Q-poll: Santorum up 9 over Romney

posted at 9:50 am on February 22, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Rick Santorum’s momentum on a national level continues in the new Quinnipiac poll conducted among 1124 Republican primary voters.  The news is not so good among the larger sample of 2,605 registered voters, where Mitt Romney scores within the margin of error against Barack Obama, but Santorum trails by 10:

Former Pennsylvania U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum leads the Republican presidential field with 35 percent, followed by former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney with 26 percent among Republicans and independent voters leaning Republican nationwide, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. In November matchups, President Barack Obama edges Santorum, while the race with Romney is too close to call,

Santorum leads Romney head-to-head 50 – 37 percent.

Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul score in double digits, but still fall far off the pace at 14% and 11%, respectively. Santorum’s strength comes from Tea Party supporters and evangelical Christians, but the surprising demo for Santorum is women. He beats Romney 34/28 among women, just as Gallup found yesterday.  If Santorum’s attention to traditional conservative values and comments on the HHS contraception mandate damage him among women, it’s certainly not true among those women voting in the Republican primaries, at least according to this poll.

In the general election?  There’s actually not that much difference between Santorum and Romney:

Although this is Quinnipiac University’s first national poll this year, all of the numerous surveys of key states this year, including Florida, Ohio and Virginia, show Romney doing better against Obama than Santorum.

In this national poll, the president benefits from his 46 – 41 percent lead over Romney and 49 – 39 percent margin over Santorum among independent voters.

Obama wins women head-to-head against Romney in this poll by eight points, 49/41. He also wins independents 46/41, but loses Catholics by a huge margin of 35/56 — a big contrast to his 54/45 win in that demo against John McCain in 2008. However, Santorum loses women only by one point more, 50/41, but does worse among independents, losing by twice as much at 49/39. The Catholic vote stays the same, but Santorum does better with seniors (52/40) against Obama than does Romney (48/41).

The sample seems to be a little off, however, although not exactly tilted. The weighted D/R/I is 30/28/33, but another 8% are “other.” In other polls, those would go into the independent column, which would make this 30/28/41, a little too tilted toward the independents.  (The 2010 midterms produced a 35/35/30 split, for comparison.)  The sample doesn’t account for the R/I mix in the Republican primary polling, so it’s impossible to know whether Republicans were oversampled for that purpose (which would tend to help Santorum) or undersampled (which would tend to help Romney).


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rhombus on February 22, 2012 at 11:03 AM

That’s great. If you want to give the government more money, more power to you. But, Romneycare is not a Conservative plan, and burdening the citizens to pay for it, is not Conservative, either.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Is Ed stuck in the spin cycle? –

Buy Danish on February 22, 2012 at 11:00 AM

To be entirely honest, I think ED is trying his best to be impartial so as to avoid anyone claiming that he is supporting Santorum only because Santorum is Catholic. In attempting to prove his impartiality Ed end’s up over compensating a bit and looks Anti-Santorum.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Obama has Bush to blame for everything. Santorum has SATAN.

I understand that Santorum’s first act as President would be to send the Seals out to look for SATAN, who he thinks is our biggest enemy.

MadJayhawk on February 22, 2012 at 10:56 AM

But think of the press conference. Taking out Satan is a sure-fire path to re-election!

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:03 AM

You guys have a right to be atheists but you should know that every time you write this bigoted crap,it just helps Santorum.

fight like a girl on February 22, 2012 at 11:07 AM

If Romney or his supporters were attacking Santorum because of his religious beliefs, I would agree. But that just flat-out isn’t true. Santorum is being held to task for his own statements about religion, Satan, and the moral decrepitude of Americans. You can agree with him, but that doesn’t make his statements any less divisive and inappropriate.

Priscilla on February 22, 2012 at 11:01 AM

To his credit, Romney is – thankfully – staying above the fray. It’s his supporters that need to back off of religious attacks.

Santorum’s “Satan” comment is a good example of what I’m taliking about. Since that comment was part of a 2008 (prior to the current campaign) speech to a religious group at a Catholic college, it’s clear that he wasn’t making a public policy statement; it was a religious speech. Romney supporters are doing themselves a dis-service by dwelling on it.

Deafdog on February 22, 2012 at 11:12 AM

The news is not so good among the larger sample of 2,605 registered voters, where Mitt Romney scores within the margin of error against Barack Obama, but Santorum trails by 10:

This is incorrect. Both Romney and Santorum are within the MOE against Obama. The difference of 10% is among independent voters.

Rocks on February 22, 2012 at 11:12 AM

A), you’re full of Shiite, and B) you’re full of lying Shiite… Rick Santorum isn’t trying to force a Catholic-centered judeo-christian based government on anyone. His voting record in the senate makes that indisputably clear.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Agree. He’s forcing a big government that spends most of your money and buries future generations in debt – and, as the Greeks are finding out, third world poverty. His voting record in the senate makes that indisputably clear. He’s also forcing unions control over the economy and taxpayers money – his voting record in the senate makes that indisputably clear. And he’ll send some of your money to his donors. And to Planet Parenthood. His voting record in the senate makes that indisputably clear too.

joana on February 22, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Santorum has passion and that connects with people. Conservative.

Newt has the knowledge, but lacks that passion. Even tho I support Newt. Conservative.

Romney lacks what Santorum & Newt have. He is not a Conservative.

bluefox on February 22, 2012 at 11:13 AM

But if the GOP convention picks a new candidate, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is the top choice of Republicans, with 32 percent, followed by former governors Sarah Palin of Alaska and Jeb Bush of Florida with 20 percent each and Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels with 15 percent.

It’s amazing how conservatives failed to convince Christie to run. I do understand that a man like him doesn’t want to deal with the crazy fringe of the party though.

joana on February 22, 2012 at 11:14 AM

I’m a Protestant woman who has used birth control, and though my preferred candidate is Gingrich, I would gladly vote for Santorum over Romney.

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Same here.

bluefox on February 22, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Likewise, although Santorum has been my choice since the beginning.

Constance on February 22, 2012 at 11:14 AM

General election match-ups show:

President Obama with 46 percent tor Romney’s 44 percent;
Obama inching past Santorum 47 – 44 percent.

How is this “not so good” for Santorum?

Rocks on February 22, 2012 at 11:16 AM

I’m a Protestant woman who has used birth control, and though my preferred candidate is Gingrich, I would gladly vote for Santorum over Romney.

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Santorum doesn’t think you are a Christian. You fine with that?

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Romney lacks what Santorum & Newt have. He is not a Conservative.

bluefox on February 22, 2012 at 11:13 AM

But he said he’s “severely conservative”!

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 11:18 AM

joana on February 22, 2012 at 11:12 AM

You are an Obama supporter, we got that already. Next…

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Santorum doesn’t think you are a Christian. You fine with that?

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Link to that statement please.

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Santorum doesn’t think you are a Christian. You fine with that?

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 11:17 AM

I’m an Evangelical Protestant, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. How do you like me NOW…

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Santorum doesn’t think you are a Christian. You fine with that?

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Yes, he does. He was speaking of those churches who have “lost their First Love”, like the Church at Ephesus In Revelation 2.

Look it up.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:21 AM

left or right source…this came from his mouth!! URGH. Romney should drop now!!! We need a real alternative to Obama…the guy sounds just like the One…He is the Rom to me now!

This is why Ron Paul is a marginal, at best, candidate. You cannot just shut down all, or even a huge chunk of, government spending on Feb 1, 2013. That is totally unrealistic as are most other Ron Paul supporters’ ideas. I am a small government Republican but know what will happen if you end government as we know it too fast. We need a candidate who can rationally end the growth of government, not destroy our economy, while eliminating most odious regulations, laws, and bureaucracies one by one in the dark of night.

Santorum supporters need to come up with an explanation of why Santorum has the gall to hit Romney for flipflopping on social issues after reading this: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_t4cAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3GMEAAAAIBAJ&dq=santorum+progressive&pg=6015%2C5485825

MadJayhawk on February 22, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Agree. He’s forcing a big government that spends most of your money and buries future generations in debt – and, as the Greeks are finding out, third world poverty. His voting record in the senate makes that indisputably clear. He’s also forcing unions control over the economy and taxpayers money – his voting record in the senate makes that indisputably clear. And he’ll send some of your money to his donors. And to Planet Parenthood. His voting record in the senate makes that indisputably clear too.

joana on February 22, 2012 at 11:12 AM

And as he told NPR in 2005, he wants government in every American bedroom, too. Those are HIS words, not mine:

They (conservatives) have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do. Government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulation low and that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues, you know, people should do whatever they want. Well, that is not how traditional conservatives view the world, and I think most conservatives understand that individuals can’t go it alone, that there is no such society that I’m aware of where we’ve had radical individualism and that it succeeds as a culture.

Silly me. I’m a radical individual. I thought that was a conservative position.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Deafdog on February 22, 2012 at 11:12 AM

With Romney it is the end justifies the means. That more than anything is what I cannot tolerate. Yes, he likes to stay above the fray, but this is HIS SuperPac, these are HIS advisors. And HE is the one that started the negative attack ads against Newt. What he did in Iowa & FL against Newt is a disgrace.

bluefox on February 22, 2012 at 11:24 AM

OY! Not too hyperbolic. Get the boards, get the nails, put up the cross. Hey wait a minute, didn’t we go through this in 2008 when almost every question Romney got involved Mormonism? It was almost like he was “slandered, demeaned, and crucified” for “adherence to his Christianity”.
rhombus on February 22, 2012 at 10:48 AM

Are you kidding? No such thing happened to Romney. and by the way, just for the record, some biblical scholars do not believe that Mormonism and christianity are the same. So, to say that Romney was crucified for his “adherence to christianity” would be dismissed by some(many?) Christians.

http://www.christianity.com/Home/Christian%20Living%20Features/11628184/

they lie on February 22, 2012 at 11:24 AM

KOOLAIDS@10:00am
I was under the impression they were one and the same.
sorta like Clark Kent and superman, never here at the same time!

angrymike on February 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Silly me. I’m a radical individual. I thought that was a conservative position.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Not silly, intellectually dishonest is more like it. Santorum was specifically speaking of “Radical Individualists” i.e. Anarchist leaning Libertarians, in other words, Ronulans.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Silly me. I’m a radical individual. I thought that was a conservative position.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Let’s talk hypocrisy.

In December 2005, Romney required all Massachusetts hospitals, including Catholic ones, to provide emergency contraception to rape victims, even though some Catholics view the morning-after pill as a form of abortion.

He said he was acting on his legal counsel’s interpretation of a new state law – one passed by lawmakers despite his veto – but he also said that “in his heart of hearts,’’ he believed that rape victims should have access to emergency contraception.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:28 AM

bluefox on February 22, 2012 at 11:13 AM
But he said he’s “severely conservative”!

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 11:18 AM

He’s severe allright, but Conservative he’s not, LOL I’m surprised he doesn’t have a C tattooed to his forehead:-)

bluefox on February 22, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Let’s talk hypocrisy.

In December 2005, Romney required all Massachusetts hospitals, including Catholic ones, to provide emergency contraception to rape victims, even though some Catholics view the morning-after pill as a form of abortion.

He said he was acting on his legal counsel’s interpretation of a new state law – one passed by lawmakers despite his veto – but he also said that “in his heart of hearts,’’ he believed that rape victims should have access to emergency contraception.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:28 AM

THE HORROR!

antisense on February 22, 2012 at 11:31 AM

And I hate to say it, Mittbots, but that Catholic vote will be a lot easier to secure if we’re running an actual Catholic on the ticket instead of a Mormon.

Doughboy on February 22, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Hmmmm. You know what this sounds like?

a capella on February 22, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Santorum doesn’t think you are a Christian. You fine with that?

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Yes, he does. He was speaking of those churches who have “lost their First Love”, like the Church at Ephesus In Revelation 2.

Look it up.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Darn, I was going to play with him a bit. ;-)

The people trying to make hay out of those comments seem to think it’s the first time these thoughts have ever been uttered. LOL He’s not saying anything I haven’t been hearing in Baptist and non-denominational churches for years.

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Are you kidding? No such thing happened to Romney. and by the way, just for the record, some biblical scholars do not believe that Mormonism and christianity are the same. So, to say that Romney was crucified for his “adherence to christianity” would be dismissed by some(many?) Christians.

http://www.christianity.com/Home/Christian%20Living%20Features/11628184/

they lie on February 22, 2012 at 11:24 AM

See, here’s the thing. Your “some (many?) Christians” who don’t believe these folks or those folks are “real” Christians are bigots. Seething, ignorant bigots. I do not want them in my political party. They are an embarrassment. I do not want my party giving them the slightest moment of consideration. They should be challenged, ridiculed, and eventually ignored until they slink away as the raging bigots that they are. Maybe they can join the Westboro Baptist Church. They’ll fit in there. And when Rick Santorum says that “mainline Protestants have left the world of God,” he is being a bigot, too. Their religion — Romney’s religion — and MY religion is none of Rick Santorum’s or anyone else’s damn business.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Hmmmm. You know what this sounds like?

a capella on February 22, 2012 at 11:33 AM

It sounds to me as an acknowledgement that there are a lot more Catholics than there are Mormons. Just my take on it.

bluefox on February 22, 2012 at 11:36 AM

With Romney it is the end justifies the means. That more than anything is what I cannot tolerate. Yes, he likes to stay above the fray, but this is HIS SuperPac, these are HIS advisors. And HE is the one that started the negative attack ads against Newt. What he did in Iowa & FL against Newt is a disgrace.

bluefox on February 22, 2012 at 11:24 AM

That’s politics.

Newt got personally sucked into the anti-BAIN anti-capitalism attacks on Romney. That was a big mistake on Newt’s part. Romney is not making that mistake, which is a good thing.

{I’ve got to vote for whatever meathead comes out of this grinder}

Deafdog on February 22, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Re. Santorum and Atheists on HA. We get it. You don’t like Santorum and don’t intend to vote for him. Big effing deal, since the majority of atheists voted for Obama in 2008 and will do so in 2012. So, you are irrelevant in any discussion re. Pub candidates. Go back to Daily Kos. I suspect you left Huff Post since it was sold and became a little less radical for you. No one here gives you any cred. on what you have to say about conservative candidates or any Pub candidate. You are Obama supporters. We know that. Quit wasting band width with your liberal crapola.

they lie on February 22, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Not silly, intellectually dishonest is more like it. Santorum was specifically speaking of “Radical Individualists” i.e. Anarchist leaning Libertarians, in other words, Ronulans.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Intellectually dishonest? Nice try. He was arguing VERY DIRECTLY for government to “get involved in the bedroom.”

You’re right. That’s radical. And it certainly isn’t conservative.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Well, now we see Romney pulling ahead in both Michigan and Arizona. To be honest, I thought Santorum would be performing a little better at this point, considering his previous wins. I guess Michigan and Arizona voters are smarter than that, though, and are benefiting from the information ads being run in those states.

The thing about the homophobic, anti-birth control bigot Rick Santorum is that, the more people learn about him, the less they like him. We already see that happening in Michigan, where his short-lived lead is collapsing. Up to this point, Santorum has been treated like an afterthought and hasn’t received much scrutiny, while Romney, who has maintained a consistently high level of support, has been targeted by his rivals for months.

I time it will be common knowledge that Rick Santorum is nothing but a theocrat bigot and a fiscal liberal… and a currently unvetted one at that. It may take awhile to get out the word about Rick Santorum, but as voters get more familiar with his background, his support will continue to decline state by state.

I expect a bit of “rallying around” the self-righteous, bigoted Santorum when he delivers his inevitable tirades against the media and blames them for simply wanting to tear down a supposedly devout religious man. This is what happened with Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich.

bluegill on February 22, 2012 at 11:41 AM

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:28 AM

I’m with Romney here. In my heart of hearts, I, too, “believe that rape victims should have access to emergency contraception.”

And I’ll bet something north of 95% of my fellow Americans agree with me. What’s more, as I said here on another thread recently, I have NOT ONE DOUBT that if Rick Santorum’s wife or daughter were raped, they would be gulping down the morning after pill. Not. One. Doubt.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Hmmmm. You know what this sounds like?

a capella on February 22, 2012 at 11:33 AM

It’s pur “Identity politics.” A lot of people also think we gotta have a woman or a hispanic (perhaps both) on the ticket for the same reason…

Deafdog on February 22, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Santorum is a threat to who we are as Americans. He is a fringe who should not be even allowed to run for office

social-justice on February 22, 2012 at 11:46 AM

bluegill on February 22, 2012 at 11:41 AM

The polls are varied right now, csdeven. Not all of them are showing the same thing. It’s still close.

You need to get out of the Northeast some time. There’s a great big country out there.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:35 AM

You are one hate filled person. Calling religious scholars bigots who know more about Christianity than I or you will ever know, and who are respected leaders in their respective denominations as well as communities speaks volumes about your religious insecurity. If Romney happens to be the nominee, you will really get unhinged when the Chitown mafia get through with Mormonism. Me personally, I admire and respect Mormons as do most Christians.

they lie on February 22, 2012 at 11:47 AM

To be entirely honest, I think ED is trying his best to be impartial so as to avoid anyone claiming that he is supporting Santorum only because Santorum is Catholic. In attempting to prove his impartiality Ed end’s up over compensating a bit and looks Anti-Santorum.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:07 AM

It’s funny to see Ed Morrissey, an admitted supporter of the homophobic bigot Rick Santorum, act like a week or two worth of polls showing Santorum (who most people know next to nothing about) doing as well as Romney against Obama is proof of any kind of superior electability, when Romney has consistently been polling the best against Obama for months… and continues to do so.

Santorum would do worst against Obama, once people get more information about the bigot Santorum.

Even Newt Gingrich would be more competitive in a general election than the fiscal liberal and theocrat freak Rick Santorum.

bluegill on February 22, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Intellectually dishonest? Nice try. He was arguing VERY DIRECTLY for government to “get involved in the bedroom.”

You’re right. That’s radical. And it certainly isn’t conservative.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM

No he wasn’t, he was arguing against the government passing laws that force people to accept what they consider immoral behavior regardless of whether it conflicts with their religious beliefs. You would have to HAVE Religious Convictions to be able to understand this.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Santorum is a threat to who we are as Americans. He is a fringe who should not be even allowed to run for office

social-justice on February 22, 2012 at 11:46 AM

OK, I’ll bite. Who are you? Why does a decent God fearing man. instill such hatred?

katy the mean old lady on February 22, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Brokered Convention / Generic Republican 2012.

Archivarix on February 22, 2012 at 11:52 AM

bluegill on February 22, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Try decaf, csdeven. Your name-calling’s not swaying any votes over to Mitt.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:53 AM

No he wasn’t, he was arguing against the government passing laws that force people to accept what they consider immoral behavior regardless of whether it conflicts with their religious beliefs. You would have to HAVE Religious Convictions to be able to understand this.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Another “Christian” telling me what my “religious convictions” are. Are every one of you guys a priest – or do you just play one on the internet?

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:54 AM

You are one hate filled person. Calling religious scholars bigots who know more about Christianity than I or you will ever know, and who are respected leaders in their respective denominations as well as communities speaks volumes about your religious insecurity. If Romney happens to be the nominee, you will really get unhinged when the Chitown mafia get through with Mormonism. Me personally, I admire and respect Mormons as do most Christians.

they lie on February 22, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Oh, please. I don’t bow before so-called “religious scholars” any more than I bow before the “Constitutional scholar” currently occupying the White House. Credentialed doesn’t mean wise. Barack doesn’t know jack about the Constitution, and if your religious scholars think it’s a-ok to declare these people “true Christians” and those people as not, then they don’t know jack about Christianity either.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Wow, I didn’t realize that yet ANOTHER poll is now showing Santorum’s lead in Michigan collapsing. And now Santorum is falling further behind in Arizona?

Sadly for Rick Santorum, it looks like homophobia, holier than thou self-righteousness, big government paternalism and Protestant-bashing isn’t selling as well as he would have hoped.

Maybe Rick Santorum is going to have to start asking that billionaire benefactor of his for some more money? Still, I doubt that even 100 million dollars could persuade enough voters to nominate that unelectable bigot Rick Santorum, especially after more people learn what the bigot Santorum is all about.

bluegill on February 22, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Another “Christian” telling me what my “religious convictions” are. Are every one of you guys a priest – or do you just play one on the internet?

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Again with the intentional intellectual dishonesty. I’m not presuming to tell you what your religious convictions are, I’m just questioning whether you have any.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Look its bluegill
hey any chance of seeing Cdseven while your on, sockpuppet?

angrymike on February 22, 2012 at 12:10 PM

William Jennings Sanctimonious has no chance in the general, and will replace Mondale as the one suffering the worst defeat in history.

galtani on February 22, 2012 at 12:12 PM

Oh, please. I don’t bow before so-called “religious scholars” any more than I bow before the “Constitutional scholar” currently occupying the White House. Credentialed doesn’t mean wise. Barack doesn’t know jack about the Constitution, and if your religious scholars think it’s a-ok to declare these people “true Christians” and those people as not, then they don’t know jack about Christianity either.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 12:00 PM

I’m guessing you have never read any of the letters written by the Apostle Paul. Or at least have conveniently forgotten their content.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 12:12 PM

Again with the intentional intellectual dishonesty. I’m not presuming to tell you what your religious convictions are, I’m just questioning whether you have any.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 12:08 PM

You do not get to question me — or anyone else — about my religious convictions. That is the point. And that is why Rick Santorum cannot be the GOP candidate. He sticks his nose where it doesn’t belong.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Are every one of you guys a priest – or do you just play one on the internet?

What is a priest’s job?
What is a Christian’s duty, as required by Christ?
What is the difference?
“Study to shew thyself approved, a workman rightly dividing the Word of Truth.”

When I went through USMC Basic Training in 1985 I believe it was, my Senior Drill Instructor, Staff Sergeant Jashonka (spelled phonetically, except for the “y” sounding “j”, which is correct) got angry with me because I objected to something. Drill Instructor, Sergeant Martin demanded everyone to loudly proclaim he was “god of the platoon.” I refused and I spoke to the chaplain about it. My Senior yelled at me “you must think you’re God’s thirteenth disciple or something!” Well, duh! As are all true Christians!

“If the world hates you [meaning it will, if you're doing it right], remember, it hated Me first.”

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Link to that statement please.

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 11:19 AM

“We look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.”

The people trying to make hay out of those comments seem to think it’s the first time these thoughts have ever been uttered. LOL He’s not saying anything I haven’t been hearing in Baptist and non-denominational churches for years.
Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Hey, if you are fine with being regarded as a non Christian by your presidential candidate then that’s your business.

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Oops make that csdeven err bluegill,
Who’s Clark Kent and who’s superman?

angrymike on February 22, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Santorum is a threat to who we are as Americans. He is a fringe who should not be even allowed to run for office

social-justice on February 22, 2012 at 11:46 AM

He shouldn’t be “allowed” to run for office? And you think Santorum is the “fringe.” *rolls eyes* Take your social justice and dangle.

magicbeans on February 22, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Santorum’s strength comes from Tea Party supporters and evangelical Christians, but the surprising demo for Santorum is women. He beats Romney 34/28 among women, just as Gallup found yesterday.

Another chink in Allah’s “Santorum’s gender Gap” meme…

Norwegian on February 22, 2012 at 12:22 PM

I’m an Evangelical Protestant, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. How do you like me NOW…

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Like or respect?

Yes, he does. He was speaking of those churches who have “lost their First Love”, like the Church at Ephesus In Revelation 2.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Funny, he didn’t mention any of that. Thanks for spinning it for him though.

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 12:22 PM

You do not get to question me — or anyone else — about my religious convictions. That is the point. And that is why Rick Santorum cannot be the GOP candidate. He sticks his nose where it doesn’t belong.

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 12:15 PM

On the contrary, you could not be more mistaken.

1 Corinthians 5:12

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 12:24 PM

and if your religious scholars think it’s a-ok to declare these people “true Christians” and those people as not, then they don’t know jack about Christianity either.

Actually, I showed very clearly how Mormons are not True Christians (in my article Are Catholics Christians? where I go on to say many are not, and many Protestants aren’t, either (and I’m a Protestant)). I also showed very clearly how Jehovah’s Witnesses are not True Christians. It doesn’t really take all that much effort to supply the proof. All you need is the Bible.

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Yes, he does. He was speaking of those churches who have “lost their First Love”, like the Church at Ephesus In Revelation 2.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Funny, he didn’t mention any of that. Thanks for spinning it for him though.

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Nuance is not one of your strong points, is it?

And so what we saw this domino effect, once the colleges fell and those who were being education in our institutions, the next was the church. Now you’d say, ‘wait, the Catholic Church’? No. We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic but the Judeo-Christian ethic was a Protestant Judeo-Christian ethic, sure the Catholics had some influence, but this was a Protestant country and the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it. So they attacked mainline Protestantism, they attacked the Church, and what better way to go after smart people who also believe they’re pious to use both vanity and pride to also go after the Church.

Flora Duh on February 22, 2012 at 12:33 PM

And, oh by the way, Christians are called to judge. In fact, Christians are demanded to judge. But that’s alright you get mad at Christians for judging, because Christian doctrine makes people mad.

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 12:35 PM

On the contrary, you could not be more mistaken.

1 Corinthians 5:12

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 12:24 PM

Ah, Biblical authority. Take a look at Luke 6:37, Luke 6:41, John 8:7, Romans 2:1, Romans 14:10, and James 4:11.

But even if you manage to twist those verses into some convoluted argument in favor of your belief that you have the right to judge me about my religious convictions, let me say that as an American, you do not. No one does. And it is this very kind of paternalistic sanctimony that will keep Rick Santorum off the ballot in 2012. And for that — the good judgment of my fellow citizens — I say, Thank God!

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Santorum doesn’t think you are a Christian. You fine with that?

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 11:17 AM

This isn’t even true. Vatican II pretty much made that clear.

More to the point, you’re just flame throwing because of your own hatred against something though it is unclear if it is the RCC or Christians in general. There is a word for people like you- heretic.

But here’s the important thing. We need to elect the most capable leader and we do not have a religious litmus test for the office. Rick Santorum is far better a man than the jug-eared sorta Muslim who spent 20 years in a racist church and teaching his children to hate whites.

Happy Nomad on February 22, 2012 at 12:41 PM

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Wow, do you suppose Satan might come to earth disguised as a…Christian bigot? Hmmmm…

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Another chink in Allah’s “Santorum’s gender Gap” meme…

Norwegian on February 22, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Allah, for whatever reason, has a personal hatred for Santorum.

Happy Nomad on February 22, 2012 at 12:43 PM

Flora Duh

Nuance is not one of your strong points, is it?

What part of he doesn’t regard mainstream Protestants as Christians am I supposed to see some shades of gray in? You are a ” Protestant woman who has used birth control”. Do you really want a president who thinks of you as a heretic?

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 12:49 PM

PS. If Romney was trying to make us all Morman’s I would be just as offended.

Tater Salad on February 22, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Please elaborate on what Santorum has done to make us all Catholic. Please elaborate on the plan you suspect he will use to make us all Catholic if he is elected.

oldroy on February 22, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Ah, Biblical authority. Take a look at Luke 6:37, Luke 6:41, John 8:7, Romans 2:1, Romans 14:10, and James 4:11.

But even if you manage to twist those verses into some convoluted argument in favor of your belief that you have the right to judge me about my religious convictions, let me say that as an American, you do not. No one does. And it is this very kind of paternalistic sanctimony that will keep Rick Santorum off the ballot in 2012. And for that — the good judgment of my fellow citizens — I say, Thank God!

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Somebody obviously can’t tell the difference between inside and outside.

SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Re.Happy Nomad

This isn’t even true. Vatican II pretty much made that clear.

This is what the guy said:
“We look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.”

Basically, if someone doesn’t think birth control (not abortion, but birth control) is a threat to the country or whatever other doctrine that Rick Sntorum has embraced he isn’t going to see them as Christians.

More to the point, you’re just flame throwing because of your own hatred against something though it is unclear if it is the RCC or Christians in general. There is a word for people like you- heretic.

How dare you call me a heretic? You don’t know the first thing about me. There’s a word for people like you as well.

We need to elect the most capable leader and we do not have a religious litmus test for the office.

Well a nanny state, big spending idiot like santorum isn’t that person.

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 1:02 PM

You guys have a right to be atheists but you should know that every time you write this bigoted crap,it just helps Santorum.

fight like a girl on February 22, 2012 at 11:07 AM

I never really liked Romney, but his supporters have turned that into disgust and a passion that he does not get the nomination.
Insulting people in the most vile ways and then expecting them to vote for your guy if he gets the nod is not a good strategy.

BakerAllie on February 22, 2012 at 1:05 PM

But even if you manage to twist those verses into some convoluted argument in favor of your belief that you have the right to judge me about my religious convictions

Hey, irrational thought, the only thing necessary to “twist the words in the Bible around” to say we are required to judge, is to actually quote the Bible and stay true to context. I mean, if you don’t like quoting and context, you sure aren’t going to like the Great White Throne all that much, either.

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 1:05 PM

I’ll see your Santorum and raise you two Romneys

Mitt up by 16 in Arizona and, as one would expect, leads Santorum 2-1 among women voters

Basilsbest on February 22, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Man, Romney was winning or tied for the retards in the party demanded their say.

rubberneck on February 22, 2012 at 1:09 PM

Wow, do you suppose Satan might come to earth disguised as a…Christian bigot? Hmmmm…

Rational Thought on February 22, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Nope, because he’s been walking the face of the Earth for thousands of years already. But, yeah, your “Christian bigot” thing is rather accurate insomuch as it defines the anti-Christian line of thinking. All true Christians will be called bigots, because the world follows “the god of this world” which is, most assuredly, Satan, while true Christians follow the One True God through Jesus Christ (who just so happens to be Satan’s gravest enemy).

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 1:10 PM

The thread and the way it deteriorated is a microcosm of what a Santorum v. Obama election will be like. Throw a Bible quote at ‘em. Yeah that’s a great way to preach to the choir. B-b-but it’s the Truuuuuuth….

How long since anyone in this thread even mentioned the economy?

rhombus on February 22, 2012 at 1:14 PM

Hey, irrational thought, weren’t you one of the ones who lied and claimed Romney declared all Protestants not Christians? I know that V7_Sport did indeed push that lie.

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 1:15 PM

How long since anyone in this thread even mentioned the economy?

rhombus on February 22, 2012 at 1:14 PM

Over on Right Scoop they have a CNN interview with Santorum about the Satan headline. Direct quote:

Guys these are questions that are not relevant to what’s being discussed in America today. What we’re talking about in America today is trying to get America growing. That’s what my speeches are about. That’s we’re going to talk about in this campaign. If they want to go ahead and dig up old speeches to a religious group they can go right ahead and do so. I’m going to stay on message. I’m going to talk about the things Americans want to talk about which is creating jobs, getting our country safer and secure, and yeah taking on the forces around this world who want to do harm to America. And you bet I will take them on!

BakerAllie on February 22, 2012 at 1:18 PM

Hey, the Mittbots have to lie through their scummy teeth about what Santorum said. They’ve been doing it on this thread. They’ve been doing it all over Hot Air. No doubt they’ve been doing it on the air-waves and in paid ads.

So, rhombus, instead of your neat little trick in attacking Christians there, why don’t you demand the Mittbots actually tell the truth for a change? And that would include not lying by omission, not claiming Santorum said something he did not say, etc, etc, etc.

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 1:19 PM

More of Santorum’s viewpoints in the link below. Pretty creepy!

I would like to know how the Tea Party can back Santorum.

Santorum does NOT believe in personal autonomy and he supports the mixing of church, state and bedroom.

Are Santorum’s viewpoints not exactly opposite of the Constitution, which is the foundation of the Tea Party movement?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/rick-santorum-defends-big-government-intrusion-rejects-radical-individualism-the-video/

Sparky5253 on February 22, 2012 at 1:22 PM

The thread and the way it deteriorated is a microcosm of what a Santorum v. Obama election will be like. Throw a Bible quote at ‘em. Yeah that’s a great way to preach to the choir. B-b-but it’s the Truuuuuuth….

How long since anyone in this thread even mentioned the economy?

rhombus on February 22, 2012 at 1:14 PM

Yep. Nuthin’ the socons like better than a religious issue so they can throw Bible verses back and forth, and Rick makes their cup runneth over. Really accomplishes nothing other than reinforce stereotypes..

a capella on February 22, 2012 at 1:22 PM

Romney
Rasmussen Tracking 2/19 – 2/21 1500 LV 47 41 Obama +6

Santy
Rasmussen Tracking 2/19 – 2/21 1500 LV 46 43 Obama +3

Hey Mittbots tell me about that elect-ability thing again…..

angryed on February 22, 2012 at 1:22 PM

Yeah, cause no successful candidate would ever dare talk about evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uGqWSuU66Y&feature=player_embedded#!

He even mentions salvation and God. Good thing we left that theocracy behind years ago.

BakerAllie on February 22, 2012 at 1:25 PM

How long since anyone in this thread even mentioned the economy?

rhombus on February 22, 2012 at 1:14 PM

It was a speech from 2008, given to Catholics…
It is so easy to manipulate the masses…look at the shiny object.
Rick answered the questions, and now wants to move on to more important topics…but the public are gossip hounds, as shown by most all the posts, and so easy to move weak minded people.
If Rick gets taken out, this will embolden the left, and Mitt will have to explain celestial wives, being God of his own world, baptizing the dead (and good luck with the Jews on that one), wearing magic underwear, not allowing everyone to worship in his “temples”, women not obtaining the same status…no, this isn’t to weaken Rick, it’s to weaken all the candidates…and most of you just fall right into the trap…so easy to manipulate.
Romney was a mishie, he believes in the most extreme views of the Mormon’s…including honoring Smith and Young and their child brides…oh yeah, 14 year old girls, married to 40 year old men were the standard of day…and is he married to his wife or to the church first?
Wrong? Bigoted? Biased? Who cares, it will be a bloodbath, and Mitt will have his supporters to thank, because it has become an issue…religion has taken the place of the economy, unemployment, energy, because of a speech in 2008, and his supporters think that is just keen…just wait, you will all be crying about the bigoted people who make fun of the Mormon religion, and that Mitt will be a God of his own world someday…

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 1:25 PM

Yep. Nuthin’ the socons like better than a religious issue so they can throw Bible verses back and forth, and Rick makes their cup runneth over. Really accomplishes nothing other than reinforce stereotypes..

a capella on February 22, 2012 at 1:22 PM

What do the nocons like?

Constance on February 22, 2012 at 1:26 PM


I never really liked Romney, but his supporters have turned that into disgust and a passion that he does not get the nomination. Insulting people in the most vile ways and then expecting them to vote for your guy if he gets the nod is not a good strategy.

BakerAllie on February 22, 2012 at 1:05 PM

Mote, beam, etc.

HTL on February 22, 2012 at 1:26 PM

V7,

If you got your head out of the sand, and read the bible verses I listed, you would see that that was exactly what Santorum was alluding to. But, that’s alright.

You’re much too smart for that.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Sparky5253 on February 22, 2012 at 1:22 PM

Well, Rick had the highest score of any Senator for fiscal voting during the last 4 years of the Bush Administration, an A rating from the National Taxpayers Union…and A’s in every one of his 12 years in the Senate…in the top 10% of all Senators…no one else running has a record even close to that…from an unbiased detailed report of every vote he had given, nearly 8,000 votes.
But facts won’t matter to guys like you, gossip is much more interesting, it it suits you much better.

right2bright on February 22, 2012 at 1:30 PM

Is Ed stuck in the spin cycle? –

Buy Danish on February 22, 2012 at 11:00 AM

No its you that is dizzy with Mittlove.

SparkPlug on February 22, 2012 at 1:31 PM

I see a lot of Romney bashing on his positions and his unelectability, but people here have

1)Compared Santorum to Hitler (except that he *might* not kill as many people)
2)Called him a bigot, nutjob, dictator, etc.
3)Called Santorum’s supporters trailer trash
4)Used Santorum’s dead child as a joke and used it against supporters who have lost a child
5)Used vile sexual nicknames about his family.

Calling Romney a flip-flopper or “Mittens” somehow doesn’t really have the same sting.
I’m not on board with the Mormon-bashing, but to say it’s an been an equal fight is not accurate.

I’m not going to stop pointing out that this isn’t a smart way to get the team backing you.

BakerAllie on February 22, 2012 at 1:36 PM

Hey, irrational thought, weren’t you one of the ones who lied and claimed Romney declared all Protestants not Christians? I know that V7_Sport did indeed push that lie.

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 1:15 PM

That is an outright lie.

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 1:36 PM

To be entirely honest, I think ED is trying his best to be impartial so as to avoid anyone claiming that he is supporting Santorum only because Santorum is Catholic. In attempting to prove his impartiality Ed end’s up over compensating a bit and looks Anti-Santorum.
SWalker on February 22, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Ed does a pretty good job of being objective most of the time, but sometimes I’m a bit befuddled by his conclusions and can’t help but thing they’re a wee bit prejudicial.

No its you that is dizzy with Mittlove.
SparkPlug on February 22, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Riiight, my reading of a poll which shows Romney way ahead of Santorum head to head against Obama is nothing but the work of Cupid’s arrow.

Buy Danish on February 22, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Nuthin’ the socons like better than a religious issue so they can throw Bible verses back and forth

A capella, I have seen a great many of your comments and agreed with a great many of your comments so I have to wonder what happened to make you write the above. Allow me to educate you.

Not all Social Conservatives are Christians.
Not all Social Conservatives are even religious.

But beyond that, your comment (quoted above so you can see it) is extraordinarily hate-filled and anti-Christian, anti-(insert deeply held faith here), and absolutely without basis in fact.

You truly are better than that.

Do I really have to show where I already endorsed a Mormon (who, by definition, is not Christian) for Congress out of Utah? And a black woman at that? I mean, why don’t you go the Full Monty and accuse Social Conservatives of being misogynist racists, to boot?

Do I have to show where I gave Tammy Bruce her props on more than one occasion? Or where I gave JetBoy his props? Or the Liberal aphrael his?

Here’s the thing, a capella, Christian Conservatives, if you slander them or libel them, won’t come gunning for you literally, but may very well come gunning for you metaphorically. And Mitt Romney’s supporters, many of them, have been highly active in slandering and libeling many Christians in their fool’s-errand effort to make Mitt sound better (or at least very bad but not as bad as “that other guy (all of them)”).

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 1:37 PM

What do the nocons like?

Constance on February 22, 2012 at 1:26 PM

I don’t know.

a capella on February 22, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Ed does a pretty good job of being objective most of the time, but sometimes I’m a bit befuddled by his conclusions and can’t help but thing they’re a wee bit prejudicial.

Buy Danish on February 22, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Yeah, but I don’t really expect them to be impartial on this stuff.
This is a blog first and foremost. Ed is Catholic so it’s not surprising that he likes Santorum. As I said yesterday, Allahpundit has been the most surprising blogger in this for me. He is giving Santorum a way more favorable reporting than I would have thought knowing his views.

BakerAllie on February 22, 2012 at 1:41 PM

Romney
Rasmussen Tracking 2/19 – 2/21 1500 LV 47 41 Obama +6

Santy
Rasmussen Tracking 2/19 – 2/21 1500 LV 46 43 Obama +3

Hey Mittbots tell me about that elect-ability thing again…..

angryed on February 22, 2012 at 1:22 PM

Santorum’s numbers drop whenever and wherever he is vetted. This is why he runs better in the states that are not being presently contested. His numbers are those of a generic conservative Republican. Once people take a close look at him they see an angry religious zealot who is a Big Government Social Conservative. He’s clearly not electable.

Basilsbest on February 22, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Re. kingsjester

If you got your head out of the sand, and read the bible verses I listed, you would see that that was exactly what Santorum was alluding to. But, that’s alright.

To the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands.
2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.
3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.
4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first.
5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

You’re much too smart for that.

Or I could legitimately disagree. I think you are reading something into it that wasn’t there. I think you are seeing what was a snarky little dig that is indicative of how this guy thinks as something other than what it was.

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 1:50 PM

That is an outright lie.

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 1:36 PM

Oh? Which person who declared he or she is a Protestant did you say Santorum thinks that person is a Christian? Because all I’ve seen is you’re false accusation against Santorum (that means you lied, since you’re none too brilliant) whenever someone mentions his or her Protestantism.

Here, let me get the quote for you. It’s a quote of you speaking lies. In this thread.

Basically, if someone doesn’t think birth control (not abortion, but birth control) is a threat to the country or whatever other doctrine that Rick Sntorum has embraced he isn’t going to see them as Christians.

That’s not the quote I’m looking for, but that is an out-and-out lie on your part, just to serve your Master.

What part of he doesn’t regard mainstream Protestants as Christians am I supposed to see some shades of gray in? You are a ” Protestant woman who has used birth control”. Do you really want a president who thinks of you as a heretic?

Still not the quote I’m looking for, but once again, you have to out-and-out lie about what Santorum said — and believes — to push your absolutely dishonest and absolutely hateful agenda.

Alright, so I found the quote I was looking for, where you had to lie. “Santorum doesn’t think” Flora Duh’s “a Christian.” You have enough wiggle room in that quote-and-lie, to say you didn’t accuse Santorum of thinking no Protestants are Christian. But you have yet to provide any positive evidence for a Protestant your lying mouth (and hands in this instance) would claim Santorum believes is a Christian.

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 1:55 PM

V7_Sport on February 22, 2012 at 1:50 PM

I could say the same for you. I think you’re pushing Santorum out their as some sort of bigoted Catholic, because it fits the “anti-Rick” meme, and reinforces your candidate.

In the Heartland, in Southern Baptist and other Protestant churches, we hear this same message about churches who have lost their “First Love”, choosing to be of the world, instead of in the world, all the time.

If you’ll notice, I’m not the only once who gleaned this from this video.

If you Mitt Supporters want other posters to listen to what you have to say, cut down on the snark, and realize that you’re not any smarter than non-Mitt supporters.

kingsjester on February 22, 2012 at 2:00 PM

Yeah, but I don’t really expect them to be impartial on this stuff.
This is a blog first and foremost. Ed is Catholic so it’s not surprising that he likes Santorum. As I said yesterday, Allahpundit has been the most surprising blogger in this for me. He is giving Santorum a way more favorable reporting than I would have thought knowing his views.

BakerAllie on February 22, 2012 at 1:41 PM

Allah was raised a Catholic so he’s well-versed in their belief system and iirc, he once said that if he had children he’d raise them as Catholics. Ironically, I actually disagree with Allah’s theory that Santorum might try to make contraceptives illegal (I also don’t think R.S. was demeaning Protestant churches – he was stating a fact). I think R.S. was merely talking in terms of what states have the right to do and he’s technically correct, but as Mitt said – no one wants to do this, it’s working just fine.

That being said, R.S. comes across very poorly to those of us who aren’t keen on having a president who warns about “sensuality” and has a unique view of constitutionally enshrined “liberty”. There are plenty of moral issues which are fiscal issues, and I wish he’d stick to that playbook instead of constantly assuming the role of scolding us as Moralizer-in-Chief.

Buy Danish on February 22, 2012 at 2:00 PM

Buy Danish, this is a Christian nation. The Constitution is wholly inadequate for any other. — Paraphrase of the Father of the Constitution, John Adams.

John Hitchcock on February 22, 2012 at 2:06 PM

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