at being put through his paces by voters who demand that he prove his credentials is a completely separate issue from that candidate’s loyalty to party leadership. Getting pissy with party leadership because the electorate wants some assurance of a candidate’s ideological loyalty makes no sense. Given the amount of campaign assistance that candidates receive from their respective parties, someone like Hatch should feel honor-bound to support his party leadership.

Jazz on April 14, 2012 at 11:31 AM

I dont think anybody ever intended to get rid of Snowy. For a Republican from Maine she was okay, not great, but okay.

But we’re talking Utah here, for heavens sake. We should get conservatives from there, so firebreathing that they have to use fire blankets to blow their noses. But instead we got the ol’ unburied Hatchet.

Valkyriepundit on April 14, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Has hatch ever said he’s likely to punch a dem? If he had, he probably wouldn’t have to be worrying about a primary challenge right now. I guess he only wants to punch people who’s team he’s supposed to be on. I caucused against him in Ut, glad I did too, and I didn’t hear him taking tuff like this before the caucuses. It was all “yeah I’m with the tea party, and I got big connections etc”. What AC dirty weasel. Id love to see him get flushed down the public toilets of history like the big corn filled turd that he is. I’ll be working double time now to ensure that the waste disposal systems are working here in Utah this fall.

Swerve22 on April 14, 2012 at 11:31 AM

If he’s going to start punching out radical libertarians, does he practice by hitting portraits of the Founding Fathers?

ebrown2 on April 14, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Getting rid of Orrin Hatch isn’t high on my list of priorities.

Curtiss on April 14, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Term Limits are an interesting debate.

All things being equal, term limits actually take power away from the people.

But, of course, we don’t operate in a vacuum and there are structural facts that make our process less than equitable.

My belief is that fixing those structural problems would be a better tack to take than seeking term limits.

RightWay79 on April 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM

I guess he didn’t learn the lesson from when we sent that till Bennett packing in 2010.

Swerve22 on April 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM

You know, if these idiots would have fought the democrats as strongly as they fight their base the country wouldn’t be in the position it is in now.

Corsair on April 14, 2012 at 11:34 AM

So if in the last election they used the logic that people need to leave poor Hatch alone because he has been there all these years then they wouldn’t have Lee in there now and I don’t know about you but I think he has been an improvement over Bennett. Besides, I didn’t think that was Hatch’s personal seat to keep.

bbinfl on April 14, 2012 at 11:37 AM

I get why Hatch is pissed off. Guy carries a 89.77 lifetime rating from the ACU, yet idiots want to put their purity BS on him and somehow an almost 90 rating just isn’t good enough. Which these idiots would realize that if they try to fill the congress with their “pure” brethren, the democrats will control Congress.

Zaggs on April 14, 2012 at 11:37 AM

There really is no reason to run a RINO in UT. This isn’t Mass. where a Scott Brown is probably your best possible option. UT is a deep red state and can do better than Brother Hatch.

CorporatePiggy on April 14, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Orrin Hatch is wrong. The GOP was not founded on social conservatism, that is a recent thing that happened when the social cons left the Democratic Party and went to the GOP.

Western state Republicans were not that much different than libertarians, both had more of a live and let live idea, which is not at all what social conservatives believe in.

A lot of social conservatives pretend that their agenda is what the GOP is and has always been about, thats why they call anyone who is one of them, a RINO. That somehow if you are for small government, and less spending, that you are not a real Republican then.

I am a bit hesitant to had over the keys of the GOP to the social cons, after all they gave us Jimmy Carter.

firepilot on April 14, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Poor old Elder Orin is annoyed by real conservatives like me, eh?
ROTFLMAO
I consider that a compliment.
Thank you, Elder Orin!
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on April 14, 2012 at 11:07 AM

uh guy…

Sorry to disagree, but it’s not a title any one of us gets to own.. since it’s subjective.

I’m very much a conservative, but by no means a libertarian… They get my support on fiscal issues, that’s all.

But libertarians go way off the rails on foreign policy, on cultural issues, issues where libertarians are more like progressives than republicans. I believe as Reagan did, libertarians have something to offer, but they shouldn’t lead the party…

They are one facet of conservatism, not the entire package.

I could claim that I’m the real conservative too.. but again, being subjective, more than a few would disagree.

mark81150 on April 14, 2012 at 11:39 AM

RightWay79 on April 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM

The problem is that the system is framed to benefit the incumbent. I don’t think you will ever fix this without term limits. And this includes local politics.

Corsair on April 14, 2012 at 11:40 AM

I could claim that I’m the real conservative too.. but again, being subjective, more than a few would disagree.

mark81150 on April 14, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Is “paleocon” more palatable?
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on April 14, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Mallon was right.

MeatHeadinCA on April 14, 2012 at 11:42 AM

But libertarians go way off the rails on foreign policy, on cultural issues, issues where libertarians are more like progressives than republicans

That’s not true a Libertarian is the opposite of a Statist.

Dr Evil on April 14, 2012 at 11:43 AM

The libertarian swipe pisses me off a bit. Libertarians are just as important as so-cons… and both are more important than old-school establishment republicans.

Book on April 14, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Malkin dang autocorrect

MeatHeadinCA on April 14, 2012 at 11:44 AM

Orrin Hatch is not a RINO for God’s sake. He is a dealmaker, yes, but the Senate needs a few of those.

Outlander on April 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM

I was hoping that someone would point that out.

RightWay79 on April 14, 2012 at 11:26 AM

You people are nuts defending these compromisers. What have we gotten for Republicans acting like Democrats under Bush and so many others? Now we’re going to get another such Republican with Romney. You don’t make deals with the enemy, if they truly are your enemy. Orrin Hatch speaks for compromising, back-stabbing Republicans that are too many in number.

rickv404 on April 14, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Forget term limits.

Senators should be selected by the state legislatures, as the founding fathers had it. Popular elections for the job is a progressive idea, and only advances progressive goals.

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 11:47 AM

But libertarians go way off the rails on foreign policy, on cultural issues, issues where libertarians are more like progressives than republicans

No, its just that many do not see a need for the federal government being a bully pulput to tell us how to live. Social Conservatives and Social Liberals however, both think that federal government should be doing that, in the name of values.

I do not get how social conservatives can be so simplistic in their thinking. Its like if you are not one of them, then you are a social liberal. But i do not want either side tell me how to live my life, I do a good enough job so far.

The libertarian swipe pisses me off a bit. Libertarians are just as important as so-cons… and both are more important than old-school establishment republicans.

Book

Live and Let Live libertarianism, is closer to what the Republican Party has been about historically, than this idea that the GOP needs to be an adjunct of the local Baptist church. For a very long time, social conservatives were a major bloc of the Democratic Party.

firepilot on April 14, 2012 at 11:48 AM

And when it fails, why should somebody like Hatch feel any loyalty whatsoever to the party leaders when it comes time for a close vote?

In other words,

“When you strike at a king, you must kill him”

irishspy on April 14, 2012 at 11:48 AM

You people are nuts defending these compromisers.
rickv404 on April 14, 2012 at 11:45 AM

I just think its kind of silly to go after someone like Orrin Hatch (of all people).

Some of his votes were not what I (as a Conservative) would have wanted.

But most of his votes were very good.

His over-reaction to a potential primary challenge does not help him. But, the stupid name-calling I am seeing here in these comments does not help those who suddenly hate Hatch (because they’ve been told he’s not a pure conservative).

RightWay79 on April 14, 2012 at 11:49 AM

And then Hatch suddenly decides he feels more like being an independent caucusing with the Democrats after getting kicked around by his own team in the primary.

There’s a faction of the party that is doing real damage to Republicans and enabling Democrats. You can generally recognize them by the words “I’m a ‘conservative’, not a Republican” or some such drivel. In their seeming desire to move the party to the right, they end up moving it to the left.

Most Americans are not far right or far left. They aren’t “far” anything. Most Americans are center right. They want their tax dollars spent responsibly, they want people to act with self-responsibility, they generally want to be left alone on social issues and done want either social agenda shoved down their throats, and generally want the federal government to keeps its nose out of their bedroom and is fingers out of their wallets.

The root of the problem is twofold. 1: We have a full time Congress that must go about creating problems to “solve” to justify their existence. 2: A Senate that is no longer responsible to the state governments. Three things would solve most of the problems:

1. Eliminate all Congressional pensions.
2. Return the House to a part-time legislature.
3. Return the Senate to the house of the state governments.

That would fix a lot of the problems we face as a nation.

crosspatch on April 14, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Orrin Hatch is wrong. The GOP was not founded on social conservatism, that is a recent thing that happened when the social cons left the Democratic Party and went to the GOP.

Western state Republicans were not that much different than libertarians, both had more of a live and let live idea, which is not at all what social conservatives believe in.

A lot of social conservatives pretend that their agenda is what the GOP is and has always been about, thats why they call anyone who is one of them, a RINO. That somehow if you are for small government, and less spending, that you are not a real Republican then.

I am a bit hesitant to had over the keys of the GOP to the social cons, after all they gave us Jimmy Carter.

firepilot on April 14, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Oh really?

were you even alive then?

The religious right wasn’t even considered a national force until Ronald Reagan courted us during the early 80′s.. we didn’t elect Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford did with his fumbling campaign, and the MSM rage over his Nixon pardon..

We gave the country Carter?

that’s so far past loony you’d have to open a new wing at the Carter presidential library just to hold it.

You don’t remember how savage the democrats were about the religious right?.. remember none of that? The media practically declared democray dead when Reagan built his coalition with us as a part.

We gave the country Reagan, along with all the other rational republican voters.. your belief that Carter was our gift is an outrageous smear.

You want to hate the religious right/social conservatives,… bring it on.. don’t make stuff up to do it.

mark81150 on April 14, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Oh, for cryin’ out loud. I admire Utah for evicting Sen. Bob Bennet in the last cycle. And Orin Hatch needs to go. But comparing him to Olympia Snowe and Arlen Freaking Specter? C’mon, that’s a little low, don’t you think?

Orin’s not all that conservative but neither is he vindictive. If he wins he’ll just go on serving his moderate constituency in Salt Lake City while talking a conservative game to placate the rest of the state. Same ol’ same ol’. But he’s not going to go “Specter” on his constituents.

rogaineguy on April 14, 2012 at 11:54 AM

You want to hate the religious right/social conservatives,… bring it on.. don’t make stuff up to do it.

mark81150 on April 14, 2012 at 11:54 AM

He also conveniently forgets that the republican party was the minority party – for forty years – before socal cons came along.

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Orrin Hatch may just punch you in the mouth

Then he’ll scrape himself up off of the floor and try it again.

Rio Linda Refugee on April 14, 2012 at 12:01 PM

I heard Hatch likes to war on women in his spare time…that’s no good.

DHChron on April 14, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Punching a woman in the mouth isn’t the same as punching a man in the mouth.

DHChron on April 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Is “paleocon” more palatable?
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on April 14, 2012 at 11:42 AM

W e l l ……..

Yeah.

Curtiss on April 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Orrin Hatch is wrong. The GOP was not founded on social conservatism, that is a recent thing that happened when the social cons left the Democratic Party and went to the GOP.

I am completely a state’s rights girl, but this is laughable. The Republican party was founded to fight a social issue: slavery. Of course, slavery is as social issue as abortion is.

melle1228 on April 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Orrin Hatch has an ugly case of Santorum’s Disease. He hates small government Republicans – you know, that libertarian wing of the party that actually believes in the Constitution and doesn’t just pay lip service to those who do to get votes.

DRayRaven on April 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM

i don’t think the comparison to Jumping Jim is at all apt. Jeffords was a liberal guy from a very liberal state (his successor was the socialist Bernie S.)

And some of the radical libertarians are a little nuts (but not a nuts as the radial left). UT did a great job in getting Mike Lee. But let’s be careful not too get overconfident and get a repeat of some of the sadder stories of 2010

r keller on April 14, 2012 at 12:05 PM

The three words that best sum up what Congressmen think of the people who pay their salaries?

…Rabid, mindless hatred.

I think most Republican politicians don’t feel a lot differently than the more blatant Communists do; they’re just a little bit better at hiding it.

Try to look at it from their point of view: if all Americans were brainless sheep who never complained about anything and gratefully took whatever the government decided to hand us in return, their jobs would be SO much easier.

logis on April 14, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Orrin Grant Hatch (1934-03-22) March 22, 1934 (age 78)

That means he came of age around 1955. So who else is tired of the country be run by geriatrics who can’t adapt to changing public political trends- like the TEA party movement? Orrin Hatch is well past the age of federal retirement (65). The U.S. Senate is Calcified. Has anyone taken a look at these people’s ages? There are two Democrat Senators serving from and Hawaii, and one from New Jersey that are in their late 80s. Daniel Inouye (D) age is 87 years (September 7, 1924)Hawaii. and the other one Daniel Kahikina Akaka (D) (1924-09-11) September 11, 1924 (age 87) Honolulu, Hawaii, is retiring.

That means they came of age in the 1940s….This is the year of our lord 2012 perhaps if we want people to solve today’s problems instead of looking to FDR’s model for answers to 21st century issues, we need people from a later generation, who have some kind of clue the mood of the American electorate in this year 2012.

Obviously Orrin Hatch is proving he’s not going to behave gracefully in his twilight years.

Dr Evil on April 14, 2012 at 12:06 PM

Live and Let Live libertarianism, is closer to what the Republican Party has been about historically, than this idea that the GOP needs to be an adjunct of the local Baptist church. For a very long time, social conservatives were a major bloc of the Democratic Party.

firepilot on April 14, 2012 at 11:48 AM

oh… quite the anti-religious bigot are we?

That’s a false narrative from the start, your beef is that we have a voice in the party at all,

because you know what? I can’t remember any let’s make the party members ALL go to church wether they want to or not initiatives…

can you?

Oh the grumpy guy hates anyone mentioning religion…. so suddenly we’re the Taliban?

Look, I’m one of the biggest boosters of the social conservative movement out there, and I haven’t been to church in 20 years.. I am a believer, do pray regularly and am sick to death of some people who think having anyone in the party who even mentions their faith is some kind of great evil which must be stomped out.

Nobody,… absolutely nobody is trying to force you to go to church..

that clear enough?

You have issues with somebody over the church, that’s your problem.. but the narrative you want to build here is false.

mark81150 on April 14, 2012 at 12:07 PM

The sad thing is as Zero has scandal after scandal, some could be used as impeachment material, the Republican reps have done nothing. Don’t tell me their powerless! They sit back and think just because there Republicans we will vote for them, well I say * poop or get off the pot *. Just because your supposedly from the right doesn’t mean we will vote for you, change you’re direction or we will replace you……… fools……..

angrymike on April 14, 2012 at 12:08 PM

But most of his votes were very good.

His over-reaction to a potential primary challenge does not help him. But, the stupid name-calling I am seeing here in these comments does not help those who suddenly hate Hatch (because they’ve been told he’s not a pure conservative).

RightWay79 on April 14, 2012 at 11:49 AM

His over-reaction is precisely the problem here. If he was proud and confident of his full record he would relish the challenge in order to shine the light on his triumphs and explain his not-so-stellar votes. All sitting politicians should be challenged every election cycle and the fact they are not just points to the laziness of the electorate. We should demand that politicians explain themselves at all times and most assuredly during elections.

Rio Linda Refugee on April 14, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Orrin Hatch may just punch you in the mouth

Pathetic Orrin!!

A lot of people had the same sentiment about YOU as YOU cavorted, and mealy-mouthed around legislatively with Ted Kennedy!!

It’s called PAYBACK !!

BigSven on April 14, 2012 at 12:09 PM

BTW, those of you bagging on social conservatives consider this: the rise of the social conservative was in reaction to liberal movement in the courts.

melle1228 on April 14, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Look, I’m one of the biggest boosters of the social conservative movement out there, and I haven’t been to church in 20 years.. I am a believer, do pray regularly and am sick to death of some people who think having anyone in the party who even mentions their faith is some kind of great evil which must be stomped out.

I agree, but I also can give you various reasons why I don’t support gay marriage and abortion WITHOUT using religion. Let’s be honest those are the two issues we are talking about here.

melle1228 on April 14, 2012 at 12:12 PM

I’ll give you a Libertarian flogging Hatch…a knuckle-tarian sammich and it’s coming full speed.

DHChron on April 14, 2012 at 12:13 PM

He also conveniently forgets that the republican party was the minority party – for forty years – before socal cons came along.

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 11:58 AM

True.. and the religious right did not come out of the democrat party,.. not even they claim that.. our people were from the ranks of the never voted before, because nobody listens to us ranks.. the social con movement in the beginning was made almost entirely of the apathetic nonvoters,.. many of who are still out there.

His is a moby argument,.. the same smear the democrats use to claim all the racists ran to join the GOP after the 64 civil rights act.. a stupid argument easily refuted by the fact… why would they join us.. since we voted in a much higher percentage for the civil rights act, than any of the democrats did.

fact..

His entire narrative is false.

mark81150 on April 14, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Orrin Hatch has an ugly case of Santorum’s Disease. He hates small government Republicans – you know, that libertarian wing of the party that actually believes in the Constitution and doesn’t just pay lip service to those who do to get votes.

DRayRaven on April 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Santorum wanted to go back to the 1950s before the radical 60s changed this country forever. But unfortunately we can’t turn back any clocks to nostalgic good old days -that train left the station along time ago.

The problem with both parties is that they look backwards not forwards. Obama keeps referencing the Roosevelts’ and Lincoln for his guide to governing. Really? This is the best statecraft these tools can practice in this day and age? This is why they hover at 10% approval rating. Then when you basically tell one of them to get with the program, they get ugly like Hatch: “I despise these people” Your constituents? Really? So Hatch didn’t learn anything from what happened to Arlen Specter? I guess it’s true you can’t teach an OLD dog new tricks.

At least when Bill Clinton was president he talked about building a bridge to the future. Hatch doesn’t want to use that bridge, in fact he wants it burned down so none of us can cross it either.

Donald Trump is right, we got some lame people running the show, and because of them China is eating our lunch, and laughing at us at the same time. We are living in a digital world, but the U.S. Senate is stuck telling time using analog technology.

Dr Evil on April 14, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Yeah. Hatch shoots his mouth off. Always has. He votes the right way most of the time, but some of these senators are just living on another planet. That said, I’m not sure trying to bust Hatch’s chops is good strategy this year.

Sure, mount a primary challenge in Utah. Go for it. But come November, if a weakened Hatch or a Republican newbie can’t beat a Democrat, you won’t be heroes to anyone but your mamas, and maybe not even them.

J.E. Dyer on April 14, 2012 at 12:19 PM

I don’t know what to think about this, but I think Orrin Hatch has a very cool name.

bridgetown on April 14, 2012 at 12:20 PM

No matter how enthusiastic you may be about “purging the RINOs” from the system, it doesn’t always work.

I think what you actually mean is that it is not always SUCCESSFUL.

RINO political worldviews don’t work. True conservative ones do.

dominigan on April 14, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3