The return of “fake but accurate”
posted at 9:50 am on March 22, 2012 by Ed Morrissey
In 2004, bloggers exposed the memos at the heart of CBS’ story about George W. Bush avoiding military service as forgeries, forcing the termination of producer Mary Mapes and the disgrace of 60 Minutes II and Dan Rather. Defenders of CBS claimed that while the memos themselves were fakes, the story was nonetheless still true, a laughingstock of an argument that came to be known as “fake but accurate,” and sometimes as “truthiness.” This impulse to dismiss fakery in the service of larger truths makes a reappearance in the Washington Post, as Joshua Topolsky attempts to defend hoaxer Mike Daisey, exposed earlier this month by NPR for lying about his experiences in China and about Apple’s factories there:
No, he didn’t lie about all of it. He did go to southern China and meet with workers from Foxconn. He was there, all right, but he wasn’t honest about what he’d seen. There were no underage workers he’d spoken with, there was no man with a maimed hand. In one passage of his show, Daisey talks about workers who had been poisoned by a gas called n-hexane. That part was true — there had been workers poisoned by this gas at a Foxconn factory somewhere in China. But Daisey never spoke to them. Like many of the most upsetting moments in his show, Daisey simply fabricated the encounter.
The lies were so clear and so egregious that after learning the truth, “This American Life” issued a retraction of its report by way of a new show — a show in which host Ira Glass confronted Daisey over the deception.
It’s an uncomfortable listen. As Daisey is called out by Glass, you can hear the hesitation, the panic, and the fear in his voice. He doesn’t offer much in the way of excuses. The main point he drives home is that he felt it was necessary to embellish his story in order to retain the “truth” of the message of his show. He lied to tell the truth, basically.
At this point, a journalist should be expected to state the obvious — that lying doesn’t serve truth, it undermines truth. In this case, Daisey not only lied to make a point, he lied to make a buck, which Topolsky acknowledges in an almost offhand way. Daisey’s lies got him on stage, sold tickets, and made him famous enough as an entertainer and a human-rights activist to get the NPR gig on This American Life. He damaged Apple’s reputation based on lies, and to the extent that even a little of the truth came through, he lifted those experiences from other people and claimed them as first-person testimony.
Topolsky, who founded the tech site Verge, says that Daisey deserves credit for opening eyes, and that the lies were necessary:
But until the radio broadcast Daisey took part in — and many of the follow-up interviews he gave — this problem was never discussed in a such a big, public way. Daisey’s lies inspired honest questions about the gadgets in our pockets. Did he betray the trust of the public and journalists by lying? The answer to this question is easy: Yes. But were the lies necessary?
We have a tendency to tune out the things we don’t like hearing. That is doubly true when money is involved. I’m not suggesting that we didn’t listen when Apple issued its report, and that we didn’t pay attention when the Times published its findings. What I’m saying is that sad songs have a way of sticking with us long after we’ve heard them — and Daisey found a way to tell the sad, human part of this story. To make it catchy enough to stick, even if it was a lie.
No, the lies weren’t necessary. Daisey could have gone to the other factories and done more research. He could have stuck to the truth of whatever he saw and not made up the rest. In the end, his lies end up undermining confidence in the stories about Apple’s business practices in China, in no small part because most people now won’t know where the truth ends and the lies begin. That makes it harder for real journalists to get those truths out to the public, who won’t put much stock into their claims after having been burned by them with the media’s credulous treatment of Daisey until his exposure.
It seems that this is a lesson that some in the media never learn — fake but accurate doesn’t mitigate anything. It’s as satisfying as the orgasm in When Harry Met Sally. And it’s sad that eight years after the CBS/TANG memos debacle, Topolsky and the Washington Post want to make an argument that fake but accurate has some merit in the journalistic sense.
Update: Reader Adam B writes to state that Mapes was fired, and others at CBS resigned. I’ve changed “resignation” to “termination” in the first paragraph.
Related Posts:









Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Hypocrisy…It’s what’s for Breakfast
workingclass artist on February 8, 2013 at 9:23 AM
I recall my first days in a newsroom several years back – the editor spoke to us passionately about the importance of our role of speaking truth to power.
Those days are long gone – as are my days in a newsroom, thankfully.
Red Cloud on February 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM
At this point, what difference does it make?
Galtian on February 8, 2013 at 9:26 AM
It’s because they are all apparatchiks in the mold of WWII-era Germans; ignore that big camp down the road where people enter but never leave and where the ash that falls from the sky has a strange odor.
Every one of these human trashbags would turn away if you and your family were dragged from your house in the name of whatever Bark said needed to be done. They’re all pathetic, enabling cowards.
Bishop on February 8, 2013 at 9:28 AM
It’s been years since we had news. All we get is DNC propaganda straight from the DNC Public Affairs staff (aka Mainstream Media).
Doomsday on February 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM
On the one hand, my brain’s exploding from the hypocrisy.
On the other – will normal people (those who don’t follow politics and world events like we Hot Gasians) notice the hypocrisy now that it’s so blatant and overpowering?
Could this be good?
Washington Nearsider on February 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM
That’s the most hilarious thing I’ve read today. Did you forget the sarc tag?
Doomsday on February 8, 2013 at 9:30 AM
I believe you’re right.
I also believe I wouldn’t go quietly. I want nothing to do with a real fight with the US government in any capacity. I don’t think it’s a fight I could win.
But should that fight show up at my doorstep? I’d be in it. The media would have to cover that, wouldn’t they? Could they turn away from that?
Washington Nearsider on February 8, 2013 at 9:31 AM
From the same group who screeched water-boarding was evil…
hillsoftx on February 8, 2013 at 9:32 AM
Things would be going a lot better for us and the media if that were the case. I’ve said repeatedly that the one good thing to come out of the Obama Presidency is that whoever is the next Republican in the White House will have the ultimate Get Out of Jail Free card to play throughout their term(s) by simply saying “yeah, but when Obama was President….”. After the left has basically gotten on board this week with approving the policy of assassinating American citizens without due process, they’re gonna have a tough time justifying their opposition toward anything a future Republican President does in the name of national security.
Doughboy on February 8, 2013 at 9:32 AM
Tarde just agrees with Chris Rock….Barry is National Daddy…
harlekwin15 on February 8, 2013 at 9:34 AM
Can this actually go on for four more years? Where will we be if it does?
trigon on February 8, 2013 at 9:35 AM
It is a fight WE can win!
Doomsday on February 8, 2013 at 9:35 AM
And, what this ignorant young Liberal says, matters why?
kingsjester on February 8, 2013 at 9:35 AM
Once upon a time, political assassination was an evil that liberals rejected in all circumstances. There was even an executive order (promulgated by Jimmy Carter, IIRC) that prohibited assassinations of foreigners who were working to harm the U.S. Now liberals twist themselves into knots to justify the assassination of Americans, all because the Boy-King has ordered it. The mind reels at the kind of mental gymnastics that must be necessary for such people to be able to live with themselves.
Athanasius on February 8, 2013 at 9:37 AM
No, they won’t. They’ll say they were always against it, counting on people’s short memories. To use a cliche: “We have always been at war with Eastasia.”
Liam on February 8, 2013 at 9:37 AM
Troll Free.
Del Dolemonte on February 8, 2013 at 9:38 AM
Silly Conservatives, don’t you know Emerson said “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”.
/and it would be foolish for a Liberal to display consistent values- it’s a hindrance to Liberal Fascism.
M240H on February 8, 2013 at 9:39 AM
As tough as they had in switching their attitude on GITMO, drones, Iraqi withdrawal, etc?
“We’ve always been at war with Eastasia“
sharrukin on February 8, 2013 at 9:39 AM
That would be the only hope at that point, right? That it would mean something.
I can’t believe we’re even discussing this like rational people. That says more to me than any action or inaction on the part of the President or the media.
Washington Nearsider on February 8, 2013 at 9:39 AM
The problem is we live in the YouTube era. This stuff is documented and easily retrievable with the simple click of a button. Counting on the ignorance or indifference of the American people will occasionally work(see Obama’s reelection in 2012), but that’s a dangerous strategery for the Democrat/media complex to rely on all the time.
Doughboy on February 8, 2013 at 9:40 AM
Who knew the left would use the novel 1984 as an instruction manual?
sharrukin on February 8, 2013 at 9:41 AM
Treasonous toward the US of A or toward the government? Hussein believes he is the government.
antipc on February 8, 2013 at 9:41 AM
Weird, right? They’re bouncing all over the place, but never manage to poke their heads up on threads like this…
Washington Nearsider on February 8, 2013 at 9:42 AM
LOL To me, it’s either an instruction manual or a book of prophesy.
Liam on February 8, 2013 at 9:42 AM
C R E D I B I L I T Y ?
.
.
.
z e r o !
KOOLAID2 on February 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM
But switching back and forth? How are the left going to take a future Republican President to task(and be taken seriously) on drone attacks, EIT, indefinite detention, and now even assassinations when all of that was kosher for 8 years under Obama? I’m not saying they won’t go after a Republican over any of this. I’m just saying it’s going to ring completely hollow now they’ve gone on record as being totally cool with the current occupant in the White House engaging in these activities.
Doughboy on February 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM
Only if it is included in “a very special episode” of Honey Boo Boo.
Happy Nomad on February 8, 2013 at 9:45 AM
Ohhhh! Ouch!
Put some ice on that, MSM!!!
ted c on February 8, 2013 at 9:45 AM
If it ever gets down to it these MSM people will be hunted down by killer teams.
docflash on February 8, 2013 at 9:45 AM
It’s completely different because the international situation has changed and the Republican president has made several inflammatory statements that have been instrumental in destabilizing world peace. In theory such drone strikes could be acceptable but given the radical nature of the Republican ‘regime’ it would be unwise and would contribute to an already unstable situation. Then you trot out various statements by Muslim and leftist leaders backing that up.
Rinse and repeat every week or so.
sharrukin on February 8, 2013 at 9:50 AM
Snarky, and the absolute truth.
Bravo Zulu, Ed.
BobMbx on February 8, 2013 at 9:50 AM
If they can support drone strikes on U.S. citizens they can support less violent measures such as locking people up for petty reasons such as refusing to turn-in a high cap mag.
The fascists are straining at the leash now and it’s only the 100 million gun owners out here who are standing in their way, and they know it.
Bishop on February 8, 2013 at 9:51 AM
Apparently you slept through the unpatriotic deficits Bush.
BobMbx on February 8, 2013 at 9:52 AM
You’re thinking like a reasonable man, not as a liberal.
Remember when there was this huge ‘homeless problem’ in the 80s and 90s? It then magically cleared up the day Clinton was elected, and didn’t exist for eight years. Then it magically came back in 2001, albeit briefly; it couldn’t regain traction, though.
The media manufacture problems, then forget about them when their guy is in charge. Not everyone is a political or news junkie, so the electorate tends to forget. When they are reminded, they entirely miss the connection between who is in the White House and why the media-produced issue wasn’t mentioned for up to eight years. Then it’s back to square-one.
I’ve seen this so many times, like with the ‘drug problem’. Every year or two, use of a certain drug was ‘on the rise’. Then another, and another. After a cycle, the MSM went back to the first one. Either reporters are crazy, or we are for giving them any credence whatsoever.
Or maybe I’m just too cynical?
Liam on February 8, 2013 at 9:53 AM
The thing to remember is is a Republican replaced Barack Obama as president in 2016 and continues Barack Obama’s drone strike policy, not only the media will be wildly against it, but Barack Obama will come out and attack the same policy his administration created and nobody at the big media outlets or on the situational left will even note the hypocrisy and contradiction.
jon1979 on February 8, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Those 100 million will not all comply.
Secretary Clinton said that dissent is the highest form of patriotism. I agree. I dissent.
Washington Nearsider on February 8, 2013 at 9:53 AM
… and Abu Graib and harsh interrogation techniques like having to listen to loud rock music or nutritional manipulation. … and Gitmo and extraterritorial rendition …
I like the idea of no longer calling them the MSM but calling them the DNC Public Affairs staff. That was a brilliant description Doomsday
AZfederalist on February 8, 2013 at 9:55 AM
I don’t have a problem with discussing the possibility of using drone attacks to take out non-state actors when we have intelligence about showing immediate danger to the national interests.
What I do have a problem with is that, apparently, the protocol in place is simply if the rat-eared wonder is especially cranky on a given day and feels like killing somebody. There is no deliberative process that includes assessments, alternatives, and legal review. Just a thin-skinned bastard who sits on his throne and gives the thumbs up or down sign like some sort of modern-day Caligula.
IMO, the only way this should work in a free society is that if the determination is made to take out an American citizen (or even a bad guy non-citizen) then the need to do it by drone has to be justified in a transparent way. As it is, we are expected and required to simply trust that the rat-eared wonder is not abusing the powers of his office and that these drone attacks are justified on his word alone. If a Republican were in office the term “war criminal” would be splashed all over the MSM. With a filthy commie all we get is the sound of crickets.
Happy Nomad on February 8, 2013 at 9:56 AM
In terms of deficits, Bush did spend like a drunken sailor. And that it came in the aftermath of the relatively frugal Clinton/Newt era didn’t help matters. But again, the left suddenly became cool with deficits(even ones 3 times as large as Bush’s worst one) under Obama. Even a lack of a budget for 4 years is no big deal suddenly.
Again, I’m not saying the Democrat/media complex won’t develop collective amnesia the moment a Republican is elected President, but that also won’t prevent their own words from being used against them 24/7.
Doughboy on February 8, 2013 at 9:56 AM
Or making a YouTube video that the administration wants to use as the excuse for Muslim animals attacking our embassies and killing Americans the old-fashioned way.
Happy Nomad on February 8, 2013 at 9:58 AM
All Hail Obama!
All Hail the State!
Bevan on February 8, 2013 at 9:59 AM
http://www.grimmy.com/editorials.php
When I see this from the left ,
I have hope .
Lucano on February 8, 2013 at 10:00 AM
I’m sorry but I’m with John McCain on this one. Sailors stop spending when they run out of money. To compare them to the deficit spending in DC is an insult to drunken sailors everywhere.
Happy Nomad on February 8, 2013 at 10:00 AM
This drunken sailor agrees.
Washington Nearsider on February 8, 2013 at 10:05 AM
I thought it was a pretty common, or at least readily available, feature for someone to be convicted in absentia. I don’t see why The Most High Reverend Preezy and sidekick Mustachio can’t be bothered to perform a regular criminal trial against these citizens that fight for the enemy. Shoot, (pun intended) they could even use one of those super-duper-evil military tribunals.
Nutstuyu on February 8, 2013 at 10:10 AM
Who’s Your Daddy?
blammm on February 8, 2013 at 10:14 AM
Trial In absentia is illegal under US law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_absentia
The Court unanimously held, in an opinion written by Justice Harry Blackmun, that Rule 43 does not permit the trial in absentia of a defendant who is absent at the beginning of trial.
sharrukin on February 8, 2013 at 10:15 AM
If the RNC was smart, which they are definitely not, they would hire PI’s to investigate every MSM talking head and publish their findings.
Mr. Arrogant on February 8, 2013 at 10:16 AM
…IT’S SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE!…everyday!
KOOLAID2 on February 8, 2013 at 10:17 AM
We have to get by this complaining!
The media is completely corrupt. Most of America only get information from them. There is no way this country survives that sort of corruption. We can’t just watch and complain
We must organize and fight. Economically and politically.
GardenGnome on February 8, 2013 at 10:21 AM
Still waiting for someone on the left/MSM to say “Oh, so now you care about due process? Where was this when we were capturing terrorists on the field of battle?”
The difference being, of course, that drone strikes could be on American citizens while foreign-born terrorists are just that. Nuance was never a left/MSM strong suit though.
Rufus on February 8, 2013 at 10:23 AM
THIS
cmsinaz on February 8, 2013 at 10:25 AM
Say, remember when tapping suspected terrorists’ phone lines sans warrant was so diabolical and appalling to the American psyche you just had to make a movie about killing evil tyrant, Dubya, in order to cope with the mind-numbing atrocity?
RepubChica on February 8, 2013 at 10:27 AM
Upon reflection, I would prefer Two Minutes Of Hate rather than 30-90 Minutes Of Supercilious Misinformed PC Juvenile Mockery Posing As Humor.
jangle12 on February 8, 2013 at 10:35 AM
Amen… smartest thing you’ve ever said, ED…
Khun Joe on February 8, 2013 at 10:35 AM
Liberal journolisters would be first to volunteer to insert the canisters of Zyklon-B. That is their nature.
RSbrewer on February 8, 2013 at 10:36 AM
How much longer will it be before Obama himself unilaterally decides to drop bombs from drones, inside the United States, on those “crasy right wingers” at Waco or Ruby Ridge. My perception is the left coasts and MSM would be completely OK with it.
TulsAmerican on February 8, 2013 at 10:36 AM
Pay them no respect when you encounter them. Walk through their live shots. Confront them in public. Jaw at them anytime you come across them. No time is wrong, no situation is inappropriate
Thicklugdonkey on February 8, 2013 at 10:40 AM
FISA courts were created for these purposes.
Regardless, the Valerie Plame outing was sooooo much worse than this or the Benghazi attacks. Just ask any journalist.
The sun sets in the West every evening, the tax man will come a callin’, we’ll all die some day, and mainstream media will cover for any progressive/lib regardless of their actions (John Edwards isn’t such a bad guy after all)…guarantees in life.
This place is done for, we just get to be the ones that watch it as it burns to the ground. We had a good run.
Geministorm on February 8, 2013 at 10:50 AM
With Obama, you just know that secretly in his heart he interprets “treason” to mean any citizen against him and his administration of statists and America-haters.
If he happens to assassinate an actual enemy of the United States along the way, well, then that’s some unexpected icing on the cake.
PatriotGal2257 on February 8, 2013 at 11:04 AM
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. Unless it’s not.
steebo77 on February 8, 2013 at 11:08 AM
Just wait until there’s a Republican in office (if that’s even possible anymore — Republicans don’t cheat very well).
The media will become anti-establishment again.
The Rogue Tomato on February 8, 2013 at 11:15 AM
Considering his history of demonizing his enemies with intent to destroy, coupled with his disregard for the Constitution and a compliant media, what is there to stop him?
antipc on February 8, 2013 at 11:15 AM
The wind blows all right. And the journalist blow right along with it. But it isn’t wind.
Hummer53 on February 8, 2013 at 11:26 AM
I see lots of comments about hypocrisy here and elsewhere. Hannity is very good at pointing it out too. However, does anyone on the left really care? They don’t. There is no morality, there is no conscience, and there is only destruction: Destruction of the opposition and destruction of the nation. Sorry to be so blunt but that’s the truth from where I see it.
To sit and think that these people care about the country or their own well-being is frivolous. They do not think more than one day ahead, these are shallow people with shallow souls. They’ve been trained that way.
In all candor, I think a cold civil war has begun. And those who worship Obama will do all in their power to maintain their savior. Hypocrisy be damned.
Jabez01 on February 8, 2013 at 11:26 AM
Do we seriously expect the in-the-hip-pocket running lapdog media NOT to all eleventy-gasmic over whatever Teh One decides he wants to do.
Notice the lack of a question mark.
dissent555 on February 8, 2013 at 11:32 AM
I have a question about this. My hope is perhaps you all will help flesh this out for me. Is a Marine sniper on the battlefield from, lets say, two clicks out committing and assassination when he pulls the trigger on a enemy?
Bmore on February 8, 2013 at 11:38 AM
Excellent comment. +1,000.
This is true, yes; however, some of them might be surprised and perhaps even hurt when they themselves become targets in some way, especially if they perceive themselves to be super-loyal water carriers. Their shallowness also doesn’t include the possibility that they might be perceived as turncoats for any whimsical reason that might arise. Cue much sardonic laughter from the rest of us.
PatriotGal2257 on February 8, 2013 at 11:42 AM
Yes, I say we coopt Hillary Clintons’ “What does it matter” comment for things like this. Right? sheesh sarc off
jake49 on February 8, 2013 at 11:57 AM
My thoughts exactly.
Where are our idiots telling us we lost?
Probably busy changing their Depends.
itsspideyman on February 8, 2013 at 11:59 AM
Yup.
John the Libertarian on February 8, 2013 at 12:05 PM
Touré: The Ultimate ObamaFirster
Resist We Much on February 8, 2013 at 12:06 PM
They might cover it, but that doesn’t mean you’d get any support when the government thugs murdered you and your family. The mass murder of the Branch Davidians in Waco proves it. 21 of those murdered were children under the age of 16.
The US government is evil. It is the enemy. And you should fear it.
woodNfish on February 8, 2013 at 12:24 PM
In a heartbeat.
To satisfy their masters.
And, if it’s not reported…it never happened.
Solaratov on February 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM
Yeah, but then most of the media whores would be out of a job. How many actually have the ability for ‘investigative reporting’?
Most of the current crop appear only to have the ability to fall on their knees before The Chosen One and ask difficult questions such as:
1) How was your day?
2) How do you keep such a nice crease in your trousers?
3) Playing golf this weekend?
GarandFan on February 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM
There seems to be a lot of that going around.
Maybe it’s the new flu./
Solaratov on February 8, 2013 at 2:27 PM
Horsecrap – ideological hypocrisy is exactly what it is ultimately about. Just watch those willing handmaidens turn into mighty anti-establishment warriors… the instant a Republican becomes President.
Who do you think you’re fooling?
drunyan8315 on February 8, 2013 at 2:47 PM
WTF…There are no easy answers for a nation attempting not just to defend itself from military attack
sure there is….. just use the phrase “imminent threat” then ya can vaporize yahoo’s that are sitting on their Camel in the middle of a Yemen desert. Of course this assumes the the clowns run’n da circus are still argue’n over what the meaning of “IS”… IS
roflmmfao
donabernathy on February 8, 2013 at 3:30 PM
-
I read a full page article in an engineering trade mag today, it had the same long winding excuse ridden format. The article was titled something like ‘so where are the jobs?’… Actually I think it was the editor’s opinion piece…
It went on about off shoring being a decades long problem, and that re-shoring those jobs will not happen… due to efficiency improvements in the manufacturing world. Etcetera… AKA… excuse making for the continued poor jobs market.
There was also one sentence that foisted a load of blame on the REPUBLICANS… but not one drop of ‘dem blood’ or Barry’s finger prints are on the current economic malaise according to the writer. Fact is I saw cover for Barry all over the page. This guy has done this before, maybe it was over the Volt/GM/Detroit… But I’m not sure, it’s been a year or 2.
The faithful are now laying the ground work for a second term that totally sucks… and yet that allows them the warm feeling that Obullsh*tter kept it from being much worse.
RalphyBoy on February 9, 2013 at 12:24 AM
Suppose for a minute that a sufficient number of redheads became annoyed enough at the problems they face just because they have red hair get together in a loose confederation within the US and decide to “get even”. Suppose they arm themselves with bomb making materials, organize themselves in small quasi-military units, and proceed to wreck havoc on our cities and country side. Suppose they manage to give a whole city a case of the runs one day by putting something in the water supply.
Now we’re really mad at this subset of redheads. And they are numerous enough, organized enough, and dispersed enough that they really hurt us with some regularity.
How do we declare war on them? How do we fight them when they can use hair dye and make-up to disguise their being redheads while all the other peaceful redheads still exist, with red hair? They are among us. They are us. They are American citizens. And yet they are attacking us in loosely coordinated and devastating fashion. What do we do? How do we deal with this?
Don’t prattle to me about “police”. What do the police look for?
What do we allow our POTUS to do if he is somebody we trust to do right?
What do we allow our POTUS if a scoundrel is elected two years later when our man’s term runs out?
Reverse that. Do we want our “trusted” man to be saddled with insane restrictions placed on the scoundrel?
Those are tough questions, especially in a political climate such as we have when trust in our government just plain does not exit nor is it warranted, not for Bush, certainly not for Obama.
It is time to figure out what to do rather than blather about the Constitution when arguably it does not apply. Fighting for a foreign government used to and should still end your US citizenship unless Congress decides otherwise. Logically fighting for a more or less organized enemy of the US that is not itself a nation but fights with a nation’s worth of resources should also remove citizenship.
Regardless of citizenship, a silly shibboleth for argument, ALL men and women have a right to a fair trial and so forth given by God. But some of them resist arrest, do not avail themselves of opportunities to safely surrender and submit to trial. They may stay in their bunker with their hostage, instead. Common usage means we send in armed fighters to disarm him and capture him, if possible, and kill him if needed. If moving in on him is impossible, now we have drones. Or perhaps now we arm our police with Apaches. Either way if the person is causing enough disruption, he or she dies. If there is a taint of wrong doing involved those involved may face problems once all the smoke has cleared, presuming we are the victors.
Note that this may redefine our national relationship with organized crime and criminal gangs. What are the consequences. Think it out.
WTF DO we do? And, we’ve dawdled long enough we have to act fairly precipitously. The voters have done this to themselves.
{^_^}
herself on February 9, 2013 at 2:39 AM