WW2 vet fails voter ID test in Ohio

posted at 9:15 am on March 7, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

We always knew that once new voter ID laws were in place, some people were going to fail to qualify at their polling place and a predictable amount of sturm und drang would result. Well, it’s already taken place in Ohio on Super Tuesday. Had it been some person who lacked an ID card because he’d just gotten out of jail and had a long time to wait until his seventeen DWI suspensions cleared, he wouldn’t provide a very sympathetic case for opponents to trumpet. Unfortunately, the situation of Paul Carroll paints a very different media narrative.

AURORA, Ohio – A Portage County World War II veteran was turned away from a polling place this morning because his driver’s license had expired in January and his new Veterans Affairs ID did not include his home address.

“My beef is that I had to pay a driver to take me up there because I don’t walk so well and have to use this cane and now I can’t even vote,” said Paul Carroll, 86, who has lived in Aurora nearly 40 years, running his own business, Carroll Tire, until 1975.

“I had to stop driving, but I got the photo ID from the Veterans Affairs instead, just a month or so ago. You would think that would count for something. I went to war for this country, but now I can’t vote in this country.”

It doesn’t get much worse than this in terms of the MSM narrative. The guy isn’t just a law abiding senior citizen, but he’s a veteran of the second world war to boot. With a cane. And he had an ID card provided by Veterans Affairs. This is a dream come true for progressive opponents of voter ID laws to jump on for an end zone dance, and it’s already started.

Yes, Mr. Carroll could have filled out a provisional ballot, and he was offered one at his polling place. But – again – he provides the perfect response, saying the print was too small and he’d forgotten his glasses and wasn’t sure if they counted the provisional ballots anyway.

This case should be instructive for everyone, no matter which side of the debate you come down on. When enacting voter ID laws, there need to be a few basic hurdles which all of them should pass. If you’re going to accept any existing forms of ID above and beyond a drivers license, identify all of them out there and work to make sure they will pass muster before enacting the law. But even that won’t be enough in some instances. One suggestion I just heard recently was to make an offer of a free, valid photo ID part of the voter registration process. If the person doesn’t choose to take one, make them initial something on the registration form acknowledging that they passed on the chance. This would also remove the entire “poll tax” question from the process.

And finally, each state doing this should be working with other state and federal agencies to come up with some sort of minimum amount of information which will be displayed on the document. (This could apply to universities as well.) If the Veterans Administration had included a home address on their cards, today’s kerfuffle never would have happened. All of this adds up to one driving imperative, though. Before you can cleanly put laws like this in place, a lot of planning is required. Hopefully other states will learn from Ohio’s stumble.


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It’s absurd. Have stricter rules regarding voting that are currently on the books, not this.

DanStark on March 7, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Like what? There are strict rules now that state you have to live in the precinct to vote and have to be 18 and have to be a US citizen. Problem is, people break those rules.

You’re confusing strict rules with enforcement of the rules. It’s like saying it’s absurd to have police officers, just make more laws.

angryed on March 7, 2012 at 10:16 AM

angryed on March 7, 2012 at 9:46 AM

The worst thing that happens to an illegal alien who gets “caught” is that they get a pamphlet (in their native language, of course) from some government employee explaining the illegal’s “rights” and directing them to the appropriate federal agencies to help them exploit U.S. taxpayers.

AZCoyote on March 7, 2012 at 10:16 AM

As someone else noted here, there is still time to work out this man’s issue before the general election in November.

However–since the Dimbeciles are the party of compassion and helping, then why don’t the gentle and caring lefties, if they’re concerned enough to be outraged, provide him the assistance, whatever it takes, including $$$, to obtain the proper ID?

They just want to steer the conversation to outrage and insist that the law is wrong rather than using benevolence, charity, kindness, generosity, goodness–all the things they claim to be. Hey libs, it’s time–put up or shut up!

stukinIL4now on March 7, 2012 at 10:20 AM

In Statistics there is a Saying…

Once is an Occurance,
Twice is an Anomoly,
Three or more times is a Trend.

Yesterday (Super Tuesday) there were 1,194,903 votes cast in the Republican Primary and they found HOW MANY problems?

ONE!

An Occurance, NOT a trend.

And there were Remedies available but, gosh, it’s too much trouble to just take a provisional ballot and have the person that drove you there help you read it so you can cast your vote that you’re entitled to vote… Right?

This is where we have to make the point, out of 1.2 million, they can only find one issue – where work arounds were offered and refused – to show the Flaws in the system?

@Blindside – Only $5.00? Here in Washington it’s $25.00 for a CCP.

jaydee_007 on March 7, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Folks, some of you are missing a point here…a VA “ID Card” isn’t an ID Card at all. It contains no information on it like a state issued ID card or drivers license, just your name and a photo of you.

It is used to verify that you are enrolled in the VA Health Care system and eligible to receive care.

Gothguy on March 7, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Not good that he didn’t get to vote, of course.

But turning down a provisional ballot (which someone would have assisted him with to counter for his forgetting his glasses) undercuts the meme a bit.

krome on March 7, 2012 at 10:29 AM

His driver’s license expired and he didn’t obtain an updated state identification card…

What’s the issue here?

NotCoach on March 7, 2012 at 10:30 AM

So, let me see if I have this all straight – WWII veteran, had to get a ride to the polling place, had a veteran’s ID that just happened to not be valid, didn’t have his glasses to fill out the provisional, and it’s all over the news in less than 24 hours. And, pitch-perfect statement for the press (“I went to war for this country but now I can’t vote in this country”).

If I were a recruiter for an anti-voter ID activist group, I couldn’t have found a better poster child. What luck for them that he presented himself in such a timely manner.

How has Mr. Carroll managed to function in the past without ID? Does he never do business with, say, a bank? A pharmacy? An airline?

Missy on March 7, 2012 at 10:30 AM

krome on March 7, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Yep. This actually sounds like a setup to discredit Ohio’s voter ID law.

NotCoach on March 7, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Folks, some of you are missing a point here…a VA “ID Card” isn’t an ID Card at all. It contains no information on it like a state issued ID card or drivers license, just your name and a photo of you.

It is used to verify that you are enrolled in the VA Health Care system and eligible to receive care.

Gothguy on March 7, 2012 at 10:28 AM

An excellent point. That should have been brought out in Shaw’s write up.

cicerone on March 7, 2012 at 10:33 AM

The vote total in the Ohio primary is 1,181,074 votes. This report states one man out of one million, one hundred and eighty-one thousand and seventy four votes had trouble with voter ID.

As Jazz correctly pointed out, EVERY vote counts and that is why PROVISIONAL voting is provided at the polling place.

“But – again – he provides the perfect response, saying the print was too small and he’d forgotten his glasses and wasn’t sure if they counted the provisional ballots anyway.”

It sounds like Mr. Carroll was making his problem even more difficult. Part of the provisional process is recording any changes – like address or married name, etc.

Not sure about Ohio, but here in Missouri, we have a magnifying glass as standard equipment in all the polling places, and the option to have another person sign off to fill out the ballot for you, if you’re impaired.

EVERY vote counts, but this is a hick-up, not a malignant malady, in the process. Fix it and move on.

locomotivebreath1901 on March 7, 2012 at 10:33 AM

This Patriot of WWII should be thrilled to discover that finally (after decades of abuse) his singular vote would no longer be diluted by voter fraud.

Carnac on March 7, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Yes, Mr. Carroll could have filled out a provisional ballot

There ya go, end of story. Good thing I’m not dumb enough to fall for narratives driven by JournoList frauds.

MNHawk on March 7, 2012 at 10:45 AM

Jazz is right; this is a horribly written law. The guy had a government issued ID–and it’s still not good enough for some of you.

Free Constitution on March 7, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Bullcrap.

The guy was OFFERED a provisional ballot, so he could vote. He refused it. This is on him, not the Ohio law. There was a provision in the law that would have allowed him to vote.

JannyMae on March 7, 2012 at 10:46 AM

I love vets, but they have just as much responsibility to make sure their ID is current as everyone else does. It isn’t that hard, isn’t that our point?

ctmom on March 7, 2012 at 10:48 AM

I love vets, but they have just as much responsibility to make sure their ID is current as everyone else does. It isn’t that hard, isn’t that our point?

ctmom on March 7, 2012 at 10:48 AM

Why do you hate our troops? ////

tdpwells on March 7, 2012 at 10:50 AM

“There are strict rules now that state you have to live in the precinct to vote and have to be 18 and have to be a US citizen.”

I have gotten drivers licences in three states (NJ, CA, VA) over the last sixty years and voted in two states over the last fifty years and I have never shown proof of citizenship.

burt on March 7, 2012 at 10:50 AM

burt on March 7, 2012 at 10:50 AM

I know, isn’t shameful that it has been so easy to fraudulently vote for the last 50 years?

NotCoach on March 7, 2012 at 10:52 AM

One suggestion I just heard recently was to make an offer of a free, valid photo ID part of the voter registration process.

Who will issue the ID? What kind of accountability will be put in place to insure that only citizens get those IDs and not illegal or other immigrants?

astonerii on March 7, 2012 at 10:59 AM

The thing hardly ever mentioned is that there are states that have had photo ID requirements for years, including Biden’s home state, Delaware. The GOP needs to talk about the successes and the “business as usual” nature of voting in those states. I hardly ever read of problems here.

mathgal60 on March 7, 2012 at 11:01 AM

This is STUPID! Did the driver license have his home address on it? Did the photo on the license look like him? Here’s a novel thought, HIRE POLL WORKERS WITH SOME FREAKING COMMON SENSE!

Or are these poll workers from the TSA?

GarandFan on March 7, 2012 at 11:02 AM

If politicians are so incompetent as to make laws that are so riddled with loopholes or are so labyrinthine as to make it nearly impossible for average, ordinary people to obey them then they deserve to be used as tools when their stupid laws fail. I hope the evil left uses this event to their advantage and stinks up the airwaves with it. Both parties deserve the negative light that is shown on them. Watch the rats scurry for cover.

Nothing the local, state, and federal governments do works anymore. America doesn’t need any more freaking laws, rules, or regulations put on the books – we have had enough and are sick of it.

This is just more proof that our local, state, and federal governments are run by corrupt, inept, incompetent party-hack fools.

Today it is Ohio idiot politicians that are scurrying from the light. I wonder which legislative body of incompetent blowhards will rise to the occasion tomorrow. I am certain it will not be a long wait to find out.

Down with the Democrat and Republican parties.

AttaBoyLuther on March 7, 2012 at 11:02 AM

This is what I googled up on the Ohio voter ID law:

Current and valid photo identification, defined as a document that shows the individual’s name and current address, includes a photograph, includes an expiration date that has not passed, and was issued by the U.S. government or the state of Ohio
Current utility bill
Current bank statement
Current government check, paycheck or other government document

Assuming this is the law which is still in effect, anyone who is questioning the motives/actions of the poll worker is simply wrong.

JannyMae on March 7, 2012 at 11:02 AM

In Ohio…one can usually get a ballot with as little as a smile and two utility bills showing present address.

If the name and address match…with or without a photo ID of any kind…a ballot can be issued and in the recent past, has been.

Yesterday, in the smaller precincts, even though the poll workers recognized neighbors, to their credit they did ask for photo ID.

If the ID expired a month or two ago…so long as the address and face matched, I’d put a few dollars down saying that that would have been acceptable.

But this Portage County thing with the vet…overzealous poll workers? Or complete and total fools? Or did Mr. Carroll just get cantankerous all of a sudden…and walk out…after he was challenged? Embarrassed because being a paragon of the community and such he did not ID up prior to heading for the polls?

I’m old.. Never leave the house without ID. And certainly not on my way to vote.

Personal responsibility?

Novel concept?

If Carroll was the only voter in Ohio who was unable to vote yesterday for lack of proper ID, then Ohio is doing a hell of a lot better than it has been for the past few decades.

Have to wonder how many Ohio voters were allowed to vote who were not qualified to vote? ID or no.

That’s where the real problem is.

coldwarrior on March 7, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Folks, this is how the proggies start the cycle. You think that we have moved forward with voter ID in many states? Not until those laws survive at least one voting cycle of two years. It all starts with these sad anecdotes that they thrive on.

They will let these voter ID laws pass and wait quietly until a month before the November election. Then the go to a friendly state judge with a lawsuit. The friendly judge suspends the law while both sides prepare for trial in six months.

Meanwhile the proggies steal another election. In November how far above 100% of the census population in Ohio will the total vote be?

slickwillie2001 on March 7, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Sorry, folks. The premise of this post is false.

Ohio didn’t screw up a new voter ID law. Indeed, last summer, despite considerable opposition, it changed some voting matters (not automatically sending out absentee voting applications and shortening the early voting period, both of which, I think, are now subject to a November referendum), but it dropped the matter of fiddling with the voter ID requirements. So far as I know, Mr. Carroll’s voting problems resulted from existing Ohio law.

Here’s a link to the Ohio Secretary of State’s webpage that summarizes the existing Ohio voter ID requirements that proved insurmountable for Mr. Carroll.

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/elections/Voters/FAQ/ID.aspx

Please note that Mr. Carroll appears to have screwed up the requirement that his VA ID be “current” as noted from the webpage.

For Voter I.D. purposes “current” means the document was issued on a date within one year immediately preceding the date of the election at which the voter seeks to vote, or has on it an expiration date which has not passed as of the date of the election in which the voter seeks to vote.

So, light your hair on fire if you wish. But when Jazz Shaw writes

Hopefully other states will learn from Ohio’s stumble.

You and Jazz need to understand that this “stumble” existed under the previous Democratic administration, and it hasn’t been changed by anything that Governor Kasich and the GOP leadership in the Ohio House and Senate–all inept as they’ve been–have done since being sworn in about 15 months ago.

Jazz, you may want to revisit this post and revise it.

BuckeyeSam on March 7, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Exactly the kind of problems one is going to run into with Voter ID laws on the books. No should have to wait 2 hours at the DMV and pay $XX to simply…vote (and trust me, they’ll have to wait for whatever “freebie ID” is offered also). It’s absurd. Have stricter rules regarding voting that are currently on the books, not this.

DanStark on March 7, 2012 at 9:54 AM

More BS. You have to provide valid ID in order to register to vote. Why shouldn’t you have to provide it when you go to the polls?

JannyMae on March 7, 2012 at 11:07 AM

You do realize that ACORN doesn’t exist any longer, and shut down back in 2010, right?
theoddmanout on March 7, 2012 at 9:37 AM

It’s refreshing to see someone as naive as you nowadays.

KS Rex on March 7, 2012 at 11:08 AM

If there is a Ohio Vietnam Vet reading this, hunt him down and take him to get a valid ID.Us Vets have to stick together.

BruceB on March 7, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Up to the age of 30 for booze and up to 40 for cigarettes, Ohioans are required to show current valid photo ID when challenged by store clerks.

Priorities.

coldwarrior on March 7, 2012 at 11:13 AM

What he should have had is a scrap of paper scrawled with a mexican name and the statement that he was here illegally…probably would have been 40 or 50 volunteers to take him anywhere he needed to go.

uncle_fweddy on March 7, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Being a WWII Vet doesn’t mean you’re not a screw up and you don’t make mistakes.

WordsMatter on March 7, 2012 at 11:15 AM

You do realize that ACORN doesn’t exist any longer, and shut down back in 2010, right?

theoddmanout on March 7, 2012 at 9:37 AM

You DO realize that ACORN sisn’t miss a beat, but simply changed the name on the door and continued their ongoing criminal enterprise, right?

Solaratov on March 7, 2012 at 11:15 AM

The Vet is certainly a sympathetic case. And this is the kind of victim we will hear about, not the guy who just had his license revoked for DUI. Using any ID though would be a serious mistake and would still allow people with college ID’s to vote at their college and home addresses.

jpmn on March 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM

You do realize that ACORN doesn’t exist any longer, and shut down back in 2010, right?

theoddmanout on March 7, 2012 at 9:37 AM

You forgot the sarc tag, but thanks for the morning chuckle.

slickwillie2001 on March 7, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Just as police are given a certain amount of discretion in dealing with the public regarding minor offenses, the polling place volunteers should have the same. All it takes is the application of a little intelligence and common sense to determine the best course of action. Whatever happened to the concept of upholding the spirit of the law, as opposed to the letter of the law? Has our government become so bound to predetermined scripted procedures that there is no room for the humanity of the individuals that work or volunteer in the public sector? Is no one allowed to think for themselves anymore?

Rhetorical questions, the answers are already obvious.

infidel4life on March 7, 2012 at 11:21 AM

I live in Aurora and feel very badly for the vet. However, I am also a vet and went to the polling place with the proper ID along with many other vets. This is a very isolated incident, and being a vet shouldn’t give Mr. Carroll any more sympathy than any other voter. He was offered a remedy and refused it. What should be noted is the poll workers were doing what the’re supposed to do. We should be applauding their dillegence. The people that staff our polling places are last line of defense against voter fraud.

buckeyerich on March 7, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Just as police are given a certain amount of discretion in dealing with the public regarding minor offenses, the polling place volunteers should have the same. All it takes is the application of a little intelligence and common sense to determine the best course of action. Whatever happened to the concept of upholding the spirit of the law, as opposed to the letter of the law? Has our government become so bound to predetermined scripted procedures that there is no room for the humanity of the individuals that work or volunteer in the public sector? Is no one allowed to think for themselves anymore?

Rhetorical questions, the answers are already obvious.

infidel4life on March 7, 2012 at 11:21 AM

No. If we give democratic precinct workers in the inner cities ‘discretion’ we might as well throw the law out the window. The rules have to be followed to the letter.

slickwillie2001 on March 7, 2012 at 11:29 AM

The election official who disrespected Mr. Carrol to this degree needs to be exposed and subjected to the scorn he/she/it so richly deserves. Probably a Democrat, too.

dockywocky on March 7, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Have to wonder when the primary election in Portage County was first announced?

A few days ago?

Last week?

Mid January?

Maybe late Monday afternoon?

Frankly if one has no concern about making sure one’s primary responsibility as a citizen is enabled and maintained…i.e., get a proper ID well before election day and make sure one’s voter registration is up to date…then why should any poll worker be allowed to wing it when presented with a voter who “forgot” to bring a proper ID, or didn’t get around to it over the many many months prior to the scheduled election day?

But this poor hapless vet will be the poster child for opposition to “draconian” voter ID laws in Ohio and all the other states with them or considering them.

Got to make voting easy…wasn’t that the meme all through the 1990′s?

No, make it more difficult.

Seriously.

If a citizen can’t be bothered by a few mere admin details over the period of a year to get everything in order well prior to election day…do we really want folks that unconcerned, careless or stupid, voting?

coldwarrior on March 7, 2012 at 11:35 AM

slickwillie2001 on March 7, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Good point. Common sense and intelligence are non-existent in those areas.

infidel4life on March 7, 2012 at 11:45 AM

because his driver’s license had expired in January

I have never understood this. If the license has obviously not been tampered with and has expired only recently (say within the past 90 days) it should be accepted for voting purposes. One doesn’t suddenly become a non-person or non-resident just because the calendar flipped over another day.

I believe jurisdictions should allow identification that was valid within the past 90 days. That gives someone ample time to get that taken care of.

crosspatch on March 7, 2012 at 11:46 AM

I’m sorry. was he still driving illegally? Valid ID required means valid ID required. WW II vet is irrelavent. law applies to him as well as me.

mouell on March 7, 2012 at 11:49 AM

I have never understood this. If the license has obviously not been tampered with and has expired only recently (say within the past 90 days) it should be accepted for voting purposes. One doesn’t suddenly become a non-person or non-resident just because the calendar flipped over another day.

I believe jurisdictions should allow identification that was valid within the past 90 days. That gives someone ample time to get that taken care of.

crosspatch on March 7, 2012 at 11:46 AM

So the next sob story will be someone whose ID expired 91 days ago. What’s just one day?

slickwillie2001 on March 7, 2012 at 11:49 AM

The cascade of details in this story is, I guess, supposed to make me wilt in sympathy for this poor guy and the injustice of it all. Unfortunately for the narrative-mongers, it also paints a picture of the long chain of circumstances, forgetfulness and orneryness (I didn’t think it would be counted anyway!) that was required to get us to this point, and that impresses me more. Proves what a longshot it is, and how even then it’s dependent on the voter’s demeanor and decision. If I were in the situation, I’d be muttering “oops, messed up, I’ll be better prepared next time”, not playing the aggrieved party.

sistrum on March 7, 2012 at 11:49 AM

It’s refreshing to see someone as naive as you nowadays.

KS Rex on March 7, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Rare, though. Rather like a virgin at Georgetown Law.//

Solaratov on March 7, 2012 at 11:57 AM

why is this even posted?? its an extreme, exceptional, fringe situation. its sad it happened but we shouldnt legislate to deal w/ the most out-of-the-ordinary scenarios.

chasdal on March 7, 2012 at 11:58 AM

crosspatch on March 7, 2012 at 11:46 AM

I am pretty sure the 10 years before the license expired is ample time to “get it taken care of”.

NotCoach on March 7, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Wisconsin goes down: Wisconsin Judge Sides With NAACP, Blocks Enforcement Of Voter ID Law

“A Wisconsin judge on Tuesday granted a temporary injunction to groups trying to stop the state’s controversial new voter identification law.

Dane County Circuit Judge David Flanagan’s decision to grant the injunction stops the law from being in effect for the state’s April 3 presidential primary election.”

slickwillie2001 on March 7, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Our State has far more difficult voter ID laws, yet we see none of these problems. There is an assumption here that registration and verification take time. The State sends information to every single address on registration and precinct procedures.

pat on March 7, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Dear Jazz,

Is there any proof that this man was entitled to vote, other than his declaration of being a WW2 vet and holding a VA ID card?

Is it possible that he’s a liar? Convicted felon? Illegal immigrant from the 40′s, 50′s etc.? (I’m not saying he is any of these, just that the story tugs at heartstrings without providing proof)

I don’t see anywhere in the article where any proof of his story has been offered. Keep in mind that many Filipinos served in the US military in WWII. Not all of them later became US citizens.

Before you can cleanly put laws like this in place, a lot of planning is required.

Yeah, like a sign at the polling place that says:

“Photo ID required. ID must include X,Y, and/or Z”

BobMbx on March 7, 2012 at 12:15 PM

“It doesn’t get much worse than this in terms of the MSM narrative.”

The problem is that you weep and gnash your teeth every single time you are presented with the left’s narrative, Jazz.

I reject the premise of the narrative. The man could have filled out a provisional ballot. Instead, he walked away using flimsy excuses for not voting. Ohio did not turn him away from voting. He walked away from voting and did so at his choice to do so.

He said he got a ride to the poll. Could not that person have read the small print for the man? Did he bother to ask if a poll worker could do that for him?

Your suggestion that if only the Veterans Administration had put the address on the card it would have been good. Well, it would have been for this man, but how good would it be for others? I know a Marine who has moved three times in the last year. I know another Army vet who’s done so five times in the last year. Where does that get them and where does that get the VA who, if by putting addresses on the card would require them to change it every time the holder’s address changes. And how many kerfuffles would have been created by inaccurate addresses?

Che. Can we get someone here whose spine won’t turn to jelly every time the progressive left plays their narrative games?

Dusty on March 7, 2012 at 12:17 PM

So, let me see if I have this all straight – WWII veteran, had to get a ride to the polling place, had a veteran’s ID that just happened to not be valid, didn’t have his glasses to fill out the provisional, and it’s all over the news in less than 24 hours. And, pitch-perfect statement for the press (“I went to war for this country but now I can’t vote in this country”).

If I were a recruiter for an anti-voter ID activist group, I couldn’t have found a better poster child. What luck for them that he presented himself in such a timely manner.

Missy on March 7, 2012 at 10:30 AM

This.
Sandra Fluke, redux.

mrt721 on March 7, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Dear Jazz,

Is there any proof that this man was entitled to vote, other than his declaration of being a WW2 vet and holding a VA ID card?

Is it possible that he’s a liar? Convicted felon? Illegal immigrant from the 40′s, 50′s etc.? (I’m not saying he is any of these, just that the story tugs at heartstrings without providing proof)

I don’t see anywhere in the article where any proof of his story has been offered. Keep in mind that many Filipinos served in the US military in WWII. Not all of them later became US citizens…

BobMbx on March 7, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Check. This guy needs to be checked out by the conservative media. I suspect too that this is a manufactured anecdote.

slickwillie2001 on March 7, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Today it is Ohio idiot politicians that are scurrying from the light. I wonder which legislative body of incompetent blowhards will rise to the occasion tomorrow. I am certain it will not be a long wait to find out.

What? Is this the latest case of legislative malfeasance on the part of democrat members? Running away from their duty just because they don’t have the majority to stop a bill (or bills) of which they don’t approve so there are insufficient members present to cast a legal vote? They aren’t idiots, at least most. They are criminal conspirators deliberately sabotaging the democratic process.

hawkeye54 on March 7, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Yesterday (Super Tuesday) there were 1,194,903 votes cast in the Republican Primary and they found HOW MANY problems?
ONE!
An Occurance, NOT a trend.
jaydee_007 on March 7, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Sounds like you are accidentally speaking the truth here: that “voter fraud” is so vanishingly rare that these laws have no legitimate purpose to exist.

Drew Lowell on March 7, 2012 at 12:40 PM

It wasn’t just in Ohio yesterday. In a different set of circumstances, it happened in Tennessee, too.

I think we can expect a lot more of these incidents.

Drew Lowell on March 7, 2012 at 12:49 PM

The question i never hear asked and thus not answered is why can we not put pictures on voter registration cards?

dunce on March 7, 2012 at 1:06 PM

Drew Lowell on March 7, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Please tell us where in this Portage County narrative there was any voter fraud?

Using a case of an alleged old vet who did not keep his documentation up to date, got angry when confronted, and refused to fill out a provisional ballot, and stormed out, using this sort of example to call for liberalization of voting laws is inane.

How about we prosecute to the fullest extent of the law each and every allegation of actual voter fraud, across all sates, all the time?

If a voter cannot present valid ID nor be bothered with keeping his/her voter registration current, why are we going out of the way to accommodate them? Extended absentee voting, same-day registration, provisional ballots and the like make fraud more easy.

coldwarrior on March 7, 2012 at 1:09 PM

Sounds like you are accidentally speaking the truth here: that “voter fraud” is so vanishingly rare that these laws have no legitimate purpose to exist.

Drew Lowell on March 7, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Phht. How many democratics didn’t cheat the vote because they are still trying to find a way around the new laws? How many democratics cheated the system via absentee votes, which is a huge hole in the process? How many democratics ended up registered to vote via Motor-Voter even though they are illegal aliens?

slickwillie2001 on March 7, 2012 at 1:09 PM

This is B.S. Ohio has and does over State ID cards for folks who do not have a license. They have for years and most states offer this as well. My father doesn’t drive anymore because of his age and received an ID Card in place of the license.

Egfrow on March 7, 2012 at 1:15 PM

The question i never hear asked and thus not answered is why can we not put pictures on voter registration cards?

Not a question of “can’t” but a question of “won’t” Just like requiring voter ID, it makes identification concrete and makes it more difficult for voter fraud to occur. A certain political party and its minions can’t have that happening.

hawkeye54 on March 7, 2012 at 1:16 PM

This is B.S. Ohio has and does over State ID cards for folks who do not have a license. They have for years and most states offer this as well. My father doesn’t drive anymore because of his age and received an ID Card in place of the license.

It IS BS. My mom had a friend take her to the DMV so she could get a valid state ID card to replace her DL when she gave up driving at age 82. In California the ID card is free, yes, free, for senior citizens, 62 or older and only $7 for low income residents and it is good for 10 years. SO there is no excuse for seniors of financial hardship. Only stupidity and/or attempting to promote an agenda prevents citizens from getting legal ID.

hawkeye54 on March 7, 2012 at 1:22 PM

The Democrats in Ohio have objected furiously to the new requirement for photo ID, so I am not surprised that they are playing this up. The Republicans reformed the process to close Jennifer Brunner’s loop-holes. The “victim” could have voted absentee or early at the Board of Elections until last Friday. I know because I voted Friday, since I was going to work the polls all day. The law specifically states that the license be valid. He had to be properly registered and listed in the Signature Book to be allowed to vote. The law specifically states that the ID show his current address. If he had brought a utility bill or a bank statement or document showing his address, he would have been allowed to vote. The printing on our electronic voting machines is large, but still includes a means of enlarging the printing, so he would not have had a problem with the screen. If he could not vote, it was not the fault of the poll workers. There are members of both parties at the tables confirming the voter’s eligibility to prevent the charge of discrimination. No tears should be shed over this “great injustice”.

FirelandsO3 on March 7, 2012 at 1:24 PM

If the overwhelming majority of people were not affected and only a few were, that points to the light burden that being required to have a valid ID actually is. There will always be the unlucky few, who for chance occurence or bad assumptions, will be denied the vote when they are, in fact, qualified to vote. That it occurs hardly means that voter ID laws are illegitimate.

I have had my drivers ID expire and not realize it until someone that I presented it to told me it was expired. As it was that was an ATT person who was changing my phone plan a bit and she used discretion and processed the change because if I had to come back later after renewing my ID, there was no assurance she would get the credit for the action.

The department where I work decided to issue an “ID” with my name, picture, and a serial number because of a security issue that crops up time to time, but nobody is otherwise required to have it unless similar issues crop up (like someone makes a threat or something). While I have never had to resort to it, I would not expect it to be accepted as “official ID” by any body else since I am sure a fair number of folks would have the laminating devices to emulate it. It is good enough for the purposes it was issued for. That’s all.

In almost any similar situation, you could probably find someone who did vote who shouldn’t, and another who could vote, but wasn’t allowed to. If you look hard enough. The equivalent during welfare reform would be welfare queens vs the desperately, hard working single mother.

If it really was a problem and even if it wasn’t, then the appropriate governmental department could put out a PSA, “Is your ID valid?” in the month or two leading up to the elections.

Russ808 on March 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM

Russ808 on March 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM

Nanny state much?

How about personal responsibility?

The legal citizen voter is responsible for keeping his/her voter registration and other documentation in order.

The illegal or unlawful, ineligible voter is responsible for not voting, nor trying to vote.

Which one should “government” spend dollars dealing with?

coldwarrior on March 7, 2012 at 1:42 PM

He’s a sympathetic character, but, it was his responsibility to make sure he was ready to vote.

My second year of college I strolled downstairs to vote (the polling place was my dorm) and discovered I wasn’t registered.

I had registered the previous year, but had failed to realize that when mail sent from the election board during the summer was “returned to sender” (since I wasn’t in the freshman dorm any more) that NY’s policy was to remove you from the voting rolls.

My quote wouldn’t have been as catchy, “I can take advantage of higher education in this country, but I can’t vote!??!” but the facts of the case would have been the same – I messed up and wasn’t able to vote.

Was NY’s attempt to keep their voter rolls up-to-date a secret plan to disenfranchise me? No more so than Ohio’s law was an attempt to disenfranchise the above mentioned veteran.

Each state has the right to set the voter eligibility rules as they see fit. Ohio has decided to require a particular type of ID for each voter. It is the voter’s responsibility to make sure that they have the correct ID. Simple as that.

JadeNYU on March 7, 2012 at 2:06 PM

So no suspicion in the article? Am I the only person who is a devout follower of cynicism and therefore am skeptical of everyone and everything? This sounds too perfect…so maybe it is?

Do other States not have a State ID in addition to Driver License? I understand the voting laws were just changed, so I’m aware this is higher chance of being real. Like you stated, he was offered a ballot…and made excuses.

Did he vote a year and a half ago? Could he read everything okay then? I’m suprised he didn’t ask for an absentee ballot, assuming that’s possible there; and since he does not drive anymore. There’s always issues with people voting, it’s a statistical near-fact. Hell, you can find a bag of votes up north and allow an SNL commie-dien into the Senate for a 60th vote. Obama’s folks can block Hillary’s voters in order to win.

There’s so much scumbaggery that my sympathy level for a good law, that has a hitch in it, is staggeringly low.

John Kettlewell on March 7, 2012 at 2:33 PM

Those who have said this here are right: the vet was responsible to ensure he was ready to vote.

I also just looked through the Ohio legislation on this, and it appears to me that his expired driver’s license should have been accepted. The law specifically says that an expired license is to be accepted if it expired after the last general election. Clearly, a license that expired in January 2012 meets that requirement.

If the bill as marked up and voted on according to the Ohio legislature site (Bill 159) is the one in effect now, the expired license should have been accepted. That means the pollworker made a mistake; it doesn’t mean the law kept this vet from voting.

J.E. Dyer on March 7, 2012 at 2:34 PM

I also just looked through the Ohio legislation on this, and it appears to me that his expired driver’s license should have been accepted. The law specifically says that an expired license is to be accepted if it expired after the last general election. Clearly, a license that expired in January 2012 meets that requirement.

If the bill as marked up and voted on according to the Ohio legislature site (Bill 159) is the one in effect now, the expired license should have been accepted. That means the pollworker made a mistake; it doesn’t mean the law kept this vet from voting.

J.E. Dyer on March 7, 2012 at 2:34 PM

thank you for actually digging, god forbid we get below the surface of anything anymore

John Kettlewell on March 7, 2012 at 2:35 PM

thank you for actually digging, god forbid we get below the surface of anything anymore

John Kettlewell on March 7, 2012 at 2:35 PM

I meant to include the link on this:

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=129_HB_159

The main item at this link is the mark-up language, but there is a link to the full text of the bill on the left side of the page.

J.E. Dyer on March 7, 2012 at 2:49 PM

He didn’t have his glasses to read a provisional ballot? How was he going to fill out the original ballot?

pugsly on March 7, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Perhaps idiots should not be allowed to vote. Colorado issues ID cards as well as Driver’s Licenses. So he could have gotten an ID card from the DMV. Why not? Was this staged?

federale86 on March 7, 2012 at 3:45 PM

I filled out a provisional ballot in the last election here in Columbus. Not rocket science, just name, address, etc. I was assisted by a poll worker who also advised me she would help me fill it out if needed. Most of the paperwork involved was done by the poll worker – took maybe 15 minutes, I voted and all was well.
Yesterday, there was a poll worker who was assisting a blind gentleman cast his ballot. There is help at the polls if you want it.You can vote with a provisional ballot even if you have no ID, no eyes, or no hands to touch the screens. They didn’t turn him away-he chose not to vote provisionally.

This is a set-up bunch of BS. I wonder how long it took the opposition to find a willing victim of the voter ID law?

ohiochili on March 7, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Strict ID laws will prevent a lot of old people from voting. Period.

If that’s fine with you, and you believe anyone who can’t meet the requirements is stupid or illegal, than you can go to h*ll.

MaggiePoo on March 7, 2012 at 3:49 PM

I posted in another discussion that, when I went to vote in Ohio yesterday and showed the registrar my Federal government ID, she refused it because it did not have my home address. I then dug out my state drivers license and she accepted it, but warned me that it expires before the Fall election and I would need a current drivers license to vote. I wanted to kiss her for being so responsible.

My Dad was a WW2 vet, who no longer drove. He used this strange and rare method of voting called, “absentee ballot” or something like that. He could have replaced his drivers license with a state ID card at any license bureau. These are simple things that are quickly accomplished. (Where I live, the lines move well at the DMV).

Ohio did not stumble. The registrar did exactly the right thing. If other states followed Ohio’s practice, we’d all have honest elections wherein the occupants of cemetaries are properly disenfranchised.

If Chicago followed Ohio’s practice, Obama would still be misleading students at Harvard.

Cricket624 on March 7, 2012 at 4:06 PM

If the bill as marked up and voted on according to the Ohio legislature site (Bill 159) is the one in effect now, the expired license should have been accepted. That means the pollworker made a mistake; it doesn’t mean the law kept this vet from voting.

159 did not pass. It remains in the House. The last action taken on it was in committee (the edits you see), completed on 23 March 2011

Pollworker is right.

Cricket624 on March 7, 2012 at 4:12 PM

In Virginia, getting photoID is pretty difficult for many people but it’s not required for voting. The legislature tried several times to pass a voterID law last year, but failed. If you can register to vote (which doesn’t require photoID either if you have proof of residence) your registration card is sufficient.

MaggiePoo on March 7, 2012 at 4:16 PM

I had a rough time getting through the gate at the airport with my minor niece because of an expired driver’s license.

To my way of thinking an expired license should still be valid ID except for _driving_. It shows, my picture, my address, etc.

They weren’t willing to take my concealed carry permit as ID either until I pointed out that their requirement was for a government issued ID and my CCW was such a beast.

Of course, so was my expired driver’s license.

I should dig up my old LCB card that let me drink alcohol back in the day before driver’s licenses had photos. It never expires and it does show my photo and name.

jtdavies on March 7, 2012 at 4:36 PM

Give me a break.

He was offered a provisional ballot. He refused it. Case closed.

If he couldn’t read the provisional ballot without his glasses how could he read the actual one?

MadJayhawk on March 7, 2012 at 4:40 PM

Strict ID laws will prevent a lot of old people from voting. Period.

If that’s fine with you, and you believe anyone who can’t meet the requirements is stupid or illegal, than you can go to h*ll.

MaggiePoo on March 7, 2012 at 3:49 PM

No, I don’t think that. However, I think that if the man really wanted to vote instead of complain to the nearest news source, he could have. It’s my opinion that he was outraged that he couldn’t vote like he always had, which is not the case. He just had to cast a provisional ballot. Print to small? Ask if anyone has a spare pair of reading glasses. Maybe Ohio is different, but most of the poll workers in MD are of the age that reading glasses are a necessity. I also don’t think the man followed the 7-Ps (Proper Prior Planning Prevents P-poor Performance) to get ready for something he’d never done before (vote without a valid ID with his address). I’m sorry the man didn’t get to vote, but do you have any better ideas about controlling the right to vote to actual citizens besides complaining about it?

RedinPDRM on March 7, 2012 at 4:54 PM

Using a provisional ballot is not a guaranty that your vote will count. I’m not saying that he, specifically, will not be able to have his count, but many older people have a hard time getting photoID–the DMV doesn’t hand them out like candy, they have requirements too–and depending on the specific laws where you live, this can be a problem for them.

MaggiePoo on March 7, 2012 at 5:02 PM

I’m a Vietnam Veteran, live in Ohio, voted in the primary. I was glad the poll worker asked for my driver’s license. There are many evil zombies, mostly democrats, who seem to arise from the dead on every election day. I was also glad I bought my glasses, because without my glasses I could not read the ballot. So this vet can get to the polls, but won’t or can’t fill our a provisional because of no lost glasses. WTF? How could he read the ballot?
Love ya, SgtPete

SgtPete on March 7, 2012 at 5:04 PM

I’m sorry the man didn’t get to vote, but do you have any better ideas about controlling the right to vote to actual citizens besides complaining about it?

RedinPDRM on March 7, 2012 at 4:54 PM

Seems to me you’re the one complaining because of the fear of non-citizens voting. I agree to a certain extent, but not enough to make it harder or actually prevent many old people from voting. Perhaps a copy of a social security statement could substitute if your over 65 or something?

MaggiePoo on March 7, 2012 at 5:14 PM

“…complaining because of the fear of non-citizens voting.”

Fear?

Really?

Why should non-citizens be able to vote at all?

Seems that once that door is opened we cease to be a republic with a representative system of government and become just another speed bump in the road.

Fear?

Not fear at all among the apparently dwindling rational remnants of our population, but a desire to exercise all due diligence to ensure that only those fully qualified under our Constitution are afforded the privilege of voting for our local, state and national leaders.

coldwarrior on March 7, 2012 at 5:30 PM

The poll workers are there to assist any person who has problems; that is part of their job. We had elderly come in who had no difficulty voting according to the existing rules. All of us there were over sixty. He could have voted early, and discovered his problem when it could still be resolved. The fault was entirely his.

FirelandsO3 on March 7, 2012 at 5:30 PM

It wasn’t just in Ohio yesterday. In a different set of circumstances, it happened in Tennessee, too.

This case had nothing to do with Voter ID Laws in Tennessee.

A former Democratic Congressman tried to illegally vote when he was already registered in a nearby county a couple of miles from his home. He did not ask for or demand a provisional ballot.

Democrats are screaming voter suppression about this when it is obvious that he suppressed his vote all by himself. Like the dude in Ohio.

Democrats, like this congressman, seem to think it is fine to register and vote in multiple locations.

Why he, a Democrat, was trying to vote in Republican primary is an obvious question that the reporter did not ask the congressman.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120306/NEWS02/303060082

MadJayhawk on March 7, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Free ID has to be part of voter ID. Ideally it should be a totally distinct ID card. Not the driver’s license because they’ve been giving those to illegals and I think non-citizen legal residents can get them as well. So we need an actual voter ID card and to avoid the poll tax argument it has to be free.

Karmashock on March 7, 2012 at 7:23 PM

One suggestion I just heard recently was to make an offer of a free, valid photo ID part of the voter registration process.

Who will issue the ID? What kind of accountability will be put in place to insure that only citizens get those IDs and not illegal or other immigrants?

astonerii on March 7, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Require full hand prints and photo with the provision that the data will be entered into the law enforcement data base.

Slowburn on March 8, 2012 at 1:33 AM

II should have added “And run against any prints available in unsolved crimes.”

Slowburn on March 8, 2012 at 1:38 AM

Sympathic indeed, but he could have saved himself the trip and the driver and the rejection by simply requesting an Ohio absentee ballot, on which he could have included for identification purposes just the last four digits of his Social Security card.

TxTea on March 8, 2012 at 2:51 AM

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