Social media and ¡revolución! In China. Really.

posted at 11:36 am on April 12, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

Good morning, all! While Ed steps out for a bit this afternoon, we thought I could mosey on over from my natural habitat at Townhall.com/Townhall Magazine and introduce myself .  I’ll open with one of my most enduring opinions, with which I would hope many can easily sympathize: communism is a miraculous feat of human stupidity. Can I get an amen?

Communism is not, and never has been, about constructing a fraternal society in which everyone shares equally in the blessings and burdens of life on earth, or whatever farcical hooey it is its proponents insist it can accomplish. It’s about keeping the few people in power, in power. In the search for a society that’s really based on preserving the supremacy of the 1%, look no further than the “People’s” Republic of China, where the small, entrenched ruling class shepherds the miserable masses from on high. And while it is true that, in recent years, China has started to see the emergence of a middle class, this is because China is coming to terms with the fact  that open and free societies are demonstrably the most conducive to economic growth and prosperity. You aren’t going to see a lot of ingenuity or innovation from your populace when you’ve got them in strangled in a centrally-planned chokehold.

However, as things stand, the Chinese regime is very much still in the business of protecting the status quo, which is why there are so many bureaucratic controls on the media and the Internet – a little information and idea-sharing is a powerful thing. Last month, charismatic Chongqing party chief Bo Xilai (incidentally, the father of the young communist ‘princeling‘ who took Jon Huntsman’s daughter on a date – their family is often described as China’s equivalent of the Kennedys) was ousted from the party. Then, earlier this week, the state media announced that Bo is being completely stripped of his Politburo and Central Committee positions and that his glamorous wife is a suspect in the mysterious death of a visiting British businessman. Cue the social media explosion:

“Amassing illegal funds, killing people, what else did they do?” Deng Fei, a journalist with the magazine Phoenix Weekly wrote on popular Twitter-like microblogging service Sina Weibo in one of the earliest reactions to the news.

China’s state-run Xinhua news agency and the country’s state broadcaster reported the events simultaneously at 11 p.m. on Tuesday evening. Sina Weibo published the Xinhua item on its official newsfeed in a post that was reposted nearly 50,000 times in its first 15 minutes.

The biggest political crisis to face Beijing since a military crackdown on prodemocracy student protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989, the downfall of Mr. Bo is also the first such crisis to unfold in the era of social media.

In the days following the March 14 announcement that Mr. Bo had been stripped of his position in Chongqing, unsubstantiated rumors of a split in the country’s central leadership leading to preparations for a coup began to swirl online, leading the government to order the country’s two largest microblog operators, Sina Corp. and Tencent Holdings Ltd., to temporarily shut down comments. Beijing has since pressured Internet companies to do more to control the online conversation, publishing multiple editorials in the state media warning about the dangers of rumors. …

Censors appeared to be working overtime to control the flood of commentary, with Sina Weibo continuing to block searches for Mr. Bo’s and Ms. Gu’s names and engaging in wholesale erasure of comments even on its own official posts.

“Tonight, Sina’s little secretaries are probably so busy they’re spitting blood,” one Weibo user wrote, using common Internet slang for the company’s in-house censors. “Who allowed rabble like us to possess nuclear-level weapons like a mouse and a keyboard?”

China is shortly due for one of their once-a-decade leadership transitions, and it appears that there are at least two factions starting to form in China’s upper leadership: those who might favor some government reform and restructure to allow for some socio-political liberalization, and those who continue to loathe Western-style democracy and are hell-bent on maintaining the current state of affairs. Bo tended toward the more traditional side of the spectrum, and it’s unclear whether the well-known power-couple’s demise was a downfall of their own doing, or an orchestrated takedown of a more insidious nature – and because of China’s powerful media censorship, the world may never know. What is clear is that the harmonious veneer China presents to the world is getting increasingly difficult to maintain, especially with the ability of social media to fuel unrest, and the communist regime knows it. Bloomberg is already reporting that, in the wake of the Bo coup de grace, the country is preparing for a smoother, more market-based transition of power:

Bo’s removal may foster more stability in the world’s second-biggest economy ahead of the 18th Communist Party Congress, said Ronald Wan, a Hong Kong-based managing director at China Merchants Securities Co. The congress later this year will pick a new party head and Politburo. Bo, 62, threatened to upset China’s consensus-dependent leadership if he remained in the inner circle, said Jonathan Fenby, China director of the U.K. investment-research service Trusted Sources. …

Chinese share prices rose in the two days since Bo’s dismissal was announced, with the Shanghai Composite Index (SHCOMP) gaining 0.4 percent as of 11:29 a.m. after gaining 0.1 percent yesterday, and global investors considered China’s sovereign debt to be less risky in trading today.

It’s a safe bet to say that, albeit very gradually, things are changing for the better in China, and that the irrepressible might of social media is playing a positive role in the cause for liberty.


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Since when does a murder bother the Chinese regime? It’s been business as usual for those clowns for decades.

NoDonkey on April 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM

It’s a safe bet to say that, albeit very gradually, things are changing for the better in China, and that the irrepressible might of social media is playing a positive role in the cause for liberty.

I have no doubt that things are changing, but given the duality in leadership the country seems to have at the moment I suspect a war or something to that effect will break out before any sort of peaceful “transition” occurs. And I would also be willing to bet that if war did break out between the hard liners and the “glasnosts” you would suddenly see a multitude of other factions start to join in the fray to try and carve out their own little piece of the map.

Gatsu on April 12, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Aren’t you missing (or ignoring) the part where Bo’s wife is charged with murdering a British citizen???
And about the Chinese military guy that went to the US embassy to spill the beans on the murder for fear he was going to be knocked off by Bo’s people?

albill on April 12, 2012 at 11:44 AM

Can I get an amen?

Amen! But unfortunately it really isn’t. For the masses who fall for the stupidity it is. For the elites it is a redefining of a new aristocracy and a tool to keep that aristocracy in power. That’s where the stupidity fed to the masses comes into play.

Communism is evil first and foremost. An evil perpetrated and perpetuated by evil people interested in gaining power and controlling the masses.

NotCoach on April 12, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Communism is a miraculous feat of human stupidity. Can I get an amen?

*throws hands in the air*

AMEN!

BigGator5 on April 12, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Welcome to HA, Erika!!

Bitter Clinger on April 12, 2012 at 11:51 AM

A better explanation of the situation would be to say the ruling regime is currently mildly liberal (in the classic sense), and that Bo leaned more towards old-style Communist/Maoist radicalism.

I have no doubt that things are changing, but given the duality in leadership the country seems to have at the moment I suspect a war or something to that effect will break out before any sort of peaceful “transition” occurs. And I would also be willing to bet that if war did break out between the hard liners and the “glasnosts” you would suddenly see a multitude of other factions start to join in the fray to try and carve out their own little piece of the map.

Gatsu on April 12, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Agree completely with this. Peasant revolts are happening with increasing frequency in China. I think that civil unrest is far more likely than a peaceful transition to democracy, especially in a society which has very little experience with democracy and whose main governing system has always been monarchy until Mao.

Doomberg on April 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

It’s a safe bet to say that, albeit very gradually, things are changing for the better in China, and that the irrepressible might of social media is playing a positive role in the cause for liberty.

How silly, and when the ¡revolución threatens the regieme in any way it will be “click” off, blank screens and no service. Erika, do you write for Time magazine?

dmann on April 12, 2012 at 11:58 AM

However, as things stand, the Chinese regime is very much still in the business of protecting the status quo, which is why there are so many bureaucratic controls on the media and the Internet

…what direction do you think they are headed for here?

KOOLAID2 on April 12, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Bo’s removal may foster more stability in the world’s second-biggest economy ahead of the 18th Communist Party Congress, said Ronald Wan, a Hong Kong-based managing director at China Merchants Securities Co.

If you look back through the course of history in Chinese politics, people who have been “removed” tend to re-appear later in a stronger position.

An example would be Deng Xiaoping and his treatment by “The Gang of Four”.

A book I highly recommend to get some idea of Chinese politics (I had no idea there left and right factions in the Chinese communist party until reading it) is

“Heaven Cracks, Earth Shakes: The Tangshan Earthquake and the Death of Mao’s China” by James Palmer

While it is about the end of Mao’s regime and the transition though the Gang of Four, it also gives a very interesting view onto Chinese political infighting. The entire episode with Bo Xilai has taken on a completely different slant to me in the context of having read that book.

This purging of Bo actually makes me feel more comfortable about the future. Bo was the one who brought China such things as “Red TV” where “revolutionary” programming replaced the popular serials, ads were removed, etc. Bo’s closest ally was apparently the leader of China’s internal security apparatus and he has apparently also had his wings clipped and security forces “re-trained”.

What I would wonder now is to what extent Bo had influence with the military and what changes, if any, have been made there.

crosspatch on April 12, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Agree completely with this. Peasant revolts are happening with increasing frequency in China. I think that civil unrest is far more likely than a peaceful transition to democracy, especially in a society which has very little experience with democracy and whose main governing system has always been monarchy until Mao.

Doomberg on April 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

And there in lies the rub. I am not going to say that the Chinese CAN’T become democratic, but it is a lot harder to take up that flag when all you and your country has ever known is Emperors and Politburos, not to mention all the corruption/court intrigues that have gone on in China throughout the centuries. I fear that bad times are coming for them.

Gatsu on April 12, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Something something –Allen West, 78 tom81 US congress persons are members of the Communist Party–… something something…

SWalker on April 12, 2012 at 12:08 PM

I wonder how many HA readers ever heard how the unrest in Wukan was resolved a couple of months back? It seemed a lot of commenters were expecting the PLA to move in and crush the peasants, but fortunately it ended peacefully.

I don’t recall seeing that reported here, so if you missed it, take a look.

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2012 at 12:25 PM

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2012 at 12:25 PM

I didn’t know this and I am glad to hear it. Although never hearing any follow up about a massive crackdown made me assume they resolved the dispute somewhat peacefully.

NotCoach on April 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM

I’ll open with one of my most enduring opinions, with which I would hope many can easily sympathize: communism is a miraculous feat of human stupidity. Can I get an amen?

No. Not even close.

First, if communism is miraculous then it has nothing to do with human-stupidity, and vice-versa.

Second, China has similar problems before Mao’s time, during Mao’s time and after Mao’s time — which should give a clue to the fact that the problems are not really about communism. China has struggled with nepotism and the likes for centuries and devised systems of government to try to eliminate it, which is how the English language acquired the word ‘Mandarin’ to describe a government bureaucrat.

Third, China’s middle class existed and was thriving after Mao and long before internet-based social media arrived and made it visible to non-Chinese.

Fourth, everywhere in the world there are greedy people trying to acquire or consolidate the grasp of power and wealth and keep others away from it. China certainly has such a problem, and any kind of ‘structure’ can be used by those ‘inside’ … the USA has lobbyists, China has guangxi. Vested interests exist everywhere and trying to justify why one is more evil than the other is tricky.

Fifth, neither Chinese society nor the Chinese communist party is even remotely homogenous. In a country with 26 native ethic groups, dozens of native languages and dialects, five autonomous regions, two official internal borders, 4 different writing scripts, umpteen hundred million people that struggle to talk to one another for want of common language and pronunciation, and that have grudges between them that go back into the mists of history, it would be silly to expect uniformity. The politburo in Beijing doesn’t have half the control of the country that it would like to have.

Sixth, China is one of the few countries (perhaps the only one, I don’t know) that has a habit of executing officials for corruption. Obviously that implies that corruption does occur but there are those in the Communist party that strive to eradicate it.

Seventh, the words of hot-headed internet warriors in China are worth just as much as the word of hot-headed internet warriors anywhere else in the world. i.e, not much. Prejudice, ignorance, hyperbole, rumour, and ill-founded conspiracy theories abound in the Orient much the same as in the Occident.

YiZhangZhe on April 12, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Could you imagine one day if statues of Mao came down in Red China. Thousands of college professors in the US. would be bummed for weeks/years.

Hummer53 on April 12, 2012 at 12:40 PM

For several years, I studied Chinese language, culture and philosophy.

I learned several things.

Since Confucianism spread through China, the Chinese people have always been accepting of a strong, centralized, paternalistic government. Chinese emperors were despots in the truest sense. So when the Communists took over Mainland China, the Chinese people just traded one despot for another.

Yes, there is some resistance in China. But those in power in China know several things:

1. The West is either so scared of China, or so indebted to it, that they will not speak out if China violently suppresses a rebellion, independence movement or whatever.

2. The key to changing Chinese acceptance of strong central power is to maintain the culture that has dominated China for thousands of years. The Western ideas creeping in, partly as a result of technology (but remember this is heavily censored in China), but mostly as a result of cultural exchange with the West attached to business.

3. Because of #2, the key to holding on to power is to do what Mao did and start a campaign of anti-Westernism. #1 and expediency mean that a violent repression is the best way to do this in their minds.

We in the west, especially conservatives of the neoconservative bent, make the dreadful mistake of assuming that other cultures are desirous, or even capable of, freedom. That’s what we’re doing with China, just as we did with the non-Jewish Middle East.

I expect that China will revert to some sort of extremely suppressive government ( a la Mao), and that this, coupled with Red Chinese incompetence in various areas from manufacturing to management of resources and the shortly impending demographic collapse, will result in China falling back to some sort of not-so-scary power. I do NOT expect China to become an American-style republic or ‘democracy’.

avgjo on April 12, 2012 at 12:47 PM

In China, the media is controlled by the communist government, censoring information that is damaging to the regime. Internet uprisings are squashed and censored.

On the plus side, a lot of the censorship in China produces children who are more innocent since they are not as widely exposed to the moral depravity in the media we have here.

In the USA, the media is a willing accomplice to promoting the government’s Marxist and communist ideals, deliberately censoring information that is damaging to the friendly regime, and blowing out of proportion information that is damaging to anything unfriendly to the regime. Internet uprisings are marginalized by the politics of personal destruction, silencing by protest and boycotts, and occasionally (just my personal belief) through “natural causes”. So the final result isn’t really all that different.

On the plus side, we DO have a modicum of free speech here, and sometimes it’s worth having to put up with the moral depravity in the media.

All other things considered, there are some good reasons to prefer to live in China right now. Just MHO.

The Rogue Tomato on April 12, 2012 at 12:47 PM

YiZhangZhe on April 12, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Excellent comments as usual. It’s 56 officially recognized ethnic groups though.

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2012 at 12:48 PM

Sorry for #2, it should have read

‘the key to maintaining Chinese acceptance…’

avgjo on April 12, 2012 at 12:49 PM

And ‘the Western ideas creeping in… are conducive to changing this culture of acceptance.’

Shoulda had coffee this morning!

avgjo on April 12, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Fifth, neither Chinese society nor the Chinese communist party is even remotely homogenous. In a country with 26 native ethic groups, dozens of native languages and dialects, five autonomous regions, two official internal borders, 4 different writing scripts, umpteen hundred million people that struggle to talk to one another for want of common language and pronunciation, and that have grudges between them that go back into the mists of history, it would be silly to expect uniformity. The politburo in Beijing doesn’t have half the control of the country that it would like to have.

I would say that the above is what I have learned in the past few months about China. Even within the politburo and the various committees there are alliances and factions that constantly jockey for influence. It is not as monolithic as many in America believe it is either culturally or politically, it is very complicated and in many cases, a delicate balance.

crosspatch on April 12, 2012 at 12:53 PM

I like your writing style better than Jazz or Tina’s recent post. China cant sustain there current position, should be interesting to what happens in the coming years.

ArkyDore on April 12, 2012 at 12:54 PM

YiZhangZhe on April 12, 2012 at 12:35 PM

+1000

The Rogue Tomato on April 12, 2012 at 12:58 PM

I don’t recall seeing that reported here, so if you missed it, take a look.

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2012 at 12:25 PM

Thanks for providing the link, I was wondering what had happened with that situation.

I would say that the above is what I have learned in the past few months about China. Even within the politburo and the various committees there are alliances and factions that constantly jockey for influence. It is not as monolithic as many in America believe it is either culturally or politically, it is very complicated and in many cases, a delicate balance.

crosspatch on April 12, 2012 at 12:53 PM

The impression of China having an all-powerful, all-knowing central government is somewhat overblown in the West and based primarily on an Orwellian vision of totalitarianism. Everything I’ve ever read about it indicates that, as you said, internally they are very heavily fractured, and that furthermore, the regional officials far away from Beijing have a fair amount of independence to act on their own. If the central government did not have the PLA, they would have a hard time keeping everything under control.

Doomberg on April 12, 2012 at 1:08 PM

We in the west, especially conservatives of the neoconservative bent, make the dreadful mistake of assuming that other cultures are desirous, or even capable of, freedom. That’s what we’re doing with China, just as we did with the non-Jewish Middle East.

The ‘west’ makes the mistake of thinking that the west is capable of freedom, even as western socialists steadily erode it, and western thugs and western pretentious liberals find new ways to abuse it. And socialism is, after all, a western invention.

I expect that China will revert to some sort of extremely suppressive government ( a la Mao), and that this, coupled with Red Chinese incompetence in various areas from manufacturing to management of resources and the shortly impending demographic collapse, will result in China falling back to some sort of not-so-scary power. I do NOT expect China to become an American-style republic or ‘democracy’.

avgjo on April 12, 2012 at 12:47 PM

You’ve surely got to admit that “incompetence with Chinese characteristics” is a very remarkable kind of incompetence, much different from foreign incompetence?

As populations become restless and less capable/willing to practise self-control I expect governments in all regions will become more inclined to oppression. Crossings-over back and forth between liberty and oppression have occurred in ‘western’ countries several times in the past century. China will become oppressive according to its culture, the western nations according to their respective cultures. One day liberty might break free again.

YiZhangZhe on April 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM

It’s 56 officially recognized ethnic groups though.

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2012 at 12:48 PM

Ooops. Thank you. It must be a touch of that illness that caused Mr Obama to miscount the states of America. According to my Chinese-English dictionary, this illness is called “Stupidity”.

YiZhangZhe on April 12, 2012 at 1:14 PM

I do agree with your statement, YiZhangZhe about self-control. Nevertheless, we cannot, at this point in history, compare the repression in the West with that in China. For instance, you do not have pastors being beaten to death by their police in Western countries – yet.

As far as the incompetence – that’s something actually revealed to me by Mainland Chinese acquaintances and friends. As they related to me, citizens of Mainland China prefer to buy foreign-made goods because they are known to be of higher quality. Also, you do not see ghost cities popping up in most other parts of the world, ostensibly to meet some bureaucratic quota. My brother does lots of business with China, and he told me that one thing that amazes him is how China overproduces certain goods to absurd levels, to the point where items fill warehouses long after said items are out of fashion or demand. What is impressive about china’s way of doing business, though, is their willingness to accept that real-world economics and business does involve some mercantilist perspectives, and they are smart enough to buy up natural resources all over the world. China is also smart enough to take advantage of foolishly-crafted ‘free trade’ agreements with countries like the U.S.

I should have been more explicit in my comments. This incompetence, I believe, stems from a bureaucratic system that does not permit full freedom of expression. The Chinese people themselves are very bright, hard-working and pay amazing attention to detail (at least the many I’ve met). But none of this matters in a system that limits it.

Finally, your last comment is probably true. Frighteningly so.

avgjo on April 12, 2012 at 1:24 PM

China in some ways is becoming more and more like the west. Prosperity has allowed the politicians to work against each other for more control and the ability to control government outlays. I wonder how long it will take them start spending more money than they are taking in. When that happens we will know that we have succeeded in making them into a government similar to our own.

buckeyerich on April 12, 2012 at 1:41 PM

As populations become restless and less capable/willing to practise self-control I expect governments in all regions will become more inclined to oppression.
YiZhangZhe on April 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Government welfare programs promote personal improvidence and irresponsibility; and this in turn provides the excuse for ever more government control.

That’s not a natural trend to be accepted as the inevitable future of humanity. It’s an extraordinarily vicious cycle which must be broken if freedom is to survive.

logis on April 12, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Government welfare programs promote personal improvidence and irresponsibility; and this in turn provides the excuse for ever more government control.

What is interesting about China is their (relative) lack of government welfare programs.

crosspatch on April 12, 2012 at 2:35 PM

For those interested in China’s 56 ethnic groups, here they are-

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/12/06/family-portraits-of-all-56-ethnic-groups-in-china/

CurtissP-40b on April 12, 2012 at 2:43 PM

It’s far too early to say that things are improving politically in China. Things seem to loosen for awhile, then the regime clamps down again. Totalitarian regimes may seem to loosen, but the people on top have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. As long as people can make money and improve their lives, the Reds will be able to maintain an authoritarian regime as they have in Singapore. If they begine to destabilize, then we will have a serious problem.

Before we worry about China, however, we need to look to our own front porch in DC. The US regime is sliding downhill at an ever increasing rate and is on the verge of instability. When we reach the point of instability, then DC will be the most dangerous regime in the world for us.

Quartermaster on April 12, 2012 at 3:17 PM

CurtissP-40b on April 12, 2012 at 2:43 PM

P-40, have you ever been to this Ethnic Culture park in Beijing?

Much of it is tacky in a tourist luau kind of way, but there are some interesting things as well. The Baizi (白族) exhibit seemed to have been the best done, as I recall.

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2012 at 3:48 PM

so the summary is it’s all good now? It’s moving toward liberty?
Do you also believe Muslim revolutions bring democracy?

Wishing and hoping does not a reality make, bad article.

John Kettlewell on April 12, 2012 at 4:03 PM

Nevertheless, we cannot, at this point in history, compare the repression in the West with that in China. For instance, you do not have pastors being beaten to death by their police in Western countries – yet.

avgjo on April 12, 2012 at 1:24 PM

Better to say “not beaten to death by police recently“, because unless we want to say ‘the west’ began in the 1970s, then ‘Western’ civilisation has a long track record of violent acts by agents of the state against citizens including some of the worst acts of the past 100 years. Europe has given the world some of the high-notes of civilisation, but also some of the worst atrocities. The USA may not have gone quite as low, but neither has it gone as high.

My point is that the much vaunted, highly lauded ‘western’ civilisation that offers freedoms and protections even to peons, is itself very young — well under a century old — only just standing upright, barely tested, and already wavering under attack from its own proponents and progeny.

And, of course, beating people to death in custody isn’t lawful in China either but perhaps malice and stupidity conspire to cause it to happen, and dogma, indifference and nepotism conspire to pretend it didn’t. Nonetheless, it isn’t officially prescribed policy.

YiZhangZhe on April 12, 2012 at 5:24 PM

YiZhangZhe on April 12, 2012 at 5:24 PM

+十百万

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2012 at 5:40 PM

YiZhangZhe 5:24

No doubt. But I think you would concede that the modern west that has been so highly lauded is (so long as it survives) the end result of a long process of historical forces, starting way back in Sunny Greece and rugged Israel. I just don’t see those forces at work elsewhere. And I completely agree with you that other forces are at work in the west to destroy that progress.

I also second DarkCurrent’s scoring of your comments. It has been very informative and pleasant to converse with you.

avgjo on April 12, 2012 at 5:54 PM

avgjo on April 12, 2012 at 5:54 PM

I’m interested to see YiZhangZhe’s response, but in the meantime I’ll just note that for most of the last 2,000 years China has been the richest and most prosperous nation on the planet. People in the west seem to frequently overlook or forget that.

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2012 at 6:13 PM

What is interesting about China is their (relative) lack of government welfare programs.
crosspatch on April 12, 2012 at 2:35 PM

China’s extremely low standard of living isn’t particularly “interesting.” It’s ubiquitous in Communist countries.

As Mao explained with inarguable accuracy: the wealth of western cultures can create “economic fairness” — but only temporarily. The giving serves as an excuse for the real goal of confiscating property and consolidating power. Liberalism is only an interim stage before the eternal and universal poverty that Communism always creates.

logis on April 12, 2012 at 7:09 PM

China’s extremely low standard of living isn’t particularly “interesting.” It’s ubiquitous in Communist countries.

logis on April 12, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Is a sustained 8 ~ 9% GDP growth rate also ubiquitous in true Communist countries?

DarkCurrent on April 13, 2012 at 4:28 AM

Is a sustained 8 ~ 9% GDP growth rate also ubiquitous in true Communist countries?
DarkCurrent on April 13, 2012 at 4:28 AM

Definitely not. Most dictatorships claim their growth rates to be much higher than that.

logis on April 13, 2012 at 9:21 AM

Definitely not. Most dictatorships claim their growth rates to be much higher than that.

logis on April 13, 2012 at 9:21 AM

I hope you’ll come visit Shanghai someday. We could have a few drinks and you could explain to me how China’s supposedly bustling economy is all nothing more than a Commie deception.

DarkCurrent on April 13, 2012 at 12:37 PM