As many as five U.S. troops may be reprimanded for Koran-burning in Afghanistan

posted at 6:10 pm on March 2, 2012 by Allahpundit

No, the riots aren’t over. They’re just resting until the next phase, when the military gently informs Afghan parliamentarians and clerics that accidental Koran-burning doesn’t warrant beheading by scimitar under the UCMJ.

“What they did was careless, but there was no ill will,” said one U.S. military official…

But U.S. military officials expressed concern Friday that the investigation’s finding — which stops short of pinning blame on malevolent soldiers — might not satisfy Afghan leaders who have demanded harsh retribution…

“For the soldiers, it will be serious — they could lose rank. But you’re not going to see the kind of public trial that some here seem to want,” said another U.S. military official…

“There’s a real concern there. We don’t know what the investigation will say, or how the public will react,” the U.S. military official said. “But we know that there’s a real interest in trying guilty parties in an Afghan court, and that’s not something we’re prepared to do.”

But … what about all the apologies? Over to you, CNN:

The burning of the Muslim holy book by U.S. forces at an Afghan prison is unforgivable, a powerful council of Muslim scholars said Friday. It demanded that foreign forces turn over control of prisoners to Afghanistan’s government.

In a statement released through President Hamid Karzai’s office, the Ulema Council said the incident occurred because of “illegal management” of the prison.

“The representatives of the Ulema Council also said that the unforgivable and inhuman action of American forces in Bagram is something that could not be forgiven and an apology is not enough. The criminals of this action should be openly prosecuted and punished as soon as possible,” according to the statement.

Maybe that’s their way of bargaining, i.e. “we can never, ever forgive this insult, although handing over control of Bagram’s prison might help us forget.” The prison’s been a sore spot between NATO and Karzai for months, with NATO continually backsliding on timetables to hand it over, partly due to fears that the Afghans will be too rough with some prisoners and no doubt partly due to fears that they won’t be able, or willing, to secure others. The latest deadline issued by Karzai to hand it over is March 9. If things go haywire again next week, maybe O will decide it’s worth paying the danegeld and granting his wish — once any high-level detainees have been moved to another NATO facility. Hopefully.

Question for any military lawyers out there: Which provisions of the UCMJ are likely to come into play here? Under normal circumstances I assume this would warrant nonjudicial punishment under Article 15 but the Pentagon will be under pressure to put on a show for the locals, so we might see a full court-martial. Under which provisions? I assume it’ll be either dereliction of duty under Article 92 or the catch-all “don’t do anything embarrassing” provision under Article 134. Anything else? Exit quotation from retired Col. Peter Mansoor, former executive officer to David Petraeus: “If it’s not a true partnership, then why should we sacrifice American blood and treasure?… Americans have cultural sensitivities, too. Maybe we’re so sensitive to Afghan culture that we’re forgetting our own.”


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I’m sure all the unindicted co-conspiratorial Muslim organizations have given Obama his marching orders to punish the troops.

Wigglesworth on March 2, 2012 at 7:17 PM

The five should get KP duty for improper disposal of garbage.

profitsbeard on March 2, 2012 at 7:17 PM

The Afghans, to a person, are human filth. They are utterly unworthy of American protection and sacrifice. Let’s get out tomorrow and leave them to their primitive savagery.

NealK on March 2, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Our soldiers did nothing wrong and I would hope that there is a huge anti-Obama backlash if he singles them out and scapegoats them to appease a bunch of intolerant Islamic terrorists.

OxyCon on March 2, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Obama’s “muslim roots” are deeply offended.

wildcat72 on March 2, 2012 at 7:21 PM

Tired of sacrificing blood, money, and American lives on these savages. We tried to help but they obviously like living in squalor and ignorance. We need to GTFO now

MyImamToldMeToDoIt on March 2, 2012 at 7:22 PM

Maybe this was said before and if so, sortry but it should be repeated.

If we keep prosecuting/persecuting our soldiers for perceived crimes against the enemy then who would ever enlist again? If I were of an age to enlist after all this I would think it over many times.

FLconservative on March 2, 2012 at 7:23 PM

All we need now is for Bambi to wave a copy of the arrest warrant and tell us: “I do believe this means peace in our time.”

PackerBronco on March 2, 2012 at 7:23 PM

How to deal with this……hmmmmm……they want the soldiers so they can chop off their heads for burning some paper with runes on it….hmmmmm…ah yes…..I’ll award them the Bronze Star or a DSM.

I think that should send both an answer to their request for a headloppingpalooza, and a message……”Go f**k yourselves…you’re not that important”

BobMbx on March 2, 2012 at 7:26 PM

Maybe this was said before and if so, sortrySorry but it should be repeated.

FLconservative on March 2, 2012 at 7:27 PM

dogsoldier nailed it.

I’m no military lawyer, but I got in enough trouble (usually having too much fun) that I’m probably more aqquainted with the military legal system than the average servicemember.

There will be no punishment if those soldiers are smart enough to Court Martial, and when it’s offered, refuse the Summary C.M. and take it to a Special or General C.M. where they would be respresented by lawyers.

In the military, only the guilty accept Non-Judicial Punishment, the conviction rate is staggering.

Hog Wild on March 2, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Our soldiers did nothing wrong and I would hope that there is a huge anti-Obama backlash if he singles them out and scapegoats them to appease a bunch of intolerant Islamic terrorists.

OxyCon on March 2, 2012 at 7:20 PM

While I welcome the anti-Obama sentiments, the troops did do something wrong.

They allowed Muslims to witness them destroying military materials that should have been eradicated securely.

This is a breach of rational intelligence and security procedures on many, many levels.

The inquiry into this should ask:

1)-Why are any Korans given to terrorists, since it their playbook of Terror.

2)-What means did the terrorists use to write in their Korans? If they had pens or pencils, who gave them these potential weapons?

3)-When such messages are intercepted, what is the approved method for their secure disposal? If there is no such in-place procedure, why not? (It’s been more than a decade since 9/11, so hasn’t anyone in Intelligence codified this type of necessary action?)

4)-If there is, why was this method it not followed?

5)-Who permitted Muslims to have access to the area where our trash is burned? Shouldn’t there be a secured area for such things?

6)-Why weren’t the Korans shredded on-site and then incinerated securely?

This is a clusterfark from top to bottom, and needs to be seriously addressed.

A few solutions:

No free Korans for any Muslims.

No Muslims allowed to observe our disposal of secured materials.

And watch your back when an armed Momammedan is nearby, since Islam and the Koran teach Muslims to hate infidel dogs as unclean and despicable creatures who may be killed without compunction if they insult Islam or refuse to pay tribute, or convert.

profitsbeard on March 2, 2012 at 7:34 PM

We are being had……again.

pat on March 2, 2012 at 7:36 PM

Gee… I wonder how many Korans were destroyed when we initially carpet-bombed Kabul, Jalalabad, and Kandahar.

Perhaps we should put those pilots on trial too.

The Ugly American on March 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM

In my head, I like to imagine Andrew Breitbart tweeting at Karzai:

Apologize for WHAT?

MadisonConservative on March 2, 2012 at 6:13 PM

Or better yet …“SO?”

The Ugly American on March 2, 2012 at 7:42 PM

Hey, just for new conspiracy sake – was this actually staged in order to give even more top-cover to withdraw from an unpopular war?

Not sure the govt is sharp enough to pull something like the moon landing off, but this – easy. And with 100% predictable results (burning => outrage…).

Hueydriver on March 2, 2012 at 7:42 PM

If it happens, and if images of a full-blown court-martial of these soldiers are beamed back on TV every night, patriotic Americans will quite properly react with a massive & sustained exhibition of righteous anger at those responsible for allowing such an un-necessary and unjust debasement of our national honor to occur.

Because we know that no offense worth more punishment than a weekend on KP has occured here, if that.

And, at no time was there any deliberate desecration of these Korans except by the terror suspects themselves, who are all Muslim by the way, so…yeah, no.

No American should keep silent or remain uninvolved for one minute if ANY of these soldiers actually goes “on trial”

Sacramento on March 2, 2012 at 7:42 PM

No shariah law enforced? Dieeeee infidellsssssss — afghan mob

sadsushi on March 2, 2012 at 7:43 PM

Maybe this was said before and if so, sorry but it should be repeated.

If we keep prosecuting/persecuting our soldiers for perceived crimes against the enemy then who would ever enlist again? If I were of an age to enlist after all this I would think it over many times.

FLconservative on March 2, 2012 at 7:23 PM

So the proggies achieve their objectives by another route. Win-win.

slickwillie2001 on March 2, 2012 at 7:48 PM

I think the crime is “following perfectly legal orders resulting in bad publicity,” I don’t know the actual code number, but I’m sure they’ll come up with something.

Merovign on March 2, 2012 at 7:52 PM

HotAirian on March 2, 2012 at 6:14 PM

Dresden. Used to be, we knew how to handle things…

affenhauer on March 2, 2012 at 8:02 PM

With Obama in office, it’s a lost cause anyway.

Just withdraw everyone now, and try to do it right when we have to go back in 15 or 20 years from now.

malclave on March 2, 2012 at 8:02 PM

I don’t know the actual code number, but I’m sure they’ll come up with something.

Merovign on March 2, 2012 at 7:52 PM

I think it’s an Article Catch 22, aka the BOHICA clause.

malclave on March 2, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Under the bus….

and if this doesn’t appease the muslim animals will he hand them over for beheading? I retired so I wouldn’t be bus fodder for this clown.

Doomsday on March 2, 2012 at 8:04 PM

If we are to survive as a nation, obama must go.

Pork-Chop on March 2, 2012 at 8:07 PM

We call the dogs who lose Americans. We are furious about the Korans,” said Mirwais Haji, 28, as a defeated canine limped off the snow-covered dirt ring on the edge of the capital.

“We want the Afghan government to bring the people who did this to us. We will kill them ourselves.”

“Even if the people who did this are prosecuted. The anger will never, ever go away. It will always be stuck in my heart,” said one of them, 30-year-old Khalil Bazar.

Such peaceful people..No less than death will temporary satisfy these animals

sadsushi on March 2, 2012 at 8:16 PM

Bullshit. Ban me.

Dingbat63 on March 2, 2012 at 8:25 PM

They’ve identified the 5. Their battle buddies better be protecting them right now from the MPs and higher-ups. If they are handed over for any punishment, there should be mass koran burnings all over.

My only hope is that those korans were lit on fire during a #$%& burning detail.

Durka-Durka on March 2, 2012 at 8:28 PM

If you put on a show trial the ‘Slums are going to expect ‘Slum justice. If the greasy Islamphobic perps are only stripped of a mere rank, that will be meaningless and a further insult to them. They want heads not pay grade cuts so they will take justice into their own hands and collect some more of their own heads again. Looks like the Tar Baby gotcha good. Too bad no one knows what to do with unknowable Islam.

BL@KBIRD on March 2, 2012 at 8:30 PM

reprimanded? I thought the korans had coded language and were ordered to burn?

On a side not –

“*#@! Catholics. Excuse me while I #%&! on the church”

– Pelosi, Obama, Sebilius, Reid, etc, etc, etc.

“The religion of peace sure is peaceful, oh and !@#$ Catholics”

– lovers of Islam Pelosi, Obama, Sebilius, Reid, etc, etc, etc

I really want to cry right now. This is sickening.

Gatekeeper on March 2, 2012 at 8:39 PM

I wonder how many of these brave men and women feel their CIC is their worst enemy?

losarkos on March 2, 2012 at 8:42 PM

Maybe we’re so sensitive to Afghan culture that we’re forgetting our own.

“In the United States we have a sacred document called the Constitution. It starts with a “K” sound, like your Koran. The First Amendment says everyone has freedom of speech. That means they can say what they want, and there can be no law against that. We can even criticize our leaders without fear. The First Amendment also says we are free to embrace or reject any religion we want. Under the First Amendment, we can burn any book or symbol we want. It’s part of our freedom of speech. So when the Korans were burned, that was allowed under our laws.”

P.S. No Afghan gives a crap. It’s all about them. Not about us.

Paul-Cincy on March 2, 2012 at 8:47 PM

Once, as a young SP augmentee, I was ordered to escort an AWOL airman (that had turned himself in and was awaiting CM) back to barracks.

I asked to NCOIC what happens if he decides to run afterall. He said I better catch him before he goes very far.

I think in this case, I’d run with ‘em and hide out to keep ‘em safe.

OkieDoc on March 2, 2012 at 8:48 PM

Paul-Cincy on March 2, 2012 at 8:47 PM

You make an interesting point. (I was typing my post above and didn’t see yours til just now.)

If these soldiers were on an American base, is that not the same as being on American soil?

WTH right does ANY frickin jyhadi have telling an American what he can or cannot do there?

OkieDoc on March 2, 2012 at 8:54 PM

I don’t know why the hell people are willing to serve under such a traitor.

TexasJew on March 2, 2012 at 8:54 PM

We should have gotten that preacher from a year or two ago to burn them. He would gladly do it so our soldiers wouldn’t have to.

tommer74 on March 2, 2012 at 6:59 PM

Well isn’t that coincidental.

BL@KBIRD on March 2, 2012 at 8:55 PM

I wonder how many of these brave men and women feel their CIC is their worst enemy? losarkos on March 2, 2012 at 8:42 PM

Probably just about as many as the rest of us who think he is our worst enemy.

indyvet on March 2, 2012 at 9:32 PM

I thought our policy was to not negotiate with terrorists. This whole incident makes me sad. First of all, we are at war. Stop pandering to the enemy. Second of all, if we punish them then they will continue to demand things because they know we will eventually give them what they want. Romney (since that is who the candidate will be) should announce that we will leave afghanistan immediately. He should do it from a position of power though.
Something like,”We’ve given you ten years of our blood and tears so that you may know freedom. Instead you choose slavery and destitution. We will not sacrifice anymore for those who are not capable of understanding it. We leave you now to lay in the bed you have made and we will not be back to help you. It is time for you to move forward and join the rest of humanity in civilization. Until you reach that goal you are on your own.”
If he were to come out with this he would immediately grnish support from both sides while maintaning a strong stance.

speekr on March 2, 2012 at 9:52 PM

The best that can be said of the Afghans is their consistency. Throughout history consistently: Murderous, thieving, backstabbing, treacherous with normative behavior which frequently involves incest and child molestation-not to mention a culture financially dependent upon the opium poppy.

If we weren’t there (hint hint hint), instead of Americans, they willingly (and even eagerly) be killing each other for fun and profit.The fun, presumably, would be the capture of young boys with “buttocks like ripe pears” (their expression not mine).

What we should do is get out and give each warring faction just enough ammo to maximize the killing but not enough to assure that any one group gains ascendancy.

MaiDee on March 2, 2012 at 9:56 PM

Very troubling from a military defendant perspective. Lacking a prior lawful order to treat korans with respect (such as capitalizing the first letter of its unholy name), there is no UCMJ violation here. Even then, such a ruling opens the door to atheist malcontents (as opposed to plain old atheists, who tend to laugh at what they consider religious idiocy), to press against the time-honored and historically effective military heirarchy as described in “A Few Good Men”.

Brennan on March 2, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Our generals are traitors. Patton would have them shot.

VorDaj on March 2, 2012 at 10:25 PM

Our generals are traitors. Patton would have them shot.

VorDaj on March 2, 2012 at 10:25 PM

Patton would have ended this excursion in about 6 months. And the only Hussein who be bowing would Saddam as he backs away from the instrument of surrender he just signed.

BobMbx on March 2, 2012 at 10:37 PM

Seems like a lot of the people who have never led men, love to act like they know what a general should do. Twain comes to mind. A greater intellect for biting words of commentary against authority and war there has not been, but an utter coward underneath it all.

He was of fighting age during the greatest time men could have been called to the field of battle, for one of the noblest of all causes; to set other men free. Yet he could only just manage a brief two weeks (he claimed) arrayed for battle before he decided putting other mens lives above his was just, foolish. He decided to leave the Confederacy and went west to pan for gold while other men gave their last full measure of devotion. Then he made a career of ridiculing them.

Knowing this, how can you take anything he’s written with more than a grain of salt?

hawkdriver on March 2, 2012 at 10:45 PM

I’ve been a huge supporter of trying to get somewhere with cultures who have been denied their access to the rest of the world. However, my patience has worn thin. Send the “perpetrators” back to the USA, reassign them and move on. We don’t need people who have no understanding of freedom telling us how to treat our soldiers.

This was an accident – it’s time our brass said so and moved on. If we keep kowtowing to people who, unfortunately, do not understand that others can also make mistakes, then, why stay? This is hard for me to write b/c I know soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan but perhaps it is time to leave – they had their chance to try something different. They’ve abused that opportunity.

Please, send our guys home.

MN J on March 2, 2012 at 11:07 PM

It’d likely be an Art 92 (violation of general order or regulation) if there were any explicitly punitive policies in effect or a general Art 134 offense (conduct prejudicial to good order & discipline or of a nature to bring discredit to the armed services).

greenonions on March 2, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Just one more reason why the retaliation for 9/11 should have been delivered in the form of Minuteman ICBMs.

But you know what they say? Better late than never…

Hayabusa on March 3, 2012 at 12:33 AM

I’d give the five a promotion! Muslim reaction is like that of a spoiled, hateful, murderous child!
Sharia: 7th century rules for 7th century throwbacks!

GFW on March 3, 2012 at 7:27 AM

While we are doing something about guilty parties, why is Karzai still not in prison? He can hold the cell warm until we decide to place Obama in with him, too.

{^_^}

herself on March 3, 2012 at 8:38 AM

“For the soldiers, it will be serious — they could lose rank. But you’re not going to see the kind of public trial that some here seem to want,” said another U.S. military official…

Why will it be “serious” for the soldiers? I’ve yet to read a conclusion that it was done derisively, or otherwise “disrespectfully”.

“Under normal circumstances I assume this would warrant nonjudicial punishment under Article 15″ – AlP

And you would “know” this how?
Chapter and verse forthcoming I presume.
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on March 3, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Dresden. Used to be, we knew how to handle things…

affenhauer on March 2, 2012 at 8:02 PM

It’s hard to get a good firestorm going in a collection of mud huts.

Perhaps a small nuke would be better. srsly!

Solaratov on March 3, 2012 at 12:02 PM

If these soldiers were acting under orders, that would make their officers responsible. And if those officers were acting under orders, would that not make their officers responsible? Taking the transitive closure of this set, we have that, among others, we’d have to hand Barack Obama over to the imams for punishment.

Hmm.

unclesmrgol on March 3, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Islam – Muslims … they’re all barbaric and clearly insane. Period. ‘Nuff said.

SD Tom on March 3, 2012 at 2:29 PM

Let me know if the Afghan soldiers who murdered our men will be brought up on charges. It is time to get the heck out of Afghanistan. We have been there ten years and they have come to resent us being there. It is their civil war to fight, not ours.

SC.Charlie on March 3, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Lemme guess…these soldiers are E-5 and below…ah, they may sacrifice an O-1 just so they can’t be accused of picking on EMs.

UCMJ seems to have some kind of built-in metatag that says that whatever the pay grade of the accused is, the chain of responsibility can only go so many grades above and no more…seems to compress as you reach higher into the O pay grades, however.

At any rate, this is all BS. Those men did nothing wrong to warrant this.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 3, 2012 at 2:52 PM

When I served in the Army we jokingly said the UCMJ stood for U CAN’T MEAN JUSTICE. Fortunately the Army rarely applies every nuance of this kangaroo court justice system- but, if they don’t like somebody ,they could send him to the stockade for the most picayune of infractions. The whole point of the military justice system is to frighten soldiers into obedience with just the threat of using such a draconian system-and it works quite well. Too bad the present Army is not as strict with the enemy as it is with its own troops.

MaiDee on March 3, 2012 at 9:41 PM

I’ve been on trash detail before in the Army.

This should have been done and over with before it ever happend.

Time to take our Troops, our equipment and our MONEY and bring it all home.

Leave the incompetence of Karzai to his own devices.

I’d also immediately add him to the dead pool at Sloaty’s, but I already picked somebody else…. Noriega….still kicking….whodathunkit.

I doubt Karzai would last more that a week if we were to leave and take our stuff with us.

RealMc on March 4, 2012 at 9:24 AM

There are some great post here. Hogwild, the advice to go for General Courts Martial is solid. Not only do they have Lawyers, the Military has to PROVE they did something wrong and were aware they were violating the UCMJ. They did NOT, they violated a Sharia Law, and we should NEVER recognize that.

Why were the Korans stored with the trash anyway? Take five Soldiers and tell them to burn the trash, they do not look at what they are burning, it’s in the room so it is trash. Enough said. If they even get passed over for a good conduct medal for this then I say the Army has be hijacked by the Left and it’s time for all of the good Soldiers to leave and go the the Marines or Air Force. I served 27 years in the Army, two tours in Vietnam and as tight as I thought our ROE were, they are nothing compared to what out troops have to observe today. Get out of Afghanistan completely, do like we did when we left France, leave nothing but foundations and break them into little pieces. The radicals will take over in two weeks but they will do the same thing if we stay there for another hundred years. Get out now.

old war horse on March 4, 2012 at 5:13 PM

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