California state colleges consider asking students about sexual orientation on application forms

posted at 3:30 pm on March 30, 2012 by Tina Korbe

Is it a stretch to imagine activists might someday push for affirmative action programs for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students? For now, administrators are just weighing whether to include a question about sexual orientation on application forms to determine whether California’s state colleges are presently adequately serving the LGBT community:

California’s state colleges and universities are laying plans to ask students about their sexual orientation next year on application or enrollment forms, becoming the largest group of schools in the country to do so. The move has raised the hopes of gay activists for recognition but the concerns of others about privacy.

The questions, which students could answer voluntarily, would be posed because of a little-known state law aimed at gauging the size of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) populations on the campuses. The law encourages UC, Cal State and community colleges to explore whether they are offering enough services, such as counseling, for those students.

“It would be useful to know if we are underserving the population,” said Jesse Bernal, the UC system’s interim diversity coordinator. In addition, giving students the opportunity to answer such questions, he added, “sends a positive message of inclusiveness to LGBT students and creates an environment that is inclusive and welcoming of diverse populations.”

Last fall, Elmhurst College in California became the first college in the country to ask about sexual orientation on a college application:

Elmhurst College, a 3,400-student school, asks applicants: “Would you consider yourself a member of the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) community?” A positive response could help students qualify for scholarships given to diversify the student body, according to Dean of Admission Gary Rold.

Some critics argued that the college’s move could be seen as a tool to bolster the gay population.

The school was not seeking to be a pioneer or to advance any political stance, Rold said.

“That we are first is not of any great consequence,” he said. “We are just trying to collect information for our purposes to help out students.”

The negatives of this vastly outweigh the potential benefits. Not only could the information be improperly used — say to either discriminate against or give preference to LGBT students — but it also suggests sexual orientation is somehow relevant to education. The college admissions process should aim to determine what students would be able to meet the rigorous academic requirements of a university experience. While any number of factors — including family background, ethnicity, religion and state of health — affect a student’s ability to succeed in college, it’s not necessary to know details about those aspects of students’ lives to know whether they have been successful academically in high school and whether they demonstrate a propensity to be able to effectively engage and internalize appropriate course materials. The more I think about it, the more I wonder why schools ask for any of that information. Why not look exclusively at demonstrated academic performance? This goes back to the expansion of the purpose of universities beyond education to some kind of four-year rite of passage to adulthood.


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Does anyone know why bi-sexuals need diversity assistance? Since they are sexually attracted to everyone, who they decide to be with seems to be a matter of choice, not compulsion.

LASue on March 30, 2012 at 4:27 PM

right wingers are going also extreme with state mandated rape (VA to be specific).

liberal4life on March 30, 2012 at 3:43 PM

It isn’t rape, and you make yourself look ridiculous by claiming it is. However, there is a principled argument that it’s a form of state-mandated assault. One could then discuss whether it is justified or not, but it makes sense logically and linguistically.

Personally, I oppose it. And think we should have severe prison terms or death sentences for those who perform abortions, contract for abortions, or encourage or coerce others to have abortions.

Like we treat other murders.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 4:28 PM

The questions, which students could answer voluntarily…

Right there is a big reason this kind of survey cannot be considered accurate.

As a teh ghey, I am all for equal treatment. EQUAL, not special. But this case here is nothing but another instance of those loud and vocal lefty gay groups supporting something that not only does not help, but probably hurts any advances for equality. You go to college to learn and get a degree…not for free campus-sponsored counseling.

JetBoy on March 30, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Since they are sexually attracted to everyone, who they decide to be with seems to be a matter of choice, not compulsion.

LASue on March 30, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Not rational. There’s obviously an element of choice involved, but it doesn’t mean there isn’t a compulsion element. I like women. Now, does that mean I’m going to be with Barbara or Shannon, a blonde or a brunette, a younger women or a much younger women?

Therein lies the choice amidst the instinctive liking of women.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 4:30 PM

My 4.4 gpa kid did not get into Berkeley or UCLA. Maybe she would have if she were LGBT, or better yet, a hispanic LGBT?

LASue on March 30, 2012 at 4:21 PM

Is she a legal citizen? That might be a barrier as well.

L.N. Smithee on March 30, 2012 at 4:30 PM

Right there is a big reason this kind of survey cannot be considered accurate.

As a teh ghey, I am all for equal treatment. EQUAL, not special. But this case here is nothing but another instance of those loud and vocal lefty gay groups supporting something that not only does not help, but probably hurts any advances for equality. You go to college to learn and get a degree…not for free campus-sponsored counseling.

JetBoy on March 30, 2012 at 4:29 PM

What? Your gay? How did you get through the screeners?
Probably a plant to snare a few straight guys and convert them…

right2bright on March 30, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Some colleges (actually a majority of them) have stopped being institutions of higher learning and have become nothing more than radical basic training.

darwin on March 30, 2012 at 4:37 PM

JetBoy on March 30, 2012 at 4:29 PM

What? Your gay? How did you get through the screeners?
Probably a plant to snare a few straight guys and convert them…

I knew he was homosexual when I saw his nickname. Not that I think being homosexual is a bad thing, but it is, you know, different. And there seemed a high probability that “JetBoy” just might not be heterosexual.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 4:37 PM

not for free campus-sponsored counseling.

JetBoy on March 30, 2012 at 4:29 PM

ummm…. why would a gay person need counseling?

faraway on March 30, 2012 at 4:38 PM

Where is Tesla, this post is the perfect subject for him.

RickB on March 30, 2012 at 4:42 PM

why would a gay person need counseling?

faraway on March 30, 2012 at 4:38 PM

To keep on the cutting edge of the the in-fashions?

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 4:42 PM

ummm…. why would a gay person need counseling?

faraway on March 30, 2012 at 4:38 PM

Cause they know their lifestyle is wrong and kill themselves.

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Don’t go after JetBoy ! He may not be straight but he is legitimate !

Lucano on March 30, 2012 at 4:43 PM

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 4:37 PM

It was a joke, he has been a great poster for years…I love that guy….umm in a purely hetero way, honest…

right2bright on March 30, 2012 at 4:43 PM

Cause they know their lifestyle is wrong and kill themselves.

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 4:42 PM

And yours is so “pure”…is your mother upset that it was a botched abortion?

right2bright on March 30, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Cause they know their lifestyle is wrong and kill themselves.

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Or end up being killed.

But I’m happy for you getting a chuckle out of that.

JetBoy on March 30, 2012 at 4:46 PM

why would a gay person need counseling?

faraway on March 30, 2012 at 4:38 PM

To reinforce the ‘victim status’ agenda, y’think ??
To raise up a new batch of ‘loud lefties’ who’d previously just wanted to live in peace.
I’m with JetBoy on this one.. all the way.

pambi on March 30, 2012 at 4:47 PM

Y’all just want gays to use the back door. :-p

SouthernGent on March 30, 2012 at 4:49 PM

They believe humans have God-given souls that they receive at conception. They believe the Bible says “Thou shall not murder.” What other position could they take that makes any rational sense?

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 4:17 PM

What if one is not a Christian? Should tell also believe that as well?

liberal4life on March 30, 2012 at 4:49 PM

From the January 19, 2012 interview in New York Times Magazine of actress Cynthia Nixon, former Sex And The City actress who left a 15-year relationship with a childhood sweetheart and is now engaged to a woman:

Nixon manages to keep a similarly cleareyed perspective on her relationship with Marinoni, despite the titillation it has caused in the tabloid media. She has less tolerance for the skepticism she says her relationship has sparked among some gay activists who find her midlife switch in sexual orientation disingenuous.

“I totally reject that,” she said heatedly. “I gave a speech recently, an empowerment speech to a gay audience, and it included the line ‘I’ve been straight and I’ve been gay, and gay is better.’ And they tried to get me to change it, because they said it implies that homosexuality can be a choice. And for me, it is a choice. I understand that for many people it’s not, but for me it’s a choice, and you don’t get to define my gayness for me. A certain section of our community is very concerned that it not be seen as a choice, because if it’s a choice, then we could opt out. I say it doesn’t matter if we flew here or we swam here, it matters that we are here and we are one group and let us stop trying to make a litmus test for who is considered gay and who is not.” Her face was red and her arms were waving. “As you can tell,” she said, “I am very annoyed about this issue. Why can’t it be a choice? Why is that any less legitimate? It seems we’re just ceding this point to bigots who are demanding it, and I don’t think that they should define the terms of the debate. I also feel like people think I was walking around in a cloud and didn’t realize I was gay, which I find really offensive. I find it offensive to me, but I also find it offensive to all the men I’ve been out with.”

Well! That was refreshing … for a few days.

Before the end of the week, Nixon had been hounded so much, she backtracked to a great degree in a Daily Beast interview by Kevin Sessums, author of the memoir Mississippi Sissy.

L.N. Smithee on March 30, 2012 at 4:50 PM

Y’all just want gays to use the back door. :-p

SouthernGent on March 30, 2012 at 4:49 PM

We do that already o_O

JetBoy on March 30, 2012 at 4:51 PM

Isn’t there some fundamental logic missing when the self-proclaimed party of “inclusiveness and equality” (Democrats) continually seem to want to classify and segregate the population into all these different sub-groups?

Perhaps if we all stopped doing that, and simply refered to everyone as just a “person”, we would make much more progress towards this whole equality thing? After all, if we are all one big group of just “people”, then by what difference would we discriminate against any one person?

gravityman on March 30, 2012 at 4:54 PM

JB, you baaaaad ! ;-)

pambi on March 30, 2012 at 4:54 PM

Underserved, or underserviced?

Ward Cleaver on March 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM

gravityman on March 30, 2012 at 4:54 PM

I have a dream …

pambi on March 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM

To a lunatic-left d-cRAT socialist extremist, a person is NOT a person. A person is a color, a gender, a sexual orientation, an income level, a political type, etc.

TeaPartyNation on March 30, 2012 at 5:00 PM

TeaPartyNation on March 30, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Agreed.
And when we on the right just see PEOPLE, we’re the weirdos.
Upside down world.

pambi on March 30, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Figures the colleges would ask such a question. Too bad there’s no box for NOYFB!

Back in the early 70′s the schools were big on pushing ethnicity questions. Being a smart as, I answered: “Martian”.

When I submitted my package, the reviewer got to that question and smiled while telling me “No, your not!”.

I answered “Prove it!”

The package went through.

GarandFan on March 30, 2012 at 5:13 PM

I don’t think affirmative action will be a concern, because there is no indication that gays and lesbians are underrepresented on college campuses. It would be the equivalent of an affirmative action program to get more Asians and Jews into American colleges.

Mister Mets on March 30, 2012 at 5:15 PM

Will this spawn protests in which the protesters are wearing hoodies made of paisley prints?

BuckeyeSam on March 30, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Well, if being of a particular orientation helps…or hinders…getting into a school, how would the school ever know that the applicants were beign truthful?

Race and sex are usually relatively obvious or verifiable. Claimed orientation can’t really be falsified.

krome on March 30, 2012 at 6:06 PM

There is something that I have never understood about gay people. I have even asked some gays about this and they couldn’t explain it.

A lesbian is into women right? Ok, so lesbians are like men in that they are attracted to women. So why is it that so many choose to look like a man? Why would a lesbian want a girl that looks like a dude. You would think they would look for a cute womanly lesbian that looks like a woman.

Same with gay dudes. If they are into men, why do so many choose to be with guys that have more estrogen than Kate Upton?

So confusing.

The Notorious G.O.P on March 30, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Cause they know their lifestyle is wrong and kill themselves.

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 4:42 PM

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I think the evidence-based one is that we’re part of the animal kingdom, where a certain amount o homosexual behavior is natural. We developed brains smart enough to think and develop ideas, but their is no intrinsic reason why homosexual behavior is “wrong” or why it should end up in suicide — except for social ostracization, harassment, and once-upon-a-time, brutal execution by people believing as you do.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 6:12 PM

It’s all a grand conspiracy so hollywood can make nat’l lampoon style frat movie sequals to “I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry”

CapnObvious on March 30, 2012 at 6:14 PM

There is something that I have never understood about gay people. I have even asked some gays about this and they couldn’t explain it.

A lesbian is into women right? Ok, so lesbians are like men in that they are attracted to women. So why is it that so many choose to look like a man? Why would a lesbian want a girl that looks like a dude. You would think they would look for a cute womanly lesbian that looks like a woman.

Same with gay dudes. If they are into men, why do so many choose to be with guys that have more estrogen than Kate Upton?

So confusing.

The Notorious G.O.P on March 30, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Yeah, it’s a good question.

I think the answer is that we’re biological beings, and many traits, including sexual orientation, occur across a fuzzy-logic range … it isn’t a yes/no switch like a computer, where a circuit is either open or closed. It’s more like being “hot” or “cold” (biological) — it’s a question of degrees.

The hormones that, in large measure, drive our sexual desires also occur across a range, in degrees, after all. Undoubtedly there are other differences in the brains — including some caused by a prenatal hormonal environment in utero, and others caused by epigenetic expression based on experiences in life. But, again, I don’t think they occur as a mere “yes/no” switch. It’s complicated.

This isn’t a complete explanation; I’m sure you could add to it, but I think I’m on to something.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 6:17 PM

Hey. Remember the good ol’ days when Libs launched into spittle flecked tirades about how gub’mint, et al needed to keep their hands off every body and stay out of their bedroom??

Good times. Good times.

locomotivebreath1901 on March 30, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Race and sex are usually relatively obvious or verifiable. Claimed orientation can’t really be falsified.

Now I really do believe race is a valid biological concept and there are differences. However, it clearly also exists along a range, and there is a definite psychological-social aspect in what race(s) a person chooses to identify with.

That said, studies of people’s self-identification and comparison of genetic markers show there is a good correlation. Yet with mixed race, it isn’t always obvious nor cheaply verifiable.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 6:21 PM

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I think the evidence-based one is that we’re part of the animal kingdom, where a certain amount o homosexual behavior is natural. We developed brains smart enough to think and develop ideas, but their is no intrinsic reason why homosexual behavior is “wrong” or why it should end up in suicide — except for social ostracization, harassment, and once-upon-a-time, brutal execution by people believing as you do.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 6:12 PM

Dear Mr. Misrepresentation. Infanticide is practised in many parts of the animal kingdom. This is where the breeding males eat the young progeny of their competition. So an argument from ‘nature’ as you have presented isn’t complete without this particular behaviour as well. You willing to defend that behaviour in humans?

THe latter part of your missive is the most offensive and fantastical, a pure creation in your own mind. Seek help.

Jetboy, resident cognitive dissonance expert on being two mutually exclusive things at the same time thereby violating the law of the excluded middle, has often argued that homosexuals often kill themselves. I was parrotting him.

Regards,

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Would somebiddy please send a message to the Left that Mitch Daniels called a hudna on all this sticky stuff!

sartana on March 30, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Infanticide is practised in many parts of the animal kingdom.

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 6:24 PM

giving a consenting adult a pleasurable orgasm ≠ killing an infant

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 6:51 PM

As a teh ghey, I am all for equal treatment. EQUAL, not special. But this case here is nothing but another instance of those loud and vocal lefty gay groups supporting something that not only does not help, but probably hurts any advances for equality. You go to college to learn and get a degree…not for free campus-sponsored counseling.

JetBoy on March 30, 2012 at 4:29 PM

++…thats why I can’t help but respect you Jetboy. It doesn’t matter if we see things from opposite sides of an issue, you’re honest and freely express it.

Mimzey on March 30, 2012 at 6:54 PM

right wingers are going also extreme with state mandated rape (VA to be specific).

liberal4life on March 30, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Your hoodie is once again restricting blood flow to the brain.

angryed on March 30, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Dear Mr. Misrepresentation. Infanticide is practised in many parts of the animal kingdom. This is where the breeding males eat the young progeny of their competition. So an argument from ‘nature’ as you have presented isn’t complete without this particular behaviour as well. You willing to defend that behaviour in humans?

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Monkeys (also part of the animal kingdom) throw poop at each other. Lots of animals eat their own poop. By the logic of liberals, we should encourage these two behaviors as well. After all we’re part of the animal kingdom.

angryed on March 30, 2012 at 7:04 PM

Re: abortion

What if one is not a Christian? Should tell also believe that as well?

liberal4life on March 30, 2012 at 4:49 PM

If there is no eternal life, then this one life is all we will ever have; it is literally everything for us. If one also believes life is good and, because of naturally evolved human social empathy, that murder is therefore bad, then doesn’t it make even more sense to prevent people from killing (unborn) children?

There are plenty of pro-life atheists for that reason.

At least that’s a reasonable and understandable perspective. It isn’t the great extreme mystery you make it out to be. It follows logically from the humane, kind premises.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Figures you wouldn’t understand the failure of your ‘logic’.

Whatevs.

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 7:13 PM

You’re nuts, tom — comparing homosexuality with infanticide.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 7:15 PM

blink, a consensual activity involving adults giving each other pleasure is not, in any way, the same as killing a child too young to consent to squat, and certainly not their own death.

Homosexual behavior is often loving. tom daschle’s position that it is wrong and therefore leads homosexuals to suicide is disgusting. It is the condemnation from sickos like tom daschle and others like him that causes these awful feelings and deaths.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 7:29 PM

I am just so sick and tired of the gay agenda=just go away!!

Bullhead on March 30, 2012 at 7:48 PM

blink, rape, murder, child (or the equivalent species’ name for child) molestation, incest, infanticide, etc., all occur in the natural molestation.

The reason I said homosexuality — like heterosexuality and grooming and eating and laughing and any number of enjoyable pleasant things — is natural is as a starting point because religious people often believe it isn’t. It isn’t saying everything natural is behavior we should encourage.

tom daschle never proved it is wrong, but he did state it is so — and that this is why homosexuals kill themselves is putting the cart before the horse. There is nothing innately wrong with it. But tom’s behavior — undoubtedly natural since we’re all part of nature — of condemning homosexuality as wrong — is what causes others to feel bad and kill themselves.

I find it disgusting and think he is the one who should be deeply ashamed.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 7:49 PM

Some weird slip of the tongue. Should read:

“blink, rape, murder, child (or the equivalent species’ name for child) molestation, incest, infanticide, etc., all occur in the natural environment.”

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 7:50 PM

A positive response could help students qualify for scholarships given to diversify the student body,

Wow! In that case, I’d put myself down as “all of the above”. I’d need all the “scholarship” money I could get.

oakland on March 30, 2012 at 8:38 PM

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 7:49 PM

Jog off reprobate.

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 9:36 PM

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 9:36 PM

You’re the one whose denunciations of a natural, decent, harmless activity lead people to feel “wrong” and kill themselves. “reprobrate is a much better word to describe you.

You should feel deep shame.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Have you ever seen Blitz?

tom daschle concerned on March 31, 2012 at 12:28 AM

tom daschle concerned on March 31, 2012 at 12:28 AM

LOL I just googled his moniker, that is pretty grisly dontcha think?

You gonna mash out a 1900+page missive before you go?

tom daschle concerned on March 31, 2012 at 12:31 AM

Is there a box for White African American bisexual?

faraway on March 30, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Just want you to stay on topic.

Schadenfreude on March 30, 2012 at 3:58 PM

They had to put that box on the Harvard application so Obama could check it.

cptacek on March 31, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Cause they know their lifestyle is wrong and kill themselves.

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Or end up being killed.

But I’m happy for you getting a chuckle out of that.

JetBoy on March 30, 2012 at 4:46 PM

How would getting counseling help them from getting killed by someone else? That doesn’t even make sense.

cptacek on March 31, 2012 at 1:43 AM

tom daschle concerned on March 30, 2012 at 9:36 PM

You’re the one whose denunciations of a natural, decent, harmless activity lead people to feel “wrong” and kill themselves. “reprobrate is a much better word to describe you.

You should feel deep shame.

Mitchell Heisman on March 30, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Gay sex is harmless?

cptacek on March 31, 2012 at 1:47 AM

And if the homosexuals exceed the tiny percent of their representation in real life will they start affirmatively recruiting and promoting normal (sic) people?

well?

DaMav on March 31, 2012 at 3:34 AM

If homosexuality is “harmless” how come we keep hearing all the moaning, groaning, and carrying on about HIV, AIDS, Gay Bowel Syndrome, and a dozen other maladies too disgusting to mention?

And while we’re at it, if the lifestyle/genetic disease is “gay” how about all the depression and suicides?

And if people are so proud of it how come they jump off bridges when people find out they got it?

Bottom line: I’ll tolerate it, but don’t expect me to kneel at the altar of faggotry and pretend it is anything to be proud of or glorify. Just do your own thing on your own time in your own place and we’ll be fine :-) No, really. And quit tryna sell it to the kids at school! OK?

DaMav on March 31, 2012 at 3:44 AM

Let’s see, I think I’d have to fill in that blank NUNYA.

As in NUNYA DAM BUSINESS.

If you as a school administrator persist in trying to figure out who I’m attracted to; I’m going to consider that inappropriate advances and consider sexual harassment recourses.

I mean why else would you think you have to know that information about me?

Sadly I’m too old to actually go forward with this plan; I’ve already been through college (and some of that college’s required paperwork went away after I had it removed) but this seems like a fun argument that would be easy to win.

gekkobear on March 31, 2012 at 7:18 PM

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