Geraldo: Blame the hoodie for Trayvon Martin shooting as much as the shooter; Update: Florida law explained

posted at 11:00 am on March 23, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

As a gun-rights advocate, I constantly have to remind people that guns are a tool, not an entity with motives, and that the responsibility for its use lies with the shooter. For some reason, we have an impulse after tragedies to try to blame objects rather than people, or more likely, to blame everyone else (“society”) for the personal choices of an individual. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen it taken to the extent that Geraldo Rivera does in this morning’s Fox and Friends segment on Trayvon Martin’s death:

“I have a different take, Brian, on that,” Rivera said. “I believe that George Zimmerman, the overzealous neighborhood watch captain should be investigated to the fullest extent of the law and if he is criminally liable, he should be prosecuted. But I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies. I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was.”

According to Rivera, the so-called hoodie has negative connotations attached to it, which may inspire ill-advised reflexive reactions.

“When you see a kid walking down the street, particularly a dark skinned kid like my son Cruz who I constantly yelled at when he was going out wearing a damn hoodie or those pants around his ankles,” Rivera said. “Take that hood off. People look at you and what’s the instant identification? What’s the instant association? Its crime scene surveillance tapes. Every time you see someone stick up a 7-Eleven, the kid is wearing a hoodie. Every time you see a mugging on a surveillance camera or get the old lady in the alcove, it’s the kid with a hoodie. You have to recognize that this whole stylizing yourself as a gangsta — you’re going to be a gangsta wannabe? Well, people are going to perceive you as a menace. That’s what happens. It is an instant reflexive action.”

I’ve had a number of e-mails asking me to analyze the issues in the Martin/Zimmerman shooting. I’ve struggled with it, but I can assure readers that hoodies never came up in my calculations. I do get what Rivera is saying; I had this conversation with my nephew when he was a teenager, explaining that clothes are a statement of values that get communicated instantly to the people around him, especially to those who don’t know him. That doesn’t mean that baggy pants or a hoodie makes you complicit in your own death when someone shoots you for no other reason, however, and it’s a blame-the-victim impulse to make that argument.

Otherwise, this is a tough case to explain, in part because I’m much more familiar with Minnesota law than Florida law on self-defense. Under Minnesota law, Zimmerman would have been charged with some form of homicide, probably manslaughter, if the circumstances are what we have seen in the media. Minnesota law requires that the actor using lethal force in self-defense has to first be in reasonable fear of his life or of grave bodily harm, the latter of which means losing a limb, an eye, or significant maiming and not just getting one’s ass kicked. That requires some demonstration of lethality or threat of maiming before the shooting, not just a threatening motion.

Second, and equally importantly, the actor in a lethal deployment of self-defense has to not have contributed to the conflict that required it. This is where the difference between state laws might be an issue. In Minnesota, even under the Castle Doctrine law that Governor Mark Dayton vetoed, chasing down someone to shoot them would have been a clear violation of self-defense statutes and would probably result in manslaughter charges. I’m not sure how Florida’s Stand Your Ground law is written, though; it might allow someone who got threatened to chase the person who did the threatening with the intent of using deadly force. If so, that’s incredibly stupid, but it might explain why Zimmerman couldn’t get charged in this case. Stand Your Ground laws in general are supposed to allow people to defend themselves without having to demonstrate that retreat was impossible — in other words, avoiding the need to defend one’s self from the second-guessing of a district attorney later on whether the shooter had the opportunity to run and hope the potential attacker didn’t shoot, stab, or chase anyway. They aren’t supposed to allow shooters in this situation to chase down the threat and shoot, but again, I don’t know how Florida wrote its law.

My late friend Joel Rosenberg, who was also my carry-permit instructor, taught one lesson above all else: a carry permit was not a Junior G-Man badge, especially not in Minnesota. That seems to be a lesson Zimmerman didn’t learn, and Florida may need to modify its carry and self-defense statutes to make that much more clear.

Joel literally wrote the book on carry licensing in Minnesota, The Carry Book: Minnesota Edition.  Unfortunately Joel passed away before he could complete an edition that looked at the issue nationally, but even if you’re not in Minnesota, there is a ton of good advice for those who want to pursue carry licenses and handle firearms.  My particular favorite chapter of the book is titled, “Cowardice 201: A PhD Seminar in Advanced Staying Out of Trouble,” in which Joel reveals that the true secret of karate is to run faster than everyone else.  Self-defense starts with keeping out of situations where you will likely find yourself threatened.  Joel’s book is a sobering read, literally and figuratively.

Update: I forgot to mention another point about self-defense law in Minnesota. Once the threat ends, self-defense actions have to stop as well at that moment. That means that an antagonist who stops threatening lethality can’t be attacked with lethal force in self-defense.

Update II: A reader who has a carry permit in Florida e-mails a detailed response, which clarifies Florida law and shows that it’s much the same as Minnesota’s. What follows are his lengthy comments; I’m blockquoting where he quotes:

I have a Florida concealed weapon license. You said:

Minnesota law requires that the actor using lethal force in self-defense has to first be in reasonable fear of his life or of grave bodily harm, the latter of which means losing a limb, an eye, or significant maiming and not just getting one’s ass kicked. That requires some demonstration of lethality or threat of maiming before the shooting, not just a threatening motion.

The same is true in Florida.

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.

That means that you can use force (BUT NOT DEADLY FORCE) to proportionally defend against imminent use of force. So if someone cocks their fist back to punch you, you can beat them to the punch. You can’t #$%&ing shoot them because they were about to punch you.

However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony

So if someone is about to kill or severely main you or someone else, you can respond with deadly force. Again, the response has to be proportional to the threat.  read 776.013, as it contains a bunch of stipulations about the use of deadly force.

Finally, 776.041:

 The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Note #2… initially provokes the use of force against himself. That might apply here.

There is no situation where a confrontation you initiated, in which you were never threatened with mortal danger, can be legally ended by you using lethal force. Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter or maybe even second degree murder under Florida law.

My late friend Joel Rosenberg, who was also my carry-permit instructor, taught one lesson above all else: a carry permit was not a Junior G-Man badge, especially not in Minnesota. That seems to be a lesson Zimmerman didn’t learn, and Florida may need to modify its carry and self-defense statutes to make that much more clear.

They do make it clear, and the brochure you get when getting a license spells it out explicitly (this is an offical State of Florida brochure). They contain case studies where lethal force is not justified. Like it talks about one case where someone chased a robber off of their property and shot them. They were charged. You can use a
gun to stop a forcible felony, not bring someone to justice after they’ve fled. There is a case where neighbors get into an argument and one neighbor swings a garden hose at the other, who replies by shooting him. Charged. You can’t use a gun if you’re not in mortal danger. The brochure clearly explains that a CWL does not make you a law enforcement officer. I got this hammered into me really hard in the course I took (which is mandated by the state).

Here’s one of the pamphlets:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/forms/P-00090-DeadlyForce-0911.pdf

[end update II]


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 7 8 9 10 11 12

JannyMae

No problem I live in the area and one of the local news stations had one of their legal guys do a piece on some of the misinformation that was out there. That was a big one that no one tried to contact the family for 3 days the family simply did not report him missing which I found odd. There is much more but I am hoping the process is allowed to transpire.

A Stand your Ground case was thrown out in Miami yesterday by the Judge due to an arrest made at the scene and it seems they did not have what they needed due to the law to hold the guy on 2nd degree murder so he was freed……..just saying

Karla1953 on March 23, 2012 at 9:48 PM

davidk on March 23, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Or this.

BallisticBob on March 23, 2012 at 9:51 PM

Headline says it all:

Thousands in city join ‘Million Hoodie March’

davidk on March 23, 2012 at 9:52 PM

Given? Where exactly does our right to self defense come from? Is it an inalienable right, or a government created right?

NotCoach on March 23, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Every right is technically granted by the government. I hope you can understand that.

nonpartisan on March 23, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Total, Absolute, Epic Fail!

Pride in ignorance is not a sign of intelligence.

Do the words, “Endowed by their creator with certain unaliable rights” mean antything to you?

Obviously Not!

jaydee_007 on March 23, 2012 at 9:52 PM

Here’s a better idea. Everybody needs to STFU and let the various investigations run their course.
Exactly….

JannyMae on March 23, 2012 at 9:40 PM

Exactly! Everyone needs to STHU! Except of course regarding Geraldo Rivera and his pompous pretention and disgusting desires to shoot a hot loogie at Michelle Malkin next time he sees her. What a lousy cretin.

It’s the HOODIE I tell you!

flicker on March 23, 2012 at 9:55 PM

Maybe the headline doesn’t tell it all:

http://twitpic.com/90cpyw
http://twitpic.com/90cugo

davidk on March 23, 2012 at 9:59 PM

If Zimmerman isn’t convicted of some type of felony murder, regardless of whether he’s actually guilty of such a charge, then there will be rioting and murder. There will be blood in the streets.

Paul-Cincy on March 23, 2012 at 10:00 PM

My fear is that Obama and the left will use this as an excuse for even greater attacks on the Second Amendment. Eric Holder failed to bring about banning guns with Fast and Furious. Outrage over this black teen being killed is their plan B.

Happy Nomad on March 23, 2012 at 9:45 PM

Fifty buck says that this lingers and stays in the news for months, and every week some professional race agitator gets sound bites on the news, and at one time or another Obama will argue this case as another reason for civil discourse, gun control and the fairness doctrine.

flicker on March 23, 2012 at 10:03 PM

“Can’t we all just ge, geh, get along?”

Anybody remember Reginald Denny?

flicker on March 23, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Clearly, hispanics shouldn’t be allowed to own guns.

Rebar on March 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM

Clearly, hispanics shouldn’t be allowed to own guns.

Rebar on March 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM

White Hispanics. I wonder if that classification will show up on the next census forms.

NotCoach on March 23, 2012 at 10:11 PM

White Hispanics. I wonder if that classification will show up on the next census forms.

NotCoach on March 23, 2012 at 10:11 PM

What’s the over/under for when 0bama will be called a “white black”?

Rebar on March 23, 2012 at 10:15 PM

That being said, the folks screaming racism better calm down. There’s been a huge amount of black-on-white crime over the last few years that’s gotten almost zero coverage in the press and you don’t see white folks holding rallies and protests demanding justice.

First of all, I’d love for you to cite some actual statistics on black on white vs. black on black crime in “the last few years.” I think the later is a much bigger issue than the former.

libfreeordie on March 23, 2012 at 11:31 AM

If you go here you will find the raw data.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

Compiling the data will reveal;

There is more black-on-white than black-on-black violent crime.

Of the approximately 1,700,000 interracial crimes of violence involving blacks and whites, 90 percent are committed by blacks against whites.

Blacks are therefore up to 250 times more likely to do criminal violence to whites than the reverse.

Blacks commit violent crimes at four to eight times the white rate.

Hispanics commit violent crimes at approximately three times the white rate, and Asians at one half to three quarters the white rate.

Blacks are twice as likely as whites to commit hate crimes.
Hispanics are a hate crime victim category but not a perpetrator category.

Hispanic offenders are classified as whites, which inflates the white offense rate and gives the impression that Hispanics commit no hate crimes.

Blacks are as much more dangerous than whites as men are more
dangerous than women.

jaydee_007 on March 23, 2012 at 10:21 PM

What’s the over/under for when 0bama will be called a “white black”?

Rebar on March 23, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Well, what is the over/under on him losing the election? Because if he does I think he his going to get tossed under the bus for single handedly burying the Democratic Party. So I can see the typical race hustlers attempting to insult him in this manner to portray him as inadequate for the cause.

NotCoach on March 23, 2012 at 10:21 PM

I haven’t read all the comments yet but has this been linked.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.html

Mr. Zimmerman appears to have been interested in joining law enforcement.

Cindy Munford on March 23, 2012 at 6:58 PM

Well, the press is lying about the outcomes being sealed. One case was diverted and dismissed and the DV case was never filed. You’re welcome.

Blake on March 23, 2012 at 10:25 PM

If Zimmerman isn’t convicted of some type of felony murder, regardless of whether he’s actually guilty of such a charge, then there will be rioting and murder. There will be blood in the streets.

I agree….can’t get 8000 racial agitators bussed in without the promise of a bloody bar-b-cue. right.

PopEyes , hoodies and skittles for everyone. Oh…and those 9MM…for effect….bring them on to. The “colors” demand it.

Twana on March 23, 2012 at 10:29 PM

Newt’s full statement:

“What the president said, in a sense, is disgraceful. It’s not a question of who that young man looked like. Any young American of any ethnic background should be safe, period. We should all be horrified no matter what the ethnic background.
Is the president suggesting that if it had been a white who had been shot, that would be OK because it didn’t look like him. That’s just nonsense dividing this country up. It is a tragedy this young man was shot. It would have been a tragedy if he had been Puerto Rican or Cuban or if he had been white or if he had been Asian American of if he’d been a Native American. At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans. When things go wrong to an American, it is sad for all Americans. Trying to turn it into a racial issue is fundamentally wrong. I really find it appalling.”

onlineanalyst on March 23, 2012 at 10:38 PM

That means that you can use force (BUT NOT DEADLY FORCE) to proportionally defend against imminent use of force. So if someone cocks their fist back to punch you, you can beat them to the punch. You can’t #$%&ing shoot them because they were about to punch you.

A single punch can quite easily kill you and indeed does kill people quite regularly. Since I know this, I truly feel in fear of my life when someone cocks their fist back. Even worse than this, I fear for my extremely expensive veneers.

Sharke on March 23, 2012 at 10:44 PM

can we have a million Mexicans march?

how about a million Brian terry march?

a million Jaime Zapata march?

was Trayvon Martin killed by a fast and furious gun?

ted c on March 23, 2012 at 10:45 PM

There’re a lot of statistics on inter- and intra-racial murder coming out in commentary now. But I would like to post for further debate this:

Update 5:20 p.m. We’ve just learned from the Sanford Police that there is evidently a typo on the first page of the neighborhood watch calls report they provided. The date range of Zimmerman’s calls, they say, evidently is 2001-2012, not 2011-2012, which means his 46 calls came over a 10- to 11-year period — roughly four calls per year — and not four calls per month as the initial police statistics revealed.– Andrew Cohen, The Atlantic March 21, 2012

The first thing we need to do is find out the facts — if the media will provide them — until then, we really shouldn’t be convicting people in the court of public opinion.

flicker on March 23, 2012 at 10:50 PM

I fear for my extremely expensive veneers.

Sharke on March 23, 2012 at 10:44 PM

I guess you think thats…ummmm”funny”. Look friend….If I was following Mike Tyson…and all had was a .380…and all he had was that fist….would I be guilty of defending myself…knowing that his fist would most likely send me into paradise?

Am I now supposed to qualify the potential effect of his fist…vis a vie my gun….??? Am I supposed to ummmm just chance it?

Twana on March 23, 2012 at 10:50 PM

theblackcommenter on March 23, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Why do you feel the need to include your skin color in your moniker? What purpose does it serve? Just wondering.

Signed,
a white commenter

silvernana on March 23, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Because I’m black and I comment. it is also the name I go by on my blog: theblackcommenter.wordpress.com

feel free to take a look.

theblackcommenter on March 23, 2012 at 4:55 PM

That doesn’t really answer the question. I’m white and I comment, but I don’t feel the need to say I’m white because it doesn’t really matter the color of your skin. Apparently it does to you.

silvernana on March 23, 2012 at 11:19 PM

As much as this whole tragedy simply sucks, I’m getting sick to death of the race angle being hyped on it by not only the usual race hustlers, but the entire left and the media, etc.

Has one of these rat bastards shown a sliver of this kind of outrage every time a black person kills a white person? Not trying to do some equivalency here, but I’m sick and f@#$ing tired of all of the hypocrisy coming from all the usual suspects.

What are the stats? How many times are unarmed white folks killed by armed black folks, and vice versa? And they’re outright threatening vengeance/violence/retaliation? Are you f@#$ing kidding me? If whites acted this way every time the shoe was on the other foot, well – that’s just unimaginable, isn’t it?

Midas on March 23, 2012 at 11:29 PM

jaydee_007 on March 23, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Clearly it’s time for white people to follow the Sharpton/Jackson/Farakhan guidance and take to the streets with an eye towards killing some black folks violently and at random.

Right?

I know you’re not advocating that, but statistically speaking, this would clearly much more appropriate and more warranted than the outrage on display down in Florida by these racist rat bastard race hustlers exploiting the tragic death of that young man.

Shame on them; may God have mercy on their shriveled and worthless souls.

Midas on March 23, 2012 at 11:35 PM

Although it’s no excuse for what the shooter did, in this case Geraldo has a point. Hoodies are the modern day equivalent of a burglar’s mask. I work retail and any time I see someone wearing a hoodie with the hood up walk in the door of my store my danger sense goes off. Just watch any show with real life crime footage and you’ll see 9/10 the person is sporting a hoodie. That article of clothing has a specific culture and connotation connected to it and it is that of the violent criminal.

Still doesn’t excuse the shooter though. You don’t fatally shoot an unarmed civilian no matter what.

ManFromNowhere on March 23, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Still doesn’t excuse the shooter though. You don’t fatally shoot an unarmed civilian no matter what.

ManFromNowhere on March 23, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Sure you do. If you are in a reasonable fear for your life, you can use deadly force. Would being straddled and punched in the face cause you to fear for you life? It would me.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 12:12 AM

That doesn’t really answer the question. I’m white and I comment, but I don’t feel the need to say I’m white because it doesn’t really matter the color of your skin. Apparently it does to you.

silvernana on March 23, 2012 at 11:19 PM

Does the color of your hair and the fact that you’re a grandma really matter? No! Yet, it does to you.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 12:17 AM

I just spent 14 days on a criminal case jury… The dark blue/black HOODIE was everywhere up in there.
-
Murder, Armed Robbery, Terroristic Threats, and Tampering with a Witness (to name the major charges)…
-
Drug gangs, turf war, guns and convenience store video… (you get the picture)
-
I heard the ‘hoodie’ called a “uniform” of the drug gang culture.
-
Sad part… None of the big charges stuck. The Armed Robbery missed by one juror going NG… I almost puked when she said… and I quote…
“I’d rather set ten guilty men free then send one inocent man to jail”.
-
The brainwashing is complete in her.
-
Personally I’d rather set the innocent man free and send the guilty man to jail but then that is just me…
-
He admitted that it had happened and what his part was in a police video-taped interview…
-
Maybe she thought that the hoodie made him do it…..
-

RalphyBoy on March 24, 2012 at 12:42 AM

Police report of the incident:
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

Video interview of the eye witness:
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

From http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin , Trayvon was already under a five-day suspension from school and staying in a house so far from his school on a school night.

As probably mentioned elsewhere here, the report and witness puts it like this:

* The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him. Zimmerman was heard screaming and yelling for help by the witness.

* Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.

* Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

I think it’s likely that Trayvon already had an attitude problem, didn’t like being followed by a Neighborhood Watch member which the gated community had banded together and is paying for, and decided to teach Zimmerman a lesson by getting into his face and jumped him. Except Zimmerman had a equalizer in his pocket when he was laying on the ground and getting his brains beaten out by the thug.

But since the Sharpton wing of the Justice Brothers is making this a race issue, he may want to go to Kansas City and demand justice for the white 13-year-old boy who police say was doused with gasoline and lit on fire by two black 16-year-olds.

bgwillia on March 24, 2012 at 12:50 AM

Thanks, bgwillia on March 24, 2012 at 12:50 AM

pambi on March 24, 2012 at 1:10 AM

Others have predicted the possibility of race riots if Zimmerman, guilty or not, isn’t judgede guilty on some trumped up charge.

If there is a race riot, how about arresting Obama for inciting it? Make him an accomplice to murder,

MaiDee on March 24, 2012 at 1:13 AM

* The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him. Zimmerman was heard screaming and yelling for help by the witness.
* Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.

* Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

I think it’s likely that Trayvon already had an attitude problem, didn’t like being followed by a Neighborhood Watch member which the gated community had banded together and is paying for, and decided to teach Zimmerman a lesson by getting into his face and jumped him. Except Zimmerman had a equalizer in his pocket when he was laying on the ground and getting his brains beaten out by the thug.

But since the Sharpton wing of the Justice Brothers is making this a race issue, he may want to go to Kansas City and demand justice for the white 13-year-old boy who police say was doused with gasoline and lit on fire by two black 16-year-olds.

bgwillia on March 24, 2012 at 12:50 AM

That’s what I meant by edited recordings released by the press. We were never given the context, read the report, or played to full recordings in the media.

The guy you all heard screaming and crying out for help was the neighborhood watch guy!

But thanks to sloppy agenda-driven media now the whole country got the image of a screaming boy being shot, and minorities are calling for demonstrations from coast to coast, and it can never be turned back.

And Jesse and Al run to the cameras to ply their race-rage trade.

flicker on March 24, 2012 at 2:10 AM

You don’t fatally shoot an unarmed civilian no matter what.

ManFromNowhere on March 23, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Not even when a 6 foot 3 inch man has you on your back and is pounding your head into the cement?

Really?

Because I personally would go for slidelock if in that position.

But I guess I’m supposed to let him kill me, you know, for racial harmony, right?

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 2:25 AM

No, you are not allowed to police my Blackness. No, I will not dress a certain way to make you feel good or make you feel safe. No, I will not show you my papers like a newly freed slave. No, I don’t owe you an explanation for why I am where I am or why I am who I am. I don’t need your permission to be me, and I don’t intend to seek it. With that said, if hooded Black maleness causes you fear, remember that hoods caused us fear first

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 2:28 AM

If Zimmerman isn’t convicted of some type of felony murder, regardless of whether he’s actually guilty of such a charge, then there will be rioting and murder. There will be blood in the streets.

Paul-Cincy on March 23, 2012 at 10:00 PM

Obama helped stir up this potentially violent Mob with his “son” comment. Anyone within 100 miles of this place better have something to protect themselves with. Sadly, more neighborhood watches will be in order.

scotash on March 24, 2012 at 4:10 AM

No, you are not allowed to police my Blackness. No, I will not dress a certain way to make you feel good or make you feel safe. No, I will not show you my papers like a newly freed slave. No, I don’t owe you an explanation for why I am where I am or why I am who I am. I don’t need your permission to be me, and I don’t intend to seek it. With that said, if hooded Black maleness causes you fear, remember that hoods caused us fear first

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 2:28 AM

How revealing… Sure explains alot. Shouldn’t you be a little more pissed at the African tribal warlords who captured and sold your poor ancestors as slaves in the first place? I wonder what kind of “hoods” they were wearing?

If you wanna go for “original sin” on the slavery issue, look straight to mother Africa, where slavery is still alive and well, and thank your lucky stars you made it here. Stop blaming the culture that sacrificed nearly 700,000 of its sons to put an end to slavery in the civilized western world. Your freedom did not come for free.

And no, I don’t “fear” the hoodie in the slightest, and do not respect its wearer at all – the one who is too afraid and ashamed of himself to show his face in public. How weak is that? Your “assumed victimhood” as a black renders you unworthy of respect, whether you realize it or not. Respect is earned by ones deeds and achievements, not one’s status as a “victim” of some kind. Grow up and act like a man for a change. Google “LTC Allen West” for your clue to becoming a MAN worthy of RESPECT.

Geraldo was partially right on this – the hoodie, practically a uniform in the criminal culture, instantly communicates that its wearer is a criminal who is afraid to show his face and be recognized – So the very first thing Trayvon Martin communicated to Mr. Zimmerman was that he was a criminal, unworthy of respect, all in a glance. Even Jesse Jackson gets that.

Harbingeing on March 24, 2012 at 4:10 AM

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 2:28 AM

Here”s my question? How long do I have to worry about your “blackness”?
Seriously.
I’m pretty sick of being told I have to see color.
I am thoroughly confused.
I can not be outraged by one crime but I HAVE to be outraged if any black person is killed by a non black, because why? Why doesn’t black on black matter? Why doesn’t that 13 yo boy matter?
Evverytime there has been a racial topic on here, I say the same thing. The race baiting makes no sense unless you are willing to admit that it is all about power and who, exactly, it empowers. It doesn’t empower you and it doesn’t empower me.
Who, exactly, gains from this, libfreeordie?

ORconservative on March 24, 2012 at 5:35 AM

Here”s my question? How long do I have to worry about your “blackness”?

Today. You don’t ever have to “worry” about my blackness. If you worry about it, then thats on you. What you do need to do is respect my humanity. And accept that part of my humanity is a complex black culture that joins me with others, but also is complex and distinct. If want to *learn* about my blackness there are many wonderful books I can recommend to you. But no, you never have to “worry” about it. That’s revealing.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 8:02 AM

My take.

kingsjester on March 24, 2012 at 8:04 AM

No, Geraldo, it was beating on another human being that got the thug killed. There is a witness, a 911 recording, and physical evidence proving this was self defense.

dogsoldier on March 24, 2012 at 8:14 AM

You don’t fatally shoot an unarmed civilian no matter what.
ManFromNowhere on March 23, 2012 at 11:45 PM
Not even when a 6 foot 3 inch man has you on your back and is pounding your head into the cement?
Really?
Because I personally would go for slidelock if in that position.
But I guess I’m supposed to let him kill me, you know, for racial harmony, right?
Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 2:25 AM

I’m with rebar

If someone did that to me I’d definitely put him out of my misery if that was my only option

I don’t feel like I have to take a beating to save some mother effers life ever, I’m just not that nice especially when you cannot have any idea how far the punk is going to go

Side note

Go get a can of wasp/hornet killer with a stream delivery

Better than mace

Sonosam on March 24, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Well, if that’s the case, then why don’t we allow ppl to own tanks on their lawns for defense, or bazookas, or anthrax?

A’mrite?

nonpartisan on March 23, 2012 at 11:08 AM

<

Wade on March 24, 2012 at 9:20 AM

I wanted to comment of the above quote but can’t understand the language without a hoodie on.

Wade on March 24, 2012 at 9:21 AM

ted c on March 23, 2012 at 10:45 PM

Just made my list of “guys I would have a beer with”…

MooCowBang on March 24, 2012 at 9:32 AM

You don’t fatally shoot an unarmed civilian no matter what.

ManFromNowhere on March 23, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Not even when a 6 foot 3 inch man has you on your back and is pounding your head into the cement?

Really?

Because I personally would go for slidelock if in that position.

But I guess I’m supposed to let him kill me, you know, for racial harmony, right?

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 2:25 AM

I had no idea Zimmerman was on the ground being beaten by hoodieman. What little I had heard about the incident made it sound like Zimmerman saw hoodieman eating some skittles and then shot hoodieman for looking threatening. Still, you should try to go for the non-leathal wound when possible. But if it’s a life or death split-second decision then that changes things.

ManFromNowhere on March 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM

ORconservative on March 24, 2012 at 5:35 AM

Let me clarify O.R….

1. You ar correct on all counts.

2. Libfree is not black. He/she/it is a mooslim albino with roots in outer mongolia. He/she/it is scuuuurd (thats how “they” say it) because half white oblammo is losing ground in the presidential race.

MooCowBang on March 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM

What little I had heard about the incident made it sound like Zimmerman saw hoodieman eating some skittles and then shot hoodieman for looking threatening.

ManFromNowhere on March 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Media bias much?

MooCowBang on March 24, 2012 at 9:40 AM

Still, you should try to go for the non-leathal wound when possible.

Nah

Sonosam on March 24, 2012 at 9:48 AM

What little I had heard about the incident made it sound like Zimmerman saw hoodieman eating some skittles and then shot hoodieman for looking threatening.

ManFromNowhere on March 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Media bias much?

MooCowBang on March 24, 2012 at 9:40 AM

Does anyone have a link to confirm that Zimmerman was indeed assaulted by hoodieman? I haven’t seen this account of the story anywhere even on conservative sites. People seem so preoccupied with talking about the aftermath that no one seems to care about the incident itself.

ManFromNowhere on March 24, 2012 at 9:58 AM

MooCowBang on March 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM

I know.
And the point I get back is that I need to read books.
Not much brain power on the other side, which is why this works so well for the left.

ORconservative on March 24, 2012 at 10:11 AM

For blink, and any libertarian leaning conservative. This is the real crisis of liberty in this country.

http://vimeo.com/37414572

Does anyone have a link to confirm that Zimmerman was indeed assaulted by hoodieman

Nope. They are going off the testimony of one of the many witnesses who said that at some point during the altercation Trayvon had the upper hand over Zimmerman and was punching him. People act as if Zimmerman’s self-defense claim is legitimate. This is false and has been analyzed in depth by Ed Morrissey. However, there are certain posters on this board, and people in this country, who have a powerful investment in racial privilege. As a result, they will *never* be able to accept that Zimmerman followed and stalked Trayvon and started an altercation with him that lead to violence, and then shot him. They *can’t* believe it. It messes with their worldview.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 10:12 AM

There are a couple links over on GP in the comment section that detail what happened. One from Sanford Police Department.

ORconservative on March 24, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Maybe we should all just read books libfreeordie, and then we would be as smart as you.

ORconservative on March 24, 2012 at 10:18 AM

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Eat caca

The racial dooshbags aren’t us

And crime happens to be committed by one racial group at a very unequal rate compared to others and it’s noones fault but deyown

Nome sane?

Sonosam on March 24, 2012 at 10:18 AM

Every right is technically granted by the government. I hope you can understand that.

nonpartisan on March 23, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Sigh. I blame the sorry state of our public education system.

mbs on March 24, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Every right is technically granted by the government. I hope you can understand that.
nonpartisan on March 23, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Lenin loves you

Sonosam on March 24, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Nope. Blah blah liberal talking points blah blah

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 10:12 AM

I meant from someone sane and/or credible of which you are neither.

There are a couple links over on GP in the comment section that detail what happened. One from Sanford Police Department.

ORconservative on March 24, 2012 at 10:16 AM

GP? Gateway Pundit?

ManFromNowhere on March 24, 2012 at 10:33 AM

there are certain posters on this board, and people in this country, who have a powerful investment in racial privilege.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Please name them. Especially those posting here.

And please read this. It will give you some perspective, that is if you are willing to read it. This was written by John Hinderaker of Power Line, who is an expert on exposing the Leftist Agenda of the Democrat Media (he was wrong of the bloggers responsible for bring down Dan Rather for trying to use forged documents to swing a national election to the Democrat):

1) For liberals, it is always 1962, and we are always in Mississippi. Unfortunately, however–from their perspective–it isn’t 1962, and the problems we now face are far more complicated and harder of solution than the problems of the early 1960s. In fact, liberalism offers no guidance in the present circumstances. So any time something happens that allows liberals to pretend that the 1962 template is operative once again, they rush in. Hence Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, etc., politicizing the shooting of Mr. Martin; and Barack Obama, too.

2) This incident, whatever you think of it, has nothing to do with the Civil Rights template. The neighborhood where the incident happened is multiracial, only about 50% white. The man who shot Martin, George Zimmerman, is a Hispanic who has African-American relatives and may himself be partly black. He appears to be something of a nut, obsessively calling 911. He evidently thinks that he is a some kind of neighborhood watchman, but he has no official capacity of any sort and is unknown to the national neighborhood watch organization. Whatever he did, he did on his own, and not as part of some sort of movement or political faction.

3) This case has nothing to do with race. Racialists cite Zimmerman’s muttering of the phrase “f****** c**ns” while on the phone with 911 as evidence of racism. Others have interpreted that phrase differently, but to me, the one time I listened to it, it sounded like “f****** c**ns.” But so what? It is not illegal to say “f****** c**ns.” Zimmerman or anyone else can go around muttering “f****** c**ns” to his heart’s content. What caused the problem here was not Zimmerman’s mumbling into the telephone, whatever he said, but rather the fact that he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. The case would be exactly the same if Martin were white or, like Zimmerman, Hispanic. The only question is, did Zimmerman act in self-defense, or did he murder Martin?

Part 2 to follow

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Part 2 of Power Line’s John Hinderaker on this case:

4) In my opinion, the fact that local authorities have found it difficult to charge Zimmerman is ludicrous. They seem to be taking the position that Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense, and with Martin dead, there is no one to contradict him. If established as a general principle, that thinking would let a lot of murderers go free. The reality is that there is always evidence other than the testimony of the survivor. There is considerable physical evidence, and here, both of the protagonists were on the telephone until moments before their final confrontation. Some of that conversation was recorded. In addition, there may well be eyewitness testimony. In my view, Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter, at a minimum. When the evidence ultimately comes in, it may well sustain that charge. If the case fails for lack of proof, so be it. It wouldn’t be the first time. But for the case not to be charged would be a travesty; based, at least, on the information that is now public.

5) A final comment on self-defense. The Florida “stand your ground” statute, which some liberals are blaming for the incident, has little if anything to do with it. Zimmerman was entitled to follow Martin around if he wanted to, even though the 911 operator advised him not to. He was not, however, entitled to start a fight with Martin and, if the altercation was going poorly for him, draw his gun and shoot Martin. That is not self-defense. On the other hand, if it was Martin who started the altercation, even if Zimmerman was behaving somewhat weirdly, and if Zimmerman reasonably feared great bodily harm, he would have been justified in shooting Martin.

6) Maybe the relevant facts can be established beyond a reasonable doubt, and maybe they can’t be. But worse cases than this one are charged all the time. The local authorities should charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, at a minimum, and try to prove their case with the various forms of evidence that are available. Based on what we now know, I would think their chance of success is good. But in any event, if a jury decides to the contrary, Martin’s family will have had its well-deserved day in court.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Filing charges when there is legally insufficient evidence to support them is unethical. Shame on Hindraker!

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 10:49 AM

There are a couple links over on GP in the comment section that detail what happened. One from Sanford Police Department.

ORconservative on March 24, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Found the links you mentioned and figure I’d put them here because I’m guessing most people have not heard the full story like me:

Witness account of the incident.

Statement by Sanford PD.

ManFromNowhere on March 24, 2012 at 10:54 AM

People act as if Zimmerman’s self-defense claim is legitimate.

Applying the facts to the law, it is legitimate.

This is false and has been analyzed in depth by Ed Morrissey.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 10:12 AM

No, it is true. And Ed is not an expert on criminal law. Not even close. The DAs, who handle thousands of self defense cases every year, are experts. They reviewed all the evidence and found insufficient evidence to file charges. Luckily, unlike Hinderaker, they put the law and professional ethics, above pandering to the mob.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Should have said applying the law to the facts…

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Nope. They are going off the testimony of one of the many witnesses who said that at some point during the altercation Trayvon had the upper hand over Zimmerman and was punching him. People act as if Zimmerman’s self-defense claim is legitimate. This is false and has been analyzed in depth by Ed Morrissey. However, there are certain posters on this board, and people in this country, who have a powerful investment in racial privilege. As a result, they will *never* be able to accept that Zimmerman followed and stalked Trayvon and started an altercation with him that lead to violence, and then shot him. They *can’t* believe it. It messes with their worldview.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Wow, if anybody has shown insistence on believing something because it conforms to their world view, it’s you, pal. You kept screaming that this was all racially motivated because the victim was black, it HAD TO BE RACISM. You are the one imagining things about “racial privilege.” You are so determined to see racism everywhere, you see it as part of the Republican Party platform, but you don’t see the reality of the way YOUR OWN BRETHREN in the black community promote racial divide to their advantage. You even ragged on another black person for doing a disservice to their child by not teaching them what YOU BELIEVE about race in this country.

You are a sad, sad individual.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Does the color of your hair and the fact that you’re a grandma really matter? No! Yet, it does to you.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 12:17 AM

Hey nitwit, the silver does not refer to the color of my hair. Even if it did, it is not relevant. This post has to do with race.

silvernana on March 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Nope.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Liar. There is physical evidence, a witness and a recording. The links are back up the thread a bit. Nice how you try to pretend the thug didn’t try to beat someone into the ground. You should also avoid making racial statements since you know nothing of the ethnicity of anyone here.

dogsoldier on March 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Luckily, unlike Hinderaker, they put the law and professional ethics, above pandering to the mob.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 11:10 AM

For now. I will wager that Sharpton and Jackson will try to warp this situation into an anti-white crusade.

dogsoldier on March 24, 2012 at 11:15 AM

A Hispanic man kills a black man, so the left blames whitey.

A lone Hispanic, acting on his own, kills a black who, according to eyewitness testimony and physical evidence, attacked the Hispanic, so the repellent, opportunistic, race-hustler Jesse Jackson announces that “blacks are under attack.”

Meanwhile, blacks kill blacks, and blacks kill Hispanics, and blacks hill whites, on a daily basis. The left does not care. Doesn’t fit the lefty narrative.

Welcome to the left’s vision of fairness, equality, and justice. Welcome to Obama’s America.

HeatSeeker2011 on March 24, 2012 at 11:15 AM

ManFromNowhere on March 24, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Thank you for posting those links; they are very revealing. It looks like the self-defense angle is legitimate and was the reason charges were not filed. So much for the “white guy hunts down an innocent child and shoots him because he’s black” narrative.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Meanwhile, the New Black Panther Party is passing out posters saying Zimmerman is wanted dead or alive, while a witness says he saw Martin beating up on Zimmerman before the shooting. Didn’t see that in the news, you say? Not surprising.

http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/new-black-panther-party-poster-george-zimmerman-wanted-dead-or-alive

jdawg on March 24, 2012 at 11:29 AM

ManFromNowhere on March 24, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Thank you. Swamped this morning.

ORconservative on March 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

No matter how foolish Sharpton and Jackson always come out looking after stirring up their racial riots, as in the Duke lacrosse case, they are always back to their same tricks. I, for one, am tired of this crap, and it is time to put a stop to it. I hope, in this case, they come out looking like the idiots they are.

Obama is looking for something to start a race riot, so anything like this is an opportunity. They may not like the result they get. White people are tired of this BS. We’re tired of getting blamed as a whole when a black is killed and being called racists. Obama has set this nation back fifty years in race relations. You know what, you can call me racist if you want, because I am fast becoming that way. Thank you Obama.

silvernana on March 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM

No, you are not allowed to police my Blackness. No, I will not dress a certain way to make you feel good or make you feel safe. No, I will not show you my papers like a newly freed slave. No, I don’t owe you an explanation for why I am where I am or why I am who I am. I don’t need your permission to be me, and I don’t intend to seek it. With that said, if hooded Black maleness causes you fear, remember that hoods caused us fear first

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 2:28 AM

You know who else is afraid of hooded black males? Ordinary law abiding black people in ghetto areas who are all too aware of how the violent criminals in their neighborhoods dress. Are they racist too? What about Jesse Jackson, after he said that when he hears footsteps behind him at night and turns around and sees they’re from a white person, he’s relieved? Are you going to treat him to your little speech as well?

Sharke on March 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Liar. There is physical evidence, a witness and a recording. The links are back up the thread a bit. Nice how you try to pretend the thug didn’t try to beat someone into the ground. You should also avoid making racial statements since you know nothing of the ethnicity of anyone here.

dogsoldier on March 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

There are just as many witnesses who claim that Trayvon was the one calling for help. I’ve posted those links and yet you seem to only have heard the one witness who confirms Zimmerman’s statement. Hmmmmmm

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

bgwillia on March 24, 2012 at 12:50 AM

That third link also includes a follow up article, which is here

From the end of that piece:

Since my first article on this subject I have received both a tidal wave of support and a tidal wave of hateful vitriol. I’ve been called every slur in the book. I believe that the popularity of my article is responsible for Fox Tampa Bay breaking their silence, and I feel completely vindicated.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Hey nitwit, the silver does not refer to the color of my hair. Even if it did, it is not relevant. This post has to do with race.

silvernana on March 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Hey, you old bat! I don’t care what your hair color is. Stop harping about the guy’s moniker. You’re not fooling anyone.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

There are just as many witnesses who claim that Trayvon was the one calling for help. I’ve posted those links and yet you seem to only have heard the one witness who confirms Zimmerman’s statement. Hmmmmmm

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

You mean the links from HuffPo? If you think they have credence, then you need to contact the police department in Sanford, so they can amend their statement

Seems they only gave credibility to that one witness who confirms Zimmerman’s statement. Of course there are also some other details that might have led to their conclusions.

Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.

Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

We all know that if the dead kid was white, and the guy was black you’d be taking an entirely different tack on the situation. You so want to make this about race, so you can condemn evil whitey.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 11:55 AM

On April 22, 2011, Zimmerman called to report a black male about “7-9” years old, four feet tall, with a “skinny build” and short black hair. There is no indication in the police report of the reason for Zimmerman’s suspicion of the boy.

From

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/03/23/george_zimmerman_s_long_lonely_war_against_black_youths_doing_things.html

Wow, GZ had some serious issues with black people, from nearly the cradle to the premature grave he put one in.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 11:55 AM

You mean the links from HuffPo? If you think they have credence, then you need to contact the police department in Sanford, so they can amend their statement

You start with the presumption that the police are honest, despite mounds of evidence that the Sanford PD has a history of racial bias. And general evidence that police lie all the time You ignore the witness who told ABC news that police attempted to correct her story.

I guess the only evidence that has credence is the evidence that fits your narrative.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 11:59 AM

I thought everyone already knew about this witness? I guess not.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 11:59 AM

There are just as many witnesses who claim that Trayvon was the one calling for help. I’ve posted those links and yet you seem to only have heard the one witness who confirms Zimmerman’s statement. Hmmmmmm

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

Yet you have studiously ignored the evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman: specifically: (i)the blood on Zimmerman’s face and the back of his head; and (ii)the mud and grass on Zimmerman’s back.

You are a sneering, lying little racist. In a previous thread, I called you a liar. You demanded that I show you one statement where you had lied. Easy. I promptly showed you a statement where you lied. You did not respond.

You are like Jesse, Al, The Black Panthers, and Calypso Louie: step in, lob some grenades, and disappear. Facts mean nothing. Facts mean nothing. The presumption of innocence means nothing. To you, this is a good opportunity to start a race war. A Hispanic killed a black, so we gotta get whitey.

That may not be such a good idea. It may not turn out the way you hope.

HeatSeeker2011 on March 24, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Hey nitwit, the silver does not refer to the color of my hair. Even if it did, it is not relevant. This post has to do with race.

silvernana on March 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Hey, you old bat! I don’t care what your hair color is. Stop harping about the guy’s moniker. You’re not fooling anyone.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

You are the one who brought up my hair color, which is just ignorant. Still not relevant to the conversation I was having with someone else until you injected yourself into it. I have a right just like you do to come on here and say whatever I wish and you do not get to control that. I don’t even know what you mean when you say “you are not fooling anyone”. Are you part of the trash that came in on the last open registration?

silvernana on March 24, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Possibly, Sharpton and the media saw the name “Zimmerman” and assumed that he was Jewish. (Remember Sharpton and Crown Heights?) Now it turns out that Zimmerman is “Hispanic” — whatever that is supposed to mean. So now what? We’ve got one Officially Protected Minority versus another Officially Protected Minority. Should racial paranoia be redirected toward Hispanics, or what? Another edifying Chapter in The Brotherhood of Man and Creative Scapegoating for Fun and Profit. Meanwhile, the truth — whatever that may be — gets buried under a mountain of inflammatory propaganda.

Scriptor on March 24, 2012 at 12:02 PM

As for Trayvon’s father. Here he is saying that the voice on the tape is his son’s. Considering that the police have been dishonest in this case from the beginning I do not believe their statement that Tracy Martin said it wasn’t his son screaming.

Here is Tracy Martin speaking on this question. Gee JennyMae, you sure don’t seem familiar with evidence that doesn’t fit your narrative. At least I’ve read the Sanford PD’s bogus report.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 12:02 PM

There are just as many witnesses who claim that Trayvon was the one calling for help. I’ve posted those links and yet you seem to only have heard the one witness who confirms Zimmerman’s statement. Hmmmmmm

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

His father listened to the 911 tape and said the person screaming for help was not his son, corroborating the statement of the eye witness at the scene.

dogsoldier on March 24, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Wow, GZ had some serious issues with black people, from nearly the cradle to the premature grave he put one in.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Well, those who behave suspiciously. There were 8 burglaries, 9 thefts, and 1 shooting in the past year in his neighborhood.

Also, he and his wife also worked with black kids and treated them to games, etc., on their own dime.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Yet you have studiously ignored the evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman: specifically: (i)the blood on Zimmerman’s face and the back of his head; and (ii)the mud and grass on Zimmerman’s back.

Do you deny that Zimmerman followed and initially approached Martin? Unless you deny that, then what you are saying is that not only did Martin deserve to be followed and accosted by an armed stranger, but that he didn’t even have the right to defend himself. Zimmerman, by his own admission on the 911 tapes, was following Trayvon. Even after Trayvon started to run. After tracking him down a fight ensued. But the initial aggressive act is Zimmerman following and stalking Trayvon for no reason. Are you actually saying that at no point Trayvon would’ve been allowed to defend himself from Zimmerman’s aggression? At some point Trayvon may have had the upper hand. But why did the fight start in the first place? Trayvon had gone to the store to get candy and skittles and was talking on the phone to a friend, when someone approached him from behind. Then the line went dead. Are you actually saying he had no right of self defense himself?

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 12:06 PM

His father listened to the 911 tape and said the person screaming for help was not his son, corroborating the statement of the eye witness at the scene.

dogsoldier on March 24, 2012 at 12:02 PM

See the link I posted at 12:02pm

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Wow, GZ had some serious issues with black people, from nearly the cradle to the premature grave he put one in.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Wow, Dave Weigel from Journolist, you’re linking to, now?

Add this to Trayvon call, when Zimmerman apparently muttered a racial slur, and you have to ask if Zimmerman had a hang-up about young black men in the gated community.

Apparently muttered a racial slur? Yeah, this is credible.

How about the black kid in the neighborhood who said that there was a lot of crime there, and most of it was by blacks? Does he have issues with black people, too?

Your desperation is showing.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Well, those who behave suspiciously.

Well sure, when the definition of “behaving suspiciously” is walking while black with a hoodie on.

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM

You are the one who brought up my hair color, which is just ignorant. Still not relevant to the conversation I was having with someone else until you injected yourself into it. I have a right just like you do to come on here and say whatever I wish and you do not get to control that. I don’t even know what you mean when you say “you are not fooling anyone”.

You’re crazy. You were harping at the guy for his moniker. You were not having a conversation with the guy but harassing him. He answered your questions. There was nothing wrong with his moniker. You, not me, threw out the first insult.

Are you part of the trash that came in on the last open registration?

silvernana on March 24, 2012 at 12:01 PM

No, but clearly you are. And you are psycho, too.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Comment pages: 1 7 8 9 10 11 12