Breaking: Zimmerman to be charged in Martin shooting; Update: Zimmerman arrested, charged with 2nd-degree murder

posted at 2:56 pm on April 11, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

So says the Washington Post:

Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as Wednesday afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting ofTrayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.

It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face. …

Corey told reporters Tuesday night that she would hold a news conference about the case within 72 hours. A news release from her office said the event will be held in Sanford or Jacksonville, Fla.

The latest update on the case before now was that his attorneys had resigned from the case, and that they had lost contact with Zimmerman.  Given the bounties that groups like the New Black Panther Party tried to put on his head, his disappearance is somewhat understandable.  Today, former Zimmerman attorney Hal Uhrig expanded on what he knew about Zimmerman’s whereabouts:

“You can stop looking in Florida,” Uhrig told reporters. “Look much further away than that.”

A few days ago, I wrote that we needed to let the investigation proceed and have the facts established on the record, rather than to continue speculating through the prism of media bias and competing agendas, as has been the case for the last couple of weeks.  If the Post proves accurate with this report, it appears that the special prosecutor in the case has found evidence that Zimmerman’s use of lethal force does not meet the statutory requirements for its use in self-defense.  That evidence will have to be weighed by a jury, and they will have to decide whether the prosecutor can prove that case to a reasonable doubt.

Of course, a trial can’t start until Zimmerman returns to the jurisdiction, if in fact he’s left it at all.  But thanks to the way that this case has been handled by the media and by activists, there will be some reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman can get a fair trial.  Media outlets broadcast defamatory and false information about Zimmerman, and some even became activists themselves in the case.  Florida should be able to find twelve people who can fairly judge the evidence presented at trial and only that evidence, but it won’t be an easy task to seat such a panel.

Finally, as I suspected all along, the Stand Your Ground law appears to have nothing to do with this case (although it still might be argued by the defense, of course).  If the law was a problem, the prosecutor wouldn’t be able to file charges against Zimmerman.  This case will hinge instead on the normal, core self-defense laws governing the use of lethal force.  Let’s hope we can all wait to see the evidence and weigh it properly in that context when the time comes.

Update: CNS News provides more insight on why Stand Your Ground is irrelevant in this case, courtesy of Ken Blackwell and Ken Klukowski of Liberty University School of Law:

Under any version of the facts, Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law did not apply in the Trayvon Martin incident. If Zimmerman pursued a confrontation with Martin, then Zimmerman was an attacker and cannot claim SYG. If Zimmerman’s account is true that he was on the ground and Martin was on top of him, then retreat was impossible, so there would be no duty to retreat anyway. A victim in such a situation can use deadly force, but only if he reasonably believes he is being attacked with deadly force.

To our knowledge, that is the law in all fifty states. It was the law before SYG statutes were ever passed, and SYG did nothing to change it.

So why is this not common knowledge after all the reporting on the Martin shooting? Tragically, some anti-gun activists are misinforming the public. They are aided by media commentators who failed the public trust by not researching and understanding the SYG issue before presuming to editorialize on it.

The police are usually not at hand when you are attacked by a criminal. The Second Amendment guarantees the right of law-abiding people to defend themselves. And laws like Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground have restored that right in states where it had been eroded, not to take innocent life, but instead to preserve it.

Be sure to read it all, as they also discuss the high standard involving the legitimate use of lethal force.

Update II: The prosecutor filed second-degree murder charges, and the AP reports that Zimmerman has been arrested:

The neighborhood watch volunteer who shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was arrested and charged with second-degree murder Wednesday after months of mounting tensions and protests across the country.

George Zimmerman, 28, could get up to life in prison if convicted in the slaying of the unarmed black teenager.

Special prosecutor Angela Corey announced the charges but would not discuss how she arrived at them or disclose other details of her investigation, saying: “That’s why we try cases in court.”

Second-degree murder is typically brought in cases when there is a fight or other confrontation that results in death and but does involve a premeditated plan to kill.

Manslaughter would have been another option, so it’s interesting that she went with murder two.  I assume that this means the prosecution believes they can prove that Zimmerman pursued Martin and shot him, but we’ll know more when the preliminary hearing comes.

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Will a website be set up where people can make donations to Mr George Zimmerman’s defense fund?

A donation to such a site would be a great way to flip the bird at all the far-left race-hustling anti-gun Libtards who have deliberately and knowingly pre-judged Mr Zimmerman’s alleged guilt (i.e. they are PREJUDICED).

CatchAll on April 11, 2012 at 11:42 PM

According to Glenn Beck, there is a website for that.

fullogas on April 11, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Your first post looked pretty unhinged to me. Context is your friend. I hate to ask, but what was your feelings with the OJ verdict? Honest question.

RovesChins on April 11, 2012 at 11:37 PM

I don’t know. I was fresh in highschool and confused about the entire thing and worried teenager things. The joke is that he did it. The joke is Johnny Cochran rhyme time. OJ Simpson turned out to be a joke. No one has sympathy for him.

Magnus on April 11, 2012 at 11:40 PM

Fair enough, Magnus. But, it seems that the resident libtards are liking your arguments. And they are unhinged. Trayvon’s record was not squeaky clean. Throwing gang signs, wearing grillz, calling yourself a high limit n&gga, getting busted for pot is not the angel the media is trying to sell us. If trayvon attacked him and was bashing Zimmerman’s head into the sidewalk, it was a clean shot. Zimmerman was protecting his neighborhood. I will wait for the facts, but do t try to sell that this kid was an angel. Teenagers can and do commit heinous crimes.

RovesChins on April 11, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Magnus on April 11, 2012 at 11:31 PM

Thanks for the civility, and clarification. It is still hard for me to understand. I do have family (caucasian) married into a Hispanic family, whom we love dearly, offspring especially. And while celebrating a multicultural Easter, we did discuss this case, and they had never heard the term “white Hispanic” either. Not trying to be argumentative at all. Fully supportive of the toddler and the preschooler being bilingual, think it’s wonderful and wish I were. His family is from Mexico, and they don’t distinguish, so please understand, if there are no “cracker” nuances, or gradations allowed, it can be difficult for us offer the same distinctions.

waterytart on April 11, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Night all, old peeps need their rest. Still waiting on that address Chudi. I really want to send you that penny I found. You deserve your taxes back. It is only fair.

Conservative4Ever on April 11, 2012 at 11:48 PM

Goodnight. Just look for the racist rock.

RovesChins on April 11, 2012 at 11:53 PM

Peace love and hair grease folks. I think my last post got block cause I said knee-grows. Oops! ;P

Magnus on April 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Obama is losing the Hispanic vote

Roy Rogers on April 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Sure are a lotta kangaroos in the court today.

profitsbeard on April 11, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Bingo! Big, illogical, bigoted ones that seem to exercise their minds by jumping to conclusions, too.

ghostwalker1 on April 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Obama is losing the Hispanic vote

Roy Rogers on April 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Amnesty talk in 5…4…3…2…1

RovesChins on April 11, 2012 at 11:57 PM

More on NBC’s destruction of evidence in the case of their faked 911 recordings: The George Zimmerman 911 scandal is now being called Editgate, and NBC News is acting accordingly

slickwillie2001 on April 11, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Obama is losing the Hispanic vote

Roy Rogers on April 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Well, you know what that means – dead voters will have to work that much harder.

VorDaj on April 12, 2012 at 12:00 AM

Obama has Hispanics backs just like he has Israel’s back.

VorDaj on April 12, 2012 at 12:02 AM

Little Bammie was really stupid to jump into this with both feet. He has the black vote locked up, around 97%. That’s not going to change. This might energize them if that’s a positive.

The ‘hispanic’ vote on the other hand, -he got around 68% of in 2008. That vote is very much in play this year. That demographic is growing, including illegals that unfortunately vote. This is going to energize them to vote against little Bammie.

Net effect, he loses votes over Zimmermann.

slickwillie2001 on April 12, 2012 at 12:05 AM

Obama is losing the Hispanic vote

Roy Rogers on April 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM

The Democrats know their fling with the Hispanic Catholics is a short term thing. Hispanics will gradually realize the Democrat Party is the party of race mongering and immorality, and that just isn’t the way they roll, at least not on balance.

Of course the Democrats will keep the criminally inclined Hispanics, but that is what they always do. Even criminally inclined Americans of British heritage are far more likely to be Democrats.

fadetogray on April 12, 2012 at 12:07 AM

Net effect, he loses votes over Zimmermann.
slickwillie2001 on April 12, 2012 at 12:05 AM

Assuming that there IS a vote. a ‘good race war’ would give him the opportunity to declare Martial Law and ‘postpone’ elections

(Yeah, I know, ‘tinfoil hat’ stuff.)

LegendHasIt on April 12, 2012 at 12:13 AM

Magnus on April 11, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Werk!

libfreeordie on April 12, 2012 at 12:20 AM

Since Martin was being pursued by GZ, me thinks Martin is the one who was protected by ‘Stand your ground’. Why is he not covered by that law, or was the law only passed for white people in Florida?

Chudi on April 11, 2012 at 11:36 PM

1) Martin turned around and jumped Zimmerman, after Zimmerman lost sight of him and started walking back to the car.

2) Even if Zimmerman pursued Martin, that’s no justification for attacking him – force can only be used against force. Being annoyed that someone is following you does not fall into the category of self defense.

But you already knew all that, you just want to see the Latino hang.

You’re a racist.

Rebar on April 12, 2012 at 12:42 AM

You can’t really compare the two cases. Just saying. Trayvon Martin didn’t kick somebody’s door in and try to steal their television. He didn’t do anything illegal. Somebody simply THOUGHT he was doing something illegal.

In this case, the homeowner KNEW the person was doing something illegal because they KICKED IN HIS DOOR.

Cordell on April 11, 2012 at 11:23 PM

For crap’s sake … I mean, is assault no illegal in the U.S. anymore? Just because I follow someone around doesn’t mean they have the right to start beating me. The twisting of facts to fit your idea of what went down is just unreal.

preallocated on April 12, 2012 at 12:48 AM

The Democrats know their fling with the Hispanic Catholics is a short term thing. Hispanics will gradually realize the Democrat Party is the party of race mongering and immorality, and that just isn’t the way they roll, at least not on balance.

Of course the Democrats will keep the criminally inclined Hispanics, but that is what they always do. Even criminally inclined Americans of British heritage are far more likely to be Democrats.

fadetogray on April 12, 2012 at 12:07 AM

Ah, the myth of naturally socially conservative Hispanics. Blacks are also more socially conservative than the average liberal but that doesn’t stop them from voting 90% Democrat consistently. People vote for the party that they believe will benefit themselves the most. Promises of free government jobs, welfare, healthcare, food stamps, and education are much more appealing to poor Latinos than the GOP message of ‘earn it yourself’.

Jerry Bear on April 12, 2012 at 12:52 AM

http://rochesterhomepage.net/fulltext?nxd_id=142712

http://rochesterhomepage.net/fulltext?nxd_id=142712

Oh Chudi, Damian1967, Libfreeordie…..where are you?

Funny how a black man shooting an unarmed white man in self defense wasn’t such a big deal-while a Quechuan Mestizo shooting a black man in self-defense brings out the lynch mob.

Racists.

Dreadnought on April 12, 2012 at 1:01 AM

This is really a setup (that isn’t a slam dunk but pretty close).

This is merely a repeat of the process that the police went through and then released him, but this time with a jury. From all the evidence available to the first prosecutor, Zimmerman can beat a 2nd degree murder charge (but possibly not a lesser charge). I fully expect at the end of the process that Zimmerman will walk.

The fact that Zimmerman was in custody immediately tells me that he may have suggested this course of action. It serves him in that it calms things down, makes the evidence do to the talking (not the press or Rev. Al), and leaves him a course to where he can be seen in public again with a more remote likelihood that he will be gunned down. I say more likely because some will not be satisfied if (and probably when) he is acquitted.

J_Crater on April 12, 2012 at 2:03 AM

Ah, the myth of naturally socially conservative Hispanics. Blacks are also more socially conservative than the average liberal but that doesn’t stop them from voting 90% Democrat consistently. People vote for the party that they believe will benefit themselves the most. Promises of free government jobs, welfare, healthcare, food stamps, and education are much more appealing to poor Latinos than the GOP message of ‘earn it yourself’.

Jerry Bear on April 12, 2012 at 12:52 AM

That is true if you believe the Hispanics are going to opt for the Democrats’ poverty trap. The evidence is that they are not doing that ….. in the long run.

However, you are correct in the short run (10-20 years), and right now what we do in the short run could kill us all. I was not making an argument that we should turn a blind eye to massive illegal immigration.

So the survival of our Republic and the future success of our country depends on how quickly the rapidly expanding Hispanic population wakes up to how vile the Democrats are.

If this lynching …. er, trial of Zimmerman helps them to wake up to what the Democrats really are just a bit sooner, it could turn out to be a pivotal historical event.

fadetogray on April 12, 2012 at 2:11 AM

It has been my experience those who call others “racist” are usually the one who is truly racist. Just sayin, liberal

Conservative4Ever on April 11, 2012 at 10:55 PM

Of course you are not racist, but you are sure that Martin had to be acting like a thug that night, and deserved to be murdered. You were not there of course, but…but…but you are not racist.

You are a rotting piece of dog crap, and a vile demented human being. I am ashamed to be associated with vermin like you by being a fellow conservative.

Chudi on April 11, 2012 at 11:00 PM

Unless new evidence comes out that hasn’t been seen before, Trayvon Martin is dead because he physically attacked a man who was armed and able to defend himself. Logically, the only person who can really be blamed for Trayvon Martin’s death is … Trayvon Martin.

You’re not doing him or his family a kindness by blaming Zimmerman.

A little bit of thought would tell you that if a man has you down on the ground and is banging your head on the concrete, you’re in danger of death. If you’re in danger of death, you’re entitled to defend yourself. From that position and at that range, there would be no aiming at a foot or leg. You aim center of mass and pull the trigger as often as needed.

Now, I’m perfectly willing to believe that Martin may have intended to hurt Zimmerman but not actually kill him, and may have felt justified in attacking Zimmerman because he felt that he was being followed, and that it may have never occurred to Martin that Martin could ever get hurt, since kids at that age tend to think they’re invulnerable.

But the fact remains that he attacked an armed man aggressively enough that his victim pulled a gun to defend himself, and that’s why Trayvon Martin is now dead.

Unless new evidence is found…

There Goes The Neighborhood on April 12, 2012 at 2:19 AM

I’ve admittedly skipped the last 6-7 pages of comments but I have two items I found particularly noteworthy:

1. There was someone trying to argue the racist point by bringing ties to geography and demographics while discounting ideology and political affiliation. Either it’s in the water or in the mind. The latter is far more compelling, of course.

2. A more disturbing statement, in my opinion, was someone else imploring us to ‘err on the side of the victim’ or such. Isn’t that the whole left’s notion of jurisprudence in a nutshell? I mean it’s precisely that kind of tampering of justice that holds the truth lower on priority list.

Seriously, where does these people come from and why is their thinking so extraordinarily foreign to reason and virtue?

anuts on April 12, 2012 at 2:31 AM

(note: Not read any previous comments, so excuse me if I repeat others)
It may come down to who is the judge and what does he allow the prosecution to get away with while limiting the defense. Also, I hope Zimmerman has a great attorney well schooled in jury selection. You know that criminal POS Holder will be slipping the prosecution all the help he can muster. If justice actually prevails, I’ll be shocked.

swinia sutki on April 12, 2012 at 5:52 AM

My feeling is that the only reason charges are being brought up is because of the state’s fear of rioting by an angry mob.

zoyclem on April 12, 2012 at 7:46 AM

This is just the first stage of intimidation by threatening violence. The prosecutor wants to avoid being the target of the race baiters so she takes it upon herself to take it to trial where it can all be blamed on the jury. If the jury is majority black they will become another OJ jury for fear of reprisals if they turn Zimmerman loose. If they turn him loose of course we’ll get another Rodney King riot where blacks will burn down their own neighborhoods then wonder why businesses will not relocate there. It’s sad but it can all be predicted now. And Zimmerman’s is destined to be the sacrificial lamb.

And the blacks have become what they once abhorred; the new KKK that wishes to string the guy up with no trial if he gets a little uppity.

artman1746 on April 12, 2012 at 7:55 AM

Martin had more right to be in that neighborhood than Zimmerman.

damian1967 on April 11, 2012 at 6:30 PM

I’m sure someone has replied to this, but I just can’t let this go unchallenged.

Listen, Zimmerman lived in the neighborhood. That is, he was a resident of the neighborhood. In other words, his home was in the neighborhood. That is to say, he was domiciled there. Or, to put it in the vernacular, he stayed there.

So, if anyone had the right to be walking around that gated community it was Zimmerman. You know, the guy who lived there, had his residence there, was domiciled there, had his home there and “stayed” there, not a stranger from some neighborhood adjacent to or in proximity to Zimmerman’s home.

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 8:30 AM

Okay. I’ll make one correction, apparently, Martin’s dad lives in the neighborhood with his girlfriend? Or does he live outside the gated community, but nearby?

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 8:33 AM

A distressing aspect of all this is the mainstreaming of race-monger Al Sharpton by such people as Holder and Corey. Not to mention Holder’s brazen refusal to scrutinize the Black Panther threats.

And just now I see on Drudge: Biden Hails Al Franken as ‘Leading Legal Scholar’…

This is Alice’s Wonderland. The world is upside down.

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 8:44 AM

The people that wrote the stand your ground law said it shouldnt apply to the zimmerman case, and he should of been charged.

damian1967 on April 11, 2012 at 6:50 PM

I can’t take it anymore. The correct way to express your statement is as follows: should have. You also have used “would of” and “could of”. The proper phraseology is would have and could have.

I’m not normally a member of the grammar police, but this is more than a typo. It’s criminal destruction of the English language and I can’t read another sentence from you that is phrased so incorrectly. You lose all credibility with me if you can’t even construct a sentence properly.

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 8:44 AM

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 8:33 AM

I read that his father’s girlfriend lived in that neighborhood, but not his father.

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 8:47 AM

SYG law was intended to protect someone who had to use self defense to protect their lives.

It’s pretty obvious it failed in this case since zimmerman will be charged by over zealous prosecutors and have his life ruined at least in the short term. We need a new law that protects people like zimmerman (if the facts remain as they are).

aniptofar on April 12, 2012 at 9:00 AM

Martin had more right to be in that neighborhood than Zimmerman.

damian1967 on April 11, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Damian, you seem to be mentally challenged. Anyone who lived there had a right to be there. I really don’t see someone keeping an eye on someone else with a cell phone stuck to their ear constitutes a threat of any type. Esp. since as zimmerman is talking to the police, he is concerned martin can overhear his address so martin very likely kniew he was talking to the police.

aniptofar on April 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM

Where have I made fun of a life taken away? I can’t help it if you should be convicted of murdering the Queen’s English in the first degree.

Resist We Much on April 11, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Wow. Great minds and all that. I had not seen your post when I accused damian of criminal destruction of the English language. For different reasons, but it’s the same net effect.

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 9:06 AM

aniptofar on April 12, 2012 at 9:00 AM

If the leftists have their way, here are the new laws that will come from this case:
1. Gun control law
2. Anti-vigilante (Neighborhood Watch)law
3. Repeal of Stand Your Ground
4. Restrictions on FL self-defense law

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 9:06 AM

I had a terrible, awful, horrible thought:

There had been burglaries in Zimmerman’s complex, right?

Martin had been caught in the past with things that were arguably burglar’s tools and stolen property before, right?

While Martin wasn’t frequently in Zimmerman’s neighborhood he did have ties there, right?

Have the police gotten to the bottom of the burglaries yet? What if Martin had ties with(or were) the folks who were breaking into the condos? That would be motivation for Martin to jump someone for calling 9-1-1 and following him.

Sekhmet on April 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM

The ridiculous thing is that 99.99% of the time, democrats would be yelling “innocent until proven guilty”. Heck, they’re still trying to free Mumia and others who are OBVIOUSLY guilty. There’s no logic here. (And no – I know liberals are not logical.) Also, the libs are always crying about the death penalty, because that guilty guy could very well be innocent.

But Zimmerman – he’s guilty, we don’t need a trial – fry him.

Free Indeed on April 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM

The only ‘justice’ that the racists on the left are interested in is a ‘fair trail and a quick hanging’. They’re not interested in ‘facts’…which I do not claim to know and neither do they…and no, they are not interested in the ‘process’ or ‘justice’ being done. They’re interested only in racially motivated retaliation and retribution. And thank you, Florida, for giving in to the mob. You set a good example for community stewards everywhere.

PorchDawg on April 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM

I read that his father’s girlfriend lived in that neighborhood, but not his father.

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 8:47 AM

Ah. Okay, but did the father live with the girlfriend?

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM

The clear implication from what I read was that the father lived somewhere else.

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 9:15 AM

Have the police gotten to the bottom of the burglaries yet?

Sekhmet on April 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Good question.

Another good question is who owned the jewelry they found in Martin’s possession and where did these people live?

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Did anyone else find Ms. Coreys reading of the charges strange? I thought she acted as giddy as a school girl. Could it be that preassures were brought to bare by the obamma cabal. Holder praising Sharpton was beyond the pale. Justice officials should be neutral. And, why praise Sharpton he has zero credability. This whole thing makes my head spin. The circumstances make me think that the posters that state this is all part of obammas master plan are correct.

chicken thief on April 12, 2012 at 9:23 AM

err on the side of the victim

Jump to conclusions much? Who is the victim? If the evidence shows (and it appears there are at least 3 corroborating witnesses)that zimmerman was returning to his truck and was attacked by martin then the only person who did wrong was martin. It could be argued that it might have been bad judgement for zimmerman to be carrying his legally owned, licensed and permitted gun but that is blown out of the water when his head is being slammed into the concrete. Something that has been intentionally forgotten(hidden)by the media, martin climbed over a fence into a gated community.

peacenprosperity on April 12, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Did anyone else find Ms. Coreys reading of the charges strange? I thought she acted as giddy as a school girl. Could it be that preassures were brought to bare by the obamma cabal. Holder praising Sharpton was beyond the pale. Justice officials should be neutral. And, why praise Sharpton he has zero credability. This whole thing makes my head spin. The circumstances make me think that the posters that state this is all part of obammas master plan are correct.

chicken thief on April 12, 2012 at 9:23 AM

More than strange. She’s a jerk. And all the fawning over the race baiters and praising atty Crumb who went on record that GZ should be arrested an made to prove his innocence, was crazy. Also the nonsense about praying with TM’s “sweet sweet” parents. Her presser was followed by some strange rally by Sharpton & the NAACP. Team Martin sounds a lot like Oswald Bates.

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 9:32 AM

I’m sick of this meme that it is illegal or wrong to get out of your vehicle. He got out to see where Martin had gone to in order to direct the police. It is not provocation. What is provocation is Martin swinging at him.

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 9:35 AM

The circumstances make me think that the posters that state this is all part of obammas master plan are correct.

chicken thief on April 12, 2012 at 9:23 AM

Not a doubt in my mind that the WH is orchestrating to stoke the racial tensions. Notice how the racial chorus is being amped up with all the usual suspects, such as Sharpton, Jackson, Louis Farrakhan, Jeremiah Wright, Black Panthers, etc. Not to mention that Øbama went out of his way to inject himself into the case with a racially charged message.

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM

The fact that Zimmerman was in custody immediately tells me that he may have suggested this course of action. It serves him in that it calms things down, makes the evidence do to the talking (not the press or Rev. Al), and leaves him a course to where he can be seen in public again with a more remote likelihood that he will be gunned down. I say more likely because some will not be satisfied if (and probably when) he is acquitted.

J_Crater on April 12, 2012 at 2:03 AM

It’s great to read insightful takes on this situation.

thuja on April 12, 2012 at 9:38 AM

martin climbed over a fence into a gated community.

peacenprosperity on April 12, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Hmmmm, didn’t know that little tidbit. Thanks.

If he was there for a legit reason, such as visiting his father’s girlfriend, why didn’t he use the gate?

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 9:38 AM

If the leftists have their way, here are the new laws that will come from this case:
1. Gun control law
2. Anti-vigilante (Neighborhood Watch)law
3. Repeal of Stand Your Ground
4. Restrictions on FL self-defense law

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 9:06 AM

At the same time the Democrats claim to be concerned about bullying. What they really want to do is make life easier on the bullies by taking guns out of the hands of the law abiding, deter victims of crime from organizing, force the bullied to retreat and to deprive the victims of violence of the right to defend themselves.

One thing you can always count on with the Democrats: They will always come down squarely on the side of the scum. Always, once you strip away the lies.

fadetogray on April 12, 2012 at 9:52 AM

damian1967 on April 11, 2012 at 9:40 PM

Where to start. . .. First of all Martin isn’t the accused. Zimmerman is. Since you’re so concerned with Martin’s “innocence”, the presumption of Zimmerman’s innocence means that the State of Florida has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman wasn’t acting in self-defense at the time he shot Trayvon Martin. Part of that procedure, I would imagine, will be to attempt to prove to the trier of fact (judge or jury) that Martin was not acting as the aggressor, was not beating Zimmerman so heavily that Zimmerman was in immediate fear for his own life when he pulled the trigger.

So, to put in terms you apparently like to use, the prosecution has the burden of showing that Martin was “innocent” as you like to call him. Zimmerman has no burden to prove his own innocence. His attorneys will act to establish reasonable doubt and destroy the prosecution’s case. Since neither you nor I have all the evidence at hand, let’s just rely on the rule of law rather than the emotions of “men” (used in a generic sense, lest someone get their panties in a wad for being sexist). It’s what I swore an oath to do when I got admitted to the State Bar of Michigan and I’m damn well not going to stop now just to satisfy some mob mentality.

Real easy: The burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is always on the prosecution. The defendant has no burden to prove his/her innocence, except, it appears, on this thread.

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 9:54 AM

this comports with what i’ve always gotten from the known facts of the case: bringing a gun to a fist-fight = homocide.

what i’ll never get is the left’s rush to frame a latino as a white supremacist.

eh on April 12, 2012 at 9:58 AM

This is really a setup (that isn’t a slam dunk but pretty close).

This is merely a repeat of the process that the police went through and then released him, but this time with a jury. From all the evidence available to the first prosecutor, Zimmerman can beat a 2nd degree murder charge (but possibly not a lesser charge). I fully expect at the end of the process that Zimmerman will walk.

The fact that Zimmerman was in custody immediately tells me that he may have suggested this course of action. It serves him in that it calms things down, makes the evidence do to the talking (not the press or Rev. Al), and leaves him a course to where he can be seen in public again with a more remote likelihood that he will be gunned down. I say more likely because some will not be satisfied if (and probably when) he is acquitted.

J_Crater on April 12, 2012 at 2:03 AM

Good points. In fact, isn’t Exhibit 1 in Zimmerman’s defense the original processing when he was taken into custody, processed, and eventually a decision made to release without charges? Every single person involved can be called to testify about their original decisions, and then asked if they stand by those decisions. If they don’t, they can be grilled on why they changed their mind. This includes the DA that determined that night that no charges could be made.

slickwillie2001 on April 12, 2012 at 10:05 AM

I’m willing to bet, that’s one she wishes she could have a “Mulligan” on.

waterytart on April 11, 2012 at 10:13 PM

*waves* Hey, fellow “Detroiter”! With you all the way on this one. You nailed it.

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Chudi-

Your posts have been one long string of assumptions, assertions and accusations not founded in facts.

You’re either a weak mind or are so blinded by your emotions that you aren’t thinking straight. Hopefully the night gave you a chance to cool down.

BadgerHawk on April 12, 2012 at 10:07 AM

I had a terrible, awful, horrible thought:

Sekhmet on April 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Yes, you did.
But you have plenty of company here.

verbaluce on April 12, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Chudi-

Your posts have been one long string of assumptions, assertions and accusations not founded in facts.

You’re either a weak mind or are so blinded by your emotions that you aren’t thinking straight. Hopefully the night gave you a chance to cool down.

BadgerHawk on April 12, 2012 at 10:07 AM

She’s a Frumbag.

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 10:22 AM

and you a blatant racist. How imbecilic can you be to be calling me a lyncher while defended the cold blooded murder of an unarmed teenager. Hey moron, you are the real lyncher and racist to boot.

Chudi on April 11, 2012 at 10:52 PM

Enough crap for one thread. You have no proof that Zimmerman murdered (a legal term of art, as has been pointed out earlier) Martin in cold blood, tepid blood, hot blood or room temperature blood. You exist to race bait, seeking to twist words into exclamations of bigotry.

To call RWM racist when she is pointing out THE LAW is beyond disingenuous. It’s flat-out incendiary and a heinous lie.

When the evidence comes out in this case we will be in a better position to comment on who did what during that awful encounter. Keep your phony moralizing to yourself in the meantime.

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 10:23 AM

I just had conversations with 2 different people, who affirmed that the Hispanic population in the US is going to weigh in soon, big time. They’re talking Telemundo, and Univision.
waterytart on April 11, 2012 at 11:01 PM

Been wondering when the Hispanic population would make their positions known. It will be interesting to hear how they respond to this pre-trial conviction of an Hispanic male.

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 10:28 AM

To them Trayvon(an average immature stupid teenager) was black thug, which means he deserved to die. Black people in general are thugs, savages, and animals who only know to riot.

Magnus on April 11, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Awfully big brush you’re painting with there, Picasso.

BadgerHawk on April 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Latino organizations dismiss George Zimmerman, question his ethnicity:

But if George Zimmerman was hoping to find support in the Latino community, he should look elsewhere.

“The Latino community joins the African-American community and other communities in condemning George Zimmerman as what he is – a murderer and a racist,” Roberto Lovato, co-founder of the online Latino advocacy organization Presente.org, told The Daily Caller.

The group is acting on Trayvon’s behalf. Presente.org has joined with Color of Change to petition for the arrest of Martin’s murderer.

So, La Raza is more a subsidiary of the Dem party than an advocate for Hispanics.

(Just like NOW and women.)

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 10:39 AM

So, La Raza is more a subsidiary of the Dem party than an advocate for Hispanics.

(Just like NOW and women.)

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 10:39 AM

More rushing to judgement, I see. Nice. Thanks for the info.

totherightofthem on April 12, 2012 at 10:45 AM

News: Trayvon’s Mom Says “Shooting Was Accident”

slickwillie2001 on April 12, 2012 at 10:46 AM

News: Trayvon’s Mom Says “Shooting Was Accident”

slickwillie2001 on April 12, 2012 at 10:46 AM

She’s addicted to that “sweet sweet” media spotlight.

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM

I have no sympathy for him. None at all. If you murder a 17 yr old unarmed boy in cold blood…I really won’t give a damn what the hell happens to you. He is a murderer, and he deserves a fate worse than death.

Chudi on April 11, 2012 at 10:02 PM

You’re the one convicting without a trial. And your subsequent rants mark you as a hypocrite. As for the lie that you are a conservative: you are nothing more than a concern troll here to start a flame war.

zoyclem on April 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM

You are really a disgusting vile human being. You have to manufacture a fictitious rape, to justify murdering a kid in cold blood. You are pure EVIL.

Chudi on April 11, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Is this for real? Off. The. Rails.

DrStock on April 11, 2012 at 10:12 PM

Never seen this “chudi” creature before. Evidently, it was let in during the last open reg; and has been biding its time until an article suitable to its purposes came along.
I don’t believe that I’ve ever seen such a vile creature on HotAir before, either. Perhaps the ban hammer could drop on that one soon. I’ve no doubt that it will cross the line from simply ‘vile’ into ‘making threats’ territory in short order.

Oh. And it’s no Conservative, either. Just a typical leftist/liberal racist. No matter what it avers.

Solaratov on April 12, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Since DBear has a habit of smearing people who don’t share his silly political views as racist, and refuses to admit later that he even made the accusations, let alone admit he was wrong to do so, I have a message for the punk, and anyone else who throws around that nasty smear.

False accusations of racism are socially unacceptable. Anyone who makes them should be shunned by decent people, until and unless they mend their vile ways and make proper apologies.

And better be careful about where you make those smears. The real world isn’t as safe as mommy’s basement. Accusations of racism in the real world can result in public humiliation, if not worse.

I have never asked Ed to ban anyone here, and frankly I would not have banned some that he has banned. But these vile smears of racism are worse, in my view, than some of the posts that have gotten people banned.

novaculus on April 11, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Yep.

Bmore on April 12, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Since I really am a citizen of “Hooterville” and not wily in the ways of the internet, how do we get “La Raza” involved in this? If they’re not willing to take up for the cause of this man, Mr Zimmerman, they are eithr racist themselves, or liars at best.

waterytart on April 11, 2012 at 10:32 PM

La Raza is not about to set one foot off the plantation to defend George Zimmermann. They are making too much money from the government treasury; and don’t want to upset that apple cart.
They know which side their bread is buttered on.

Solaratov on April 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM

novaculus on April 11, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Yep.

Bmore on April 12, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Indeed.

Solaratov on April 12, 2012 at 12:20 PM

News: Trayvon’s Mom Says “Shooting Was Accident”

slickwillie2001 on April 12, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Yeah, I saw that. What’s up here? Seems like a total reversal to me.

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 12:21 PM

They [La Raza] are making too much money from the government treasury…
They know which side their bread is buttered on.

Solaratov on April 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Yep, that probably explains it.

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Magnus on April 11, 2012 at 10:08 PM

I know, right? It’s unbelievable just how much those calling for Zimmerman to be lynched would fit in at stormfront.com.

NotCoach on April 12, 2012 at 12:23 PM

News: Trayvon’s Mom Says “Shooting Was Accident”

slickwillie2001 on April 12, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Yeah, I saw that. What’s up here? Seems like a total reversal to me.

petefrt on April 12, 2012 at 12:21 PM

I’m pretty sure Al Shlapton and company will be setting her down for a good talking-to. She’s putting the huckster machine at risk.

slickwillie2001 on April 12, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Never seen this “chudi” creature before. Evidently, it was let in during the last open reg; and has been biding its time until an article suitable to its purposes came along.

Solaratov on April 12, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Uh, no. I always laugh when people try to use length of time posting as some sort of argument. She has been here many many years. She’s a crazy and obnoxious rino and frum supporter. I don’t like her but this is the first time I have personally seen her go this far off the rails. Maybe, other people have seen other times, but I haven’t.

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Oh. OK. I’ve just never run across it before. That must have been a run of good luck for me. :-)
(I could have gone a lot longer without reading its vile spewage, though.)

Solaratov on April 12, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Don’t worry… she’ll be back. :)

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 2:36 PM

I dont know if hes guilty or not and I look forward to all facts coming out in court. My only beef with this was that he was never arrested and I didnt think that was fair. If a thorough investigation was done and he was cleared thats one thing. But for him to be released with none of the normal checks just didnt pass the smell test. Hopefully we can get 100% of the facts on record and put this behind us.

Politricks on April 12, 2012 at 2:36 PM

With so many so called “facts” out there I dont get how anyone can argue one way or the other. I think we should all welcome a trail to get everything out in the open. I see a lot of posters here claim that Martin attacked Zimmerman after being followed around. That’s Zimmerman’s story. Martins girlfriend told a different story. Are either of them a fact?

NONE OF US KNOW.

So instead of pretending we do why not just be happy there will be a trail to clairfy things?

Politricks on April 12, 2012 at 2:43 PM

MASSIVE mistake by the Prosecution! One of the requirements for 2nd Degree Murder is proving Zimmerman was hunting down Martin with the plan of murdering him. The 911 tapes contradict that. Even Martin’s own mother came out today to say SHE believes the shooting was an accident. There is no way they will be able to prove 2nd degree murder.

easyt65 on April 12, 2012 at 2:52 PM

Ok – scratch that entire post – was thinking of the wrong thing – Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as an intentional killing that is NOT premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable “heat of passion”. Sorry, Zimmerman – you are going to jail, if nothing else but to prevent the riots that will happen if you go free. :(

easyt65 on April 12, 2012 at 2:55 PM

That’s Zimmerman’s story. Martins girlfriend told a different story. Are either of them a fact?

NONE OF US KNOW.

So instead of pretending we do why not just be happy there will be a trail to clairfy things?

Politricks on April 12, 2012 at 2:43 PM

You mean the chick who never called the cops or his parent that night, went shoe shopping the next day, and waited 3 weeks to come forward? Yeah, she’s credible. lol!

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 3:21 PM

So instead of pretending we do why not just be happy there will be a trail to clairfy things?

Politricks on April 12, 2012 at 2:43 PM

You mean the chick who never called the cops or his parent that night, went shoe shopping the next day, and waited 3 weeks to come forward? Yeah, she’s credible. lol!

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 3:21 PM

Lay off, dude. Personally, I’m always happy there’s a trail to clarify things. Otherwise I’d be lost in the woods more often than usual.

swinia sutki on April 12, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Lay off, dude. Personally, I’m always happy there’s a trail to clarify things. Otherwise I’d be lost in the woods more often than usual.

swinia sutki on April 12, 2012 at 3:43 PM

You lay off, dude. This isn’t about making you happy. Nothing I posted was untrue. His so called gf left a nice internet trail (see how I used that word correctly?), which someone downloaded before it was deleted, complete with photos. She went shopping the day after he died and also went to school. And after a whole 2 weeks of mourning she has a new “man.”

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 3:57 PM

Florida investigators say in an affidavit that George Zimmerman profiled, confronted, then fatally shot Trayvon Martin.

THis is what I was getting to yesterday, if this is true, then Zimmerman was the agressor, and Martin was defending himself. Which he had every right to do if he was being targeted and accussed of doing something he was not, by an armed neighborhood watchman that had no legal right to confront and or accuse Martin.

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 5:24 PM

During this time, the affidavit says, “Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening. The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn’t know why.”

When Martin tried to run home, “Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin,” it says.

“Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued,” it says.

A person’s cries for help could be heard in recorded 911 calls, the affidavit says, and Martin’s mother “identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin’s voice.”

So if this in fact true, Zimmerman was the aggressor, and Martin got killed for “Standing his Ground”

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11164328-prosecutors-contend-george-zimmerman-provoked-confrontation-with-trayvon-martin?lite

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Florida investigators say in an affidavit that George Zimmerman profiled, confronted, then fatally shot Trayvon Martin.

THis is what I was getting to yesterday, if this is true, then Zimmerman was the agressor, and Martin was defending himself. Which he had every right to do if he was being targeted and accussed of doing something he was not, by an armed neighborhood watchman that had no legal right to confront and or accuse Martin.

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 5:24 PM

And the wit for this is the gf who did not call 911, did not call his parents, went shoe shopping the next day, a few days later, tweets, “RIP trayvon I’ll miss my best friend” and then posts a pix of her favorite designer loafers, and only comes forward 3 weeks after the shooting through an affidavit prepared by Crumb. LOL!

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 5:38 PM

Oh, yeah, she wasn’t there, either.

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 5:42 PM

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Once again, as it has been explained more than once – you cannot beat someone up just because they were following you.

You can only use force when force is used on you, someone following you might be annoying, but you simply cannot break their nose, knock them down, and start beating their head on concrete for it.

Rebar on April 12, 2012 at 5:44 PM

A person’s cries for help could be heard in recorded 911 calls, the affidavit says, and Martin’s mother “identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin’s voice.”

Yawn. And the father said it was not his voice initially and then later changed his story.

However, the one good eyewitness said from the get go that the guy on the bottom, wearing red and getting beat by the guy in gray/white, was the one screaming for help.

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Rebar on April 12, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Corey tried to equate this to a husband slapping his wife and the wife shooting him. How she can equate a broken nose and slamming his head on the ground resulting in lacerations to a slap, is ridiculous.

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 5:49 PM

One has to wonder, how many times a person needs to have their head smashed against concrete, before they can act to save their own life?

Or, for the “crime” of following someone, they get carte blanche to crush your head until you’re dead?

Rebar on April 12, 2012 at 5:57 PM

Rebar on April 12, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Zimmerman did not have a broken nose.

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 6:05 PM

One has to wonder, how many times a person needs to have their head smashed against concrete, before they can act to save their own life?

Until you’re semi or unconscious according to Corey. One of GZ’s relatives said that in the struggle, his gun was exposed, and TM grabbed it.

Or, for the “crime” of following someone, they get carte blanche to crush your head until you’re dead?

Rebar on April 12, 2012 at 5:57 PM

Crime of “felony dissing.”

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Zimmerman did not have a broken nose.

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 6:05 PM

The police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose. His lawyer said later that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose.

Yes, he did, as well as other injuries that corroborate his testimony.

Rebar on April 12, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 5:42 PM

Zimmerman LEFT his vehicle after he was told by the police that he did not need to follow the person.

Zimmerman was suppose to be at the club house, but was no where near it.

The “eye witness” that you said saw Martin on top, does not prove anything that Martin charged Zimmerman, it only shows that he was winning the fight.

IF Zimmerman provoked the fight, and Martin happend to be winning, that is not stand your ground defense, Martin was defending himself and happen to win till Zimmerman pulled his gun.

How was Martin to know that Zimmerman was a watchman?

Martin was doing NOTHING wrong to be confronted, he was walking home.

You people are dead in the head to still defend Zimmerman, it is fact he left his truck and contronted Martin, YOU NOR I know what was said or happen, but we do know that Zimmerman did in fact have some negative comments about “These asses always get away” or something like that.

That would point to him trying to keep him from getting away, which would be unlawful detention by Zimmerman, and Martin allowed to defend himself.

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 6:13 PM

Rebar on April 12, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Show me where, other than him claiming to have a broken nose, that he did in fact have one? I can not find any proof of that.

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 6:14 PM

The lawyer for George Zimmerman, charged with murder in the death of unarmed black teen Trayvon Martin, said that the teenager’s death “weighs on” Zimmerman and suggested his client might apologize to Martin’s family.

Why apologize if he isnt guilty of anything?

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 6:15 PM

Local law enforcement in Sanford, Florida didn’t question the girlfriend after Martin’s death, even though her parents called them to say she wanted to come in for an interview.

Why? Police screwed this investigation up completely.

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 6:18 PM

[snip same old BS comments that have been answered and refuted many many times already in this thread.]

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 6:13 PM

Seriously, how many times are you going to keep repeating the same BS?

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Show me where, other than him claiming to have a broken nose, that he did in fact have one? I can not find any proof of that.

damian1967 on April 12, 2012 at 6:14 PM

Show me where TM has a hole in his chest? Where’s the autopsy report and photos? Produce them or it never happened! lol!

Blake on April 12, 2012 at 6:20 PM

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