What I’d love to see at tonight’s debate: Ashes

posted at 2:45 pm on February 22, 2012 by Tina Korbe

It is Ash Wednesday, after all, and, if Joe Biden is willing to sport soot in public, then surely Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum will be, too.

Why do I want to see smudged crosses on their foreheads? It’s not because I want more folks to accuse Santorum of running to be “theologian in chief” or to question the sincerity of Newt Gingrich’s conversion, as thoughtful as those accusations and questions generally are (not). It’s also not so I have to field questions from areligious friends who think Christian (and specifically Catholic) customs like this one are odd, fun as that is (not). Nope — it’s because the ashes Catholics and some Protestants receive on their foreheads on Ash Wednesday are a symbol of something it’s always good to remember: “We are dust and to dust we shall return.” That puts everything in perspective, doesn’t it?

‘Course, Christians agree with Henry W. Longfellow when he wrote, “‘Dust thou art to dust returnest’ was not spoken of the soul.” That invests everything with meaning — but it also subordinates temporal matters (like politics!) to eternal ones.

But even non-Christians can benefit from remembering the one inevitability of life. “It is the first part of intelligence to recognize our precarious estate in life and the first part of courage to be not at all abashed before the fact,” as Robert Louis Stevenson put it. Time is running out on all of us: Why not be bold in the solutions we pursue to whatever problems we face?

If Gingrich and Santorum are ashless, though, I won’t question their dedication to their faith: Contrary to popular perception, today is not a holy day of obligation in the Catholic Church.

Update I: Ed said a contact at the Santorum campaign says he has no idea whether Santorum will wear ashes this evening and Guy Benson says Newt Gingrich has confirmed that he won’t be attending Mass today and, so, won’t be wearing ashes tonight.

Update II: According to Rick Klein via Guy Benson, Santorum is campaigning in Arizona with ashes on his head, so it’s probable he’ll still have ‘em this evening.


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right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:30 PM

No, I’m not “born again” every year which is what Lent was described as meaning. In fact, I don’t celebrate my birthday at all cause I don’t need to be reminded.

keep the change on February 22, 2012 at 4:36 PM

I’m seriously asking, is all this accurate? Because that’s not looking too good. Then my second question, is there one single person running that doesn’t have a list like this??

americanmama on February 22, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Yeah, Mitt really blew it with those votes…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM

but also a symbol to others of their own mortality and their own need for repentance.

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 4:34 PM

Oh. They should do it year round.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

So, wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes.

VekTor on February 22, 2012 at 4:38 PM

The Mormon’s learned real quick when they stepped on the Jews toes by baptizing relatives of Jews that had died…they suddenly had a “prophecy” that forbade them to do that…what a coincidence, just when the Jews were going to really straighten them out.

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Kind of like that “prophecy” they conveniently had in 1978 allowing the acceptance of blacks into the priesthood, just as the Mormon Church was mounting a massive effort at expansion in Brazil?

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 4:38 PM

*rolling my eyes*

Dante on February 22, 2012 at 4:39 PM

Then wear the ash all the time. Just like the Jews do with their hats. And your comments about Mormons are nonsensical. Going door-to-door is how they proselytize.
csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Uhhhh, yeah, doing it all the time is less intrusive than once a year…that makes sense. Many Jews walk to service one a week, I guess that’s just plain wrong, they actually walk in public…the tithing in “public” is that they have to report their tithing to become Temple Mormon’s, and you know that.
I don’t see why Mormon’s and you are such anti-Semites for showing their faith…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Kind of like that “prophecy” they conveniently had in 1978 allowing the acceptance of blacks into the priesthood, just as the Mormon Church was mounting a massive effort at expansion in Brazil?

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 4:38 PM

Just a coincidence…like outlawing polygamy…just a coincidence…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:43 PM

I assume after a day of campaigning a candidate would take a break and a knap and a shower and a change of clothes before debate.
I doubt they will still have ashes

gerrym51 on February 22, 2012 at 4:43 PM

always boils down to the basic question, Either God is God, or man is god.

kirkill on February 22, 2012 at 4:44 PM

I’m seriously asking, is all this accurate? Because that’s not looking too good. Then my second question, is there one single person running that doesn’t have a list like this??

americanmama on February 22, 2012 at 4:32 PM

He is one of the best fiscal conservatives we have. Ron Paul has a better record, but no one else does including Paul Ryan.

Santorum was against TARP , the stimulus , the auto bailout, and the Fannie-Freddie bailout.

* Voted NO on the Clinton tax hike in 1993
* Voted YES on the capital gains tax cut in 1997
* Voted NO on a cigarette tax hike in 1998
* Voted YES on repeal of the Alternative Minimum Tax in 1999
* Voted YES on the 2001 Bush tax cuts
* Voted YES to repeal the Death Tax in 2002
* Voted YES to the 2003 Bush tax cuts
* Voted YES to extend the Bush tax cuts in 2006

The National Taxpayers Union (NTU) has been rating members of Congress for 20 years. NTU is an independent, non-partisan organization that — per its mission statement — “mobilizes elected officials and the general public on behalf of tax relief and reform, lower and less wasteful spending, individual liberty, and free enterprise.” Steve Forbes serves on its board of directors.

For each session of Congress, NTU scores each member on an A-to-F scale. NTU weights members’ votes based on those votes’ perceived effect on both the immediate and future size of the federal budget. Those who get A’s are among “the strongest supporters of responsible tax and spending policies”; they receive NTU’s “Taxpayers’ Friend Award.” B’s are “good” scores, C’s are “minimally acceptable” scores, D’s are “poor” scores, and F’s earn their recipients membership in the “Big Spender” category. There is no grade inflation whatsoever, as we shall see.

NTU’s scoring paints a radically different picture of Santorum’s 12-year tenure in the Senate (1995 through 2006) than one would glean from the rhetoric of the Romney campaign. Fifty senators served throughout Santorum’s two terms: 25 Republicans, 24 Democrats, and 1 Republican/Independent. On a 4-point scale (awarding 4 for an A, 3.3 for a B+, 3 for a B, 2.7 for a B-, etc.), those 50 senators’ collective grade point average (GPA) across the 12 years was 1.69 — which amounts to a C-. Meanwhile, Santorum’s GPA was 3.66 — or an A-. Santorum’s GPA placed him in the top 10 percent of senators, as he ranked 5th out of 50.

Across the 12 years in question, only 6 of the 50 senators got A’s in more than half the years. Santorum was one of them. He was also one of only 7 senators who never got less than a B. (Jim Talent served only during Santorum’s final four years, but he always got less than a B, earning a B- every year and a GPA of 2.7.) Moreover, while much of the Republican party lost its fiscal footing after George W. Bush took office — although it would be erroneous to say that the Republicans were nearly as profligate as the Democrats — Santorum was the only senator who got A’s in every year of Bush’s first term. None of the other 49 senators could match Santorum’s 4.0 GPA over that span.

sharrukin on February 22, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Americanmoma,

Yes, it is accurate, unless ppl want to claim the Senate website is wrong.

When a candiate votes pro Union, votes against entitlement reform, votes to increase entitlements, votes against tax cuts, they are not a fiscal conservative imo.

And when its time to pull the lever, that’s all that matters, my opinion, not the ratings of some agency.

The main issues of this country that concern me are fiscal in nature, not social, so Santorum needs to prove to me he is a conservative through his stance on fiscal issues.

People can change, they can evolve in their views. So I would like to see how Santorum addresses his past voting record.

cmsciulli on February 22, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Oh. They should do it year round.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM

Yom Kippur is considered to be the most important day of the Jewish year and fasting as a means of repentance is expected of every Jewish man or woman above the age of bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah respectively

The four other public but minor fast days are:

The Fast of Gedaliah on the day after Rosh Hashana
The Fast of the 10th of Tevet
The Fast of the 17th of Tammuz
The Fast of Esther, which takes place immediately before Purim

How does it feel being an anti-Semite?

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:46 PM

I just read the sub-title as being ignorant of non-Christian views, I didn’t find it offensive in any way.

cmsciulli on February 22, 2012 at 4:03 PM

I’m more relieved than offended to know that Tina doesn’t mean me when she writes “we.” Now I can read her stuff with the understanding she sees me as “other.” I should have been more clear.

When Michelle Malkin wrote about things using her social conservative values as a metric, she somehow wrote in a way that lacked Ms. Korbe’s us-versus-them approach; she’d be incensed, as would I, if the government punished people for expressing their religious beliefs and living according to them, but she didn’t say once, that I recall, “you aren’t a part of us if you don’t believe in Christ like I do.” Mr. Morrissey, too, while obviously conservative socially doesn’t draw such exclusionary lines as us, or “we”(those with ashes on their heads on ash wednesday), and them (those without) even though he likely participated in that sacramental today. Ms. Korbe, however, makes no such allowance.

As an aside, do you consider ignorance to be a virtue to or a detractor from a news digest commentary?

Jens on February 22, 2012 at 4:47 PM

So easy, isn’t? Every year you get “born again”. Who wouldn’t go for that.

keep the change on February 22, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Wait, it’s even better than that. We Catholics believe that we are “born again” in Christ every time we participate in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which you probably have heard of as confession. Going to confession, we are absolved of our sins and set free from them, just as we were on the day we were baptised and born in Christ for the first time.

Trafalgar on February 22, 2012 at 4:48 PM

Oh. They should do it year round.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM

Do you celebrate your birthday every day of the year? Your anniversary? The day you decided to devote your life to Mitt? Wait, that one you do celebrate everyday…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:50 PM

Ash Wednesday… in the face of Matthew 6:17″ But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and WASH the FACE.”

So tell me again why do RC’s contradict God’s word?

Shain1611 on February 22, 2012 at 4:52 PM

Joe Biden is no Catholic. His support for abortion rights is heresy and means he is excommunicated latae sententiae.

WarEagle01 on February 22, 2012 at 4:53 PM

None of the other 49 senators could match Santorum’s 4.0 GPA over that span.

sharrukin on February 22, 2012 at 4:45 PM

.
Obviously not criteria for re-election to stay in the Senate- or those other senators must really suck as well.

FlaMurph on February 22, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Hi Jens,

Very good points. I agree that perhaps there could have been a better way for her to make her arguements. . . Probably omitting the sub headline would have been enough to avoid the us vs we tone.

cmsciulli on February 22, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Ash Wednesday… in the face of Matthew 6:17″ But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and WASH the FACE.”

So tell me again why do RC’s contradict God’s word?

Shain1611 on February 22, 2012 at 4:52 PM

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 4:53 PM

less intrusive than once a year

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:42 PM

You said it was an outward sign of faith. Now you want to frame it as intrusive.

Moving the goalposts is your favorite tactic when you’re cornered.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:54 PM

We Catholics believe that we are “born again” in Christ every time we participate in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which you probably have heard of as confession.

I know, such convenience. A simple but clever design. Catholicism understands human nature very well.

keep the change on February 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Obviously not criteria for re-election to stay in the Senate- or those other senators must really suck as well.

FlaMurph on February 22, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Hard to keep a conservative in the Senate in one of the most liberal states…but he never forsaked his conservative policies…12 years is a nice run.

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Ashes on the head, the new flag lapel pin.

wrath187 on February 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM

How does it feel being an anti-Semite?

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:46 PM

I couldn’t say. But you could certainly tell us all how it feels to be the king of the straw man argument since you use it all the time.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Obviously not criteria for re-election to stay in the Senate-

Santorum still made those votes and if as you are suggesting voting for fiscal restraint cost him his re-election…how is that a criticism?

or those other senators must really suck as well.

FlaMurph on February 22, 2012 at 4:53 PM

I would say that is obviously true.

sharrukin on February 22, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Joe Biden is no Catholic. His support for abortion rights is heresy and means he is excommunicated latae sententiae.

As is every so-called Catholic who supports the death penalty.

Drew Lowell on February 22, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Do you celebrate your birthday every day of the year? Your anniversary? The day you decided to devote your life to Mitt? Wait, that one you do celebrate everyday…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:50 PM

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God Mittens.”

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Wait, it’s even better than that. We Catholics believe that we are “born again” in Christ every time we participate in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which you probably have heard of as confession. Going to confession, we are absolved of our sins and set free from them, just as we were on the day we were baptised and born in Christ for the first time.

Trafalgar on February 22, 2012 at 4:48 PM

Which is a direct contradiction to what God’s word teaches. JOhn 3:3-7 So if your are reborn time and time and why aren’t you re-baptized time and time again? It is not the water that takes away your sins its the Blood. So if water does the trick than tell us why did our Lord die? 1 Cor. 15:14-17

Shain1611 on February 22, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Do you celebrate your birthday every day of the year?

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:50 PM

More straw man 8ull$hit! lol

I don’t wear my birthday cake on my head in public you dolt! And I don’t try to remind every person on earth that they have a birthday also.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:58 PM

I couldn’t say. But you could certainly tell us all how it feels to be the king of the straw man argument since you use it all the time.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Like the time you said I was creating a list of “Santorum-approved” Christians, merely by pointing out to you the actual definition of the term “Mainline Protestantism?”

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Which is a direct contradiction to what God’s word teaches. JOhn 3:3-7 So if your are reborn time and time and why aren’t you re-baptized time and time again? It is not the water that takes away your sins its the Blood. So if water does the trick than tell us why did our Lord die? 1 Cor. 15:14-17

Shain1611 on February 22, 2012 at 4:58 PM

So all I need to do to be saved is get baptized and be born again? Just once? And then I’m good forever, no matter what I do after my rebirth? Sweet!

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

These boards are something else. . . We have groups of Christians fighting each other over their respective dogmas today, on top of all the usual Romney, Santorum, Gingrich brawling.

I think some of you just like to argue.

Testing: The sky is blue.

cmsciulli on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

You said it was an outward sign of faith. Now you want to frame it as intrusive.

Moving the goalposts is your favorite tactic when you’re cornered.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:54 PM

My error, I should have put the /s tag, to show it was sarcasm, I forgot who I was penning to…”intrusive” is what you are hinting at, “in your face”, once again, my error, I assumed you had a knowledge of words and how they could be used.
Next time I will post slower and use words that are smaller (less characters, oops, less alphabetic words, not just smaller as in littler, or less in size dimension, but…oh man, it is difficult to post to you because you aren’t too bright)
Okay let’s try this… it is less offensive, no you will misinterpret that…less obvious, no you will misinterpret that…never mind, you won’t get it no matter how simple I make it…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

So when are you guys going to denounce Jews?
A little afraid of tackling that are you? Little intimidated, the Christians are a little nicer at receiving criticism, we could all take a lesson from the Jews…you pay when you ruthlessly attack and demean what we so honor…
Which is why you won’t say anything about the Jews and their clothing, their diet, their doctrines…
The Mormon’s learned real quick when they stepped on the Jews toes by baptizing relatives of Jews that had died…they suddenly had a “prophecy” that forbade them to do that…what a coincidence, just when the Jews were going to really straighten them out.

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:35 PM

You’d be the exception, since you’re probably the most thin-skinned POS around here. You complain about others disrespecting your faith, then proceed to lob bombs at another faith. You think the Mormons are/were anti-Semitic or racist, you better take a close look in the mirror.

Nobody’s “ruthlessly attacking and demeaning”, just questioning. Grow up.

peski on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Ash Wednesday… in the face of Matthew 6:17″ But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and WASH the FACE.”

So tell me again why do RC’s contradict God’s word?

Shain1611 on February 22, 2012 at 4:52 PM

The anti-Catholic element is busy today.

The ashes are not to show off. They are for us, as a reminder. We’ll be hearing the appropriate gospel of Matthew in mass don’t you worry.

Not to rub it in…well, maybe a little :P…there wouldn’t even be a bible without the Catholic Church.

JetBoy on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM

.
12 years for Richard is decent in a way. Certainly the truest of conservatives.
By Default though.

FlaMurph on February 22, 2012 at 5:01 PM

Testing: The sky is blue.

cmsciulli on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

What color blue? Blue is Mitt’s favorite color…anyone against blue is against Mitt…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 5:02 PM

Testing: The sky is blue.

cmsciulli on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

.
Not at night ! lol !

FlaMurph on February 22, 2012 at 5:03 PM

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Sanctorum pronounced all of Protestantism to be over taken by the influence of Satan. And we all noticed he didn’t criticize the influence Satan has in his church. So, yeah, he was singling out those churches who are not on his approved list.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:03 PM

You think the Mormons are/were anti-Semitic or racist, you better take a close look in the mirror.

Nobody’s “ruthlessly attacking and demeaning”, just questioning. Grow up.

peski on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

You don’t get it…I was using their arguments against the “ashes”, when the Jews have similar doctrines but they seem to be “immune” from the Mormon’s and atheists…but I didn’t expect everyone to understand…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 5:04 PM

Can you apply TV-makeup around and ash spot?

Tc0061 on February 22, 2012 at 5:05 PM

These boards are something else. . . We have groups of Christians fighting each other over their respective dogmas today, on top of all the usual Romney, Santorum, Gingrich brawling.

I think some of you just like to argue.

Testing: The sky is blue.

cmsciulli on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Yeah, it’s amazing. It’s usually the “faithful” of various sorts dumping on us nasty atheists. Very sad to see the various Catholic/Protestant/Mormon hate going around the last few days… but that’s what happens when a major Presidential candidate wears is faith on his sleeve. I’m not saying “hide it” or “downplay it”, but boy you have to get the message right on something so volatile.

It’s like we build a big pile of wood, stand on top, pour kerosene over our heads, and toss a match-book to the nearest liberal media type.

peski on February 22, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Ash Wednesday… in the face of Matthew 6:17″ But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and WASH the FACE.”

So tell me again why do RC’s contradict God’s word?

Shain1611 on February 22, 2012 at 4:52 PM

P.S. I clicked on the link in your screen name, which took me to an online forum devoted to discrediting the Catholic Church. I noticed that you are the author of 16 of the last 20 threads. Hmm…

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 5:05 PM

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Try as you like, it is still straw man argumentation and moving the goalposts.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:06 PM

The anti-Catholic element is busy today.

The ashes are not to show off. They are for us, as a reminder. We’ll be hearing the appropriate gospel of Matthew in mass don’t you worry.

Not to rub it in…well, maybe a little :P…there wouldn’t even be a bible without the Catholic Church.

JetBoy on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Not so… it was the Jews who gave us the Old Testament, and the Apostles who wrote the New Testament which was guarded by the early Christians in Anioch… read the Book of Acts, and Paul’s Epistles. 2 Tim. 3:15 All scripture comes frm the Holy Spirit not the RCC

Shain1611 on February 22, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Sanctorum pronounced all of Protestantism to be over taken by the influence of Satan. And we all noticed he didn’t criticize the influence Satan has in his church. So, yeah, he was singling out those churches who are not on his approved list.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:03 PM

“Mainline Protestantism” does not equal Protestantism writ large. And Santorum never said that the Catholic Church is not under the influence of Satan to a certain extent. I’m sure if you asked him, he would say that all churches are to one degree or another. He was merely take note of the rapid decline in membership and participation experienced by the Mainline denominations in the past 50 years.

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 5:07 PM

Senator Santorum Plays Major Role in Preventing Food Stamp Cuts
Santorum Advocates on Behalf of Food Stamp Recipients; Helps Remove Proposed Cuts in Budget

October 19, 2005 -
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: ROBERT TRAYNHAM (202) 224-0610

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), Chairman of the Senate Republican Conference and member of the Senate Agriculture Committee, successfully advocated on behalf of food stamp and nutrition programs as the Senate is currently working through the federal budget.

A year later in a promotional flyer (pdf) for his re-election campaign Santorum bragged that he “led the Senate” in protecting the Food Stamp program from the cuts proposed by the White House.
.
Wonder if Newton has seen this……..

FlaMurph on February 22, 2012 at 5:09 PM

You don’t get it…I was using their arguments against the “ashes”, when the Jews have similar doctrines but they seem to be “immune” from the Mormon’s and atheists…but I didn’t expect everyone to understand…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 5:04 PM

I understood perfectly, but you seem to think that Christians, not the filthy Mormons and atheists, have been arguing about that point and thousands of others for two thousand years. And the Jews were arguing similar points with each other for a few hundred years before that.

Take a chill pill. You, like Santorum, would win more to your side if you’d stop pointing the finger and get that pinched, furrowed-brow, look off your face. People questioning your beliefs is NOT persecution.

peski on February 22, 2012 at 5:12 PM

A nice exaltation of form over substance.

GaltBlvnAtty on February 22, 2012 at 5:12 PM

P.S. I clicked on the link in your screen name, which took me to an online forum devoted to discrediting the Catholic Church. I noticed that you are the author of 16 of the last 20 threads. Hmm…

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 5:05 PM

I was a Roman Catholic for 32 years, had one Uncle who was a Priest, and I spent 2 1/2 years in a Benedictine Monastery

Yes the board has slowed, but so have many of them on the net. Look at the time it was started and the amount of post since it was started. This may surprise you but I believe some Catholics are saved just as i believe many Baptist are not. It is not the Church you belong to it’s who you are trusting on for your salvation. For me, I’m trusting on the finished work my Lord did at the Cross and his Victory over death. No Church, no Pope, no sacaments, no baptism,,,,,no works of any kind,

Shain1611 on February 22, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Real America is so hung up on silly unwinnable social issues. Good luck with that, holy warriors! See you in 2016.

KeninCT on February 22, 2012 at 5:16 PM

I’d like to see anything but ashes. I’d like to see absolutely no discussion of religion what so ever. Too bad the Media can’t help ask the questions and Santorum can’t help but answer..

Critic2029 on February 22, 2012 at 5:17 PM

there wouldn’t even be a bible without the Catholic Church.

JetBoy on February 22, 2012 at 5:00 PM

And like all churches, there would not have been some real crimes against humanity either.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:20 PM

I haven’t read a religious-related post for a while since such became part of Tina Korbe’s beat, so reading the comments has been something of a nostalgic interlude. One thing that hasn’t changed about hotair: the rapidfire exchange of argumentum ad hominem between right2bright and csdeven. Reading such is almost as good as sitting on a sofa at night with a buttered biscuit and cup of cocoa. Comfort food.

Jens on February 22, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Take a chill pill. You, like Santorum, would win more to your side if you’d stop pointing the finger and get that pinched, furrowed-brow, look off your face. People questioning your beliefs is NOT persecution.

peski on February 22, 2012 at 5:12 PM

Open your eyes…I have stated many times, any one of the three would be fine with me…but I prefer not to let lies permeate by decision…saying Rick is a big gov lib is wrong, saying Mitt makes no errors is wrong…I want the strongest to win…kind of ruins you “analysis” doesn’t it?
And I will defend my faith against lies and mis-truths any day…you are not the one to tell people not to defend what is so valuable to them…so my advice, take a chill pill and be more accurate in your posts.

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Jens on February 22, 2012 at 5:21 PM

They both tend to give me indigestion, to be honest.

peski on February 22, 2012 at 5:22 PM

steebo77 on February 22, 2012 at 5:07 PM

“We look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.”

Ask most Protestants what he meant and they know it was an insult. One has to stretch credulity to accept your nuanced explanation.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:27 PM

Jens on February 22, 2012 at 4:47 PM

I’m still confused as to the “we” you are not a part of…the human race? Rereading TK’s post, she was very clearly using “I” in her commentary, with the exception of the byline that indicates “we” all have mortality in common. How does that exclude you? And I get it. You want to be excluded from her religious beliefs. As I’m guessing, she would yours, as well. No problem. Plenty of room under the “big tent”.

bntafraid on February 22, 2012 at 5:27 PM

the rapidfire exchange of argumentum ad hominem between right2bright and csdeven. Reading such is almost as good as sitting on a sofa at night with a buttered biscuit and cup of cocoa. Comfort food.Jens on February 22, 2012 at 5:21 PM

You can multitask and do both. I often do. Hatfields and McCoys.

a capella on February 22, 2012 at 5:28 PM

I want the strongest to win…kind of ruins you “analysis” doesn’t it?
And I will defend my faith against lies and mis-truths any day…you are not the one to tell people not to defend what is so valuable to them…so my advice, take a chill pill and be more accurate in your posts.

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 5:21 PM

I made no statements about what candidate you want to win, so I don’t have the slightest clue what “analysis” you’re referring to.

As for defending what is so valuable to you, from the perspective of a moderately disinterested observer you’re doing a pretty crappy job. More like “hypersensitive screed in a loudspeaker” than “light on a hill”.

peski on February 22, 2012 at 5:28 PM

What color blue? Blue is Mitt’s favorite color…anyone against blue is against Mitt…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 5:02 PM

That’s it folks! We have incontrovertible evidence that Romney is a RINO and should in no way receive the GOP nomination.

Now, if the MSM breaks a story tonight that Santorum’s fav animal is a Donkey it is truly time for that brokered convention :-P

Not at night ! lol !

FlaMurph on February 22, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Be gone, Libertarian!

cmsciulli on February 22, 2012 at 5:32 PM

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM

Do you celebrate your birthday every day of the year? Your anniversary? The day you decided to devote your life to Mitt? Wait, that one you do celebrate everyday…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 4:50 PM

When Mitt Smiles csd has an ogasm.
When Mitt doesn’t smile bluegill has an ogasm.

SparkPlug on February 22, 2012 at 5:33 PM

JetBoy on February 22, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Hiya!
I’ve got mine on still…as a reminder. I’ll wash ‘em off when I go to bed.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 5:34 PM

Anything Santorum does is going to make the people who hate him hate him even more. I honestly think anyone involved has already decided who they want and everything else at this point will be confirmation of what they already believe.

BakerAllie on February 22, 2012 at 2:58 PM

Hey you know what isn’t going to make me hate him even more? If he doesn’t spend the evening scolding me because I’m not a Catholic and spends a little more time explaining how Obamacare* is destroying –and indeed has aleady done a significant amount of damage to– my health care.

*Notice I said “Obamacare” and not “Satan”.

CreatedOrSaved on February 22, 2012 at 5:35 PM

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:20 PM

BIGOT TROLL ALERT

SparkPlug on February 22, 2012 at 5:36 PM

bridgetown on February 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Um, no. If their faith dictates that wearing the ash is a liturgical imposition on Ash Wednesday and is sacramental and sacred to them, I’m pretty sure they don’t care what you think.

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 5:37 PM

We are dust and to dust we shall return.

Quite right. So why waste a moment of one’s life to feather a nonexistent after-nest? To those who don’t know it, this is heaven and it’s a fool who doesn’t try to make the best and the most of it!

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:37 PM

sharrukin on February 22, 2012 at 4:45 PM

LOL at anyone who thinks Santorum is a fiscal conservative.

Dante on February 22, 2012 at 5:37 PM

SparkPlug on February 22, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Obsessing on orgasms…..you are one sick POS.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:39 PM

And like all churches, there would not have been some real crimes against humanity either.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Since we all going off topic a bit anyway…

I can’t speak for all churches, but the Catholic Church is the world’s largest charitable organization the world has ever seen. I’ll never hear that from you tho. Although, why not…I’m interested in the “crimes against humanity” perpetrated by the Catholic Church.

Hiya!
I’ve got mine on still…as a reminder. I’ll wash ‘em off when I go to bed.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 5:34 PM

lol Mine always get rubbed off…by accident, not on purpose. I’m constantly rubbing my forehead anyway so it doesn’t last long :/ This year it was just a small bit o’ ashes, but depending on the priest who applies them, I’ve gotten some major ashasge before

JetBoy on February 22, 2012 at 5:41 PM

JetBoy on February 22, 2012 at 5:41 PM

The priest went so heavy on ‘em-I’ve actually got a cross-that I got ashes in my eyes. LoL

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 5:43 PM

I can’t speak for all churches, but the Catholic Church is the world’s largest charitable organization the world has ever seen. I’ll never hear that from you tho.

JetBoy on February 22, 2012 at 5:41 PM

The Catholic church does a lot for the good of humanity. My criticism is of Sanctorum and why he continually brings his faith into the discussion of politics.

This entire Ash thing was a mystery to me until I was told that it is (partially) done outwardly to remind me that I am mortal and need to repent.

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:47 PM

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 5:47 PM

If it’s to remind the wearer, wouldn’t it better to put the ashes on something they can see? I always figured that it was some kind of Indian poker :-)

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Over 80% of people in elective office in the US are Christians.

What we need are alot more Jews!

georgealbert on February 22, 2012 at 5:50 PM

The priest went so heavy on ‘em-I’ve actually got a cross-that I got ashes in my eyes. LoL

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 5:43 PM

haha…Yeah, I’ve had that before. You have to bend down and smack the back of your head to let some fall off :D

I’ve been passing THIS video around since I ran into it totally by accident the other night…I was looking for some Christian songs and just stumbled on this 12 year old kid in Brazil who belts out Michael W Smith’s “Agnus Dei” and I was totally blown away…that kid pack some vocal chords that’s for sure.

JetBoy on February 22, 2012 at 5:50 PM

What we need are alot more Jews!

georgealbert on February 22, 2012 at 5:50 PM

I go both ways.
What?

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 5:51 PM

I’m certainly not a Republican first, if that answers your question.

I would think then that you could be actively “campaign” against Rick Santorum without attacking his faith all the time. I admire faithful people. Most Christians are at least not insulted by it.

Politics is not a proper venue for the expression of religion. I have a responsibility toward how I live, not how others live. If people live a moral life only through force of law, it is not legitmate, anyway. God allows us free will for a reason, and so should government.

I guess any time is okay for attacking a fellow Christian because of their faith though.

We don’t have a right to be unoffended by others’ personal moral decisions.

This is really the only comment I agree with. Yet, I do have a right to keep them from imposing their morality on me. I have a responsibility to protect the innocent too.

DRayRaven on February 22, 2012 at 3:39 PM

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 5:52 PM

If it’s to remind the wearer, wouldn’t it better to put the ashes on something they can see? I always figured that it was some kind of Indian poker :-)

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Is this civility? Ridiculing someone’s faith?

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 5:53 PM

Is this civility? Ridiculing someone’s faith?

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 5:53 PM

Of course not.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 5:57 PM

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 5:52 PM

That’s a non-starter, HD. Did people attack Newt for his faith? Cain or the others aside from Bachmann? Nope. Not even the frosty fish-woman. Not that I recall. People are repulsed by Sanctorum because he brings his piety in to the public arena. He tells us that his faith is his guide to forming public policy. From abortion to marriage amendments to his Satanic Verses on You Tube. That’s a line that no one, believer or atheist, should accept.

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:58 PM

Of course not.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 5:57 PM

I never learn.

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 5:59 PM

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 5:53 PM

Oh garsh, We’re so so sensitive. Not even a harmless jest like that can escape righteous indignation.

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:59 PM

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:58

All the candidates have been critiqued on the faith, wearing their faith on their sleeve, whatever. Fair game for folks who think that’s important. You’re ridiculing the faith itself and it’s practices.

I always figured that it was some kind of Indian poker :-)

You’ll never change. You have an inner disgust of Christians it seems and the least expression of it seems to set you off.

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:03 PM

I always figured that it was some kind of Indian poker :-)

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:49 PM

lol

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 6:04 PM

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:59 PM

Jews tend to have thicker skin when it come to that…since it’s ALWAYS coming to that.
Despite the ashes on my forehead-I grinned..

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 6:04 PM

Santorum and Gingrich should leak that they’ll wear ashes, just to see if Romney shows up wearing them!

tom on February 22, 2012 at 6:05 PM

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:03 PM

Hawk-MJ was born Jewish.
It’s a Jewish sense of humor.
nothing is so sacred that it can’t be poked fun at.
My Jewish parents-my dad especially-used to tell…Holocaust jokes.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 6:07 PM

All the candidates have been critiqued on the faith, wearing their faith on their sleeve, whatever

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:03 PM

Saying so does not make it true. I don’t recall Cain, who was a minister, IIRC being criticized for it, because he didn’t make a political issue of it. Romney has been, but that’s come from the religious righteous who go after him for being the “wrong” kind of Christian.

Oh please. Do they amputate one’s funny bone on their confirmation day? OK, I withdraw that comment and apologize to any Indians who may have been offended.

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Oh garsh, We’re so so sensitive. Not even a harmless jest like that can escape righteous indignation.

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 5:59 PM

I can’t count how many times on a thread about gay lifestyle issues the most innocent observations seem to justify any and all verbal assaults on social conservatives commenting on the thread.

I guess I’m confused here. Is it no holds barred or are we trying to maintain some civility? Or am I just stupid and cowed into a behavior no one else expects of themselves.

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Holocaust jokes.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 6:07 PM

Colonel Klink was played by Werner Klemperer after all :-) And the producers, starring the Jewish Gene Wilder was directed by none other than Mel Brooks (who rumor has is it also a Jew)!

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 6:11 PM

OK, I withdraw that comment and apologize to any Indians who may have been offended.

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Yeah, because you didn’t offend Catholics, you offended Native Americans. You know what, forget it. You’re not worth the trouble. And you’re certainly not deserving of any respect in return.

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:11 PM

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Here’s a thought. Learn to laugh and then you’ll have a shot at distinguishing between humor and malice.

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 6:12 PM

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Hawk-please?
MJ has a Jewish sense of humor.
I’ve still got it too…to a point.
‘K.
Thanks!
*grin*

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 6:12 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 6:07 PM

That makes it okay?

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:12 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 6:12 PM

No.

hawkdriver on February 22, 2012 at 6:13 PM

My Jewish parents-my dad especially-used to tell…Holocaust jokes.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 6:07 PM

If done in the right spirit, I agree. Sometimes I wish I had my own faith that I could make jokes about. Unfortunately I am limited to Einstein and Chuck Norris jokes. ;-)

csdeven on February 22, 2012 at 6:14 PM

I’m not going to debate this. I don’t believe in form over substance. I don’t believe in symbolism, or works, over faith, and faith only, in Jesus Christ. I don’t believe in images, or in crosses, or in Priests, or in men.

I believe in Jesus Christ, and my faith is in Jesus Christ … period. My faith does not require the sporting of ashes, or the wearing of crosses, or the crossing of my chest, or in the bowing down to images … or to men.

I’ve said all that I’m going to.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 22, 2012 at 3:12 PM

That’s good, because what you’re saying proves that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. You certainly don’t understand the Roman Catholic faith, that’s for sure.

Shump on February 22, 2012 at 3:20 PM

No, it just means that he thinks it’s a ritual with no particular value. I see no real value in it myself. But I promise I won’t get offended by those who do it.

tom on February 22, 2012 at 6:15 PM

MJBrutus on February 22, 2012 at 6:11 PM

I’m not disagreeing.
I stay away from religion-excluding Jewish jokes LoL and disability- but pretty much everything else is fair game for me.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 22, 2012 at 6:15 PM

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