Quotes of the day

posted at 10:38 pm on March 28, 2012 by Allahpundit

“The Supreme Court spent 91 minutes Wednesday operating on the assumption that it would strike down the key feature of the new health care law, but may have convinced itself in the end not to do that because of just how hard it would be to decide what to do after that. A common reaction, across the bench, was that the Justices themselves did not want the onerous task of going through the remainder of the entire 2,700 pages of the law and deciding what to keep and what to throw out, and most seemed to think that should be left to Congress. They could not come together, however, on just what task they would send across the street for the lawmakers to perform. The net effect may well have shored up support for the individual insurance mandate itself.

“The dilemma could be captured perfectly in two separate comments by Justice Antonin Scalia — first, that it ‘can’t be right’ that all of the myriad provisions of the law unrelated to the mandate had to fall with it, but, later, that if the Court were to strike out the mandate, ‘then the statute’s gone.’ Much of the lively argument focused on just what role the Court would more properly perform in trying to sort out the consequences of nullifying the requirement that virtually every American have health insurance by the year 2014.”

***

“‘Democrats in the Congress have long-believed in judicial review,’ Pelosi said during a press briefing in the Capitol. ‘We respect the third branch of government and the role that they play under our Constitution, and that is a role to have the opportunity to review laws passed by Congress.

“‘This is part of our constitutional process, and we respect it,’ she added…

“Asked to predict the outcome, she said, ‘I have no idea –- none of us does.’”

***

“Healthcare interest groups spent tens of millions of dollars cutting deals with the Obama administration and Congress in 2009 and 2010. The Supreme Court may soon leave those deals in tatters — and saddle the healthcare industry with multi-billion dollar losses

“Obama used the individual mandate as a selling point for the pharmaceutical industry, arguing that more insured individuals would translate into a larger market of customers. If the court severs the mandate, however, companies would still have to abide by the price controls while receiving little in the pledged market growth…

“Hospital interest groups agreed to multi-billion cuts — $10.6 billion in 2018 and 2019 in Disproportionate Share Hospital adjustment payments alone — after receiving assurances that the individual mandate would cut down on uninsured hospital stays, which cost hospitals $16 billion in 2008. These same groups, which spent nearly $30 million lobbying for the bill, would now have to endure the cuts while shouldering the financial burden of uninsured stays.”

***

“Some health care experts have suggested that there might be ways to replace the insurance mandate by using market incentives to encourage the uninsured to gain coverage.

“The government could, for instance, give consumers limited enrollment periods to buy insurance so they could not wait until they were ill. Or it could tell them that if they did not buy a policy during a defined period they also would not be eligible for benefits, like subsidized coverage.

“But supporters of the health care law contend that such measures would insure only a fraction of the 30 million estimated to gain coverage with the mandate in place.

“‘There are alternatives to the mandate, but none of them are considered as effective,’ said Neera Tanden, a former Obama aide who now heads the Center for American Progress.”

***

“If Democrats make little progress on alternatives, some purists might decide it’s best to just renew the case for a single-payer system in which all Americans receive health care paid for by the government.

“Sidney M. Wolfe, the director of the Health Research Group at Public Citizen, an advocacy group, has been pushing for government-run health care for decades…

“‘If this is what happens, it may offer more incentive to say let’s decide once and for all that health care is a right,’ Mr. Wolfe said. ‘It will certainly present an opportunity to a number of people.’

“But it’s not clear where the support for such a change would come from, especially after the bruising fight over Mr. Obama’s health care plan two years ago.”

***

“Conservatives want to change the system so markets can work their magic. But Republicans have been unclear about what they want to replace Obamacare with, exactly. Rep. Paul Ryan, the GOP’s resident wonk, gave a speech last September where, in addition to advocating block granting Medicaid to the states and transitioning Medicare to a premium support system, he endorsed ‘replacing the inefficient tax treatment of employer-provided healthcare with a portable, refundable tax credit that you can take with you from job to job, allowing you to hang onto your insurance even during those tough times when a job might be hard to find.’…

“But there might be a compromise out there. Look to Switzerland, where there is universal coverage despite no government health insurance programs. Consumers choose among private plans. And the nation spends 40% less than the U.S. on healthcare, as a share of GDP.

“Here’s Regina Herzlinger: ‘Republicans could enact Swiss-style universal coverage by enabling employees to cash out of their employer-sponsored health insurance. (Although many view employer-sponsored health insurance as a ‘free’ benefit, it is money that would otherwise be paid as income.) The substantial sums involved would command attention and gratitude: A 2006 cash out would have yielded $12,000—the average cost of employer-sponsored health insurance—thus raising the income of joint filers who earn less than $73,000 (90 percent of all filers) by at least 16 percent. Employees could remain in with an employer’s plan or use this new income to buy their own health insurance.’”

***

“Mr. Obama could announce he respects the court’s decision and pledge to fashion a bipartisan solution to provide access to affordable health-care insurance for all Americans. This would help his re-election by repositioning him back in the political center, as he was in 2008 when he ran television ads that said ‘both extremes’ — ‘government-run health care [and] higher taxes’ — ‘are wrong.’

“But he could instead lash out against the court’s majority — as he did in the Citizens United case upholding free speech for corporations — and insist on an even larger role in health care for Washington. Perhaps he would advocate a ‘public option’ where government competes with private and not-for-profit health-insurance companies, hospital consortiums and the like.

“The president has very little room to maneuver.”

***

***



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arnold ziffel on March 29, 2012 at 1:16 AM

I’m pretty sure that was the color.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:23 AM

She obviously should have recused herself. It’s hard to have faith in the honor system when it obvious that they don’t have any honor.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:14 AM

…a true liberal!

KOOLAID2 on March 29, 2012 at 1:18 AM

…my wife asked me today why she never hears of conservative lawmakers with ‘tax problems’…but most liberal lawmakers always have ‘misunderstandings’ or their preparers ‘interpreted’ something wrong.

KOOLAID2 on March 29, 2012 at 1:24 AM

Can’t go wrong with LZ..:)

Dire Straits on March 29, 2012 at 1:19 AM

No you can’t. Its a sure bet every time. I was hoping it would sooth my anger. : )

Bmore on March 29, 2012 at 1:24 AM

“What now”?

rayra on March 29, 2012 at 1:25 AM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:03 AM
————————————–
…the tools you have in your head, and at your disposal…always amaze me! (my computer skills are like lobotomy4lifes thinking skills)

KOOLAID2 on March 29, 2012 at 1:13 AM

KOOLAID2:

But,if something happens to the computer…its HONEY can you come
down here and fix the F$#%^&*()_)&^%$%^&*()_ thing!!

One thing helps,the proper wording of a search…..:)

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:25 AM

Civil War, that’s what. Makers vs Takers. Taxpayers vs Parasites & would-be Lords.

rayra on March 29, 2012 at 1:25 AM

The Complete Collapse Of Common Sense In America

20 Signs That We Are Witnessing The Complete Collapse Of Common Sense In America
What do you do when an entire nation begins to lose the capacity to think rationally? Many Americans spend a great deal of time criticizing the government, and there is certainly a lot to complain about, but it is not just the government that is the problem. All over America, people appear to be going insane. It is almost as if we have been cursed with stupidity. Sadly, this applies from the very top of our society all the way down to the very bottom. A lot of us find ourselves asking the following question much more frequently these days: “How could they be so stupid?” Unfortunately, we are witnessing a complete collapse of common sense all over America. Many people seem to believe that if we could just get Obama out of office or if we could just reform our economic system that our problems as a nation would be solved, but that is simply not true. Our problems run much deeper than that. The societal decay that is plaguing our country is very deep and it is everywhere. We are a nation that is full of people that do not care about others and that just want to do what is right in their own eyes. We hold ourselves out to the rest of the world as “the greatest nation on earth” and an example that everyone else should follow, and yet our own house is rotting all around us. The words “crazy”, “insane” and “deluded” are not nearly strong enough to describe our frame of mind as a country. America has become a sad, delusional old man that can’t even think straight anymore. The evidence of our mental illness is everywhere.

The following are 20 signs that we are witnessing the complete collapse of common sense in America….

#1 According to Wired Magazine, FBI agents have been taught that they can “bend or suspend the law” as they pursue criminals and terrorists. But when they break the law they become criminals themselves.

#2 A TSA manager (not just an agent) at Dulles International Airport was recently discovered to be running a prostitution ring out of a local hotel room. TSA agents have been charged with crime after crime after crime and yet we continue to allow them to be in charge of airport security.

#3 CBS News is reporting that approximately 200 pieces of luggage a day are being stolen by employees at John F. Kennedy International Airport and authorities still have not been able to stop it.

#4 Visitors to the United States must now pay $14 to complete an online form that asks them a series of really bizarre questions. For example, one of the questions asks visitors to the U.S. if they ever “collaborated with the Nazis”.

#5 The U.S. military is buying huge amounts of electronic parts from China (mistake number one) and a government investigation has uncovered the fact that a large percentage of these parts are counterfeit. Yet the U.S.military continues to buy huge amounts of electronic parts from China (mistake number two).

#6 A high school senior in Indiana was recently expelled from school for cussing on Twitter.

#7 Police in Chicago apparently believe that our “First Amendment rights can be terminated” at their discretion.

#8 Americans are becoming very cruel to one another. This is especially true when it comes to the weak and the elderly. For example, two “caregivers” down in Georgia were recently charged with waterboarding an 89-year-old woman that had been entrusted to their care….

Police charge two caregivers at a Jonesboro facility with waterboarding an 89-year-old woman.

Clayton County police said Jermeller Steed and Cicely Reed held down Anna Foley after an argument that started over ice cream.
#9 An increasing number of American families are taking out student loans in order to pay for their children’s kindergarten tuition.

#10 One town in Massachusetts plans to distribute free condoms to children as young as 12 years of age.

#11 Children in America are exposed to enormous amounts of sexual material on television these days, but we are always so shocked when they try to act out on it. The following is one very disturbing example that happened recently in Ohio….

Authorities in southwest Ohio have charged a 13-year-old boy with raping a 5-year-old girl at a McDonald’s play area.

The Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office said Monday that the alleged assault occurred Oct. 29 at a McDonald’s in the Cincinnati suburb of Anderson Township. Sheriff’s spokesman Steve Barnett says the girl’s grandmother was nearby in the restaurant at the time.
#12 The following is another example from Indiana of how our sexualized society is affecting our young children….

Fishers police said an 8-year-old girl and a 13-year-old boy were caught in a sexual act on a school bus.

The girl’s parents are now trying to determine if the February incident was a rape or molestation.

In a statement, police said a bus aid caught the girl and the boy “trying to have intercourse,” and that the “bus aid immediately separated the juveniles and informed the bus driver.”
#13 According to Natural News, the Michigan state government intends to raid private farms and kill pigs that have “the wrong hair color” even though some of these farmers have been raising these pigs for decades.

#14 An executive order recently updated by the Obama administration would give the federal government complete control over all food, all energy, all health resources, all transportation resources and “all other materials, services, and facilities” at the discretion of Barack Obama. The wording of the executive order has been changed so that this can now be done even in “non-emergency” situations. Very few Americans seem concerned by this.

#15 These days many Americans are very hesitant to get involved with helping out anyone else. For example, an 86-year-old World War II veteran living near Detroit was recently brutally carjacked in broad daylight at a gas station. He could not walk after the attack because his leg was shattered so he began to crawl across the concrete pavement to get help. Sadly, many people walked past and drove past as if he was not even there.

#16 At one airport in Hawaii, TSA agents recently required one new mother to go to a public restroom and fill up the empty baby bottles she was carrying with her own breast milk before they would allow her to get on to her flight. The following is how one local news station described the incident….

She claims agents told her she couldn’t take the pump on the plane because the bottles in her carry-on were empty.

“I asked him if there was a private place I could pump and he said no, you can go in the women’s bathroom. I had to stand in front of the mirrors and the sinks and pump my breast in front of every tourist that walked into that bathroom. I was embarrassed and humiliated and then angry that I was treated this way.

When the bottles were full, she was allowed back on the plane.
#17 Massive brawls have been erupting at Chuck E. Cheese restaurants all over the nation. Police responded to violence at one particular Chuck E. Cheese restaurant in Pennsylvania 17 times in just one recent 18 month time period.

#18 Thieves in New Jersey have become so desperate for scrap metal that they have started breaking into churches and ripping the copper piping right out of the walls.

#19 Tide detergent has become an alternative form of currency on the streets of America and there has been an epidemic of Tide thefts all over the nation. The following is from a recent article in The Daily….

Theft of Tide detergent has become so rampant that authorities from New York to Oregon are keeping tabs on the soap spree, and some cities are setting up special task forces to stop it. And retailers like CVS are taking special security precautions to lock down the liquid.

One Tide taker in West St. Paul, Minn., made off with $25,000 in the product over 15 months before he was busted last year.

“That was unique that he stole so much soap,” said West St. Paul Police Chief Bud Shaver. “The name brand is [all] Tide. Amazing, huh?”

Tide has become a form of currency on the streets. The retail price is steadily high — roughly $10 to $20 a bottle — and it’s a staple in households across socioeconomic classes.
#20 New federal rules will severely restrict the kind of work that children can do on farms in America. Kids will be banned from doing many of the most basic kinds of farm chores under the new regulations. Perhaps the children can just sit inside and watch television while the adults do all the work.

As mentioned earlier, what America is experiencing is not just an economic collapse. The truth is that our entire society is collapsing.

For many years our great prosperity masked much of our decline, but now our great economic strength is rapidly fading and it is becoming very difficult to deny how far we have fallen as a nation.

You can find more examples of how American society is decaying right here and right here. Anyone with half a brain can see what is happening to the United States. It really is sad, because America was once a truly great nation.

So is there any hope of a recovery?

Not if we keep going down the same path.

In the end, the choice is up to you America.
– Yoda

VorDaj on March 29, 2012 at 1:26 AM

She obviously should have recused herself. It’s hard to have faith in the honor system when it obvious that they don’t have any honor.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:14 AM

It’s hard to have faith anymore. Too many corrupt thugs in suits are running this country.

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:26 AM

This is my contribution..:)

Dire Straits on March 29, 2012 at 1:21 AM

Now see Dire thats what I like about you. You no how to soothe.; )

Bmore on March 29, 2012 at 1:27 AM

I’m pretty sure that was the color.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:23 AM

Very nice. This site is very fun. Brings back old, pleasant memories.

arnold ziffel on March 29, 2012 at 1:27 AM

This is my contribution..:)

Dire Straits on March 29, 2012 at 1:21 AM

Haha. Great title.

4Grace on March 29, 2012 at 1:27 AM

Win Win for real America regardless of where they come down concerning the mandate. Why? Upholding the mandate leaves the law as is and striking it down only allows the dems keep the WH and Senate while significantly gaining house seats.

Uppereastside on March 28, 2012 at 10:54 PM

.
Uppereastside IS JAMES CARVILLE !

Who knew ?

listens2glenn on March 29, 2012 at 1:27 AM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:20 AM

Hear!.Hear!..:)

Dire Straits on March 29, 2012 at 1:28 AM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:16 AM

When we got married, the husband owned a car just like this one. Except the top was white, interior black.

http://rockville-maryland.olx.com/1971-chevrolet-corvette-roadster-for-32990-iid-324484258

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:29 AM

“Hospital interest groups agreed to multi-billion cuts — $10.6 billion in 2018 and 2019 in Disproportionate Share Hospital adjustment payments alone — after receiving assurances that the individual mandate would cut down on uninsured hospital stays, which cost hospitals $16 billion in 2008. These same groups, which spent nearly $30 million lobbying for the bill,

Obama used the individual mandate as a selling point for the pharmaceutical industry, arguing that more insured individuals would translate into a larger market of customers.

Yeparoo…everyone was in on this and cutting deals. heh.

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:29 AM

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:26 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8MO7fkZc5o&ob=av3e

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:30 AM

MontanaMmmm on March 29, 2012 at 1:21 AM

Great band..:)

Dire Straits on March 29, 2012 at 1:31 AM

http://rockville-maryland.olx.com/1971-chevrolet-corvette-roadster-for-32990-iid-324484258

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:29 AM

Hot! You don’t have it anymore?

I love classic Corvettes.

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:32 AM

VorDaj on March 29, 2012 at 1:26 AM

Yep, it has become an all to familiar trajectory. Collapse or reset? Or both. The whole self government thing is fragile as it relies on citizens not only capable of, but interested in responsible actions. The clock ticks.

Bmore on March 29, 2012 at 1:32 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8MO7fkZc5o&ob=av3e

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:30 AM

That fits perfectly.

Corvettes and Metallica..K you cheered me up a bit :)

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:33 AM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:16 AM
————————————–
You are going to be a good resource for my GM paint questions. I have an actual color chart from ebay. for when I was making models of a 1962 Buick, Impala, and Catalina.

arnold ziffel on March 29, 2012 at 1:19 AM

arnold ziffel:)

You need the code like this one as an example:

Color Codes – GM Paint Cross-Reference
Page 1 of 345: found 17246 paint color chips with a manufacturer of “GM” sorted by year
***********************

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?manuf=GM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Did someone say BYRN?

MontanaMmmm on March 29, 2012 at 1:21 AM

Nice to see you picked up on that. Nice reply ; )

Bmore on March 29, 2012 at 1:34 AM

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:32 AM

No, we had two 71 vetts, that one and a red one with a saddle convertible top. Not a good looking combination, if we had kept it we would have changed the top.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Well the saw wore me out today. More tomorrow. I’m gonna get some rest. I’ll leave you with this. Keep up the good work. Good Night All.

Bmore on March 29, 2012 at 1:37 AM

Otay Peeps,I’m off,heres one for the road!

GoodNight Everyone:)

Road Test,Impala…572 Rat-750HP!
———————————-

Chevy Impala 572 Big Block 750HP!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjoCT6YvNnE

Cruisin’ in the bad ass Chevy Impala.

- 572 Big Block Hot Rod series (9,4L)
- 750 HP @ 6000rpm
- Runs on pump gas.
- Richmond 6 speed manual with dual disk clutch and a long shifter.
- 12 bolt 3.55 geared rear end.
- Hotchics suspension.
- Bear 4 wheel disk brakes.
- Custom 2.25 primary pipe on header with dual 3.5 inch exhaust and dual 3.5 inch 2 chamber Flowmaster mufflers.
- Engine is carbed with a 1050 street dominator with progressive linkage and uses MSD ignition.

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:37 AM

We had one just like this.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/366913/1970-amc-amx#3669130005

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:38 AM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:37 AM

Later Friend..:)

Dire Straits on March 29, 2012 at 1:40 AM

No, we had two 71 vetts, that one and a red one with a saddle convertible top. Not a good looking combination, if we had kept it we would have changed the top.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Still awesome. Too bad you still don’t have them.

I dated a guy in college that had a classic Sting ray. White with a black top…don’t remember the year.

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:41 AM

Bmore, I missed ya- good night!

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Sting Ray. Coolest car ever.

SparkPlug on March 29, 2012 at 1:42 AM

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/366913/1970-amc-amx#3669130005

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:38 AM

Thats bad a$$. Wow- You and Mr Munford had some cool cars. The good ol days.

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:45 AM

I think mortgages was the first big jump in prices and the next was the two income households.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 12:52 AM

Probably so, followed by the sub-prime credit that increased leverage while decreasing lending standards.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 1:47 AM

SparkPlug on March 29, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Thats why I went out with him. :)

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:48 AM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:16 AM
When we got married, the husband owned a car just like this one. Except the top was white, interior black.

http://rockville-maryland.olx.com/1971-chevrolet-corvette-roadster-for-32990-iid-324484258

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 1:29 AM

Cindy Munford:Very nice,heres the different options,Nite Cindy:)
================================================================

1971 Corvette Specifications
****************************

http://www.rogerscorvette.com/specs/71.htm

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:48 AM

Ugh,yes I’m goin,stinkin more news,okay Nire All!

Look for renewed whinning by Team Blue on this,
as,is the risk worth it!
=========================

Analysts:
***********

pipeline carrying crude oil from Canada to the US Midwest could run out of capacity as soon as 2015 – @ReutersStory

Submitted 12 mins ago from http://www.reuters.com
http://www.breakingnews.com/
============================

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/29/us-oil-idUSBRE82S04P20120329

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:53 AM

Night kiddo’s.

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:53 AM

carbon_footprint on March 29, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Noooorrrmm!!..:)

PS..Good tune..:)

Dire Straits on March 29, 2012 at 2:03 AM

We bought our daughter a 1961 Plymouth Belvedere that looked exactly like this. It was so big it had to be angled into the garage.

http://automobilebrandsofthepast.blogspot.com/2009/05/1961-plymouth-fury-2-door-hardtop.html

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 2:05 AM

bazil9 on March 29, 2012 at 1:45 AM

Yes we certainly have.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 2:07 AM

Did someone say BYRN?

MontanaMmmm on March 29, 2012 at 1:21 AM

If you’re still here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo2Aypi0R2c

arnold ziffel on March 29, 2012 at 2:07 AM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:48 AM

Nite, dearest.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 2:08 AM

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 1:47 AM

The straw that broke the camel’s back.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 2:09 AM

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?manuf=GM

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 1:34 AM

That is great, thanks. Just five years ago that info wasn’t available or I could not find it on the internet. Super.

arnold ziffel on March 29, 2012 at 2:13 AM

Now that I have bummed myself out about some of the cars we had and are gone, I am going to bed. “Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.”

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 2:17 AM

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 2:17 AM

Night Cindy. Rest up for trouble tomorrow.

arnold ziffel on March 29, 2012 at 2:20 AM

This is a huge act that “helps” only a tiny percentage of the US population.

The only people this act is really aimed at are those who can afford health insurance but choose not to. MOST people in this country already have health insurance. Most of those who don’t are young people who have decided not to get it because they see it as a waste of money that cuts into their Starbucks, smartphone data plan, cable Internet, and pot expenses.

Government isn’t likely to cover THOSE expenses but they can guilt Congress into doing something about their health insurance.

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 2:22 AM

arnold ziffel on March 29, 2012 at 2:07 AM

Left for a bit, looks like most have already said goodnight.
I’m still votin for the HG Cruise…

Nite arnold :)

MontanaMmmm on March 29, 2012 at 2:23 AM

No, there were still bankers and lenders back in the frontier days.

AZfederalist on March 29, 2012 at 1:01 AM

There have been bankers and lenders since pre-history, I guess, but apparently it was the Model T’s popular financing program that mainstreamed easy credit in America, which then spread beyond automobiles to include home mortgages, thus inflating home prices. Before that a lot of fairly ordinary folks could still afford to buy/build their homes with cash savings. Now, of course, most everybody has to get a mortgage to buy a home, and with the sub-prime credit bubble having inflated prices even more, due to the increased leverage of many borrowers, other borrowers who might wish to be more responsible with their debt are compelled to increase their own leverage to keep up with price inflation.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 2:25 AM

Stop the Top 10! This is the Psychedelic Furs.

John the Libertarian on March 29, 2012 at 2:32 AM

I’ve heard that the government/banks are holding a lot of vacant homes off the market to manipulate home prices: if they would simply let the free market work the cost of housing would come way down and people would have an easier time coping with the rising gas and energy prices and inflation. If the government really wants to encourage home ownership, they need to stand back and let the free market, that Bush first abandoned, work. Once home prices come down a lot of irresponsible people that borrowed a lot of money on second and third mortgages or what have you may pay a price, but better them than responsible people who deserve to benefit from a price correction. If old American’s are going to continue their spendthrift ways and stick young Americans with the bill, at least let housing prices adjust so that it will be easier for them to own a home while they pay off your irresponsible debts.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 2:54 AM

I’ve heard that the government/banks are holding a lot of vacant homes off the market to manipulate home prices: if they would simply let the free market work the cost of housing would come way down and people would have an easier time coping with the rising gas and energy prices and inflation.

Say I am a bank and I have 10,000 mortgages in a large metro. When houses go “under water”, I have to increase my capital reserves to cover the potential loss in case some of those mortgages fail and I lose money on the loan (I can’t sell the house for what the borrower owes).

If the median home price in the market falls, I have to increase my capital reserves even more. I don’t make money on cash sitting in my vault. I make money by lending money for interest. If I have to put more in reserve, that’s less I can lend which means less profit in the form of interest and I start to lose money.

So, if I have a bunch of foreclosed homes, I might have calculated that overall it is better to just let them sit or dribble them out very gradually to the market rather than dumping them all at once, depressing housing prices in the local market, putting more mortgages “under water”, and forcing me to put more money in the vault in reserve.

What would actually benefit the bank and the community would probably be to raze the house and sell the lot as an empty building lot. This way the sale does not go against median home prices in the local market because it is not a home sale, it is a lot sale. Secondly, anyone buying the lot is planning to build at some point so it creates building activity.

Homes older than 10 years old in foreclosure inventory should probably be razed and sold as lots.

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 3:25 AM

So, if I have a bunch of foreclosed homes, I might have calculated that overall it is better to just let them sit or dribble them out very gradually to the market rather than dumping them all at once,

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 3:25 AM

How can the banks afford to sit on all of those losses? I think the government must be financing it. That’s probably where a lot of the money they’re creating goes.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 4:05 AM

…As mentioned earlier, what America is experiencing is not just an economic collapse. The truth is that our entire society is collapsing.

For many years our great prosperity masked much of our decline, but now our great economic strength is rapidly fading and it is becoming very difficult to deny how far we have fallen as a nation.

You can find more examples of how American society is decaying right here and right here. Anyone with half a brain can see what is happening to the United States. It really is sad, because America was once a truly great nation.

So is there any hope of a recovery?

Not if we keep going down the same path.

In the end, the choice is up to you America.
– Yoda

VorDaj on March 29, 2012 at 1:26 AM

You nailed it.
We are just now smelling the Godless hedonistic crap-cake that we put into the oven back in the revolution of the 60′s/70′s when we threw away God.
As John Paul II told us ( a man who lived under the jack boots of the Nazies and Commies) We cannot have a society without God. Yet,It is not only the atheist left – our fiscal and libertarian conservative base, by default,hurls spittle at Him vicariously(you,#4&^*#$$ social-cons) while they pursue their 30 pieces of silver and God-proof their bedrooms, many cheering when Obama attacks God’s Church and man’s very conscience as an evil.

Don L on March 29, 2012 at 4:08 AM

I could be wrong but I think the banks would be forced to put those vacant homes on the market if not for government infused cash meant to manipulate the market.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 4:08 AM

WHITE HOUSE INSIDER: Obama Election Team Preparing For “Healthcare Warfare” Campaign

So add healthcare riots to the race riots that are coming this summer.

VorDaj on March 29, 2012 at 4:20 AM

How can the banks afford to sit on all of those losses?

Because dumping the homes would INCREASE their loss. They are getting by now because the Federal Reserve has pumped them flush with capital for their reserves. That is another problem.

Lets say we get inflation. Now home prices start to rise. At some point these homes come out from under water as the home price inflates above the mortgage owed. (note the value of the home didn’t go up, just the price. The house is now above water but a cup of coffee is also $10 because the entire economy is inflating).

Suddenly the banks no longer need that cash in reserve and can lend it out. The result is a race. Can the federal reserve pull that capital out of the markets fast enough to prevent it from becoming hyperinflation? As all that cash dumps into the market, it will make the inflation even worse.

Here is a graph of the Monetary Base or M0 which includes money in reserve in bank vaults:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?s1id=BASE

And this is M1 which does NOT include money in bank vaults in reserve:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1?cid=25

Notice how M0 absolutely exploded in 2008 and 2009 and again in 2011? Those are QE1 and QE2 or “quantitative easing” by the federal reserve or basically just printing money. But notice that the cash in circulation in the economy (M1) didn’t explode by that much. The cash went into bank vaults and is just sitting there as reserves against those mortgages.

If housing prices inflate above that water level, all that cash is going to get dumped into M1 which means inflation will go through the roof VERY fast unless the federal reserve can pull it back out fast enough. There is some thinking that by the time the fed notices that it is happening, it will be too late. But if they pull it out too soon, they risk another financial crisis. So they are walking a tightrope between bank collapse and hyperinflation.

Razing the “shadow inventory” would help ease that problem.

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 4:34 AM

Posted this in another thread by mistake.

One indication that this is in fact happening will be a sudden profound spike in M1 but by the time it shows up in the data, it will be after the fact. It will have already happened. The Fed won’t be able to do anything about it.

If they attempt to pull out the cash NOW, and they guess wrong, and housing prices fall more, they banks go broke.

So the situation is actually quite tricky. Razing the shadow inventory would help support prices and make it harder for home prices to fall more.

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 4:40 AM

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 4:34 AM

But many banks are essentially bankrupt because of all the bad loans they made and had to be bailed out. There’s no way they would be able to hold onto all of that real estate if they weren’t getting infusions of cash from the government. Let them go bankrupt like they deserve and they’ll be forced to liquidate their assets, and all that real estate being made available on the market will be a boon for young people, the fist sign of hope they’ve had for a long while.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 4:59 AM

I still can’t believe that the little weasel is gonna be 18. Adulthood-watch out!
*looks skyward*

annoyinglittletwerp on March 28, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Remind me on Saturday, but I certainly will. I’ll even bring the cake! ;-)

cynccook on March 28, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Will do! Mine turns 18 today! The little creep was just four….don’t know what happened! He is going to go register to vote : ))))

QOTD for birthday felicitations?

herm2416 on March 29, 2012 at 5:23 AM

There’s no way they would be able to hold onto all of that real estate if they weren’t getting infusions of cash from the government.

I said above that the federal reserve IS pumping cash into the banks or has, for use as reserves against these loans. Also, the banks are getting short term loans from the Fed for 0.1%. In other words, if the bank needs cash overnight to balance books between member banks the fed lends it to them free. That greatly reduces their expense.

Let them go bankrupt like they deserve and they’ll be forced to liquidate their assets

It isn’t that easy. Banks aren’t like a store or other business. Banks are the lube that allow the economy to work.

A few examples. You are a farmer. You need seed and fertilizer and some equipment maintenance. You don’t have the cash NOW but after harvest you will be able to pay for the seed, fertilizer, and maintenance. You borrow from the bank, you plant your crop, harvest your crap and the bank gets their money back plus interest and you have enough money to make it to the next harvest except for a loan for seed next year. If the bank goes broke, you can’t borrow the money, the fields don’t get planted, people around he country go hungry.

You are an importer of oil. You want to buy a tanker load. The organization requires a letter of credit saying you have the money to pay for the oil before they will even load it on the ship. You need a letter of credit from the bank that says you are good for the payment. If the bank goes broke, they can’t issue letters of credit and imports stop. That actually happened during the initial phases of the mortgage crisis. Banks had to stop nearly ALL lending because they had to build capital reserves. All the payments they were collecting on outstanding loans were being held in reserve and could not be lent out. The economy took a major belly flop because of that.

You are a manufacturer. You have just won a new contract to make 500,000 widgets. But you need cash to buy the raw materials and machinery and maybe lease a factory and hire some workers to make those 500,000 widgets. You go to the bank and get a loan and you pay it back as your widgets are produced and sold. If the bank is out of business, a factory can’t increase production or change tooling for a new model year of widget.

Finally, you are the taxpayer. Most mortgages these days are government guaranteed. If the bank fails, the taxpayers must cover the mortgages anyway. If you let the bank go bankrupt, you are just putting yourself on the hook for the mortgages. It is cheaper to print some money and put it in the bank’s vault and have it only draw enough to cover any losses on any mortgages that actually go into foreclosure than it is to see the bank go completely broke and have to saddle another bank with yet more under water mortgages forcing THAT bank to increase its reserve capital even more.

Reserve capital is dead weight. It doesn’t “work” in the economy, it just sits there. The more of it that you require, the less money you have to lend out and put people to work. That’s why the fed just printed more money and shoved it into the banks, so they wouldn’t have to take money out of circulation to fund their reserves.

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 5:24 AM

RNC AD!
=======

ObamaCare: It’s A Tough Sell
Added: 15 hours ago Occurred On: Mar-28-2012
********************************************

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=205_1332957925

canopfor on March 29, 2012 at 5:30 AM

FloatingRock, this is what the fed has done to pump reserves into the bank:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing

Basically the fed tells the bank to issue stock. The fed then just prints money and buys the bank’s stock. The bank gets cash that it then puts in its reserve. The question is, if inflation heats up, can the fed then return that stock to the banks and take that cash back OUT of the market soon enough to head off inflation. They might not be able to because by the time they notice that the money supply has shot up, a good bit of that money may already be in circulation. For example: fed notices that M1 shot up this month. Is that a blip or is that a trend? No idea. Wait until next month. Next month it jumps TWICE as much … too late, too much of that money has now leaked into circulation and attempting to pull it in now is quite disruptive.

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 5:39 AM

Am I the only one who believes its not relevant to the deliberations the consequences of ruling one way or the other on the constitutionality of the mandate. I thought as a judicial matter the impact of the ruling politically even economically have no bearing on the fact of whether it complies with the constitution.

The idea that they must consider the remedy of their ruling based on comments from Kagan is absolution beyond me. This is where we get into trouble – activism at its worst.

alQemist on March 29, 2012 at 5:42 AM

It isn’t that easy. Banks aren’t like a store or other business. Banks are the lube that allow the economy to work.

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 5:24 AM

Several of the banks are corrupt and got into bed with the government, taking advantage of their corporatist arrangement to enrich themselves and their cronies with reckless disregard for responsible business and lending practices. They should pay the price for their own mismanagement and let the free market work it’s course to adjust housing prices down where they belong in a healthy economy that isn’t being run by generational thieves and crooks.

Older Americans seem to want to continue borrowing, printing and inflating all the cash they need to bolster housing prices to help themselves to the detriment of the young while at the same time it’s the young people who will have to pick up most of the tab for this manipulation that is harmful to their interests.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 5:58 AM

America will be better off without a group of corrupt banks running the show and having such a corrupting influence on our government.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 6:00 AM

Morning Moaning Joe watchers!
Had to turn away at 5:04 to FoxNews because serious Joe voice doesn’t want to talk about ObamaCare and the Supreme Court, but wants to seriously talk about “how bad Romney’s numbers are”. Of course not and of course he would: Howard Dean is there with the hair dye job from hell.

Marcus on March 29, 2012 at 6:06 AM

OT: right on queue, morning joe touting the poll showing dear leader’s favorabiliy higher than the others…

he’s a shoe in…dear leader is going to win big time…

just saw your post marcus…

good morning!

cmsinaz on March 29, 2012 at 6:23 AM

What was the sampling data on the poll?

I just do not trust the LSM anymore…

Khun Joe on March 29, 2012 at 6:36 AM

Morning cmsinaz. Turned back to Moaning Joe and Politico calling Marco Rubio “establishment” and wondering where the Conservatives are, tuned away.

Marcus on March 29, 2012 at 6:38 AM

Khun Joe on March 29, 2012 at 6:36 AM

don’t know, would have to go back to the other thread talking about favorability….

despite dear leader’s underwater job approval numbers, let’s focus on romney’s favorability instead

what a crock…

cmsinaz on March 29, 2012 at 6:40 AM

Marcus on March 29, 2012 at 6:38 AM

they are so under valerie’s thumb….amazing

cmsinaz on March 29, 2012 at 6:45 AM

“Mr. Obama could announce he respects the court’s decision and pledge to fashion a bipartisan solution

don’t hold your breath…we’ve already seen what they are going to say when this goes down….

cmsinaz on March 29, 2012 at 6:46 AM

of course morning joe (d) also pointed out how Sarah’s high unfavorables prevented her from running. showing again who the left fears most.

but back to romney. boy those unfavorables are climbing by the day. the man is unelectable. no matter which way you guys want to spin it. the rich guy persona is mitts downfall in terrible economy.

renalin on March 29, 2012 at 6:47 AM

now they are defending perilli’s performance in front of scotus….

cmsinaz on March 29, 2012 at 6:50 AM

“Mr. Obama could announce he respects the court’s decision and pledge to fashion a bipartisan solution
don’t hold your breath…we’ve already seen what they are going to say when this goes down….

cmsinaz on March 29, 2012 at 6:46 AM

Just yesterday, his spokesman said Obamacare WAS bipartisan. Really ! Someone actually said it.

Jabberwock on March 29, 2012 at 7:02 AM

Jabberwock on March 29, 2012 at 7:02 AM

unstinkinbelievable…maybe he thinks since snowe voted it out of committee it’s bipartisan…

cmsinaz on March 29, 2012 at 7:10 AM

but back to romney. boy those unfavorables are climbing by the day. the man is unelectable. no matter which way you guys want to spin it. the rich guy persona is mitts downfall in terrible economy.

renalin on March 29, 2012 at 6:47 AM

Democrat spin. I don’t particularly like him but I’m ready to vote for him.

Honestly, before Supreme Court arguments started, did you REALLY think that we would be on the threshold of the entire ObamaCare package being tossed out? Remember the months and months of grief when that was passed? The Tea Partiers “spitting” on the black Congresspeople?

When it gets tossed, the Republicans are going to be energized like crazy.

Marcus on March 29, 2012 at 7:12 AM

Marcus on March 29, 2012 at 7:12 AM

they’ve been talking about his mansion ad nauseum this am…

the snoopy dance is in a holding pattern until we hear their verdict

cmsinaz on March 29, 2012 at 7:19 AM

The Justices don’t have to worry about what to do with the rest of the bill, just throw it all out and tell them to come up with plan “B”. If the Democrats didn’t think enough of it to put a sever ability clause in it, why should the Supreme Court worry about it.

The Democrats probably pulled it thinking that, if it went to court, they wouldn’t throw out the whole bill. Well, as a country, we need the court to say, “Yes we can!!!”

bflat879 on March 29, 2012 at 8:01 AM

Older Americans President Barack Obama and his Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geithner, seem to want to continue borrowing, printing and inflating all the cash they need to bolster housing prices to help themselves to the detriment of the young while at the same time it’s the young people who will have to pick up most of the tab for this manipulation that is harmful to their interests.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 5:58 AM

What power do older Americans have? This is the President’s economic plan you are moaning about.

Fallon on March 29, 2012 at 8:17 AM

You are a farmer. You need seed and fertilizer and some equipment maintenance. You don’t have the cash NOW but after harvest you will be able to pay for the seed, fertilizer, and maintenance. You borrow from the bank, you plant your crop, harvest your crap and the bank gets their money back plus interest and you have enough money to make it to the next harvest except for a loan for seed next year. If the bank goes broke, you can’t borrow the money, the fields don’t get planted, people around he country go hungry.

crosspatch on March 29, 2012 at 5:24 AM

Your example I found funny.
In agriculture, I think it’s pretty rare to actually have money left over after paying the bank AND having enough to not borrow a ton more.
Agriculture folks are mostly ALL heavily in debt.
And many oftentimes our income is negative.
I won’t deny the banks are making a mint from all of us in Ag.
The area I live in, farmers inherited all their land & it was in many cases totally free & clear paid off.
To farm now, there’s no choice but to be in debt unless you’ve got incredibly deep pockets. And those people are usually doing Ag on the side & the farm/ranch is nothing more than a tax write off.
The government has so heavily manipulated farming that I seriously doubt many farmers could survive the govt withdrawing their subsidies.
They game the system like you would not believe.
Crop insurance & farm payments: it’s nothing but a Federal Govt GAME.
Where the Fed picks winners & losers. If you are a farmer who’s good at twisting & gaming the system enough (using the programs) then you’re probably sitting pretty.
Those of us who don’t depend upon govt payments often have a hard time making it.
But these subsidies MUST end.

Badger40 on March 29, 2012 at 8:22 AM

“‘If this is what happens, it may offer more incentive to say let’s decide once and for all that health care is a right,’ Mr. Wolfe said. ‘It will certainly present an opportunity to a number of people.’

In the old days, I think they were called the “shiftless”.

Cleombrotus on March 29, 2012 at 8:27 AM

Badger40 on March 29, 2012 at 8:22 AM

I know it’s considerably of-topic, Badger, but what do you think of what Joel Salatin is doing down in Virginia on Polyface
Farm? Could it be a model for getting farmers off the government teat and dependency?Or is it strictly a model for small-farm operation?

Cleombrotus on March 29, 2012 at 8:31 AM

crosspatch

Thank you for your cogent analysis of the banks, capital reserves, and foreclosures!

FloatingRock

There is no shortage of affordable homes available for young home buyers. That’s not the problem; the problem is jobs and being able to pass muster with the banks to qualify for a loan. I only wish I didn’t own a home right now so I could buy one at bargain basement prices:(

Buy Danish on March 29, 2012 at 8:41 AM

what do you think of what Joel Salatin is doing down in Virginia on Polyface
Farm? Could it be a model for getting farmers off the government teat and dependency?Or is it strictly a model for small-farm operation?

Cleombrotus on March 29, 2012 at 8:31 AM

IDK anything about this person.
I’ll check it out.

Badger40 on March 29, 2012 at 8:50 AM

Cleombrotus on March 29, 2012 at 8:31 AM

OK I see what he does.
Well it looks to me as if he probably has some grub stake going on from his books perhaps.
But regardless, going ‘organic’ has it’s own indistry rules & they are quite strict if you want to use the ‘Organic’ label.
I have always had concerns about huge monoculture operations & the rampant use of chemicals.
But I truly believe, from what I’ve personally & from the scientific research I’ve followed on these chemicals that in most cases, controlled use of chemicals is not a horrendous thing.
But I do believe we use in farming WAYYYYY to many chemicals.
However, there are LOTS of farmers cutting down on chemicals bcs they’re just too damned expensive, along with everything else.
I do think this mans is in a niche market.
It’s a nice gig if you can get it.
This is how many producers get by, by going to the niche market.
But supplying to a niche market AND making a living off of it requires a lot of work.
And the returns aren’t really much better than traditional markets from what I’ve seen.
We are cow/calf producers. So we sell at auction to feeders, who then sell to the packers.
But I can also sell to individuals if I want to.
It’s just not something we’ve done bcs everybody round her can get fresh beef if they want it.

Badger40 on March 29, 2012 at 8:59 AM

I do think this mans is in a niche market.
It’s a nice gig if you can get it.

Badger40 on March 29, 2012 at 8:59 AM

That’s what I thought as well.

Fascinating reading though, his books and his ideas. Makes me wish I’d been a farmer.

Cleombrotus on March 29, 2012 at 9:16 AM

I do have to say, though, that after reading “The Omnivore’s Dilemma”, from where I first heard of Mr. Salatin’s operation, that I’m less inclined to eat beef than I’ve ever been.

Cleombrotus on March 29, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Makes me wish I’d been a farmer.

Cleombrotus on March 29, 2012 at 9:16 AM

Organic’s pretty labor intensive.
The farmers I live around hardly ever get out of their tractors.
Hell, a lot of them just sit in the house & play the commodities game on their computers & hire folks to do everything for them.
Some farmers round here don’t even own any equipment hardly.
They contract everything out: seeding, fertilizer, spray, harvest, trucking etc.
You’d be surprised at how many non-organic farmers have little connection to going outside & get acquainted with their land & crops.
Very sad.
I personally only love ranching.
Raising animals is one of the most rewarding things in the world.

Badger40 on March 29, 2012 at 10:15 AM

herm2416 on March 29, 2012 at 5:23 AM

My youngest has a birthday today also, ten years older than yours. So depressing. Happy birthday to them both.

Cindy Munford on March 29, 2012 at 10:27 AM

What power do older Americans have? This is the President’s economic plan you are moaning about.

Fallon on March 29, 2012 at 8:17 AM

The power of the majority. The baby boomers are a huge demographic bubble that can and do force the bill for their spendthrift ways down the throats of the young, even people not born yet.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Buy Danish on March 29, 2012 at 8:41 AM

Why am I not surprised that two Romney supporters in this thread disagree with my defense of free markets setting home prices and defend bailing out corrupt Wall Street banks…

FloatingRock on March 29, 2012 at 11:21 AM

You’d be surprised at how many non-organic farmers have little connection to going outside & get acquainted with their land & crops.
Very sad.
I personally only love ranching.
Raising animals is one of the most rewarding things in the world.

Badger40 on March 29, 2012 at 10:15 AM

That expresses perfectly some of the insights gleaned from reading these men’s thoughts; how disconnected we, as a people, have become from what is clearly the design for fulfilled and contented living.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Cleombrotus on March 29, 2012 at 11:33 AM

“Some health care experts have suggested that there might be ways to replace the insurance mandate by using market incentives to encourage the uninsured to gain coverage.

That will have to be some “encouragement”.

Picture this, you’re a healthy fit 22 year old. You run $0-$250 a year in average medical expenses. I was there, I’d have 1 doctors visit at most; usually for an ear infection or the flu or a sinus infection… or a very rare severe sprain. I had 3 years in which I didn’t see a doctor because I didn’t need to.

Now someone wants to persuade you to pay $6,000 a year (500/month) for health insurance for a plan to cover this projected $250/year expense.

What are the odds this will be a winning argument? How “encouraging” do they have to be to get you to buy insurance that costs twice your yearly average expenses every month?

gekkobear on March 29, 2012 at 2:48 PM

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