Video: Obama weighs in on Trayvon Martin case; Update: Romney, Gingrich comment

posted at 12:45 pm on March 23, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

As one White House correspondent noted on Twitter, President Obama’s response to a question about the Trayvon Martin shooting was unusual in that he doesn’t usually respond to shouted questions from the press corps. Clearly, Obama wanted to talk about the incident after several days of debate over the killing of an unarmed teenager in Florida, and the lack of charges from local law enforcement:

I suspect that this part of Obama’s statement will rankle some:

Obama said Trayvon Martin’s death particularly resonated with him as an African-American parent.

“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,” Obama said in brief remarks outside the White House.

I’ve already gotten e-mails claiming that Obama played the race card, but that’s been an important part of the context of this case all along.  All things considered, Obama’s statement was rather restrained.  He seems to have learned a lesson from the Henry Gates incident in 2009, to which Obama reacted by claiming that law enforcement officers “acted stupidly” in the same breath in which he said that he didn’t have all of the facts of the case.  Instead, this time Obama restricted his commentary to noting how any American parent would want a full investigation of the incident, and praising Florida Governor Rick Scott for launching a task-force investigation of the incident.

The DoJ will probe the shooting, too, which Obama noted but which had already been announced.  However, there is almost no chance that the federal government will have any opening, since George Zimmerman wasn’t an agent of the state or local government.  That makes prosecuting Zimmerman under civil-rights legislation almost impossible, especially given the circumstances of the initial assault.  Be sure to see the lengthy explanation of Florida’s self-defense laws in my earlier post to see why Zimmerman will probably face some sort of prosecution if the stated facts of the case are borne out, but that will come from the county or state level, not federal.

Meanwhile, the media leaped at the chance to compare Obama’s statement to the silence from Republican presidential candidates on the shooting.  That’s a bit silly; even Obama took quite a while to comment on the case, and as Earl Ofari Hutchinson writes at Electronic Urban Report, for the same reasons:

Obama, as all sitting presidents, doesn’t take positions on controversial state issues, and that’s the key. They are state issues, and to interfere is to step into a political minefield that would do far more harm than good. It would violate the rigid separation of federal and state powers. It would open the floodgate for any and every individual and group that has a legal wrong, grievance, or injustice to expect, even demand, that the president speak out on their cause. While tens of thousands nationally and globally are rallying behind the demand for arrest and prosecution of Zimmerman, there are millions more that quietly and openly demand that Florida officials resists any rush to judgment about the Martin killing.

Presidential statements on a controversial issue will polarize, and fuel political backlash. This would certainly be the case if Obama utters a word about Martin. In fact, the Martin slaying is a near textbook example of the fury and passion that racial leaden cases and issues always stir. Martin is African-American, and his self-admitted killer is non-black. Obama is African-American and there’s rarely been a moment during his tenure in the White House that he hasn’t been relentlessly reminded of that. The one time that he gingerly ventured into the minefield on a racially charged local issue was his mild rebuke of the white officer that cuffed Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates in 2009. The reaction was instant and rabid. Polls after his mild rebuke showed that a majority of whites condemned Obama for backing Gates and, even more ominously, expressed big doubts about his policies.

The president relearned a bitter lesson. If you speak out on an issue that involves race, police authority, and local law and local matters you will pay a heavy political price for it. While presidents have routinely spoken out on the deaths of police officers, political initiatives in states, and other local issues, there is no implication or inference of political partisanship or interference in a state matter. Speaking out on a controversial racial issue, as Martin is, would have a direct political inference, namely that the president is taking sides. In an election year, this would have be even more problematic. The GOP presidential contenders would be quick to pounce and would lambaste Obama as playing the race card and inflaming passions. Or, more charitably, that he was butting into an issue that he has no authority over, and that this is yet another example of the White House’s over reach on local matters.

The Trayvon Martin shooting does raise questions about self-defense laws and carry permit legislation only if Zimmerman didn’t violate either of them in the shooting, which seems unlikely under the circumstances.  Those, however, are state-level issues, not federal, so presidential candidates (and Presidents) aren’t under any requirement to share their thoughts.

Update: Rep. Allen West has called the lack of action against Zimmerman “an outrage,” through his Facebook page:

Noting that he had taken some time to “assess the current episode,” West wrote: “The US Navy SEALS identified Osama Bin Laden within hours, while this young man laid on a morgue slab for three days. The shooter, Mr Zimmerman, should have been held in custody and certainly should not be walking free, still having a concealed weapons carry permit. From my reading, it seems this young man was pursued and there was no probable cause to engage him, certainly not pursue and shoot him….against the direction of the 911 responder.”

The congressman added: “Let’s all be appalled at this instance not because of race, but because a young American man has lost his life, seemingly, for no reason.”

The Florida lawmaker said that he had signed a letter supporting the Justice Department’s investigation but that he did not plan to attend protests in Florida “to shout and scream, because we need the responsible entities and agencies to handle this situation from this point without media bias or undue political influences.”

That went much farther than Obama did, although as a Representative elected from Florida, West has more political connection to what happens in the state.

Update: Mediate notes that Mitt Romney has made a statement today about the case, and Newt Gingrich did last night:

Shortly after President Obama spoke out for the first time on the killing of 17 year-old Trayvon Martin, former Massachusetts Governor and Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney followed suit, issuing a statement, through a spokesperson, which read “What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

Romney’s statement was similar to comments made by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who told CNN’s Piers Morgan, last night, that “I think that Americans can recognize that while this is a tragedy, and it is a tragedy, that we’re going to relentlessly seek justice. And I think that’s the right thing to do.”

 


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Wait,
This is a gated community?

And exactly what was this kid doing there in the first place and being on suspension from school?

Cutting someone’s grass?

Delivering the paper?

Anyone?

Beuler?

Tenwheeler on March 23, 2012 at 1:54 PM

Maybe you could, you know, actually read some of the details of this story. His father and his father’s girlfriend lives in Twin Lakes. But I see your point: why would any sane person think this kid could be walking around free and easy in a gated community?

WestOfAshland on March 23, 2012 at 2:30 PM

That was a quick trial and verdict. Fast even for a lynch mob.

VorDaj on March 23, 2012 at 2:21 PM

No quicker than the “verdict” meted out to an unarmed 17-year old by a nutjob vigilante.

changer1701 on March 23, 2012 at 2:34 PM

So, it’s not like he saw a black kid and decided to go all ape on him.

ButterflyDragon on March 23, 2012 at 2:18 PM

LOL….easy, tiger.

MooCowBang on March 23, 2012 at 2:34 PM

No quicker than the “verdict” meted out to an unarmed 17-year old by a nutjob vigilante.

changer1701 on March 23, 2012 at 2:34 PM

Once again…not your call. You dont know the facts. Stop acting like you want to give a beer summit.

MooCowBang on March 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM

Martin was acting in self defense when he swung on Zimmerman. If a guy is following me as I’m walking down the street I can claim I feel threatened and defend myself against him.

rndmusrnm on March 23, 2012 at 2:02 PM

Wow!

You need to seek legal counseling and take some self-defense courses. Even if someone following you down a street has a rap sheet a block long (regardless of their race), what you claim will be immaterial to the judge who will be sentencing you for unwarranted assualt.

Even a YMCA course in self-defense will teach you the best solution to a violent situation is to avoid it. If you were to take a martial arts program, every instructor I’ve ever known points out to new students, “If you are here to be a ‘badass’, please leave. We will find out soon enough if that is the case, and we will dismiss you from this school. Every ‘badass’ eventually runs into someone who is more of a ‘badass’.”

A self-defense course WILL, however, give you more self-confidence about your ability to protect yourself.

PolAgnostic on March 23, 2012 at 2:37 PM

Have you no pity…!?!?

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 1:48 PM

Fresh…

F*cking…

Out…

MooCowBang on March 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM

Once again…not your call. You dont know the facts. Stop acting like you want to give a beer summit.

MooCowBang on March 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM

I know what’s been said so far, and I can certainly make a “call” based on that. Stop telling others what they can or can’t do.

changer1701 on March 23, 2012 at 2:40 PM

Actually, my son is being raised to be a responsible young adult that doesn’t look at race as an type of qualifying factor for anything.

Perhaps you should drag yourself off that cross and get busy living a fruitful life?

ButterflyDragon on March 23, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Good on you! I hope he grows up to be POTUS!

d1carter on March 23, 2012 at 2:40 PM

Are you kidding me? First of all, not just kids of color wear hoodies.

Exactly, and non-kids of color in hoodies aren’t seen as “threatening” that’s the point.

For crying out loud. Second, if you or your parents thinking that dressing Gangsta might get you killed, maybe you should change your clothing choices or they should kick your butt for wearing that crap.

Good God, you are as bad as the President.

You’re right, black people don’t have the right to wear comfortable clothes. We should not leave the house outside of a suit and tie, if someone thinks we’re a gangsta for wearing a hoodie its our own fault for being born with dark skin. Oh well, sucks for us!

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 1:21 PM

Your ignorance and distortion continues….

There are plenty of ‘comfortable clothes’ that exist that do not identify the wearer with a culture of sex, violence, and drugs. You or any other person, be they black, white or fuscia, could wear the other comfortable clothes. To admit that stereotypes exist (as you so often do) then to state that one shouldn’t avoid certain attire, behavior, or actions that might identify said person with those stereotypes is moronic at best. You’ve squarely thrown your survival into the hands of the very bigots and morons you sit here and decry.

You don’t walk into a bank wearing a hoodie pulled up and a skimask over your face. It would probably throw EVERYONE into an uproar. Just like I try not to board a plane sweating profusely and screaming ‘Allah Alakbar’. That would probably lend the airline to deboard the passengers and/or have me taken into custody or questioning at the least.

Then if I were to engage(not neccesarily start)in a physical altercation there’s a good chance

StompUDead on March 23, 2012 at 2:41 PM

The school has said that he was suspended for tardiness. What interest do they have in lying? Did you read the article I linked to?

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 1:50 PM

You don’t get suspended for 10 days for tardiness either.

In most schools around here (NJ) the average suspension is 1-3 days, depending on the severity of the infraction.

In 35 years of teaching I can recall maybe one or two cases of a 10 day suspension, and they were for more serious things than tardiness or being in a prohibited area of the school.

susietwo on March 23, 2012 at 2:42 PM

All I want to know is: Is the shooter an illegal/anchor baby?

SouthernGent on March 23, 2012 at 2:44 PM

That was a quick trial and verdict. Fast even for a lynch mob.

VorDaj on March 23, 2012 at 2:21 PM

No quicker than the “verdict” meted out to an unarmed 17-year old by a nutjob vigilante.

changer1701 on March 23, 2012 at 2:34 PM

I think I will call you as my star witness.

VorDaj on March 23, 2012 at 2:45 PM

“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,” …what the hell does that mean?

TruthMatters on March 23, 2012 at 2:47 PM

PolAgnostic on March 23, 2012 at 2:37 PM

If someone is following you and confronts you, you have the right to swing first and it can still be self defense. That’s not trying to go out of your way to be a badass. If someone is following you, then they, say, put a hand on your shoulder to confront you, you can hit them and claim you felt threatened.

rndmusrnm on March 23, 2012 at 2:47 PM

In fact the only people anywhere who are defending the Sanford PD and Zimmerman is the extreme right within the conservative movement.

Which, if true, would be a terrible indictment of justice in America.

Would it not…???

Happily, we know it is NOT true.

There is an entire legal system that starts from this point…

“Zimmerman is assumed to be innocent of wrong-doing”.

Under the law of Florida, he may, in fact, be innocent.

This MAY be an example of how clumsy the law is, but nothing more than that.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Obama and Sharptton have spoken, so there is no need to have a trial and jury and testimony. Case closed.

VorDaj on March 23, 2012 at 2:51 PM

Hand this over to Holder, and you all will be declared guilty.

And you know what? If you do, you are guilty, of handing over your freedom and justice to a corrupt thug.

The land deserves the thugs at the top. She has lost her collective mind.

This case s/b handled in the local courts, and elevated in the system, not begun with Holder.

Schadenfreude on March 23, 2012 at 2:52 PM

Obama and Sharptton have spoken, so there is no need to have a trial and jury and testimony. Case closed.

VorDaj on March 23, 2012 at 2:51 PM

Any relatively free people who allow these thugs to ‘lead’ them, deserve them.

Schadenfreude on March 23, 2012 at 2:53 PM

“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,” …what the hell does that mean?

TruthMatters on March 23, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Zero is trying to spin the incident towards appearances rather than facts. The same reason brainfree is going ballistic for political purposes. It makes both their hinting that both actually want justice all the more suspect.

As I said earlier Obama is trying to taint a future jury.

viking01 on March 23, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Holder will get his revenge by running some more guns and killing a few hundred more Hispanics.

VorDaj on March 23, 2012 at 2:54 PM

This MAY be an example of how clumsy the law is, but nothing more than that.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 2:47 PM

The left, and sadly more and more on the right, don’t care about the law any more, nor about true liberalism/progressivism.

They are all thugs, the worst on the squishy middle and the right.

The land deserves them if her people don’t ‘pitchfork’ them all.

Obama loves nothing more than diverting all his gasoline and other woes with such fabricated unrest. He will lead it, right into Nov. If he succeeds, you and yours deserve him fully.

Schadenfreude on March 23, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Any relatively free people who allow these thugs to ‘lead’ them, deserve them.

Schadenfreude on March 23, 2012 at 2:53 PM

More’s the pity.

VorDaj on March 23, 2012 at 2:57 PM

“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,” …what the hell does that mean?
TruthMatters on March 23, 2012 at 2:47 PM

I’ve yet to see pictures of his girls comfortably dressed like blotchier mamas or gangsta ho’s. So I don’t think if he had a son that he’d look like Trayvon.

AH_C on March 23, 2012 at 2:58 PM

Schadenfreude on March 23, 2012 at 2:52 PM

It is highly unlikely that there is a Federal crime. To be a Section 1983 violation, Zimmerman would have to be acting under colour of law. He was not a LEO.

It’s a state crime. It will be handled by the State’s Attorneys Office.

Homicide – whether it is murder or manslaughter – is not a Federal crime unless there is an additional factor involved like kidnapping, drug smuggling across state lines, murder of a Federal employee or official, etc.

Resist We Much on March 23, 2012 at 2:58 PM

Leave it to Obama to make it about himself.

By the way, if he had a son, he most certainly would not look like Martin. Only in the most lame-brained attempt at solidarity–based on the racist assumption that all blacks essentially look the same–does this statement make sense.

For you Libs that think Obama is a shoe-in for reelection, it’s times like these that should give you pause.

EMD on March 23, 2012 at 3:00 PM

MSNBC’s Karen Finney came right out and blamed Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum for ‘creating the environment’ that led to Martin’s death. .

I blogged about how the MSM can’t wait for all the facts to develop before they start smearing Conservatives as being the ’cause’ of things like the Toulouse, France shootings and the TrayVon Martin shooting.

Twitter sample with link to the blog:

http://tinyurl.com/7suwdm6

manofaiki on March 23, 2012 at 3:03 PM

Homicide – whether it is murder or manslaughter – is not a Federal crime unless there is an additional factor involved like kidnapping, drug smuggling across state lines, murder of a Federal employee or official, etc.

Resist We Much on March 23, 2012 at 2:58 PM

There are certain people trying to argue its a hate crime, motivated by racism, based on the claim that Zimmerman can be heard on the 911 tapes uttering a racial slur. I believe then it becomes a federal issue. The racial slur sounds questionable, from what I’ve read, some people hear it, others don’t, even after the tape was enhanced. I suspect if Holder can figure out a way to get in the case, he will. Personally, I agree that it should remain a local issue, but I do think the local police should do a thorough investigation, with the assistance of the local district attorney/state prosecutor’s office.

mbs on March 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM

MSNBC’s Karen Finney came right out and blamed Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum for ‘creating the environment’ that led to Martin’s death. .

manofaiki on March 23, 2012 at 3:03 PM

She’s baaaack….

NewsBusters:

On Friday’s edition of MSNBC’s NOW with Alex Wagner, former DNC Communications Director Karen Finney (and occasional MSNBC host) used the tragic death of Trayvon Martin to viciously attack Republicans across the country. The segment started out examining the role of gun laws in our society and quickly turned into an assault on Republicans, following comments made by liberal-host Wagner.

Wagner made the claim that, “We had a map of the 25, 26 states with stand your ground laws. You can actually overlay a map of the red states in this country.” Such divisive rhetoric fed into the liberal talking point for Karen as she went on a tirade. {Video coming soon. MP3 audio here.]

Finney maintained that there was a calculated effort between the NRA and ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council, a conservative public policy group) to push gun laws starting in Florida, going so far as to say that the, “Same committee happened to work on draft legislation on, oh, voter ID laws.”

NewsBuster’s Jeffrey Meyer correctly notes that the Democrats and their National Media are shamelessly using this tragic story for “political advantage”. If the Republicans had done the same thing, the Left would be outraged, of course:

In Karen’s extreme world view, maintaining voting integrity is somehow comparable to gun laws and in her words, “You can put a graphic on over those states and then many of them line up with a lot of the very dramatic extreme things we’ve been seeing passed in the states by Republican-controlled governors and legislatures.”

Finney, who cannot speak without smearing Republicans has used the tragedy in Florida to make explosive claims, implying that Republicans are extreme in their gun and voter ID laws, which contribute to horrific events across the country. Rahm Emanuel was right as liberals like Karen Finney continue to exploit a tragedy for political gains.

Del Dolemonte on March 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM

The kid was 17 and 6’3″. The pictures shown so far are of a kid that around 12 years old. Is this the same guy?

Also, I just read where the 17 yo had been suspended from school (the reasons are being withheld), and he was 250 miles away from his high school.

This has no bearing on his involvement, but it seems the media is keeping things from the public for some reason. I can’t imagine why.

faraway on March 23, 2012 at 1:32 PM

We’re supposed to believe there aren’t more recent pictures on Facebook or something?

Wagthatdog on March 23, 2012 at 3:11 PM

If someone is following you and confronts you, you have the right to swing first and it can still be self defense. That’s not trying to go out of your way to be a badass. If someone is following you, then they, say, put a hand on your shoulder to confront you, you can hit them and claim you felt threatened.

rndmusrnm on March 23, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Sorry dude, but even here in the great State of Texas you cannot do what you have described and get away with claiming “self defense.” Someone following you or even putting their hand on your shoulder does not meet the requirement for a threatening gesture.

opustx on March 23, 2012 at 3:13 PM

Once again…not your call. You dont know the facts. Stop acting like you want to give a beer summit.
MooCowBang on March 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM

Nice that you’re concerned about the dude who is still alive after killing a tenenager.

LawnGnomeFanFirst on March 23, 2012 at 3:17 PM

There are photos of him in a grey hoodie that seem fairly recent. Also, why does this matter?

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Because YOU and your liberal BFF’s in the media are referring to a 17 year old young MAN, who was over six feet tall as a “child?” It’s a fairly obvious ploy to generate sympathy for the victim that he may or may not deserve.

JannyMae on March 23, 2012 at 3:18 PM

Wait,
This is a gated community?

And exactly what was this kid doing there in the first place and being on suspension from school?

Cutting someone’s grass?

Delivering the paper?

Anyone?

Beuler?

Tenwheeler on March 23, 2012 at 1:54 PM

You racist.

Black people can’t live in a gated community?

His father lives there…

liberal4life on March 23, 2012 at 3:19 PM

This really needs to be worked out by the local authorities. We don’t know the real facts of the case and what the media is feeding us is agenda driven. The man certainly should not be in jail right now given the way the case is being stated. The police know who and where he is; self-defense cases should not wind up with the person claiming self defense in jail unless the evidence at the crime scene indicates otherwise. Same thing with stand your ground laws — they are a response to the ridiculous, retreat until you can’t laws that led to atrocities like the Connecticut mother who followed the retreat law all the way down to her basement where the perp followed her and she shot him. She was then convicted because she didn’t try to crawl out of the basement window instead of shooting the perp.

The problem here may not be the laws, but that a bad apple slipped through. Or it might be that this innocent young man serving a 10 day suspension for “tardiness” might not have been that innocent. We here on this blog aren’t going to be able to sort that out and we don’t have the facts. One thing is certain, if the libs are using this to try to roll back self-defense rights and use this as an excuse to further restrict gun rights, we need to push back on that — strongly. We live in an imperfect world and sometimes things go wrong. That doesn’t mean that we become Chicago or a Detroit where only the criminals are armed, self-defense is prosecuted, and the homicide rate is higher than elsewhere in the country.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2012 at 3:21 PM

Someone following you or even putting their hand on your shoulder does not meet the requirement for a threatening gesture.

See? What’s funny about that is that it is not strictly true. It isn’t cut and dried.

It would be a jury matter. A “reasonable person” standard is applied.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:21 PM

This case reeks.
R pols should make no comment “on an ongoing case”, or “an investigation is clearly warranted.”
It is.
The vileness of the mainstream media and standard race baiting Big D politics should not distract folks. Remember, that is the goal.

The case is about the actions of one man, in one situation. That is all.

PaleoRider on March 23, 2012 at 3:22 PM

The last thing we need is for this snotty little Marxist to pontificate that we all should be soul searching as to why this happened.

If he had a son, he would look like Trayvon? Why? Based on what, skin color? What kind of despicable bullsh*t is that.

*spit*

petefrt on March 23, 2012 at 3:23 PM

petefrt on March 23, 2012 at 3:23 PM

100%.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:24 PM

I live in a gated community, what does that have to do with race? It’s like the United Colors of Benneton up in here, and no one thinks that’s odd, weird, or whatever. And we’re in the
Deep South. Good gravy, are people that racist in certain areas in the country? Wow.

di butler on March 23, 2012 at 3:26 PM

There’s a reason why this is national news. I predicted Obama wasn’t above a race war to get elected. All they need to say, which they are, is the GOP candidates didn’t respond within a certain time frame to create any kind of label they want.

I do think it’s odd, in the days of facebook and cell phone pictures, we don’t have a more recent picture. Overpowering a 12 year old boy and overpowering a 17 year old man are different things.

Wagthatdog on March 23, 2012 at 3:28 PM

See? What’s funny about that is that it is not strictly true. It isn’t cut and dried.

It would be a jury matter. A “reasonable person” standard is applied.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:21 PM

Yes it is, there is a legal definition for what constitutes a “threating” gesture, just like there is a legal definition of what is an Assault.

opustx on March 23, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Could anyone who thinks this shooting and the aftermath is somehow indicative of systemic racism please explain why charges still have not been filed against this police officer?

The reality is that the legal system is an equal opportunity constitutional rights violation machine, and it protects those it perceives as its own until the bitter end.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 3:31 PM

Either Southernblogger, one of the most consistent conservative voices on this blog is a Sharpton-esque race baiter. Or there are a lot of white supremacist jack asses masquerading as conservatives. Which is it?

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 2:02 PM

I’m sorry that you and southernblogger have rushed to convict Zimmerman without even a formal investigation and a trial, and you take offense at people who are reluctant to do that.

I hope neither of you ever serves as a juror.

JannyMae on March 23, 2012 at 3:36 PM

The Venom with which some here are attempting to blame an innocent, dead, child for his own homicide is truly revolting. Let’s be clear: my son was once a 17-year-old in a hoodie. (every 17-year-old has a hoodie). If he had been walking through that gated community In his hoodie, carrying a bag of Skittles, not only would he have lived, that sociopathic cop-wannabe would never even have called the cops. Because he’s white.

You don’t have to like Obama or hate handguns to acknowledge the obvious facts of this case and to lay off the dead kid. The kid is dead because he was black.

urban elitist on March 23, 2012 at 3:39 PM

I feel for any black child raised by parents who don’t teach him the meaning of race and racism in America. Good luck to him. He’ll need it.

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 2:04 PM

And to think that earlier you claimed superiority to lib4life.

Unbelievable.

JannyMae on March 23, 2012 at 3:39 PM

Yes it is, there is a legal definition for what constitutes a “threating” gesture, just like there is a legal definition of what is an Assault.

Well, I practice law in Texas.

Having someone follow you, and put their hand on your shoulder…DEPENDING…

Would easily be construe by a jury as a CRIMINAL ASSAULT…

which it would be given the right circumstances.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:41 PM

JannyMae on March 23, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Libfree smells vindication for our racist President’s support for critical race theory. The truth is not important.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 3:42 PM

I live in a gated community, what does that have to do with race? It’s like the United Colors of Benneton up in here, and no one thinks that’s odd, weird, or whatever. And we’re in the
Deep South. Good gravy, are people that racist in certain areas in the country? Wow.

di butler on March 23, 2012 at 3:26 PM

Sadly, yes.

cam2 on March 23, 2012 at 3:43 PM

You don’t have to like Obama or hate handguns to acknowledge the obvious facts of this case and to lay off the dead kid. The kid is dead because he was black.

urban elitist on March 23, 2012 at 3:39 PM

Why is Patricia Cook dead?

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 3:43 PM

I can take you into LOTS of neighborhoods in the US where you are in deadly peril if you are white.

Please…

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:45 PM

Some facts about this case that almost all the MSM have blown off.

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6’2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.

Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read “George ZImmerman, a white man,” or “shoot by a white man.” Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is “mostly white.” This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners’ association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

JeffinSac on March 23, 2012 at 3:45 PM

So placing your hand on someone’s shoulder, nothing else, construes a rude, insolent or angry manner?

Remind me never to have you as my defense attorney, or god forbid you are the CA or DA.

opustx on March 23, 2012 at 3:47 PM

You know, as far as motives go, it’s fairly easy to solve this one. In his many weirdo vigilante adventures, did Zimmerman ever call 911 on someone who was white, Asian, or Latino?

It’s entirely premature to start clucking about racism until, at minimum 1) we see an answer to the above question, 2) Zimmerman himself confesses racist motives, or 3) someone comes forward to say they heard or saw something indicative of a racist motive.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Because he’s white.

urban elitist on March 23, 2012 at 3:39 PM

I was with right up to that point. You’re assuming motives, which is a trademark of a weak mind.

There isn’t currently evidence to support your claim, so maybe you should just stick to the facts.

As for the hoodie – I wear one all the time, especially when it’s raining outside.

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Remind me never to have you as my defense attorney, or god forbid you are the CA or DA.

opustx on March 23, 2012 at 3:47 PM

‘K.

I’m sorry to offend your very delicate feelings.

I just know you’re full of sh!t, and thought I should correct your falsehoods.

Cheers.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Oh I get it JeffinSac, when the media presents a version of events favorable to Zimmerman they are telling the “facts” when they cite witnesses like this woman who claim that she heard a young boy cry for help, its lies?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cWwUAbbWnk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM

See? What’s funny about that is that it is not strictly true. It isn’t cut and dried.

It would be a jury matter. A “reasonable person” standard is applied.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:21 PM

Yes it is, there is a legal definition for what constitutes a “threating” gesture, just like there is a legal definition of what is an Assault.

opustx on March 23, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Gentlemen …

You are both correct. The “reasonable person” standard is almost universal AND in most, but not all, jurisdictions there is a legal definition of assault.

With regard to our misguided friend … call a public defender and ask whether someone putting there hand on your shoulder to confront you gives you ground to hit them and not be charged for assault.

I’ll bet you dollars to donuts the public defende will have former client who have been found guilty of assault even though they claimed the felt threatened.

AS for POTUS, he is, in theory, a lawyer. LAWYER 101 is “do not offer an opinion on a case where you do not have direct knowledge of all the facts of the case”. For centuries, American Presidents have followed this basic premise … until now.

There is no greater indictment of his detached judgement capabilties than his willingness to demagogue when he should remain silent.

PolAgnostic on March 23, 2012 at 3:51 PM

did Zimmerman ever call 911 on someone who was white, Asian, or Latino?

It’s entirely premature to start clucking about racism until, at minimum 1) we see an answer to the above question, 2) Zimmerman himself confesses racist motives, or 3) someone comes forward to say they heard or saw something indicative of a racist motive.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Exactly. I honestly don’t see what’s so difficult about the concept of not bringing race into something until there’s evidence to support it.

A couple other commenters mentioned this guy regularly called the police on suspicious activity, but I didn’t see anything about if he specifically called the cops on black individuals.

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 3:51 PM

Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

You mean this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3XIpipHBU

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 3:52 PM

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Wouldn’t conflicting media and witness report be a reason to withold judgement of guilt or a motivation of racism?

You’re accusing someone of using selective media sources while doing the exact same thing. You really are blinded by your own prejudices.

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 3:57 PM

http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2012/03/23/slain_teens_friends_say_he_never_picked_a_fight/?page=2

Starting a fight? Possibly high on drugs and up to no good? No, friends say that description of Martin from the neighborhood crime-watch volunteer who shot and killed the unarmed black teenager doesn’t match the young man they knew.

“There’s no way I can believe that, because he’s not a confrontational kid,” said Jerome Horton, who was one of Martin’s former football coaches and knew him since he was about 5. “It just wouldn’t happen. That’s just not that kid.”

Martin was slain in the town of Sanford on Feb. 26 in a shooting that has set off a nationwide furor over race and justice. Neighborhood crime-watch captain George Zimmerman, whose father is white and mother is Hispanic, claimed self-defense and has not been arrested, though state and federal authorities are still investigating.

Since his death, Martin’s name and photographs — in football jerseys, smiling alongside a baby, and staring into the camera in a gray hoodie — have been held up by civil rights leaders and at rallies stretching from Miami to New York demanding Zimmerman’s arrest.

On Friday, President Barack Obama called the shooting a tragedy, vowed to get to the bottom of the case, and added: “When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids.”

Since the slaying, a portrait has emerged of Martin as a laid-back young man who loved sports, was extremely close to his father, liked to crack jokes with friends and, according to a lawyer for his family, had never been in trouble with the law.

The son of divorced parents, he grew up in working-class neighborhoods north of Miami’s downtown. He and his father, a truck driver, were active in the Miramar Optimist Club, an organization that runs sports and academic programs for young people. Tracy Martin, the teen’s father, coached his son’s football team.

The boy was a swift athlete, according to a friend, and played a range of positions up to about age 14. After he stopped playing, he remained active in the organization, volunteering six days a week from June through November of last year to help run the team’s concession stand.

Martin cooked hamburgers, hot dogs and chicken wings alongside his father at the stand. He loved talking to the kids, asking them what position they played and whether they were good, Horton recalled. He would call the mothers “Ma’am,” and if they had a stroller or an item they needed help with, Martin stepped in.

“Everyone out there loved him,” Horton said.

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Oh I get it JeffinSac, when the media presents a version of events favorable to Zimmerman they are telling the “facts” when they cite witnesses like this woman who claim that she heard a young boy cry for help, its lies?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cWwUAbbWnk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM

No, dude, you’re not getting it. The point is that witness reports conflict, therefore your ZOMGRACISM!1!111!!! theory which is being repeated by the media as gospel (conveniently omitting some of the facts) is premature.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 3:58 PM

I’ll bet you dollars to donuts the public defende[r] will have former client[s] who have been found guilty of assault even though they claimed the[y] felt threatened.

Because the jury determined that issue.

Right?

I’ll bet you they will also tell you they’ve known people acquitted on essentially the same facts, because a jury DID believe they were reasonably in fear of an assault.

You don’t even have to touch someone to criminally assault them.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Wouldn’t conflicting media and witness report be a reason to withold judgement of guilt or a motivation of racism?

You’re accusing someone of using selective media sources while doing the exact same thing. You really are blinded by your own prejudices.

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 3:57 PM

JeffinSac is amongst the crowd who is attempting to justify that Zimmerman shouldn’t have been arrested. Have you joined that club, because initially you thought it was very clear that Zimmerman should have been arrested. You also agreed that there was major police misconduct. The editorial that JeffinSac is reporting was based ONLY on police reporting, BEFORE the 911 calls were released which contradict Zimmerman’s story. Last, what I posted isn’t “conflicting” evidence, it is women claiming that the police ignored their testimony when it did not fit their preferred narrative. The only “conflict” in the narrative is that the police have been caught witness tampering and lying. Q

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 4:00 PM

You racist.

Black people can’t live in a gated community?

His father lives there…

liberal4life on March 23, 2012 at 3:19 PM

First of all, the comment you responded to had nothing to do with race. You assumed that.

Second, I have read that Trayvon’s father did NOT live in that community, and he was cutting through the neighborhood to get to his Father’s community.

Your outrageous outrage is gonna raise your blood pressure.

JannyMae on March 23, 2012 at 4:01 PM

so now more FACTS are coming out…6’3″..17 yrs…suspended from school 250 miles away. This goes along with the staements of the fight and zimmerman on the bottom with TWO head wounds. The father’s girlfriend lives in the community and probably was involved in zimmerman being chosen for watchman. The father was “visiting” and trevon was walking in an area that had been burglarized before. Zimmerman had called the NON-EMERGENCY number several times before regarding untoward activity, NOT the 911 number. Zimmerman has said he called for help and some are saying it was trevon. There most likely was a struggle for the gun.

Mr. Sun on March 23, 2012 at 4:02 PM

JeffinSac is amongst the crowd who is attempting to justify that Zimmerman shouldn’t have been arrested. Have you joined that club, because initially you thought it was very clear that Zimmerman should have been arrested. You also agreed that there was major police misconduct. The editorial that JeffinSac is reporting was based ONLY on police reporting, BEFORE the 911 calls were released which contradict Zimmerman’s story. Last, what I posted isn’t “conflicting” evidence, it is women claiming that the police ignored their testimony when it did not fit their preferred narrative. The only “conflict” in the narrative is that the police have been caught witness tampering and lying. Q

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 4:00 PM

No it wasn’t.

You need to calm down, hot head. Witness reports are conflicting.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 4:06 PM

so now more FACTS are coming out…6’3″..17 yrs

Relevant?

…suspended from school 250 miles away. This goes along with the staements of the fight and zimmerman on the bottom with TWO head wounds.

Oh because if you’ve been suspended from school that means you are automatically a violent criminal?

The father’s girlfriend lives in the community and probably was involved in zimmerman being chosen for watchman.

LIES! Zimmerman was a self-appointed watchman, there was NO election. You’re exposed.

The father was “visiting” and trevon was walking in an area that had been burglarized before.

The house is owned by Trayvon’s father’s fiancee, he had every right to be there visiting. Is your suggestion that other burglaries are enough to convict Trayvon merely because he is a black man? Do you even know if black people committed the other burglaries. So racist.

Zimmerman had called the NON-EMERGENCY number several times before regarding untoward activity, NOT the 911 number. Zimmerman has said he called for help and some are saying it was trevon. There most likely was a struggle for the gun.

Pure, made up conjecture. A struggle for the gun? Where are you getting that from? Oh yeah, you’re a racist.

Mr. Sun on March 23, 2012 at 4:02 PM

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Ed Morrissey – Obama’s most LOYAL “Media Bloviator” – making SURE that Obama’s words and deeds are Reported The Way Obama would WANT THEM to be!

Great job, Ed! KEEP UP The Left’s NARRATIVE!!

williamg on March 23, 2012 at 4:07 PM

The Venom with which some here are attempting to blame an innocent, dead, child for his own homicide is truly revolting. Let’s be clear: my son was once a 17-year-old in a hoodie. (every 17-year-old has a hoodie). If he had been walking through that gated community In his hoodie, carrying a bag of Skittles, not only would he have lived, that sociopathic cop-wannabe would never even have called the cops. Because he’s white.

You don’t have to like Obama or hate handguns to acknowledge the obvious facts of this case and to lay off the dead kid. The kid is dead because he was black.

urban elitist on March 23, 2012 at 3:39 PM

Why don’t you talk to Geraldo? He’s the one who blamed the hoodie.

Nah, that wouldn’t fit in with your self-righteous indignation, now would it?

Would you like to just round Zimmerman up and hang him from the nearest tall tree, or do you think there should be due process in the case? Your assumption that this was racism make YOU look like a jackass, because you do NOT have enough facts to reach that conclusion.

JannyMae on March 23, 2012 at 4:07 PM

It makes no sense that this guy has been allowed to walk.

changer1701 on March 23, 2012 at 2:13 PM

Just because Zimmerman has not yet been charged with any crime doesn’t mean that he “has been allowed to walk.” The case is still under active investigation, the police know where Zimmerman is, he has apparently been cooperative with investigators and is not considered a flight risk. There isn’t any reason to arrest him until all the facts are known (that can be known), and a Florida prosecutor has evaluated the evidence and determined what, if any, crimes Zimmerman should be charged with.

There is still a presumption of innocence in this country. If this killing had involved a black shooter and a “white” victim, all the professional race-baiters rushing down to Florida now would be the first ones insisting that the public suspend judgment and wait for the facts before condemning the shooter.

AZCoyote on March 23, 2012 at 4:08 PM

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM

You’re accusing someone of using selective media sources while doing the exact same thing. You really are blinded by your own prejudices.

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 3:57 PM

And exactly 1 minute after your post, your point is confirmed!

http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2012/03/23/slain_teens_friends_say_he_never_picked_a_fight/?page=2

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Here, the Subject uses an article written by Official DNC Stenographers the Associated Press (or as I call them, “al-AP”), that was then published in a newspaper owned by the Democrat New York Times, a newspaper that endorsed O’bama in 2008.

Talk about cherry-picking media sources!

BTW, how come all of the news stories about the dead kid show an “undated photo”? He certainly doesn’t look like he’s 17 years old in that snapshot.

Del Dolemonte on March 23, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Obama, totally racist, hates white people. Hell he hates everyone who doesn’t look and think like him.

He is all yours leftists.

Own it.

tom daschle concerned on March 23, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Pure, made up conjecture. A struggle for the gun? Where are you getting that from? Oh yeah, you’re a racist.

You are a self-parody.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 4:09 PM

No, dude, you’re not getting it. The point is that witness reports conflict, therefore your ZOMGRACISM!1!111!!! theory which is being repeated by the media as gospel (conveniently omitting some of the facts) is premature.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 3:58 PM

I would submit to you, that as a leftist troll on this blog, libfreeordie absolutely gets it and is, in it’s capacity as a leftist troll, furthering the work of that biased media. You will note that this is the largest number of comments in a single thread this troll has made in recent history. It usually drops a single steaming, smelly piece of lib talking point in a thread and then disappears until the next thread comes up. In rare instances, it might make sure it befouls each page of a thread. However, in this case, it is actually responding to comments made to it. That must mean that this is being viewed by its liberal overlords as a possibly productive story for the liberal agenda and has been instructed to fully engage on this one.

So yeah, it gets it and is attempting to shape the narrative rather than allow the facts to come out from an investigation by those closest to the event.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Have you joined that club, because initially you thought it was very clear that Zimmerman should have been arrested. You also agreed that there was major police misconduct.

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 4:00 PM

I don’t think I ever said either of those things, and I’m pretty sure this is the only thread on this subject I’ve commented in.

My position is that I don’t have all the facts (and have seen a lot of conflicting information), so it’s a bit early for me to make a judgement of guilt or say that race had anything to do with this.

I said if, IF, the facts as currently known are true, Zimmerman should be arrested (based off of numerous media reports and Ed’s post on the legal aspects). I would like some more information on why the police say they don’t have anything to charge him with.

The one thing I will say with absolute certainty at this point; Trayvon should not be dead. Zimmerman was told by the 911 dispatcher not to follow him and he shouldn’t have.

Now, with regards to you, I find it disturbing that someone who seems pretty bright can at the same time be so blinded by prejudice. I think you should take a step back and reassess.

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 4:10 PM

No it wasn’t.

You need to calm down, hot head. Witness reports are conflicting.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Thanks for proving my point. That news report was from the day after the shooting and referenced one witnesses account. The report was made *before* the 911 calls were released. Even if Trayvon briefly had the upper hand over Zimmerman, Zimmerman followed and approached Trayvon on the assumption that he was “on drugs” and “up to no good.” And we’re supposed to believe Trayvon started the violence? OK sure.

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 4:12 PM

…suspended from school 250 miles away. This goes along with the staements of the fight and zimmerman on the bottom with TWO head wounds.

Oh because if you’ve been suspended from school that means you are automatically a violent criminal?

Oh my! This wins the non-sequitur of the thread award, right here! Apparently your outrage caused you to stop reading before you got to the second sentence?

You are even stupider than I thought you were. I’m going to go for a walk, but I look forward to coming back and reading the further smackdowns delivered to you by the sane HotAir commentators.

JannyMae on March 23, 2012 at 4:12 PM

You don’t have to like Obama or hate handguns to acknowledge the obvious facts of this case and to lay off the dead kid. The kid is dead because he was black.

urban elitist on March 23, 2012 at 3:39 PM

Breathtaking.

PS, you’re late. Second Shift started at 3 PM.

Del Dolemonte on March 23, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Remember the outrage of the media a few years ago when lovely and talented UNC Student Body President Eve Carson was dragged from her home, forced to empty her bank accounts and was then shot in the street and left to die? Eve was white and her two killers are black. It was clearly and demonstrably a hideous racial hate crime, perpetrated by two losers who wanted to ‘get theirs’. A hate crime that snuffed out the life of a promising young leader. I remember when Reverend Al and Jesse came here to stand with the family of the slain student body leader and to call for the end of robbery and murder. Oh wait…

maryo on March 23, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Oh yeah, you’re a racist.

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Good lord, man, settle down. You’re seriously going off the deep end on this one. Don’t you get that you can’t just assign motivations to people without evidence?

You’re assuming that Zimmerman wanted to shoot this kid because he was a racist, then when another commenter assumes there might have been a struggle for the gun you call him a racist. Can you honestly not see what you’re doing here?

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 4:16 PM

so now more FACTS are coming out…6’3″..17 yrs

Relevant?

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 4:06 PM

The undated photo your Democrat Media is showing of the guy makes him look like he’s 12 years old and 5’3″.

Why are they doing that, except to gin up sympathy for the kid?

If they were actually interested in journalistic objectivity, they would have used a more recent photo of him. The fact that they have to admit using an undated photo shows their prejudice. They, like yourself, have already tried and convicted his alleged killer without a trial.

Del Dolemonte on March 23, 2012 at 4:16 PM

It makes no sense that this guy has been allowed to walk.

changer1701 on March 23, 2012 at 2:13 PM
-
Ever hear of a grand jury?

diogenes on March 23, 2012 at 4:21 PM

Remember the outrage of the media a few years ago when lovely and talented UNC Student Body President Eve Carson was dragged from her home, forced to empty her bank accounts and was then shot in the street and left to die? Eve was white and her two killers are black. It was clearly and demonstrably a hideous racial hate crime, perpetrated by two losers who wanted to ‘get theirs’. A hate crime that snuffed out the life of a promising young leader. I remember when Reverend Al and Jesse came here to stand with the family of the slain student body leader and to call for the end of robbery and murder. Oh wait…

maryo on March 23, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Believe it or not, the wiki entry for “Murder of Eve Carson” includes a picture of one of the killers taken by a bank camera using her ATM card.

He is wearing a Hoodie.

Del Dolemonte on March 23, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Thanks for proving my point. That news report was from the day after the shooting and referenced one witnesses account. The report was made *before* the 911 calls were released. Even if Trayvon briefly had the upper hand over Zimmerman, Zimmerman followed and approached Trayvon on the assumption that he was “on drugs” and “up to no good.” And we’re supposed to believe Trayvon started the violence? OK sure.

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 4:12 PM

The point is that you don’t know. You claim there’s a cover-up, but you don’t know that. You claim Zimmerman is a racist, but you don’t know that. You claim only certain aspects of eyewitness reports are credible, but you don’t know that. You claim this incident is indicative of systemic racism, but you don’t know that. Most importantly, you claim Zimmerman murdered Martin, but you don’t know that.

You’re prepared to call anyone who disagrees with you a racist, without even knowing the race of the person you’re slandering. You’re prepared to lynch a person who deserves the presumption of innocence until the facts are known. All of them. Did it ever occur to you that you are acting like the vigilante you claim Zimmerman was?

Whatever. You clearly have a righteous agenda, so please continue your race-baiting.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Ever hear of a grand jury?

OR due process…???

Naw.

The racist LEFT has weighed him in the balances, and now needs his blood.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Remind me never to have you as my defense attorney, or god forbid you are the CA or DA.

opustx on March 23, 2012 at 3:47 PM

‘K.

I’m sorry to offend your very delicate feelings.

I just know you’re full of sh!t, and thought I should correct your falsehoods.

Cheers.

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that you offended my feelings, but whatever makes you feel better about yourself champ.

opustx on March 23, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Ever hear of a grand jury?

diogenes on March 23, 2012 at 4:21 PM

Come on, mob justice is so much more fun… and profitable: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/23/trayvon-martin-merchandise-spreads-through-florida-town-before-during-sharpton-rally/

RMOccidental on March 23, 2012 at 4:23 PM

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Fake but accurate. It’s the liberal way.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 4:24 PM

Remind me never to have you as my defense attorney, or god forbid you are the CA or DA.

and

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that you offended my feelings

Oooooookaaaaay…

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Come on, mob justice is so much more fun… and profitable: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/23/trayvon-martin-merchandise-spreads-through-florida-town-before-during-sharpton-rally/

RMOccidental on March 23, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Unless the proceeds are going directly to the family, that is one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen. What’s next? Commemorative shot glasses?

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 3:59 PM

My fist point was the “reasonable person” rule is frequently forgotten by people who believe they all they have to do is claim they felt threatened and they are automatially exonerated.

My second point is assault is specifically defined in many jurisdictions. What constitutes assault in one jurisdiction may not be assualt in the jurisdiction right next door to it.

I have no interest in discussing all the legal permutations of assault.

With regard to this specific incident:

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him. The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.

Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.

Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

If that is an accurate statement of the facts, Zimmerman was most likely acting in self defense. The police officers first on scene are trained to treat any death as a homicide. Lacking additional evidence, people can be as outraged as they want and Mr. Zimmerman was still treated correctly in this case.

Side bar: 10+ years ago, a woman friend was pissed off at her husband (a former navy SEAL) for only calling the cops when her drunk ex-husband and three drunk friends showed up in the middle of the night telling him to come outside so they could kick his ass. It took me an hour to get her to understand that if he had gone outside and kicked their asses, he would have been the one the police were likely to arrest. Point: We have Hollywood to thank for people’s general lack of understanding of how the world REALLY works and the MSM to blame for taking everything they touch and running it through their Agenda filters before it gets o the public.

PolAgnostic on March 23, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Apparently as obtuse as l4l and libfreeordie.

opustx on March 23, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Come on Nom, didn’t you know the search for truth and justice isn’t complete with out a commemorative tee-shirt.

RMOccidental on March 23, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Fake but accurate. It’s the liberal way.

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 4:24 PM

Yeah. I honestly don’t even think he sees how prejudiced he’s being in his assumptions; it’s like it’s not even registering.

I’d perfectly interested in having a legitimate conversation, but it doesn’t seem like he’s up for it.

BadgerHawk on March 23, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Come on Nom, didn’t you know the search for truth and justice isn’t complete with out a commemorative tee-shirt.

RMOccidental on March 23, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Well in defense of my ignorance, I’m a racist, so I wouldn’t know how to go about outfitting myself for such an endeavor. Should I buy the $8.99 Treyvon Martin biopic DVD at Jiffy-Mart as well?

Nom de Boom on March 23, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Not to belabor this toooooo damn much, but…

A dead-bang case of self-defense can be immediately converted to a criminal assault by taking your “defense” past the point where your assailant breaks off his/her assault.

So, word to the wise…once you get the upper hand…STOP. (Which is anthropologically REALLY hard to do!)

Ragspierre on March 23, 2012 at 4:36 PM

Why don’t you morons chill out a bit?

Wait for some actual facts before you condemn EITHER of them?

So far all you have are conflicting statements, some, from people who may not have been witnesses, and an inconclusive ’911′ recording.

You are giving 0bama and the media exactly what they want.

LegendHasIt on March 23, 2012 at 4:37 PM

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