Union argues that Indiana right-to-work law infringes on free, er, subsidized speech
posted at 9:16 am on April 10, 2012 by Ed Morrissey
Give the Union of Operating Engineers full marks for creativity — and perhaps an even higher grade for unintended transparency. The Indiana union has filed suit to block the state’s new right-to-work law, claiming that making dues payments voluntary rather than a requirement for working in a union shop infringes on their First Amendment right to free speech. How? Why, it cuts their funding for free speech:
Indiana’s new right-to-work law should be struck down because it infringes upon unions’ free speech rights by depriving them of the dues that fund their political speech, attorneys for a union challenging the law contend, citing the U.S. Supreme Court’s so-called Citizens United ruling that eased restrictions on corporate campaign spending.
Attorneys for the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 150 argue in a court brief that Indiana’s new law, which allows workers to not pay union dues even if a union bargains on their behalf, interferes with the union’s free speech rights and “impinges on this fundamental right of union membership.” …
“In this case, the state of Indiana restricted a channel of speech-supporting finance,” the union brief maintains. “The Union legitimately utilizes dues money collected through the agency shop provisions in its collective bargaining agreements, in part, to finance political speech The Indiana Right to Work law prohibits agency shop agreements, and that prohibition restricts a channel through which speech-supporting finance might flow.”
Well, then the union infringed on my free speech by never advertising on Captain’s Quarters back in the day! See how this works? Free speech, according to this view, depends on funding. What’s next? A government mandate to buy a newspaper subscription? After all, if you don’t get a dead tree delivered to your doorstep each day, you may be infringing on a newspaper’s rights to free speech and liberal editorial policies! (Wait — maybe I shouldn’t give this administration any more ideas on mandates …)
Here’s an in interesting question to pose in response to this argument. Even if one accepted for argument’s sake that the First Amendment guarantees an income stream to fund whatever speech one wants to make, what about the employee’s right to free association, which is implied in the First Amendment’s right to peaceable assembly, as noted in a number of Supreme Court cases? Some employees may not want to associate with the union and participate in their speech; why should they be forced into an association with them? It seems to me that this would be a stronger argument than the “free speech requires an income stream” argument.
We’ve noted this a number of times when people mistake private editorial choices for infringement of the right to free speech. The right to free speech does not include the right to publication, or of revenue either resulting from or in service to that speech. The act of refusing to join does not keep the union from expressing itself. It just means that they may not have access to the best platforms from which to deliver that speech, which puts them in the same boat as everyone else. Perhaps they should spend more time convincing people to support them voluntarily than in getting courts to forcibly extract cash from workers in order to pursue their own political purposes.
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facepalm
mythicknight on March 30, 2013 at 10:07 AM
This is going to be ugly.
SWalker on March 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM
That’s the thing, it has nothing to do with “Northern Aggression” here, it’s their own city council.
thebrokenrattle on March 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM
Free speech? Are you kidding? That’s reserved only for certain groups chosen by the media. You know — “Blinded by the white” and all that.
If MSNBC has reporters among the protesters asking questions, I wonder how many will ask, “Are you a supporter of the Tea Party?” Or, “Do you belong to the NRA?”
Forget the concept of free speech. That entire notion will be ignored by the MSM in favor of vilifying anyone who isn’t part of liberal groupthink.
Liam on March 30, 2013 at 10:10 AM
hotair defending the KKK…I’ve seen it all. *sigh*
nonpartisan on March 30, 2013 at 10:11 AM
Good luck Jazz. And God bless. :)
I mean it.
It’s just — I’ve already fought myself bloody on gay marriage, and on abortion, and . . . a few things I know are there and can’t remember . . . gun rights! That was one . . .
. . . anyway, my mom’s really old . . . and I should probably
*slides out side door*
Axe on March 30, 2013 at 10:12 AM
You have all the comprehension skills of an armadillo.
katy the mean old lady on March 30, 2013 at 10:13 AM
Compare and contrast, the KKK complaining about the renaming of famous landmarks and President Obama, Dancing in the ruins admiring his own handy work.
SWalker on March 30, 2013 at 10:13 AM
No, it’s not. Are you even black, “Jazz Shaw”?
nonpartisan on March 30, 2013 at 10:14 AM
Why you insult the armadillo like that?
SWalker on March 30, 2013 at 10:14 AM
…how many Democrats will be missing from DC?
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:15 AM
hey let’s welcome nazis and protect their rights too! Let every hate group come to America where we’ll protect them as well! *rolls eyes*
nonpartisan on March 30, 2013 at 10:15 AM
Your racism is showing…
SWalker on March 30, 2013 at 10:15 AM
Of course the Klan should be allowed to rally. People forget that a majority of able bodied white men were Klan members in counties all over the country, Michigan, Illinois, Ohio and Indiana in particular, until World War II. And after World War II the southern Klan just became the “White Citizens Councils.” These days we have White Student Unions at places like Towson University attending and getting support at CPAC.
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013 at 10:17 AM
It is my deepest hope that progressivism/liberalism/socialism will be met in the future with the same disgust and derision that the KKK and the German Nazi party is today. They are equally evil, equally intolerant, equally bigoted. The KKK could only have dreamed about doing to the black community what liberalism has done — totally and completely destroyed it, and then co-opted that very community to continue its own destruction and degradation.
Rational Thought on March 30, 2013 at 10:17 AM
…that’s probably you carrying the flag noforeskin. *spit*
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:18 AM
You’re right. Armadillos have the smarts to turn into volleyballs when the do something stupid.
Apologies little guys. Now stop digging up my lawn.
katy the mean old lady on March 30, 2013 at 10:18 AM
Why shouldnt we allow the Nazis when we allow people to reenact and celebrate the Confederacy who went to war to protect their right to enslave black people and to protect the capital earned from their free labor. Lots of Americans identify those men as “heroes.”
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013 at 10:19 AM
The KKK are just like you, they have opinions and ideologies that just plain suck, but, just like you they are allowed to have opinions and ideologies that suck. You can vote to take away their rights, the second you surrender your own and not one second sooner.
SWalker on March 30, 2013 at 10:20 AM
It’s called protecting free speech. The horror!
katy the mean old lady on March 30, 2013 at 10:20 AM
I lived in Memphis for 6 years. The racial politics there are a festering wound and uglier than anywhere I’ve ever been. The black run city caused massive white flight to the surrounding suburbs and then the city council proceeded to call Memphis area whites “racists” for fleeing.
Memphis city schools were so bad and so in need of funds that the city tried for years to force the merger of city schools with Shelby County schools.
They finally did and now whites are fleeing to neighboring counties and south across the border to MS.
Memphis is widely known among local whites as “Memphrica”.
It’s a crap hole of a place. The failures of the black city government are so widespread it doesn’t surprise me at all that they would do something like this to distract the public from their failures and stir up even more racial hatred.
Stay away from Memphis, it’s on its way to becoming Detroit of the South. If FedEx, where I worked, were to ever leave, Memphis would die.
Charlemagne on March 30, 2013 at 10:20 AM
Don’t forget douche bag, the KKK were exclusively Democrats.
SWalker on March 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM
At this point, the Klan is as much a joke as it started out as (seriously, it was founded as a joke).
Count to 10 on March 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM
I hope the counter demonstration is bigger.
lexhamfox on March 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM
“If the First Amendment will protect a scumbag like me, it will protect all of you.” – Larry Flynt
myiq2xu on March 30, 2013 at 10:22 AM
As a proud Southerner all I have to say to that comment is F*ck you. You’re welcome to come on down and bring that up in public.
Charlemagne on March 30, 2013 at 10:23 AM
Remember who Libfree IS:
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:24 AM
Well, if the Klan thinks they’re important symbols, then who are we to disagree?
But symbols of what, exactly? To some a period in history when patriots stood up for what they thought was best for their country. For others, a time when darkie knew his place.
Which do you think the Klan is interested in? If it’s for the proud period of Southern Life, then let them remove their costumes and show us their pride. Otherwise, all we can do is surmise their hate.
We’ve taken away their midnight lynchings and burning crosses, and now they paint these southern heros with their brush of fear and malingering hatred.
Maybe this does bring the plight of these memorials to light, but not in any way that benefits history.
danielreyes on March 30, 2013 at 10:24 AM
…what OWS camp are you posting from?
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:24 AM
Skokie, IL, 1977: National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie, 432 U.S. 43 (1977). Note, too, the ACLU backed the Nazis in that case, represented by civil rights attorney Burton Joseph. He also defended the protesters at the Democrat National Convention in 1968.
Hint: the Nazis won the case. Seems on top of your failure of reading comprehension, you know less about many more things than you think you do.
Pffft!
Liam on March 30, 2013 at 10:24 AM
WHO Libfree IS:
I think 16 should be the age of consent when it comes to sexual activity. I think 18 for voting. I think 21 for gun ownership, alcohol, cigarettes and marijuana (which should be legal).
libfreeordie on November 20, 2012 at 6:27 PM
So libfree quit your self righteous bullshite.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:25 AM
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM
The last ime I heard about a KKK rally it was being held in Hightstown, NJ.
katy the mean old lady on March 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM
Heh. Yeah. I travel to the North occasionally, and I’ve yet to meet anyone who wants to burn the South. But I do talk to some people who think we’re all racists.
Don’t get me wrong, some of my best friends are Northerners.
Curtiss on March 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM
You need to learn your history. The northern Klan was Republican.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1WMBiYSCOM
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM
Thread winner!
Liam on March 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM
…who would have thought the black bigot would come charging in on this thread?
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:27 AM
Yes you lack comprehension of the post above as well as the comments. You also don’t know or understand our Constitution.
You’re as dumb as our posters get.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:27 AM
Freedom of speech; yes.
The Klan is despicable. But they have freedom of speech.
So does NAMBLA, unfortunately.
And LGBT.
Oh, and Christians.
davidk on March 30, 2013 at 10:27 AM
The kkk, democrat gotv apparatus since 1865.
tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2013 at 10:28 AM
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013
–
Libfree is a pervert.
Remember who Libfree IS.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:28 AM
Maybe a dead, bloated-in-the-blistering-summer-sun armadillo, but not a live one.
Aviator on March 30, 2013 at 10:28 AM
Better them than NAACP, the Black Congressional Caucus, the Council of La Raza, CAIR, Black Panthers, etc. Don’t Whites have interests and rights as well?
Bulletchaser on March 30, 2013 at 10:29 AM
Why are you upset about the facts of history. These things are a matter of public record. The Confederacy was formed for one purpose, to stop the federal threat to slaveownership. If you’re proud of that, that’s on you. But don’t be confused about what you’re proud of.
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013 at 10:30 AM
Add Atlanta to the list.
Punchenko on March 30, 2013 at 10:31 AM
I don’t know if my Illinois great-grandmother was a Republican or not but she was a Klansman. She also thought Eisenhower was a communist.
Your history lesson is noted, and the Klan gets a pass since it was Republican.
davidk on March 30, 2013 at 10:32 AM
Lie #1
Bulletchaser on March 30, 2013 at 10:32 AM
Proud.
/
Remember who this sick freak is.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:32 AM
I’m a little surprised the Klan is even still being considered relevant!
pilamaye on March 30, 2013 at 10:32 AM
And yet you are posting here.
Curtiss on March 30, 2013 at 10:33 AM
…are you still putting flowers on the grave of Cornelius Calvin Sales grave?………..oh?….you would know him as Robert Carlyle Byrd!
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:33 AM
1. If Free Speech means you can burn an American flag with impunity, the KKK can rally all it wants.
2. The citizens of Memphis, and their elected representatives, are free to name their publicly-owned parks whatever they want.
3. A police department that protects only the groups whose message their masters approve of might as well swap their blue shirts for brown shirts.
4. Nothing evokes liberal troll hypocrisy on this forum as well as stories like this.
Knott Buyinit on March 30, 2013 at 10:33 AM
Of course. But why would white people need a group to protect their rights when white people have never been systematically denied their rights by the state. Unless you’re speaking exclusively about white women, and they have feminist organizations. Or perhaps you’re thinking of poor whites, who developed labor unions (which Republicans have tried to stamp out). But when have white people had their rights stripped on a racial basis? The only people who talk about whites experiencing racial discrimination are those folks who think that Warren Court decisions and the 1964 Civil Rights Act violated white people’s right to state enforced racial segregation.
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013 at 10:33 AM
Someone said this a few months ago, “Not all republicans are racist however all racists are republicans”
I will bet you $10k that all these Klans Men are tea party republicans tired of how “big” the government is getting.
HotAirLib on March 30, 2013 at 10:34 AM
When I drove for Covenant Transport we were told do not ever park your rig overnight in the Atlanta area.
They had the truck GPS programmed to alert HQ if you were stationary more than a couple hours there.
davidk on March 30, 2013 at 10:35 AM
We Do!
The NAACP, the Black Congressional Caucus, the Council of La Raza, CAIR, Black Panthers, etc, all have a voice. Don’t Whites have interests and rights as well? Are they to be shut out and Rev. Wright the only one allowed to speak?
Bulletchaser on March 30, 2013 at 10:35 AM
Why not? Aren’t the new black panthers protected, by the federal government no less? How about the Southern Poverty Law Center, the nation of islam, and la raza – all racist hate groups, just because they hate white people doesn’t mean they’re not just as hateful as the KKK.
Rebar on March 30, 2013 at 10:35 AM
Yes, poor, rural Arkansas farm families like mine fought to allow a few rich plantation owners to keep their slaves. Yep, that’s it.
You know little of history if you don’t know the causes of the war, or the opinions on the causes from both sides.
Lincoln didn’t go to war against the South to free the slaves but to keep the South from leaving the Union. That’s common knowledge. Or so I assumed.
Charlemagne on March 30, 2013 at 10:36 AM
Ever heard of affirmative action?
Aviator on March 30, 2013 at 10:37 AM
Good points.
—-
You just destroyed your own argument.
Good job Pervertfessor.
You advocate for preying on children. I find you revolting.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:37 AM
…was there a really fat guy with a hood…that looked like he was wearing a tent?
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:37 AM
Someone said this a few months ago, “Not all republicans are racist however all racists are republicans”
I will bet you $10k that all these Klans Men are tea party republicans tired of how “big” the government is getting.
HotAirLib on March 30, 2013 at 10:34 AM
I bet you are a rich white privedged woman who married for the money.
see how that works?
tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2013 at 10:37 AM
The MSM love events like this. Wanna bet they’ll be all over this as a top story of the day. As I said above, if they get to question and KKK advocates, the questions will center on connections to the Tea Party and NRA. The media already know the standard answers to the question of why Kluckers hate blacks and Jews, so that’s boring. But trying to connect the Klan to other conservative groups is tailor-made; the only thing the media would like more is another rapid loon with a gun shooting up a school to score liberal political points.
Liam on March 30, 2013 at 10:38 AM
You know what would be fun? If the southern Hot Air posters would truthfully respond to this question: Was your grandfather a Republican or a Democrat?
That would be a delightful poll to get a straight answer to. Because it is always so interesting to see contemporary Republican deride and hate on and villify southern Democrats from Reconstruction until Nixon, but I suspect that over 90% of southern white republicans are the descendents of Democrats, i.e. the very people you are villifying. I suspect that an honest response to that question would also elicit statements like “well it was the time.” Or “my grandparents were just like all the other white people in their community.” Or “well I don’t think they participated in a lynching.” It would be curious. Are any southern HA posters willing to be honest and answer that question?
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013 at 10:38 AM
Let’s roll.
Of course you know you cannot prove anything …you’re just dishonest…like most liberals.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:38 AM
….HotLips!…we’re talking hoods here…not knee pads!…keep your head down!
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:39 AM
And as you infer: They aren’t.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:39 AM
Affirmative Action, Set asides, Minority only contracts, Racial Preferences, news censoring black crime, and on and on.
Bulletchaser on March 30, 2013 at 10:39 AM
Your probably get a majority of Southerners to agree to peacefully leave the USA. Would you support it?
Charlemagne on March 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM
At least you admit you support child predators. Congrats!/
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM
No nimrod. I distinguished between discrimination based on gender (which feminism addresses) and class (which labor unions address) from state discrimination based upon race, which white people do not experience.
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM
What’s the prob? They should just rename everything after Cesar Chavez like all the other cities do.
juliesa on March 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM
That is really rich coming from a racist like you.
Aviator on March 30, 2013 at 10:41 AM
But that’s all ok, cause, well white folks are all the devil…
SWalker on March 30, 2013 at 10:41 AM
Those don’t count in the preverts little head.
You had to like how he killed his own argument as it was. What a joke.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:41 AM
Why is it that when the blacks take over a city, such as Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, etc., everything goes completely down the drain? They destroy every city they infiltrate. It’s frustrating and infuriating at the same time. They’re in the business of destroying school systems, as well.
MustLoveBlogs on March 30, 2013 at 10:41 AM
Can I call ‘em or what? And HAL isn’t in the MSM, far as I know.
Liam on March 30, 2013 at 10:42 AM
No, we are not banning posters who apparently think I’m supporting the KKK. Hot Air, Town Hall and their affiliates are not responsible for the reading comprehension skills of the readership.
- The management
Jazz Shaw on March 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM
Explain to me why 25% or more of most workers earnings are taken from them and handed over to someone else? That is slavery. Where a man does not own himself, someone else does. Every slave has always been able to keep some of their own production, it is how they were clothed, housed and fed and sometimes educated. We have slavery today and have had it for 75 years.
astonerii on March 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM
….my folks came over on the boat after WWII…and you don’t have an honest bone in your body!…well…maybe… the one you whack!
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM
Don’t forget that the Klan is an extreme right wing organization.
Like the Catholic Church, the TEA Party, the ADL, returning war veterans, bitter clingers, your mama, etc.
davidk on March 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM
You are an imbecile, you’ve obviously never seen what happens when a White Person enters a predominately Black neighbourhood, Like Watt’s or Compton.
SWalker on March 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM
My grandfather moved to California before I was born and died in 2006. I never asked him to what political party he belonged.
My ancestors were an AR, MO border family and fought on both sides in the war. My direct ancestor fought for the Union as did two of his five brothers. The other three brothers fought for the CSA. A house divided.
Charlemagne on March 30, 2013 at 10:44 AM
…when you are a black bigot…you don’t have to think or read!…you get a ‘pass’ for the ‘past’ !
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:45 AM
Maybe this is one of those historical reenactments, like C-War history fans take part in, with costumes and such.
In this case of course, it’s the history of the democratic party.
slickwillie2001 on March 30, 2013 at 10:45 AM
Fail. You in fact proved that whites too have been discriminated against.
You’re such a joke and a pervert to boot.
Look in the mirror.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:46 AM
Tell that to Jewish actors from the 1930s, like Moe Howard. He real name was Moses Howerstein, and if he and many others didn’t use Anglicized stage names, they never would have gotten work. Funny, as I recall, Moe and the other Stooges were white like me. Unless Jews are a different race?
Sheesh! Don’t you have some underage homosexual to chat with instead of pestering us with liberal BS?
Liam on March 30, 2013 at 10:46 AM
You work extra-hard at being stupid, don’t you?
Solaratov on March 30, 2013 at 10:47 AM
Affirmative Action (which by the way is a Nixonian idea) is not “discrimination against whites.” It produces a formal version of the various privileges that middle class and elite white men had access to when entering the business world. Namely, the subtle ways networking, nepotism and other “connections” determined who received contracts and employment. Issues that often had nothing to do with competency. Of course the previous all-white networks also had all kinds of intraracial discrimination, it was hard for working class whites to gain access to the country club circuits that determined empolyment in white collar jobs or in what we now call performance contracting. But then again, working class whites had also worked pretty diligently to keep blacks out of labor unions. At best, affirmative action offers a slight modicum of privilege to black people from middle class backgrounds over socially disconnected working class whites in the realm of white collar work. That’s kind of it. And nothing at all like slavery or Jim Crow.
OK……weird……
libfreeordie on March 30, 2013 at 10:47 AM
You’re on.
PXCharon on March 30, 2013 at 10:47 AM
Charlie? Oh, hell yeah. Old Charlie would never miss a rally.
katy the mean old lady on March 30, 2013 at 10:47 AM
Everyone here needs to understand how warped Libfree is.
He is a lackey of the state and totally brainwashed. He was abused as a child by a 32 year old man and now actually advocates for sex between kids and adults. That is WHO HE IS.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:48 AM
….I think they’re Corps Men!
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:48 AM
Orwell would be proud prevert.
CW on March 30, 2013 at 10:49 AM
A. I have no idea.
B. I didn’t realize I was responsible for my grandparents.
C. I understand that to you, everyone is an unalterable member of a group.
Akzed on March 30, 2013 at 10:49 AM
We Do!
The NAACP, the Black Congressional Caucus, the Council of La Raza, CAIR, Black Panthers, etc, all have a voice. Don’t Whites have interests and rights as well? Are they to be shut out and Rev. Wright the only one allowed to speak?
Bulletchaser on March 30, 2013 at 10:35 AM
Is it just me, or is seeing “Whites” capitalized in that way strange? Who is in this group of “Whites” anyways? Italians? Irish? Jews? Canadians? Russians? Anyone with an accent?
segasagez on March 30, 2013 at 10:49 AM
How is affirmative action discrimination against whites? In your opinion.
segasagez on March 30, 2013 at 10:50 AM
I wouldn’t doubt that (or something near that) is what the troll believes.
Aviator on March 30, 2013 at 10:50 AM
And besides, affirmative action has been good to you. Without it, you’d be standing on a street corner selling your butt for five bucks a pop.
Solaratov on March 30, 2013 at 10:51 AM
…make sure it only uses its Lips…and doesn’t bite!
KOOLAID2 on March 30, 2013 at 10:51 AM
Which is an effective tactic for lefties. If Republicans weren’t incompetent, they’d do the same thing, except ask “Are you a Democrat?”. Heck, the cognitive dissonance is strong enough with lefties, I bet you could find some that voted for Obama.
Fenris on March 30, 2013 at 10:51 AM
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