Catholic Cardinal: Yes, it’s a sin to comply with the Obamacare mandate

posted at 6:14 pm on April 10, 2012 by Tina Korbe

In the clearest statement of what’s at stake for Catholic employers when it comes to the Obamacare contraception mandate, a leading Catholic cardinal recently said that it is, in fact, a sin for employers to comply with the mandate.

Cardinal Raymond Burke told EWTN’s Thomas McKenna that Catholic employers would not only be guilty of material cooperation with sin, but also formal cooperation because they would knowingly and deliberately be providing employees with contraception:

Thomas McKenna: “So a Catholic employer, really getting down to it, he does not, or she does not provide this because that way they would be, in a sense, cooperating with the sin … the sin of contraception or the sin of providing a contraceptive that would abort a child, is this correct?”

Cardinal Burke: “This is correct. It is not only a matter of what we call “material cooperation” in the sense that the employer by giving this insurance benefit is materially providing for the contraception but it is also “formal cooperation” because he is knowingly and deliberately doing this, making this available to people. There is no way to justify it. It is simply wrong.”

Responding to the comments, [former executive director of HLI America Jenn] Giroux says, “This comment by a high ranking Cardinal is the clearest explanation to date on the issue of an employer’s culpability when providing contraception, sterilization, and abortion inducing drug options in the insurance plans for employees.”

It’s easy to see that this statement might come as a surprise even to the most faithful of Catholics, who are taught that an individual must freely consent to sin to bear full responsibility for it. Under the mandate, do employers really have the freedom not to consent? Cardinal Burke is telling them that, yes, they do. They have the freedom, for example, to get out of whatever business it is they’re running. They have the freedom to not have employees. They have the freedom to ignore the mandate and suffer the legal consequences. Burke’s comments are a hard call to faithfulness to all those Catholic employers who have been outraged by the mandate but might have been tempted to justify their ultimate compliance with it with that perennial of excuses: “I had no choice.” The seriousness of Burke’s words are also a warning to the Obama administration: He is saying that Catholic employers should go out of business before they comply with the mandate. Just as opponents have said from the very beginning, the mandate does, in fact, endanger the very existence of Catholic hospitals, schools and other charitable organizations. The president had better think long and hard about whether contraception coverage is more important to him than broader health care, education and help for the poor.


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Put your money where your mouth is Cardinal. The Vatican Bank is far wealthier than the US. Bankroll the opposition, clearly and openly.

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Well, if that doesn’t just scream “damned if you do and damned if you don’t”….

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Yes – and for decades the catholic church and population has been heavily in the tank for Dems.
How’s that go? – “you made your bed now….”

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:18 PM

More stupid comments from the 14th century.

Isn’t he already too busy excommunicating all the millions of Catholic women already using contraception? I guess that hurts the collection plate too much.

Dave Rywall on April 10, 2012 at 6:20 PM

The Left’s War on Religious Liberty.

rbj on April 10, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Doubling down.

Rational Thought on April 10, 2012 at 6:21 PM

Given that Obama thinks he’s a god, he believes HE is the higher authority.

I don’t think it even occurs to Barry that ultimately he will be food for worms like the rest of us mortals.

wildcat72 on April 10, 2012 at 6:22 PM

Put your money where your mouth is Cardinal. The Vatican Bank is far wealthier than the US. Bankroll the opposition, clearly and openly.

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Isn’t it amazing how everybody else is required to put their money where their mouth is except for wealthy Democrats?

Hey dumba$$, your question should first go to Obama and those wealthy Dems but you libs intentionally ignore that part.

You’re also forgetting that the Church provides far more assistance to the poor than the Dems. The libturds only know how to take.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:23 PM

What about amnesty? It it sin to break the laws of a sovereign nation?

How does the good cardinal feel about it?

social-justice on April 10, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Add Cardinal Raymond Burke to that very, very long list* of people that OBOZO will vilify, demean, insult, mock, verbally attack, spit-on, throw temper-tantrums about, and sick his stooges and puppets in te socialist media upon.

*Partial list: US Supreme Court members who uphold the US Constitution, the Cambridge Police Department, George Zimmerman – and anybody else who defends himself from a doped-up pothead burglar, Paul Ryan for having the audacity to try and correct OBOZO’s massive deficit/debt, The US House of Representatives for passing dozens of bills that would help stop OBOZO’s destruction of the US economy (all of which have been trash-canned by dingy-harry reid and the d-cRAT socialists in the Senate), FOX news for daring to tell some of the TRUTH, and on, and on, and on….

TeaPartyNation on April 10, 2012 at 6:23 PM

The president had better think long and hard about whether contraception coverage is more important to him than broader health care, education and help for the poor.

He already thought ‘long & hard’ & issued the mandate anyway. He has called the Catholics’ bluff, not the other way around.

MissMagnolia on April 10, 2012 at 6:24 PM

And?

mythicknight on April 10, 2012 at 6:24 PM

And I’ll bet he’s willing to forgive the sin – for an appropriate sized donation to the church….

(and yes, I was raised in the catholic church, so I’ve seen it all from the inside growing up – luckily never picked as any priest’s favorite altar boy….)

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:25 PM

What about amnesty? It it sin to break the laws of a sovereign nation?

How does the good cardinal feel about it?

social-justice on April 10, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Ask Obama, he breaks them routinely.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:25 PM

I hope that the Catholic leadership starts to fight back. 0bama has not just the Second Amendment in his sights in term 2 but also the First.

jukin3 on April 10, 2012 at 6:25 PM

Burke has always been a hard*ss! I like him!

JAM on April 10, 2012 at 6:25 PM

And I’ll bet he’s willing to forgive the sin – for an appropriate sized donation to the church….

Gee, you sound like the Democreatic leadership.

(and yes, I was raised in the catholic church, so I’ve seen it all from the inside growing up – luckily never picked as any priest’s favorite altar boy….)

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:25 PM

Hey, I hear Hollywood might still have a fascination for you. If not, try NAAMBLA. You know, that organization that fully supports Democrats and visa versa. Nancy Pelosi has openly supported them.

That explains why pedophilia is OK when you’re a lib.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:27 PM

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:23 PM

You’re shooting the wrong messenger.

Put your money where your mouth is Cardinal. The Vatican Bank is far wealthier than the US. Bankroll the opposition, clearly and openly.

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

My take on that is he’s saying the catholic church should start openly funding Republicans instead of supporting Dems – as they have done for decades.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:28 PM

IMO, the Catholic church that has been funding those in dc for years? and now having to deal with said dealings, are no different than the Jews that have funded the same dc bunch for years? and now having to deal with what they fund?

If the dc bunch stabs you in the back, who is to blame?
L

letget on April 10, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Obama wants Catholic hospitals and other Catholic services to close. In his world, the only provider should be the government.

If he wins re-election, kiss goodbye to everything you loved about America.

hachiban on April 10, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Hmm maybe the Church will find that strong of a position regarding those who facilitate abortion? At least consider how they can be in the appropriate state of grace to receive Communion

katiejane on April 10, 2012 at 6:30 PM

The president had better think long and hard about whether contraception coverage is more important to him than broader health care, education and help for the poor.

He has spent his entire adult life thinking about it, and made it clear in this legislations.

Vashta.Nerada on April 10, 2012 at 6:31 PM

Responding to the comments, [former executive director of HLI America Jenn] Giroux says, “This comment by a high ranking Cardinal is the clearest explanation to date on the issue of an employer’s culpability when providing contraception, sterilization, and abortion inducing drug options in the insurance plans for employees.”

but….but…but…but Barack Obama signed an Executive Order that wouldn’t allow ACA to be used for abortions. Oh I see Obama’s contraception mandate, makes employers provide for the coverage that mandates “contraception” wink, wink. That’s why Bart Stupak voted for it, because there would be no federal monies used for abortions. The federal government would just mandate them under the black umbrella of a contraception mandate …The Stupak legacy.

Dr Evil on April 10, 2012 at 6:31 PM

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:27 PM

Are you intentionally just shooting at everyone in here like a libtard troll – or are you just the type of idiot always trying to pick a fight no matter who you’re talking to?

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:31 PM

You’re shooting the wrong messenger.

I understood what he said.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:32 PM

Slowly but surely, the Left is pushin the nation ever closer to full-blown socialize healthcare…just like Europe…

JetBoy on April 10, 2012 at 6:32 PM

I understood what he said.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:32 PM

No, you don’t. And you understand me either. You’re making that very clear.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:33 PM

No, you don’t. And you don’t understand me either. You’re making that very clear.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:33 PM

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:34 PM

The president had better think long and hard about whether contraception coverage is more important to him than broader health care, education and help for the poor.

He did think about it. He plans to force them to bend to his will and his ideology, effectively to give up their religion for his.

He thinks the church will cave. I hope they remain faithful.

dogsoldier on April 10, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Are you intentionally just shooting at everyone in here like a libtard troll – or are you just the type of idiot always trying to pick a fight no matter who you’re talking to?

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:31 PM

No dumbass, it is simply if you’re going to try the “priest/altar boy” approach, better learn your facts before making a fool of yourself.

I’ve also been raised in the Catholic Church, what’s your point?

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:34 PM

No, you don’t. And you understand me either. You’re making that very clear.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:33 PM

Ah yes, the plea of the truly desperate.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM

The president had better think long and hard about whether contraception coverage is more important to him than broader health care, education and help for the poor.

Yep! He decided to attack religious freedom under the assumption the church would cave. His advisors were even out there saying the Catholic church was secretly grateful since now they could provide abortions and contraception under state edict. In other words Obama doubled down on stupid.

Happy Nomad on April 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM

@6:29,
I would like to add, it is great that the Cardinal is taking bho to task on the mandate. The faithful of both Catholics and the Jewish faith should make their voices heard loud and clear to say bho/team do not speak for them!
L

letget on April 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM

No dumbass, it is simply if you’re going to try the “priest/altar boy” approach, better learn your facts before making a fool of yourself.

I’ve also been raised in the Catholic Church, what’s your point?

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Well d!psh!t – you must have been the priest’s favorite butt boy considering your attitude.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM

but it’s not sinful to comply with the romneycare mandate?

i didn’t think the vatican made distinctions between the rights of states verses the rights of federal governments when it came to declaring something immoral and sinful.

Mitt Romney is vociferously attacking a provision in Obamacare requiring religious employers to cover birth control in employee health plans — but the healthcare bill he enacted as governor of Massachusetts also contained that requirement.

C.J. Doyle, executive director of the Catholic Action League of Massachusetts, told the Boston Globe that Romney’s criticism of President Obama is hypocritical because as governor he did not lift the state-level requirement of contraception coverage.
“The initial injury to Catholic religious freedom came not from the Obama administration, but from the Romney administration,” Doyle said.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Romneycare-Obamacare-Catholic-birth/2012/02/07/id/428686

mittens on April 10, 2012 at 6:36 PM

Well d!psh!t – you must have been the priest’s favorite butt boy considering your attitude.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM

I figured you would bring that issue up sooner or later.

What’s the matter, sorry you weren’t selected?

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:36 PM

“The sin of contraception”

Always good for a laugh.

EddieC on April 10, 2012 at 6:36 PM

The president had better think long and hard about whether contraception coverage is more important to him than broader health care, education and help for the poor.

What would it take to solve the issue? (A) wavier. How many waviers have been handed out for Obamacare already? Answer: Lots.

If at the last minute the Religious community is granted waivers, all those grateful Catholics can vote for their hero Obama again with a clear conscience. There is a purpose for this drama playing out during the campaign season.

Dr Evil on April 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Go Cards!

29Victor on April 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM

What’s the matter, sorry you weren’t selected?

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:36 PM

If you knew how to read, you would know the answer to that, as I clearly stated it. You must still be bending over for your local gay priest – since you’re showing yourself to be a major @ssh0le.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Just as opponents have said from the very beginning, the mandate does, in fact, endanger the very existence of Catholic hospitals, schools and other charitable organizations. The president had better think long and hard about whether contraception coverage is more important to him than broader health care, education and help for the poor.

That assumes BHO actually cares if that happens. He doesn’t, and the left would prefer that no one provided those things except the government.

RadClown on April 10, 2012 at 6:39 PM

That’s why Bart Stupak voted for it, because there would be no federal monies used for abortions. The federal government would just mandate them under the black umbrella of a contraception mandate …The Stupak legacy.

Dr Evil on April 10, 2012 at 6:31 PM

Stupak voted for it because he thought the administration would deliver for him after he left office. Some plum assignment that would allow him to stay in DC and not go back to the folks in MI he betrayed. Stupak was as sincere a opponent of abortions as any of his fellow Democrats who call themselves “good Catholics.”

I know what excommunication means to Catholics and why the church has been loathe to do so. But you know what. Maybe it is time for Rome to consider excommunication of any Catholic politician that openly supports these attacks on the faith.

Happy Nomad on April 10, 2012 at 6:40 PM

The Vatican Bank is far wealthier than the US.

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Huh? Is this verifiable, or is it one of those everybody-knows-it’s-true-so-we-don’t-need-to-offer-proof statements?

JimLennon on April 10, 2012 at 6:40 PM

If at the last minute the Religious community is granted waivers, all those grateful Catholics can vote for their hero Obama again with a clear conscience. There is a purpose for this drama playing out during the campaign season.

Dr Evil on April 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM

I don’t think the religious community would vote for Obama in general, waiver or no waiver.

The damage has been done. There will be a minority who will but Obama intentionally committed the damage to gain support from his base.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Put your money where your mouth is Cardinal. The Vatican Bank is far wealthier than the US. Bankroll the opposition, clearly and openly.

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

It’s not about the money or your open hatred of the Church -it’s about a serious moral and freedom issue, but God warned his followers what the cost would be.

How soon before the lions are back…?

Don L on April 10, 2012 at 6:40 PM

The more we talk about contraceptives the more we lose.

Let this issue die and move on!

social-justice on April 10, 2012 at 6:41 PM

If you knew how to read, you would know the answer to that, as I clearly stated it. You must still be bending over for your local gay priest – since you’re showing yourself to be a major @ssh0le.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Looks like I’m now living in your head, rent free. You obviously can’t get me out of your mind. LOL!

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:41 PM

The more we talk about contraceptives the more we lose.

Let this issue die and move on!

social-justice on April 10, 2012 at 6:41 PM

Fine, leave and let the adults talk.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:42 PM

If at the last minute the Religious community is granted waivers, all those grateful Catholics can vote for their hero Obama again with a clear conscience. There is a purpose for this drama playing out during the campaign season.

Dr Evil on April 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM

The only problem is that the Executive Order as written makes no such provision. The slutty Ms. Fluke needs her contraception so desperately that Obama chose rabid feminists who hump like bunnies over the Catholic church. He’s not going to keep those slutty feminists if he starts granting waivers to religious institutions. How do you suppose he would keep both faithful Catholics while still accomodating whores like Ms. Fluke?

Happy Nomad on April 10, 2012 at 6:44 PM

That assumes BHO actually cares if that happens. He doesn’t, and the left would prefer that no one provided those things except the government.

RadClown on April 10, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Which would be deadly for conservative issues all the way around. And the GOP is providing the Church(and it’s many conservatives) with a strong defense against Obama’s open warfare, how?

Don L on April 10, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Looks like I’m now living in your head, rent free. You obviously can’t get me out of your mind. LOL!

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:41 PM

Go back to the gay homophobe thread where you fit in.
I’m guessing you’re a gay libtard trolling with a bad case of projection.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:44 PM

More stupid comments from the 14th century.

Birth control pills are a 14th century invention?

Isn’t he already too busy excommunicating all the millions of Catholic women already using contraception? I guess that hurts the collection plate too much.

Dave Rywall on April 10, 2012 at 6:20 PM

He doesn’t have to. I think the Church believes that you excommunicate yourself in the process of committing what they consider to be a grave sin.

JimLennon on April 10, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Fine, leave and let the adults talk.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 6:42 PM

You’ll have to leave also then.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:45 PM

you knew how to read, you would know the answer to that, as I clearly stated it. You must still be bending over for your local gay priest – since you’re showing yourself to be a major @ssh0le.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM

I see the lions are back!

Don L on April 10, 2012 at 6:46 PM

Modest proposal for civil disobedience: request all the contraception and abortifacients that you can get your hands on once the mandate sets in and just destroy them all. It’s all doable because there’s no cost involved.

The whole system will go bankrupt and no one will have access.

blammm on April 10, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Wow ! Why all the hate for the Catholic church ?
The ” nasties ” surprise me .
No one demanded you join , follow or support
the church . How about we first remember all
the services the church offers to society in
general ( without a demand that you pledge
allegiance ) .
I recognize the churches faults , but Cripes ,
think about the balance .

Lucano on April 10, 2012 at 6:47 PM

I don’t know who Burke is or what makes him a so-called “leading” Cardinal, but if this is the path the Church really wants to go down, I hope they are prepared for the consequences: for the Catholic Church to become as irrelevant in the U.S. as it is in Western Europe.

If they are serious about labeling every employer a “sinner” simply for including contraception in their health insurance plan, then they dilute the very concept of “sinner” to a meaningless degree.

Drew Lowell on April 10, 2012 at 6:47 PM

it’s about a serious moral and freedom issue, but God warned his followers what the cost would be.

Don L on April 10, 2012 at 6:40 PM

You know it and I know it but if posters at HA are any indication, there are an awful lot of Americans who either are ignorant about what this issue means to those trying to be faithful to the tenets of their faith. Or, more selfishly, they know conceptually why others have problems with this issue but they don’t care or think that such a viewpoint is “stupid.”

I think the second scenerio with selfish people is the more likely.

Happy Nomad on April 10, 2012 at 6:47 PM

“The sin of contraception”

Always good for a laugh.

EddieC on April 10, 2012 at 6:36 PM

I take it you have no values that you believe are worth defending?

obladioblada on April 10, 2012 at 6:49 PM

I see the lions are back!

Don L on April 10, 2012 at 6:46 PM

So you’re ok with the fact that the catholc church has been directly supporting Dems for many years, and you don’t see the problem – or irony that the Dems are now stabbing catholics in the back? You and kingfisher have the same hypocritical defensive paranoia – and snotty attitude to boot.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:49 PM

If you knew how to read, you would know the answer to that, as I clearly stated it. You must still be bending over for your local gay priest – since you’re showing yourself to be a major @ssh0le.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Tina, BAN HAMMER Please.

redridinghood on April 10, 2012 at 6:50 PM

What about amnesty? It it sin to break the laws of a sovereign nation?

social-justice on April 10, 2012 at 6:23 PM

He would probably argue that it depends on whether or not the law is just. The Catholic Church often manages to annoy both sides of the political aisle by agreeing with the Dems on every one of their social programs except for abortion. That one “sin” is serious enough to get the Church excommunicated from the church of liberalism.

JimLennon on April 10, 2012 at 6:51 PM

If they are serious about labeling every employer a “sinner” simply for including contraception in their health insurance plan, then they dilute the very concept of “sinner” to a meaningless degree.

Drew Lowell on April 10, 2012 at 6:47 PM

You do realize that with a faith, sometimes it is about the tenets of that faith and not the bottom line. You do realize that, right? Because your post suggests that this is nothing but bad public relations by the Vatican.

I’d argue that the Catholic institutions targeted by Obamacare are extremely relevant and in virtually every community. Yet these institutions are expendable so that the slutty Ms. Fluke can get her contraception and abortions for free. Maybe it is time for the church to fight back and let Obama deal with good Catholic employers registering their moral objections to Obamacare.

Happy Nomad on April 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM

No one demanded you join , follow or support
the church . How about we first remember all
the services the church offers to society in
general ( without a demand that you pledge
allegiance ) .
I recognize the churches faults , but Cripes ,
think about the balance .

Lucano on April 10, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Actually yes – I was forced to join as a kid, and I left it when I got out on my own.
Yes the church does a lot of good. But they also have spent a lot of money and effort supporting Dems for a long time. For me it’s an obvious case of irony that the Dems are now stabbing them in the back. I agree with corporatepiggy (if I properly understand his initial comment) that now that the church is getting this kind of treatment from Dems, they really should be changing sides in a big and public way.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Tina, BAN HAMMER Please.

redridinghood on April 10, 2012 at 6:50 PM

Only if you take kingfisher first….
Pay attention to who started what.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:55 PM

And I’ll bet he’s willing to forgive the sin – for an appropriate sized donation to the church….

(and yes, I was raised in the catholic church, so I’ve seen it all from the inside growing up – luckily never picked as any priest’s favorite altar boy….)

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:25 PM

I’ll bet he’s willing to forgive the sin – for free.

I was raised in the Church, too.

JimLennon on April 10, 2012 at 6:57 PM

I’ll bet he’s willing to forgive the sin – for free.

I was raised in the Church, too.

JimLennon on April 10, 2012 at 6:57 PM

From my experience – I doubt it. It’s all about the money.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:59 PM

From my experience – I doubt it. It’s all about the money.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:59 PM

Your “experience” isn’t worth spit.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:01 PM

And by the way, Muslims are exempt from the ObamaCare Mandate to purchase Health Insurance. They are exempt because a Fatwa says that Insurance is Gambling.

Are Muslims exempt from buying auto liability insurance?

barnone on April 10, 2012 at 7:03 PM

From my experience – I doubt it. It’s all about the money.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:59 PM

So, in your experience, you were charged a fee for contrition and forgiveness? When and where?

obladioblada on April 10, 2012 at 7:03 PM

Your “experience” isn’t worth spit.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:01 PM

Project much? Go back to dailykos libtard.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 7:03 PM

Actually yes – I was forced to join as a kid, and I left it when I got out on my own.

Good riddance. That explains why the quality of the Church improved.

Yes the church does a lot of good. But they also have spent a lot of money and effort supporting Dems for a long time.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM

The Church has also been very supportive of Republicans but you only follow the little voices in your head.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:04 PM

So, in your experience, you were charged a fee for contrition and forgiveness? When and where?

obladioblada on April 10, 2012 at 7:03 PM

Every time you walk in the door.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 7:04 PM

So, in your experience, you were charged a fee for contrition and forgiveness? When and where?

obladioblada on April 10, 2012 at 7:03 PM

You have to forgive him. He’s confusing Planned Parenthood with the Church.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:05 PM

Every time you walk in the door.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 7:04 PM

Yeah, he’s right. Every time you walk in, Vinny, Guido and the gang shake you up for your “fair share.”

What bullsh*t.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:04 PM

You poor pathetic little libtard. You must work with bayam and libtard4free on the trolling line – all attack and no logic or reason. You’re the stereotype catholic hypocrit.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 7:06 PM

I don’t know who Burke is or what makes him a so-called “leading” Cardinal, but if this is the path the Church really wants to go down, I hope they are prepared for the consequences: for the Catholic Church to become as irrelevant in the U.S. as it is in Western Europe.

If they are serious about labeling every employer a “sinner” simply for including contraception in their health insurance plan, then they dilute the very concept of “sinner” to a meaningless degree.

Drew Lowell on April 10, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Ironically, it was when the churches in the UK and Europe started to liberalise that they began to lose their flocks. It is precisely the opposite of what you would think and, as a result of the vacuum, Islam has stepped in and has begun converting former Christians. In Britain, the government estimates that around 200,000 native Brits, who were either once Christians or secularists, convert to Islam. For example, Tony Blair’s sister-in-law converted after getting what she called a dose of “spiritual morphine” in Iran. In many cases, it is the most radical and virulent forms of Islam. Second-generation Muslims are more likely to be radicalised than their parents or grandparents.

The fact that you can shoot a cannon in an Anglican or Catholic Church on Sunday in the UK or EU and not harm anyone is not because the leadership has been too strict. Behind Islam, Christian fundamentalism is the biggest growing religion in the EU.

I am an atheist so I don’t have a dog in the religion wars.

Resist We Much on April 10, 2012 at 7:07 PM

Oh well if a cardinal says it is then it must be. I mean, if they say a beaver is a fish, who are we to argue…

kastor on April 10, 2012 at 7:08 PM

You poor pathetic little libtard. You must work with bayam and libtard4free on the trolling line – all attack and no logic or reason. You’re the stereotype catholic hypocrit.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 7:06 PM

This, coming from a liar who falsely claims that he was raised a Catholic.

You have a fetish about the Church supporting Dems. That’s all you seem to care about although you avoid the topic when challenged.

Now run away.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Dentarthurdent ,
Forced to join ? Or Catholic parents ?
I’m with you on the dem support issue . Sometimes I think
a lot of the faithful forgot the lesson of independence from
the government !

Lucano on April 10, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Oh well if a cardinal Obama says it is then it must be. I mean, if they say says a beaver is a fish, who are we to argue…

kastor on April 10, 2012 at 7:08 PM

There, FIFY.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:11 PM

I agree with corporatepiggy (if I properly understand his initial comment) that now that the church is getting this kind of treatment from Dems, they really should be changing sides in a big and public way.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Thank you, that was my point.

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 7:12 PM

letget on April 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM
The orthodox Jews are VERY conservative-unfortunately reformed Jews are Liberals first-Jews second.
*As I return to the Tribe I’m leaning toward ‘Reformadox’ Judaism. I’m taking a bit from both…ritual/rule wise*

annoyinglittletwerp on April 10, 2012 at 7:13 PM

*As I return to the Tribe I’m leaning toward ‘Reformadox’ Judaism. I’m taking a bit from both…ritual/rule wise*

annoyinglittletwerp on April 10, 2012 at 7:13 PM

You are a cafeteria monotheist. :)

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Even if Catholics choose to ignore Burke, the idea of Obamacare violating the First Amendment is another issue. Americans, in volume, are opposing Obamacare and this issue isn’t helping Obama at all.

Let’s not forget Catholics but many other demonstrations don’t like the idea of being forced to agree to support contraceptives.

Kingfisher on April 10, 2012 at 7:17 PM

Kingfisher:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beaver&useformat=desktop

“In the 17th century, based on a question raised by the Bishop of Quebec, the Roman Catholic Church ruled that the beaver was a fish”

kastor on April 10, 2012 at 7:19 PM

You are a cafeteria monotheist. :)

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Pretty much. LoL
Seriously though, I lived in ‘Islambad by the Lake’(West Rogers Park area of Chicago) during the fall of ’08- and the Haredi Jewish section seemed like the only part of Chicago where I saw McCain/Palin posters.

annoyinglittletwerp on April 10, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Every time you walk in the door.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 7:04 PM

You’ve been to much different churches than I have. Should you decide to visit a real one, please be assured that you will be welcomed and there is no cover charge.

obladioblada on April 10, 2012 at 7:27 PM

He already thought ‘long & hard’ & issued the mandate anyway. He has called the Catholics’ bluff, not the other way around.

MissMagnolia on April 10, 2012 at 6:24 PM

He HAS called their bluff, and it’s about time somebody did, too. (although I don’t think this was oblamer’s intent.)

The Catholic Church has been oooooh soooo tolerant of the abortion-loving liberals for so long now, I’ve wondered why they still even bother to have a church. Good God, if you can’t draw the line at abortion, when your own worthless doctrine states unambiguously that abortion is murder, then your doctrine is exactly that – worthless.

And “worthless” is exactly what I’ll continue to consider the Catholic Church, until they start living up to their own doctrines, beginning with publicly and loudly excommunicating high-profile self-described “Catholics” like the ghoul Nanzi Pelosi. And they need to start NOW – waaay out before the election.

This election is the tipping point, and the Catholic Church had better play their hand right now to stop the obomunists, before they become slaves and wards of the state, like everyone else will be if this evil isn’t stopped.

Harbingeing on April 10, 2012 at 7:35 PM

First, I was born into an Irish Catholicc family and had 12 years of Catholic education. I am not a practicing Catholic anymore, for many reasons, including the church allowing people like Kennedy, and Pelosi, openly disobeying law by allowing illegal aliens to use the church as sanctuary and supporting dem policy for all these years. Now they are whining because their “friends” that they have helped are turning on them.

megthered on April 10, 2012 at 7:40 PM

Obama wants Catholic hospitals and other Catholic services to close. In his world, the only provider should be the government.

If he wins re-election, kiss goodbye to everything you loved about America.

hachiban on April 10, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Yep. That’s what Obama wants. What would really throw a monkey wrench in his machinery, though, is to do what Ann Barnhardt suggested:

Q: The Obama regime commands that pay for contraception, sterilization and abortion. What do you do?

[] C. Refuse to pay any fines OR to shut down, and force the regime to engage in physical violence, imprisonment and even assassinations or executions in order to shut down and seize non-compliant institutions.

THIS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER. This is the entire point of the Gospel and all of Salvation History. You will worship God first and only. It’s called the First Commandment. You must TAKE UP YOUR CROSS in order to be a true disciple of Christ. You must be willing to LAY DOWN YOUR LIFE and ALL WORLDLY TREASURE in order to have treasure in heaven. You must NOT BE AFRAID. You cannot win this battle if you refuse to stand and fight an offensive battle. If all you do is retreat, capitulate and surrender, you are absolutely, positively guaranteed defeat. The only tactically sound, logically sound and theologically sound response to the Obama regime is total non-compliance and holding the line. No retreat. No retrenchment. Not one inch.

We shall see.

PatriotGal2257 on April 10, 2012 at 7:46 PM

This is fully in keeping with Catholic teaching. I understood immediately what the Cardinal was saying, because if the Church is complaining that it was going to violate the HHS Mandate because it is a sin, every Catholic of good conscience must also.

Here are the definitions (and many others) to which the Cardinal is referring:
http://www.ascensionhealth.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82:principles-of-formal-and-material-cooperation&Itemid=171

Put your money where your mouth is Cardinal. The Vatican Bank is far wealthier than the US. Bankroll the opposition, clearly and openly.

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

I think this is a war for minds. Your anti-Catholic one is obviously made up, so we’ll go work on the others.

unclesmrgol on April 10, 2012 at 7:59 PM

Well, if that doesn’t just scream “damned if you do and damned if you don’t”….

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

No, it doesn’t. Mr. Obama has no power to loose or bind, nor is he a deity. No hell is involved on his side at all.

unclesmrgol on April 10, 2012 at 8:02 PM

What about amnesty? It it sin to break the laws of a sovereign nation?

How does the good cardinal feel about it?

social-justice on April 10, 2012 at 6:23 PM

You know the answer to that one. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God’s.

The meaning of that single sentence, in the context of its Scripture, is that
a) God and Caesar are separate (something the liberals seem often to forget).
b) God has primacy over Caesar in terms of what you must do when confronted with a choice between the two.
c) In all other things (things which either align with God’s Will, or which are not against His Will), do as Caesar would have you do.

Civil disobedience is a path which every good Catholic must pursue when their government acts against His Will.

unclesmrgol on April 10, 2012 at 8:08 PM

Hmm maybe the Church will find that strong of a position regarding those who facilitate abortion? At least consider how they can be in the appropriate state of grace to receive Communion

katiejane on April 10, 2012 at 6:30 PM

The Church is indeed fighting abortion on this one too. The HHS Mandate requires all insurers to offer every drug available on the FDA formulary. That formulary includes abortifacients.

Mr. Obama not only wants the Church to pay for contraceptives — he wants it to pay for abortions too — through the back door, so to speak.

unclesmrgol on April 10, 2012 at 8:11 PM

I’ve heard many sermons now urging parishioners to vote against politicians supporting the mandate or abortion. I’ve never witnessed the Catholic Church in the US show willingness to resist the ruling powers so absolutely.

The Democrat Party has changed. It is no longer possible to be a faithful Catholic and be a Democrat.

theCork on April 10, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Put your money where your mouth is Cardinal. The Vatican Bank is far wealthier than the US. Bankroll the opposition, clearly and openly.

CorporatePiggy on April 10, 2012 at 6:16 PM

I think this is a war for minds. Your anti-Catholic one is obviously made up, so we’ll go work on the others.

unclesmrgol on April 10, 2012 at 7:59 PM

How is calling on the Catholic Church to bankroll Obama’s opposition anti-Catholic? This is FAR MORE THAN a mere “war for minds.” You dismiss Obama’s evil at your peril, just as the Catholic Church does. This is a war for your very soul – whether it will be free or enslaved to the state. Unless the RCC wakes up to this fact, they too, will become enslaved.

Harbingeing on April 10, 2012 at 8:16 PM

Love all the people piling on the Catholic Church here as if they’re the issue.

When they next come for you, don’t bother looking behind you. You laughed as they hauled the Catholics away, and will pay the price when the government finds your affiliates and colleagues are a mere nuisance comparatively.

Why is it every time there’s an open registration, the hatred of the left seems to seep through in far greater proportions than new, fresh voices?

At least you’re lucky. The Catholic Church has survived 2,000 Years. The Obama Administration isn’t going to survive past 4.

BKennedy on April 10, 2012 at 8:20 PM

The faithful of both Catholics and the Jewish faith should make their voices heard loud and clear to say bho/team do not speak for them!
L

letget on April 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM

Rabbi Meir Soloveichik of Yeshiva University said, although he had no objection to contraception or the health care bill, he worried what future government edicts might affect members of his own religion. “When I see the religious leaders of one pretty large religious community in this country say this government mandate is seeking to force us to violate a tenet of our faith, and see then the admininistration say, well that’s too bad, that makes small denominations or faiths in this country begin to wonder” what may be in store, he said. “Not only is this an outrageous violation of one particular faith’s religious freedom, it’s quite frightening to all of us who care about our religious freedom.”

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/democratic-congressman-accuses-religious-leaders-of-trampling-on-freedom

It’s happened, and the Democrat in the room called them all pawns of the Republicans.

unclesmrgol on April 10, 2012 at 8:20 PM

The Church lays with the left on most issues…and now I should be real concerned that the left is trying to make sure the Church will eventually stay in a prone position?

KOOLAID2 on April 10, 2012 at 8:21 PM

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