EPA to kill new coal-fired plants through first-ever greenhouse-gas regulations

posted at 8:40 am on March 27, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

If you thought gas prices will never stop rising, just wait until you see what happens to electricity after the Barack Obama’s EPA gets its way.  The agency will deliver on Obama’s election promise to bankrupt any new coal-fired electrical production in its first-ever regulations on greenhouse-gas emissions, the Washington Post reports.  The new regulatory regime will all but guarantee that new coal-fired plants won’t be built to replace others shutting down:

The Environmental Protection Agency will issue the first limits on greenhouse gas emissions from new power plants as early as Tuesday, according to several people briefed on the proposal. The move could end the construction of conventional coal-fired facilities in the United States.

The proposed rule — years in the making and approved by the White House after months of review — will require any new power plant to emit no more than 1,000 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt of electricity produced. The average U.S. natural gas plant, which emits 800 to 850 pounds of CO2 per megawatt, meets that standard; coal plants emit an average of 1,768 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt.

Industry officials and environmentalists said in interviews that the rule, which comes on the heels of tough new requirements that the Obama administration imposed on mercury emissions and cross-state pollution from utilities within the past year, dooms any proposal to build a coal-fired plant that does not have costly carbon controls.

“This standard effectively bans new coal plants,” said Joseph Stanko, who heads government relations at the law firm Hunton and Williams and represents several utility companies. “So I don’t see how that is an ‘all of the above’ energy policy.”

Well, it’s not, obviously.  Nor has Obama ever honestly intended to apply an “all of the above” energy policy; he mouths the words, but his actions are hostile to hydrocarbon-based energy.  The most honest discussion on energy policy from Obama came in the January 2008 interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, in which he promised to bankrupt new coal-based facilities:

The problem is not technical, uh, and the problem is not mastery of the legislative intricacies of Washington. The problem is, uh, can you get the American people to say, “This is really important,” and force their representatives to do the right thing? That requires mobilizing a citizenry. That requires them understanding what is at stake. Uh, and climate change is a great example.

You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know — Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad. Because I’m capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it — whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.

They — you — you can already see what the arguments will be during the general election. People will say, “Ah, Obama and Al Gore, these folks, they’re going to destroy the economy, this is going to cost us eight trillion dollars,” or whatever their number is. Um, if you can’t persuade the American people that yes, there is going to be some increase in electricity rates on the front end, but that over the long term, because of combinations of more efficient energy usage, changing lightbulbs and more efficient appliance, but also technology improving how we can produce clean energy, the economy would benefit.

If we can’t make that argument persuasively enough, you — you, uh, can be Lyndon Johnson, you can be the master of Washington. You’re not going to get that done.

This leads us to the natural-gas option mentioned by the Post.  The response might be, “Well, okay, Obama’s bankrupting the coal industry, but we can still use natural gas.”  That’s only true if we can get the natural gas.  The EPA has also begun blocking the use of hydraulic fracturing, better known as fracking, which allows for massive improvement in extraction and access to vast amounts of natural gas. Note well that Obama included natural gas among those sources to which his policies would be hostile, and so far he’s proving it.

Obama has no interest in an “all of the above” policy on energy.  He wants to drive up energy costs in order to make his favored alternatives somewhat competitive, even though none of them can match the production scope of hydrocarbon sources that are found in abundance in the US.  Obama has less interest in producing power than in exercising it, and Congress needs to put shackles on this EPA before working-class families have to start lighting candles rather than flipping on the light switch.


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“If you love your electric appliance, you can keep your electric appliance.”

Archivarix on March 27, 2012 at 8:43 AM

And as your electric bill goes up, let’s all repeat in unison, “President Obama stands for the working class American”.

hawkdriver on March 27, 2012 at 8:44 AM

We learned this from the 19th century with the railroads about the government picking the winners and losers.

Obama; building robber barons one at a time.

itsspideyman on March 27, 2012 at 8:44 AM

Oh don’t worry so much. We’ll just use unicorn farts to drive windmills and the brilliance of The Won is so great that he’ll keep the solar plants going during the night.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 8:45 AM

Which law authorized the EPA to unilaterally declare a natural component of the atmosphere to be a pollutant?

forest on March 27, 2012 at 8:45 AM

223 days of misery left….

hillsoftx on March 27, 2012 at 8:46 AM

“If you love your electric appliance, you can keep your electric appliance.”

Archivarix on March 27, 2012 at 8:43 AM

This was clever and funny.

hawkdriver on March 27, 2012 at 8:46 AM

Could the EPA declare that grain crops are a pollutant and start ‘regulating’ banning them? Seriously, the farming of grain causes more demonstrable environmental impact than CO2.

forest on March 27, 2012 at 8:47 AM

This is all based on the lie that carbon dioxide CAUSES global warming, which is a determination the EPA made ITSELF.

If this stands, before long our night sky will look like North Korea: lights on where our rulers live but nowhere else.

wildcat72 on March 27, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Well, since we live in TX and have electric AC, I guess in the summer we can all expect to have heat stroke because we’ll never be able to afford to run the AC. In the 5 years we’ve lived in our house, the monthly bills have already doubled.

JennM111 on March 27, 2012 at 8:48 AM

“Ah, Obama and Al Gore, these folks, they’re going to destroy the economy,

Why can’t people realize that when someone mentions destroying the economy – they really mean it.

Colbyjack on March 27, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Why does JugEars hate the dwindling middle-class so much?
He loves the poor…he keeps trying to increase their numbers.

KOOLAID2 on March 27, 2012 at 8:49 AM

Which law authorized the EPA to unilaterally declare a natural component of the atmosphere to be a pollutant?

forest on March 27, 2012 at 8:45 AM

Don’t have the citation off-hand, but if memory serves SCOTUS, in interpreting the Clean Air Act, said that the EPA could regulate CO2 if it classified it as a pollutant.

I’m just talking from memory, and I didn’t read the case in its entirety, so perhaps the other attorneys around here could correct or confirm what I just wrote.

As an aside, I really can’t stand these bureaucrats and this administration.

totherightofthem on March 27, 2012 at 8:49 AM

Funny, there’s a “socially responsible” IRA investment Fund Domini advert on this thread.

I’ll pass if they invest in firms like Solyndra.

hawkdriver on March 27, 2012 at 8:49 AM

Could the EPA declare that grain crops are a pollutant and start ‘regulating’ banning them? Seriously, the farming of grain causes more demonstrable environmental impact than CO2.

forest on March 27, 2012 at 8:47 AM

They already have with respect to cows. Cow farts emit methane and are considered pollutants. Of course, this is part of the vegi-nazi effort to make meat illegal or too expensive.

But yes, your premise is correct. If the EPA can unilaterally declare something a pollutant and then set it’s own limits on that “pollutant” it basically has no limits whatsoever to what it can make illegal, and thus there is no limit or restraint on it’s power.

wildcat72 on March 27, 2012 at 8:50 AM

EPA=War on Women!

KOOLAID2 on March 27, 2012 at 8:50 AM

Overhead costs for every company will also go way up, and manufacturing will really be hit hard. One effect no doubt will be to drive yet more American manufacturing to China, where they use coal to generate electricity… Rising cost of living, loss of jobs, but no net impact on greenhouse gas emissions but heh, let’s ‘transform’ America.

ProfessorMiao on March 27, 2012 at 8:51 AM

That’s OK, once the health insurance madate is declared Constitutional, Congress can force us all into the “smart grids” so the government can control how much electricity we can have in our homes and businesses.

rockmom on March 27, 2012 at 8:52 AM

They’re going to create an energy crisis, blame it on capitalism then propose a fascist solution to a problem of their own making.

Wigglesworth on March 27, 2012 at 8:52 AM

Why does JugEars hate the dwindling middle-class so much?
He loves the poor…he keeps trying to increase their numbers.

KOOLAID2 on March 27, 2012 at 8:49 AM

The Jug Eared Jar-Jar only likes two kinds of people:

1. Ultra rich people who give him campaign money
2. People forced into slavery on his dependency plantation

He is DELIBERATELY DESTROYING the middle class (while blaming that destruction on Republicans, George W. Bush, Bozo the Clown, anyone) to force them on the dole.

wildcat72 on March 27, 2012 at 8:52 AM

The agency will deliver on Obama’s election promise to bankrupt any new coal-fired electrical production…

Don’t worry folks…
China will build replacements….in China.

Darn Global Warming….it’s so….global.

Electrongod on March 27, 2012 at 8:52 AM

…and Congress needs to put shackles on this EPA before working-class families have to start lighting candles rather than flipping on the light switch.

Umm, excuse me but what planet are you from. When has Congress demonstrated the least interest in putting the shackles on anyone but the common man?

Cleombrotus on March 27, 2012 at 8:53 AM

But yes, your premise is correct. If the EPA can unilaterally declare something a pollutant and then set it’s own limits on that “pollutant” it basically has no limits whatsoever to what it can make illegal, and thus there is no limit or restraint on it’s power.

wildcat72 on March 27, 2012 at 8:50 AM

Unfortunately, in this case the EPA was sued by some environmental extremists and the courts ruled that EPA has the power to regulate greenhouse gases as a pollutant under the Clean Air Act. Only Congress can fix this by amending the CAA.

rockmom on March 27, 2012 at 8:53 AM

Why does JugEars hate the dwindling middle-class so much?
He loves the poor…he keeps trying to increase their numbers.

KOOLAID2 on March 27, 2012 at 8:49 AM

He’s a communist, and communism is a system which dictates equality for all but actualizes two social classes – the wealthy elite who wield all the power, and shared poverty among all the rest.

ProfessorMiao on March 27, 2012 at 8:54 AM

Actively hostile to the American economy.

rbj on March 27, 2012 at 8:55 AM

This is but another example for all those morons out there who think this is just politics as usual and who say they will stay home if Romney is the nominee.

Wake up, people, wake up!!

NickDeringer on March 27, 2012 at 8:55 AM

Unfortunately, in this case the EPA was sued by some environmental extremists and the courts ruled that EPA has the power to regulate greenhouse gases as a pollutant under the Clean Air Act. Only Congress can fix this by amending the CAA.

rockmom on March 27, 2012 at 8:53 AM

And that is a ruling that should be nullified based on the fact that it’s been revealed that the “evidence” of CO2 having anything to do with global warming was complete fraud.

The nutters who brought that case to SCOTUS should be held in contempt of court and jailed.

wildcat72 on March 27, 2012 at 8:56 AM

That’s OK, once the health insurance madate is declared Constitutional, Congress can force us all into the “smart grids” so the government can control how much electricity we can have in our homes and businesses.

rockmom on March 27, 2012 at 8:52 AM

When that happens then there will be two kinds of people left in the US. Slaves and criminals. Can I interest you in a smart meter that will let you have all the electricity that you want and indicate that those fake solar panels I sold you are making enough electricity that the electric company owes you money?

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 8:57 AM

I’m still upset on the casuistry concerning oil supply and prices.

An AP “Fact Check” released earlier this month claimed that domestic drilling doesn’t drop gas prices, stating:

A statistical analysis of 36 years of monthly, inflation –adjusted, gasoline prices and U.S. domestic oil production by the Associated Press shows no statistical correlation between how much oil comes out of U.S. wells and the price at the pump.

This analysis-come-editorial confirms Mark Twain’s observation that “if you don’t read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed.” The AP attempts to use a disconnected statistic, domestic production, to make an erroneous correlation to counter arguments in favor of more U.S. exploration and development. In doing so, the wire service offers the public a political statement in place of objective analysis.

Source:

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2012/03/26/gas-price-history-lesson-drop-in-us-oil-drilling-coincided-with-energy-cost-jump/

IlikedAUH2O on March 27, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Don’t worry folks…
Obama will have more flexibility after he is elected.
:(

Electrongod on March 27, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Barack said he’d do it.

SouthernGent on March 27, 2012 at 8:59 AM

Barack said he’d do it.

SouthernGent on March 27, 2012 at 8:59 AM

Yep. One of the two times he didn’t lie. Too bad no one listened.

totherightofthem on March 27, 2012 at 9:01 AM

I’m reminded of the think tanks deciding policy from Atlas Shrugged. Stupidity or objective oriented?

hawkdriver on March 27, 2012 at 9:01 AM

This is all based on the lie that carbon dioxide CAUSES global warming, which is a determination the EPA made ITSELF.

wildcat72 on March 27, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Is this finally proof we’re NOT causing global warming? The whole of the Earth heated up in medieval times without human CO2 emissions, says new study

petefrt on March 27, 2012 at 9:01 AM

Barack said he’d do it.

SouthernGent on March 27, 2012 at 8:59 AM

Absolutely, which is why I can’t understand how he got elected in the first place. This upcoming election is not about politics it’s about survival. We will not survive four more years of The Won.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 9:02 AM

This is but another example for all those morons out there who think this is just politics as usual and who say they will stay home if Romney is the nominee.
NickDeringer on March 27, 2012 at 8:55 AM

Priorities! There’s buggery going on some people’s bedrooms!!1!11!!! Cant have that!111!!!!

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 9:02 AM

I’m voting for that guy who wants to eliminate the EPA.

forest on March 27, 2012 at 9:02 AM

That’s OK, once the health insurance madate is declared Constitutional, Congress can force us all into the “smart grids” so the government can control how much electricity we can have in our homes and businesses.

rockmom on March 27, 2012 at 8:52 AM

Biden has already twice lauded technology that would allow your electricity provider to set your thermostat for you.

Because you might be dumb enough to use your AC in summer or your heat in winter. And that’s bad.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on March 27, 2012 at 9:03 AM

Barack said he’d do it.

SouthernGent on March 27, 2012 at 8:59 AM

Yep…

And the people wanted it..
Next up…
More beachfront property..

Electrongod on March 27, 2012 at 9:03 AM

“Lighting candles”???

Haven’t you heard?

The EPA has banned candles, being a carbon based combustion device with no integral carbon dioxide scrubber.

Time to start catching fireflies. Lots of ‘em.

Noncentsical on March 27, 2012 at 9:07 AM

We are seeing the effects of EPA regulations in Texas already. Several coal fired plants have shut down and several others are shutting down soon. For now, we have plenty of natural gas, but that will be deemed a pollutant soon as well.
Farmers had problems last summer during the drought being cited for dust blowing off their fields and polluting the air.
I am hoarding incandescent bulbs. I refuse to use CF bulbs. No one has made a compelling case to me that spending $10 for some crappy bulb will make one scintilla of difference in the temperature in July in Texas.
Screw ‘em. I say make ‘em come in my home and force me to change light bulbs! Not happenin’.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Which law authorized the EPA to unilaterally declare a natural component of the atmosphere to be a pollutant?

forest on March 27, 2012 at 8:45 AM

And even more importantly, where is the constitutional authorization for that law?!

gryphon202 on March 27, 2012 at 9:08 AM

That’s ok, I never really liked modern conveniences anyhow.

Nope, give me a peat hut to live in, a hole to crap in, tallow candles for light, and I’m golden.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Barack said he’d do it.

SouthernGent on March 27, 2012 at 8:59 AM

JugEars thinks he’s Larry the Cable Guy…he tells his Czars everyday…GIT-R-Done!

KOOLAID2 on March 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Haven’t you heard?

The EPA has banned candles, being a carbon based combustion device with no integral carbon dioxide scrubber.

Time to start catching fireflies. Lots of ‘em.

PETA would never allow sentient creatures like fireflies to be enslaved for the convenience of humans.

Time to start collecting phosphorescent rocks.

MidniteRambler on March 27, 2012 at 9:11 AM

all none of the above…”

“but, but the Europeans…”

mickytx on March 27, 2012 at 9:11 AM

JugEars thinks he’s Larry the Cable Guy…he tells his Czars everyday…GIT-R-Done!

KOOLAID2 on March 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM

LOL

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:11 AM

Which law authorized the EPA to unilaterally declare a natural component of the atmosphere to be a pollutant?

forest on March 27, 2012 at 8:45 AM

For that matter, what constitutional authority does the EPA have for its existence?!

gryphon202 on March 27, 2012 at 9:11 AM

over the long term, because of combinations of more efficient energy usage, changing lightbulbs and more efficient appliance, but also technology improving how we can produce clean energy, the economy would benefit.

A few years ago I bought one of those (then) $8 “energy-efficient” lightbulbs after reading about how they would last for years and use far less electricity than traditional bulbs. I used it in an overhead light that is turned on, at most, for a couple of hours a day. The bulb burned out in the third month.

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:12 AM

Everything Obama does and says makes perfect sense once you realize he views America as an enemy.

weew on March 27, 2012 at 9:13 AM

A few years ago I bought one of those (then) $8 “energy-efficient” lightbulbs after reading about how they would last for years and use far less electricity than traditional bulbs. I used it in an overhead light that is turned on, at most, for a couple of hours a day. The bulb burned out in the third month.

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:12 AM

My grandson came home from fourth grade telling all about the virtues of CF bulbs. His teacher had told them that the bulbs were more expensive but that they lasted longer. I asked him if the teacher had told the class that if the bulbs broke that they would put poison all over the room where it broke and that it had to be cleaned up in a special way so that the people in the home weren’t hurt. He, of course, said no, she hadn’t told them that.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:16 AM

PETA would never allow sentient creatures like fireflies to be enslaved for the convenience of humans.

Time to start collecting phosphorescent rocks.

MidniteRambler on March 27, 2012 at 9:11 AM

Sorry, no.

UNITED NATIONS — Bolivia will this month table a draft United Nations treaty giving “Mother Earth” the same rights as humans — having just passed a domestic law that does the same for bugs, trees and all other natural things in the South American country.

The bid aims to have the UN recognize the Earth as a living entity that humans have sought to “dominate and exploit” — to the point that the “well-be

ing and existence of many beings” is now threatened.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:16 AM

Biden has already twice lauded technology that would allow your electricity provider to set your thermostat for you.

Because you might be dumb enough to use your AC in summer or your heat in winter. And that’s bad.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on March 27, 2012 at 9:03 AM

That’s the endgame here. Obviously there’s no way solar and wind can power the entire US grid. And if the EPA is making coal and natural gas more scarce, that will inevitably lead to less energy being available to Americans. If you listened to Plouffe on the Sunday morning talk shows this weekend, he specifically cited as one of the keys to the Obama energy policy that we need to consume less. That’s gonna eventually be implemented by force. We’ll be capped at how much energy we can use in our homes as well as our place of employment(assuming any of us still have jobs).

Of course as usual our politicians and bureaucrats don’t think these things through to their logical conclusion. When the public revolts against the government, I hope everyone in DC has a good hiding place.

Doughboy on March 27, 2012 at 9:16 AM

I think Ron Paul is the only candidate who suggested to abolish EPA outright. But of course, he’s a crazy one…

Archivarix on March 27, 2012 at 9:17 AM

I am glad Obama cares about the poor – down trodden who need help from the 1% ers…

The increased cost will be passed down to these folks, along with increased Gov subsidized energy payments, on inflated dollars.

Man that AA hire sure is smart. Can’t wait for the Pennsylvania morons to vote for this clown again.

Odie1941 on March 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM

A few years ago I bought one of those (then) $8 “energy-efficient” lightbulbs after reading about how they would last for years and use far less electricity than traditional bulbs. I used it in an overhead light that is turned on, at most, for a couple of hours a day. The bulb burned out in the third month.
AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:12 AM

My experience was different – like your Obamabulb, it only worked for a short while but the sucker nearly caused a short when it died and started to burn – which I found out later is common for Obamabulbs. Had to air out the place for hours due the mercury hazard.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Obama has no interest in an “all of the above” policy on energy.

Wrong. He most certainly is interested! He has lots of “friends” in the “enviro community” who would just love it were the US to return to the 14th century. These people want the buffalo to return to the mid-west prairie in their historic numbers. This is a policy the “enviros” have been perusing since the 80s.

I might mention that these same enviro people are led by the super rich who do not work for money but have inherited it – so tax policy means nothing to them personally – it is just a theory to them, they are so far removed from reality.

So break out your teepees and sharpen your stone arrow heads and spears – buffalo will be your new staple.

All hail the Great Leader who drove the evil power companies out of business and returned us to Gaia.

Friendly21 on March 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Is this finally proof we’re NOT causing global warming? The whole of the Earth heated up in medieval times without human CO2 emissions, says new study

petefrt on March 27, 2012 at 9:01 AM

This has been a LONG KNOWN historic fact that was covered up in the infamous “hockey stick”.

It was also much warmer during the height of the Roman Empire (they had vineyards in Britain). Indeed, cooling in the period of Late Antiquity (400′s to the islamic invasions of the 600′s) probably played a role in the collapse of the Roman Empire.

Then it got warmer again during the height of the Medieval period then the “Little Ice Age” started in the 1300′s. Want to know why the Vikings didn’t STAY and settle North America after founding colonies in Iceland and Greenland in the 1000′s? The Little Ice Age was the reason. By the 1300′s it was too icy to easily reach those colonies from Scandinavia and they were left on their own. The settlers on Greenland died off by the 1400′s and they BARELY survived in Iceland.

wildcat72 on March 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM

And if the EPA is making coal and natural gas more scarce, that will inevitably lead to less energy being available to Americans. If you listened to Plouffe on the Sunday morning talk shows this weekend, he specifically cited as one of the keys to the Obama energy policy that we need to consume less. That’s gonna eventually be implemented by force. We’ll be capped at how much energy we can use in our homes as well as our place of employment(assuming any of us still have jobs).

We will look like the USSR rationing everything. I hope the American people won’t stand for it, but if we are focused on free contraception, then this kind of thing could get overlooked until it is too late.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:20 AM

My grandson came home from fourth grade telling all about the virtues of CF bulbs. His teacher had told them that the bulbs were more expensive but that they lasted longer. I asked him if the teacher had told the class that if the bulbs broke that they would put poison all over the room where it broke and that it had to be cleaned up in a special way so that the people in the home weren’t hurt. He, of course, said no, she hadn’t told them that.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:16 AM

Of course not.

Priscilla on March 27, 2012 at 9:20 AM

A. SCOTUS has ruled that CO2 is a GHG pollutant.

B. Modern Coal fired plants which scrubbed boiler exhaust is under 1000.

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 9:21 AM

I work at a utility and I can tell you all but the most important coal plants are being slated for demolition. It’s ridiculous of course, especially since all projections show power demand going up…and power production at a plateau and even decreasing, since building new plants is almost non-existent except a few new natural gas plants. Those of course could also be eliminated at the whim of the EPA.

A part of me hopes it does get really bad, just to show the American people the type of people running Washington and how much power they’ve grabbed for themselves. I look forward to the future where many people currently in power, even long after they’re out of power, will be arrested for corruption.

Blacksoda on March 27, 2012 at 9:21 AM

I’m voting for that guy who wants to eliminate the EPA.

forest on March 27, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Me, too.

I am hoarding incandescent bulbs. I refuse to use CF bulbs. No one has made a compelling case to me that spending $10 for some crappy bulb will make one scintilla of difference in the temperature in July in Texas.
Screw ‘em. I say make ‘em come in my home and force me to change light bulbs! Not happenin’.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Me, too, again. I’ve read so many stories about the problems with CFLs, from the hazmat issues if one breaks to the potential for whole house-engulfing fires, that I refuse to have them in my house at all. So the stockpiling continues.

PatriotGal2257 on March 27, 2012 at 9:22 AM

The bulb burned out in the third month.

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:12 AM

CFL’s were over hyped when they were new and quality control wasn’t the best. I use a lot of CFL’s. Mainly in places that are hard to get to, enclosed spaces that reduce the life of incandescent bulbs and especially garage door openers (the vibration causes regular bulbs to last minutes in some cases).

The prices have come down, quality, and lifespan, has gone up. With the higher cost of cooling your home, not having all those “E-Z bake oven” heating elements does make a difference.

If this summer is not as hot as last summer Obama will brag about reducing pollution to the yankees whose vote he needs in November, they won’t get shafted until it gets cold. He dosn’t care if the south melts during a normal summer, he wasn’t going to get those votes anyway.

Not that it matters to some folks, to them, Romney, or santorum, will be just as bad…

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:22 AM

PatriotGal2257 on March 27, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Big Ethanol tithes and preachers got rid of that candidate in Iowa.

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 9:23 AM

Time to start catching fireflies. Lots of ‘em.
Noncentsical on March 27, 2012 at 9:07 AM

You will not be able to to that since it will be against multiple laws. Besides light at night will spoil the enviros enjoyment to the stars in the night sky. No light – other than the small cooking fire in your teepee, while you munch on government supplied buffalo meat.

Friendly21 on March 27, 2012 at 9:23 AM

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:16 AM

Yes, the article I had read omitted that inconvenient fact as well. Fortunately for me, the bulb had not broken when I removed it from the fixture and replaced it with an incandescent. It was only later that I learned that I had subjected myself to the risk of mercury poisoning by not donning a hazmat suit and gloves to remove the bulb.

BTW, our local trash collection service here has distributed instructions to people on how to properly dispose of the CF bulbs; you’re supposed to wrap them in layers of plastic bags and secure the bags with duct tape before carefully placing the bags in the garbage can. I’m sure once all those plastic bags, duct tape, and mercury-laden bulbs end up in the landfill, that’s good for the environment, right lefties?

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:23 AM

Blacksoda on March 27, 2012 at 9:21 AM

Many of them are beyond their natural life span already.

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 9:24 AM

Remind me again why poor people are supposed to better off with the Democrats. I keep forgetting.

backwoods conservative on March 27, 2012 at 9:25 AM

I use a lot of CFL’s.
cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:22 AM

I take it your fire insurance is comprehensive and current.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 9:26 AM

We will look like the USSR rationing everything. I hope the American people won’t stand for it, but if we are focused on free contraception, then this kind of thing could get overlooked until it is too late.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:20 AM

But that’s where the shortsightedness of our politicians will bite them in the ass. If the American public(a portion of it anyway) is demanding free rubbers and birth control pills, you think those same people will stand to be told they have to turn down their AC units during the summertime or their heaters during the wintertime? That they have to get used to European-level prices for gas? That they’ll be told what kind of light bulbs and appliances and TVs they can have in their homes(all of which will almost certainly cost more to manufacture in order to conform to EPA standards)?

I honestly don’t know what the hell the folks in the Obama administration are thinking. The only logical conclusion I can come to is that they’re heavily invested(financially as well as politically) in some of these green energy companies and are looking to cash in for millions if not billions just like Al Gore did.

Doughboy on March 27, 2012 at 9:27 AM

and mercury-laden bulbs end up in the landfill, that’s good for the environment, right lefties?

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:23 AM

None of this is about protecting the environment, not really. Otherwise the greens wouldn’t back those whirling blades of death called windmills that kill bald eagles so often.

theCork on March 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 9:23 AM

Yep. [Sigh.]

PatriotGal2257 on March 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Look I think that this stinks and is based on NO science, not faulty science.

Coal fired boilers have been the enemy of Clinton and Obama so it’s a Democrat thing.

Clinton’s energy policy actually drove the natural gas price up not only in the U.S. but in Canada in the 1990′s. It caused ALL METHANOL PLANTS TO LEAVE THE U.S. and many ammonia plants. Now we import 50% of our ammonia from Venezuela, Trinidad, Egypt and Ukraine. Ammonia is the basic chemical for just about all fertilizer.

Kermit on March 27, 2012 at 9:29 AM

If you want your electricity, you can keep your electricity.

Now go get on your f___ing bicycle, Gilligan!

Rixon on March 27, 2012 at 9:29 AM

Obama’s on the wrong side of every important issue.

I can’t figure out why his approval rating isn’t at 30.

BuckeyeSam on March 27, 2012 at 9:29 AM

CFL’s don’t work in my garage door openers, they vibrate to uselessness too.

Instead I pay an illegal Mexican to perch above my garage and shine a flashlight down whenever the door operates; I save money on bulbs and provide a job.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:30 AM

And thus ends our brief foray into the world of electric cars.

It’s bad that Obama’s energy plan fails to meet the “all of the above” test. It’s worse that it insists we meet a set of mutually exclusive goals. There appears to be no attempt to coordinate any of these regulations.

Dee2008 on March 27, 2012 at 9:33 AM

Instead I pay an illegal Mexican to perch above my garage and shine a flashlight down whenever the door operates; I save money on bulbs and provide a job.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:30 AM

Dang! Why didn’t I think of that? Probably could have gotten a government grant for it too.

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:33 AM

I take it your fire insurance is comprehensive and current.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Of course, as it should be. Chicken little ignorance of a light bulb is no way to go through life though.

I guess y’all thought the same way about digital watches, electronic calculators and cell phones…

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:34 AM

“If you love your electric appliance, you can keep your electric appliance.”

Archivarix on March 27, 2012 at 8:43 AM

No fair putting up the award winning post at the top of the thread!

And in response to another comment, yes, Ron Paul is the crazy one. He has some valid ideas when it comes to smaller government and lower taxes but he is an idiot when it comes to national security and foreign affairs. I’d rather have the jug-eared traitor appeasing the Russians than to entrust Ron Paul with anything.

Happy Nomad on March 27, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Well, since we live in TX and have electric AC, I guess in the summer we can all expect to have heat stroke because we’ll never be able to afford to run the AC.

JennM111 on March 27, 2012 at 8:48 AM

I’m sorry, but you must understand that being like Europe is preferable. Obviously, things that happen during weather extremes are just a normal way of keeping down health care costs. Please look at France for a glowing example of this progress.

LoganSix on March 27, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Doughboy on March 27, 2012 at 9:27 AM

I think you may be right that they are heavily invested financially in these “green” companies and are making policy that will benefit them.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:36 AM

This upcoming election is not about politics it’s about survival. We will not survive four more years of The Won.

Oldnuke on March 27, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Hard to believe that some on our side will sit this election out or vote 3rd Party.

It is not only about the big picture it’s about the fine details.

redridinghood on March 27, 2012 at 9:36 AM

This guy has to go this November and we need a congress with the guts to undo all the horrendous damage he and the rest of the Marxists are doing to this country.

TfromV on March 27, 2012 at 9:38 AM

The way things are going, the Kurds will eventually have to create a no-fly zone over part of the U.S. to protect us from PBHO.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:39 AM

Dang! Why didn’t I think of that? Probably could have gotten a government grant for it too.

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:33 AM

Which is why I have my own parking spot here at HotGas and you don’t, because I come up with the big ideas.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:40 AM

CFL’s don’t work in my garage door openers, they vibrate to uselessness too.

Instead I pay an illegal Mexican to perch above my garage and shine a flashlight down whenever the door operates; I save money on bulbs and provide a job.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:30 AM

Good thing I didn’t just take a swig of my water or I’d need a new keyboard.

totherightofthem on March 27, 2012 at 9:42 AM

None of this is about protecting the environment, not really. Otherwise the greens wouldn’t back those whirling blades of death called windmills that kill bald eagles so often.

theCork on March 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM

As is virtually everything the Obama administration has laid its greasy hands on. It disturbs me most that we are under the thumb of a group of very determined and ruthless people who live and breathe the Communist Manifesto and are salivating at the chance to bring their little distopia to fruition any way they can. I see people around me who don’t talk much about how they’re affected by the high gas and high food prices, they’re still working and so on — in other words, they’re carrying on as if everything is normal, except a little more expensive. They don’t see the cause when they experience the effect, and I wonder if they’ll ever get it unless and until their backs are close against the wall, and maybe not even then.

PatriotGal2257 on March 27, 2012 at 9:44 AM

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Not sure how to take your comment there cozmo. Are you really equating CFLs to calculators and digital watches?

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:44 AM

I take it your fire insurance is comprehensive and current.
whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 9:26 AM

I guess y’all thought the same way about digital watches, electronic calculators and cell phones…
cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Meh – so far none of the digital watches I’ve had ever started fuming, sparking, arcing or burning like the Obamabulb did.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 9:45 AM

This guy has to go this November and we need a congress with the guts to undo all the horrendous damage he and the rest of the Marxists are doing to this country.

TfromV on March 27, 2012 at 9:38 AM

The guy doesn’t go until January. Stand by for all sorts of damage during the lame duck period. Then, Americans need to take back our government starting with holding Congress and the President accountable for their actions. We need a smaller government and deficit reductions. That means entitlement reforms and other unpopular actions but it must be done and will not if we are not the ones driving the process.

Happy Nomad on March 27, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Yes

There will be blood

Sonosam on March 27, 2012 at 9:45 AM

I think you may be right that they are heavily invested financially in these “green” companies and are making policy that will benefit them.

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:36 AM

The fact that(at least for the time being) members of Congress are allowed by law to engage in insider trading and become multimillionaires in just a few short years tells you all you need to know about how this government is being run. These people are all trying to line their pockets and they couldn’t give a damn about how the peons get destroyed in the process.

And this is just my own personal opinion, but I think a lot of politicians know the sh-t will be hitting the fan very soon since this level of spending and corruption is unsustainable, so instead of making hard choices and attempting to fix the problem(like Paul Ryan’s trying to do), they’re feeding at the trough as long as they can and in many cases opting to get out of dodge and letting someone else clean up the mess.

Doughboy on March 27, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Not sure how to take your comment there cozmo. Are you really equating CFLs to calculators and digital watches?

armygirl on March 27, 2012 at 9:44 AM

Fear of something new because you don’t like it.

Meh – so far none of the digital watches I’ve had ever started fuming, sparking, arcing or burning like the Obamabulb did.

whatcat on March 27, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Neither have any of the CFL’s I have used. And old tech electric heater did once, an oven did once, a shorted outlet did once. Your home is full of things that can catch fire, yet you only fear the CFL.

cozmo on March 27, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Change.

visions on March 27, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Which is why I have my own parking spot here at HotGas and you don’t, because I come up with the big ideas.

Bishop on March 27, 2012 at 9:40 AM

I knew you were special, I just didn’t know why. ;)

AZCoyote on March 27, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Hey West Virginia, you reap what you sow when you vote for Obama! Welcome to poverty statewide!

SDarchitect on March 27, 2012 at 9:51 AM

distopia = dystopia. Way to misspell, girlie. [sigh]

PatriotGal2257 on March 27, 2012 at 9:52 AM

How many coal mining states does he want to lose? What shall we do with all our coal? Forget about it? Sell it to China? Who needs those jobs, anyway?

Pablo on March 27, 2012 at 9:53 AM

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