Dershowitz: The charging instrument filed against George Zimmerman is “unethical” and will never make it past a judge

posted at 9:05 pm on April 12, 2012 by Allahpundit

Four and a half minutes of brutal criticism for prosecutor Angela Corey, whom he accuses straight-out of grandstanding for political gain. It’ll take you 30 seconds to read the entire charging instrument but I’ll save you 20 and post the critical bit:

Second-degree murder under Florida law is defined as:

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual

Dershowitz’s point: There’s nothing in the charging instrument that suggests probable cause to believe Zimmerman had a “depraved mind regardless of human life” when he shot Martin. On the contrary, he notes, the facts as stated are consistent with self-defense. (Tellingly, there’s also no reference to Zimmerman’s injuries.) The prosecution can amend the affidavit to strengthen its case if the judge throws it out, but then you’re left wondering why they didn’t submit a more detailed affidavit in the first place.

I don’t understand Corey’s strategy in charging him with murder two. Maybe she thinks Zimmerman will plead to a lesser charge, but if it’s anything less than manslaughter she’s going to take tremendous heat for having gone too easy on him. That’s a weird predicament for a politically-minded prosecutor to put herself in. She’ll take some heat even if she gets him to cop to manslaughter, in fact, since manslaughter is a crime of simple negligence and people who want him prosecuted believe Zimmerman’s far more morally culpable than that. (This is all assuming he’d be willing to make a deal, which, given the weakness of the charging instrument, he probably isn’t.) In fact, I also don’t get why she insisted on filing an affidavit of probable cause instead of taking the case to a grand jury. If they refused to indict him, she could have blamed them for him getting off and claimed she’d given it her best effort. As it is, if Dershowitz is right, her own affidavit’s about to be tossed by a judge and then she’ll have to answer for why she couldn’t even get to first base on a conviction.

Maybe her plan is to use the judge here as a get-out-of-tough-cases card? She probably knows she can’t get Zimmerman on murder two, but she also doesn’t want to be the one to have to break that to the public. She also doesn’t want to have to try to prosecute him on murder two if the evidence isn’t there, which would be a risk if the grand jury did indict him. So instead she’s taking the middle path: Go directly to the judge with a weak charging instrument and rely on him/her to throw it out. Then come back with a new affidavit listing a lesser charge — manslaughter or murder three — and say that she has no choice but to prosecute Zimmerman under that because the court stymied her on murder two. I’ll be curious to see what the fact pattern in those affidavits looks like because, frankly, if it’s as thin as the excerpt I posted up top, I’m not sure she’ll get the court to sign off on those charges either.

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Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 7:31 PM

You need immunity from your stupidity

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 7:37 PM

vermin on April 14, 2012 at 6:46 PM

It’s time to cut lil damian loose. Now, s/he/it has someone else writing their posts.

Damian is just a troll, and the pair are down in the basement just coming up with garbage to prolong an argument.

Go back and read the last couple of posts from it. You’ll see.

Solaratov on April 14, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Yep. Bashing trolls is fun, but it’s a waste of time.

See you on another thread!

JannyMae on April 14, 2012 at 7:41 PM

You need immunity from your stupidity

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Really?

I quoted Florida law to support my statements.

What are you backing your statements with, can you site any Florida statute or case law that in any way supports you?

Hmmm?

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 7:42 PM

Zimmerman was a self appointed unauthorized neighborhood watchman.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 7:19 PM

You’re stupid, troll.

And a liar.

Can’t your writing pal help you make up better lies?

Go away, troll. You’ve wasted enough time and space with your lies.

You racist lynch mob members are like a pack of ravening hyenas – just more stupid.

Solaratov on April 14, 2012 at 8:06 PM

Solaratov on April 14, 2012 at 8:06 PM

Yes resort to name calling, and race baiting as you al put it.

Moron

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:16 PM

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 7:42 PM

There is case law to support it, and I just read it. However you can do the searching, just like when I ask for links to prove something and none of you will respond to it.

Because it is lies what you post. You all lie to protect the gun rather than the human life.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:18 PM

True, do some research. He was self appointed without any help from the neighbors who thought he was over the top.

Thats fact.

Under the heading “Neighborhood Watch,” the newsletter’s message recommended that residents first call police and then “please contact our Captain, George Zimmerman … so he can be aware and help address the issue with other residents.”

I’m not going to quibble with you over how someone gets appointed to a pretend position like “watch captain,” but he certainly seems to have had the endorsement of the HOA.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57411185/homeowner-association-possible-target-for-trayvon-martin-suit/

I have a serious question for you. I’m worried about you, so please try to answer honestly: When you touch the top of your head, is it either moist or mushy or both?

vermin on April 14, 2012 at 8:19 PM

The association is not the homeowners.

And your article that you linked to proves my point that they can be in court for wrongful death as I stated.

By designating Zimmerman the neighborhood watch captain in the newsletter, the homeowners association “is stuck” if it’s sued, said Justin Clark, an attorney based in Longwood, Fla., whose practice includes real estate law.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:24 PM

This is interesting from your article:

A PowerPoint presentation put out by the Sanford Police Department for neighborhood watch groups, however, makes it clear that Zimmerman’s role had limits. The presentation warns volunteers not to try to be police themselves but to “work with the police.”

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:27 PM

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:24 PM

I haven’t commented on that issue, but it’s much more complicated than you’re able to understand, and I don’t like you enough to waste time explaining it to you.

Regardless, your last post contradicts itself. So, is the HOA the HOA or not?

More importantly, answer my question about your moist, mushy head.

vermin on April 14, 2012 at 8:29 PM

vermin on April 14, 2012 at 8:19 PM

I have a serious question for you, are you normally so against life? I mean really? You are more about protecting Zimmerman and smearing Martin.

Why? Have you slept with Zimmerman?

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:30 PM

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:24 PM

Damn you are stupid.

Would you go back to LGF or whatever sewer you came from, and have them send a better class of troll?

Or at least one who can write at a 6th grade level? If they could also write three posts in a row that don’t contract each other, that would be super.

Thanks a bunch.

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 8:30 PM

There is case law to support it, and I just read it. However you can do the searching, just like when I ask for links to prove something and none of you will respond to it.

Because it is lies what you post. You all lie to protect the gun rather than the human life.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:18 PM

No need to – statutes take precedence over case law.

Blake on April 14, 2012 at 8:31 PM

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:30 PM

Try to focus. When you put your finger in the wet, mushy spot on your head, do you feel pressure in your ears or the urge to pass gas?

vermin on April 14, 2012 at 8:36 PM

Blake on April 14, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Until a judge rules it unconstitutional.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:49 PM

Until a judge rules it unconstitutional.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:49 PM

No one needs your case law. The language of the statues are clear. This law is not going to be ruled unconstitutional – not now, not never.

Blake on April 14, 2012 at 8:54 PM

never = ever

Blake on April 14, 2012 at 8:56 PM

Until a judge rules it unconstitutional.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:49 PM

No no… a smarter troll, not a dumber one.

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 9:00 PM

damian has been up for 36 hours now. do u think he/she might be 1 or 2 or 3 working for the prosecution trying to plug the holes in their case against GZ by throwing all this stuff at Blake and vermin and Rebar, etc.

gracie on April 14, 2012 at 9:07 PM

gracie on April 14, 2012 at 9:07 PM

Wouldn’t surprise me at all, if a few LGF losers are using the same account to post this nonsense.

Or damian1967 is a methhead and is tweeking out for all to see.

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Yes resort to name calling, and race baiting as you al put it.

Moron

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 8:16 PM

GO AWAY, you moronic troll…and take your imbecilic writing partner with you.

Maybe your mommy will fix Hot Pockets for you.

Freakin’ troll.

Solaratov on April 14, 2012 at 9:15 PM

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Your an idiot, I have probably had my account here longer than any of you.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 9:42 PM

It’s time to cut lil damian loose. Now, s/he/it has someone else writing their posts.

Damian is just a troll, and the pair are down in the basement just coming up with garbage to prolong an argument.

Go back and read the last couple of posts from it. You’ll see.

Solaratov on April 14, 2012 at 7:08 PM

You are probably right. Either that or Damian is the freakin Energizer Bunny of Ignorance.

BigAlSouth on April 14, 2012 at 9:58 PM

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Your an idiot, I have probably had my account here longer than any of you.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 9:42 PM

Really?

Dreadnought on April 14, 2012 at 9:58 PM

Dreadnought on April 14, 2012 at 9:58 PM

Really.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM

Your an idiot, I have probably had my account here longer than any of you.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 9:42 PM

I doubt that.

Anyway, even so it doesn’t preclude your account from being used as a LGF tagteam of trolling.

Or meth addiction.

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 10:14 PM

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 10:14 PM

I dont doubt it, I am pretty sure I am probably accurate about it. I know I have had it for ATLEAST 5 years. amd probably longer.

Wingnut

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 10:22 PM

Rebar on April 14, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Your an idiot, I have probably had my account here longer than any of you.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 9:42 PM

First, it’s “You are” or You’re”. But then again considering that you went to a public school infested with layabout slugabed shirkaday NEA-union teachers, you spell pretty gooder, dontcha?

Citing how long you’ve had a membership here at HA is pathetic. You probably tell people that they should respect you because you’ve been following politics and social issues for twenty years or whatever. I’d reckon it’s more like one year repeated twenty times.

Or to make it plain to a dullard like you, you don’t learn from your mistakes. You keep making the same mistakes over and over again, expecting a different result. That’s the definition of stupidity and the penultimate definition of all Democrats, Liberals, Progressives, Socialists, Communists, Environmentalists, Race-Hustlers, OWS’ers, union leaders, La Raza illegal immigrant lobbyists and so on.

It’s getting late. Don’t forget to put on your jammie-jams and have your mommy tuck you in.

CatchAll on April 14, 2012 at 10:55 PM

Your an idiot, I have probably had my account here longer than any of you.

damian1967 on April 14, 2012 at 9:42 PM

2009?

LMFAO. And all your old posts are just as stupid and deranged as your current ones.

GTFO! girlfren!

tom daschle concerned on April 14, 2012 at 11:06 PM

Thankfully, this bile-swamp of a thread has almost fallen of the front page. However, last night as I was thinking happier thoughts, something occurred to me that should have been pointed out in response the Damian et al’s disgusting insistence that Zimmerman should be tried in order to determine whether or not there was enough evidence to charge him.

While grand juries are mostly a charging instrument, in theory, and sometimes reality, they also serve an investigatory purpose. In addition to using the police assets available to her, Corey could have contributed to the investigation of the shooting by presenting the case to a grand jury. The fact that she opted to file a pathetic, vacuous information instead speaks to the weakness of her case and her status as a political stooge.

vermin on April 15, 2012 at 1:20 PM

he is still guilty.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 2:05 PM

and you are still a race baiting liar.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 2:19 PM

he is still guilty.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 2:05 PM

I thought you said you had an open mind and all that?

Oh, which Damian1967 is this? The one who writes first shift, the afternoon gig, or the all-niter?

And you are still ignorant . . .

All three of you . . .

BigAlSouth on April 15, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 2:19 PM

You are actually the race baiter by bringing it up all the time, as I do not bring race into this.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 2:27 PM

BigAlSouth on April 15, 2012 at 2:22 PM

As much as you may want to believe, I am of one person, mind and soul. There is noone here but myself.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 2:30 PM

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 2:19 PM

And try as you may, I will not fall into the trap you keep attempting to set up that this is about race, because it is not.

You can keep setting the trap that you will keep falling flat on.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 2:33 PM

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 2:33 PM

It’s all about race, you race baiter. It’s not like you have the ability to discuss the evidence or law. You just make up shite. And when people try to educate you, you just repeat your same dishonest dreck.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM

You may think it is about race, as many others. I on the other hand do not think it is about race. I think for myself andnot with the masses of either side in the situation.

I will not bring race into something that I think is not about race. As I believe Zimmerman did not kill Martin because of any factor of race.

I have stuck to that and will continue to. The people, like you, that keep bringing race up are the race baiters. I will not fall into that, I have been consistent in not bringing race into this matter, and you keep trying to.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:01 PM

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM

And, by the way, you are not able to find ONE post that I have made that referenced either Zimmerman or Martins race, they are both Americans in my eyes.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:06 PM

You may think it is about race, as many others. I on the other hand do not think it is about race. I think for myself andnot with the masses of either side in the situation.

I will not bring race into something that I think is not about race. As I believe Zimmerman did not kill Martin because of any factor of race.

I have stuck to that and will continue to. The people, like you, that keep bringing race up are the race baiters. I will not fall into that, I have been consistent in not bringing race into this matter, and you keep trying to.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:01 PM

You have ignored facts, law, logic. People are sick of your disgusting lynch mob comments. Go away, race baiter.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 3:08 PM

And, by the way, you are not able to find ONE post that I have made that referenced either Zimmerman or Martins race, they are both Americans in my eyes.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:06 PM

You have lied your a$$ off in order to deny Zimmerman due process. Pi$$ off you disgusting loser.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 3:10 PM

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 3:08 PM

No you are sick of it, and I am not going anywhere. My views are as valid as anyone elses. You do not control what I say, where I say it, and how I say it. I can speak my mind so long as I want.

Thats what America is, just because you do not agree with it, does not make you the end all be all decision maker for me.

I will continue to post as much as I want, so get used to it.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 3:10 PM

I have not lied at all, you have, when you are caught in alie, you do not post proof to back your claim, so why should I. You post nothing relevant at all, I have tried to hold discussions here and you have done nothing but attack me, so I decided to attack you back. And you do not like it, so you call me a race baiter.

Moron

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:13 PM

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Either “Zimmerman is guilty,” or you are “willing to look at the evidence objectively.” You can’t have it both ways, no matter how much you try to. You have already declared that Zimmerman should be arrested and tried in order to establish if he committed a crime. That is not the way our legal system works, and you are probably not even an American, because you show no signs of understanding it.

I advocate that you keep talking, and digging bigger and bigger holes for yourself.

JannyMae on April 15, 2012 at 3:16 PM

JannyMae on April 15, 2012 at 3:16 PM

Sorry, but a crime was committed, a life was taken, it is up to a jury to decide if it was justified self defense, not the police.

There are many mistakes in the process thus far, it is not clear cut self defense, and many people agree with that.

If Zimmerman’s story holds face with all of the evidence, then he will go free, but on the face value of it, there is enough to call this into question, and obviously the police are and were not capable of doing this investigation correctly.

If this case was investigated properly, then I would not have a problem with not charging Zimmerman, but it was NOT. That should not be justification to let a person go scott free.

It is ALREADY proven by the makers of the SYG law, that Zimmerman was not covered by that. However that was the basis of the police to not charge him, because of SYG laws.

So which is it? There is obviously an issue here.

At the time, Police Chief Bill Lee cited the state’s “Stand Your Ground” law and stated publicly there was no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman based on the statute. This sparked outrage and cries for justice across the nation.

However it is already established that most likely Zimmerman does not qualify for that protection, so the police screwed this up already.

(CBS/AP) SANFORD, Fla. – The authors of Florida’s controversial “stand your ground” self-defense law say George Zimmerman should probably be arrested for shooting Trayvon Martin, reports the Miami Herald.

Photos: Trayvon Martin

“He has no protection under my law,” former Sen. Durell Peaden told the newspaper.

So the police got the law WRONG in the furst place.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Zimmerman, 28, reportedly admitted to police that he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on the evening of February 26. He was released without being charged after claiming he killed the boy in self-defense. But 911 recordings released over the weekend suggest that Zimmerman, who has a concealed weapons permit and volunteered in an apparently informal neighborhood watch program, pursued Martin, despite being told police were on their way.

It is the fact that Zimmerman ignored the 911 operator’s advice not to follow Martin that former Sen. Peaden says disqualifies him from claiming self-defense under the law.

“The guy lost his defense right then,” Peaden told the Miami Herald. “When he said ‘I’m following him,’ he lost his defense.”

Rep. Dennis Baxley, Peaden’s co-sponsor in the Florida House, agrees with his former colleague, telling the newspaper that the law does not license neighborhood watch or others who feel “like they have the authority to pursue and confront people. That is aggravating an incident right there.”

So the people who WROTE the law said Zimmerman should be arrested, and was not protected under the law THEY WROTE.

But the police said they could not arrest him because of that law, but the law doesnt apply to him.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:33 PM

THose are clear facts, and no matter how you want to twist it, it is fact.

So something is wrong with the system, clearly.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:35 PM

For all the relief among civil rights activists over the arrest, legal experts warned there is a real chance the case could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of the “stand your ground” law.

At a pretrial hearing, Zimmerman’s lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence — a relatively low legal standard — that he acted in self-defense in order to get a judge to toss out the second-murder charges. And if that fails and the case does go to trial, the defense can raise the argument all over again.

There’s a “high likelihood it could be dismissed by the judge even before the jury gets to hear the case,” Florida defense attorney Richard Hornsby said. Karin Moore, an assistant professor of law at Florida A&M University, said the law “puts a tremendous burden on the state to prove that it wasn’t self-defense.”
To prove second-degree murder, prosecutors must show Zimmerman committed an “imminently dangerous” act that showed a “depraved” lack of regard for human life.

The procecution has nothing. Nothing. There is no way they’re going to show “depraved lack of regard for human life” simply because Zimmerman watched Martin while calling the police.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 3:36 PM

As much as you may want to believe, I am of one person, mind and soul. There is noone here but myself.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 2:30 PM

YOU ARE A LIAR! Someone other than you wrote at least two of your posts above.

Or, perhaps you suddenly learned to use proper English grammar; and discovered what “spell check” was for.
Of course, it now seems that you have forgotten both.

You’re a troll, clown – and a lousy one. You’re being overpaid…no matter what you make.

Solaratov on April 15, 2012 at 3:40 PM

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 3:36 PM

But according to the SYG law, he is probably not covvered by it. The people who wrote the law said that.

Also there is fact that he was not covered by it, even going by what Zimmerman said.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:40 PM

Solaratov on April 15, 2012 at 3:40 PM

Cry me a river

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:41 PM

But according to the SYG law, he is probably not covvered by it. The people who wrote the law said that.

Also there is fact that he was not covered by it, even going by what Zimmerman said.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:40 PM

According to the law, he was indeed covered by it, the people who wrote the law are covering their asses because they don’t want the political heat when they run for reelection.

The law, as written in the books, is fully applicable. Actual defense lawyers say so. More than that, when the case is thrown out, he will be fully immune to civil suits.

The state has no case, no evidence, no nothing.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Cry me a river

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:41 PM

You’re the one doing the crying, princess. Because everybody sees you for the lying, race-baiting, lynch mob leftist troll that you are. (You and your troll-pals)

Go away. You’re boring and stupid, you moronic little troll.

Solaratov on April 15, 2012 at 3:50 PM

One question that the Martin family attorney has asked repeatedly is, “Why has Zimmerman not been arrested and charged with a crime?” It is a fair question. The Sanford police claim the Stand Your Ground law stood in their way. The complaint has been made that the law immunizes anyone who kills because they “felt threatened.” That is incorrect. Florida police are expected to use standard procedures for investigating any shooting, and especially any killing. Although Zimmerman claimed self-defense, the police could have placed him under arrest if they could develop “probable cause” that the force he used was unlawful. The Stand Your Ground law says citizens can “meet force with force,” but since Zimmerman

used a gun against an unarmed Martin

, the police had a sufficient legal basis that Zimmerman acted unlawfully and therefore could have arrested him.

To conclude, there is no connection between Florida’s Stand Your Ground law and the killing of Trayvon Martin. Martin did not break into Zimmerman’s home. Zimmerman was not under attack when he initially encountered Martin. Indeed, it is evident from the 911 tape that Zimmerman was alarmed because Martin was leaving the area. For those reasons, the Stand Your Ground law does not apply to the Martin case and Zimmerman can be charged and arrested.

http://jurist.org/hotline/2012/04/tim-lynch-trayvon-martin.php

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:51 PM

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Um, no. he is not covered by it, and many more defense attorney’s say he is not.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:51 PM

Martin ambushed Zimmerman, broke his nose, knocked him down, and smashed his head on the ground. Zimmerman’s testimony, eyewitnesses, and physical evidence all support this account.

All that nonsense you posted, what isn’t flat out wrong is completely irrelevant.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM

776.013(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Read the whole thing. Your missing key parts of it.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM

His Nose was NOT broken, and that has already been proven when the EMS reports from the scene were looked at.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:01 PM

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 3:33 PM

As always, you’re wrong. If you were right Corey could have countered Zimmermans claim of self defense be alleging Zimmerman followed Martin. She didn’t. Why do you think that is?

Here’s the law. Show me were it says what you think it does:

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 776.032

vermin on April 15, 2012 at 4:02 PM

His Nose was NOT broken, and that has already been proven when the EMS reports from the scene were looked at.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:01 PM

You keep saying his nose wasn’t broken, despite every published account that it was, including the actual police report which listed Zimmerman’s wounds included bleeding from the nose and the back of the head.

Where is your evidence to the contrary?

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:08 PM

vermin on April 15, 2012 at 4:02 PM

Did you even read the probably cause? I dont think so:

“Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin”

You didnt even read the probably cause, or you are lieing.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Read the whole thing. Your missing key parts of it.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:01 PM

I’ve read it. I’m not missing anything. You read it — not that you have the intelligence to understand it.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Bleeding from the nose means a broken nose? Really? HAHAHAHAHA

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Bleeding from the nose means a broken nose? Really? HAHAHAHAHA

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Bleeding from the nose is consistent with it being broken.

It is also consistent with the eyewitness statement that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him savagely.

You do realize that the eyewitness alone is more than enough to get Zimmerman’s charges dropped, don’t you?

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:16 PM

No the eye witness is not enough to get it dropped, because the SYG law does not apply to Zimmerman following Martin, as well as it is not proof that Zimmerman did not instigate a fight.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:18 PM

http://jurist.org/hotline/2012/04/tim-lynch-trayvon-martin.php

Good read, even though you will not read it.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:23 PM

No the eye witness is not enough to get it dropped, because the SYG law does not apply to Zimmerman following Martin, as well as it is not proof that Zimmerman did not instigate a fight.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Even if Zimmerman followed Martin, there is nothing illegal about following someone – SYG still applies.

And if there is no proof that Zimmerman instigated the fight – then he didn’t instigate the fight. It’s that “presumption of innocent” concept that you’re still failing to understand.

The eyewitness saw Martin assaulting Zimmerman pinning him to the ground, putting him in immediate danger of death or severe injury, and heard him cry for help. Nothing the procecution can possibly come up with can beat that.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:26 PM

No SYG does Not apply if he followed him:

When Zimmerman made the fateful decision to disregard the police dispatcher’s statement to await the arrival of the police and not to follow his “suspect,” he was acting outside and beyond the Stand Your Ground law

I know you hate the facts, but it is fact.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:28 PM

I know you hate the facts, but it is fact.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:28 PM

He would only be outside the SYG law if he did something illegal.

Nothing Zimmerman did was illegal in any way. Calling 911 on a suspicious person is not illegal. Following someone is not illegal. Ignoring a 911 dispatcher is not illegal. Approaching someone and asking a question is not illegal.

Jumping on someone, knocking them down, and savagely beating them – that is illegal.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Go back to school and learn how to read the law.

Glenn Beck:

Glenn then took a call from Floridian Brett, who said that the left will use this to squash “Stand your ground” laws. According to the AP, “Florida is among 21 states with a ‘Stand Your Ground Law,’ which gives people wide latitude to use deadly force rather than retreat during a fight. The self-defense law helps explain why a neighborhood watch captain has not been arrested in the shooting death of an unarmed teenager.”

“It doesn’t apply. You can’t just go follow somebody down the street and claim the ‘Stand Your Ground’ law,” Glenn said.

Several keys points. First, the threat must be deadly. It’s not just that someone punched you in the face. You must be threatened with force sufficient to kill you or cause massive bodily harm, or a similar forcible felony (such as rape).

Second, it’s not enough that the victim believes he is under a deadly threat. His belief must also be reasonable, meaning that under the circumstances an objective observer would likewise conclude the victim could be killed or severely injured.

Third, SYG only protects victims; it does not apply to attackers. If you’re attacking someone, you cannot claim SYG as a defense for what follows.

And fourth, it doesn’t apply if you cannot retreat. If retreat is not an option, then the situation is governed by ordinary self-defense laws, not SYG laws.

Under any version of the facts, Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law did not apply in the Trayvon Martin incident. If Zimmerman pursued a confrontation with Martin, then Zimmerman was an attacker and cannot claim SYG. If Zimmerman’s account is true that he was on the ground and Martin was on top of him, then retreat was impossible, so there would be no duty to retreat anyway. A victim in such a situation can use deadly force, but only if he reasonably believes he is being attacked with deadly force.

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/stand-your-ground-laws-do-not-apply-in-the-martin-zimmerman-incident/

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 4:44 PM

776.013(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Not being able to retreat does not negate one’s right not to retreat under SYG. It is only when SYG does not apply and one can’t retreat that one can use deadly force.

Now come back and say something stupid. We know you will.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 4:50 PM

Yes, lets read the law:

776.013(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity – check.
Zimmerman had ever right to be standing on a public street in a gated community he was a resident of – check.

Reading the actual law, Zimmerman has met every part for legitimate self defense. Perhaps you could use a refresher to improve your reading comprehension skills.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:52 PM

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:52 PM

Wrong, you are both wrong.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Now come back and say something stupid. We know you will.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 4:50 PM

Wrong, you are both wrong.

damian1967 on April 15, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Yup Blake, you were right again.

I’m actually suprised though, that this rediculous troll didn’t get the memo for the latest meme – Zimmerman inflicted his injuries on himself.
Slacker.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 5:41 PM

I’m actually suprised though, that this rediculous troll didn’t get the memo for the latest meme – Zimmerman inflicted his injuries on himself.
Slacker.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 5:41 PM

What a disgusting display of stupidity by Lee and the idiots hooting & hollering.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 5:48 PM

What a disgusting display of stupidity by Lee and the idiots hooting & hollering.

Blake on April 15, 2012 at 5:48 PM

The OJ trial, all over again.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 5:53 PM

Jumping on someone, knocking them down, and savagely beating them – that is illegal.

Rebar on April 15, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Zimmerman did it first. Trayvon fought back courageously and was winning the fight when cowardly Zimmerman pulled his gun and murdered Trayvon.

I don’t need facts. When I don’t have any, I make them up along the way!

-damian-

fadetogray on April 15, 2012 at 6:21 PM

Damian, you’re wrong. Even if Zimmerman followed Martin–and that’s a big if and contradicted by your own version of events, that doesn’t mean he would not have been authorized to use deadly force to respond to such force by Martin, which is what the evidence indicates he did. As long as Zimmerman’s use of force was authorized by Florida law, he is immune from both criminal and civil action. The law simply doesn’t say what you think it does, the stand your ground law doesn’t say what you claim it does, and you are 100 percent wrong on the facts of the case.

You can post all the links you want to politicians and pundits. No one involved with the investigation, including the prosecutor, agrees with you. Why do you think that is?

vermin on April 15, 2012 at 6:32 PM

My last post should read:

Even if Zimmerman followed Martin–and that’s a big if and contradicted by your own version of events–that doesn’t mean he would not have been authorized to use deadly force to respond to such force by Martin, which is what the evidence indicates he did.

vermin on April 15, 2012 at 6:34 PM

And here’s something else you should think about when considering whether or not to accept the legal opinions of media personalities in general and in this case in particular: Consider all of the things you’ve been told about this case that are misleading, verifiably false, or at least in conflict with other claims made by the media-endorsed lynch mob.

The claim that there is a police conspiracy is at least partially in conflict with the fact that the lead investigator initially wanted to charge Zimmerman.

The claim that there were no signs of a struggle on Trayvon’s body conflicts with the claim that Trayvon was screaming for help.

The claim that Zimmerman is a white-hipanic is objectively false, and labeling him as such would be a contrived attempt at race baiting even if it were true.

The claim that Zimmerman said “coons” is false and has now been abandoned.

The claim that Zimmerman was not injured is verifiably false.

The claim that the police surveillance tape showed no injuries is verifiably false.

The deliberate editing of the 9-11 call to make it appear as if Zimmerman had told the dispatcher he was suspicious of Trayvon because trayvon was black.

Need I continue? You see the point, right? You can’t trust the opinions of people who are willing to lie about facts. You should at least be able to infer that there are people in the public eye who are willing to lie, or at least very misinformed about the case.

If you’re not convinced that Zimmerman acted in self defense, calling for more investigation might be warranted. But demanding he be tried in the absence of evidence that he committed a crime is unconscionable.

vermin on April 15, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Jorge Rodriguez, Zimmerman’s next-door neighbor, told Reuters that when he saw Zimmerman the day after the incident, “he had two big, butterfly bandages on the back of his head, and another big bandage…on the bridge of his nose.” He was talking to a police detective in his driveway.

Rodriguez’s wife Audria also said she saw the bandages and a third neighbor, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, agreed with the Rodriguez couple’s account. “I saw two bandages on the back of his head, and his nose was all swollen up,” said the witness, who had watched from a nearby second-floor window.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE83F19Y20120416

Blake on April 16, 2012 at 7:36 PM

Cutcher had talked to WFTV, and said she did so because she was getting no response from police. That interview drew an unusual response from the Sanford Police Department. “Her statements during the WFTV interview are inconsistent with her sworn testimony to police investigators,” the police department said.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2012/03/trayvon-martin-thank-god-for-the-media.html

Blake on April 16, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Hearing today. No evidence of a broken nose. Noone even claimed it.

damian1967 on April 20, 2012 at 1:01 PM

It was a bail bond hearing, you loon — not a trial.

Blake on April 20, 2012 at 1:38 PM

911 Call:

Zimmerman – He looks in his late teens

Apology to Martins Parents

Zimmerman – I thought he was a little bit younger than I am.

More lies from Zimmerman.

damian1967 on April 23, 2012 at 8:46 PM

damian1967 on April 23, 2012 at 8:46 PM

The only liar here is YOU>

Blake on April 23, 2012 at 9:08 PM

Blake on April 23, 2012 at 9:08 PM

That was fact, he lied on the stand. He can not be trusted.

damian1967 on April 23, 2012 at 10:16 PM

damian1967 on April 23, 2012 at 10:16 PM

You’re a liar and the one who can’t be trusted. This is a 15 page thread of people calling you out on your lies. Do you really think you are fooling anyone?

Blake on April 24, 2012 at 7:44 AM

Blake on April 24, 2012 at 7:44 AM

Yes when facts hit you smack in the face, deny and attack. Your theme

damian1967 on April 24, 2012 at 3:33 PM

Yes when facts hit you smack in the face, deny and attack. Your theme

damian1967 on April 24, 2012 at 3:33 PM

The crap you make up are not facts. After 15 pages you think you would have learned something. Obviously not.

Blake on April 24, 2012 at 9:14 PM

Blake on April 24, 2012 at 9:14 PM

So even though the facts are there, you are denying that he lied about Martins age from court and 911 transcripts.

Interesting.

damian1967 on April 25, 2012 at 10:31 AM

But Gilbreath also said Zimmerman’s claim that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager was “not consistent with the evidence we found.” He gave no details.

From the bail hearing.

FACT

damian1967 on April 25, 2012 at 10:42 AM

In August 2011, he called to report a black male in a tank top and shorts acting suspicious near the development’s back entrance. “[Complainant] believes [subject] is involved in recent S-21s”—break-ins—”in the neighborhood,” the call log states. The suspect, Zimmerman told the dispatcher, fit a recent description given out by law enforcement officers.

Three days later, he called to report two black teens in the same area, for the same reason. “[Juveniles] are the subjs who have been [burglarizing] in this area,” he told the dispatcher.

And last month, on Feb. 2, Zimmerman called to report a suspicious black man in a leather jacket near one of the development’s units. The resident of that townhouse, Zimmerman told dispatch, was a white male. Police stopped by to investigate, but no one was there, and the residence was secure.

damian1967 on April 25, 2012 at 11:05 AM

So even though the facts are there, you are denying that he lied about Martins age from court and 911 transcripts.

Interesting.

damian1967 on April 25, 2012 at 10:31 AM

There are no facts supporting your delusion that he lied.

Boring.

Blake on April 25, 2012 at 3:49 PM

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