EPA to kill new coal-fired plants through first-ever greenhouse-gas regulations

posted at 8:40 am on March 27, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

If you thought gas prices will never stop rising, just wait until you see what happens to electricity after the Barack Obama’s EPA gets its way.  The agency will deliver on Obama’s election promise to bankrupt any new coal-fired electrical production in its first-ever regulations on greenhouse-gas emissions, the Washington Post reports.  The new regulatory regime will all but guarantee that new coal-fired plants won’t be built to replace others shutting down:

The Environmental Protection Agency will issue the first limits on greenhouse gas emissions from new power plants as early as Tuesday, according to several people briefed on the proposal. The move could end the construction of conventional coal-fired facilities in the United States.

The proposed rule — years in the making and approved by the White House after months of review — will require any new power plant to emit no more than 1,000 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt of electricity produced. The average U.S. natural gas plant, which emits 800 to 850 pounds of CO2 per megawatt, meets that standard; coal plants emit an average of 1,768 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt.

Industry officials and environmentalists said in interviews that the rule, which comes on the heels of tough new requirements that the Obama administration imposed on mercury emissions and cross-state pollution from utilities within the past year, dooms any proposal to build a coal-fired plant that does not have costly carbon controls.

“This standard effectively bans new coal plants,” said Joseph Stanko, who heads government relations at the law firm Hunton and Williams and represents several utility companies. “So I don’t see how that is an ‘all of the above’ energy policy.”

Well, it’s not, obviously.  Nor has Obama ever honestly intended to apply an “all of the above” energy policy; he mouths the words, but his actions are hostile to hydrocarbon-based energy.  The most honest discussion on energy policy from Obama came in the January 2008 interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, in which he promised to bankrupt new coal-based facilities:

The problem is not technical, uh, and the problem is not mastery of the legislative intricacies of Washington. The problem is, uh, can you get the American people to say, “This is really important,” and force their representatives to do the right thing? That requires mobilizing a citizenry. That requires them understanding what is at stake. Uh, and climate change is a great example.

You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know — Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad. Because I’m capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it — whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.

They — you — you can already see what the arguments will be during the general election. People will say, “Ah, Obama and Al Gore, these folks, they’re going to destroy the economy, this is going to cost us eight trillion dollars,” or whatever their number is. Um, if you can’t persuade the American people that yes, there is going to be some increase in electricity rates on the front end, but that over the long term, because of combinations of more efficient energy usage, changing lightbulbs and more efficient appliance, but also technology improving how we can produce clean energy, the economy would benefit.

If we can’t make that argument persuasively enough, you — you, uh, can be Lyndon Johnson, you can be the master of Washington. You’re not going to get that done.

This leads us to the natural-gas option mentioned by the Post.  The response might be, “Well, okay, Obama’s bankrupting the coal industry, but we can still use natural gas.”  That’s only true if we can get the natural gas.  The EPA has also begun blocking the use of hydraulic fracturing, better known as fracking, which allows for massive improvement in extraction and access to vast amounts of natural gas. Note well that Obama included natural gas among those sources to which his policies would be hostile, and so far he’s proving it.

Obama has no interest in an “all of the above” policy on energy.  He wants to drive up energy costs in order to make his favored alternatives somewhat competitive, even though none of them can match the production scope of hydrocarbon sources that are found in abundance in the US.  Obama has less interest in producing power than in exercising it, and Congress needs to put shackles on this EPA before working-class families have to start lighting candles rather than flipping on the light switch.


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Then, Americans need to take back our government starting with holding Congress and the President accountable for their actions.

What “needs” to happen and what will happen are two very very different things.

Politicians- of any stripe- exist to spend other people’s money and accrue power to themselves. It’s what they do. Pretty much all they do.

Bat Chain Puller on March 27, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Chicken little ignorance of a light bulb is no way to go through life though.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Analogy fail.

Chicken Little was afraid of a danger (the sky falling) that wasn’t real. The danger of mercury poisoning from a broken CF bulb is real.

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:56 AM

CFL’s don’t work in my garage door openers, they vibrate to uselessness too.

Instead I pay an illegal Mexican to perch above my garage and shine a flashlight down whenever the door operates; I save money on bulbs and provide a job.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:30 AM

…thank goodness I had just swallowed my sip of coffee! Saved my screen from getting wet!…(you’re rolling today I see, so I know not to have food or drink in the area). (:>)

KOOLAID2 on March 27, 2012 at 9:58 AM

Not sure how to take your comment there cozmo. Are you really equating CFLs to calculators and digital watches?

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:44 AM
Fear of something new because you don’t like it.

Meh – so far none of the digital watches I’ve had ever started fuming, sparking, arcing or burning like the Obamabulb did.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 9:45 AM
Neither have any of the CFL’s I have used. And old tech electric heater did once, an oven did once, a shorted outlet did once. Your home is full of things that can catch fire, yet you only fear the CFL.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:49 AM

You are mistaken. We do not fear new technology. In fact, most of us can’t wait to get our hands on it. We resent being told what products we can and can’t use inside our homes. We also resent being fed a line of bull about how this new light bulb will make the world a better place. AND we especially resent being told this new light bulb is a wonderful thing while glossing over the inherently dangerous nature of the bulbs.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM

Thank you President O’bama.

crr6 on May 1, 2011 at 10:45 PM

Del Dolemonte on March 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM

Your home is full of things that can catch fire, yet you only fear the CFL.
cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:49 AM

When my alarm clock starts fuming, emitting harmful elements and causing the lights to blink, it’ll go right into garbage. Feel like doing that quite a few mornings anyway, but starting a CFL-like electrical fire would really move it along.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:01 AM

We resent being told what products we can and can’t use inside our homes.
armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM

Moreso when the “new and improved” PC-product that’s forced on us is a total piece of key-rap.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:03 AM

How many coal mining states does he want to lose? What shall we do with all our coal? Forget about it? Sell it to China? Who needs those jobs, anyway?

Pablo on March 27, 2012 at 9:53 AM

All of them if those states are smart.

The danger of mercury poisoning from a broken CF bulb is real.

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:56 AM

Just like the fluorescent lights that have been around for decades. And the mercury vapor lights that come on every night. How often have you seen kids playing with fluorescent tube like swords? Mercury is all around us every day.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:04 AM

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:03 AM

Amen, brother!

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 10:05 AM

At least it will speed up the demise of the Chevy Volt.

katy the mean old lady on March 27, 2012 at 10:05 AM

AND we especially resent being told this new light bulb is a wonderful thing while glossing over the inherently dangerous nature of the bulbs.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM

Then educate yourself.

CFL-like electrical fire would really move it along.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:01 AM

I’ll make sure not to get my bulbs from wherever you get yours.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:06 AM

November 6th cannot come soon enough.

Move aside, Santorum. There is so much work to be done we cannot afford for you to be running simply to satisfy your ego.

rogaineguy on March 27, 2012 at 10:06 AM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:06 AM

I have educated myself, which is exactly why I am not buying CFLs and hoarding incandescents.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM

I’ll make sure not to get my bulbs from wherever you get yours.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:06 AM

His come from China. Balls in your court.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:11 AM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:06 AM

I also want to be clear, if you feel that the bulbs are a good value for you and you use them, then great. I have no problem with that.
I resent the hell out of someone mandating that I must buy a product that I don’t want and feel is dangerous to have around my home.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 10:11 AM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:06 AM

And then telling me that I must fear new technology because i disagree.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Obama has less interest in producing power than in exercising it, and Congress needs to put shackles on this EPA before working-class families have to start lighting candles rather than flipping on the light switch.

Aha. Obama is in bed with Big Wax.

Bitter Clinger on March 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

This was Obama’s plan all along. Kill the coal-fired plant.

President Obama, “If someone wants to build a coal-fired power plant, they can, it’s just that it will bankrupt them.”

We don’t know how CO2 affects global warming, or whether 2x more will make the temperatures rise 2x more, or 10x will make it rise 10x more. But we do know this will make the price of electricity soar, and people will suffer — the sick, the poor, minorities especially. People will die. Because of a Stalinist, Maoist, Pol Pot-ist “pie in the sky” idea of the perfect society. “Wind and solar power, in our time!” Bulls***.

Paul-Cincy on March 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Try getting gas out of New Mexico . Good luck with that . Gov owns most of the land and what’s left
Is just too darn ” Enchanted ” to sully .

Lucano on March 27, 2012 at 10:15 AM

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Did you immediately remove all fluorescent bulbs, transformers, thermostats smoke detectors and old thermometers from your home as well?

Not to mention tested your paint, your foundation and get rid of all CRT’s (including television)?

Next time try Popular Mechanics or Popular Science, unless you deem them liberal propaganda.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:16 AM

I have educated myself, which is exactly why I am not buying CFLs and hoarding incandescents.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM

I don’t buy them often but not because I fear the technology or am afraid of CFL generated fires. I don’t like the light and I don’t like the government telling me what I can and cannot have. I use CFLs on outside lights that are difficult to get to and rarely change them out. Never had a problem with them. Inside the home it’s all incandescent. I intend to stay that way too. Even if I have to resort to acquiring them illegally.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Aha. Obama is in bed with Big Wax.

Bitter Clinger on March 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Of course he’s in bed with big wax. Just look at those ears!

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:18 AM

I have educated myself, which is exactly why I am not buying CFLs and hoarding incandescents.
armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM

When it comes to CFLs – trust me, it’s not an education you want to get by experience. If you have plenty of time to babysit a CFL so you can be there when it blows and don’t mind the complex cleanup (and attenedant legal requirements), it might be different, I don’t have that sort of time or patience. (Or money to waste).

On the plus side, they do make for interesting variations/expansion on the worn-out “how many —– does it take to change a lightbulb?” joke, given all the attention they need in just such a case.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:19 AM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Good point. These people are afraid of technology. The ones posting comments. On a blog. On the Internet. With their computers.

Jim Treacher on March 27, 2012 at 10:20 AM

When it comes to CFLs – trust me, it’s not an education you want to get by experience. If you have plenty of time to babysit a CFL so you can be there when it blows and don’t mind the complex cleanup (and attenedant legal requirements), it might be different, I don’t have that sort of time or patience. (Or money to waste).

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Would you seriously pay any attention to that silly precautionary horsiht that’s on that package or would you just sweep up the glass and vacuum the floor?

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:21 AM

I resent the hell out of someone mandating that I must buy a product that I don’t want and feel is dangerous to have around my home.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Well, when they first came out I got a few and read up on them (before the whiners came up with all the dangers). I call those who use the mercury in those bulbs and the early transformers in them to call them dangerous “Chicken Littles” Because they are.

I use CFL’s where they work best and incandescents where they work best. Since I made the change over long before the law was passed, it doesn’t hit me like y’all. When my supply of 100 watters runs out I will go to the feed store and get an electric freeze protector (used for chicken coops and rabbit hutches). They are a hundred watts and miraculously fit the same socket as a light bulb.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Would you seriously pay any attention to that silly precautionary horsiht that’s on that package or would you just sweep up the glass and vacuum the floor?

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:21 AM

He would wait for the government supplied hazmat team.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:24 AM

JennM111 on March 27, 2012 at 8:48 AM

I’ll buy fans. I WON’T be turning on the air.
*West Texas sometimes hit 110 in the shade and we’re still suffering from a drought.*

annoyinglittletwerp on March 27, 2012 at 10:26 AM

Greenhouse gas regulations?
Here’s my 2/24 wuwt comment:

Lindzen [MIT professor], aside from saying AGW is “science in the service of politics,” and that “warming would reduce rather than increase tropical storms,” says: “Claims… that man’s activity have contributed to warming are trivially true but essentially meaningless.”
Piers Corbyn, in a comment, takes it further: “Observational evidence gives the possibility that the net effect of CO2 increases on World temperatures may not be ‘only trivial’ but in fact miniscule, zero, or even negative due to errors in some of the science some claim or – I would suggest – hitherto not understood feed-back and competing processes…”
I say that the effect of CO2 doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. Or, to put it another way, I have two main points: 1. there is nothing wrong with the climate (no hockey stick), and 2. CO2 has nothing, or effectively nothing, to do with it (see this 3 minute video that exposes the key ipcc deception and also shows Al Gore to be full of it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK_WyvfcJyg

anotherJoe on March 27, 2012 at 10:26 AM

Would you seriously pay any attention to that silly precautionary horsiht that’s on that package or would you just sweep up the glass and vacuum the floor?
Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Yeah – but then I’m funny that way when it come to deadly toxins exploding in my home.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Yeah – but then I’m funny that way when it come to deadly toxins exploding in my home.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Seeing a CFL as a WMD explains much about you.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:28 AM

We don’t know how CO2 affects global warming, or whether 2x more will make the temperatures rise 2x more, or 10x will make it rise 10x more. But we do know this will make the price of electricity soar, and people will suffer — the sick, the poor, minorities especially. People will die. Because of a Stalinist, Maoist, Pol Pot-ist “pie in the sky” idea of the perfect society. “Wind and solar power, in our time!” Bulls***.

Paul-Cincy on March 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

+1.
Not to mention the economic impact on coal mining states-West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Kentucky. I hope their voters are paying attention and will use this information in November.

talkingpoints on March 27, 2012 at 10:32 AM

Yeah – but then I’m funny that way when it come to deadly toxins exploding in my home.
whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Seeing a CFL as a WMD explains much about you.
cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Eh, just not as comfortable as some folks with mercury permeating my home for some odd reason.
For those who haven’t been so fortunate as to enjoy the wonders of a CFL burnout, here ya go.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:34 AM

changing lightbulbs and more efficient appliance

What?? He’s insane.

PattyJ on March 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:34 AM

All this time you have been arguing it and that’s the best you can come up with?

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Is our Country going completely crazy or what? Do we have governments within governments that have the power to destroy you? Yes, yes and yes. The EPA and the IRS are fat with federal employees and judging from past history the mental power is that of a playground bully. I’m so glad this is an election year and the American people are awake enough to make the necessary changes in November.

mixplix on March 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Is our Country going completely crazy or what? Do we have governments within governments that have the power to destroy you? Yes, yes and yes. The EPA and the IRS are fat with federal employees and judging from past history the mental power is that of a playground bully. I’m so glad this is an election year and the American people are awake enough to make the necessary changes in November.

mixplix on March 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

We hope. Don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched.

Bitter Clinger on March 27, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Here in my county in Western NY they are shutting down our coal plant. That would be okay because we are part of the Marcellus Shale area but NY doesn’t allow fracking and their is a campaign going on to stop fracking from ever happening here. But no worries because we have been told we are a great candidate for a wind farm. But another group of enviros are campaignin against it because they are afraid the birds will fly into the wind turbines.

magicbeans on March 27, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Vlad Lenin:

“The way to destroy the middle class is to grind them between the mill wheels of Taxation and Inflation.”

Barack Obama: The way to destroy the American Middle class is to grind them between Taxation, Inflation and Regulations.

Bulletchaser on March 27, 2012 at 10:45 AM

This mf’er is destroying my quality of life i hate his guts.

tom daschle concerned on March 27, 2012 at 10:45 AM

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:34 AM

All this time you have been arguing it and that’s the best you can come up with?
cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM

I’ve been discussing facts on a specific topic. If you scroll back, you’ll see you were the person going about alarm clocks and wrist watch non sequiturs.

As I noted, if anyone is curious about CFL bulb burn-outs, they can see the experience of others e.g. this and can quite easily research the dangers for themselves.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Yeah – but then I’m funny that way when it come to deadly toxins exploding in my home.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:27 AM

The acute lethal dose for mercury is between 1 and 4 grams. A typical CFL contains 5 milligrams or less. Unless your are eating a significant number of CFLs each day then I suspect that your are in more danger of drowning in a bathtub than getting sick from mercury.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM

And Mitt Romney believes in global warming and supports this? God help us.

Portia46 on March 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Eh, just not as comfortable as some folks with mercury permeating my home for some odd reason.
For those who haven’t been so fortunate as to enjoy the wonders of a CFL burnout, here ya go.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:34 AM

One good link deserves another.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:50 AM

I think Obama’s energy policy should be called the “None of the Above” strategy…

EasyEight on March 27, 2012 at 10:50 AM

As I noted, if anyone is curious about CFL bulb burn-outs, they can see the experience of others e.g. this and can quite easily research the dangers for themselves.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Do you understand what is happening in the two vids you linked, or just fear mongering. Here’s a hint, on the right side of the you-tube page, one of the videos is actually a repeatable experiment done by folks who know what they are doing that explains just what is happening.

I’ll let you find it. Knowledge too easily gained is wasted.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:51 AM

He would wait for the government supplied hazmat team.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:24 AM

You know what I’d really, really like to see? I’d like to see some doofus congress critter drop one of the damnable things on the floor of the senate or house and break it. I’d buy tickets to that circus.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:52 AM

It’s time to NEUTER the EPA!

easyt65 on March 27, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Try getting gas out of New Mexico . Good luck with that . Gov owns most of the land and what’s left
Is just too darn ” Enchanted ” to sully .

Lucano on March 27, 2012 at 10:15 AM

Err.. unless you sully it with millions of acres of solar and wind arrays. Then it’s ok. Small footprint for gas or oil? Not OK. Footprint 1000 times as large for solar and wind? Just build it already.

The argument about driving up the cost of hydrocarbon based energy is only just a very small part of why the left and obama’s energy policy won’t work.

The biggest reason why it won’t work? You can’t produce 1/10th of the nations needed energy with wind and solar for at least a generation and after that, you still can’t get anywhere near a total third. And think of the land use / environmental issues with those 10′s of millions of acres that would have to be dedicated to energy production.

Energy math is apparently something the left can’t do….actually any math.

oldroy on March 27, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Yeah – but then I’m funny that way when it come to deadly toxins exploding in my home.
whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:27 AM

The acute lethal dose for mercury is between 1 and 4 grams. A typical CFL contains 5 milligrams or less. Unless your are eating a significant number of CFLs each day then I suspect that your are in more danger of drowning in a bathtub than getting sick from mercury.
Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Even if that were even remotely true, what you’re totally unaware of is the danger of breathing the mercury of a blown bulb into the lungs. If you had done any research at all you would know that’s quite dangerous.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:55 AM

You know what I’d really, really like to see? I’d like to see some doofus congress critter drop one of the damnable things on the floor of the senate or house and break it. I’d buy tickets to that circus.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Thanks for letting me leave on a humorous note. Gotta’ go mow a couple of lots. Probably strewn with CFL’s that ‘fraidlylittlecattoys have disposed of.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Aha. Obama is in bed with Big Wax.

Bitter Clinger on March 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Nice new name for The Mooch.

Archivarix on March 27, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Even if that were even remotely true, what you’re totally unaware of is the danger of breathing the mercury of a blown bulb into the lungs. If you had done any research at all you would know that’s quite dangerous.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:55 AM

So you think that breaking one CFL bulb would pose a real and present danger?

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM

As I noted, if anyone is curious about CFL bulb burn-outs, they can see the experience of others e.g. this and can quite easily research the dangers for themselves.
whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Do you understand what is happening in the two vids you linked, or just fear mongering. Here’s a hint, on the right side of the you-tube page, one of the videos is actually a repeatable experiment done by folks who know what they are doing that explains just what is happening.
cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:51 AM

If you were able to ever find any video that shows what’s happening to all these people is a lie, I’m certainly up for seeing it.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 11:03 AM

I hope we can change the Occupy the White House crowd come November. What’s the official Mormon view on Global Warming?

Knott Buyinit on March 27, 2012 at 11:03 AM

From the HotAir Headlines…

Global warming models are wrong again

CO2 is not a pollutant. Life on earth flourished for hundreds of millions of years at much higher CO2 levels than we see today. Increasing CO2 levels will be a net benefit because cultivated plants grow better and are more resistant to drought at higher CO2 levels, and because warming and other supposedly harmful effects of CO2 have been greatly exaggerated. Nations with affordable energy from fossil fuels are more prosperous and healthy than those without.

The direct warming due to doubling CO2 levels in the atmosphere can be calculated to cause a warming of about one degree Celsius. The IPCC computer models predict a much larger warming, three degrees Celsius or even more, because they assume changes in water vapor or clouds that supposedly amplify the direct warming from CO2. Many lines of observational evidence suggest that this “positive feedback” also has been greatly exaggerated.

There has indeed been some warming, perhaps about 0.8 degrees Celsius, since the end of the so-called Little Ice Age in the early 1800s. Some of that warming has probably come from increased amounts of CO2, but the timing of the warming—much of it before CO2 levels had increased appreciably—suggests that a substantial fraction of the warming is from natural causes that have nothing to do with mankind.

Read the Article

ITguy on March 27, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Even if that were even remotely true, what you’re totally unaware of is the danger of breathing the mercury of a blown bulb into the lungs. If you had done any research at all you would know that’s quite dangerous.
whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 10:55 AM

So you think that breaking one CFL bulb would pose a real and present danger?
Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Be my guest to experiment with CFLs spewing fire & smoke and inhaling the results. Though I’d suggest making sure your medical premiums are all paid up first.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Brock really does sound like a total idiot. A dangerous one.

this is going to cost us eight trillion dollars,” or whatever their number is

He has no grasp of math at all and even if he did he wouldn’t give a rip.

CorporatePiggy on March 27, 2012 at 11:06 AM

As for CFLs, they are horrific and toxic. Apparently 11% of the average electricity bill is spent on lighting. I have never noticed any cost saving from using those things. In fact, given that they cost several times more than an incandescent and never last the advertised 5 years…they probably cost more in toto.

But it’s made GM some money and that’s what matters.

CorporatePiggy on March 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Thanks to a clause in the “Stimulus Bill” it is unlawful for a contractor to make a penetration in an interior wall without treating it as being contaminated with lead if the building was built before lead paint was banned.

This is an OSHA thing so do it yourselfers are okay, only contractors are regulated.

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Twenty years down the road all the trees are going to start dying from a lack of carbon dioxide. I do wonder how truly expensive it would be to get the lbs. per megawatt down, technology has come a long way, look at mpg on cars. Anyway, wouldn’t it be better to give companies tax breaks or bonuses to meet the goals?

Cindy Munford on March 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Actually, I am not concerned about the mercury in CFL’s but turnabout on inane warnings and a$$ covering is fair play.

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Oh, and have I mentioned how much I loathe our fearless leader lately?

Cindy Munford on March 27, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Is there no male who as a teen did not play “Sword fighting” with a long flourescent tube?

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 11:11 AM

1st they came for the Jews which can be translated to 1st they came for coal. If AGA has lobbied for this regulation just like Enron lobbied in the 1990′s, guess what…

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Thanks to a clause in the “Stimulus Bill” it is unlawful for a contractor to make a penetration in an interior wall without treating it as being contaminated with lead if the building was built before lead paint was banned.

This is an OSHA thing so do it yourselfers are okay, only contractors are regulated.

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

There’s an out. You can test for lead before starting. Kits run 7 to 30 bucks. My daughter is going through this right now replacing windows. If there’s lead present it’ll cost $45 more per window. Anther way around it is to hire a local handy man who doesn’t pay much attention to the EPA.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

There you go cozmo, I was ready to give you a pass. Then you departed with this.
Sigh

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Twenty years down the road all the trees are going to start dying from a lack of carbon dioxide.

Cindy Munford on March 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Trees been around for a long time. They survived just fine before man came along. They’ll probably be here long after we’re gone. Man is just too full of himself, especially liberal man. We’re pretty insignificant overall. A fact that will come home to you if you’re ever in a hurricane at sea.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Once again, it’s not about a balance between prosperity and ecology. It’s an exercise in absolute control by a central authority.

The only question is why do those on the Left believe that unmitigated growth in the State will never become dangerous to the Left. Masochism? Zealotry? Lust for power?

chimney sweep on March 27, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Why does JugEars hate the dwindling middle-class so much?
He loves the poor…he keeps trying to increase their numbers.

KOOLAID2 on March 27, 2012 at 8:49 AM

Jugears doesn’t love the poor. That’s another smoke screen he puts up. Jugears just loves…..well……Jugears. He is so reminiscent of Hitler and Mussolini….and…….

timberline on March 27, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:17 AM

I was being a smartazz, something catastrophic like that would be the only thing that could convince liberal that they are wrong. And then it would just be a miscalculation.

Cindy Munford on March 27, 2012 at 11:25 AM

The only question is why do those on the Left believe that unmitigated growth in the State will never become dangerous to the Left. Masochism? Zealotry? Lust for power?

chimney sweep on March 27, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Simple answers are always best. It’s because they’re stupid.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:27 AM

You know who else closed coal power plants? Mitt Romney.

Here is a video of him from 2003 boasting about doing just that, as he will not allow power plants to kill people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BpgLYryI8g

angryed on March 27, 2012 at 11:28 AM

I was being a smartazz, something catastrophic like that would be the only thing that could convince liberal that they are wrong. And then it would just be a miscalculation.

Cindy Munford on March 27, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Read “Fallen Angels” by Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven. It’s a hoot, you’ll get a kick out of it.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:30 AM

The acute lethal dose for mercury is between 1 and 4 grams. A typical CFL contains 5 milligrams or less. Unless your are eating a significant number of CFLs each day then I suspect that your are in more danger of drowning in a bathtub than getting sick from mercury.
Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM

The acute lethal dose of rat poison is X. Would you eat x/1000 rat poison every now and then just for kicks? Why not?

angryed on March 27, 2012 at 11:31 AM

x/100 that is, not x/1000

angryed on March 27, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Actually, I am not concerned about the mercury in CFL’s but turnabout on inane warnings and a$$ covering is fair play.
Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Even setting aside the danger from toxins, a really huge problem is that when CFLs “burn out”, they literally “burn out” – they don’t just die like normal bulbs do. It’s smoke, fumes, sparks, arcing, sometimes an outright fire.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 11:34 AM

So let’s see – Obummer is making oil/gasoline more expensive by limiting drilling and pipelines so green electric looks better by comparison; he pushes limited range electric cars to get away from gasoline; but he’s also shutting down power plants to limit CO2 – forcing electric rates to go up. So in total gas prices go up, electricity rates go up, supply of energy across the board goes down. So even if you’re dumb enough to buy a Volt, you won’t be able to afford to put electricity or gas in it.
Does that sound like he’s looking out for our best interests?
(rhetorical question for the libtard trolls)

dentarthurdent on March 27, 2012 at 11:46 AM

The acute lethal dose of rat poison is X. Would you eat x/1000 rat poison every now and then just for kicks? Why not?

angryed on March 27, 2012 at 11:31 AM

No and I wouldn’t eat a CFL either. Neither would I go through all that horsiht that’s written in the precautionary label. If I broke one of the damned things I’d sweep up the glass and any loose residue then I’d wipe the area with a damp cloth. About the same thing I’d do if I spilled rat poison.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:48 AM

If the media would tell the truth about the things Ojugears is doing that will impact them negatively, the members of his base of voters would run from him as if he had the plague.

The Ojugears Doctrine of killing industries that he doesn’t like is going to make life for the poorest among us much worse, unless he “Robin Hoods” his way into giving more of other people’s money to his lemming-like believers. Of course, this is what they have expected from him all along. However, the problems with this approach are numerous even if you believe in the Socialist Bullspit, among them the fact that the House controls the purse strings, and the fact that if you keep robbing Peter to pay Paul, pretty soon Peter is going to take is money elsewhere or otherwise be broke. Talk about unsustainable.

hillbillyjim on March 27, 2012 at 11:53 AM

We don’t know how CO2 affects global warming, or whether 2x more will make the temperatures rise 2x more, or 10x will make it rise 10x more.

Paul-Cincy on March 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Yes we do!!!

So your conclusion is even more correct than you represented it to be.

The AGW theory has FLUNKED basic scientific testing: it is NOT VALID!!! In fact, AGW theory is now in the same category as “Flat Earth theory”!!!

It is long PAST TIME to stop funding government efforts to misrepresent failed theory as fact, and repeal ALL laws and regulations built upon the proven-false AGW theory!!!

landlines on March 27, 2012 at 11:53 AM

This is an OSHA thing so do it yourselfers are okay, only contractors are regulated.

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Government has tripled the cost of many home repairs. Things a contractor would have done as an “off the books” or weekend job among friends are no longer done because of the penalties a contractor can face.

There you go cozmo, I was ready to give you a pass. Then you departed with this.
Sigh

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Never give me a pass on anything. Y’all are practice for when I go up against the real enemy…socialist totalitarians…

If you noticed I never went after you personally, just went after your beliefs and let you decide for yourself.

whattasillycattoy, on the other hand is a Perry hatin’ nutball that misrepresented Perry’s record and the state of Texas (if he had just stuck with Perry, he would have okay). I remember those nutballs. Don’t mess with Texas is the gripping hand.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 11:54 AM

angryed on March 27, 2012 at 11:28 AM

People also forget it was Romney’s AG in in Mass V. EPA. Mass wanted to force the EPA to regulate CO2. A landmark 5-4 SCOTUS decision, Mass V. EPA. Who is Gina McCarthy?

And who was the Governor who signed the first ever CO2 as a pollutant bill to shut down coal fired plants? Who’s climate Climate Protection bill is this?

batterup on March 27, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Even setting aside the danger from toxins, a really huge problem is that when CFLs “burn out”, they literally “burn out” – they don’t just die like normal bulbs do. It’s smoke, fumes, sparks, arcing, sometimes an outright fire.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 11:34 AM

I see you didn’t bother to overcome your ignorance with the link oldnuke provided. He made it easy, I will just continue to laugh at your unwillingness to educate yourself.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Alternate headline: Congress Declared Totally Irrelevant

The Rogue Tomato on March 27, 2012 at 11:59 AM

We don’t know how CO2 affects global warming, or whether 2x more will make the temperatures rise 2x more, or 10x will make it rise 10x more.
Paul-Cincy on March 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Yes we do!!!

So your conclusion is even more correct than you represented it to be.
The AGW theory has FLUNKED basic scientific testing: it is NOT VALID!!! In fact, AGW theory is now in the same category as “Flat Earth theory”!!!
It is long PAST TIME to stop funding government efforts to misrepresent failed theory as fact, and repeal ALL laws and regulations built upon the proven-false AGW theory!!!

landlines on March 27, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Landlines got to this one before I did.
Paul-Cincy – yes we do know how much warming CO2 causes – NONE. The data, when presnted honestly and accurately, clearly shows that rise in CO2 FOLLOWS warming. That measn CO2 does not cause warming – it means warming causes an increase in CO2.

dentarthurdent on March 27, 2012 at 12:00 PM

We have several lights in the house that are on timers, so if there is no one at home the place still looks occupied. Given the fire hazard, I can’t trust those spots to CFL’s. When an incandescent bulb goes out, it doesn’t take your home with it.

slickwillie2001 on March 27, 2012 at 12:02 PM

whattasillycattoy, on the other hand is a Perry hatin’ nutball
cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Well, I for one am sure glad you’re sticking to reason and the demonstrated facts re: CFL burnouts rather than being dependent on misguided emotions. In the meantime, I’m keeping an eye on that uber-dangerous grandfather clock I have in the corner – never know when it’s gonna blow. If my watch doesn’t start spewing toxic fumes first, of course. Priorities.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 12:13 PM

I haven’t had a CFL burn up when it burns out – but then I only have one installed and that’s in a front yard light that’s on from sunset to sunrise every night – outside, away from the house. I gave the CFL a try there because the incandescents burned out about every few months. So far the CFLs have lasted about 2 years. For the price though, I have not seen a significant advantage other than changing it less often.
I will not put CFLs inside the house because they cost too much and don’t save enough, and I don’t like BS government mandates.

dentarthurdent on March 27, 2012 at 12:13 PM

It’s time to shut down the EPA. They are completely out of control.

Enough of the climate hoax crap.

dogsoldier on March 27, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Obama has less interest in producing power than in exercising it, and Congress needs to put shackles on this EPA before working-class families have to start lighting candles rather than flipping on the light switch.

When he’s done with the big outfits, his EPA will turn to John Doe with laser beam focus. Can’t burn wood for heat — CO2. Can’t burn candles for lights — CO2 and so on. They will not stop until they have elinated every source of man-created C02

AH_C on March 27, 2012 at 12:21 PM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 11:54 AM

If you go back to what I said, my main complaint about CFLs is the mandate to use them. I don’t like that they contain mercury and if they are broken they release mercury powder. I’m quite sure I won’t die from cleaning up one of them broken, but I tend to break things and over time, that could be hazardous to my health.
When you first jumped in, it was to paint those of us who reject using them uneducated neanderthals that feared new technology.
I never called you names, you on the other hand did.
I still give you a pass. Feel free to use any product that you would like, just don’t insinuate that others who disagree with you are less intelligent.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 12:22 PM

UNITED NATIONS — Bolivia will this month table a draft United Nations treaty giving “Mother Earth” the same rights as humans — having just passed a domestic law that does the same for bugs, trees and all other natural things in the South American country.

The bid aims to have the UN recognize the Earth as a living entity that humans have sought to “dominate and exploit” — to the point that the “well-being and existence of many beings” is now threatened.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:16 AM

So, will Mother Earth also be liable for prosecution for things like murder, property damage, etc whenever there’s a natural disaster of any sort? Can they build a prison big enough, I wonder. G-d forbid she commit a capital offense…

affenhauer on March 27, 2012 at 12:26 PM

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Thanks, I’ll look into it, I need all the laughs I can get.

Cindy Munford on March 27, 2012 at 12:27 PM

They will not stop until they have elinated every source of man-created C02

AH_C on March 27, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Then they had better stop us from exhaling after inhaling. You know, breathing. Luddite freaks.

totherightofthem on March 27, 2012 at 12:27 PM

be liable for prosecution for

shoulda been subject to — grammar police self-arrest…

affenhauer on March 27, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Honey, I went easy on you because you have potential…even after saying the prayer with cattoy. Oldnuke doesn’t like CFL’s but he knows about them. Probably more than me. I don’t give a rats rear end what somebody thinks of a CFL. Playing the fear card is is what lefty’s do. In the case of CFL’s, its stupid.

You are the one that brought up inherent dangers. Do you own a microwave oven or cell phone? Both are more inherently dangerous than a CFL.

Not sure how to take your comment there cozmo. Are you really equating CFLs to calculators and digital watches?

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:44 AM

Fear of something new because you don’t like it.

AND we especially resent being told this new light bulb is a wonderful thing while glossing over the inherently dangerous nature of the bulbs.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM

Then educate yourself.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 10:06 AM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Dangit, left this out:

When you first jumped in, it was to paint those of us who reject using them uneducated neanderthals that feared new technology.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 12:22 PM

If you thought I was calling you names, that’s your take on it.

When I call you names, there will be no question.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 12:37 PM

When I call you names, there will be no question.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 12:37 PM

I seen it with me own eyes. It was awe inspiring.

arnold ziffel on March 27, 2012 at 12:43 PM

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