Well explained but don’t expect to change anything.

yongoro on March 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Sad that the two of you represent teachers.

]]>isn’t it my job make intelligible the ignorant flailings of my students — to help them understand how to solve problems, and to give them the tools to do so?

You should make them push themselves to your standard rather than sinking down to theirs.

Look, nobody appreciated partial credit more than I. I often made calculation errors.

However, I never expected credit unless I demonstrated an actual knowledge of how to solve the problem. Chelsea exhibited no knowledge of how to solve the problem. She merely raised issues associated with the problem.

No partial credit for her. Period.

Partial credit is a useful motivating tool — rather than just mark it all wrong and make them figure it out, I can help students see where they were on the right track.

She was never on the right track. This is what worries me about both your teaching methodology and your own knowledge.

the students I’ve placed in excellent engineering jobs around the world.

Please don’t tell me that you’re an engineer. And if you’re not an engineer then tell me what institution has non-engineers teaching Dynamics to engineers?

]]>She knows that she can run a mile in 6 minutes, or ten miles in one hour. If she could relate her speed to the car’s average speed, she could extrapolate to estimate the range of the car. I don’t think there’s anything strange in what I wrote.

Darth Hippie on March 21, 2012 at 2:08 AM

One doesn’t extrapolate her running speed to figure out how long it takes the car to go 80 miles.

One would extrapolate to figure out how long it would take HER to go 80 miles – NOT the car.

I’m just trying to show that, once you accept the ridiculous premise that ‘mph’ means nothing, how one would go about trying to estimate range.

She didn’t need to estimate range. She needed to figure out the time of travel for a car to go a certain distance.

My point is that a speedometer reading “80 mph” isn’t actually measuring speed — it’s measuring axle turns, which are an open-loop estimation of speed. Calibrated, yes, but still… Travis exhibits a classic problem I encounter in class all the time — the assumption that whatever answer pops out of the computer is correct.

No, no, no, no, no. Not at all.

Travis doesn’t say, “if our speedometer reading indicates that we are traveling at 80 mph. Travis says, “if we ARE traveling 80 mph.”

Both you and Chelsea introduced issues into the problem that don’t matter.

There is not reason to raise the issue of wheel size, headwinds, chronometer errors, etc. All the information was provided.

The context (which I admit I did not explain very well) was for how to estimate speed when you don’t have access to a little needle giving you ‘mph’.

Good grief. This isn’t true at all. This speaks volumes of our education system.

You didn’t mention anything about estimating speed. Estimating speed would be measuring the time between mile markers and them do a Distance/Time calculation.

]]>Well explained but don’t expect to change anything.

Blink seems to get his jollies by cutting others down and is not interested in any sort of * conversation*. Instead he sees it as a debate that he has to win.

He had no problem whatsoever maligning me when he thought I had made an error in my math but never apologized when it was pointed out that the mistake was his.

Sad, really sad.

]]>She votes. ID or not.

]]>Sqrl on March 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

So in other words you would give good credit to a student that failed to even grasp the basic mathematical elements in the problem simply because in her flailing she hit upon something that you could make intelligible through a lot of stretching?

First off, as I noted to ‘blink’, I’m trying to restore some degree of dignity to this poor girl who was betrayed by her husband into the unkind hands of the internet. So stretching was going to be a necessary part of my response.

Yes, she should know what ‘miles per hour’ means — and no, no student is really going to pass my Dynamics class without being able to work with basic units. But the rest of her so-called flailing indicated some actual thought process. I can work with someone like that — I can teach them what the units mean, and then I can show them how to hone their thought process to make actual engineering judgements.

Put another way: as an educator, isn’t it my **job** make intelligible the ignorant flailings of my students — to help them understand how to solve problems, and to give them the tools to do so?

Partial credit is a useful motivating tool — rather than just mark it all wrong and make them figure it out, I can help students see where they were on the right track. (Aside: I’m generous with partial credit because I’m notorious for creating seemingly-innocuous problems that are actually tricky to solve.)

While at the same time expelling a student who knew how to do the work but had an attitude problem that could (and should) be addressed separately from his grade on the test?

PS – I don’t at all disagree that this guy is a complete ass for what he did. I am simply taken aback by the notion that attitude problems in your classroom mean someone is unworthy of an education.

Sarcasm, dude, sarcasm. (Actually, hyperbole.) I was just circling back to my original point — his gross dereliction of duty was far worse than her gross ignorance.

Is it any wonder we have problems in our education system?

I stand by my methods and especially my results — the students I’ve placed in excellent engineering jobs around the world. I’m damn proud of them.

]]>blink on March 20, 2012 at 12:17 PM

But it’s most certainly stupid to be ignorant of certain things. It’s stupid to be ignorant of the fact that 80 mph means that one would travel 80 miles in one hour.

Agreed. It’s embarrassing that she doesn’t know what mph means. As I explained in my lead paragraph, this poor girl has been dragged into the internet to be an object of ridicule — dragged into it by her husband, of all people — and I’m just trying to point out the redeemable parts of her mistake.

She recognizes that she has insufficient data to complete the extrapolation, and discards that line of thinking.

1. Actually, she doesn’t have insufficient date. It’s strange that you would imply that she does.

2. It’s strange for you to consider that an extrapolation.

She knows that she can run a mile in 6 minutes, or ten miles in one hour. If she could relate her speed to the car’s average speed, she could extrapolate to estimate the range of the car. I don’t think there’s anything strange in what I wrote.

(And yes, this is a ridiculous thought exercise, given that she has all the data she needs to solve the problem. I’m just trying to show that, once you accept the ridiculous premise that ‘mph’ means nothing, how one would go about trying to estimate range.)

3) She thinks about how a speedometer works (measuring how quickly the axles rotate), and recognizes that different-diameter wheels will travel different distances …

This isn’t true at all – as we all know.

Different-diamater wheels will travel the SAME distances. They will both travel 80 miles.

A wheel with diameter D feet will move forward (pi*D) feet with every revolution of the axle. A wheel with diameter 2*D feet will move forward 2*pi*D feet with every revolution.

My point is that a speedometer reading “80 mph” isn’t actually measuring speed — it’s measuring axle turns, which are an open-loop estimation of speed. Calibrated, yes, but still… Travis exhibits a classic problem I encounter in class all the time — the assumption that whatever answer pops out of the computer is correct.

In fact, I’d probably give Chelsea 65-75% credit on this problem.

Good grief.

This is exactly why we have people like Chelsea – because too many teachers like you will give her a passing grade for this.

Let’s all take a deep breath before accusing one another of ruinous teaching methods that are driving our great nation into the ditch (at 80 mph, no less). The context (which I admit I did not explain very well) was for how to estimate speed when you don’t have access to a little needle giving you ‘mph’.

Screw up the units on one of my exams, and it’s always points off.

]]>But the dude is still a pr!ck. If this happened to one of my girls, the boyfriend or husband would be eating a knuckle sandwich.

]]>They’re driving from Logan, Utah to Boise, Idaho. My bet is that’s a happily newlywed Mormon couple.

Transpo on March 19, 2012 at 6:07 PM

They are a happily newlywed Mormon couple. You can find the guy’s facebook page here. He’s clearly LDS.

As a Mormon myself, I find this video embarrassing because a lot of LDS guys are immature and stupid. There are great LDS guys out there. This guy isn’t one of them.

As far as LDS women, most of them are very bright and pretty but very they are superficial.

That’s why I prefer dating Non-LDS women.

]]>Good day.

yongoro on March 20, 2012 at 9:32 PM

Ha! I’ll let you save face and be completely silent on your original claim.

]]>archer52 on March 20, 2012 at 9:22 PM

Amen! Gimme a brunette any day.

Q: why do blonde women have bruises around their belly-buttons?

A: because blonde* guys are dumb too!

*substitute “blonde” with “Democrat” – that is a truism as well

]]>If you think that 58 is within 3 1/3% of 80 then I have most certainly won this debate. Good grief.

What on earth are you doing teaching ANYONE math?

uh, 58 min is within 3 1/3% of 60 min.

Good day.

]]>I was married to a blonde just like her. You have NO IDEA how many stunned looks I had during the sixteen yrs I was with her. I mean, totally clueless! Not unintelligent, just totally clueless.

I watched her one time drive over an entire 4×8 piece of plywood with 2×4’s nailed into it, and looked at me in surprise when I mentioned she did it. She didn’t know, she didn’t care. I called her car “the magic box” because all she wanted was that it turned over when she put in the key. She didn’t worry about tire pressure, oil or even gas.

When we were dating, she had a Taurus. She actually asked me what that light was that kept coming on as she turned. It was the fuel pump low gas warning light. She drove her car nearly empty all the time. It took years for me to get her to understand that a full tank and running it to the halfway point was the same as a half tank and running it until…well the cute little light went on when you turned.

One time she called me saying her car had gone off the road. When I got there, her Corolla was in a water filled ditch, partially submerged, with the headlights still on and illuminating the fish swimming by. I swear to God it’s the truth! Her explanation? She had passed the place she wanted to turn into and decided to do a turn in the middle of the road. She just didn’t anticipate going over the soft shoulder so far that her car just slid in. Now it had been raining every day for a week. You had to be an idiot or a blonde not to know the shoulders were muddy.

And yes, before you say “Well you married her!” I accept full responsibility. She was beautiful and I was suffering from the Robin Williams rule, as all men do at one point or another.

]]>We’re not talking about picking lottery numbers.

yongoro on March 20, 2012 at 7:38 PM

I’m not surprised that you’re unable to understand the point I was making with the lottery number example.

She played around with a few ideas. Dismissed some, and then, after we watched her head merrily down the wrong path, she came up with an answer within 3 1/3% of the actual answer. 58 minutes doesn’t seem an answer one pulls out of ones butt (as you put it).

No, Sqrl put it best. You’re giving “good credit to a student that failed to even grasp the basic mathematical elements in the problem simply because in her flailing she hit upon something that you could make intelligible through a lot of stretching?”

she came up with an answer within 3 1/3% of the actual answer.

If you think that 58 is within 3 1/3% of 80 then I have most certainly won this debate. Good grief.

What on earth are you doing teaching ANYONE math?

but I am a little interested in knowing her thought process that led her to her answer. As a teacher, when I understand what the student was thinking, then I can begin to correct the errors that are being made.

Well, YOU get a failing grade here because you attempted to claim that she might have been capable of solving the problem is she understood the problem.

That’s wrong. She understood the problem. She didn’t know how to solve it.

]]>Are you surprised when you hear that someone picked 6 lottery numbers correctly? Sometimes answers pulled out of butts can be close or even exact. This doesn’t mean that the person had some sense of what the lottery numbers were going to be.

Really? We’re not talking about picking lottery numbers. She played around with a few ideas. Dismissed some, and then, after we watched her head merrily down the wrong path, she came up with an answer within 3 1/3% of the actual answer. 58 minutes doesn’t seem an answer one pulls out of ones butt (as you put it). She finally settles on an answer she feels comfortable with. I have students that are more than happy to tell me about houses that are 4 ft tall and moms that are younger than their children, with absolutely no inkling that they may be in error.

I’m not saying I’d give her any credit at all, but I am a little interested in knowing her thought process that led her to her answer. As a teacher, when I understand what the student was thinking, then I can begin to correct the errors that are being made.

]]>Answer: absolutely none.

]]>So in other words you would give good credit to a student that failed to even grasp the basic mathematical elements in the problem simply because in her flailing she hit upon something that you could make intelligible through a lot of stretching?

While at the same time expelling a student who knew how to do the work but had an attitude problem that could (and should) be addressed separately from his grade on the test?

Is it any wonder we have problems in our education system?

Sqrl on March 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

These questions are perfectly articulated – much better than my response to him.

]]>Troll Feeder on March 20, 2012 at 1:58 PM

shudda, wudda, cudda. (all of which got hit by spell check)

]]>Two losers on the road to nowhere!!!

(*If they don’t kill each other: the guy will be drafted for the next war and sent overseas…where he’ll be fragged by his own men. She will go sightseeing in Hawaii and go wading in a volcanic lava pit. They’ll both be nominated posthumously for Darwin awards, with extra oak leaf clusters for NOT degrading the gene pool by having children*)

So in other words you would give good credit to a student that failed to even grasp the basic mathematical elements in the problem simply because in her flailing she hit upon something that you could make intelligible through a lot of stretching?

While at the same time expelling a student who knew how to do the work but had an attitude problem that could (and should) be addressed separately from his grade on the test?

Is it any wonder we have problems in our education system?

]]>