Next battleground: Ohio

posted at 8:40 am on February 29, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

After Mitt Romney’s sweep last night and a fresh delegate haul, the road ahead gets tougher for Rick Santorum.  Santorum never really came close in Arizona, but he had a lead in Michigan until a mediocre debate performance a week ago gave Romney an opening to take his native state by a small but significant margin of 32,000 votes, about three percentage points of the overall vote.  Turnout appears to be slightly higher than in 2008, and that means that Romney can avoid another knock about his impact on voting in the primaries being depressed in his wins.  Even the hope that Santorum might end up with more of Michigan’s delegates, thanks to rules that allocate them by Congressional-district votes, ran aground this morning:

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney won the popular vote by a 41-38% margin as well as the tally in seven of 14 congressional districts, most of them in southern Michigan.

Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum won six congressional districts, including the 1st district, which includes the Upper Peninsula an a portion of northern Lower Michigan by just two votes. All of Santorum’s wins came in the northern and western portions of the state. …

As a result, Romney wins 21 delegates from the congressional district results, according to results posted by the Michigan Republican Party, but only 14 of those delegates will be allowed to vote at the national convention because the state broke national GOP rules by moving its primary before the Super Tuesday contests next week.

Santorum wins 18 delegates from the congressional districts, but only 12 of those people will be able to vote at the national convention.

The statewide popular vote will be distributed between Romney and Santorum on a proportional basis with 14 at large delegates at stake, but only two of those delegates will have voting privileges. How those will be divvied up hasn’t been determined.

Santorum’s team claimed a moral victory in a close second-place finish:

“A month ago they didn’t know who we are, but they do now,” Santorum told supporters gathered in a downtown hotel. “We came into the backyard of one of my opponents, in a race that everyone said, ‘Well, just ignore, you have really no chance here.’ And the people of Michigan looked into the hearts of the candidates, and all I have to say is: I love you back.”

Santorum’s advisers noted that Santorum and Romney essentially split the delegates in the Michigan contest because of new party rules, regardless of what the popular vote may have been. Senior strategist John Brabender and others suggested Romney would emerge from Michigan as a weaker candidate.

“God bless him for spending a fabulous amount of money to come into his home state to eke out a victory in the total count and to walk away with many fewer delegates than anybody thought humanly possible two weeks ago,” Brabender said.

The problem with that spin is that, eventually, wins matter, and not just in delegate counts.  One does not win the nomination through a series of second-place finishes.  For a campaign that runs one campaign at a time rather than an organization competing in multiple states at a time, victories are even more important.

In six days, the candidates will compete again in ten states for the Super Tuesday threshold, and the consensus is that Ohio will hog the spotlight.  Georgia might come into play, too, if Newt Gingrich can’t hold onto his lead in his own native state, and Santorum has a big lead in Oklahoma that Romney will not likely bother to challenge.  Santorum didn’t get on the ballot in Virginia, and has a smaller slate of electors in Tennessee thanks to a failure to qualify them.  Ohio has the largest delegate haul next week, and it also consists of the kind of blue-collar, Rust Belt voters that Republicans need to draw to win in November.

So far, Santorum has a lead in the RCP poll average of about eight points, but that may change with the loss in Michigan among the same kind of voters.  Santorum cannot afford another loss in the Rust Belt, especially since Romney is likely to do well in most of the other Super Tuesday contests.  Since all of the binding contests on Super Tuesday are proportional-allocation primaries, Santorum will get a significant number of delegates from second-place finishes again, but without a couple of big wins, Romney will keep adding to his delegate lead and making the case for donors to get on the bandwagon now.

It’s not over for Santorum, but a win in Ohio is a must.  Expect to see Romney and Santorum in Buckeye country all week long.

Update: I had forgotten about this, but my friend Salena Zito of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reminds me that Santorum won’t be on the ballot at all in three of Ohio’s Congressional districts:

Political strategists consider Ohio a critical win for the eventual Republican nominee because none has won the White House without winning the state.

Among 10 states holding Super Tuesday primaries on March 6, Ohio will award 66 delegates to the Republican National Convention. Santorum is not on the ballot in three of the 16 congressional districts, potentially putting him at a nine-delegate disadvantage.

That complicates matters for winning the state, obviously.  If Santorum loses Ohio overall because he couldn’t make the ballot in three CDs, that won’t be an excuse — it will become a reason for voters in later contests to stick with the candidate with better organization.  Santorum will need to win by enough in the other thirteen CDs to overcome his omission, and that will be a very tall order.

Update II: Actually, voters in those districts can vote for Santorum — but he can’t win the delegates, according to Politico:

All six major GOP candidates have been certified and will appear on the Ohio ballot, according to a list released by the Ohio secretary of state’s office today. But Rick Santorum, the release said, did not file delegates in the 6th, 9th or 13th congressional districts — and loses his chance at getting any delegates in those districts.

Forty-eight of the state’s 66 delegates are awarded proportionally based on the vote in each congressional district — three per district — and the remaining 18 delegates are awarded based on the at-large vote statewide. That means that while Santorum can get votes toward the at-large total in those three districts, he has no shot at taking a share of the nine total delegates those districts will award.

That’s still going to be an issue in the Ohio election, but it’s not as bad as it first looked.  Thanks to Daren B for the update.


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Oh definitely back of the neck,.. I have severe osteoarthritis of the spine from various compression fractures, and by 07, I had developed bone spurs inside the spinal canal, creating 4 points of stenosis,.. I was gradually loosing the function of my left arm, and hand.
Mount Carmel East, a Columbus Catholic hospital, and it’s surgical team fused my spine from C-3 to T-1, removed two veretbre, four discs, and replaced everything with titaniumn and bone grafts,.. I healled fast though, I was supposed to be in a neck brace for three months, but the bones knitted after one, so.. at least I heal fast.
My working days are done now.. I have to get another epideral in the lumbar tomorrow. They inject steroids into the spinal fluid.
yeah, I hurt always, but,.. ya do what you have to for your wife and kids.. even if I’d rather not. Shot should ease up the pain alot, for a couple of months anyway.
Kind of you to ask,..
mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 12:39 PM

Sounds awful. I guess it really is as the old tune goes about “the knee bone’s connected to” – so many joints and muscles interconnected. It’s my understanding that treatment can be worse than what ills you, but just for a shorter period of time. Spinal injections, ugh.
I’ve been blessed so far in life in the ongoing pain area. I just have a bit of a “crinky” neck today from being crouched over the keyboard last nite watching the returns. I forget that I’m not a teenager anymore and can’t get away sitting any dang way I please without consequence, lol. But a couple of aspirins and I’m good enough to go.

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 12:49 PM

BakerAllie on February 29, 2012 at 12:40 PM

sigh-unfortunetly in the general we will be dealing with independents not just republicans

gerrym51 on February 29, 2012 at 12:51 PM

And Romney comes across as phony and unlikeable. Say what you want about the “have a beer with” factor, but it exists and it matters to a lot of voters. There are more voters who share Santorum’s social values than you think.

What you should have added is that i will vote for Romney in the general but fear that he will be destroyed

gerrym51 on February 29, 2012 at 12:53 PM

Good rationalization. However, Huckabee was still running. How the heck was Romney more conservative than Huckabee and McCain 4 years ago but not more conservative than Santorum now? I mean, why the heck is Santorum more conservative than Huckabee or McCain?

And you know more about Romneycare now than 4 years ago? Really? Levin is even more of a hack than I thought. What did he learn in these 4 years about Romneycare that he didn’t know 4 years ago? He endorsed Romney 4 years ago with such a weak understanding of his record? Geez. It seems the “great educator” isn’t very good at educating himself. Pity.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:22 PM

No, not good rationalization. The truth. Plus I believe he endorsed Fred Thompson over Huckabee and the others until we were stuck with Giuliani, Romney, and McCain. Then he encouraged everyone to rally around the eventual candidate. Much like the deja vu we’re going through now. Instead of bashing him, you should listen to him every day. You might learn something.

mozalf on February 29, 2012 at 12:34 PM

Too bad that in the real world, we were never stuck with Giuliani, Romney and McCain because Giuliani dropped out well before Huckabee. In fact, Huckabee was the last one to drop out of the race with the exception of Paul (and McCain, obviously).

So yeah, considering the bit about how Levin and his cult weren’t aware of Romneycare when endorsing Mitt four years ago and now that you can’t even get basic historical facts about the race right, I’d say that maybe, maybe, there are better “educators” out there than the nutjob Mark Levin. It seems his cult followers aren’t very well informed.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Have a good day HA posters!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36GyQt4AgM

Remember this when contemplating a vote for Sweatervest! Proof that he’s in bed with the slimy liberals.

1984 in real life on February 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Either that, or some people like to talk as if they have money. Generally, I think you are right about the reasons people are choosing Santorum over Romney. Santorum has his pained moments, but he’s more accessible to the average worker. Romney is a stiff.

Lightswitch on February 29, 2012 at 12:37 PM

I think so, and when you consider, all the tiny snippets of news we get here.. the average voter will never see or hear,.. the “have a beer with” factor looms pretty large.

Most people don’t get into it to this level, they just don’t.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Too bad people are actually choosing Romney over Santorum. In fact, it’s not even close. Including blue collar workers.

You know the crazy is strong when they base their rants on premises like “the people are choosing Santorum over Romney”.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Joana won’t be around after the elections…she is a paid hack, nothing more.

right2bright on February 29, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Gotta love the baseless ad hominem attacks.

Foxhound on February 29, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Christie a moderate?

Well, I guess that these days conservatives are big government, big spending, pro-unions republicans like Santorum.

Or better yet: the only reason Christie is a “moderate” is because he’s from an urban coastal state and nominated a judge.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Christie is great on some things, not others.

“’Being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime,’ U.S. Attorney Chris Christie said in 2008 speaking at a Latino church. “‘The whole phrase of ‘illegal immigrant’ connotes that the person, by just being here, is committing a crime.’”

“When you have over 90 percent of the world’s scientists who have studied this stating that climate change is occurring and that humans play a contributing role, it’s time to defer to the experts.”

He did veto a cap and trade deal, but he made the climate change statement only a month before.

The judge he appointed was a muslim guy who had defended muslims after 9/11. I don’t know if the judge is any good, but Christie took flack from conservatives over that.

Is he moderate? More than he lets on I think. I’d still pick him over Romney.

Lightswitch on February 29, 2012 at 12:59 PM

What you should have added is that i will vote for Romney in the general but fear that he will be destroyed

gerrym51 on February 29, 2012 at 12:53 PM

Heh. I’ve said that on here before but I’ll confirm it for you.

BakerAllie on February 29, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Too bad that in the real world, we were never stuck with Giuliani, Romney and McCain because Giuliani dropped out well before Huckabee. In fact, Huckabee was the last one to drop out of the race with the exception of Paul (and McCain, obviously).

So yeah, considering the bit about how Levin and his cult weren’t aware of Romneycare when endorsing Mitt four years ago and now that you can’t even get basic historical facts about the race right, I’d say that maybe, maybe, there are better “educators” out there than the nutjob Mark Levin. It seems his cult followers aren’t very well informed.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM

We get it. You HATE Mark Levin.

Entertain us Dear. Post one of your Palin screeds so we
can see your ugly azz Bile in all its Glory.

ToddPA on February 29, 2012 at 1:05 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36GyQt4AgM

1984 in real life on February 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM

That’s the great thing about a capitalist–he capitalizes! I’m glad Romney has recognized what a huge chance this is to end Santorum’s campaign for good.

I don’t think Santorum is a bad person, but I do think he’ll never be president. It’s whether we realize that now, or in November, that counts.

EricW on February 29, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Too bad people are actually choosing Romney over Santorum. In fact, it’s not even close. Including blue collar workers.

You know the crazy is strong when they base their rants on premises like “the people are choosing Santorum over Romney”.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Read it again, Einstein. You even put it in bold. I didn’t say everyone was voting for Santorum, I said “people”.

Generally, I think you are right about the reasons people are choosing Santorum over Romney.

So, you know you are crazy when you assume someone is for Santorum just because they think Romney is a droid.

Lightswitch on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

I live in massachusetts under Romneycare and It has only affected the 8 percent of us that did not have insurance.

I get insurance from my employer. it has not affected me.

I find that most of the people who disparage it know nothing about it.

gerrym51 on February 29, 2012 at 11:31 AM

So many people do not even understand Romney’s TRUE record in MA and only run with what they heard someone else quote about him. Also people in MA have NINE different PRIVATE insurance companies to choose from of those 8 percent.

Danielvito listed a ton of things that were false. Here is my counter to him.
Romney did more for gun owners in MA than any other Gov. The NRA arm GOAL praised Romney for his 2nd Amendment stances and they even said the media quoting that he banned assault weapons was totally FALSE
Gave seniors property tax relief
Has never been for gay marriage. NEVER! He has been for civil unions and anti-discrimination against gays.
Romney persuaded the U.S. Senate to pass the Defense of Marriage Amendment. On June 22, 2004 he testified before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, urging its members to protect the definition of marriage. “Marriage is not an evolving paradigm,”
On June 2, 2006, Romney sent a letter to each member of the U.S. Senate urging them to vote in favor of the Marriage Protection Amendment.
In 2003 Romney vetoed a bill funding hate crimes prevention
Never voted on Cap and Trade and pulled out of the RGGI.
English immersion in schools
Allowed his State Troopers to enforced Illegal immigration
Increased Troop pay, death benefits, and also allowed any VET free tuition to any State school
Cut Taxes
Eliminated a 3 BILLION deficit (While Gingrich and RS were casting votes on budgets and would go home for the evening, Romney actually had to do the HARD work of balancing a budget and making the tough decisions on what to cut or eliminate)
Romney vetoed his Massachusetts legislature over 800 times in 4 years. Virtually all were overridden–including the entirety of his 8 “Romneycare” vetoes.
Fees were raised because Romney stopped subsidizing departments and made them be more self sufficient. They made people pay for the services they wanted instead of the taxpayers subsidizing them.
Sought to reinstate the Death Penalty
Romney has always been pro-life personally aligned his public vote as a Gov in 2005
In the Massachusetts Senate elections, 2004 and Massachusetts House election, 2004, Romney campaigned heavily to try to recruit Republican candidates to contest seats.

Just for fun I’ll post this for the hundredth time on “Romneycare”:
MA Healthcare differed from what Romney wanted/signed
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68606_Page2.html#ixzz1e23x9FNH

“We knew the next governor was likely going to be a Democrat,” said John McDonough, who at the time was the executive director of Health Care For All, a consumer advocate group. “So Democrats in the state decided to put off key decisions around implementation until a new administration came in.”

And in his book “No Apologies,” Romney concedes: “Even the best written legislation is subject to rulemaking and interpretation by political appointees and it can be adjusted by subsequent administrations.”

Another key difference is that the final bill included a “play-or-pay” provision for small businesses, something Romney had been opposed to from the beginning.

The House added the employer mandate provision — fines for small businesses that did not offer health insurance — and Romney subsequently vetoed the measure. The Legislature overrode his veto, and as a presidential candidate, Romney has been able to defend himself on this point.

Additionally, Romney notes in “No Apologies” that expensive insurance mandates like in vitro fertilization and dental care in “low-cost” insurance plans were also added to the final package despite his vetoes.

McDonough said that every stakeholder in the state, including Romney, ended up agreeing on the pillars of the law that are still in place today, but concedes that the law doesn’t reflect exactly what Romney had in mind for the state.

“The key components from Romney’s original proposal to what was in the final law are all there: insurance market reforms, the individual mandate, subsidies, the exchange,” McDonough said. “But yes, the Legislature filled in the blanks, and it’s markedly different than what he had in mind.”

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

Joana won’t be around after the elections…she is a paid hack, nothing more.

right2bright on February 29, 2012 at 10:59 AM

I swear, if only I knew how one goes about getting one of those dream jobs where you sit around all day and post on blogs no one but political news junkies read and get paid fabulous amounts of money to do it. Surely these uncrupulous campaigns who hire hired guns must advertise somewhere, anywhere. Maybe craigslist? Oh, wait, no. That’s the Democrats.

Maybe these venal, ruthless, amoral political operatives spend countless hours every day scanning hundreds of political posts looking for potential recruits, politically engaged people with a strong writing background ****WILLING TO PROSTITUTE WRITING SKILLS FOR MUCHO DINERO HERE***ALL INQUIRIES WELCOME****.

troyriser_gopftw on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

Fallon, yes, Joana does seem a bit unstable. A more liberal version of Ann Coulter is what I get from her writing.

McDuck on February 29, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Joana won’t be around after the elections…she is a paid hack, nothing more.

right2bright on February 29, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Paid by whom? She says we don’t have a strong candidate. She’s wrong on that point but overall she thinks and writes very well. Unlike cluebats who call her unstable.

Basilsbest on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 12:49 PM

I can understand, and I’ve had enough experience to know when it hurts, it hurts, so I do hope you feel better. I never thought I’d be retired when I was 52.

The injection ain’t so bad,.. though it almost feels like, having a nail dri– wait,.. jes kidding… only a really small nail.. you can laugh, I do.. you have to,.. the alternative is .. not fun.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Maybe these venal, ruthless, amoral political operatives spend countless hours every day scanning hundreds of political posts looking for potential recruits, politically engaged people with a strong writing background ****WILLING TO PROSTITUTE WRITING SKILLS FOR MUCHO DINERO HERE***ALL INQUIRIES WELCOME****.

troyriser_gopftw on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

Who gave you that double-secret info on the conspiracy? It just confirms the obvious fact that anyone who disagrees with me is making millions just to pretend to have a different point of view!1!!11! The truth is out there!1!!11!!
;-)

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM

BakerAllie on February 29, 2012 at 1:02 PM

right back at you only about Santorum.

LOL

gerry-mittbot-bringing education to the great unwashed

gerrym51 on February 29, 2012 at 1:22 PM

Here is the bottom line (IMO) as we move towards Super Tuesday and beyond and what voters are concerned about:
Mitt Romney played to his strengths in Arizona and Michigan, carrying economy voters and those seeking the most electable candidate, according to exit polls conducted for The Associated Press in both states. Romney was able to expand beyond those reliable bases, which have backed him in each state with an exit poll except for South Carolina, and also capture voters focused on a candidate’s experience or concerned about the deficit.” http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2012/02/29/economy_tops_in_early_ariz_mich_exit_polls

as the above HA article mentions that soon RS and Gingrich’s campaigns are going to crack as they have NO organization and have not qualified in several states or districts/counties of states.

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 1:23 PM

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 12:49 PM

I can understand, and I’ve had enough experience to know when it hurts, it hurts, so I do hope you feel better. I never thought I’d be retired when I was 52.
The injection ain’t so bad,.. though it almost feels like, having a nail dri– wait,.. jes kidding… only a really small nail.. you can laugh, I do.. you have to,.. the alternative is .. not fun.
mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Sounds like I might have a couple of years on ya. But, as I said, I’ve been spared, for the most part, any difficult pain in my life. And with what I’ve done to my body over the years that’s something, heh.
I hope you can still be as active as possible. I suspect you are. Hang in there.
I’m fine, the neck’s better already – it’s that internal head-noise when a person turns their neck that was probably most annoying, lol.

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 1:28 PM

Danielvito on February 29, 2012 at 11:57 AM

Daniel, i’ve bee reading your posts. Are you sure your not a democrat?

lol

gerry-mittbot-moderate

gerrym51 on February 29, 2012 at 1:29 PM

Too bad people are actually choosing Romney over Santorum. In fact, it’s not even close. Including blue collar workers.

You know the crazy is strong when they base their rants on premises like “the people are choosing Santorum over Romney”.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:57 PM

ok, you are a feather brain..

we were discussing his appeal in Ohio, if you had read the rest of our exchange, would have been clear…

Ohio,.. where Santorum leads by two digits..

or did you miss that part too?

You have called me crazy in three seperate posts now, either back it down, or put on your big girl pants. I have not called you anything, wasn’t exactly even in tone,.. but never said you were any choice adjective till now.

you jump in halfway through a running thread, and assume we were discussing Michigan or Arizona.. without ever considering we were not.

either apologise for your assumitions, or drop the crybaby wah wah about uncivil people treat you..

I live in Ohio Missey,.. Rick definitely leads here..

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:29 PM

it’s that internal head-noise when a person turns their neck that was probably most annoying, lol.

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 1:28 PM

LOL… you too?

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:31 PM

I live in Ohio Missey,.. Rick definitely leads here..

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:29 PM

Let’s see what it looks like in a couple of days when the fallout from Michigan starts taking effect. And I’m not just talking about Romney’s win, but more the effect of his attempt to get Obama supporters to disrupt the Republican primary by voting for him.

And when Romney has actually started campaigning there.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 1:34 PM

Any GOP candidate whose strategy includes encouraging Dems to not only sabotage a GOP primary but to do it for him is simply not trustworthy. There is no line, however drastic, such a man will not cross in my opinion.Obama style behavior…votes at any cost. S has lost the grudging respect I had for him on some fronts.

jeanie on February 29, 2012 at 12:08 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Now that is rich. I’m laughing so hard, I have to wipe the tears from my eyes.

You do realize that the only reason the Democrats were even able to vote in Michigan is because Romney’s goons had the primary changed from a closed to an open primary.

Now why would they want to do such a thing?

Maybe so the Democrats and Independents would cross over and vote for him. I wonder how many did?

And you have the unmitigated gaul to criticize Santorum for trying to take advantage of the very system Romney’s stooges put in place.

Like I said, that is rich!

http://rebelpundit.com/2012/02/surprise-it-was-romney-backers-that-pushed-for-open-primary-in-michigan/

ariel on February 29, 2012 at 1:39 PM

That’s like saying Paul Krguman is an economist.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 11:57 AM

Not even remotely. Since you appear to be unable to discuss Levin’s commentary on the Constitution, I guess I’ll address your implied ad hominem attack.

I don’t agree with Levin on his presidential pick, but he has not been wrong, once, in my memory, when it comes to discussing matters involving constitutional law and interpretation. His opinionating may be over the top, but he doesn’t broadcast for entertainment purposes. He believes in the United States Constitution and makes no bones about calling out constitutional violations by politicians of both parties. To the extent a caller can take a moment or breath to be educated Levin does so.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 1:41 PM

A poll by PPP came out just before the Michigan election, and they said, the kind of republican people they were phoning, I looked at the poll, they seemed to be using a sample with too many Evangelicals, that Santorum was ahead of Romney on Monday, that was even after they balanced for early voting.

PPP has had trouble with sampling, on purpose or for whatever reason. I would look at those last poll results and compare them with the Fox exit polling. When a poll creates momentum for a candidate, they don’t mind, but when it is lying to them they have to be careful. I will not believe PPP anymore.

PPP incidently said they were republican polls, but some of the callers still identified themselves as democrats. Go figure.

Fleuries on February 29, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Here is a question:
Why are we looking at candidates that are selectively running in certain States and cannot even qualify in others?

When RS and Gingrich, and Paul for that matter, ONLY choose to run say in OH, MI, SC but avoid AZ, NH, ME, NV, etc in RS case or in Gingrich’s case he avoids AZ, MI, ME, NH, and does poorly in the others…Why are we as conservatives and Republicans EVEN considering these candidates because we know Obama is going to campaign strong in ALL of these states. Romney is the ONLY ONE that can and has competed in EVERY primary and Caucus so far…and yet we have Allah and others wondering when he MIGHT drop out…haha seriously!

I know I am a Romney supporter but what I just mentioned above is a fact and wonder why we are looking at candidates that cannot run a national campaign…and this is the primaries!

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 1:44 PM

it’s that internal head-noise when a person turns their neck that was probably most annoying, lol.
whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 1:28 PM

LOL… you too?
mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Heh, yup – but I imagine it’s pretty common for anyone who has a bit of a “crinked neck”. Sounds worse than it is, like Lord knows what is being ripped apart when you turn your neck. The human noggin just seems to make for a good amplification chamber.

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 1:45 PM

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Brilliant point! How can one argue with that logic at all?

leftophobe on February 29, 2012 at 1:48 PM

I will not believe PPP anymore.

Better late than never.

EricW on February 29, 2012 at 1:51 PM

I would expect Santorum to do well in rust belt states, because that is the kind of voter he is used to in Western PA. He knows the lingo, talks down to people, like that thing he said about Obama being a snob for saying people should go to school. He is pandering to the people he thinks are in Michigan and Ohio. Santorum, himself, went to law school, so it is ok for me but not for thee.

He is playing class warfare in his language. His plans call for more tax breaks for manufacturing than for other people. That is no different than selecting green energy manufacturers to favor. They are still manufacturing jobs, something else durable instead of solar panels.

And what about everyone else that does not derive their income from manufacturing? No pandering for us? Santorum likes one club more, a club to which he doesn’t even belong. He makes his money as a Fox news commentator ($300K) and as a liason from government to industry whatever…a lobbyist.

Fleuries on February 29, 2012 at 1:51 PM

I live in Ohio Missey,.. Rick definitely leads here..

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:29 PM

Let’s see what it looks like in a couple of days when the fallout from Michigan starts taking effect. And I’m not just talking about Romney’s win, but more the effect of his attempt to get Obama supporters to disrupt the Republican primary by voting for him.

And when Romney has actually started campaigning there.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 1:34 PM

I wasn’t watching last night, the kids were sick.. I tune in this morning and this is the first I’ve seen of this supposed collusion with the democrats..

I take no Mitt partisans word on anything, and I’ll look into it, see what the less agenda driven say about it first. If Rick did something dishonorable, I’ve changed my mind before, we’ll see.

as to the numbers now,.. they are what they are.

You can cram every excuse you want into this argument, and it still boils down to,.. Romney can’t quite connect with the base. Barring something else happening, that hasn’t changed much. He generates no enthusiasm, no matter how many of his voters here gush and giggle over his every word…

They might vote for him,..

but only you in the nobody but Mitt crowd are happy about that.. you wanna play back in here how many Romney voters will do so, even though he sucks? There are plenty who are holding their noses.. so there is no enthusiasm here..

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:53 PM

You do realize that the only reason the Democrats were even able to vote in Michigan is because Romney’s goons had the primary changed from a closed to an open primary.

Now why would they want to do such a thing?

Maybe so the Democrats and Independents would cross over and vote for him. I wonder how many did?

And you have the unmitigated gaul to criticize Santorum for trying to take advantage of the very system Romney’s stooges put in place.

Like I said, that is rich!

http://rebelpundit.com/2012/02/surprise-it-was-romney-backers-that-pushed-for-open-primary-in-michigan/

ariel on February 29, 2012 at 1:39 PM

ariel…you realize these are Michigan ELECTED officials by the voters of Michigan…so you can name call them “Romney goons” but that is fairly disrespectful to the voters of MI who elected them.

Also one other point, Romney, or ANY other candidate, has NO CONTROL from state to state what that State does primary rule-wise. ALL the candidates just show up and observe and participate according to what the rules are…so for you to laugh and attribute this to “Romney goons” is weak especially when these rules are voted and put in place WAY BEFORE the primary takes place.

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 1:53 PM

And you have the unmitigated gaul to criticize Santorum for trying to take advantage of the very system Romney’s stooges put in place.

ariel on February 29, 2012 at 1:39 PM

The difference is Romney did not actively try to get people who would never support him in the general to influence the outcome of the Republican primary. Maybe you can’t (or just don’t want to) see the difference, but there is one, and there will be fallout for Santorum.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 1:54 PM

g2825m

Here is the semantic problem, it’s not that they are not running in a lot of those states, they are just saying: Don’t look at my results in that state, I am not trying hard there.

And of course, they failed to get on ballots, which, is a CHOICE, the result of a lack of effort and fore sight.

So you can’t accuse Rick Santorum of failing in his home state (for the last four years, VA) to get on the ballot or doing poorly in his own home state, or his native state, he was born there, or his adopted home state (while he was a Senator he was a PA resident.) And when he lost his home state in his last Senatorial campaign, that can’t count because it was so unfair to look at his results last time.

If your name is on the ballot, and like Gingrich last night, you did not get many votes in MI, THAT IS your results, you did poorly.

Fleuries on February 29, 2012 at 1:57 PM

I don’t have time to read 300+ posts. Did anyone explain why Romney has two huge wins last night and the loser has his face on the website? Or is this more Morrissey bias in favor of Santorum?

cd98 on February 29, 2012 at 1:57 PM

Romney attacks Rick’s Catholic faith,.. that will change..

Dividing the vote with aatcking somebody’s religion is the LAST thing Romney should want..

do you get.. that?

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 10:40 AM

But Romney won’t attack the Catholic faith. That’s just wishful thinking.

Gelsomina on February 29, 2012 at 1:57 PM

Maybe these venal, ruthless, amoral political operatives spend countless hours every day scanning

hundreds of political posts looking for potential recruits, politically engaged people with a strong writing background ****WILLING TO PROSTITUTE WRITING SKILLS FOR MUCHO DINERO HERE***ALL INQUIRIES WELCOME****.

troyriser_gopftw on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

Who gave you that double-secret info on the conspiracy? It just confirms the obvious fact that anyone who disagrees with me is making millions just to pretend to have a different point of view!1!!11! The truth is out there!1!!11!!
;-)

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM

This is too funny. I needed the laugh today. I think we should all apply for the job!

Slainte on February 29, 2012 at 1:58 PM

He is playing class warfare in his language. His plans call for more tax breaks for manufacturing than for other people. That is no different than selecting green energy manufacturers to favor. They are still manufacturing jobs, something else durable instead of solar panels.

And what about everyone else that does not derive their income from manufacturing? No pandering for us? Santorum likes one club more, a club to which he doesn’t even belong. He makes his money as a Fox news commentator ($300K) and as a liason from government to industry whatever…a lobbyist.

Fleuries on February 29, 2012 at 1:51 PM

Fleuries…I think it was Thomas Sowell…I could be wrong here…that he said this is a DANGEROUS slope because all of a sudden EVERYONE will be a “manufacturer” of a good or service and it will create a black market and tax evasion or loopholes so one can qualify as a Manufacturer. You are correct in that this is just like Obama in selecting “Green Companies” for subsidies.

now that I think about it more, all of those of us with kids can qualify for an additional tax credit because after all we “manufactured” those kids! Actually this may not be a bad idea as family size will increase and those seeking abortions will now have second thoughts because they, dangit, want that tax credit!

Hmmmmm….need to ponder on this.

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:00 PM

But Romney won’t attack the Catholic faith. That’s just wishful thinking.

Gelsomina on February 29, 2012 at 1:57 PM

And he won the Catholic vote last night.

leftophobe on February 29, 2012 at 2:01 PM

You can cram every excuse you want into this argument, and it still boils down to,.. Romney can’t quite connect with the base. Barring something else happening, that hasn’t changed much. He generates no enthusiasm, no matter how many of his voters here gush and giggle over his every word…

They might vote for him,..

but only you in the nobody but Mitt crowd are happy about that.. you wanna play back in here how many Romney voters will do so, even though he sucks? There are plenty who are holding their noses.. so there is no enthusiasm here..

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 1:53 PM

I feel no need to cram any excuse anywhere. Romney will either win, or he won’t based on whether he can convince people to vote for him, or he can’t. Outside of a few outliers here at HA, I don’t understand where you get this “gush and giggle over his every word” stuff.

And I’m not in any “nobody but Mitt crowd” – I will vote for whoever the nominee is. I just happen to think that Romney is much more qualified to be President than any of the other candidates. And that he’s not anywhere near as bad as the ABR crowd tries to paint him to be.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:01 PM

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Brilliant point! How can one argue with that logic at all?

leftophobe on February 29, 2012 at 1:48 PM

Why, thank you! I have always thought this and FINALLY put it down here in print! We need someone that HAS and CAN compete nationally! This SHOULD be a clue to all the other supporters of other candidates that their guy cannot even run in EVERY state! What does that say about his chances against Obama? Just sayin’…

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:04 PM

I’d say that maybe, maybe, there are better “educators” out there than the nutjob Mark Levin. It seems his cult followers aren’t very well informed.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Nice. I have yet to imply (as you have of other posters, me included) that you are stupid. More of your rudeness and I just might say it out right. You obviously haven’t listened to Levin on a regular basis.

My opinion that he is a constitutional scholar has yet to be refuted by you. Calling me a cult member is unnecessary and out of the bounds of propriety.

I made not one comment lauding Levin’s political picks, yet you focused on who he purportedly supports for president and who he supported against McCain, 4 years ago. If you listened to him you would know that he has consistently maintained that any of the four remaining would be better than Obama and he will support the eventual republican candidate.

To suggest he knew nothing about Romney Care is laughable and obnoxious. It wasn’t an issue 4 years ago because no one, including Romney, was making national government-run healthcare promises except the democrat candidates, and the healthcare industry had yet to be nationalized.

Now that we have Obama Care in place, we have to deal with Romney Care and how Obama is going to handle Romney on that issue. I think it’s a weak spot for Romney; one that he’d best have a good answer for to counter Obama’s inevitable, “Hey, I just copied the Mass health care law you signed into place, Mitt” attitude and answer in any debate.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:07 PM

According to our source, “with a large TNT bomb they blew the door off the hinges to allow Democrats to come in and vote today.” Who opposed this open primary rule? According to the MRSC member we talked to, die hard conservatives voted NO on the open primary because they knew anything other than a caucus or convention could allow liberals and Democrats to play a large role in selecting the Republican nominee. In the end, Romney’s supporters on the committee from Wayne County and Oakland County won out, believing the influx of Democrats and independents would boost Romney’s performance.

Romney today is bemoaning the possibility of Democrats influencing then outcome of today’s election. He should recall it was his own prominent establishment Republican supporters across Michigan who made this possible.

well, thanks..

Like I said, that is rich!

http://rebelpundit.com/2012/02/surprise-it-was-romney-backers-that-pushed-for-open-primary-in-michigan/

ariel on February 29, 2012 at 1:39 PM

This is useful…

So,… the Romney machine, playing filthy dirty as usual,.. does this.. and you mopes are whining about Rick calling in union favors?

really?

So is it playing dirty only when you turn the tables on the head crook?

You people are lame….

cue Joana to leap in and start calling everyone teh crazy…

The Romney machine is playing dirty, so Santorum,.. shocks.. SHOCKS I SAY, the ROMNEY partisans, by using Romneys own tactic against him..

It doesn’t make me feel good about

either

guy, but to paint this as poo widdle Mitt, so picked on, is beyond pathetic. Romney has pioneered whole new levels of dirty tricks,.. and his crew complain about Rick’s?

so how’s about Mitt tell his homey’s to lay off the monkey shines with dirty tricks, then he doesn’t need worry one will bite him back.. how about that guys..

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 2:08 PM

What does that say about his chances against Obama? Just sayin’…

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Add that to his inability to reach out to independents and he is dead on arrival.

leftophobe on February 29, 2012 at 2:11 PM

Let me add a bit of something for you, something I’m sure Romney was called out for by all those stupid radio pundits, Levin included:

Apparently, Romney promised to work for health care for all Americans in 2008. Still confident that he will urge Congress to repeal Obamacare and its unconstitutional mandate?

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:12 PM

My opinion that he is a constitutional scholar has yet to be refuted by you.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:07 PM

Nobody’s going to refute that, but I will call its relevance into question. After all, Obama is a constitutional scholar too.

Levin’s problem is that he’s an abrasive a$$. If he wasn’t he could have the potential to be a much greater positive influence on the political discussion in the country today.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:14 PM

It wasn’t an issue 4 years ago because no one, including Romney, was making national government-run healthcare promises except the democrat candidates, and the healthcare industry had yet to be nationalized.

Now that we have Obama Care in place, we have to deal with Romney Care and how Obama is going to handle Romney on that issue. I think it’s a weak spot for Romney; one that he’d best have a good answer for to counter Obama’s inevitable, “Hey, I just copied the Mass health care law you signed into place, Mitt” attitude and answer in any debate.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:07 PM

As a Romney supporter, thank you for stating the above correctly that Romney NEVER intended this to be a national plan. So kudos to you for being fair there.

I still do NOT think this will be a BIG issue for Romney, one, the SCOTUS will have come to some decision by the Fall, two, Romney can tell Obama, if you were thinking about doing it, WHY did you not contact ME and I would have told you that OUR MA plan will NOT work nationally, and three, it is not Constitutional…well as of right now that is what we believe. It will be interesting to see how the vote comes out later this summer.

In fact the RESULTS of the SCOTUS decision can be an attack that Romney can go after Obama on that if upheld he can tell the voters he NEEDS to be elected because he will elect STRICT Constitutionalist’s and if it is struck down the same argument only that Romney will make sure that the SCOTUS never has to face a vote like that again as it will be doomed with a conservative SC.

As far as Obamacare, the HOUSE that controls the purse strings, NEEDS to be starving this bill to death and are already implementing some of it!

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:17 PM

Paid by whom? She says we don’t have a strong candidate. She’s wrong on that point but overall she thinks and writes very well. Unlike cluebats who call her unstable.

Basilsbest on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

Last election we had the same thing…the name escapes me, manlyrush perhaps, I called him out, and was I ridiculed by many because he was such a great poster…I teased him relentlessly, and he of course denied it, but he was too well prepared, and too “new”, and just too smooth…he eventually revealed that he was a paid poster, and suddenly “everyone” knew he was…
She isn’t “unstable” quite the opposite, she is very professional…as manlyrush (I am pretty sure that was his name), and I don’t know how well paid, but these guys and gals (how would one know the gender?) are now part of the political scene.
You don’t think dems have operatives registered on this site?
No, they are not usually the obnoxious ones…

right2bright on February 29, 2012 at 2:18 PM

guy, but to paint this as poo widdle Mitt, so picked on, is beyond pathetic. Romney has pioneered whole new levels of dirty tricks,.. and his crew complain about Rick’s?

so how’s about Mitt tell his homey’s to lay off the monkey shines with dirty tricks, then he doesn’t need worry one will bite him back.. how about that guys..

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 2:08 PM

It’s politics therefore it’s going to be dirty and anything not illegal is fair game. The candidates just have to be prepared to deal with the fallout from the tactics they choose to employ. The voters will determine whether Romney’s attack ads are as off-turning as Santorum’s appealing to Obama supporters was.

And the whole “Romney has pioneered whole new levels of dirty tricks” is just absurd. What Romney has done is nothing compared to what has been done in elections dating back to the 1800s. At least he hasn’t accused Newt of dancing around in women’s underwear. Yet.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:18 PM

The difference is Romney did not actively try to get people who would never support him in the general to influence the outcome of the Republican primary.

Oh really,

You mean as when Romney crossed over and voted for Paul Tsongas in the 1992 Massachusetts Democratic Presidential Primary because, as he himself said, Tsongas was the least electable Democrat candidate. Kind of a one man “operation chaos”, if you will.

“When there was no real contest in the Republican primary, I’d vote in the Democrat primary, vote for the person who I thought would be the weakest opponent for the Republican.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2007/02/romney_explains/

So now Romney’s complaining about Santorum encouraging Democrat voters to do the same thing Romney had done before, cross over.

Can anyone see the irony here?

ariel on February 29, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Nobody’s going to refute that, but I will call its relevance into question. After all, Obama is a constitutional scholar too.

Take it from a practicing attorney: no, he’s not. I don’t say that because I disagree with him. I say that because he doesn’t rise to the level of the leftist constitutional scholars that taught at my law school. I don’t agree with them, either, but I can’t say they’re not scholars. I can say that about our sitting president, however.

The entire conversation started out as a reply to a statement about Levin being nothing more than an entertaining hack, not fit to step near the shoes of W. Buckley, let alone try to fill them. (I seriously doubt Levin even thinks Buckley is anywhere near as right-wing as Levin is when it comes to the Constitution.) So, the comment is absolutely relevant.

I won’t disagree that Levin is abrasive. That trait turned me off of listening to him for a long time. It was a difficult thing to get past. Once I started to listen, however, I did get past it to find the intellect behind it. Is he arrogant in his intellect? At times. But he’s also humble at times and gives a crap about how the U.S. Constitution is being trampled every single day. On that, he and I agree.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:22 PM

You mean as when Romney crossed over and voted for Paul Tsongas in the 1992 Massachusetts Democratic Presidential Primary because, as he himself said, Tsongas was the least electable Democrat candidate. Kind of a one man “operation chaos”, if you will.

ariel on February 29, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Sure – and I don’t hold anything against Romney for doing that nor do I hold anything against the individual Democrats who voted in MI yesterday.

I do think it reflects poorly on Santorum to ask for that kind of support.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:23 PM

Rick Santorum. Really. Is this the best that we can do?

Old Fritz on February 29, 2012 at 2:23 PM

Let me add a bit of something for you, something I’m sure Romney was called out for by all those stupid radio pundits, Levin included:

Apparently, Romney promised to work for health care for all Americans in 2008. Still confident that he will urge Congress to repeal Obamacare and its unconstitutional mandate?

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:12 PM

to the right…
What Romney has stated over and over, because Healthcare is still a national issue that is draining states of funding, is that he would work with fellow governors and show him what works and what doesn’t and allow them (per 10th Amendment) to implement what works for their particular constituency. Nothing more than that…there is no secret, cynical, liberal plan. :o)

Utah is another State that has tried to shore up its uninsured through their “own state experiment.” THIS should be encouraged by ALL states as the Founders intended. Handle YOUR OWN issues and leave the Federal Gov’t out of it! What MA attempted to do and succeeded on SOME levels.

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:26 PM

I won’t disagree that Levin is abrasive. That trait turned me off of listening to him for a long time. It was a difficult thing to get past. Once I started to listen, however, I did get past it to find the intellect behind it. Is he arrogant in his intellect? At times. But he’s also humble at times and gives a crap about how the U.S. Constitution is being trampled every single day. On that, he and I agree.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Occasionally I force myself to put up with him as well, because in the end I’m with both him and you on this last statement.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:26 PM

To g2825m

To me it is one of those campaign promises, more like the ones Newt makes, that are pipe dreams and good ideas on the fly, but they don’t have details or the impact of what they propose. The more realistic you are, the more you see that we have to get the economy going to grow out of the Obama new normal Flat Line, and some things might just be experiments.

The minute a new republican president takes office you cannot end all the food programs, welfare, unemployment and drop people off the cliff, cue up the granny she is going over. Bold this and Bold that might get this highly desired fist pumping at campaign rallies, but no scenarios of from here to there are offered except with Romney. OOooh it’s too detailed and hard to read, not sexy enough, not my duty to actually read it. I would take Paul Ryan to Newt Gingrich any day, Substance over Style.

Fleuries on February 29, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Gotta love the baseless ad hominem attacks.

Foxhound on February 29, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Exactly the kind of response when I exposed the last pro, only you are much nicer, they were wrong also…gotta love the posters who stick their head in the sand.
This is the third time I have made that accusation, and the other two were right…you guys were wrong.

right2bright on February 29, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Outside of a few outliers here at HA, I don’t understand where you get this “gush and giggle over his every word” stuff.

And I’m not in any “nobody but Mitt crowd” – I will vote for whoever the nominee is. I just happen to think that Romney is much more qualified to be President than any of the other candidates. And that he’s not anywhere near as bad as the ABR crowd tries to paint him to be.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:01 PM

oh good God, do you even read these threads?

Try Joanna, CDSeven, Bluegill and on and on.. Princilla, MJBrutus and the rest,.. look into this group first, and check around for more, they are plentiful..

And I’m not in any “nobody but Mitt crowd”

then you write,

he’s not anywhere near as bad as the ABR crowd tries to paint him to be.

oh ok, you aren’t to be labeled… but you go right on and label all of us.. sorry, I’ve had Romney voter after Romney voter tell me the same, then within three lines tell me how crazy we all are for not reaching your exact same conclusion.

The fact is NONE of these people are as bad as their opponents claim them to be. You have a right to your opinion, fine, that’s good,.. what got the previous line started, was St. Joanna of the Aggrieved once again, calling myself and another teh crazy, for a conversation she didn’t even understand was about Ohio.

If I sound angry, understand, my arthur is acting up, and three times today, I’ve had one of those nearly nonexistent outliers call me nutz..

and she didn’t even get her facts right..

so forgive the tone,.. I’m tired of being insulted by self selected experts whose opinion, carries no more weight than anyone elses.

,,,

ok.. sorry about the tone..

but those are the norm, the outliers here are the older commenters like Hawkdriver and Cindy Munford who exude class.

I wish we all could go there..

but, it’s not likely.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 2:28 PM

Take it from a practicing attorney: no, he’s not. I don’t say that because I disagree with him. I say that because he doesn’t rise to the level of the leftist constitutional scholars that taught at my law school. I don’t agree with them, either, but I can’t say they’re not scholars. I can say that about our sitting president, however.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:22 PM

but then again how do WE REALLY KNOW?? hahaha We have not seen ANY records on this guy!

Good post, to the right…
I love Levin’s books and I am flustered that he and Rush are so outwardly anti-Romney currently. Frankly, they have ticked many conservatives off as they have mocked us for supporting Romney and yet we are JUST AS CONSERVATIVE as they are…we just disagree on what they “see” in Romney versus what we “see” in him. I think it is one of those “agree to disagree” but the verbal slinging on here has been fairly rough.

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:32 PM

Ariel,

My recollection on that Tsongas primary was that he was running against Kennedy, and Romney wanted to vote against Ted Kennedy.
People feel they have more power doing that here, because they may not care which republican is on the ballot, if they like them both and know they will support it. It is different to vote that way yourself than to advertise to people from your campaign to do it. Romney did not hold Republican office until 2002, he was a private individual.

Fleuries on February 29, 2012 at 2:35 PM

ariel…you realize these are Michigan ELECTED officials by the voters of Michigan…so you can name call them “Romney goons” but that is fairly disrespectful to the voters of MI who elected them. g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 1:53 PM

You’ve stumbled upon the source of my ire. We Republicans in Michigan did not elect our leaders to be shills for the Romney campaign. We voted for them to honor their word and stand up for conservative principles.

The fact that this cartel of Romney backers manipulated the process to order to ensure Romney’s victory infuriates me no end, especially since I voted for some of these weasels against their Democrat opponents. I now rue my votes, for the Republican party in Michigan has proved itself every bit as corrupt and unprincipled as the Democrats.

When both parties play dirty, who is there to trust?

ariel on February 29, 2012 at 2:36 PM

And the whole “Romney has pioneered whole new levels of dirty tricks” is just absurd. What Romney has done is nothing compared to what has been done in elections dating back to the 1800s. At least he hasn’t accused Newt of dancing around in women’s underwear. Yet.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:18 PM

somebody has?

People tend to get tunnul vision about what they have experience with as opposed to what has gone on before in history. They accused Lincoln of being related to an ape,.. and all that.. but we tend to think of what we know, my first election of being aware was the 76 election, I was 16 and in High School, not voting age yet.

and with no cable, no internet, and no alternative news, politics did seem cleaner then,.. maybe they weren’t, but that wasn’t readily apparent.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 2:36 PM

It is amusing how some of the more extreme Romney supporters say sweet things to each other. Nice little cult there. When Obama wins in November, the tears will be epic.

Oh well, the GOP deserves what is coming. When the main pools you have to draw from are the boring country clubbers and annoying theocrats, you are bound to end up in history’s rubbish bin at some point.

McDuck on February 29, 2012 at 2:37 PM

Joana won’t be around after the elections…she is a paid hack, nothing more.

right2bright on February 29, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Paid by whom? She says we don’t have a strong candidate. She’s wrong on that point but overall she thinks and writes very well. Unlike cluebats who call her unstable.

Basilsbest on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

that’s their problem with her, she’s very informed (she probably has an advanced degree in pol sci, and I suspect she’s an academic too) and she doesn’t talk nonsense like most on HA…besides, she doesn’t copy and paste or link to political pieces, she is capable of making her own analysis, which is what distinguishes her from the rest of the HA comemnters…

jimver on February 29, 2012 at 2:40 PM

oh good God, do you even read these threads?

Try Joanna, CDSeven, Bluegill and on and on.. Princilla, MJBrutus and the rest,.. look into this group first, and check around for more, they are plentiful..

Why do you even waste your time here if it’s so overrun by nutjobs? I happen to think the majority of posters here are actually sane human beings.

And I’m not in any “nobody but Mitt crowd”

then you write,

he’s not anywhere near as bad as the ABR crowd tries to paint him to be.

oh ok, you aren’t to be labeled… but you go right on and label all of us.. sorry, I’ve had Romney voter after Romney voter tell me the same, then within three lines tell me how crazy we all are for not reaching your exact same conclusion.

Label me all you want, just do it correctly. I specifically said I wasn’t in the “nobody but Mitt crowd” because I will happily support whichever of the candidates becomes the nominee. You’re more than welcome to call me a “mittbot” or any of the other terms used to describe Romney supporters. Just please try and stay away from “Romney rump licker” and “butt hurt Romney supporter”. Those ones piss me off.

The fact is NONE of these people are as bad as their opponents claim them to be. You have a right to your opinion, fine, that’s good,.. what got the previous line started, was St. Joanna of the Aggrieved once again, calling myself and another teh crazy, for a conversation she didn’t even understand was about Ohio.

If I sound angry, understand, my arthur is acting up, and three times today, I’ve had one of those nearly nonexistent outliers call me nutz..

and she didn’t even get her facts right..

so forgive the tone,.. I’m tired of being insulted by self selected experts whose opinion, carries no more weight than anyone elses.

,,,

ok.. sorry about the tone..

but those are the norm, the outliers here are the older commenters like Hawkdriver and Cindy Munford who exude class.

I wish we all could go there..

but, it’s not likely.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 2:28 PM

We can at least try.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:41 PM

When both parties play dirty, who is there to trust?

ariel on February 29, 2012 at 2:36 PM

Hope and Chan….errrr….I guess we always have American Idol. ;o)

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:43 PM

gives a crap about how the U.S. Constitution is being trampled every single day. On that, he and I agree.
totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Meh. You can’t swing a dead rat in a circle without hitting at least a dozen “conservative” shock-jocks railing about trampled Consitutions. Hardly unique. They know which side their bread is buttered, they’re not going to draw many listeners with thoughtful discussions on the sociological importance of Kurt Cobain lyrics.

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM

It is amusing how some of the more extreme Romney supporters say sweet things to each other. Nice little cult there. When Obama wins in November, the tears will be epic.

Oh well, the GOP deserves what is coming. When the main pools you have to draw from are the boring country clubbers and annoying theocrats, you are bound to end up in history’s rubbish bin at some point.

McDuck on February 29, 2012 at 2:37 PM

right2bright…I think we found one of your paid bloggers! ;o)

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM

As someone who actually is an academic, I don’t get such a vibe from Joana. If I am wrong, she is free to correct me.

McDuck on February 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM

jimver on February 29, 2012 at 2:40 PM

no, our problem with her, is she jumps into conversations mid thread, makes assumptions about fact which are incorrect, then spouts off about our being teh crazy and unstable,

tell her to knock off the insults, people get sick of that pretty quick.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Utah is another State that has tried to shore up its uninsured through their “own state experiment.” THIS should be encouraged by ALL states as the Founders intended. Handle YOUR OWN issues and leave the Federal Gov’t out of it! What MA attempted to do and succeeded on SOME levels.

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:26 PM

If that is what he meant, great. I still think he has to have a great reply to Obama’s guaranteed exploitation of the sound-bite and the enactment of the Mass law. Not just one we here understand, but one the average voter can get. That might be tough.

I sure hope you are right. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Though Mitt (and I’m from Michigan) isn’t my first choice, I’ll stand behind him in the general. ABO is my motto and creed this year.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:48 PM

tell her to knock off the insults, people get sick of that pretty quick.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 2:47 PM

what do you call ‘insults’? most people here address each other with ‘d-bag’, moron’, ‘idot’ I am talking about people who are on different sides…can you find a post where she used those ‘qualifiers’?

jimver on February 29, 2012 at 2:50 PM

g2825m, I am venting. I think our party’s tent has become so small that we are in danger of becoming irrelevant.

I don’t want to see Obama win, but odds are good that he will. Romney is not a good candidate. Santorum is even worse. Frustrating times.

McDuck on February 29, 2012 at 2:53 PM

They know which side their bread is buttered, they’re not going to draw many listeners with thoughtful discussions on the sociological importance of Kurt Cobain lyrics.

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM

And here I thought he was the starting point guard for the NY Knicks that everyone is raving about! Huh? Who knew? / haha

On a side note, why is it that many great music writers have to go and off themselves. Michael Hutchence was another that ticked me off.

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:54 PM

ABO is my motto and creed this year.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:48 PM

hat tip!

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:55 PM

what do you call ‘insults’? most people here address each other with ‘d-bag’, moron’, ‘idot’ I am talking about people who are on different sides…can you find a post where she used those ‘qualifiers’?

jimver on February 29, 2012 at 2:50 PM

No. She calls people cult members, crazy and ill-informed. She posts veiled insults implying that anyone who doesn’t toe her line is stupid. So, you’re right. She may not use the words, “‘d-bag’, moron’, ‘idot’”, she might as well. I think I’d prefer it if she was honest enough to do so, actually.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:55 PM

We can at least try.

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 2:41 PM

Granted,… I have already sworn off the use of bott, droid, drone, any and all negatives.. in my small concession to party unity and all, I simply write Romney voter now, or fan..

I really doubt much will change, and yes, most are sane decent people, but you’d hardly know it sometimes.

You seem pretty reasonable, there is no beef between us.. and I’m am sorry if my tone earlier was angry. That wasn’t your doing.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 2:55 PM

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Do you really think that the 47% of Michigan Republicans who voted for Romney are cold, uncaring and soulless and don’t know what a gallon of milk costs?

Whereas the 53% of Michigan Democrats who voted for Santorum are homey family guys who don’t think that having religious views makes you some kind of freak?

That’s just not realistic.

Look at the results in Arizona.

YOU hate Romney because he’s rich, but a majority of Republicans obviously doesn’t feel that way.

Gelsomina on February 29, 2012 at 2:55 PM

Let me correct: Though she may not use the words “‘d-bag’, moron’,and ‘idot’”, she might as well.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 2:57 PM

g2825m, I am venting. I think our party’s tent has become so small that we are in danger of becoming irrelevant.

I don’t want to see Obama win, but odds are good that he will. Romney is not a good candidate. Santorum is even worse. Frustrating times.

McDuck on February 29, 2012 at 2:53 PM

I know you are…I support Romney but understand people see things differently than I do about him. My main hope is that people will ALL come together in NOV to make this guy (Obama) a one-timer!

Can you imagine HOW MUCH MORE MONEY Michelle will cost the taxpayers if she is in the WH for another four years?! That should be motivation enough for people.

g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:59 PM

As to the other GOP senators elected back in the 19th Century, I thank you again for bolstering my point: since WW II, every senator nominated by the GOP for president has LOST.

matthew8787 on February 29, 2012 at 12:24 PM

No Mormon has ever won either…no vegetarian has ever won…no woman has ever won…no Seventh Day Adventist has won…but you know who has won? A Catholic…oh oh, your little “tidbit analysis” just took a hit.

right2bright on February 29, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Pathetic and trite. You transitioned facts into hypotheticals. A ham sandwich hasn’t been elected POTUS, either. You cannot refute the fact that, in the post WW II modern American era, GOP governors win the presidency and every senator the GOP has nominated has crashed and burned. Make of it as you will. You wanted to compare Romney with Gerald Ford and others — I am offering a competing framework that has compelling validity.

It would be a fatal mistake for the GOP to nominate Santorum — or any other member of Congress. They carry the burden of a congressional voting record that gets picked to death.

matthew8787 on February 29, 2012 at 3:00 PM

I did not know Levin had done so.. I was not connected that year much.. was still recovering from a cervical reconstruction, so I had other things to think about.
mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 12:25 PM

Sorry to hear that. Cervical reconstruction – does that mean neck surgery? That sounds very painful. I hope you are better now?

Gelsomina on February 29, 2012 at 3:03 PM

what do you call ‘insults’? most people here address each other with ‘d-bag’, moron’, ‘idot’ I am talking about people who are on different sides…can you find a post where she used those ‘qualifiers’?

jimver on February 29, 2012 at 2:50 PM

Look, “teh crazy”, “cultist” and “mentally unstable” you consider terms of endearment?.. check page three,.. I’m tired and sore, and I don’t feel like finding her exact lines.

I finally snapped an insult back after the third time,.. I have never addressed her as anything but Miss or Missey, something I call all younger women.. Nobody is saying you can’t like or agree with her, but she’s no innocent here.

I’d talk to her if she refrained form the verbal grenades.. How can we ever come back together after this, if so many bridges are burned. Having an opinion different doesn’t make her crazy, it doesn’t us either.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 3:06 PM

They know which side their bread is buttered, they’re not going to draw many listeners with thoughtful discussions on the sociological importance of Kurt Cobain lyrics.
whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM

And here I thought he was the starting point guard for the NY Knicks that everyone is raving about! Huh? Who knew? / haha
On a side note, why is it that many great music writers have to go and off themselves. Michael Hutchence was another that ticked me off.
g2825m on February 29, 2012 at 2:54 PM

I suspect we have different notions of great music writers, as most of mine have probably passed on of natural causes. No auto-erotic fatal mishaps in my group – far as I know, lol, I’m more likely to be humming a Mancini tune than an INXS one. (Moooon river…)

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 3:09 PM

Sorry to hear that. Cervical reconstruction – does that mean neck surgery? That sounds very painful. I hope you are better now?

Gelsomina on February 29, 2012 at 3:03 PM

healed..

but I’ll still have to have a lumbar surgery at some point. I have to get an epideral shot there tomorrow. Short vesion, I broke my back in 91, then again in 04, severe arthrits caused 4 points of stenosis in my neck, which was surgically rebuilt, c-3 to t-1. about 4 inches of my neck are largely artificial.

Retired, disability..

but, I do ok,.. much better than the doctors expect, something about being a stubborn mule… or something..

but I’m ok..

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Too bad people are actually choosing Romney over Santorum. In fact, it’s not even close. Including blue collar workers.

You know the crazy is strong when they base their rants on premises like “the people are choosing Santorum over Romney”.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Read it again, Einstein. You even put it in bold. I didn’t say everyone was voting for Santorum, I said “people”.

Generally, I think you are right about the reasons people are choosing Santorum over Romney.

So, you know you are crazy when you assume someone is for Santorum just because they think Romney is a droid.

Lightswitch on February 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM

But those voters are a minority. Romney is the most popular candidate with the conservative and republican electorate – including the average worker.

In fact, so far Santorum has won three non-binding caucus – the average worker is usually underepresented in those, which tend to be dominated by the establishment/party activists, than in primaries.

Let’s just do a small exercise. Here are the states Santorum won, the amount of raw votes he got and what those votes represent in terms of registered voters in the state:

Iowa – 29,839 – 1.2%
Colorado – 26,614 – 0.8%
Minnesota – 21,988 – 0.7%

This is a guy who can win – as long as only 1 out of 100 people bother to vote. Which is not surprising, considering he can’t even organize a campaign professional enough to get on the ballot in key states. And he’s supposed to defeat the Obama machine in a few weeks?

And looking at the exit polls, a larger percentage of Romney supporters votes for Romney than Santorum supporters are voting for him.

Basically nobody is voting for Santorum. He isn’t connecting to anyone except with a handful of freaks. The fact that he was months in the race and never polled above 2% demonstrates that. He’s even less charismatic than Romney and, to many people, he adds a dimension of being whiny, angry and negative that is quite repulsive.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 3:12 PM

I’m sorry, but I’m old enough to remember these elections.

Gladtobehere on February 29, 2012 at 12:41 PM

I am to and I have to still disagree. My family were firm democrats and my GranpDa crossed over in 80 for Reagan. He was definitely a political figure and we weren’t even republicans. He was famously a target of the radical campus left in the late 60s an as you pointed out he already ran against President(not VP then) Ford in 76. He was at least as well known in 76 nationally as say Pat Buchanan is now. Reagan had been a heavy hitter over decade by 79. The Bed time for bonzo stuff was news to younger voters. It got played a lot on TV AFTER the 78 season.

But it’s a small disagreement.

BoxHead1 on February 29, 2012 at 3:12 PM

gotta sign out… kids are gettin out of school, the two who weren’t sick this morning.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 3:17 PM

but I’ll still have to have a lumbar surgery at some point. I have to get an epideral shot there tomorrow.

mark81150 on February 29, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Couple of years ago I had a cortisone shot in my spine to help with the pain from a herniated disc. Not to cause you any undue worry, but the shot was worse than the back pain…

Good luck!

gotsig on February 29, 2012 at 3:21 PM

He was at least as well known in 76 nationally as say Pat Buchanan is now. Reagan had been a heavy hitter over decade by 79.
BoxHead1 on February 29, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Indeed. Here he is with Bobby Kennedy in 1967 where they’re both taking on some Brit total jerk:
Reagan and RFK (1967)

whatcat on February 29, 2012 at 3:25 PM

So yeah, I don’t think Romney will be “smacking down Wall Street” – and to me, that’s a great thing. I want him to get the government out of the way and allow Wall Street to prosper even more, not help or “smack them down” as you, with your pathetic resentment and jealousy, do.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 12:26 PM

Well, if you want your president a puppet, and controlled by a group you deem “above the law and pure”, than you do have the right man.
No group should control the presidency, no matter how you paint them…it’s not a matter of “capitalism”, it’s a matter of having a segment of the economy getting special treatment, at our expense.
You are okay with special favors going to a specific group because they supported a candidate…I think it’s wrong and not “capitalist” to do that…helping one segment of the economy at the expense of another is not what government should do…but you do.
And I noticed you “overlooked” the combined, Wall Street (who received the bailouts) and LOBBYISTS…special interest controlling the president is okay with you…not with me.
It has nothing to do with “jealousy” since you have no idea my background or what industry I work in…it has to do with not having a President making decisions harmful to the U.S. because his friends tossed him a few bucks.
I don’t want a repeat of Bechtel and the big dig…you do.

right2bright on February 29, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Look commie, I know you guys tend to be oblivious to the most simple concepts, but I’ll give it another try:

I want him to get the government out of the way and allow Wall Street to prosper even more, not help or “smack them down”

In other words, the problem is not that the government isn’t smacking Wall Street down. It’s that they have the power to do so in the first place. Which implies they also have the power to help Wall Street out of trouble – which is the reason why we have rent-seeking problems in the first place.

The problem of this country isn’t Wall Street. Or Main Street. Or unions, for that matter. It’s the insane amount of power politicians have in their hands.

That’s the difference between us: you dream with politicians with the power and the will to smack down Wall Street and the rich; I hope for a government with so little power that no interest groups would benefit from spending money trying to influence politicians.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 3:37 PM

joana on February 29, 2012 at 3:12 PM

They all stink. I’ll vote for abo, but I’d love to write in ‘Newt’s Brain.’

Romney is the most popular candidate with the conservative and republican electorate – including the average worker.

If by popular you mean a lot of people are settling for Romney, ok. I’m p.o.’d at the better choices who didn’t bother to throw their hat in the ring after they assured us it would be the end-times if Obama is re-elected. Where are they now? All comfy with their current positions.

Lightswitch on February 29, 2012 at 3:40 PM

That’s like saying Paul Krguman is an economist.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 11:57 AM

Not even remotely. Since you appear to be unable to discuss Levin’s commentary on the Constitution, I guess I’ll address your implied ad hominem attack.

I don’t agree with Levin on his presidential pick, but he has not been wrong, once, in my memory, when it comes to discussing matters involving constitutional law and interpretation. His opinionating may be over the top, but he doesn’t broadcast for entertainment purposes. He believes in the United States Constitution and makes no bones about calling out constitutional violations by politicians of both parties. To the extent a caller can take a moment or breath to be educated Levin does so.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 1:41 PM

Easy one:

The constitution supposes, what the history of all governments demonstrates, that the executive is the branch of power most interested in war, and most prone to it. It has accordingly with studied care, vested the question of war in the legislature

Of course, confronted with this view, Levin would go hysterical and start screaming something totally hyperbolic like THAT’S ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!111!! in his very ahem peculiar debating style.

Krugman is one of the best economists of our generation. His work on trade theory was ground breaking. The idea that Levin is somewhat a more accomplished or respect scholar than Krugman is beyond bizarre. My comparison was very charitable to Levin and it’s quite puzzling you’d reject it.

In any case, it’s been proven that Levin – or his followers – is often wrong about basic historic facts. Even those from four years ago.

joana on February 29, 2012 at 3:46 PM

If by popular you mean a lot of people are settling for Romney, ok. I’m p.o.’d at the better choices who didn’t bother to throw their hat in the ring after they assured us it would be the end-times if Obama is re-elected. Where are they now? All comfy with their current positions.

Lightswitch on February 29, 2012 at 3:40 PM

I’d have liked to have other candidates too, but it is what it is. Politics is the art of possible and I’ll happily play wit the hand I’m given. Those who decided to not run exercised their full prerogative – I can’t blame them for that.

By the way, anyone who wants to help us retain Snowe’s seat – and get a shot at a Senate majority -, might want to consider writing an e-mail to Bill Cohen (former Maine congressman, Senator and Secretary of Defense), encouraging him to run for that seat. The Democrats have a very strong candidate (Rep. Michaud) and Cohen is the only republican with a realistic chance of beating him (in fact, he’d even be the favorite):

wcohen(at)cohengroup(dot)net

joana on February 29, 2012 at 3:53 PM

joana on February 29, 2012 at 3:46 PM

How nice that you decided to quote James Madison. So what. Levin agrees with Madison. Apparently, you haven’t heard Levin, in his “ahem, peculiar debating style” denounce Obama with respect to Obama’s failure to have Congress okay the action in Libya. No. Instead, you come up with some fictional narrative of what you think Levin would say, in direct contravention of what he has actually said.

I’m not the person who decided to compare Krugman (an economist, and maybe an economic scholar) with Levin, a constitutional scholar. You are. It’s like comparing apples with oranges. They’re both fruit, but not the same kind. Don’t play semantic gymnastics with me.

Sorry. You get no points for this one. Not even for effort.

totherightofthem on February 29, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Politics is the art of possible and I’ll happily play wit the hand I’m given.

That’s good for you. I’m not happy about the hand we’ve been given and neither are a lot of other conservatives. As for the art of the possible:

It’s possible that Romney would govern as a conservative, but I doubt it

It’s possible that Santorum will get a gajillion dollar windfall so he can keep up, and miraculously come up with some previous executive experience, but I doubt it.

It’s possible that Newt will have another chance, and stay out of the stratosphere, but I doubt it.

Gotta go now.

Newt’s Brain 2012!

Lightswitch on February 29, 2012 at 4:01 PM

OHIO! Protect yourselves!!! The RINO Romney $Millions are coming to BUY your vote!?! Do NOT let the RepublicRAT infect you with the dreaded LEMMING disease, MHIT-For-Brains!?! MHIT-For-Brains ROBS you of any semblence of common sense and causes you to vote for LIBERALS!?! Protect yourselves now from the RINO Romney $Millions and MHIT-For-Brains!?!

Colatteral Damage on February 29, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Rick leads nothing. Nice try.

Rusty Allen on February 29, 2012 at 4:16 PM

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