Great news: Most annoying character on “The Walking Dead” now dead

posted at 8:17 pm on March 5, 2012 by Allahpundit

I made the title of the post ambiguous in case any readers Tivo’d it and haven’t watched yet, but c’mon. We all know who I’m talking about. Realistically, it could only be one of two people: Either Sophia’s mopey mom, whose name I still don’t know, or that endlessly whining bleeding heart Dale. (Alas, the screencap AMC chose for the clip embedded below gives it away.) Now that some of the dead weight is being shed, I take it poor underused T-Dog is next. Or maybe Herschel’s other daughter, who tried to kill herself a few episodes ago? As with Sophia, until that plotline unspooled, I had no idea that character even existed. I wonder which barely-there member of the ensemble will be next to be suddenly thrust to center stage in the expectation that anyone watching cares a whit about them.

Incidentally, the kill scene here is dumb on several levels. How did Dale not hear it coming in the still of the night? These things growl constantly every time they’re onscreen, which isn’t often. How did the zombie disembowel him with his bare hands? (Admittedly, that’s happened in Romero movies too.) Tacking it on at the end right after the big dramatic climax with the prisoner made it feel random and haphazard, a zombie ex machina to get rid of the character before people start tuning out in sheer irritation at his do-good-ism. Then again, all’s well that ends well — and this certainly ended well. And in fairness, they did a brilliant job with the scene of Rick’s son tossing rocks at the zombie stuck in the mud. For all the grating soap-opera melodrama, there are sporadic flashes of genius in how the show captures the pathos of the zombies’ predicament. The scene of that zombie snarling from the end of a noose was the best thing about the first half of this season. Having little Carl amuse himself by humiliating a zombie who’s helpless in front of him was a more affecting moment of dehumanization than the entire Shane storyline. More of that and fewer weepy “here’s mah pappy’s timepiece” exchanges between Glenn and Herschel, please.


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What happens when zombies make a fresh kill? Do they go back into lurk mode and wait for more victims to show up? NO! They squat down and eat, and eat, and eat!

There was no excuse for Dale to be taken by surprise by the cow-killng zombie. If Otis was good enough to allow Shane to escape, the cow should’ve been good enough to warn Dale.

Not that the show won’t be better now that mopey Dale is gone…I just have a problem with the method.

James on March 5, 2012 at 9:07 PM

You missed the scene where that zombie saw Dale coming and got up from the cow and he tiptoed Pee Wee Herman style behind a big Oak tree and waited for Dale and then attacked. /

CW on March 5, 2012 at 9:21 PM

Im still wondering what it meant when they seen the walkers who didnt have bite marks.

Politricks on March 5, 2012 at 8:32 PM

Spoiler alert……

Shane shanked a walker with his knife, later on in the bus he cut open his hand with same knife.
Shane infected himself…He’s next to go.

Sorry, you asked.

I thought it means that everyone is already infected and anyone that dies will come back as a zombie – regardless of being bitten.

VengeanceIsMine on March 5, 2012 at 9:22 PM

Dale’s death in the original comic is FAR more pleasing than his small screen demise.

Vincenzo on March 5, 2012 at 9:24 PM

I thought it means that everyone is already infected and anyone that dies will come back as a zombie – regardless of being bitten.

VengeanceIsMine on March 5, 2012 at 9:22 PM

Spoiler!

Vincenzo on March 5, 2012 at 9:29 PM

Allahpundit, you still don’t seem to understand or appreciate that this show is precisely about the drama between the human survivors (the title The Walking Dead is a reference to them, not the zombies).

The guys who created the comics/show have explained time and again that they aren’t so much interested in zombie action as they were in exploring what happens to the survivors, how people turn on each other, or help one another in the aftermath. The zombies are just a backdrop.

The show is not supposed to be a Romero type movie with non stop violence and action.

If it were, you would not care either if a character gets killed off. You at least care enough about Dale getting killed to have an opinion about it.

At times, the Dale character’s constant “do goodism” could get a little grating or annoying, but I liked him and was sad to see him go.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Vincenzo on March 5, 2012 at 9:24 PM

Do tell.

cozmo on March 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Love this show.

I hated Shane recently until this episode.

But he made it clear he’s just putting up a tough guise.

blatantblue on March 5, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Do tell.

Spoiler alert….
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Dale is attacked by a zombie and bitten in the leg. They amputate his leg right away to save him. He’s then stuck in a wheel chair. Also, a rival group turns to cannibalism and eats Dale. While they are eating him, Dale laughs away and lets them know he is infected. The joke is on the cannibals!

Vincenzo on March 5, 2012 at 9:32 PM

Vincenzo on March 5, 2012 at 9:32 PM

Dang, that would have been good.

Thanks.

cozmo on March 5, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Dang, that would have been good.

Thanks.

cozmo on March 5, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Yes, it would have. But the show has really taken a different turn from the comic.

Vincenzo on March 5, 2012 at 9:34 PM

I don’t think Dale was liberal. He was the only one left with a principled stand for the dignity of human life. The rest consider everyone expendable if they do not fit in with the plan.

philoquin on March 5, 2012 at 8:29 PM

Yeah, that’s kind of how I saw it too.

Dale could be a little annoying at times, but I was on his side in that debate about whether to execute that kid or not.

The kid may turn out to be guilty and a dirt ball, but it was kind of disturbing at how fast and easily everyone but Dale was ready to shoot the kid in the head for a misdeed he had not even done yet (the group was afraid he’d run off to his group and lead them back to the farm to kill everyone).

That one lady (Carol) seemed apathetic about the kid being killed which was also disturbing (but then her daughter recently died, so maybe that explains that).

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:36 PM

I thought it means that everyone is already infected and anyone that dies will come back as a zombie – regardless of being bitten.

VengeanceIsMine on March 5, 2012 at 9:22 PM

Well after offing how many walkers so far, they all of a sudden decied to examine the bodies and notice, (on two fully dressed corpses) that “they were not bit”. Scratches/cuts on the face and arm where the only wounds. In the same episode, Rick cuts his finger to lure the walker to the fence. Later, Shane (post kill) cuts open his hand to do the same thing?

Shane is next…book it.

MaxSplinters on March 5, 2012 at 9:39 PM

Dead Hand Control, that’s not the only fli-flop from nowhere! How about Hershel all of a sudden deciding he likes Glen so much for his daughter that he gives him his watch?

…So, two flip-flops that make no sense.

Alana on March 5, 2012 at 8:37 PM

Actually the flip flop that got me was Herschel’s unwillingness to defend the kid prisoner. Dale came to him and asked for his input and help, but he kept saying, “I want no part of it, I’m leaving it up to Rick.” This was a guy who previously was very adamant about not killing the walkers in his barn.

How does someone go from being so very pro life to not caring if an actual living being gets his head blown off (even if he wants to ensure his daughters remain safe from any possible violence by the kid’s gang)? I didn’t completely buy into his quick conviction turn around on that.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:42 PM

T Dog hasn’t had a word to say in AGES. If they are only saving him to confront the (stereotypical, southern racist horror) Meryl, then they really are racist. Aren’t they. Huh.

Alana on March 5, 2012 at 8:40 PM

“Meryl,” as in Meryl Streep? LOL. I think it’s spelled Merle or maybe Merl.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:45 PM

Personally, I think they should all die now and we follow another group. I don’t like any of the remaining people. Follow another group, then we can have a good show.

philoquin on March 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

I like Daryl and Rick.

I think that the Shane character is a sociopathic jerk, but he’s an interesting character, since he creates tension on the show.

Carol is kind of dull right now, but if they develop her, have her go from a weak, abused wife and mourning mom to someone who starts killing zombies, watching her evolve might be interesting.

They haven’t given T-Dog much of anything to do in the last several episodes.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:46 PM

Who is the least annoying character?

CW on March 5, 2012 at 9:46 PM

SPOILER ALERT!

The Hort on March 5, 2012 at 9:50 PM

Who is the least annoying character?

CW on March 5, 2012 at 9:46 PM

My two favorite characters are Rick and Daryl, so I vote for them.

Glenn has a lot of fans. I see people talking favorably about him on other sites.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

Season 1: TWD…..The Walking Dead.

Season 2: TWD…..The Walking Drama.

Just can’t watch any more.

SFTech on March 5, 2012 at 9:52 PM

I saw the spoiler blog for WD.

Its going to be a great great episode.

Someone major gets their contract ended next. Someone REALLY major.

Never saw it coming like this goes down. Really.

JP1986UM on March 5, 2012 at 9:52 PM

I’m ready for the real terror of the post apocalyptic world. Defending it from humans who didn’t have any humanity to start with…like people from Philadelphia.

cozmo on March 5, 2012 at 9:12 PM

Yeah, that’s what I think. I love zombie films, but it doesn’t bother me to watch a show that focuses more on the human vs human drama than human vs zombie.

The dirt bags Rick and Glenn met at the bar, the guys from Philadelphia, (and we later find out the Philly group rapes teen girls they find along the way in the apocalypse – the prisoner kid admitted that fact to Daryl) is, in many ways, a lot more scary to me than the zombies.

We also see Shane thinking about killing Rick almost every episode because they can’t agree on how to handle the end of the world, and these two guys are supposed to be best friends.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:56 PM

I am enjoying this story immensely, including the Talking Dead panel discussion that follows each episode.

Everyone is weepy about Carl, who is the least lovable kid I have seen in a long time. Give the producers credit for developing a non lovable kid. Sometimes, I hope a zombie eats him so I wont have to see the cowboy hat anymore

Too bad they lost Dale. What a great actor. They gutted the guy who would have let everyone out of Gitmo. Someone will take on the mantle

Herschel is so well portrayed, I assumed the accent was authentic. I have neighbors from a specific region in the south, and it is not just accent, but tone, and body language just impeccably well done. Please dont let them eat Heschel. I await his every reaction

A lot of the show is dumb, but it is a refreshing step above the debates in Congress. Zombies only kill you once

entagor on March 5, 2012 at 10:01 PM

I forgot this show was still on television — snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

meh

FlatFoot on March 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM

The laziness and mediocrity of the writing on this show has reached a tipping point. It’s gotten to the point where almost every single action by every character is implausible and unrealistic. This has been noted by commenters above.

The following from last night are all laughably implausible: Carl wanders off into the woods, there’s any great drama about the kid Randall (they’d just shackle/guard him and put him to work), Dale goes off alone at night to check out a noise, is surprised by a walker in the middle of an open field (the zombie is inexplicably wandering around instead of feeding on his kill, the cow), then the walker hilariously develops super-human strength enabling him to eviscerate Dale with his bare hands (one hand)- WTF? None of this fits into the framework the show itself has established. (The zombies are portrayed as very weak and uncoordinated, yet somehow one so weak he’s stuck in shallow mud magically becomes the Terminator? One is embarrassed for the writers and director here)

One laughably wrenching inconsistency is that last week they were going to set the kid free at a local junior high school, where they’d have no idea whether he would return to his gang. Yet when they bring him back to the farm, where they will have 100% control or his actions, they suddenly have to kill him? WTF? Makes no sense at all.

As noted above by someone else, the script is so unintelligently written that the group is constantly reminding viewers of that fact: they fret over provisions yet never mount serious expeditions in a country that is theirs to loot at their leisure; they fret over firearms as the sound attracts walkers, yet in a world without laws or restraints they don’t get suppressors or improvise same; there’s no physical protection for the farm, and apparently no night-watches, yet walkers never happen to wander in. There’s almost nothing plausible about anything any more – and no, the discount soap opera crap between the characters doesn’t make up for the silly lack of consistency or realism.

I have this on in the background and it makes up one hour of my weekly 3 hours or so of TV.

It’s no secret that there’s not a whole lot of creative talent in the TV or movie business any more, and this show is a dramatic example. Decent acting but silly story lines suitable for an NPR listener but nobody above that intellectual level.

IceCold on March 5, 2012 at 10:05 PM

How does someone go from being so very pro life to not caring if an actual living being gets his head blown off (even if he wants to ensure his daughters remain safe from any possible violence by the kid’s gang)? I didn’t completely buy into his quick conviction turn around on that.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:42 PM

You’re right. That, too.

Alana on March 5, 2012 at 10:07 PM

So Shane is dead? Cool!

jackal40 on March 5, 2012 at 10:09 PM

“Meryl,” as in Meryl Streep? LOL. I think it’s spelled Merle or maybe Merl.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:45 PM

Hey, you’re lucky I can even approximate their names! I’ve never been good at remembering groups of adults’ names. (Though I can remember the name of every kid in a group.)

It’s taken me all this time to even learn any of them.

Alana on March 5, 2012 at 10:11 PM

The thing that bothered me about Dale’s demise, being the group’s “supposed” voice of reason, and conscience. He did not see fit to grant his “liberator” (killer?) absolution. He must have known he was a goner, torn to shreds and in great pain….A simple nod in the affirmative.

MaxSplinters on March 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Dale goes off alone at night to check out a noise, is surprised by a walker in the middle of an open field (the zombie is inexplicably wandering around instead of feeding on his kill, the cow), then the walker hilariously develops super-human strength enabling him to eviscerate Dale with his bare hands (one hand)-

IceCold on March 5, 2012 at 10:05 PM

I watched an interview with some of the show’s people (the writers or whomever), and one explained that the walker who attacked Dale was fairly decomposed.

He said the writers envisioned that the bones at the zombie’s fingertips were protruding, making it easier for him to rip open Dale, the way he ripped open the cow previously.

Instantly reminding viewers of that fact: they fret over provisions yet never mount serious expeditions in a country that is theirs to loot at their leisure…

..there’s no physical protection for the farm, and apparently no night-watches, yet walkers never happen to wander in. There’s almost nothing plausible about anything any more

About stationing guards around the property.

Andrea, Glenn, and Dale would sit on top of the RV while on the farm and keep look out for walkers.

I don’t know if we expressly needed shots of them taken at night on top of the RV to show us they were doing it at night too.

When they found out walkers were in the barn, Shane asked Andrea to serve as look out at the barn, so she did.

My understanding is that the farm area was largely free of walkers because they were out of town – the hordes of zombies from the big city had not yet reached the town by the farm.

The farther out you get from the big cities, the fewer walkers there are. That was one of the reasons Rick wanted Hershel to let them stay on the property to start with.

They’ve shown that the longer this goes on, more and more walkers are wandering towards the outlying areas, they’re now more of them in the small town by the farm.

Some of the zombies form herds and migrate (recall the episode where a herd of zombies were on the high way and they all had to hid beneath cars).

I think I heard one of the show’s people explain it that way, that the longer the group stays on the farm, the more and ore zombie will start showing up there.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM

The thing that bothered me about Dale’s demise, being the group’s “supposed” voice of reason, and conscience. He did not see fit to grant his “liberator” (killer?) absolution. He must have known he was a goner, torn to shreds and in great pain….A simple nod in the affirmative.

MaxSplinters on March 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

That kind of bothered me too, but I did see an interview where someone mentioned that when Daryl lowers the gun,that Dale moves his head up, to put his forehead on it.

Still, it kind of made me uneasy that Dale did not beg to be put out of his misery, but Rick immediately puts the gun to his head, then Daryl. I guess you could argue that Dale was in too much pain to string a sentence together, but it still bothered me it wasn’t more explicit that he wanted them to end his life.

Hey, you’re lucky I can even approximate their names! I’ve never been good at remembering groups of adults’ names. (Though I can remember the name of every kid in a group.)

It’s taken me all this time to even learn any of them.

Alana on March 5, 2012 at 10:11 PM

I like your name for him better than the show’s name, calling a big, tough guy like him “Meryl” is funny. :o)

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

I guess this means Randall (the kid from the other group) is going to be a regular now . . . after all, they have a spot open on the farm for him, where it was all booked up before according to Rick.

Ryan Anthony on March 5, 2012 at 10:30 PM

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

I agree about the scene with them putting Dale out of his misery and I doubt he would have agreed with Rick’s decision. I just don’t think it goes with his character.

CW on March 5, 2012 at 10:40 PM

One zombie the whole episode.

freedomplow on March 5, 2012 at 10:48 PM

My vote for most annoying character has to be Ricks wife, I can’t even remember her name right now. It’s really getting hard to continue watching this soap opera. However it is curing my insomnia.

ironranger on March 5, 2012 at 10:50 PM

Eight words.

**Beware, above link might be safe for work, but not if you have deadlines to meet anytime soon. The mental gravity of that site is the equivalent of an intellectual black hole, you can’t escape, your only chance is to go through to the other side.

Freelancer on March 5, 2012 at 10:50 PM

I agree about the scene with them putting Dale out of his misery and I doubt he would have agreed with Rick’s decision. I just don’t think it goes with his character.

CW on March 5, 2012 at 10:40 PM

I watched that episode and the repeat of it, and I didn’t notice Dale putting his head up to Daryl’s gun until I read about it or heard it on that talk show about it, then when the show ran again that night, I paid close attention.

If you watch closely, he does seem to put his head up to the gun, but they didn’t make it clear enough, not for my taste.

If you’re going to shoot a guy in the head to alleviate his pain, I would think you would want to make dang, absolute sure that’s what he wanted, so I don’t know why they didn’t ask him to at least nod his head “yes” if he wanted to be shot. But nobody asked him.

On the other hand, there was nothing they could do for the guy, their only alternative was to let him bleed out or whatever and sit there in agony in that field.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 11:07 PM

This guy was really the only true conservative of the group, now he’s dead

sadsushi on March 5, 2012 at 8:26 PM

I had to chew on that one for a minute, but sadsushi’s right.

Tomolena1 on March 5, 2012 at 11:09 PM

Ugh, I hate TV. We had a family get together last night to celebrate several birthdays, and the guys were trying to watch The Walking Dead. My mother made them turn it off because my young niece was in the room (my mom probably didn’t want to see it either). Then my sister said she had to leave so that she could watch Once Upon a Time.

So now everyone is rushing off to watch “their” show instead of spending time together.

We have a family cabin in the mountains. When I was a kid, we didn’t have a TV or phone there. Now, we have a big screen TV, DVD player, video games, etc. So instead of card and board games, everyone watches TV or a movie.

The idiot box is on constantly and we wonder why more than half of the people in this country are ignorant and uninformed.

Common Sense on March 5, 2012 at 11:13 PM

The idiot box is on constantly and we wonder why more than half of the people in this country are ignorant and uninformed.
Common Sense on March 5, 2012 at 11:13 PM

I do have the TV on a lot myself, but as background noise when I’m on the computer. “The Walking Dead” is one of the few shows I really like and make a point of watching each week.

I also like “The Killing,” which is supposed to come on again in the next two months.

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Overall this season is much better than the first.

No, I don’t think so.
The reason many people kept watching the shows S 2, because season 1 was very entertaining.
But at the end of S 1, the director of the show quit (as it was written on AMC site).
So, S 2 has been written and directed by other people, that is why the show sucks so much now, has lost its edge and uniqueness, and indeed has turned to be a preachy lefty silly soap opera.
But the last Ep. was sorta OK.
Ricks wife as well as the kid Carl definitely need to be eaten, nobody likes them, perhaps even zombies avoid them.
And that Andreas character is quite awful too.

magone on March 5, 2012 at 11:24 PM

I can’t stand Rick’s wife, she’s unintuitive and sappy. I had hoped she died in the car crash. Maybe if she got naked I would appreciate her.

I like Maggie, she seems to have sense, and acts with a purpose. Glen is a good match.

I like the redneck, he’s an ass, but he does what’s right, and what needs to be done.

Rick is good as the leader, trying to keep the group together.

I used to despise Andrea, but now she isn’t so bad. She seems to have gotten past suicide and is becoming useful, instead of whining all the time.

The real problem is there are too many characters, and the series never really allows them to develop, they just kind of scatter-shot all of them every episode. They should focus on a few of them each episode and allow the audience time to get to know them. The series seems like a bunch of cameos strung together each week.

Rode Werk on March 5, 2012 at 11:39 PM

TigerPaw on March 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Yeah but most of these characters really suck. They’re some of the most inauthentic, one dimensional, and predictably stupid people I have seen in a show. It’s gotten a little better since the mid season break, but it’s the zombies that keep me interested in this show. I’ll watch through this season but depending on how things end up, I may just be done with this show.

Also, the writers must all be white upper class suburbanites from Connecticut or Northern California who have zero idea what people from Georgia, or a black American, believe in and how they view the world. Daryl is the best character in the show but portrayed rather viciously as a red neck stereotype. Every single character in this show seems to be an atheist with exception of the grieving mother who comes across as yet another mean spirited stereotype; remember, this is GEORGIA we are talking about. Andrea apparently was a civil rights lawyer (ACLU I imagine, but I doubt these writers will explore the hypocrisy of her behavior in a savage world compared to a civil world because that would mean poking fun at the naivete of left wing moral relativists) and Rick’s wife apparently hated the Death Penalty before the zombie outbreak. The in-authenticity of the characters really bothers me but I was able to put up with it in the first season because they were constantly on the move and doing something.

I want a diverse cast of characters, but when you’re using folks from Georgia that means the secularists, gun grabbers and politically correct type are the minority. Even if this show were appropriately taking place in Northern California though, the characters would still be a disappointment because they are so one dimensional and make the stupidest decisions.

Anyways, I want to see Andrea die next, she just gets on my nerves and I also want Rick’s kid to get knocked off because he really comes across as a brat and was responsible for Dale getting killed. I actually like T-dog, but the writers clearly have no idea what to do with him other than have him go off on some weird racial rant when he was sick.

As for Dale, I didn’t mind Dale. He stood up to Shane and that took guts. He might have reminded me of a liberal college professor, but he actually came across as authentic to me and was one of the more useful people in the group – though that’s not saying much.

Daemonocracy on March 5, 2012 at 11:40 PM

They blindfolded Randall so as not to let him know where the farm was. Since he didn’t know anything, they could let him go. However, at the school Randall admitted he knew Maggie because he went to the same school as her. He knew where the farm was after all. That’s why they couldn’t leave him behind. That’s why they wanted to kill him. If he is let go he could lead his friends to the farm.

hadsil on March 5, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Anyways, I want to see Andrea die next, she just gets on my nerves and I also want Rick’s kid to get knocked off because he really comes across as a brat and was responsible for Dale getting killed.
Daemonocracy on March 5,

True, that!
The kid should have died when he had the opportunity,
and that Ricks wife is one insufferable bi-otch to no end. What an horrible actress and a horrible character.

can’t stand Rick’s wife, she’s unintuitive and sappy. I had hoped she died in the car crash. Maybe if she got naked I would appreciate her.

true, but I dont believe there would be any beauty to be found in her bony body even while nekkid. :(

magone on March 5, 2012 at 11:53 PM

magone on March 5, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Had the writers actually been talented and not so biased and one sided in their world view, that scene where they are arguing with Dale about whether to kill the hostage or not could have been one entire episode reminiscent of Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men. Of course, you have to be talented to achieve something like that.

Not one person brought up a well reasoned point one way or the other, even Dale failed to make his case and pleaded to keep the hostage alive because he felt it was wrong to kill him. It doesn’t matter how you feel, make your case and back it up, invoke God as the check and balance to man’s conscience (oops, nobody believes him on this show based in Georgia), make a rational case why keeping him could help the group and explain exactly what information you would try to get out of him and how you would make him prove himself (like giving us the probable location of the gang he i traveling with); that discussion could have been something great but was wasted. Dale made one good point about the hostage being condemned for a crime he has not yet committed, but nothing was further explored. Why would Rick save a guy just to kill him later? I wanted to hear different arguments for each side, some rational and some emotional, but that whole scene was a bust.

Daemonocracy on March 5, 2012 at 11:57 PM

There have been some implausible actions in the scripts all along. Even Sofia’s getting lost: fat chance every kid hasn’t been triple-drilled on a emergency plan which would definitely not involve taking off into the woods when a small group of walkers shows up. And the Dale exit sequence makes no sense.

Neither did his argument, though. The danger was real, they already had the evidence of the guys in the bar and street, and Randall’s confession of the gang rapes. They aren’t living under due process anymore, it’s martial law now.

But it is easy to see how some who want more mindless zombie action and splatter are disappointed, as would be those expecting a more faithful interpretation of the original as if this stuff is actually some sort of art.

Adjoran on March 6, 2012 at 12:02 AM

@Daemonocracy 11:40pm, no matter what forum I read, if there is a TWD thread your sentiments are echoed.

roy_batty on March 6, 2012 at 12:06 AM

They blindfolded Randall so as not to let him know where the farm was. Since he didn’t know anything, they could let him go. However, at the school Randall admitted he knew Maggie because he went to the same school as her. He knew where the farm was after all. That’s why they couldn’t leave him behind. That’s why they wanted to kill him. If he is let go he could lead his friends to the farm.

hadsil on March 5, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Have Randall lead the Rick, Shane, Daryl and anyone else who can shoot to them. The Farm is compromised either way, they were already attacked by two members in the group at the bar and attacked again by a few more later, Randall was left for dead by the very people who “took him in” and Randall confessed to a gang rape they committed on two teen girls in front of their fathers eyes. That’s enough for me to eliminate the threats one by one.

Daemonocracy on March 6, 2012 at 12:07 AM

Had the writers actually been talented and not so biased and one sided in their world view,

Well, right, but there were some good ones in Season 1.
Was a grate show.

That’s enough for me to eliminate the threats one by one.
Daemonocracy on March 6,

Yes, absolutely!

magone on March 6, 2012 at 12:16 AM

OK – help me out with this. Some have suggested that Dale is liberal, and some say he is conservative. I’m interested in the opinion at HA. I say he is a liberal because, well, first of all, gun grabber (but most of them had a hand in that). Second, because he argued to not kill that guy.

Some people have said that this respect for life is conservative. I think the decision to kill the dude is conservative – here’s why: I think respect for life cannot always be absolute and sometimes external conditions come in to play, under extreme circumstances. I think a very good summary of conservative vs. liberal is that conservatives attempt to live in the world that is, and accept that humans are flawed, and liberals seek to live in the world that they wish it was.

That dude represented a threat, and if they let him go it *COULD* lead to the rape and death of everyone at the farm. In today’s world such a situation wouldn’t really arise, but in zombie apocalypse? Sorry, but life is much harder and cheaper, yours and everyone else’e, and everyone would have to make all sorts of stark choices to survive.

Killing that guy was conservative. Dale was being all Utopian, just like a liberal.

AmI right? Am I wrong?

kjl291 on March 6, 2012 at 12:17 AM

AmI right? Am I wrong?

kjl291

_____________________________

Perhaps, you are right.

Same time- about the killing thing: when the concentration camps were liberated, the liberators would shoot the guys who just had the wrong uniforms on, no matter if they were anything to do with the conc. camp, or- where their location was at the camp.
Just soldiers being in the hospital at the camp etc.
Even with the ,,hands up”, they were shoot to death. Many, plenty of them.
Was no need for that.

magone on March 6, 2012 at 12:30 AM

I must be twisted, because I was all like up twinkles when Dale got caught slippin’.

Gang-of-One on March 6, 2012 at 12:47 AM

As noted above by someone else, the script is so unintelligently written that the group is constantly reminding viewers of that fact: they fret over provisions yet never mount serious expeditions in a country that is theirs to loot at their leisure; they fret over firearms as the sound attracts walkers, yet in a world without laws or restraints they don’t get suppressors or improvise same; there’s no physical protection for the farm, and apparently no night-watches, yet walkers never happen to wander in. There’s almost nothing plausible about anything any more – and no, the discount soap opera crap between the characters doesn’t make up for the silly lack of consistency or realism.

As a gun guy, there are so many details that suck in this season. Special effects people have fallen in love with the “click” of safeties being pushed off on Glocks (Which don’t have safeties). Rick fails to reload after shooting the two boys from Philly, NO ONE has an AR-15 and a ACOG, no expeditions to the local guns stores, yet Andrea is fretting about low ammo. Guns seem to have endless ammo in the shooting at the Barn (I counted over 20 from Shane’s gun alone). Carl running off with a Browning automatic when he has his own gun (a 38 revolver) that Shane is just itching to shove in his hand and my biggest pet peeve, they have shovels, wood and heavy equipment but NO has built any sort of stockade or off the ground sleeping platforms, knowledge if which has been around since the Greeks?? WTF!! How many here would want to sleep on the ground in the tents with the simple Night watch they have set up???

As to the prisoner, he is a criminal spy. Shooting him would be easy. This is a lifeboat survival situation. Even if he was picked up by another group (not the group with the heavy machine-guns) he would trade the knowledge of a safe place with good water for a can of chile. All other Humanitarian arguments aside there is no way to incarcerate him or bind him to the farm, unless the group is willing to take his leg off and give him a crutch.

Bulletchaser on March 6, 2012 at 1:03 AM

Why was Dale meeting that cow so late at night?

jimboster on March 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

I just want to point out that Daryl will be highly irritated when he goes for the .45 in his saddlebags and it isn’t there.

Because Daryl, as attached as he is to his crossbow, won’t be going for the pistol unless the situation is extremely dire.

stuiec on March 6, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Certainly were things to complain about over the course of the series, but have realy liked the last couple of episodes. We are getting into the episodes directed by the new guy and I think you can see the difference.

Dale could have made a better argument for not killing the guy from the other group by saying this:

“I’ll vote for killing Randel on one condition. The kid has to be there and has to watch. Dont justify killing this guy to me, justify it to your boy.”

Makes it less easy to just off someone. Besides sex and going to the bathroom, if you wouldn’t do it in front of your kids then you probably shouldn’t do it away from them. In that way at least Dale was a Con.

And yea, these people do some really dumb things considering there are zombies roaming about. The logically thing to do would be to find some place defensible, a prison or small island, clear it out, fortify it and wait the year or two it would take for the walkers to rot away. But if they do that there wouldn’t be a lot of oppertunity for drama.

‘This old zombie fortress’ might make sense but maybe bad TV.

Boogeyman on March 6, 2012 at 2:28 AM

B

ut if they do that there wouldn’t be a lot of oppertunity for drama.

well, isn’t that the Gods truth,
indeed it is

magone on March 6, 2012 at 4:42 AM

The most annoying character is Carl. Why do they let that kid walk all over the place by himself?

Frances on March 6, 2012 at 6:02 AM

Daughter in law won’t watch any of the alien type movies (because there are no aliens), but likes the zombie types…Huh?? I asked for the rationalization of that….Well…at least zombies used to be real people.

Watched Steven Kings “The Mist” the other night…noticed that three of the WD cast (Dale, Carol and one more that I forgot) were characters in that movie. What a coincidence!!

Larr on March 6, 2012 at 6:28 AM

Dale made one good point about the hostage being condemned for a crime he has not yet committed, but nothing was further explored. Why would Rick save a guy just to kill him later? I wanted to hear different arguments for each side, some rational and some emotional, but that whole scene was a bust.

Actually I’d disagree with that point. As my wife and I were debating the demise of Dale last night, I pointed out that in present day, I’d agree with Dale’s arguments and that due process should be followed. However, the situational environment is not present day, and thus different rules are in place.

What Dale didn’t seem to remember was that just a few days earlier (assuming 1 episode = a day?) Randall was up on a rooftop with a rifle, taking shots at Rick, Hershel, and Glenn, attempting to kill them. Later, when Daryl was working him over Randall admits the group he was with came upon a camp and proceeded to rape the teenage daughters of a survivor, while making the guy watch. Of course Randall claims he didn’t take part, but that’s an unknown. And given his reactions when he, Rick and Shane fought their way out of the zombie infested place the previous episode, I’d lean towards he participated.

If Randall was some survivor who stumbled across the Walking Dead party, then Dale’s arguments would have held more weight with me. However in light of Randall’s actions, I thought Dale’s views on the in-show debate over Randall were a bit over the top. Especially when you factor in the environment they are in.

Personally, I think if the writers didn’t make Dale such an extreme character, he would have been more tolerable. And while his character annoyed me to no end (almost as bad as Lori) I did see him being the “anti-Shane” foil for the group, that functioned as a form of check and balance for Shane’s extreme character on the other direction. With Dale gone, I think the writers will have to either tone Shane down a bit, or make him a victim in the near future to keep the group cohesion together.

DonCherry on March 6, 2012 at 6:29 AM

The most annoying character is Carl. Why do they let that kid walk all over the place by himself?

That was something that had me puzzled. Especially given the recent incident they had with Sophia. Parents typically keep an eye on their kids when going out in public these days, because of all the weirdos and creeps out there. Now, they’re in a world where running off on their own gets you killed.

Especially the part when Rick was going to execute Randall in the barn. It was night. Lori knew what Rick was going off to do (or rather, attempt to do). And she didn’t even notice Carl was not around the camp anywhere?

DonCherry on March 6, 2012 at 6:32 AM

… waitin’ for the Galactica Cross-over… The Fracking Dead.

corncat on March 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM

Put a Cylon battalion to clean up the cities, and the show will be over. As long as they stay friends with the living, things would be OK.:lol

Ah . . . Six!

Bubba Redneck on March 5, 2012 at 9:11 PM

….Eight..hmmmm..

dec5 on March 6, 2012 at 6:49 AM

Too much talkers not enough walkers in that episode!!

Frances on March 6, 2012 at 6:51 AM

Penny-Arcade weighs in on Walking Dead: http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/03/02

eforhan on March 6, 2012 at 7:19 AM

I gave up on this show after a few episodes into the second season. Way too much talking and drama considering they’re supposed to focus on survival and are constantly surrounded by tireless single minded cannibals. A single episode can go by where nothing happens. I know enough about the Walking Dead comics to know this never really changes except the rare violent battle, and the author of the story is well known to be fickle. If he decides he no longer likes how he has developed a character, he kills them off very suddenly and moves on. People want more zombie action.

Blacksoda on March 6, 2012 at 7:31 AM

omg..EXACTLY! EXACTLY! You have captured my feeling perfectly. May pappy’s timepiece…lol!!

tlynch001 on March 6, 2012 at 8:12 AM

This may be a wacky idea y’all, but if you don’t like the show…don’t watch it.

If enough folks do that it will go away, or change into television’s version of Zombieland.

I take solace in that when the apocalypse comes, I will not do what these people do. If others do, it will make things that much easier for me…and my harem.

Use the show as a “how to” manual, on what not to do.

cozmo on March 6, 2012 at 8:30 AM

I believe the problem will take care of itself via cancellation.

roy_batty on March 6, 2012 at 8:41 AM

And replace it with what?

Android hunting and electric sheep?

Zombies work cheaper.

cozmo on March 6, 2012 at 8:40 AM

This may be a wacky idea y’all, but if you don’t like the show…don’t watch it.

cozmo on March 6, 2012 at 8:30 AM

I believe the problem will take care of itself via cancellation.

roy_batty on March 6, 2012 at 8:41 AM

Whoa…maybe a reboot of Time Tunnel…

cozmo on March 6, 2012 at 8:41 AM

Please apply your warlock powers to the AMC writing staff.

roy_batty on March 6, 2012 at 8:54 AM

When Dale went out into the field and saw the cow, my wife was like “OMG, they’re going to find out the cows are zombies now” to which I replied “No. That idea is way to awesome for this stupid show”.

matd on March 6, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Since AMC was stupid enough to fire Frank Darabont, this show has pretty much gone downhill, and I am not watching it as much as I did when it first came out. Only thing I want to see is when the show will eventually introduce the character of The Governor, who fans of the graphic novels already know is one of the vilest villains ever created in a series. Maybe the show will get interesting after that, but something is telling me it is running out of steam real quick.

pilamaye on March 6, 2012 at 9:07 AM

I don’t find anyone on this series likeable anymore. What a soap opera it’s become. What happened to this series since first season? Did they change writers? It’s almost as if someone who’s never seen a zombie movie is writing the script. And I really wish they would do something about the tongues on the zombies. I know, I know, weird thing to fasten onto, but seriously, rotted head, face, neck, but nice, healthy pink tongue when it opens its mouth? I can’t be the only person who’s noticed that jarring inconsistency. One amongst many, but this is not the place to go into all that.

blackgriffin on March 6, 2012 at 9:36 AM

I figured Dale’s demise was to add to the story brewing about Carl. Kid seems to becoming a tad unhinged. He was throwing rocks at the zombie, urging his dad to shoot the kid, and then realized the zombie that just ate Dale was there because of him. Hda he not provoked him, he most likely would not have escaped, and then found his way to the farm.

Someone said the title Walking Dead refers to those still human – hadn’t thought about that. Makes sense.

I like the show, in large par because Rick is from one of my favorite films, Love Actually. hehe

As for Dale, I think he is a Liberal – not just for arguing against executing the new kid, but for many things he has said throughout the show.

sarainitaly on March 6, 2012 at 9:37 AM

When Dale went out into the field and saw the cow, my wife was like “OMG, they’re going to find out the cows are zombies now” to which I replied “No. That idea is way to awesome for this stupid show”.

matd on March 6, 2012 at 9:07 AM

I said the same thing to my hubby! How cool would Zombie cows be?

sarainitaly on March 6, 2012 at 9:38 AM

AND unless that cow was already down or seriously ill, there’s no way one scrawny zombie is going to bring it down. I live in the country. Cows are big and surprising fast. That zombie might get its hands on it for a second, but it would be up and gone. My neighbor’s cows get loose all the time;he’s the only one who can get near them and even he has to herd them or lure them with feed. Okay, I’m done. Sorry.

blackgriffin on March 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM

You know for someone who hates this show you sure do watch it and blog about it a lot.

amoore8228 on March 6, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Spoiler alert

CreatedOrSaved on March 6, 2012 at 10:46 AM

The real problem is there are too many characters, and the series never really allows them to develop, they just kind of scatter-shot all of them every episode. They should focus on a few of them each episode and allow the audience time to get to know them. The series seems like a bunch of cameos strung together each week.

Rode Werk on March 5, 2012 at 11:39 PM

This is where they could have taken a lesson from Ronald D. Moore. His writing on Star Trek (particularly DS9) was exemplary, and he took that character development over to Battlestar Galactica with him.

Yes, there are parts where various twists seem implausible or just feel like the writers made up a plot device to tie up a loose end, but think about all the characters that are in that show: Adama, Roslin, Baltar, Six, Boomer, Starbuck, Apollo, Helo, Athena, Tigh, Ellen, Kat, Tyrol, Cally, Dee, Tory, Sam, Gaeta, Zarek, Leoben, Cavil, D’anna, and that’s to say nothing of recurring characters like Racetrack, Skulls, Hot Dog, Billy, Doral, Cavil, Doc Cottle, Seelix, Jammer, Crashdown and various other one-dimensional add-ons.

I don’t disagree with your assessment that there are “too many characters”, because 98% of the time, that number of characters is too many. It takes a pretty special combination of the right circumstances to have as many characters as BSG and still pull off a successful show with characters whose fate matters to you. Walking Dead could have pulled it off, but when you try something like that and it doesn’t quite work, the failure is glaring to the viewer.

The Schaef on March 6, 2012 at 11:04 AM

AND unless that cow was already down or seriously ill, there’s no way one scrawny zombie is going to bring it down. I live in the country. Cows are big and surprising fast. That zombie might get its hands on it for a second, but it would be up and gone. My neighbor’s cows get loose all the time;he’s the only one who can get near them and even he has to herd them or lure them with feed. Okay, I’m done. Sorry.

blackgriffin on March 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM

My understanding is that the writing staff doesn’t have anyone on it with a rural or farming background. You’ve essentially got writers with a suburban or city background trying to imagine what it’s like. Of course, most of the viewers probably don’t have that kind of background either. It’s the blind leading the blind. If these characters were caught in a real Zombie Apocalypse, they’d all die quickly.

Gladtobehere on March 6, 2012 at 11:48 AM

I have to admit, Dale got on my nerves more than once, but the character I most would like to see get the Big Bite is Lori. She’s sooo loyal to Rick, and yet she can’t leave Shane alone. Every time he backs off from her, she comes around with some indignant little speech, and it’s ShaneCrazyTime again. I wish they would have just run off together.

Can’t say I like Andrea much either, but at least she does have some redeeming qualities (for one, she’s not weepy and helpless). But kudos to Carol (the weepy mom) for finally showing some temper.

RebeccaH on March 6, 2012 at 12:03 PM

What this show really needs is more chainsaws. Lots and lots of chainsaws.

J.H. on March 6, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Every episode of this show annoys me more and more. There’s nothing else that I want to watch competing with it in it’s time slot, so I guess I’ll make it through the rest of this season. Don’t know if I’ll come back for more in the Fall.

What’s irritating is that the writers are lazy and they are being inconsistant with their own mythology. Sci- Fi and fantasy shows with outrageous themes can work for me so long as the characters and events continue to play out within the rules that have been constructed for their universe.

That’s what sucks so hard about Dale’s death: the specific circumstances in which he met his demise were not consistent with what we had been shown was “reality” in regards to how the zombies behave. In multiple other scenes in other episodes we have been taught that a feeding zombie is a happy zombie and is oblivious to everything else. We have also been shown that they prefer to deal with food that is already weakened or down than to continue to chase fresher, stronger prey:

1. When the zombie horde in Atlanta takes Rick’s horse, they ignore him while they chew the horse to shreds, allowing him to escape to the tank.

2. When Daryl’s character is first introduced, he has been tracking a wounded deer. When he and the group finally catch up to it, a zombie has gotten to it first and ignores them while he eats. The group easily dispatches the zombie.

3. When Shane kneecapped Otis every single one of the zombie horde that was following them stopped to munch on Otis. Not a single one continued to try to chase Shane.

4. Two episodes ago, when Rick, Glenn, and Herschel were in the shoot out with Randall’s gang outside of the bar, once again every single one of the coming zombie horde stopped to feed on the wounded gang member in the yard and not a single one continued down the alley after Glenn and Herschel.

So, given the “rules for zombies” that the writers have created for the universe of TWD, the zombie who killed Dale should have been sitting there happily munching on the freshly killed cow, completely oblivious to Dale’s presence. According to the “rules,” Dale should have been able to walk back to the farmhouse, individually locate and told each person what he had found, called a committee meeting about it once he had assembled a quorum of adults, drawn lots to decide who was going to make up the three person “zombie disposal team,” diagrammed and rehearsed a plan of attack, tucked Carl into bed, and walked back to the whack the zombie in the head with a shovel as he was finishing the first third of the cow sometime around sunrise.

Disappointing.

Dukeboy01 on March 6, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Every one is already infected. Just like HIV but as long as they don’t die or get sick with infection and a weaken immune system they stay alive.

tjexcite on March 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM
Remember the CDC? Clean blood tests……Just saying.

MaxSplinters on March 5, 2012 at 9:12 PM

No,not clean. Remember Rick asking if there was “anything unusual” in the blood tests. The CDC guy said”nothing unexpected”.This virus is airborne,they are all infected,thus the cast is “The Walking Dead”.Not the zombies!

MouthyMainah on March 6, 2012 at 12:40 PM

I swear they write each week’s episode by throwing darts at a wall covered with character names and random plot elements. There’s not a character on the show I don’t want to get eaten. The day a zombie horde swarms the farm, is the day I like this show. I even forgot it was on the week before last. I’m hanging on in the hopes there will be some redeeming zombieness but I’m fading fast.

jnelchef on March 6, 2012 at 1:01 PM

It’s stupid, but fun to watch. What I don’t get is why they are always running out of food and ammo. There has to be tons of military stuff laying around. Why not get a tank instead of a car? Wouldn’t have to worry about Walkers if you rode a tank.

rjulio on March 6, 2012 at 1:11 PM

Bubba Redneck on March 5, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Six? Meh…

Now Eight on the other hand… :)

Wolftech on March 6, 2012 at 1:11 PM

Freelancer on March 5, 2012 at 10:50 PM

Linking to TvTropes.org is just plain evil, man…

Wolftech on March 6, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Why not get a tank instead of a car? Wouldn’t have to worry about Walkers if you rode a tank.

rjulio on March 6, 2012 at 1:11 PM

You have to know how to drive a tank. And you can’t fill up an Abrams at the corner station.

I wouldn’t characterize Dale as conservative. His tendency to confiscate firearms to prevent people from doing things he doesn’t like (which he did several times) rings rather nanny-state, and his appeals to behave in “civilized” ways during essentially an anarchic state of perpetual war is the kind of idealism that leads directly to calls for civilian trials for terrorists, not drone strikes and SEAL team insertions. He did play a role in the group, though, and I’m surprised the writers chose to excise that dynamic…

Blacklake on March 6, 2012 at 1:22 PM

What happens to zombies in temps below freezing?

aceinstall on March 6, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Why was Dale meeting that cow so late at night?

jimboster on March 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

Thank you, kind sir! The rest of the office is wondering what I laughed at!

Pale Rider on March 6, 2012 at 2:33 PM

This virus is airborne,they are all infected,thus the cast is “The Walking Dead”.Not the zombies!

Anyone else find it _odd_ how in the previous episode, Shane and Rick made more than a casual observation about how the zombie cops they ran into didn’t have a scratch or bite on them? Hmmmmm …

matd on March 6, 2012 at 2:59 PM

Disappointing.

Dukeboy01 on March 6, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Possible scenario: The cow could have fled after being bitten by the zombie, shaking the zombie off. Then Dale came along thinking just as you were, that any nearby zombie must already be chowing down on the cow, but he walked right between the dying cow and the zombie crawling toward it.

All of the complaints I’ve read here seem weak, with the possible exception of the point about noise suppressors for the guns, but even that one can be partially explained by the ease with which zombies can be dispatched without using up precious ammunition. Save the bullets for when you really need them.

BTW, Dale was a really annoying character. Classic modern bleeding heart disconnected from reality.

fadetogray on March 6, 2012 at 3:00 PM

Use the show as a “how to” manual, on what not to do.

cozmo on March 6, 2012 at 8:30 AM

Now how would we know what not to do without watching this drivel? Besides the Zombies, the real draw of this show, seeing how stupid these people are and laughing about it with others is also amusing.

The second season of Breakout Kings just started on A&E, so I finally have something else to watch on Sunday nights. It’s a good show.

Daemonocracy on March 6, 2012 at 3:06 PM

All of the complaints I’ve read here seem weak, with the possible exception of the point about noise suppressors for the guns, but even that one can be partially explained by the ease with which zombies can be dispatched without using up precious ammunition. Save the bullets for when you really need them.

fadetogray on March 6, 2012 at 3:00 PM

No what is weak is defending this show for not having these guys go out and scavenge the many gun stores you can find all around Georgia for more guns and ammo – that is weak.

The complaints here have all been valid. Walking in an open field at night and alone and not seeing a walker is pretty damn stupid. STILL not having a defensive perimeter set up is even more stupid. Scavenger for loads of fishing line and tie cowbells to them, a Zombie will never sneak up on you, but Dale’s death was because of his own stupidity – what was he doing out there (and that idiot kid)?

As for Zombies being disposed of with ease without guns, oh come on. If they aren’t learning from Daryl how to shoot a cross bow then they should be finding supressors. How the heck can they stab a Zombie in the face, get all the blood sprayed on them and not become infected? If a scratch is a mortal wound, why isn’t blood spraying all over you?

Every movie and show requires the viewer to have a suspension of disbelief and in the first season I was more than willing to extend that to this show, but these have been binging on tardasil this season.

Daemonocracy on March 6, 2012 at 3:19 PM

Only way to salvage it at this point is to have one more episode, which consists of nothing but models wearing American flag bikinis shooting zombies with chainguns in slow motion.

JeremiahJohnson on March 6, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Walking in an open field at night and alone and not seeing a walker is pretty damn stupid.

Incredibly stupid. That character was an incredibly stupid man who was unable to accept what had happened to civilization. Of course he shouldn’t have been out alone in the dark walking in tall grass.

STILL not having a defensive perimeter set up is even more stupid. Scavenger for loads of fishing line and tie cowbells to them, a Zombie will never sneak up on you, but Dale’s death was because of his own stupidity – what was he doing out there (and that idiot kid)?

Complaints about the stupidity of characters and complaints about the show are two entirely different things. Real people really are often incredibly stupid, especially when they are put in circumstances they are not prepared to deal with.

They have not had a problem with zombies sneaking up on them at the farm. Dale’s stupidity was just good old fashioned, emotion driven, realistically portrayed stupidity, the kind you see Democrats engaging in every day of the year.

BTW, they do not want to scavenge any more than they must. It is dangerous.

fadetogray on March 6, 2012 at 3:38 PM

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