Texas A&M students petition for affirmative action for athletic teams

posted at 2:30 pm on February 23, 2012 by Tina Korbe

This video could have used a few more voices — and the audio is a little patchy in spots — but it makes the point effectively: Some of the same people who support affirmative action when it is applied to the university admissions process don’t support it when it is applied to the athletics recruiting process.

Presumably, supporters of affirmative action for academics but not athletics would say something like, “Everybody has a right to an education whereas everybody doesn’t have a right to play college sports.” Why — and why not?

On a related note, the admissions process at most schools unfairly favors athletes. If a kid is going to be an asset to the football team or the golf team or the lacrosse team, for example, the school doesn’t really care if his SAT score is a little low or his G.P.A. is a disgrace. Athletic ability trumps academic qualifications (or disqualifications) in many instances. How is that fair to the student who does meet the academic criteria for admission to a school but who is passed over for an athlete who doesn’t?

As I see it, there are two ways to deal with the issue of unfair admissions processes. One would be to rigorously root out all non-academic considerations for admissions. That includes personality, musical talent, athletic talent, legacy status, parents’ ability to donate to the school, etc., etc., etc.

The other would be to acknowledge that the admissions process will always be subjective — and to stop unduly elevating the importance of the B.A. to lifelong success.


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The goal of a university is to create a diverse and heterogeneous environment- that’s not the case with collegiate athletic programs. These kids ain’t so bright

brayam on February 23, 2012 at 2:57 PM

Funny. I thought the goal of a university was to educate and prepare kids for their fields of endeavor.

Bitter Clinger on February 23, 2012 at 3:01 PM

Brayam is so lost. What a nutter.

CW on February 23, 2012 at 5:59 PM

Actually, the US military strongly supports collegiate affirmative action. Do a Google to read about the rationale.

Great, so top universities should have a 50% Asian population consisting of overachievers who scored perfect grades in high school and play the piano- yet have very limited interpersonal skills or leadership qualities that promise a bright future beyond academics. And you also suggest that kids are more prepared for the challenges of the world by studying among peers with the same background. I disagree.

bayam on February 23, 2012 at 3:22 PM

yep, the commies poison is throughout our system, the military is being overrun by scum that gets them ali hassan

oooh, we have muzzos in the military and we will do everything to protect them

bayams lib/commie scum have a lot of blood on their hands

Sonosam on February 23, 2012 at 6:08 PM

One would be to rigorously root out all non-academic considerations for admissions. That includes personality, musical talent, athletic talent, legacy status, parents’ ability to donate to the school, etc., etc., etc.

Tina, I’m curious why you included musical talent in that list. Musical talent is an academic consideration; high school students get grades for music classes, and most universities have a music department with numerous majors involving musical performance. (I never took any such classes, but still….)

acasilaco on February 23, 2012 at 6:10 PM

Title IX kinda IS affirmative action for athletes, though I have no idea if that gets widespread student support even from those who generally support AA.

Esthier on February 23, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Brayam is so lost. What a nutter.

CW on February 23, 2012 at 5:59 PM

Great contribution. Let me refer you to this comment- notice the reference to half wits.

You may be shocked to learn that Harvard and other top universities stress the importance of student diversity. So you and fellow half wits should be aware of the criteria applied by admissions programs when selecting students in the off chance your progeny have enough intelligence to seriously apply to an elite college.

The Harvard Recruitment Program seeks to identify talented students from a wide spectrum of backgrounds

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/hrp/index.html

bayam on February 23, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Professional sports also need more diversity…heck, the NBA is a disgrace! The NBA definitely needs Affirmative Action for Asian Americans. NFL is almost as bad…

Karmi on February 23, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Fightin Texas Aggie Class of ’92 — Whoop!

davek70 on February 23, 2012 at 2:55 PM

ME TOO. WHOOP!

txag92 on February 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM

The Harvard Recruitment Program seeks to identify talented students from a wide spectrum of backgrounds

even if it means that they are taking high school courses

the dropout rate of these diversions is pretty high

how about truing the blind to be pilots?

that should sate your appetite of fairness

Sonosam on February 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM

Happens everywhere.

In 1960′s, Stanford required 3 years of a foreign language for all incoming freshmen, EXCEPT for a few football players — at least one of my fraternity brothers.

fred5678 on February 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

lol

Race matters here too, of course. For example, sub-Saharan descended men have higher testosterone levels, according to medical research (American blacks have about 15% higher serum testosterone levels than American whites), which predisposes them more toward prostate cancer, for example. Which is bad.

But it also leads to more muscle mass and self-confidence, even. These are valuable in sports, which is one big reason sub-Saharan descended Americans often excel here.

But can’t us white or our Asian brothers get a “leg up” here?

Random on February 23, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Link for anyone interested:

Serum testosterone levels in healthy young black and white men.

Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant. Adjustment by analysis of covariance for time of sampling, age, weight, alcohol use, cigarette smoking, and use of prescription drugs somewhat reduced the differences. After these adjustments were made, blacks had a 15% higher testosterone level and a 13% higher free testosterone level.

Random on February 23, 2012 at 6:42 PM

As is typical, Bayam attempts to sidestep the real issues and actual results – like hinging the entire argument on Harvard – more of the usual name-dropping without proper relevance.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/culture/racism/1635-affirmative-action-and-college-graduation-rates.html

The real point is that affirmative action (AA) entices minority students to apply to colleges where their grades and test scores are significantly below the usual (non-AA) standards. Those students drop out or flunk out at higher percentages because they are unable to compete with the rest of the student population. A highly selective college like Harvard picks minority students whose qualifications more closely match the incoming average – so their graduation rate is higher. The colleges that allow for larger differences in qualifications for AA students have shown much lower graduation rates for those minority students.

What is not talked about much is the grade inflation that occurs at various schools because they have to improve the minority graduation rate. I have known minorities who were given passing grades in classes they technically flunked – but the school could not allow minorities to flunk out no matter how unqulaified they may have been.

dentarthurdent on February 23, 2012 at 6:51 PM

Random on February 23, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Gotta be really careful with that kind of “evidence” Random.

People start to ask cultural questions and perform research for other measurements that do not show favorably for people of that particular heritage, then suddenly the crap hits the fan.

scotash on February 23, 2012 at 6:55 PM

I have known minorities who were given passing grades in classes they technically flunked – but the school could not allow minorities to flunk out no matter how unqulaified [sic] they may have been.

Brain size varies across races and intelligence is proportional to brain size.

Random on February 23, 2012 at 7:07 PM

brayam on February 23, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Yeh just more pablum. You just spewed more of the same. You really are not nearly as smart as you think you are. You’re bought.

CW on February 23, 2012 at 7:39 PM

ESPN sportscaster Stephen Bardo stated that the University of Illinois should hire the most qualified African American basketball coach it could find.

1. Why was Bardo not fired for his racist comments?

2. Does Bardo beleive aa should apply to sports teams as well?

Strike Twice on February 23, 2012 at 7:39 PM

The Harvard Recruitment Program seeks to identify talented students from a wide spectrum of backgrounds

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/hrp/index.html

bayam on February 23, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Also, Harvard cowers to the the racist and PC crowd. Does that means I should be buying what they are selling? You had a major logic fail tard.

CW on February 23, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Great, so top universities should have a 50% Asian population consisting of overachievers who scored perfect grades in high school and play the piano- yet have very limited interpersonal skills or leadership qualities that promise a bright future beyond academics. And you also suggest that kids are more prepared for the challenges of the world by studying among peers with the same background. I disagree.

bayam on February 23, 2012 at 3:22 PM

You base that on what? Sounds like you are being prejudiced. We both know you are. Funny most of the Asians I know are not like that. So seriously gfy. You’re a liar and a racist.

CW on February 23, 2012 at 7:44 PM

It dawned on me . Someone sure is threatened by Asians. Hmmmmm.

CW on February 23, 2012 at 7:51 PM

Yes, “have very limited interpersonal skills” is pushing it.

I mean, Far East Asians live in densely populated, tight-knit communities. They have lower crime rates than most populations (possibly related to them having somewhat lower serum testosterone levels and slightly larger brains, specifically cerebellums, which — suitably stimulated by the R.A.S. system — inhibit emotions created by the Limbic system).

The IQ testing data shows Far East Asian people have very slightly below average or maybe just average verbal skills, and better than average math skills. For example.

But that isn’t the same thing as not having interpersonal skills, not at all.

Random on February 23, 2012 at 8:50 PM

I mean, Hong Kong wouldn’t exactly work if that were true!

Random on February 23, 2012 at 8:52 PM

The guy’s expression at 2:17 is hilarious!!

updog on February 23, 2012 at 9:32 PM

Great, so top universities should have a 50% Asian population consisting of overachievers who scored perfect grades in high school and play the piano- yet have very limited interpersonal skills or leadership qualities that promise a bright future beyond academics. And you also suggest that kids are more prepared for the challenges of the world by studying among peers with the same background. I disagree.
bayam on February 23, 2012 at 3:22 PM

So instead of the best and brightest taking advantage of upper echelon educations you would a bunch of commie scum choose who gets in depending on how they feel about the aggrieved party

Yeah, aggrieved, because you know that’s the foundation

You really are a grade A moron

Sonosam on February 23, 2012 at 9:39 PM

Thing is, the bar for undergraduates, even at decent schools, is pretty low. I can tell you from experience that the average level of education is mindblowing. I’m in a 4000 level class right now getting an “international perspectives” requirement (don’t get me started) and the professor felt the need to put the definition of peasant at the bottom of a worksheet. It’s disturbing.

Texas A&M has one of the best statistics grad programs in the world.

WeekendAtBernankes on February 23, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Um, affirmative action in the classroom that is graded on a curve is wonderful, for the real students. They are guaranteed they won’t be at the bottom of the curve.

{^_-} Color me very cynical.

herself on February 24, 2012 at 5:32 AM

I know how to end all of this.
Get the government out of education.
No federal $$ from anywhere to any institution.
Now if the state wants to fund institutions like this, then that is up to their legislators via the people.
Otherwise, nothing.
Then lets see how that nonsense sorts itself out.
If a college gets to %50 ‘Asians’, then so be it.
They are the most numerous large genetic group in the human race.
BTW-Affirmative Action has been helping to limit future Doctors for a while now. I believe it’s NDSU-they have so many position available to compete for in medical school & I think one position is open for a Native American. And from what I’ve heard, it’s hardly ever filled, so they never fill it & just send one less person.
How stupid is that?
Look at what $$ has done to Dickinson State University in ND.
I did my student teaching stuff here.
Took a few science classes & they sucked bad at that (thank God my scientific education was from UWYO at Laramie).
They have been catering to ‘diversity’ so much so they have been losing native students.
And since Dickinson’s an oil town, no one’s got anywhere to live to go there. So they pack them into the dorms 3-4 per room.
This is what greed & stupidity does to a college.

Badger40 on February 24, 2012 at 7:45 AM

Great, so top universities should have a 50% Asian population consisting of overachievers who scored perfect grades in high school and play the piano- yet have very limited interpersonal skills or leadership qualities that promise a bright future beyond academics.

Allow me to fix that quote for you to apply it to athletics.

Great, so top universities athletic teams should have a 50% black population consisting of overachievers who scored perfect touchdowns in high school and play running back – yet have very limited interpersonal skills or leadership qualities that promise a bright future beyond athletics.

There you go, all better.

NeverLiberal on February 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM

Don’t people understand that students and graduates need the entertainment in order to round out their education? So much Political Correctness, so little intelligence.

dahni on February 24, 2012 at 1:22 PM

There are a lot of issues here. The first one, is that a school does not have to belong to the division of sports that they belong to. You can go to a school where sports are Division III, or just play on the recreational teams, and academics come first, and there are no athletic scholarships.

Another issue is, some colleges and universities are public, and others are private. The difference in autonomy may be huge. Or not. One is, whether they like it or not, public colleges are accountable to taxpayers, and residents of the state. The other has a board of trustees. State residents and parents can make more demands on their public universities than they do. If you want merit programs, get noisy. If you want lesser able kids to have to start out in community college, tell your representatives.

A private organization can market themselves to whomever, however they like, within the law, of course. That some of the private schools let the American Association of Colleges and Universities dictate their social policies, but those people sometimes hold the accreditation power. However, Boards of Trustees can make statements evaluating how much the college intends to emphasize some of the goofy ideas generated by the kind of sociologists that influence the schools own mission statement.

Parents should speak up, they can also vote with their dollars when looking for colleges, and you can also vote with your dollars where you can endow merit programs, you may restrict any giving that you want to, to a university, if your lawyer puts it into writing with instructions. You can make a merit scholarship that reads: for sophomore student who has an A in biology for two semesters, and has not received any other scholarship aid. They will sniff, but they won’t refuse your money.

I would suggest that some of the schools look seriously at what their popular sports programs do to education. I am not sure that a state university is obligated to host the big football teams. Uh oh. The funny thing, is that you hear a lot of people dissing a college education today, but they sit down and watch that teams football games, root for their favorites. If you have kids that get in to a university that CAN’T get in otherwise, and you have lowered standards, and then you have to have other stupid kids in class so they don’t feel socially alone or like they are the stupidest ones on campus, the lack of merit, lowering of standards and the deterioration of the value of a college education is your fault. The football/basketball is the tail that wags the dog. You can fix lower standards in an instant. Why are we pretending these people are college athletes?

Fleuries on February 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Great, so top universities should have a 50% Asian population consisting of overachievers who scored perfect grades in high school and play the piano- yet have very limited interpersonal skills or leadership qualities that promise a bright future beyond academics. And you also suggest that kids are more prepared for the challenges of the world by studying among peers with the same background. I disagree.
bayam on February 23, 2012 at 3:22 PM

Right, who wants to reward success? I mean having the best and brightest engineers and doctors is lunacy… I always ask for an affirmative action hire doctor to perform my surgery.

Sure I’ve had the wrong surgery done once, and two medical implements still lodged in my abdomen; but having a good doctor is worse than having a “diversity” doctor.

We must educate the stupid for the good jobs, and punish the smart if they’re not the correct color.

Only by punishing some people for being the wrong color can we avoid racism… which punishes people for being the wrong color.

I have a dream that someday we will judge a person solely based on the color of his skin without any concern for the content of his character… right bayam?

gekkobear on February 24, 2012 at 3:05 PM

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