Geraldo: Blame the hoodie for Trayvon Martin shooting as much as the shooter; Update: Florida law explained

posted at 11:00 am on March 23, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

As a gun-rights advocate, I constantly have to remind people that guns are a tool, not an entity with motives, and that the responsibility for its use lies with the shooter. For some reason, we have an impulse after tragedies to try to blame objects rather than people, or more likely, to blame everyone else (“society”) for the personal choices of an individual. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen it taken to the extent that Geraldo Rivera does in this morning’s Fox and Friends segment on Trayvon Martin’s death:

“I have a different take, Brian, on that,” Rivera said. “I believe that George Zimmerman, the overzealous neighborhood watch captain should be investigated to the fullest extent of the law and if he is criminally liable, he should be prosecuted. But I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies. I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was.”

According to Rivera, the so-called hoodie has negative connotations attached to it, which may inspire ill-advised reflexive reactions.

“When you see a kid walking down the street, particularly a dark skinned kid like my son Cruz who I constantly yelled at when he was going out wearing a damn hoodie or those pants around his ankles,” Rivera said. “Take that hood off. People look at you and what’s the instant identification? What’s the instant association? Its crime scene surveillance tapes. Every time you see someone stick up a 7-Eleven, the kid is wearing a hoodie. Every time you see a mugging on a surveillance camera or get the old lady in the alcove, it’s the kid with a hoodie. You have to recognize that this whole stylizing yourself as a gangsta — you’re going to be a gangsta wannabe? Well, people are going to perceive you as a menace. That’s what happens. It is an instant reflexive action.”

I’ve had a number of e-mails asking me to analyze the issues in the Martin/Zimmerman shooting. I’ve struggled with it, but I can assure readers that hoodies never came up in my calculations. I do get what Rivera is saying; I had this conversation with my nephew when he was a teenager, explaining that clothes are a statement of values that get communicated instantly to the people around him, especially to those who don’t know him. That doesn’t mean that baggy pants or a hoodie makes you complicit in your own death when someone shoots you for no other reason, however, and it’s a blame-the-victim impulse to make that argument.

Otherwise, this is a tough case to explain, in part because I’m much more familiar with Minnesota law than Florida law on self-defense. Under Minnesota law, Zimmerman would have been charged with some form of homicide, probably manslaughter, if the circumstances are what we have seen in the media. Minnesota law requires that the actor using lethal force in self-defense has to first be in reasonable fear of his life or of grave bodily harm, the latter of which means losing a limb, an eye, or significant maiming and not just getting one’s ass kicked. That requires some demonstration of lethality or threat of maiming before the shooting, not just a threatening motion.

Second, and equally importantly, the actor in a lethal deployment of self-defense has to not have contributed to the conflict that required it. This is where the difference between state laws might be an issue. In Minnesota, even under the Castle Doctrine law that Governor Mark Dayton vetoed, chasing down someone to shoot them would have been a clear violation of self-defense statutes and would probably result in manslaughter charges. I’m not sure how Florida’s Stand Your Ground law is written, though; it might allow someone who got threatened to chase the person who did the threatening with the intent of using deadly force. If so, that’s incredibly stupid, but it might explain why Zimmerman couldn’t get charged in this case. Stand Your Ground laws in general are supposed to allow people to defend themselves without having to demonstrate that retreat was impossible — in other words, avoiding the need to defend one’s self from the second-guessing of a district attorney later on whether the shooter had the opportunity to run and hope the potential attacker didn’t shoot, stab, or chase anyway. They aren’t supposed to allow shooters in this situation to chase down the threat and shoot, but again, I don’t know how Florida wrote its law.

My late friend Joel Rosenberg, who was also my carry-permit instructor, taught one lesson above all else: a carry permit was not a Junior G-Man badge, especially not in Minnesota. That seems to be a lesson Zimmerman didn’t learn, and Florida may need to modify its carry and self-defense statutes to make that much more clear.

Joel literally wrote the book on carry licensing in Minnesota, The Carry Book: Minnesota Edition.  Unfortunately Joel passed away before he could complete an edition that looked at the issue nationally, but even if you’re not in Minnesota, there is a ton of good advice for those who want to pursue carry licenses and handle firearms.  My particular favorite chapter of the book is titled, “Cowardice 201: A PhD Seminar in Advanced Staying Out of Trouble,” in which Joel reveals that the true secret of karate is to run faster than everyone else.  Self-defense starts with keeping out of situations where you will likely find yourself threatened.  Joel’s book is a sobering read, literally and figuratively.

Update: I forgot to mention another point about self-defense law in Minnesota. Once the threat ends, self-defense actions have to stop as well at that moment. That means that an antagonist who stops threatening lethality can’t be attacked with lethal force in self-defense.

Update II: A reader who has a carry permit in Florida e-mails a detailed response, which clarifies Florida law and shows that it’s much the same as Minnesota’s. What follows are his lengthy comments; I’m blockquoting where he quotes:

I have a Florida concealed weapon license. You said:

Minnesota law requires that the actor using lethal force in self-defense has to first be in reasonable fear of his life or of grave bodily harm, the latter of which means losing a limb, an eye, or significant maiming and not just getting one’s ass kicked. That requires some demonstration of lethality or threat of maiming before the shooting, not just a threatening motion.

The same is true in Florida.

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.

That means that you can use force (BUT NOT DEADLY FORCE) to proportionally defend against imminent use of force. So if someone cocks their fist back to punch you, you can beat them to the punch. You can’t #$%&ing shoot them because they were about to punch you.

However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony

So if someone is about to kill or severely main you or someone else, you can respond with deadly force. Again, the response has to be proportional to the threat.  read 776.013, as it contains a bunch of stipulations about the use of deadly force.

Finally, 776.041:

 The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Note #2… initially provokes the use of force against himself. That might apply here.

There is no situation where a confrontation you initiated, in which you were never threatened with mortal danger, can be legally ended by you using lethal force. Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter or maybe even second degree murder under Florida law.

My late friend Joel Rosenberg, who was also my carry-permit instructor, taught one lesson above all else: a carry permit was not a Junior G-Man badge, especially not in Minnesota. That seems to be a lesson Zimmerman didn’t learn, and Florida may need to modify its carry and self-defense statutes to make that much more clear.

They do make it clear, and the brochure you get when getting a license spells it out explicitly (this is an offical State of Florida brochure). They contain case studies where lethal force is not justified. Like it talks about one case where someone chased a robber off of their property and shot them. They were charged. You can use a
gun to stop a forcible felony, not bring someone to justice after they’ve fled. There is a case where neighbors get into an argument and one neighbor swings a garden hose at the other, who replies by shooting him. Charged. You can’t use a gun if you’re not in mortal danger. The brochure clearly explains that a CWL does not make you a law enforcement officer. I got this hammered into me really hard in the course I took (which is mandated by the state).

Here’s one of the pamphlets:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/forms/P-00090-DeadlyForce-0911.pdf

[end update II]


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Uh yeah, that’s what we’re doing. How foolish of us to pretend lawful contact is not justification for violence.

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 2:42 PM

He’s just being a typical Monday morning quarterback. He wasn’t in the situation, but he knows exactly what Zimmerman should have done. IOW, he’s a judgmental jackass.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 3:45 PM

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 3:43 PM

So, your position is that Zimmerman should have allowed Martin to beat his head on cement until he died.

Really?

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 3:46 PM

http://www.hiphopstan.com/trayvon-martin-dad-retraces-steps-video/

Sort of interesting for showing the area which I had not seen before. Martin really was trespassing. If you are trespassing, do you really have the right to be offended by being approached or challenged??? Are you not acting suspicious by the very fact that you are trespassing? Of course.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 3:47 PM

You are correct that George Zimmerman should be imprisoned for murdering an unarmed 17 year-old after Zimmerman ignored police advice to stay in his truck. Zimmerman was advised as such precisely avoid the kind of misunderstanding and incident that occurred.

I did not hear Zimmerman verbally hail Martin from the truck during the 911 call, but as I keep noting, that would have been the best course of action.

I would have been VERY suspicious had I been in Trayvon Martin’s position, and it’s obvious that Martin was provoked into action by fear. Zimmerman was not a victim acting in self-defense because he provoked this incident instead of following common sense or police advice.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Sorry. You lack the legal standing and knowledge to be accusing Zimmerman of murder. What you state is obvious is only obvious to YOU, based on YOUR interpretation of the limited facts you possess.

You failed miserably to justify your conclusion here.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 3:48 PM

You could hear Trayvon Martin screaming for help in the background until George Zimmerman shot him. Trayvon Martin thought he was fighting for his life.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 3:28 PM

What is it with you libs…your knee jerk reaction to liberal hyped media is astounding…you libs soil yourselves at the drop of a hat….pathetic..

Now that the story facts start coming out we see the young black man in an entirely different light….HE IS THE AGGRESSOR WITH AN ATTITUDE !!

Does anyone remember the name Richard A. Jewell??.
The media did a hit-job on this guy too…

For liberal media this story is worth hyping-:

–white on black sensationalism
–poverty pimps can extort more favors from spineless politicians
–anti gun nuts love this story
–Obama cronies can use story to smother Obama failure stories

Libs hype lies…Libs ruin lives !!

BigSven on March 24, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Well, it has been fun.

I am going to make a run to my local gun shop. The race hustlers (Obama, Jesse, Al, Calypso Louie, The New Black Panther Party, libfree, Triple, Bringer, etc.) have convinced me that I may be wise to make some investments there.

I do not think that was their intention. LOL. However, they are libs: how often do a lib’s intentions match outcomes in the real world?

HeatSeeker2011 on March 24, 2012 at 3:33 PM

What?

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Geraldo actually said people shouldnmt wear hoodies because it makes them look like criminas, that if people wear thwm it is partly their fault for being stalked and gunned down, as this kid was. Geralso is a freak, & things like this is why no one listens to him – or SHOULD ever listen to him again! This is America, we can wear what we want without nutballs like Geraldo suggesting we are at fault for criminals like this gunman committing MURDER!

easyt65 on March 24, 2012 at 3:52 PM

What?

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 3:50 PM

You could hear Trayvon Martin screaming for help in the background until George Zimmerman shot him. Trayvon Martin thought he was fighting for his life.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 3:28 PM

What? This is libfreeordie quality stupidity here.

Did you take an advanced course in jumping to conclusions?

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 3:53 PM

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 3:45 PM

It’s worse then that. I think most people can agree Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police. But that is just common sense, not legal advice. Zimmerman committed no crime in approaching Martin. The irony here is that Bringer and others miss the fact that they are actually blaming Zimmerman for poor decision making like some might blame a rape victim. While it may be good advice and common sense to avoid situations that could lead to bad outcomes, we don’t blame victims for the criminal actions of others.

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 3:56 PM

I don’t think he should have stayed in his car. He say Martin slip around the gates. It is a gated community and Martin was tresspassing. He followed him so he wouldn’t lose sight of him.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 4:01 PM

The wit who saw Martin punching Zimmerman said it was Zimmerman calling for help, not Martin. The police played the 911 tape to Martin’s father who confirmed it was not his son’s voice. But you know otherwise….

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 3:37 PM

I saw Trayvon Martin’s parents in an interview with Anderson Cooper, and his mother specifically said she recognized the voice on the 911 call as her son’s.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

The White House staff must be ecstatic over this, as it gives Dr. Utopia an opportunity to swoop down with the full force of the federal government and score some race points over the long hot summer of an election year. If the first jury acquits, he can show up in person and tour the riot areas, blessing the downtrodden and, in a voice choked with tears and justifiable rage, demanding justice for the innocent lad.

Verily, He is come to unite us. Even better than Yes We Can.

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

I saw Trayvon Martin’s parents in an interview with Anderson Cooper, and his mother specifically said she recognized the voice on the 911 call as her son’s.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Well, that’s it. Case closed.

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 4:18 PM

I saw Trayvon Martin’s parents in an interview with Anderson Cooper, and his mother specifically said she recognized the voice on the 911 call as her son’s.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

And that is why she is not a credible witness.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 4:19 PM

It is a gated community and Martin was tresspassing. He followed him so he wouldn’t lose sight of him.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 4:01 PM

?
You do realize that the kid was visiting his Dad who lived in the gated community, right?

westernflyer on March 24, 2012 at 4:21 PM

Do a Google Image Search using his name. You’ll find of course the UNDATED photo the Democrat Media keeps running, you know, the one that looks like it was taken when he was 11 or 12.

You’ll also find another one, one which the Democrat Media are ignoring.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Yep, the picture I saw is indeed on Google images. It says it’s from his Facebook page and that would be pretty authoritative. I wonder what the reaction would be if they showed that photo instead of the football one. I suspect the reaction would be quite different.

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 4:28 PM

It’s worse then that. I think most people can agree Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police. But that is just common sense, not legal advice. Zimmerman committed no crime in approaching Martin. The irony here is that Bringer and others miss the fact that they are actually blaming Zimmerman for poor decision making like some might blame a rape victim. While it may be good advice and common sense to avoid situations that could lead to bad outcomes, we don’t blame victims for the criminal actions of others.

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Are you sure most people can agree that Zimmerman should have stayed in the vehicle and waited for the police? Doesn’t seem to be the case here on HotAir.

I, for one, have not said that Zimmerman committed a crime by approaching Martin.

Blaming Zimmerman for poor decision-making is not the same as blaming a rape victim who, for example, dresses provocatively and subsequently gets raped. Rape victims don’t usually follow would-be rapists around. Trayvon Martin wasn’t looking for a fight that night and had no idea why Zimmerman was following him. Trayvon Martin might have suspected Zimmerman of being a rapist, for all we know.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 4:30 PM

If this thing comes to violence, people like Ed Schulz and Rachel Maddow should be charged with first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder and sentenced to death.

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 4:32 PM

I saw Trayvon Martin’s parents in an interview with Anderson Cooper, and his mother specifically said she recognized the voice on the 911 call as her son’s.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

A witness we haven’t heard from before paints a much different picture than we’ve seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn’t have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man’s testimony could be key for the police.

“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as “John,” and didn’t not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman’s claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

“When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Now, what were you saying?

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 4:34 PM

I saw Trayvon Martin’s parents in an interview with Anderson Cooper, and his mother specifically said she recognized the voice on the 911 call as her son’s.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Hey, I watched Anderson Cooper one night too.

He showed videos he had received from America’s enemies in Iraq. Videos showing the view the snipers had of their American targets just before they pulled the triggers.

How come Trayvon Martin’s parents have only appeared on TV on Left-Leaning Networks?

I think we all know the answer, but you cretins on the Left are too afraid to admit it.

F-

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 4:34 PM

Are you sure most people can agree that Zimmerman should have stayed in the vehicle and waited for the police? Doesn’t seem to be the case here on HotAir.

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 4:30 PM

You see what you want to see. The only person I have seen say Zimmerman should have left his vehicle was Blake. Everyone has been saying leaving his vehicle is not a crime or an excuse for violence to be used against him.

I, for one, have not said that Zimmerman committed a crime by approaching Martin.

Yes you did.

Blaming Zimmerman for poor decision-making is not the same as blaming a rape victim who, for example, dresses provocatively and subsequently gets raped. Rape victims don’t usually follow would-be rapists around. Trayvon Martin wasn’t looking for a fight that night and had no idea why Zimmerman was following him. Trayvon Martin might have suspected Zimmerman of being a rapist, for all we know.

Round and round we go. At what point is Martin justified in using violence?

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Aw, how sweet–some community organizers fighting racism have put a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman’s head.

No justice, no peace, no kidding.

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 4:46 PM

The media putting a grieving parent on television is Journalism 101. They’ve done it as long as I can remember and it always follows the same path: said parent says through tears that they just “know in their hearts” that (fill in the blank) killed their baby.

The follow up question should be: How do you know?

Well, they don’t. They FEEL that so and so is guilty and somehow their tears and the fact that they’re the parent of the victim gives their claim absolute authority. It doesn’t, not by a long shot. If anything, their relationship to the victim and the closeness to the tragedy should result in discarding any claims they make based on emotions.

That’s not how the media rolls, though. Those tears bring in the ratings and makes for engaging television. Who cares if someone goes to prison for something they didn’t do? Look how many viewers they got that night!

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 4:48 PM

The bringers and libfreeordies are what we are dealing with here. They will not see things objectively no matter what happens. This is from a thread on FoxNation’s facebook page:

“NRA has blood of this and many innocent children on their hands!”

There is no way to reason with people who are mired this deep in the liberal ideological sewer.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 4:53 PM

?
You do realize that the kid was visiting his Dad who lived in the gated community, right?

westernflyer on March 24, 2012 at 4:21 PM

I went back and checked. His father did not live there. His father’s gf may have lived there. Again, this is one fact I would expect the msm reports to be clear on but of course they can’t get anything straight. If I have time later, I will try to use google maps for an over view of the area and use his father’s description of where he was walking to.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM

Forgive me for linking to Sharpton! The voice sounded familiar but he has lost so much weight and doesn’t look quite as oily as I remembered him, I didn’t know it was him. Mea culpa.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 5:10 PM

Now, what were you saying?

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 4:34 PM

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Rf4G0JOOk&feature=related

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 5:17 PM

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 5:17 PM

The reporter refers to Zimmerman as “a neighborhood vigilante.”

LMAO!

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 5:30 PM

The reporter refers to Zimmerman as “a neighborhood vigilante.”

LMAO!

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 5:30 PM

The blond woman they interview as an ‘eyewitness’ didn’t see anything.

WTF is going on down there?

tom daschle concerned on March 24, 2012 at 5:31 PM

WTF is going on down there?

tom daschle concerned on March 24, 2012 at 5:31 PM

Narrative building.

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Aw, how sweet–some community organizers fighting racism have put a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman’s head.

No justice, no peace, no kidding.

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Shows you what apoplectic mental midgets we’re dealing with here. 10 g’s? For real, bros? Gonna need a whole lot more mula than that for a First Degree Murder defense. And that’s just one charge. Seriously, gonna have to pony up more than that, cheapskates.

RepubChica on March 24, 2012 at 5:51 PM

It is not different. How can you read someones mind?
How do you know the woman wearing a miniskirt doesn’t want to get raped?
There is no way you can read someones mind, you are a painting with a broad brush.
liberal4life on March 23, 2012 at 11:26 AM
The watchman is a racist who allegedly referred to the black boy as a c00n. I personally believed he enjoyed killing the unarmed black man.
liberal4life on March 23, 2012 at 11:16 AM
Can’t even go 15 minutes without a hypocritical/contradictory statement.
bloghooligan on March 23, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Best pawnage ever.
What a f$%^ing tool

Every right is technically granted by the government. I hope you can understand that.
nonpartisan on March 23, 2012 at 11:50 AM

You are insane. The people LET the government exist.
If they let the government take their rights, then they deserve what they get.
The Constitution exists for a reason.
And is a special document all over the world for a reason.
And that is the rights are given by God & are inalienable.
So it doesn’t matter if the government or a bunch of people want to take your rights away or limit them bcs those rights do not exists at the pleasure of said government or people.

WTF has this country come to that there are so many idiots like this breathing here?

Badger40 on March 24, 2012 at 5:52 PM

I went back and checked. His father did not live there. His father’s gf may have lived there.
Blake on March 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM

The point is that the kid was a guest of someone who lived in the community, not “trespassing”.

westernflyer on March 24, 2012 at 5:52 PM

This whole thing reminds me of what happened in LAramie WY to Mathew Shepard.
I lived there at that time.
I know of the perpetrator.
My good friend worked with him.
Living there, we all knew the attack was not motivated by Matt’s homosexuality.
Yet that’s what the national media swooped in & did to the incident.
I plainly remember MAtt’s dad coming on TV & pleading with the media & people to stop making this a gay thing.
It wasn’t a gay thing.
And yet, that’s what it’s remember as to this day.

This is all ridiculous & I won’t make any judgements either way bcs I DON’T KNOW.
And neither do any of you here.

Badger40 on March 24, 2012 at 5:59 PM

If Zimmerman is eventually charged, how could he possibly ever get a fair hearing after the president’s remarks? Could those remarks lead to an automatic mistrial and/or dismissal of charges?

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 5:59 PM

WTF is going on down there?

tom daschle concerned on March 24, 2012 at 5:31 PM

Narrative building.

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 5:39 PM

The actual incident happened on February 26. It’s now a month later. They needed the first 3 weeks after it happened to coordinate the Propaganda.

Dr. Goebbels would be proud of them, and so would Chairman Mao.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:02 PM

The point is that the kid was a guest of someone who lived in the community, not “trespassing”.

westernflyer on March 24, 2012 at 5:52 PM

No, this is the point: What is “someone’s” name and address? At least I’m trying to verify it. After non stop misinformation by the msm, I’m not as gullible trusting as you.

Blake on March 24, 2012 at 6:03 PM

UpDate!

On top of taking away Zimmerman’s weapons permit, the local police Chief has been taken off the case, the local prosecutor is under fire for putting “too many” blacks in jail and of course, the President has made his disgusting comments.

EMBOLDENED BY THE PRESIDENT blacks have erased the law. The NOI (Nation of Islam) and the Black Panthers have issued a “fatwa” for Zimmerman, by posting this “Wanted- Dead or Alive” poster and backing it up with an offer of $10,000.

Yes, that is not a misprint, a political party and a “church” have posted a reward for the kidnapping or murder of a private citizen who is innocent of any crime, to be killed by any and all members of the black race, or brought forward to a private “tribunal” for “Justice”.

This has reached the point where there is no law, that self defense against black thugs is not a crime, but you can face retribution from the “black Community” if you defend yourself. Remember the President has the power of Presidential Pardon. Who doubts on his last day he would not absolve the killer of Zimmerman” Who doubts that Holder would refuse to prosecute Zimmerman to be one with “his People”?

Bulletchaser on March 24, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Scott Johnson at Power Line has a new piece about this up. Excerpts:

We seem to be in the “sentence first, verdict afterwards” phase of the Trayvon Martin affair. Speaking outside of his New York City headquarters, Al Sharpton said that it is important to show “sustained indignation” over Martin’s death. Has that cretin ever beat the drums for a cause that had truth or justice on its side? If so, I don’t remember it, but I suppose there’s always a first time. Jay Nordlinger’s NR profile of Sharpton provides reminders of his track record.)

Sharpton spoke at a protest rally in Martin’s hometown of Sanford, Florida on Thursday night. Sharpton has been stoking the outrage big time on his MSNBC television show. At the protest, Sharpton declared with Martin’s parents at his side: “Trayvon could have been any one of our sons. Trayvon could have been any one of us.”

Where Sharpton treads Jesse Jackson can’t be far behind. Jackson says he will speak at a Sanford-area church Sunday and then attend a rally in the city Monday.

Our president has shown his characteristic leadership (from behind) by a thinly veiled declaration of racial solidarity echoing Sharpton’s — a nice touch. What a crew.

Scott then concludes by reminding us of another Florida interracial crime that the Democrat Media in the US is covering up, solely because it doesn’t fit their Racist agenda:

Coincidentally, the ongoing trial of Shawn Tyson for the cold-blooded murder of two British tourists in Sarasota provides plenty of ground for outrage and “soul-searching,” but you probably haven’t heard much about it. The UK’s Daily Mail carried an excellent account earlier this week.

Here’s the link to the UK Daily Mail story. Would one of our Righteous Leftists here care to comment on this crime? Of course not!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2118785/Shawn-Tyson-said-murdered-James-Cooper-James-Kouzaris-Sarasota-Florida.html

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Here’s the link to the UK Daily Mail story. Would one of our Righteous Leftists here care to comment on this crime? Of course not!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2118785/Shawn-Tyson-said-murdered-James-Cooper-James-Kouzaris-Sarasota-Florida.html

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Unbelievable. Just astoundingly unbelievable.

tom daschle concerned on March 24, 2012 at 6:21 PM

The actual incident happened on February 26. It’s now a month later. They needed the first 3 weeks after it happened to coordinate the Propaganda.

Dr. Goebbels would be proud of them, and so would Chairman Mao.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:02 PM

I didn’t know that.
If that’s true, then this whole outrage meme is effing fake.

Badger40 on March 24, 2012 at 6:22 PM

Unbelievable. Just astoundingly unbelievable.

tom daschle concerned on March 24, 2012 at 6:21 PM

It’s not unbelievable at all. In fact, it’s been going on for years. The Wichita killings, the killings of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom, and the recent attack on an elderly couple in Oklahoma that resulted in the death of the woman and the serious injury of her husband.

This stuff happens all the time and you won’t hear a thing about it in the national media. The locals have to cover it because everyone in the area knows about it through the grapevine. The story never makes the leap to the MSM, though. I wonder why?

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 6:26 PM

James-Cooper-James-Kouzaris-Sarasota-Florida.html

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:16 PM

It’s so amazing that Obama doesn’t care about this attack on 2 men from a country that is our ally.

Badger40 on March 24, 2012 at 6:28 PM

The point is that the kid was a guest of someone who lived in the community, not “trespassing”.

westernflyer on March 24, 2012 at 5:52 PM

If that’s the case, then fine, he wasn’t trespassing, but there was attempt to make a point, earlier in the thread, that Zimmerman should have recognized the kid, as having been there many times. With no basis in fact, only assumption.

Of course, there are many other points made by the race-baiters about what Zimmerman should and should not have done, but nothing that Trayvon should or should not have done. He’s completely innocent and couldn’t possibly have done anything that might have contributed to his own death. He was defending himself, no matter what.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 6:28 PM

If Zimmerman is eventually charged, how could he possibly ever get a fair hearing after the president’s remarks? Could those remarks lead to an automatic mistrial and/or dismissal of charges?

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 5:59 PM

That’s the problem. Now that the president has weighed in on this, there is pressure on the authorities to charge this man, whether there is reason to or not, and if he’s not convicted, we all know there are going to be race riots. Some justice that will be, won’t it?

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:02 PM

I didn’t know that.

If that’s true, then this whole outrage meme is effing fake.

Badger40 on March 24, 2012 at 6:22 PM

The fact you didn’t know this happened a month ago is exactly what the Democrats and their Media wanted to happen.

Here are the very first words in the wiki entry about the case:

Trayvon Benjamin Martin (February 5, 1995 – February 26, 2012)

Another Inconvenient Truth the Democrat Media has tried to keep quiet is that Trayvon Martin’s body was on a slab for 3 days in the morgue before anyone-including his parents-asked about him.

Then, his parents excused their own apparent disinterest in where their son had disappeared to for 3 days by blaming it on the Racist Police.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:31 PM

This

The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 5:17 PM

“That” is not an eyewitness testimony. And what she said, “that little boy” proved she knows nothing, because that “little boy” was a 6 foot 3 inch man.

There is the actual eye witness, who SAW what happened, and this blonde woman who HEARD something that SHE interpreted in her own mind. Then she said that Zimmerman said, “call the police”, which is absurd because he was on the phone with 911 through the whole incident.

Makes her a liar in my book.

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 6:33 PM

Then, his parents excused their own apparent disinterest in where their son had disappeared to for 3 days by blaming it on the Racist Police.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:31 PM

Martin was screwed the day he was born. Who doesn’t inquire about their son’s whereabouts for 3 days?

It is likely he would have been doing some serious time or ended up dead at a young age even if this incident never occurred. And the racist thugs using this incident for political advantage will never address that fact, or the fact that so many young black men are being screwed over by a broken system perpetuated by these racist thugs celebrating over his dead body.

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 6:37 PM

NEW WITNESS!!

Zimmerman was Attacked:

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Witness better get in Witness protection program for fear of Sharpton, Jackson and Lib4life.

Bulletchaser on March 24, 2012 at 6:43 PM

Just curious–what has Mitt Romney said about this case? Or is he maintaining a discreet silence?

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Then, his parents excused their own apparent disinterest in where their son had disappeared to for 3 days by blaming it on the Racist Police.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:31 PM

Martin was screwed the day he was born. Who doesn’t inquire about their son’s whereabouts for 3 days?

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 6:37 PM

OK, I got some more info. Martin’s father did call the Police the day after he disappeared. But why didn’t he call them the night it happened?

Martin left his father’s fiance’s house (in the gated community) during a break in an NBA game to walk to the nearby 7-11 to buy some candy. He then disappeared.

The fact that Martin’s father waited until the next day to call the cops would seem to indicate that he wasn’t all that concerned about his son staying out all night-perhaps because he had done it in the past? Not saying that as Fact, just raising the possibility.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Just curious–what has Mitt Romney said about this case? Or is he maintaining a discreet silence?

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Romney on March 23 (Friday)

What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.

The shooting of Trayvon is a terrible tragedy unnecessary uncalled for and inexplicable at this point. What we’ve heard from the media reports suggest that it’s entirely appropriate for the district attorney to be looking into this and to have called a grand jury and find what the facts are. We hope that justice is done in this case as in all cases. But very tragic and our hearts go out to his family his loved ones his friends this shouldn’t have happened.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Just curious–what has Mitt Romney said about this case? Or is he maintaining a discreet silence?

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 6:47 PM

foxnews link

Shortly after President Obama spoke out for the first time on the killing of 17 year-old Trayvon Martin, former Massachusetts Governor and Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney followed suit, issuing a statement, through a spokesperson, which read “What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

Romney went on to say ‘The shooting of Trayvon is a terrible tragedy unnecessary uncalled for and inexplicable at this point. What we’ve heard from the media reports suggest that it’s entirely appropriate for the district attorney to be looking into this and to have called a grand jury and find what the facts are. We hope that justice is done in this case as in all cases. But very tragic and our hearts go out to his family his loved ones his friends this shouldn’t have happened.’

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 6:58 PM

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Beat me by one minute.

High five!

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 6:59 PM

I saw Trayvon Martin’s parents in an interview with Anderson Cooper, and his mother specifically said she recognized the voice on the 911 call as her son’s.
The Bringer on March 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Since there aren’t any millions possessed by Zimmerman, who should be patted on the back, how long do you think it will be before the town, city, police, etc are sued for millions in a wrongful death suit?

I give it a week, after all, we gotz ta git payed

Sonosam on March 24, 2012 at 7:00 PM

The fact that Martin’s father waited until the next day to call the cops would seem to indicate that he wasn’t all that concerned about his son staying out all night-perhaps because he had done it in the past? Not saying that as Fact, just raising the possibility.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Intriguing. Why wouldn’t someone make the connection to where Trayvon disappeared and the fact that they had a homicide of someone matching his description in the same area? It took them two days to do that?

Or maybe his father didn’t know where he was when he disappeared? Or it isn’t his father that lives in the community but the girlfriend and Mr. Martin wasn’t sure his son was anywhere around the neighborhood? I’m glad someone is going to be unknotting the tangles in this case.

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Thanks, DD.

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 7:07 PM

BTW here are the links to the two most recent Power Line stories about this case.

Hinderaker’s piece from Friday 3/23

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/03/thoughts-on-trayvon-martin-and-george-zimmerman.php

And Scott’s piece from this afternoon:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/03/shades-of-sharpton.php

Please be sure to read the Responses; there is a Democrat Tool babbling insanely there named “Caley” who perfectly illustrates what nearly 75 years of Democrat Public Schools have finally succeeded in producing, namely the Perfect Useful Idiot.

In fact if she were married she would be a Stepford Useful Idiot.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Or maybe his father didn’t know where he was when he disappeared? Or it isn’t his father that lives in the community but the girlfriend and Mr. Martin wasn’t sure his son was anywhere around the neighborhood? I’m glad someone is going to be unknotting the tangles in this case.

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:06 PM

His father’s girlfriend is the one who lives in the gated community. He and his father were visiting her the night it happened. As I said he left the girlfriend’s house during a NBA game timeout. That would be the only NBA game on TV that day, the NBA All Star Game.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 7:13 PM

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM

I know you’re a Mitt fan and I’m definitely not, but you do great work here linking to various stories and the comments contained within that benefit everybody. Thanks.

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:16 PM

Question for the Zimmerman defenders. CNN is hosting a halfway decent hour on Trayvon Martin and one of the guests raised an interesting question. The argument is that Trayvon Martin injured George Zimmerman to the point where he was bleeding from his head and that his nose was broken, which is a very bloody injury, correct? If that is true, then why didn’t the police call an ambulance for Zimmerman? Isn’t it police procedure for an injured individual to be treated and cleared to go home by a medical professional. Especially for those saying that Zimmerman had his head bashed on the ground. He’s a concussion risk and, therefore, a lawsuit risk. You’re telling me the police decided that there were enough injuries on Zimmerman that it was obvious he was fighting for his life, but not enough injuries to call an ambulance?

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:18 PM

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Hey everyone! Look who’s back!

Why is no one clapping?

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:21 PM

I think libfreeordie is on the Al Sharpton legal team, floating trial balloons here, running through his legal briefs, etc.

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 7:26 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DOrOPdNz3U

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:31 PM

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:31 PM

So where does the Latino George Zimmerman fit into that scenario?

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Identify your links, lib. What aspect of Critical Race Theory is being preached on this YouTube video?

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 7:37 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DOrOPdNz3U

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:31 PM

You area f*#&ing moron. I can’t believe you are propagating such garbage.

I hope you and your family suffer immeasurably on the democrat plantation. I just don’t have patience for your level of disingenuous. What a horrible human being.

tom daschle concerned on March 24, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Identify your links, lib. What aspect of Critical Race Theory is being preached on this YouTube video?

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Notice how the text describing the video says White males and police officers think blacks are criminals. Not Latinos, not Asians, not anyone else…just WHITE MALES AND COPS AND STUFF!

WHITE MALES! WHITE MALES! WHITE MALES! THE SOURCE OF ALL EVIL IN THE WORLD!

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:41 PM

So where does the Latino George Zimmerman fit into that scenario?

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Latino George Zimmerman is a part of the same culture that stigmatizes black men as white people are. There are even black people who would record similar responses. Have you not heard of Larry Elder?

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:41 PM

But President Obama had a white mother, so he can unite us. At last. At long last.

spiritof61 on March 24, 2012 at 7:49 PM

Please be sure to read the Responses; there is a Democrat Tool babbling insanely there named “Caley” who perfectly illustrates what nearly 75 years of Democrat Public Schools have finally succeeded in producing, namely the Perfect Useful Idiot.

In fact if she were married she would be a Stepford Useful Idiot.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM

She’s a winner, all right.

JannyMae on March 24, 2012 at 8:05 PM

Latino George Zimmerman is a part of the same culture that stigmatizes black men as white people are. There are even black people who would record similar responses. Have you not heard of Larry Elder?

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Sounds like you’ve got your work cut out for you. There’s you and your ilk, not that great in numbers, and…everyone else. Sucks to be you. But you gone on with your genocidal natterings. You’re making tons of special friends!

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 8:15 PM

In case anyone is afraid to click on the link, it’s a news report of a witness that saw Mr. Martin beating up Mr. Zimmerman. He yelled to him to stop and that he was calling 9-1-1, then Mr. Martin was dead. I still don’t know why Mr. Zimmerman was following Mr. Martin but then I don’t know why the media keeps showing pictures of him when he was in his early teens. He is 6ft 2in. and plays football.

Cindy Munford on March 24, 2012 at 8:20 PM

I think libfreeordie is actually Jonatha Carr. Here’s how Jonatha reacted to Trayvon Martin’s death:

Sounds like libfreeordie to me. Sad.

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 8:24 PM

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:18 PM

“Damn it! Nothing is working! Quick, we need some conspiracy theories!”

NotCoach on March 24, 2012 at 8:43 PM

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM

I know you’re a Mitt fan and I’m definitely not, but you do great work here linking to various stories and the comments contained within that benefit everybody. Thanks.

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 7:16 PM

No, I am not in the tank for Mitt, but am irritated when I see folks post outright Lies about his record as MA Governor. Most of them do so as a result of getting bad info on the interwebs.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Question for the Zimmerman defenders. CNN

libfreeordie on March 24, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Next Question, please.

Del Dolemonte on March 24, 2012 at 9:33 PM

“He is 6ft 2in. and plays football.

Cindy Munford on March 24, 2012 at 8:20 PM”

Once again he is 6ft 3 and 140lbs against someone 250lbs armed with a weapon. The kids a bean pole. Playing football doesn’t make you a good fighter, conditioned maybe but that’s it.

The media is full of scumbags and rather than show the truth, they want to pump this story with hopes of a race riot. The race hustlers and poverty pimps are in full swing. That doesn’t mean that Zimmerman should not face a jury for what he did. Let the jury decide, that is if the police officers in the matter didn’t bungle the case.

Africanus on March 24, 2012 at 9:35 PM

Be honest. If you were alone on the street with just one individual, who would you feel (or be) the safest with statistically.

1 A Japanese businessman
2 An Orthodox Jew wearing a skull cap.
3 A female of any race or nationality.
4 An elderly man of any race or nationality.
5 A young black male covering his face with a hood.
6 It doesn’t make any difference, the risks 1-5 are all the same.

The politically correct answer is number 6. But if you really believe that you may no live very long!!!

MaiDee on March 24, 2012 at 9:40 PM

But you gone on with your genocidal natterings. You’re making tons of special friends!

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 8:15 PM

libfreeordie = Dr. Kamau Kambon?

Perhaps a follower of Khalid Muhammad?

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Hey Lib! Check this out:

http://youtu.be/IhlW6gQx57s

Larry Elder on Racism.

Check out the statistics, it will make you choke.

Bulletchaser on March 24, 2012 at 9:48 PM

“The politically correct answer is number 6. But if you really believe that you may no live very long!!!

MaiDee on March 24, 2012 at 9:40 PM”

Really, that’s good to know, just shoot first especially if that black male is packing skittles and ice tea. Assume he is a gangsta hood rat, call the police and then pop a cap in him even if he was just minding his own business! After all he could be high on drugs or up to no good.

Granted you could wait for the police, but why wait, you might not live very long if you do!

Africanus on March 24, 2012 at 9:58 PM

Granted you could wait for the police, but why wait, you might not live very long if you do!

Africanus on March 24, 2012 at 9:58 PM

When a 6’3″ man has you on your back and is beating you to death, waiting for the police might not seem like such a great option.

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 10:09 PM

“When a 6’3″ man has you on your back and is beating you to death, waiting for the police might not seem like such a great option.

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 10:09 PM”

You mean the 6’3 140 young man that I called the police on. Yeah see I would have waited in my SUV with my GUN since as neighborhood watch motto is observe an report. Being that I witnessed no crime being committed an all! Makes sense, yah?

Africanus on March 24, 2012 at 10:17 PM

Makes sense, yah?

Africanus on March 24, 2012 at 10:17 PM

Jumping on a man who was walking away from you, then proceeding to try to beat him to death – that makes more sense?

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 10:22 PM

Africanus on March 24, 2012 at 10:17 PM

That is definitely the sticking point of the story. I still have a problem with the way the media is running the story. This is a single incident and not a daily happening.

Cindy Munford on March 24, 2012 at 10:22 PM

The hoodie made him look too black

Opinionnation on March 24, 2012 at 11:05 PM

libfreeordie = Dr. Kamau Kambon?

Perhaps a follower of Khalid Muhammad?

Rebar on March 24, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Either one probably works for him. These fools actually think White people are going away. They’re not.

Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 11:23 PM

The media is full of scumbags and rather than show the truth, they want to pump this story with hopes of a race riot. The race hustlers and poverty pimps are in full swing. That doesn’t mean that Zimmerman should not face a jury for what he did. Let the jury decide, that is if the police officers in the matter didn’t bungle the case.

Africanus on March 24, 2012 at 9:35 PM

What’s the charge?

JannyMae on March 25, 2012 at 1:50 AM

Media Bias.

Rebar on March 25, 2012 at 3:07 AM

There has been a lot of back and forth here, but from the beginning I felt the media driven facts didn’t add up. There had to be more…

There was.

First, as some of you know, I spent a career in police work in Florida. I am very familiar with the “stand your ground” law. It is a good law and was the result of a needed update. In reality, the old law forced the SAO to try to indict people who used deadly force to protect themselves and their property. No grand jury would indict them- period. It go so bad it was a joke, so they updated the law to fit the current societal norms. Good thing.

Second, “stand your ground” does not apply here. The Left will be trying to pivot from the shooting to repealing the law, which they hate. Remember, they don’t want you armed. It gets in the way when they come to seize your life.

Third, as to the shooting. Something felt wrong. Zimmerman did what he was supposed to do as a citizen (BTW- dispatchers aren’t experts in anything and often give bad advice). He saw, he called, he waited, so how did he end up shooting a young man Obama wished he had.

Seems it was in self defense. There is a witness to the shooting who saw “the victim” beating the hell out of Zimmerman, which is constant with the injuries that Zimmerman had when the police arrived. Which brings me to the big question- What happened.

In my post at my site I go into detail. There were questions not asked that some of you have pointed out, like was Martin going home? Did his finance’ live in the gated community? (Seriously, finance’? Man, they do try to “clean” the politically correct victims don’t they! I address that in the post also.)

Size matters and in one link I read that Martin was 6-3 and a football player who was suspended. I ask in the post if Martin had a history of anger. Or did he react as many young blacks react when they think they have been offended. I’ve seen literally thousands of black in my career start trouble because “You can’t treat me like that” is their attitude. I’m willing to bet now Martin confronted Zimmerman because of being followed and instead of talking to him and explaining, he jumped him.

If Martin was in fact detouring into a gated community, then the question is why, a short cut? or maybe a little car hopping for loose change on the way back to the house? Skittles aren’t free.

Sadly, Zimmerman may end up to be Obama’s “Stacey Koons”. I was waiting for it. When Obama got elected my partner and I looked at each other and went “Oh, no, that’s not good.” A man who thinks he needs to get even with America, who appoints an AG that KNOWS he needs to get even with America is going to look for that special case where he can proclaim his legitimacy with the blacks in America. “See I got one for you!” It was one of the motivating factors for our retirement. The trouble with having someone looking for an offense, someone with the power to shape and often create that offense, is they will seek a very low bar. Ethics won’t matter- they are lawyers. Right won’t matter- They are Leftists. And forget honor, the virtue was stabbed to death a long time ago by the Left and the mantra “the ends justify the means.”

Zimmerman, who may be innocent, will probably be indicted. Already the specter of Rodney King and the riots are looming. What did Louie say? “No justice no peace”?

http://truthandcommonsense.com/2012/03/24/jumping-into-the-zimmerman-shooting-things-are-a-little-hinky-regardless-of-what-jackson-thinks/

http://truthandcommonsense.com/2012/03/24/jumping-into-the-zimmerman-shooting-things-are-a-little-hinky-regardless-of-what-jackson-thinks/

archer52 on March 25, 2012 at 4:30 AM

While liberals call it a race crime before the investigation has even started the truth slowly comes out!!!

Dollayo on March 25, 2012 at 4:35 AM

Either one probably works for him. These fools actually think White people are going away. They’re not.
Dack Thrombosis on March 24, 2012 at 11:23 PM

With birth rates the way they are and our countries not only being filled from outside messes along with wealth redistribution I wouldn’t be too sure about that

Sonosam on March 25, 2012 at 11:10 AM

The race-baiters (Jesse, Al, Calypso Louie, The New Black Panther Party, and Obama, plus people on this board like libfree, Triple, and Bringer) convinced me that they want violence. Even if they did not directly advocate violence, it became obvious that they would be happy to see it happen. And, since our Attorney General has made it clear that the Department of “Justice” will not prosecute black-on-white crime, it seems like “Every person for him or her self.”

So, yesterday afternoon I went to my local gun shop.

The place was jammed. It took about an hour for a clerk to get free. He said that they were busy “because of this thing in Florida.” There were quite a few women in the shop, and quite a few young people. I.e., the crowd was definitely not redneck. Quite the opposite. The clerk said that the attitude of purchasers was not fear: it was anger. The anger was not directed at Zimmerman: it was directed at the race-baiters.

I ended up purchasing an H&K 9mm USP Compact. I already have an H&K .45 ACP USP full-size, but it is just too big to holster effectively. I have a concealed carry permit; the 9mm is small enough I will actually exercise my carry rights. In the past, although I had the permit, I didn’t carry.

Thanks to the race-baiters, I am carrying now. It looks like a lot of other people will be doing the same.

HeatSeeker2011 on March 25, 2012 at 11:12 AM

I recommend the titanium snubbie 38 hammerless

It’s all about the first punch and the 38 is a jab that trumps larger calibre haymakers

You can carry it in your pocket and shoot right through the jacket surprising the eff out of would be miscreant

Element of surprise trumps all

Sonosam on March 25, 2012 at 11:22 AM

From one of the commenters at Volokh:

B

I have spent the last few hours mapping out the times and events that happened that day using Google Maps. Looking at the record and the times that things were alleged to have happened, there is no way that the media portrayal of this incident is correct.

I suggest you do as I did and mark off where and when each event took place and then think about the timing of the calls. All of this info is widely available.

Here are some interesting facts:
- Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman and was lost to Zimmerman’s view for 5 whole minutes. Trayvon’s father’s condo was only 100 yards away, why didn’t he go and stay there?
- Trayvon’s girlfriend talked to him for 4 minutes AFTER Zimmerman had already lost sight of Trayvon.
- How did the heavyset Zimmerman ever catch up to the athletic Trayvon? Especially since Trayvon had a 5 minute head start (Zimmerman lost Trayvon for 5 minutes)
- What does Trayvon’s stepbrother say about that night? He was at the condo and the two kids were supposed to watch the All Star game together. Did he hear the gun shot?
- If Trayvon ran from Zimmerman for 5 minutes, how did he not cover the 100 yards to his house, and how did he end up only about 30 yards from where he ran past Zimmerman in the first place?

I personally think Trayvon ran away and then came back. I cannot otherwise explain the fact that he did not run straight home, 100 yards away.

http://volokh.com/2012/03/24/can-the-police-arrest-someone-for-homicide-when-its-clear-he-killed-but-likely-in-self-defense/

Blake on March 25, 2012 at 12:32 PM

Every right is technically granted by the government. I hope you can understand that.

nonpartisan on March 23, 2012 at 11:50 AM

No government creates rights. The U.S. Constitution guarantees certain rights, but it neither creates nor originates them. Anything granted by a government is a privilege. This was a nation founded, not on privilege, but on liberty. Liberty is not given by government, it can only be proclaimed and protected by government, or not.

Explains your nick. Independent = ignorant

Freelancer on March 25, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Every right is technically granted by the government. I hope you can understand that.

nonpartisan on March 23, 2012 at 11:50 AM

That must be why the Declaration of Independence states that “We are endowed by our government with rights, any or all of which it may grant or revoke at will in its sole and absolute discretion.”

Oh, wait…it doesn’t say that. It says, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government….”

Your ignorance is breathtaking. It is frightening that you probably have the right to vote.

HeatSeeker2011 on March 25, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Blake on March 25, 2012 at 12:32 PM

Both Zimmerman’s statement and the eye witness say, that Zimmerman was walking back to his car just before he was jumped/attacked by Martin.

Walking back to his car is an affirmative deescalation of the situation – clearly Martin was in no danger from Zimmerman, who was retreating back to his vehicle.

Rebar on March 25, 2012 at 1:27 PM

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