Congresswoman lets the air out of the inflated student loan industry, says there’s no reason for it

posted at 9:01 pm on April 14, 2012 by Tina Korbe

In a radio interview today, North Carolina Republican Rep. Virginia Foxx recounted the way she worked her way through college and said “there’s no reason” for students to graduate with $80,000 or $200,000 in student-loan debt.

ThinkProgress flagged the interview as though it somehow reflected poorly on Foxx, but I really fail to see how she’s not offering a hopeful message. She’s essentially just saying, “Hey kids, you don’t have to take on the crushing burden of student-loan debt! You have options.” Who doesn’t want to hear that?

True, college tuition is higher than ever — but that’s largely because the government pumps so much money into higher education, through loans and other programs. Hate to break it to future college students, but college tuition prices are likely to continue to go up. Through Obamacare, the administration completely took over the student loan industry. That’s a recipe for the creation of the same kind of bubble that eventually burst into the housing crisis.

Admittedly, it takes a delayed-gratification mindset to work through school. Alternatively, it might take humility to choose a school you can afford over the dream school you can’t afford. It’ll be worth it, though, when you graduate debt-free or with a debt you’ll actually be able to repay.

Occasionally, you’ll hear a person talk about student-loan debt as though the borrower had no choice but to take out the loan. Maybe life didn’t turn out the way the borrower expected. Maybe he entered the workforce when the economy was poor and doesn’t have a job with the kind of salary he expected. Those circumstances cause the borrower to look back on the decision he made to take out the loan and to try to avoid responsibility for it. Just because he thought he’d be able to pay it off when he took it out and now finds it’s not as easy as he thought, though, doesn’t mean he still didn’t decide to take out the loan. When you take out a loan, you are responsible to pay it back. That is the nature of a loan.

Nothing is more empowering in life than the realization that you can take responsibility for your own decisions — and change your decisions in the future if you don’t like the consequences of the decisions you’ve made up to this point! Why don’t liberals want individuals to experience that kind of liberation and empowerment?


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Typo on the last sentence there Tina.
:)

Electrongod on April 14, 2012 at 9:04 PM

Virginia Foxx is a warrior. She always has all the right pigs squealing.

SouthernGent on April 14, 2012 at 9:05 PM

Hate to break it to future college students, but college tuition prices are likely to continue to go up.

I don’t think so this is the next bubble that’s getting ready to burst and hit our economy again.

Dr Evil on April 14, 2012 at 9:06 PM

I agree in principle, but she’s only spanking half the perps. Not only is NO ONE forcing students to take out loans on useless liberal arts degrees, just as no one is making their creditors offer such loans to the unqualified. Misconduct by both the producers (banks/unis) and consumers (students) is facilitated by governmental promises. In a too big too fail bailout culture the only solution is to make such debt dischargeable through bankruptcy and let the lenders eat their losses.

abobo on April 14, 2012 at 9:08 PM

Why don’t students get financial education in High School. They don’t teach about family budgeting, car loans, home loans, student loans. Why in all the uproar over the home lending meltdown did we not hear for more education on finances at the public school level?

I was told in one state they took out family budgeting, because they didn’t want to offend kids of single parents. I don’t think that is the reason, you keep kids in debt and you keep them in control.

earlgrey133 on April 14, 2012 at 9:10 PM

I don’t think so this is the next bubble that’s getting ready to burst and hit our economy again.

Dr Evil on April 14, 2012 at 9:06 PM

Absolutely. Academia as an investment has been plagues with diminishing returns ever since loans started getting subsidized. It is MY Children that are harmed by all this, they grow up in a world in which their nation isn’t competitive, education doesn’t provide economic mobility, and marketable skills will be the protected province of unionized guilds.

abobo on April 14, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Without government “assistance”, college educations would be much more affordable. All these loans simply enable them jacking up the pay and benefits for the democrats’ political cronies in academia.

crosspatch on April 14, 2012 at 9:11 PM

I’m 42 and paying off student loans for a degree I received just under four years ago. I didn’t have to go back to school or take on debt, but I chose to so that I could make a career move.

It worked; I have no problem repaying loans which I voluntarily took. No one should.

madmonkphotog on April 14, 2012 at 9:17 PM

WE are sorely missing 500 or so more ladies like this in CONGRESS! Instead we have corruptocrats selling legislation to those that fund their campaign accounts.

Harry REID just took millions from a Solar Co. in exchange for 1.5 billion in loan guarantees.

AND, nothing happens!

Obamatrix on April 14, 2012 at 9:18 PM

I’d really like to see the question that preceded it which of course Think Progress leaves out.

Zaggs on April 14, 2012 at 9:24 PM

I worked my way through college working two jobs. I did it in four years. I also paid 100% of my living expenses, including rent. It isn’t easy, but it can be done.

ladyingray on April 14, 2012 at 9:27 PM

Gotta love this Foxxy Lady. Cue Hendrix . . .

TXUS on April 14, 2012 at 9:29 PM

That’s PRECISELY how we had to do it. and FAMILIES have the responsibility to SAVE FOR THEIR KID’S COLLEGE- which is what we did- as a family. My son left college with ZERO debt and has saved HALF his salary since entering the work force. Of course that requires LIVING BELOW YOUR MEANS. All concepts being lost that are destroying this country. Our government’s spending problems have become ingrained in way too many individuals- pretty much the majority. And that’s a problem WITH US!

michaelo on April 14, 2012 at 9:32 PM

As out of touch with reality as ever.

mythicknight on April 14, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Why isn’t Dear Leader bashing universities etc for their money grubbing oppression of poor students?

Dingbat63 on April 14, 2012 at 9:37 PM

We’re looking at schools for my daughter and it amazes me how they tout the number of students that receive financial aid. It’s like it’s a selling point.
“90% of our students receive some sort of financial aid. Come here.”

yongoro on April 14, 2012 at 9:45 PM

Is it really news when ThinkOpppression gets upset at someone speaking truth to power?

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground. Thomas Jefferson

Chip on April 14, 2012 at 9:51 PM

Hmmm…I don’t know. Few Republicans are adept at explaining the consequences of a massive managerial State on the costs of everything from education to health care. This was an opportunity to do so, instead the Congresswoman relied on the ole’ bootstrap trope, which is not a compelling argument to make outside of an audience that agrees with you already. I take her point, but those kinds of musings do less to persuade people to exercise other options than to inadvertently confirm the notion that Republicans do not care that the rising costs of college is putting higher education out of reach for most Americans. (Especially so soon after Rick Santorum’s comments about it being snobby to want everyone to go to college.)

Republicans need to develop a better response strategy to the impact of student debt than “When I was your age…” anecdotes.

Threshing Flora on April 14, 2012 at 9:51 PM

I worked through college and grad school and didn’t pay off my loans til I was nearly 35, and this is after going to a state school for undergrad. Of course this was some time ago, before a degree cost six figures, but it was still tough all those years I had to write a hard-earned check every month even though I wasn’t making a lot of money.

You know what? Sometimes life is a struggle. Get over it. So many of these kids today grew up entitled by their parents and now they want someone else (the government = you and me) to continue to take care of them. They want something for nothing and don’t want to accept the consequences of their actions. The college I want to go to is so expensive, wah, wah, wah.

Would I have liked to have money during my twenties to do some of the things my friends who were unburdened by college debt were able to enjoy? Sure. But that’s life and I don’t regret my decisions one bit: not the decisions to take out the loans I needed, not the decisions to work through school to minimize my eventual debt, not the decision to own up to my responsibilities and pay off every last cent even though it took me til my middle 30s.

Time for these brats to grow up and own up to their decisions.

redfoxbluestate on April 14, 2012 at 9:53 PM

and so begins the fake war on students….

Wagthatdog on April 14, 2012 at 9:55 PM

Well, here goes another anecdotal tale about someone who got along without student loans: my two older kids graduated without debt by going to JCs and a pretty good local state college here in SoCal. (My third son is in the USMC and will be using his G. I. Bill.)

Great, right?

..except, my oldest son married a Swedish girl with a $65,000 student loan debt.

Sometimes, ya can’t win.

:-D

(But she’s a hard worker and they’ll be paying it off, of course.)

The War Planner on April 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM

and so begins the fake war on students….

Wagthatdog on April 14, 2012 at 9:55 PM

Tell it to Occupy Wall Street protesters. They want their student loans forgiven, and free tuition for all. And if you disagree that makes you a 1%.

Dr Evil on April 14, 2012 at 10:02 PM

My biggest gripe with this whole thing, is that one of the reasons education has gotten so expensive, is because the government throws money at it. Be it through Pel Grants, GI Bills (don’t get me wrong I believe in the GI Bill), on any other number of programs. Since the government doesn’t have to account for were the money comes from, and with schools looking at government funding as a cash cow, nobody has bothered to keep the costs in check. Schools raise their tuitions, and the government just throws more money at it. The cost of school has been increasing far above the cost of inflation, mainly because neither group has to actually consider where the money comes from, and the fact the the government, in every thing it does, prevents actual market forces from coming to bear and distorts the market place.

uncommon sense on April 14, 2012 at 10:04 PM

uncommmon sense there has it exactly right.

There is only one way to ride the higher education train and that is through loans.

As long as they know you *can* get the money, that is what they will charge.

DavidM on April 14, 2012 at 10:07 PM

Without government “assistance”, college educations would be much more affordable. All these loans simply enable them jacking up the pay and benefits for the democrats’ political cronies in academia.

crosspatch on April 14, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Exactly. Get the feds out of it, and the prices will come crashing down.

What’s more, students will be asking questions like: “So, women’s studies program adviser, will I find employment if I get a women’s studies degree? I will? Could you show me some data on that? Maybe bring in 10 or 15 employers who are really looking for this kind of degree so I can talk to them? I mean, I am paying a lot of money for this, after all.”

Rational Thought on April 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

..except, my oldest son married a Swedish girl with a $65,000 student loan debt.
 
Sometimes, ya can’t win.
 
:-D
 
(But she’s a hard worker and they’ll be paying it off, of course.)
 
The War Planner on April 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM

 
Don’t fret. Love and accents have done worse.
 
And not to put too fine a point on it, but patience and forgiveness goes farther with Nordic women for some reason. They have our prayers and best wishes, and nothing will matter when you hold your beautiful grandbabies.

rogerb on April 14, 2012 at 10:10 PM

Rational Thought on April 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Exactly, when students see that not many companies have a huge hiring need for LGT studies or Medieval puppet mastery and such things, maybe students will take there degrees and debit more seriously. When people stop taking those courses, maybe the college staffs will look more closely at who is an instructor. The only thing right now is that while the gubbmint subsidizes tuition, nothing will every change. I remember reading somewhere that a school like Harvard has 48 history professors, and half of them are on paid sabbatical at any given time.

uncommon sense on April 14, 2012 at 10:16 PM

As out of touch with reality as ever.

mythickskull on April 14, 2012 at 9:33 PM

I’ve found it funny (in the funny-odd way) that whenever someone pushes for self-reliance, hard work, and just plain tenaciousness, there is a segment of society that excoriates that person for daring to suggest that people just might be able to reach within themselves and resolve their own problems.

Those same people who excoriate those pushing for self-reliance are the same ones who leap on a single anecdotal sob story about somebody with toenail fungus and advocate for a national program to subsidize everyone who has toenail fungus. … or tattoos, or …[insert list of apparently societally devastating maladies here].

AZfederalist on April 14, 2012 at 10:23 PM

“90% of our students receive some sort of financial aid. Come here.”

yongoro on April 14, 2012 at 9:45 PM

What I hear is: 90% of our students should be attending community college for their first two years.

Fallon on April 14, 2012 at 10:27 PM

I knew colleges were getting over on students but not how bad until I saw Stossel ‘s show this week. They’re building resort like dorms complete with jungle themed pools and spas and other extravagant amenities. To attract students they say. What the heck? Probably half the “tuition ” is going to nothing but pure fluff to feel better, yet wind up with a ridiculous debt.

AH_C on April 14, 2012 at 10:30 PM

I’m going for my business admin degree right now (undergrad) at a university with a good reputation that charges a third of what Ohio State University would charge (also local to me). I’ll end up about $55k in debt when all is said and done, but am also graduating next year with no consumer debt so I’ll be able to fork over big payments when the day comes.

I understand the necessity of loans – even with my low cost school, one credit hour costs as much as one paycheck after taxes/401k/insurance deductions. I wouldn’t be able to get through the degree program in a reasonable amount of time if it weren’t for student loans, but I also went into it knowing it would need paid back, and formulated a plan to pay off all my consumer debt so that come graduation, I could get those loans paid off ASAP.

tdpwells on April 14, 2012 at 10:34 PM

How the college education bubble will pop:

A major corporation will say that it no longer requires a college degree for entrance into an entry-level management training program.

Then . . . the dominoes start to fall.

Dextrous on April 14, 2012 at 10:35 PM

I’m finishing my 30th year teaching at a University.

I’ve watched students devolve over time.

There are exceptions, but for the most part they expect to be in college. They expect it to be as easy as high school. They expect you to always make exceptions and allowances instead of holding to standards.

I got through grad school with loans I paid, with work I did, from delivering pizza to working in the kitchen at the pizza parlor. With grants and scholarships I earned.

But today’s students, with some exceptions, expect it all handed to them. With remedial classes to help them because they don’t meet standards.

Yes, Fallon, they should have gone to community college or a trade school. But unfortunately, expectations were set that are not realistic.

ProfShadow on April 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Shoot… I’ve seen so many ‘people with a piece of paper that says they know something’ who don’t… I’ll make a guess that 20-30 years ago 20% of the 4 year grads were unprepared for the career they schooled for… Now I’d put it as high as 50%.
-
All the wrong reasons to go to college and a government loan do not equal a skill/talent and a decent paying job on the flip side. I can’t tell you how many recent Liberal Arts grads I’ve smiled at while saying ‘really, you’ll find something’…
-

RalphyBoy on April 14, 2012 at 10:41 PM

Why don’t students get financial education in High School.

earlgrey133 on April 14, 2012 at 9:10 PM

The teachers are Union members. Need I say more?

EdmundBurke247 on April 14, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Good news: Nobody’s forcing you to take out a loan.

YET.

Soon I expect that people will be required to take out a loan from a government owned bank, to buy an electric car from a government owned manufacturer.

LegendHasIt on April 14, 2012 at 10:47 PM

The jobs that I did to pay for my college: chicken cook, hardware store, digging holes for foundation repair, whopper maker are not available not, they are all taken by, shhhhhh, Illegals. Now, I don’t really know if they are illegals, but they are in the USA taking a job without speaking a word of English. I know they could be here on a work visa, oh, but I don’t think Mickey D’s applies for foreign workers. I am pretty sure that they are not naturalized, because you are supposed to be able to read and write English for that – and from the trouble that I have had trying to order a coffee – FAIL.

My little girl just turned 7, and she is starting to learn the meaning of “chores”, I think more of our kids should also. No chores, no spending money.

rgranger on April 14, 2012 at 10:55 PM

I’d like to see a REAL journalist somewhere do a comparison graph, the steep rise in teacher compensation and pensions, against the steep rise of college tuitions, against the steep rise of student debt, all compared to general inflation and other index cost changes. Put the horse before the cart, and the horses’ asses where they belong.

rayra on April 14, 2012 at 11:06 PM

Worked my way through school all the way, starting with High School and all the way through college – BA Accounting, grad school – MBA Finance – and Law School. Worked every conceivable job, my best paying ones then, working jackhammers in the early morning and waiting tables late at night, and then working my way up to running printing presses and mail machines for a publication owned by McGraw-Hill.

My intelligent but uneducated parents didn’t have the money to help very much in any of the above, and their absolute hate of getting a hand out or going into debt for anything drove me the same way. We all did our best to make sure I would get an education but the concept of going into debt for it was as foreign to us as the truth would be to Obama.

This entire mindset of entitlements or government loans, or anything coming from government as a “benefit” has destroyed, and will continue to destroy, the human spirit that has characterized our great country from its inception.

TXUS on April 14, 2012 at 11:07 PM

I fail to see how it’s a bad thing to have thousands more Gender Studies graduates or thousands more advance degrees in the Armenia Diaspora of Detroit as it relates to the Sudanese Dance Culture within Michigan’s Diverse Dialectic.

Kids, take out as much money as you need to educate yourself on the things that matter. A fashionable career in a Hollywood movie version of life awaits. Because PhD’s in Sudanese Dance always live in IKEA furnished huge flats in trendy areas of trendy cities.

Montana on April 14, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Another poorly written and not very detailed entry …another reason I just check in once in a while anymore.
Tina: Instead of just regurgitating things you have heard or think,why not have some NUMBERS?
I have been around HA a LONG time….since DAY ONE and seen some GREAT POSTS… I remember MM and Bryan which were AWESOME..
You have a LONG LONG LONG way to go…….do some RESEARCH..do some DETAIL.
I think everyone here wants to see you grow and succeed but sometimes you really seem to “mail it in” and as a new columnist, that is simply not good.

labwrs on April 14, 2012 at 11:30 PM

labwrs on April 14, 2012 at 11:30 PM

Your blog, btw, is STUPENDOUS.

tom daschle concerned on April 14, 2012 at 11:46 PM

Went to a State university and got an engineering BE degree.

Lived at home and rode a bike back and forth (i only lived a few miles from the school)

Worked a part-time job in a local restaurant, first as a busboy, then as a cook.

Paid my semester’s tuition in full and up front; parent’s helped me with books.

Total debt at day of graduation – $0.00

Worked my butt off, studied like mad when my friends were partying, delayed lots of gratification up front…..and what do I have to show for it -

1. An excellent professional career
2. A beautiful wife and two kids (with a 3rd on the way)
3. About to buy my first home

Moral of the story – Take control of your life, work hard, don’t expect anyone to give you any handouts and you’ll probably do fine.

Anti-moral of the story – Live an entitled life with a mentality that everyone owes you something and nothing is your fault then all you can expect is disappointment and grief….

powerpickle on April 14, 2012 at 11:53 PM

“Hey kids, you don’t have to take on the crushing burden of student-loan debt! You have options.” Who doesn’t want to hear that?

…Every liberal in the world, obviously.

Read their Bible: Every activity must be either mandatory or prohibited. Freedom is evil.

logis on April 14, 2012 at 11:58 PM

And I would add, that if the Universities in this country quit aggressively recruiting Chinese and Indian (et al) students, handing them assistantships, fellowships, grants, and scholarships – and gave these instead to meritorious Americans, there would probably be quite a bit less individual student debt as well.

Mr Galt on April 15, 2012 at 12:02 AM

Quit picking on Tina.
No one forcing you to click on her threads.

If you take issue with a particular statement, sure, giv’er hell.
But no need to be nasty about her overall abilities.

Yeah, I miss Bryan and Michelle a lot too… But you are welcome to go to their own sites and read them there.

LegendHasIt on April 15, 2012 at 12:13 AM

I love watching the liberal nutbags stomp their feet because they somehow think the taxpayers should be footing the bill for their education (education is of course a term used very loosely).

What started that backward and idiotic behavior is naturally their parents that took out student loans, went through college without a single intention of ever paying a penny back. Kids today see that as the way to get their free education thinking it’s ok to do it that way since the gov’t doesn’t try to collect on mom and dad’s huge loans.

Again I’ll toss this one out there. My sister in law works as a public employee in an appointed office in Florida. She did the exact thing, took out those massive student loans without any intention of paying them back. She’s a leftist progressive liberal socialist putz. Her husband would collect welfare if he could, but he’s too lazy to try. Instead he’s used his maximum unemployment (without looking for so much as a job scratching his sack) while biding his time to his retirement.

I can’t stand liberals, especially entitlement soaked liberals. Yeah, and she doesn’t think we pay enough taxes, but refuses to make that voluntary payment to the IRS / gift thing.

Color me so surprised.

Wolfmoon on April 15, 2012 at 12:22 AM

Another poorly written and not very detailed entry …another reason I just check in once in a while anymore.
Tina: Instead of just regurgitating things you have heard or think,why not have some NUMBERS?
I have been around HA a LONG time….since DAY ONE and seen some GREAT POSTS… I remember MM and Bryan which were AWESOME..
You have a LONG LONG LONG way to go…….do some RESEARCH..do some DETAIL.
I think everyone here wants to see you grow and succeed but sometimes you really seem to “mail it in” and as a new columnist, that is simply not good.

labwrs on April 14, 2012 at 11:30 PM

Sounds like someone got turned down to contribute to HotAir.

Instead of attacking the messenger, why don’t you just reply with your own thoughts?

Is it really necessary to bring it to this level?

Btw, don’t include me in your “I’m sure everyone here”…comment

Don’t presume to speak for anyone but yourself, respectfully.

ccrosby on April 15, 2012 at 12:27 AM

I am a current college student who has had to take out loans to attend my university.

Couple of points:

1) Tuition has skyrocketed over the last 10 years or so. So why Foxx thinks brining up her own personal story – one which no doubt occurred 30+ years ago when tuition was MUCH lower – as a reasonable comparison to today is beyond me. Out of touch much?

2) Tuition has continued to increase because the government has increasingly backed and increased the amount students can loan. However, generations before me have allowed the government to meddle in higher education, and *I* should have to make sacrifices? I would much rather the federal government not be in the student loan business at all (and consequently pay much lower tuition out of pocket) but this is not the reality of today. So why should I have to sacrifice MY opportunities? I realize taking out loans is (always) a risk, but it is a risk I should be able to make.

3) As somebody who has gotten excellent grades all his life (but who comes from a low income family) I would be unable to attend my top-tier university without federal loans. Some may say, “Well fine, if you can’t afford it on your own, go to community college then!” However, that line of reasoning is also flawed. Why should being able to attend a top school be contingent on one’s wealth? That is a society that inherently favors the rich (by only allowing the wealthy to attend the top universities, which tend to cost the most) — hardly an “opportunity society” if you ask my.

Congresswoman Foxx, you are extremely out of touch.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 12:42 AM

Tina makes us sound silly and heartless when she takes the stance she does on this issue.

Of course Foxx has no issue paying her student loans herself…when she went to school, she paid what $2000 for 4 yrs total? Try paying $1500 PER class. Take 18 credit hours, that’s $9k. Add technology fees and building fees and other mandatory fees, and at a CHEAP college, you’re paying $15000 a year easy. Now, try finding a part time job, but not too many hours as taking a full load means you’re going to need time to study, go to office hours every now and then, and work on projects outside of class time. You MIGHT, at min wage, be able to bring in $600 a month on a part time job working 20 hrs a week. Now, add rent, utilities, food, gas, car insurance, health insurance, etc. And you’re 600 is gone plus another, let’s say $500 in expenses. Wow, so now you have to either borrow around $16000 a year to pay for it all or pray you have parents that saved a lot (IF you have parents at all).

So, you’ll get scholarships. Great news. My college has a scholarship fund for students top award is $750 for a 4.0 gpa. From there you can qualify for $500 if you get a 3.7-3.9. Let’s say you win one of those coveted prizes…great, now all you need is $15,000 a year! So, you try outside scholarships…but you find you don’t qualify for most of them because you’re too old or you’re not straight out of high school. You end up getting very lucky and receive a total of $1000 in scholarships. Great! Now all you need is another $14,000 a year to pay for it all.

You can work full time during the summer, probably for min wage and perhaps bring in up to $3,000 which will pay for your meals for the summer (no meal plans), extra gas, and about half of your rent for next year. Now, you’re back to where you were. And I didn’t even mention books. You can buy used books, but still for 6 classes you’re going to be looking at least $500 per semester. Oh, gosh, next semester you have to take a lab which requires extra materials and a lab fee, another $300 you’ll need. And supplies…not a lot of money, but add on another $200 per year minimum for binders, paper, pens, extra materials, etc.

Where, pray tell, does a person taking a full load get $14,000 a year outside of borrowing it? You could go part time, hope to work full time and hope that without a degree you can make somewhere around $19000 a year, you bring home around $14000 after taxes and such, and great- so you can pay your own way, but college is gonna take around 12 years to finish.

Seriously, this issue is nowhere near black and white, and there aren’t a lot of kids out there (or adults) who have an extra $50k sitting around the house.

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 12:49 AM

Why should being able to attend a top school be contingent on one’s wealth?
stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 12:42 AM

Indeed.

Why should driving a Bently be contingent on one’s wealth?
Why should living in a palace be contingent on one’s wealth?

LegendHasIt on April 15, 2012 at 12:52 AM

True, college tuition is higher than ever — but that’s largely because the government pumps so much money into higher education, through loans and other programs.

Really?

I worked two jobs and had my own business and I had a scholarship and still needed to take out loans to finish my undergraduate program. That was over twenty years ago. It’s harder for students now I think.

I think there is a loan bubble but its the for profit schools which are contributing to this rather than non-profit schools. Dangling rewards for better jobs which don;t materialize.

lexhamfox on April 15, 2012 at 12:57 AM

“Why should driving a Bently be contingent on one’s wealth?
Why should living in a palace be contingent on one’s wealth?”

You are comparing a luxury car and palace to getting an EDUCATION (lol). I’m sorry, but believing that being able to acquire a top-notch education should be contingent on one’s wealth is the opposite of an opportunity-centered society. That is a society which inherently favors the well-connected and wealthy.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 12:57 AM

To show how idiotic the comparisons are- Foxx graduated UNC Chapel Hill in 1968 with a BA. In 1968, the average rate for tuition, room, board, and all fees was $1,245. Today, the same university costs are, on avg. $14,203

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_320.asp

That’s an increase of 1040%

It’s like comparing apples to space shuttle parts.

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:00 AM

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 12:57 AM

Only the wealthy should get quality education. The others should stick to community colleges with classes taught by anyone with a bachelor’s an only minimal experience in the subject taught (as I can attest to from experience).

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:02 AM

3) As somebody who has gotten excellent grades all his life (but who comes from a low income family) I would be unable to attend my top-tier university without federal loans. Some may say, “Well fine, if you can’t afford it on your own, go to community college then!” However, that line of reasoning is also flawed. Why should being able to attend a top school be contingent on one’s wealth? That is a society that inherently favors the rich (by only allowing the wealthy to attend the top universities, which tend to cost the most) — hardly an “opportunity society” if you ask my.

Congresswoman Foxx, you are extremely out of touch.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 12:42 AM

Do you believe the government should subsidize state of the art health care for low income families? When “EVERYONE” has the right opportunity to get the best of everything, best doesn’t mean what it used to.

Now, the good news is that you may not be getting a top tier education at a top tier institute … which means you won’t be missing out by taking the CC route. There are few situations where a “top tier” route seems like the only way to go.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:20 AM

It shore wud be nice if’n they teached the use uv logic in them thar top notch edjumacation places.

LegendHasIt on April 15, 2012 at 1:21 AM

Only the wealthy should get quality education. The others should stick to community colleges with classes taught by anyone with a bachelor’s an only minimal experience in the subject taught (as I can attest to from experience).

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:02 AM

Oh, please, many community colleges insist on Masters degrees for their instructors. And go to a “top tier” institute and get “taught” by an AI/AG/UGI/etc working on degrees.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:22 AM

I love Virginia Foxx.

BPinNC on April 15, 2012 at 1:25 AM

To show how idiotic the comparisons are- Foxx graduated UNC Chapel Hill in 1968 with a BA. In 1968, the average rate for tuition, room, board, and all fees was $1,245. Today, the same university costs are, on avg. $14,203

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_320.asp

That’s an increase of 1040%

It’s like comparing apples to space shuttle parts.

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:00 AM

Did you include her wages compared to today’s wages?

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:26 AM

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:22 AM

Sorry, but from my personal cc experience my first two years, I had ONE class taught by a guy with an MA (he was the director of the broad overall program). Most of my classes were taught by part time guys who came in once a week and had merely BAs, often times in fields unrelated to the classes I took. Often times had no idea how to teach the topic in question.

I followed CC with university, and the difference was astounding. The classes at CC were so easy, as long as you showed up you could get an A. You also got very little real experience and learned next to nothing, especially compared to university where you had to try hard at getting good grades. The two are worlds apart in my experience, and I’d assume it’s the same for many others as well.

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:29 AM

But, but, but, Obama likes it when young people go to college! Surely, we can’t do anything that would make them less likely to obey!

/

Mr. Prodigy on April 15, 2012 at 1:30 AM

In fact, I don’t think I ever had one full time teacher in CC. All of them were adjunct instructors (not professors). Most CC

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:31 AM

Education and health care is not a sound comparison. In a sense, health care is health care. If I need a life-saving surgery, I don’t get to pick whether or not the scalpel the surgeon uses is made out of gold or not. So what does “state-of the art health care” even mean? A life saving treatment is a life saving treatment whether or not it’s at an expensive private hospital or a community health clinic.

In contrast, education is very different. One can discern class sizes, quality of the overall student body and faculty (which contributes to a more intellectual stimulating environment), the amount of time it takes students to graduate, and student outcomes (i.e employment numbers). Newsflash: if you want to attend a university where the aforementioned are better, it is going to cost much more.

My point is these sorts of schools should not be exclusively for only those who can afford them. If a student is qualified to get into a top university (i.e. they have high test scores, a high GPA, and community involvement) they should be able attend with assistance. To say otherwise is to argue America should not be a meritocracy, but rather, an aristocracy.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 1:33 AM

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:26 AM

median increase is about 400% in income. compared to up to 2000% in tuition.

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Sorry, but from my personal cc experience my first two years, I had ONE class taught by a guy with an MA (he was the director of the broad overall program). Most of my classes were taught by part time guys who came in once a week and had merely BAs, often times in fields unrelated to the classes I took. Often times had no idea how to teach the topic in question.

I followed CC with university, and the difference was astounding. The classes at CC were so easy, as long as you showed up you could get an A. You also got very little real experience and learned next to nothing, especially compared to university where you had to try hard at getting good grades. The two are worlds apart in my experience, and I’d assume it’s the same for many others as well.

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:29 AM

In fact, I don’t think I ever had one full time teacher in CC. All of them were adjunct instructors (not professors). Most CC

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:31 AM

Not many people’s experiences at CC. Perhaps it says something about the coursework you had while at CC. Your anecdotal evidence is cancelled out by mine.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:35 AM

It shore wud be nice if’n they teached the use uv logic in them thar top notch edjumacation places.”

Says the individual who doesn’t engage the “faulty” logic, but rather, slings out insults? If ideas being presented are false, please do correct or engage them. To do otherwise only speaks to your intelligence.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 1:36 AM

median increase is about 400% in income. compared to up to 2000% in tuition.

TheBlueSite on April 15, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Now you say that!

It may not be the same, but Foxx’s point still sticks. Getting a job during college can greatly help reduce debt: a good thing!

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:36 AM

Meathead, that is blue’s entire point.

Tuition has gone up more than income at a ratio of 1:5. You should read his/her analysis of working part-time during school and summers above. Working part time (like Foxx did) hardly covers tuition like it did 30 years ago BECAUSE tuition has risen much more quickly than wages.

And while working does not hurt (neither blue nor I have said as much) it will NOT cover the remaining tuition for a lot of schools. Consequently, we have to take out loans if we want an education.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Education and health care is not a sound comparison.

In this context, they’re goods purchased, right?

In a sense, health care is health care.

Yes, clearly.

If I need a life-saving surgery, I don’t get to pick whether or not the scalpel the surgeon uses is made out of gold or not. So what does “state-of the art health care” even mean? A life saving treatment is a life saving treatment whether or not it’s at an expensive private hospital or a community health clinic.

It means there are hospitals with better equipment, technology, and (most importantly) better doctors.

In contrast, education is very different. One can discern class sizes, quality of the overall student body and faculty (which contributes to a more intellectual stimulating environment), the amount of time it takes students to graduate, and student outcomes (i.e employment numbers). Newsflash: if you want to attend a university where the aforementioned are better, it is going to cost much more.

Um, well, it depends. BTW, in my experience, many of my friends that paid the most for their UG edu went to tiny little LA colleges that charged for the “experience” more than the education.

My point is these sorts of schools should not be exclusively for only those who can afford them. If a student is qualified to get into a top university (i.e. they have high test scores, a high GPA, and community involvement) they should be able attend with assistance. To say otherwise is to argue America should not be a meritocracy, but rather, an aristocracy.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 1:33 AM

Many of “these types of schools” are private schools that have funds to let you go their for free (if they so choose). Write a letter. Ask them if you can be a freeloader.

And just a warning, nothing about education is fair, no matter how many people in the edu world argue for fairness.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:43 AM

Has the phrase “you get what you pay for” ever entered your ears?

It does, yet does not apply here. It applies to this situation because ivy league schools with the highest reputation demand higher tuition fees, yet these same ivy league colleges aren’t worth the mortar between the bricks of the buildings because they don’t actually teach much except how to be a good liberal sheep.

You’re better off paying less and getting less of a migraine having to listen to endless liberal pap. Shop wisely, go local where you can.

Wolfmoon on April 15, 2012 at 1:45 AM

And while working does not hurt (neither blue nor I have said as much) it will NOT cover the remaining tuition for a lot of schools. Consequently, we have to take out loans if we want an education.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Yes, and I had to take out a loan, too. In my opinion, it was a large loan; but I later found out that it’s relatively small. I have a better and higher education than many of my friends that spent more to go to universities of their choosing. I’m not going to pull a Dave Ramsey here and say you should absolutely not take out any loans; but listen to what’s being said here. Minimize debt. Try to get a job of some sort. Look for cheaper education. Try the CC route for 2 years. There are many, many ways to cut down on debt.

And, of course, only take out a loan if you’re really in this for the long haul.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:47 AM

Has the phrase “you get what you pay for” ever entered your ears?

It does, yet does not apply here. It applies to this situation because ivy league schools with the highest reputation demand higher tuition fees, yet these same ivy league colleges aren’t worth the mortar between the bricks of the buildings because they don’t actually teach much except how to be a good liberal sheep.

You’re better off paying less and getting less of a migraine having to listen to endless liberal pap. Shop wisely, go local where you can.

Wolfmoon on April 15, 2012 at 1:45 AM

You bring up some good points. Also something to keep in mind: Tuition at Harvard Less Than California State University

http://newamericamedia.org/2012/03/as-the-college-acceptance-letters-have.php

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 1:49 AM

“In this context, they’re goods purchased, right?”

No. So an apple is the same as health care and education? A cell phone? A tie? All goods (in one sense or another) ‘are purchased” — that does not make them the SAME. And that is my point, health care and education are fundamentally different goods, and consequently, should be purchased by fundamentally different standards.

“It means there are hospitals with better equipment, technology, and (most importantly) better doctors.”

Do you know what med school your doctor went to? How ‘updated’ their technology is? My guess is no. Certain methods and technology are mandated by the government (to ensure quality health care) so it doesn’t matter where you go. And medical school is medical school, my guess is none of us really care where our doctors went as long as they have “M.D.” by their name.

“Um, well, it depends. BTW, in my experience, many of my friends that paid the most for their UG edu went to tiny little LA colleges that charged for the “experience” more than the education.”

Purely anecdotal. For more objective analysis, look at statistics regarding the student body and overall outcomes after these kids graduate; i’m willing to bet they are much better when looking at higher ranked, more expensive schools.

“Many of “these types of schools” are private schools that have funds to let you go their for free (if they so choose). Write a letter. Ask them if you can be a freeloader.”

Again, this can help – but because tuition has risen so dramatically – even with assistance and a part-time job any people can finds themselves not being able to afford an education.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 1:53 AM

No. So an apple is the same as health care and education? A cell phone? A tie? All goods (in one sense or another) ‘are purchased” — that does not make them the SAME. And that is my point, health care and education are fundamentally different goods, and consequently, should be purchased by fundamentally different standards.

We’re talking about an economic principle here. They are goods purchased. If we’re talking about spiritual experiences or marital sex; that’s another thing.

Do you know what med school your doctor went to? How ‘updated’ their technology is? My guess is no. Certain methods and technology are mandated by the government (to ensure quality health care) so it doesn’t matter where you go. And medical school is medical school, my guess is none of us really care where our doctors went as long as they have “M.D.” by their name.

I have many “wealthy” (read: not low income) acquaintances that are very familiar about the education and accomplishments of their physicians and … specialty physician. Yes, people actually do dig around for who is “the best” when it comes to medicine. Oh, BTW, I don’t have a Dr.

Purely anecdotal. For more objective analysis, look at statistics regarding the student body and overall outcomes after these kids graduate; i’m willing to bet they are much better when looking at higher ranked, more expensive schools.

You’re right. So why don’t you define “top tier.”

Again, this can help – but because tuition has risen so dramatically – even with assistance and a part-time job any people can finds themselves not being able to afford an education.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 1:53 AM

Anecdotal evidence, is this?

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 2:00 AM

stuckinwisconsin, you’re really going to have to be more clear about this unattainable goal you have.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Meathead, I’m sorry, but you don’t get to dictate the terms of the debate here. Do you realize ‘goods purchased” refers to ALL goods? Surely, you don’t think all goods are the same, and consequently, should be treated and analyzed as being EXACTLY the same? Furthermore, nobody brought up that ‘economic principle’ besides you. My point was health care and education are fundamentally different goods, and consequently, should be judged and analyzed differently. That government regulates different goods in different ways. Individuals also judge different goods (and what they should pay, and WHY) differently. Just because a good is purchased (again, they ALL are) doesn’t mean they should all be treated the same. Why that is a controversial statement, I don’t know. For you to suggest otherwise is an intellectual cop-out.

“I have many “wealthy” (read: not low income) acquaintances that are very familiar about the education and accomplishments of their physicians and … specialty physician. Yes, people actually do dig around for who is “the best” when it comes to medicine. Oh, BTW, I don’t have a Dr.”

Ahh, I think your use of “wealthy” is telling. Most Americans are not wealthy. I do have a doctor (who has changed frequently due to insurance issues) and I can tell you, I have no clue where he went to medical school – it shouldn’t matter. A MD is heavily regulated by the government and the AMA; i.e. it doesn’t really matter where you go. The criteria for a BA, as I’m sure you’re aware’ are much less stringent and usually to the respective university.

“You’re right. So why don’t you define “top tier.”

I would suggest looking at the US news college rankings. They take into consideration many of the criteria I mentioned earlier. While they are not perfect, I do believe the provide a decent judgement as to the quality of many institutions.

“Anecdotal evidence, is this?”

Not really. The dramatic rising of tuition (as well as lower income families being unable to afford them) is fairly well documented and not unique to my experience whatsoever.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 2:16 AM

True, college tuition is higher than ever — but that’s largely because the government pumps so much money into higher education, through loans and other programs.
————————–
Really?… I think there is a loan bubble but its the for profit schools which are contributing to this rather than non-profit schools. Dangling rewards for better jobs which don;t materialize.

lexhamfox on April 15, 2012 at 12:57 AM
_______________________________

Yes, really. I spent decades in various educational systems. including almost a decade in a state level administrative body. I spent years pointing out that colleges and universities were soaking the public. Every time – every time – that more money was pumped into student aid, then there followed a big hike in not only tuition but FEES (that’s where universities have really begun raping students). But you think the problem lies only with “for-profit” institutions? Friend, there’s no such thing as a non-profit educational institution, no matter how they categorize themselves. And pray tell, how many universities have a 100% job placement rate these days? Yeah, right. I suspect that you or someone close to you is associated with a “non-profit college or university”.

fabrexe on April 15, 2012 at 2:17 AM

Riddle me this, TK, or other fellow hot airites:

I agree with the thrust of this post (that debts freely incurred are debts owed).

However, I believe in second chances as well.

The question:

Declaring bankruptcy (the last resort) clears one of all debt but student loans.

This means no second chances for those with heavy student loan debt for such debt remains despite declaration of bankruptcy.

Is this fair?

Should not bankruptcy given its deserved and severe ramifications clear all debts?

Should student loans hang about the debtors neck like a portable gaol until death releases their icy grip?

Sherman1864 on April 15, 2012 at 2:24 AM

“stuckinwisconsin, you’re really going to have to be more clear about this unattainable goal you have.”

As I mentioned earlier, I would prefer the federal government not be in the student loan business at all and consequently pay for lower tuition costs out of pocket. However, this ignores reality as the government has increasingly used loans and aid to help students achieve higher education, resulting in higher tuition. I don’t see this changing in the near future.

Consequently, my rebuttals are in response to Congresswoman Foxx (as well as most posters on here) who characterize my generation as ‘brats’ who are ‘wanting and wanting’ for merely using the system that has been handed down to us from previous generations. Tuition has not increased overnight; people outside of my generation have allowed this to happen.

And now it’s OUR fault when we are faced with insane tuition? OUR fault that our families cannot afford to pay insane tuition – even when working part-time and with merit scholarships? So only the rich should be able to go to a top university? Please do not characterize my generation has being apathetic and wanting “free-handouts” when it was not my generation who allowed this to happen.

My generation is merely trying to make the best out of what we’ve been given.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 2:27 AM

Meathead, I’m sorry, but you don’t get to dictate the terms of the debate here. Do you realize ‘goods purchased” refers to ALL goods? Surely, you don’t think all goods are the same, and consequently, should be treated and analyzed as being EXACTLY the same? Furthermore, nobody brought up that ‘economic principle’ besides you. My point was health care and education are fundamentally different goods, and consequently, should be judged and analyzed differently. That government regulates different goods in different ways. Individuals also judge different goods (and what they should pay, and WHY) differently. Just because a good is purchased (again, they ALL are) doesn’t mean they should all be treated the same. Why that is a controversial statement, I don’t know. For you to suggest otherwise is an intellectual cop-out.

Well, of course they are different goods, but the economic principle is that same. Then you go into the part about how the government treats these goods differently. You can either argue from a free market perspective or not. At the end of the day, one would hope the cost of education beyond your self-education is worth what you pay for it. The honest truth is that that’s just not the case these days – often because of how the government involves itself in education. There are, of course, other factors. One of them being an unrealistic expectation of “education.”

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 2:38 AM

Ahh, I think your use of “wealthy” is telling. Most Americans are not wealthy. I do have a doctor (who has changed frequently due to insurance issues) and I can tell you, I have no clue where he went to medical school – it shouldn’t matter. A MD is heavily regulated by the government and the AMA; i.e. it doesn’t really matter where you go. The criteria for a BA, as I’m sure you’re aware’ are much less stringent and usually to the respective university.

The use of “wealthy” indicates they were in a financial position to choose. I would like to call it empowered, really. The truth is, I am not in the economic situation they are in, but that’s my goal. I’m not going to strive to sit by and scrape the bottom of the barrel when it comes to economic goods such as healthcare. I also don’t feel entitled to the access to levels of healthcare (and more) they have. I will say, though, that I am at least somewhat aware of the level of experience, education, and acclaim of many of the healthcare providers I’ve worked with over the years (such as dentists and family members’ docs). I find it extremely odd that someone aware of “top tier” education has not informed themselves of their own doctor’s background (not just restricted to formal education).

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 2:43 AM

I would suggest looking at the US news college rankings. They take into consideration many of the criteria I mentioned earlier. While they are not perfect, I do believe the provide a decent judgement as to the quality of many institutions.

That’s not going to cut it. There are many different ways to rank universities as good to bad for a variety of different reasons. Be more specific.

Not really. The dramatic rising of tuition (as well as lower income families being unable to afford them) is fairly well documented and not unique to my experience whatsoever.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 2:16 AM

shrugs. I’m only seeing anecdotal coming from you.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 2:46 AM

[a lot of dodging]

My generation is merely trying to make the best out of what we’ve been given.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 2:27 AM

Anecdotal, right? Your generation is, quite frankly, not that bright. Perhaps the previous generations have contributed to this current herb being so dumbed down.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 2:50 AM

And yet, stuckinwisconsin, you have not pointed out how you cannot attain your goals without going under a mountain of debt.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

Let’s assume that higher cost actually means better education (I’m not convinced on this). So, we, as a society, are denying access to lower income individuals by not … what exactly?

Everyone needs food. Expensive food, I’d assume, has the potential to be more nutritious (I’m careful about my wording here). So, the government should ensure that everyone can shop at Whole Foods?

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 2:54 AM

Well, I guess this comes back to our fundamental disagreement regrading healthcare and education as a good.

My point is doctors are not judged by where they went to school (as again, they are heavily regulated to ensure quality and consistency among ALL medical schools) but rather, by their REPUTATIONS which are tied directly to the quality of health care they provide. That is, when I am off my parent’s insurance, when I look for a doctor I will ask “Who provides good health care, and thus is a good doctor” and not “Where can I find a doctor who went to a top medical school?” So it is the outcomes that doctors provide that matter (at least to me) and not necessarily if they went to a top medical school. Again, because they are ALL heavily regulated by the government and the AMA.

Similarly, I also judge colleges by outcomes. How many students graduate in 4 years? Find jobs? Get into good grad programs? However, colleges are different in the sense that they are hardly regulated (once regional accretion is achieved) when being compared to medical schools. Thus, these ‘outcomes’ become much more telling as to the quality of the institution. They may also indicate certain schools are worth paying more for, or at least taking loans out for.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 2:56 AM

Meat head, It’s pretty late here, so I’m off to bed.

You have made a few generalizations that would take a lot of deconstructing to respond to. Please check this thread tomorrow for a detailed response.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM

Well, I guess this comes back to our fundamental disagreement regrading healthcare and education as a good.

They are, right? I mean, do you believe healthcare is not an economic commodity? I guess you could argue it’s a service, but from the consumer’s point of view, it’s something you buy.

My point is doctors are not judged by where they went to school (as again, they are heavily regulated to ensure quality and consistency among ALL medical schools) but rather, by their REPUTATIONS which are tied directly to the quality of health care they provide. That is, when I am off my parent’s insurance, when I look for a doctor I will ask “Who provides good health care, and thus is a good doctor” and not “Where can I find a doctor who went to a top medical school?” So it is the outcomes that doctors provide that matter (at least to me) and not necessarily if they went to a top medical school. Again, because they are ALL heavily regulated by the government and the AMA.

I was very clear that I wasn’t restricting strictly to educational background: “I find it extremely odd that someone aware of “top tier” education has not informed themselves of their own doctor’s background (not just restricted to formal education).”

Similarly, I also judge colleges by outcomes. How many students graduate in 4 years? Find jobs? Get into good grad programs? However, colleges are different in the sense that they are hardly regulated (once regional accretion is achieved) when being compared to medical schools. Thus, these ‘outcomes’ become much more telling as to the quality of the institution. They may also indicate certain schools are worth paying more for, or at least taking loans out for.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 2:56 AM

If this is how you define “top tier,” then a lot of top tier universities are fairly accessible to many people. There are many great community colleges that can serve a dual purpose. 1) to train individuals for a career and 2) to prepare students for the next 2 years of an undergraduate career. Many great CCs offer engineering, science, CS, literature, history, &c programs that prepare students for a 4 year school. There are many affordable 4 year schools that are affordable. And so on. Now, at the end of the day, you’re not going to get into a good school if you don’t meet their academic standards… well, overlooking affirmative action and such.

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 3:09 AM

You have made a few generalizations that would take a lot of deconstructing to respond to. Please check this thread tomorrow for a detailed response.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM

The arguments I made are simple. And I’m not being vague. I can sympathize with any struggles you may face, but I won’t lower my standards or ditch principles. I’ve yet to see how you are being denied access to your goal. Yes, it may be harder than the offspring of a millionaire, but is it impossible?

MeatHeadinCA on April 15, 2012 at 3:12 AM

ThinkProgress flagged the interview as though it somehow reflected poorly on Foxx

Colleges/universities are part of the Dem infrastructure, a finishing school for young socialistas. Federal funding for Dem infrastructure needs to be rolled back ASAP.

petefrt on April 15, 2012 at 4:25 AM

Why should we bother to REPAY the loans? Obama has made it clear that as long as we send in a few bucks every month over the course of fifteen years, the feds will FORGIVE us the loan?

Wait a moment… isn’t guaranteeing loans (for housing) what got us into trouble in the first place?

eyesights on April 15, 2012 at 6:05 AM

As one who was married with three kids and worked several jobs while going through college (for a couple of degrees)I still have a tendency to both agree and disagree with the premise.

The fact is that the leftst education establishment has structured a massive and outrageously expensive pathway to a career of any kind. One can hardly sweep streets with out an advanced degree in civic maintenence engineering or something stupid like that.
The government grabbed the opportunity to keep everyone indebted to them via the education gate (a voting base?)

That wasted education bubble will burst as they no longer need to indoctrinate everyone, as most of the mainstream culture has been suficently corrupted by now to manipulate the masses through various media and free lunch/guilt free hedonism programs.

We are at the tipping point -and it is not just faulty economics that got us here – we vote for that self-destructive stuff in large numbers.

The moral anarchy we’ve engaged in has a consequence. Our nation was built on the presumption of personal responsibility and instead we defy Nature’s God for every whim. We embrace victimhood and permanent dependency and both major political parties seem to be happy with that as their base of power.

Don L on April 15, 2012 at 6:17 AM

Why should being able to attend a top school be contingent on one’s wealth? That is a society that inherently favors the rich (by only allowing the wealthy to attend the top universities, which tend to cost the most) — hardly an “opportunity society” if you ask my.

Congresswoman Foxx, you are extremely out of touch.

stuckinwisconsin on April 15, 2012 at 12:42 AM

my daughter was Nat’l Honors Society in High School (a good Catholic school, not some grade-inflater in Detroit) and she is going to the local community college for two years, and transferring to a 4 year school next month. She has worked 2 jobs for a couple years and our contributions to a Coverdell plan will nearly cover her costs.
Take your self-pity & entitlement and stuff it.

8 weight on April 15, 2012 at 7:16 AM

Why isn’t Dear Leader bashing universities etc for their money grubbing oppression of poor students?

Dingbat63 on April 14, 2012 at 9:37 PM

he has, listen to his 3 SOTU address….but barry has put his laser focus on it yet

DiabloAzure on April 15, 2012 at 7:20 AM

Why isn’t Dear Leader bashing universities etc for their money grubbing oppression of poor students?

Dingbat63 on April 14, 2012 at 9:37 PM

he has, listen to his 3 SOTU address….but barry has NOT put his laser focus on it yet.

sorry but missed it when i previewed

DiabloAzure on April 15, 2012 at 7:23 AM

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