Matthews: Catholic Church a haven for conservative bigots, or something

posted at 11:40 am on February 21, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Say, did Chris Matthews make this complaint when Barack Obama won the Catholic vote in 2008 by a 54/45 margin? Naaaah:

SCOTT WHITLOCK: Hi, Mr. Matthews, my name is Scott Whitlock. I’m with the Media Research Center and-

CHRIS MATTHEWS: What’s the Media Research Center?  

WHITLOCK: Uh, we write about liberal media bias. 

[Matthews visibly sighs and looks irritated. Audience laughs.]

MATTHEWS: Earlier tonight, you were talking about Nixon and the Southern Strategy and bigotry and things like that you and you said, quote, “If you’re really anti-gay, you become a Catholic now.” [Audience laughs.] I was wondering if you were saying that bigots become Catholic now and if you wanted to expand or apologize for that? [Audience laughs.]

MATTHEWS: I think there are people who have chosen to convert to the Catholic faith because they don’t like the liberal positions taken by their sectarian groups. That’s a fact. So, you can write that down. No, you can write that down. 

WHITLOCK: So, you’re saying Catholicism is drawing bigots? Is that what you’re saying?

MATTHEWS: I’m saying that some people who are bigoted against gay people have changed religions. Yes. You got it right.

As a Catholic, I’m a little bemused by this argument.  Almost all Christian denominations oppose same-sex marriage, and Catholics aren’t the most vocal on that point, at least not uniformly.  Of all the larger Christian denominations, Catholics are the most liberal in terms of voting record, not the most conservative; Democrats are much more competitive among Catholics than among Protestants and especially evangelicals. As an active member of a Catholic parish, I can assure you that it’s much more liberal than any workplace in which I have ever worked.

There seems to be a lot less hesitation in the national media to indulge in attacking Catholics, especially on ludicrous and unsupported allegations like Matthews’.  I think we see pretty clearly where the bigotry originates, and, well, I’m writing that down.

Update: Yes, I’m very well aware that Matthews is Catholic, which makes this even more bizarre.


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Solaratov on February 21, 2012 at 12:40 PM

She has her head so far up Zero’s butt that its cut off oxygen to her brain-therefore she can’t help herself.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:42 PM

The institution is run by men who do not marry so they inherently have a disdain for women

liberal4life on February 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Does that include the Virgin Mary???

(hint: see all S American/Central American and N American Catholics)

Odie1941 on February 21, 2012 at 12:43 PM

For the last several years the Catholic church has acted very aggressively to remove the molesting priests. Further, they never changed their doctrine to accomodate the homosexuals in their midst and conform to the world, as the Episcopalians, LUtherans and Presbyterians did. I’m not Catholic and and reject many of their doctrines but in this regard they have been rock solid faithful to scripture.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:32 PM

:) just said it, anti gay bigotry, in your interpretation, is god given.
but I must say you are coherent in your statement. I don’t disagree at all.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 12:43 PM

and then declared a crusade upon them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
nathor on February 21, 2012 at 12:38 PM

That was almost 1000 years after the excommunications you cited, and committed by a totally corrupted church. The excommunations you listed all occured before there was anything known as “THE Catholic Churh.”

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:44 PM

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 12:41 PM

One of my friends is a butch *rhymes with ‘mike’*. I’ve known her since we were kids and she served honorably as a USA officer under DADT.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

I don’t know what it means to “be Catholic” anymore.

Does it mean you were raised Catholic?

That you attend Christmas and Easter Mass?

That you attended Catholic schools growing up?

Or, like my in-laws, that you’re actively involved in the Catholic church, attend every week, take part in all the sacraments, etc?

Very confusing.

Grace_is_sufficient on February 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:36 PM

Not a lot of Catholics in those Southern cities…

Odie1941 on February 21, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Don’t mean to ignore the rest of the post… but this is the point of my post.

Where RCism has been prominent in this country, generally there has been a huge march to libertine lifestyles and to the Left. New England used to be a bastion of cultural and religious conservatism, even into the 1950s.

Even in the South, leftist thinking is more prominent in areas like New Orleans and even in Mobile than in places like Montgomery and Jackson.

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:48 PM

And note, the RCC recognizes only one church and they do not accept the concept of a “denomination.” Might want to catch up on RC doctrine.
mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Yeah, So? Had you read my post you would have seen that I said there were Catholic doctrines I disagree with so I’m not sure what your point in goig off-topic is.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:48 PM

The institution is run by men who do not marry so they inherently have a disdain for women
liberal4life on February 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

So, you are saying all bachelors hate women? Do you have anything to back that up other than your own imagination?

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:50 PM

That was almost 1000 years after the excommunications you cited, and committed by a totally corrupted church

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:44 PM

Define… in light of Leo XIII’s “Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae” and Vatican I?

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Matthews likes Americans and Catholics. He just doesn’t like patriotic Americans or faithful Catholics.

RBMN on February 21, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Nothing this worthless partisan hack said should mean anything to anyone, nothing to see here.

Stop paying attention to Chrissy and he’ll go away.

NoDonkey on February 21, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Define… in light of Leo XIII’s “Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae” and Vatican I?
mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Study the history of the inquisition and read Luther’s 99 Thesis and you will have my answer.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:52 PM

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Yeah, So? Had you read my post you would have seen that I said there were Catholic doctrines I disagree with so I’m not sure what your point in goig off-topic is.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:48 PM

You referenced other churches and denominations when your church has clearly stated that such creatures do not, and can not, exist.

So you can ignore whatever teaching you want? I thought that’s what liberal Catholics do?

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:53 PM

The Catholics are just as rock solid on the sinfullness of homosexual behavior as any Protestant denomination. It is so clear in scripture they have to be.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Catholics are also “rock solid” on the issue of abortion yet refuse to excommunicate “Catholics” like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden who have spent their entire careers seeking ways to kill off unborn life and the culture of death.

My point was simply that when it comes to practicing what they preach, Catholics have a spotty record.

Happy Nomad on February 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

Good for her! It’s only the left that can’t get their heads around loving the sinner and hating the sin. They have to go all out and not only embrace the sin but actively promote it as a lifestyle.

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:52 PM

I’m confused… are you defending the RCC or not?

Sorry if I missed your gist.

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Y’all need to lose the anti-Catholic bigotry.
Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Mormon…we’re ALL children of God.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:34 PM

lol! I was just pointing our how heretical catholics think other denominations are:
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-great-heresies

and to heretics, what to do:
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/did-the-church-change-its-position-on-the-punishment-of-heretics

Full Question
An anti-Catholic claims that the Church at the Fourth Lateran Council said heretics should be exterminated, but now the Church denies that they should be. What should we make of this?
Answer

Not much. First, the issue Lateran IV (1215) addressed was not the “extermination” of heretics in the sense of killing them. Anti-Catholics have been confused by the use of the Latin extermino in the Council’s decree and have assumed the word means the same as the English verb “exterminate.” It does not.

For example, the (non-Catholic) Cassell’s Latin Dictionary points out that extermino is derived from ex (from or out of) and terminus (boundary). In English it has come to mean pushing beyond the boundary of life, but it doesn’t have that meaning in Latin. Cassell’s defines extermino as “to drive beyond the boundaries; hence lit[eral meaning], to drive out, expel, banish . . . transf[erred meaning] to put aside, remove.” Cassell’s does not list “kill,” “exterminate,” or any equivalent as a definition.

Thus the relevant passage of Lateran IV reads, “Catholics who take the cross and gird themselves up for the expulsion ["extermination"] of heretics shall enjoy the same indulgence and be strengthened by the same holy privilege as is granted to those who go to the aid of the holy land” (Constitution 3).

so, there you have, you are to be exterminated, which is latin for banishment or expulsion. and as a good catholic, you should prepare yourself for the “expulsion” of heretics, just like crusader (“those who go to the aid of the holy land”, )
very reassuring… yikes!

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 12:55 PM

You referenced other churches and denominations when your church has clearly stated that such creatures do not, and can not, exist.
mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:53 PM

My Church? I specifically said I wasn’t Catholic so you don’t have clue what you are talking about.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:56 PM

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Hitler used Luther’s writings as partial justification for the Holocaust.
I have friend who was raised in a far-out Lutheran denomination. This group(Lutheran Church of the Reformation) says that since Luther thought that Jews were evil…Jews are obviously evil-or he wouldn’t have written it.
She’s great-her parents and the LCR hold the same view of Jews that ELCA holds-they’re just coming at it from the right rather than the left. The LCR also considers the Pope to be the anti-Christ and Catholics to be agents of Satan.
Really.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM

I’m confused… are you defending the RCC or not?
Sorry if I missed your gist.
mankai on February 21, 2012 at 12:55 PM

I am defending them on the sole issue raised by the topic of the thread. I said that I wasn’t Catholic and disagreed with many of their doctrines.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 12:55 PM

I’ve found the Church to be very tolerant of other Christians and of Jews.
That was one of Her ‘draws’.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Hitler used Luther’s writings as partial justification for the Holocaust.
annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM

No, he used a single writing. He also used the writings of Darwin and Nitzchie so are we going to disregard the writings of all scientists and philosophers?

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:00 PM

Catholics are also “rock solid” on the issue of abortion yet refuse to excommunicate “Catholics” like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden who have spent their entire careers seeking ways to kill off unborn life and the culture of death.

Happy Nomad on February 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM

My usual rejoinder on this issue. The Catholic Church does not need to excommunicate heretics like Pelosi, Biden, et al. By their support and promotion of abortion and refusal to admit that abortion is immoral in all circumstances, they have incurred excommunication latae sententiae. They are excommunicated Catholics and no further action is required by the Church.

Would I love to see a bishop or priest very publicly deny them the Eucharist? Oh hell yeah, but them taking communion at Mass is a meaningless exercise so it doesn’t really matter.

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 1:00 PM

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM

We don’t discuss politics…and that’s fine.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM

Jews are God’s Chosen People.

I’m sure that he has it under control. He doesn’t need my help.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Yes, they are. And as a Protestant I pray for the peace of Jerusalem daily.

As for Spittles Matthews, Hispanics currently make up almost 50% of the Catholic Church in the United States. So Chrissy just called a large Obama voting bloc “conservative bigots”.

Keep talking Chris. LOL

Flora Duh on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Study the history of the inquisition and read Luther’s 99 Thesis and you will have my answer.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Luther wrote only 95 Theses.

timberline on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Y’all need to lose the anti-Catholic bigotry.
Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Mormon…we’re ALL children of God.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:34 PM

Pope Eugene IV, (1388-1447) – Papal bull, 1441, Cantate Domino.

“It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ , unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

But what does he know?

Praying with heretics for “unity” is heresy.
-Pius IX

Since it is completely senseless and inappropriate to be in a situation where Christian piety allows the Jews (whose guilt – all of their own doing – has condemned them to eternal slavery) access to our society and even to live among us… Desiring firstly, as much as we can with [the help of] God, to beneficially provide, by this [our decree] that will forever be in force, we ordain that for the rest of time, in the City as well as in other states, territories and domains of the Church of Rome itself, all Jews are to live in only one [quarter] to which there is only one entrance and from which there is but one exit, and if there is not that capacity [in one such quarter, then], in two or three or however many may be enough; [in any case] they should reside entirely side by side in designated streets and be thoroughly separate from the residences of Christians, [This is to be enforced] by our authority in the City and by that of our representatives in other states, lands and domains noted above… [etc.] – Paul IV

I’ll stop… hate to eat up too much bandwidth.

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Almost all Christian denominations oppose same-sex marriage, and Catholics aren’t the most vocal on that point, at least not uniformly.

Episcopalians, Evangelical Lutherans, Presbyterians…?

Buy Danish on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:00 PM

I was a member of Missouri Synod at one point. The associate pastor of my church and I would meet to have a spiritual discussion and then finish with a chat about weapons. He was a life-time member of the NRA.
I was going after Mankai and Nathor.
Period.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Hitler used Luther’s writings as partial justification for the Holocaust.
I have friend who was raised in a far-out Lutheran denomination. This group(Lutheran Church of the Reformation) says that since Luther thought that Jews were evil…Jews are obviously evil-or he wouldn’t have written it.
She’s great-her parents and the LCR hold the same view of Jews that ELCA holds-they’re just coming at it from the right rather than the left. The LCR also considers the Pope to be the anti-Christ and Catholics to be agents of Satan.
Really.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM

I like you, alt, but really? Charles Manson used Beatles recordings to justify his insanity and it doesn’t mean they are evil.
Most Lutherans are not anti-Semitic or think that the Pope is the anti-Christ. The ELCA has been unfortunately infested with liberal sects, but for the most part it’s on the level depending on the synod the church is associated with. I respect Catholics and believe as in any denomination there are Christians in the bunch and others who aren’t. Know them by their fruits and all.

BakerAllie on February 21, 2012 at 1:04 PM

BakerAllie on February 21, 2012 at 1:04 PM

I’m a former member of LCMS. I was going. after. Nathor. and. Mankai.
PERIOD.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 1:06 PM

Episcopalians, Evangelical Lutherans, Presbyterians…?
Buy Danish on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Only certain, dying, groups of those denominations support Gay Marriage and it certainly wouldn’t include “evangelical” Lutherans. The ELCA is far from evangelical.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:06 PM

BakerAllie on February 21, 2012 at 1:04 PM

I’m a former member of LCMS. I was going. after. Nathor. and. Mankai.
PERIOD.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 1:06 PM

I was pointing out that EVERY faith has some dark spots.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 1:07 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Guess where Luther learned his Antisemitism?

Paul IV made Jews wear yellow markings, forced them to live in ghettos, refused to allow them to be doctors and refused to allow Catholics to even eat with them… and he declared those “truths” to be “forever”.

Now, Luther is no more binding on me than anyone… however, the Popes are very binding on Catholics whenever they speak on any matter of faith and morals.

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 1:07 PM

I’d like to add a new “mused” to the lexicon: “Pe Pomused.” PePomused means “I’ve thought about this and it really pissed me off.”

MaxMBJ on February 21, 2012 at 12:41 PM

affenhauer on February 21, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Okay y’all, since I’m giving up pastries for Lent I’m gonna go nosh my way around the neighborhood.
Later.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 1:08 PM

That was almost 1000 years after the excommunications you cited, and committed by a totally corrupted church. The excommunations you listed all occured before there was anything known as “THE Catholic Churh.”

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 12:44 PM

ah, so that “totally corrupted church” was the great arbiter of, for example, the bible version you have today and the great decider of what religious text would be cannon or not.
can you explain me how they managed to be totally corrupt and somehow produce an uncorrupted bible?
and forgery was common in the church

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:09 PM

I was a member of Missouri Synod at one point. The associate pastor of my church and I would meet to have a spiritual discussion and then finish with a chat about weapons. He was a life-time member of the NRA.
I was going after Mankai and Nathor.
Period.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Posted the previous before you wrote this.
I can’t circle the square on some Catholic teachings(Mary’s perpetual virginity, for one), but anyone saying that mainstream Protestantism has gone off the rails is just telling the world what a lot of us know and have been fighting against within our own camp for years. I visited a Church once a few years ago and mentioned the Nicene Creed and got a blank look from the pastor. Needless to say we never went back.

BakerAllie on February 21, 2012 at 1:10 PM

As a Catholic, I’m a little bemused by this argument. Almost all Christian denominations oppose same-sex marriage,

A decade ago, this would have been true. Now five out of the seven so called “Sisters of Mainline Protestantism” either formally or informally support civil recognition of homosexuality.

These include:

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Episcopal Church USA
Presbyterian Church (USA)
United Church of Christ
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

The holdouts are:

United Methodist Church, which is quite liberal in the United States but has an episcopal polity and its very large, very conservative African contingent prevents the national body from passing pro-gay measures.

American Baptist Churches in the USA which is almost less of a denomination and more of an association of churches. They have both conservative and liberal congregations that have very different positions on the issue.

A better way of phrasing it would be “Almost all evangelical or fundamentalist churches oppose…..” Within the old mainline churches, unified support for gay rights is more prevalent than opposition to it.

LukeinNE on February 21, 2012 at 1:11 PM

I was pointing out that EVERY faith has some dark spots.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 1:07 PM

Just not infallible ones.

This is why I teach a theology of one. There are 7 billion theologies in the world. You will answer for yours alone. No one, or no institution, will be your substitute.

(Emily)”Some people never bother to inquire in the first place and settle on the convictions of others, but you can’t go through life with someone else’s convictions.”

(Carla)”I suppose you could, but it would only mean that whatever convictions you profess are not convictions at all. They are merely the thoughts of a parrot.”

-Devon Dibley and His Golden Key

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 1:11 PM

I like how Tingles pretends he’s never heard of MRC. As if the MRC hasn’t been dogging his far-Left bigotted as$ for years and generally making him and his leg look like complete fools.

WarEagle01 on February 21, 2012 at 1:11 PM

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:09 PM

Yeah, if you guys could stop quoting us 15th century popes and 4th century excommunications and join us here in the 21st century, perhaps we can have a conversation about Pope Benedict XVI and his role in expanding ecumenism in the Christian world.

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 1:13 PM

Dang, quotes hate me!

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:09 PM

Yeah, if you guys could stop quoting us 15th century popes and 4th century excommunications and join us here in the 21st century, perhaps we can have a conversation about Pope Benedict XVI and his role in expanding ecumenism in the Christian world.

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 1:14 PM

I’ve found the Church to be very tolerant of other Christians and of Jews.
That was one of Her ‘draws’.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2012 at 12:59 PM

the catholic church does evolve with time, although very slowly. give it time, and gays will be welcomed as well.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:15 PM

ah, so that “totally corrupted church” was the great arbiter of, for example, the bible version you have today and the great decider of what religious text would be cannon or not.
can you explain me how they managed to be totally corrupt and somehow produce an uncorrupted bible?
and forgery was common in the church

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:09 PM

The Catholic Church had NOTHING to do with the translation I use or the cannon I acknowledge. The translation and cannon I subscribe to are rejected by the Catholic Church. The bible established the Church not the other way around.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:16 PM

A better way of phrasing it would be “Almost all evangelical or fundamentalist churches oppose…..” Within the old mainline churches, unified support for gay rights is more prevalent than opposition to it.

LukeinNE on February 21, 2012 at 1:11 PM

Absolutely and sadly correct. Discernment is a must these days.
I think the pastor as CEO model and the influx of the megachurch has contributed to this. Keeping people happy brings in more money than Biblical truth that might make someone feel uncomfortable.

BakerAllie on February 21, 2012 at 1:16 PM

can you explain me how they managed to be totally corrupt and somehow produce an uncorrupted bible?
and forgery was common in the church

No forgery was not common and the cannon of the Bible I use was written hundreds of years before “The Roman Catholic Church” existed.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Hispanics currently make up almost 50% of the Catholic Church in the United States. So Chrissy just called a large Obama voting bloc “conservative bigots”.

Keep talking Chris. LOL

Flora Duh on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Well, if 32% is “almost 50%” then I guess your statement is accurate.

sob0728 on February 21, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Yeah, if you guys could stop quoting us 15th century popes and 4th century excommunications and join us here in the 21st century, perhaps we can have a conversation about Pope Benedict XVI and his role in expanding ecumenism in the Christian world.

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 1:14 PM

lol! translation: please stop, this stuff in indefeasible so please just try to ignore it. please, pleaaaaaseeeee ! lol

I will be merciful, but, in this resides one of the church great weaknesses, how can we actually take them serious in their modern theological interpretations, when they were wrong some many times in the past.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Here is the Audio/Transcript!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes,I know,its a ProgTard Site!

Santorum: Satan is Systematically Destroying America
Thu, 02/16/2012 – 4:12pm
****************************

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/santorum-satan-systematically-destroying-america

canopfor on February 21, 2012 at 12:31 PM

I read that transcript a little while ago. As usual, the media is blowing it out of proportion.

1. Contrary to what some headlines are inferring, and some people here have repeated, the comments are not recent. They were made in 2008.

2. Again, contrary to what’s being inferred, the comments were not off the cuff in an interview, they were part of a speech he gave at a Catholic University.

3. Other than the mention of politics, he didn’t say anything that I haven’t heard coming from the pulpits of Baptist churches.

Flora Duh on February 21, 2012 at 1:20 PM

I’m hoping God has a special place in purgatory for Catholic’s like Matthews. Perhaps it could be filled with the souls of conservative’s whom he has slandered. He’d have to apologize to each before ever seeing the gates of Heaven.

Carnac on February 21, 2012 at 1:21 PM

Tingles is the kind of cafeteria Catholic like the Kennedys, Pelosis, Bidens, picking, choosing, and cooking up their own twisted versions of catholicism to suit their purposes. They will fail since the Church has survived just fine these past 2000 years – with all its ups and downs, and without the influence of these putzes.

mozalf on February 21, 2012 at 1:22 PM

how can we actually take them serious in their modern theological interpretations, when they were wrong some many times in the past.
nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Scientists have been wrong many, many times in the past so does that mean we can’t take science seriously?

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:24 PM

No forgery was not common and the cannon of the Bible I use was written hundreds of years before “The Roman Catholic Church” existed.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:17 PM

ah, so when the church was just the church made of citizens of the roman empire, it was much less currupt. it was just when they allied to imperial power in the 4th century and made the “The Roman Catholic Church”, that they suddenly became “totally currupt”.
no worries then, no need to be skeptical, keep reading that true bible then. be happy/

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:25 PM

Would Matthews dare to make these charges against Muslims?

Quite frankly, I think that Matthews’s bishop should give him a pink slip for his scandalous behavior/remarks in the media and for misrepresenting the positions of his avowed church and its followers.

onlineanalyst on February 21, 2012 at 1:26 PM

I’m hoping God has a special place in purgatory for Catholic’s like Matthews. Perhaps it could be filled with the souls of conservative’s whom he has slandered. He’d have to apologize to each before ever seeing the gates of Heaven.

Carnac on February 21, 2012 at 1:21 PM

I’m hoping there is a special level in hell for the likes of “journalists such as Matthews, Maddow, and all the rest of these propagandists and liars.

Happy Nomad on February 21, 2012 at 1:27 PM

ah, so when the church was just the church made of citizens of the roman empire, it was much less currupt. it was just when they allied to imperial power in the 4th century and made the “The Roman Catholic Church”, that they suddenly became “totally currupt”.

The bible warns us that Satan would infiltrate the Church and try to corrupt it. So that’s all to be expected and helps prove the authority of scripture over men.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:28 PM

the catholic church does evolve with time, although very slowly. give it time, and gays will be welcomed as well.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:15 PM

I will be merciful

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Silly troll. The Catholic Church does welcome gays into its midst just as it welcomes everyone who follows its beliefs and teachings. It simply says that homosexual acts are sins.

Thanks, fortunately I don’t rely on you for mercy!

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 1:30 PM

A better way of phrasing it would be “Almost all evangelical or fundamentalist churches oppose…..” Within the old mainline churches, unified support for gay rights is more prevalent than opposition to it.

LukeinNE on February 21, 2012 at 1:11 PM

I disagree, at least as far as the PC(USA) is concerned. I think there is a push toward legitimizing the gay lifestyle among certain groups of church leaders but not necessarily among those who belong to the church. The other thing is that this push has driven many congregations to other denominations such as the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. In other words, what you’ve got left may be more unified support of legitimizing sodomy but that is only because the dissenters got tired of having special interests pushing this issue year after year to slowly erode Biblical principle with social activism.

Happy Nomad on February 21, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Since it is completely senseless and inappropriate to be in a situation where Christian piety allows the Jews (whose guilt – all of their own doing – has condemned them to eternal slavery) access to our society and even to live among us… Desiring firstly, as much as we can with [the help of] God, to beneficially provide, by this [our decree] that will forever be in force, we ordain that for the rest of time, in the City as well as in other states, territories and domains of the Church of Rome itself, all Jews are to live in only one [quarter] to which there is only one entrance and from which there is but one exit, and if there is not that capacity [in one such quarter, then], in two or three or however many may be enough; [in any case] they should reside entirely side by side in designated streets and be thoroughly separate from the residences of Christians, [This is to be enforced] by our authority in the City and by that of our representatives in other states, lands and domains noted above… [etc.] – Paul IV

I’ll stop… hate to eat up too much bandwidth.

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

And that has stood solid since the late 1550s. Nothing has been issued by another pope to change it?
You’re already eating up too much bandwidth with lies by selective ommission.
Which pretty much just makes you another anti-Catholic liar — and dishonest.

Solaratov on February 21, 2012 at 1:34 PM

I visited a Church once a few years ago and mentioned the Nicene Creed and got a blank look from the pastor. Needless to say we never went back.

BakerAllie on February 21, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Stupid question but was it a creedal denomination? Not all are but you’d think that even the greenest of pastors would be familiar with the Nicene Creed.

Happy Nomad on February 21, 2012 at 1:36 PM

Scientists have been wrong many, many times in the past so does that mean we can’t take science seriously?

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:24 PM

and will be wrong many more times in the future. however, I would still trust scientific medicine way more than faith healing.

but what you are saying is that god words were indeed interpreted wrong in the past and with deadly serious consequences. interesting admition for someone still trying to gather guidance from gods words today.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:36 PM

I don’t know what it means to “be Catholic” anymore.

Does it mean you were raised Catholic?

That you attend Christmas and Easter Mass?

That you attended Catholic schools growing up?

Or, like my in-laws, that you’re actively involved in the Catholic church, attend every week, take part in all the sacraments, etc?

Very confusing.

Grace_is_sufficient on February 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

Catholicism is whatever a person who identifies as Catholic Church thinks is Catholicism. I reject medieval notions that empower the Pope as a religious monarch. While I am a Jew, there are two reasons for me to speak up on this subject. First, democracy works best when people follow their conscience and their views aren’t held captive to a religious power. Secondly, the medieval Catholic Church was anti-Semitic and I want it replace with something better. Luckily, most Catholics I know agree with me at the gut level.

thuja on February 21, 2012 at 1:36 PM

Well, if 32% is “almost 50%” then I guess your statement is accurate.

sob0728 on February 21, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Actually I based that percentage from a 2006 article called “Hispanics in the U.S Catholic Church” that said: “Hispanics currently make up 40% of the Catholic Church”.

Since the article as written 6 yrs ago, I used the word “almost” because I’m sure the percentage has grown since then.

So sue me.

Flora Duh on February 21, 2012 at 1:39 PM

As a Catholic, I’m a little bemused by this argument.

It’s really simple, Ed. If you oppose any of 0′s policies, you are racist. See how simple that is?

iurockhead on February 21, 2012 at 1:40 PM

and will be wrong many more times in the future. however, I would still trust scientific medicine way more than faith healing.

Since each comes from God I would utilyze both.

but what you are saying is that god words were indeed interpreted wrong in the past and with deadly serious consequences. interesting admition for someone still trying to gather guidance from gods words today.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:36 PM

That just tells me to beware of men manipulating and bastardizing scripture for their own non-Christian ends. A lesson the NT repeats over and over.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:41 PM

I’m Catholic Mr matthews

GTH, plz (the real one)

Go
To
the Hot place, ya know, in Catholic scriptures :)

What an a$$hat
Jean

Gauthijm on February 21, 2012 at 1:41 PM

ah, so when the church was just the church made of citizens of the roman empire, it was much less currupt. it was just when they allied to imperial power in the 4th century and made the “The Roman Catholic Church”, that they suddenly became “totally currupt”.

The bible warns us that Satan would infiltrate the Church and try to corrupt it. So that’s all to be expected and helps prove the authority of scripture over men.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:28 PM

or it was just a nice little passage inserted in the bible by corrupt christian romans trying to fight off another rival corrupt roman Christian faction.
… or maybe it was indeed god warning us of the devil… why doubt, romans were such a nice people/

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:42 PM

Guess where Luther learned his Antisemitism?

Paul IV ………….

mankai on February 21, 2012 at 1:07 PM

And yet, Luther’s antisemitism didn’t manifest itself until his much later years.
Perhaps he went back and read some old Paul IV and drcidrd that the pope was right after all.

(Is it hard for you to drive with your head that far up your bum?)

Solaratov on February 21, 2012 at 1:43 PM

There was an audience. To hear Chris Matthews. That’s just sad.

Ted Torgerson on February 21, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Stupid question but was it a creedal denomination? Not all are but you’d think that even the greenest of pastors would be familiar with the Nicene Creed.

Happy Nomad on February 21, 2012 at 1:36 PM

I believe it was an EFCA church. Is that a Baptist offshoot? I’m not sure, but it did have Baptist “flavor”. This was a few years ago. We were looking for a church when we moved and a friend of ours went there so we checked it out. I did not expect much, but yeah, you’d think there would be a pretty basic familiarity if nothing else. It could have just been the pastor.

BakerAllie on February 21, 2012 at 1:47 PM

or it was just a nice little passage inserted in the bible by corrupt christian romans trying to fight off another rival corrupt roman Christian faction.
nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:42 PM</blockquote

You are showing your ignorance of scripture. AFter the Gospel itself the most repreated message of the NT is to beware of false doctrine. The message is present in every book but Phileman and is the stated message of the ENTIRE books of Galations, 1st John, Jude and the entire second chapter of 2 Peter. No, it was dead on prophecy by the Holy Spirit.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:48 PM

That just tells me to beware of men manipulating and bastardizing scripture for their own non-Christian ends. A lesson the NT repeats over and over.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:41 PM

ahh, but your interpretation, will be the correct one nonetheless. and I guess if someone does not agree with you, they are perhaps interpreted for their own non-Christian ends? is this it?

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:48 PM

You are showing your ignorance of scripture. AFter the Gospel itself the most repreated message of the NT is to beware of false doctrine. The message is present in every book but Phileman and is the stated message of the ENTIRE books of Galations, 1st John, Jude and the entire second chapter of 2 Peter. No, it was dead on prophecy by the Holy Spirit.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:48 PM

Yep. Wolves.

Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”

Matthew 10:16
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.”

Matthew 24:24
“For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.”

Luke 10:3
“Go your way; behold, I am sending you out as lambs in the midst of wolves.”

Acts 20:29
“I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;”

BakerAllie on February 21, 2012 at 1:52 PM

Mankai – it’s great to be your own Pope isn’t it? I prefer the one that Christ established, thank you very much – now shut your offensive trap. Learn something. Ever hear of hospitals, universities or even the whole concepts of freedom and equality? Where did these concepts come from? They unfortunately have been corrupted by the small thinking egoists that are encouraging the demise of wisdom, courage and all other virtues – ie The Humanists – and believe it or not, they are also in the Church and have been since the 60′s. The Church is being led back to the Truth by a man of god – not by a god of man.

Fuquay Steve on February 21, 2012 at 1:53 PM

Matthews: Catholic Church a haven for conservative bigots, or something

By the standards with which RINOs and conservatives attack Ron Paul and his supporters maybe Chris Mathews has a point about Santorum and bigotry. I’ve also heard that Santorum might be associated with the extremist group call Opus Dei.

CurpliTium on February 21, 2012 at 1:54 PM

ahh, but your interpretation, will be the correct one nonetheless. and I guess if someone does not agree with you, they are perhaps interpreted for their own non-Christian ends? is this it?
nathor on February 21, 2012 at 1:48 PM

The essential elements of the Gospel and soteriology need no interpretation – they are stated quite plainly and all one needs to do is follow the clear, literal meaning of the words presented. That people disagree on some finer points is to be expected and Paul said they would. When we need it the exact meaning of everything it will be totally clearly in its time, just as it was in the OT.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:55 PM

Catholicism is whatever a person who identifies as Catholic Church thinks is Catholicism.

Oh nonsense. This is exactly wrong. You are a Jew. In Judiasm there is almost no doctrine that is universal. Judiasm, it may be said, is whatever a rabbi says is Judiasm, with some guidance from reform or orthodox writings. Catholicism is completely the opposite on this score, a set of dogma that are held out to be universal, you know “catholic.” Individual adherents to Catholicism, even priests, cannot alter doctrine. Liturgy is also the same, word for word, in Manila, Dublin, Mexico City and Hanoi.

I reject medieval notions that empower the Pope as a religious monarch.

Good for you. What does that have to do with what Chris Matthews said about bigots joining the Catholic Church?

While I am a Jew, there are two reasons for me to speak up on this subject. First, democracy works best when people follow their conscience and their views aren’t held captive to a religious power.

I’m glad you escaped. Who was holding you captive? can you possibly be serious that there is some constraint against railing about the Pope?

Secondly, the medieval Catholic Church was anti-Semitic and I want it replace with something better. Luckily, most Catholics I know agree with me at the gut level.

thuja on February 21, 2012 at 1:36 PM

The Middle Ages ended about 1350 AD, so I can’t see how that would still be relevant.

Ted Torgerson on February 21, 2012 at 1:56 PM

O/T,as per Drudge/SANTORUM’S SATAN WARNING
============================================

Here is the Audio/Transcript!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes,I know,its a ProgTard Site!

Santorum: Satan is Systematically Destroying America
Thu, 02/16/2012 – 4:12pm
****************************

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/santorum-satan-systematically-destroying-america

canopfor on February 21, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Must be true. Didn’t I read in the last couple of days something about Satan messing with Jesse Jackson Jr.’s re-election?

silvernana on February 21, 2012 at 1:57 PM

The bible warns us that Satan would infiltrate the Church and try to corrupt it. So that’s all to be expected and helps prove the authority of scripture over men.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:28 PM

The second secret of Our Lady of Fátima as presented in 1917:
“….. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. …..”

There is hope:
“….. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”

We have been told that to defeat the spread of Marxist Socialism and its underlying persecution of the Church, we must pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary: “God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart”.

Carnac on February 21, 2012 at 1:59 PM

You are showing your ignorance of scripture. AFter the Gospel itself the most repreated message of the NT is to beware of false doctrine. The message is present in every book but Phileman and is the stated message of the ENTIRE books of Galations, 1st John, Jude and the entire second chapter of 2 Peter. No, it was dead on prophecy by the Holy Spirit.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:48 PM

wow, lots of false doctrines there to be afraid of. God sure was afraid of the devil currupting his message.
but God did good work, because the Ebionites,
Cerdonians,Marcionism,Basilidians,Thomasines, Valentianism ,Mandaeanism, Ophites, Carpocratians, nestorians, arians etc etc etc. have all fallen has the false doctrines that they were. thank you God, for making sure that the faithfull would not fall for a rival faction, not fall for the devil. good that was , “after the gospel, the most repreated message of the NT”. God is a smart one! /

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:01 PM

First, democracy works best when people follow their conscience and their views aren’t held captive to a religious power.
thuja on February 21, 2012 at 1:36 PM

Really? Virtually every repressive thug and dictator in history believe he was doing the right thing by his conscience. Soloman was correct when he warned against the folly of “everyone doing what was right in their own eyes.” and Jeremiah warned that the “human heart is decietful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it”

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:02 PM

:) just said it, anti gay bigotry, in your interpretation, is god given.

Here’s a clue: It’s not called bigotry when you’re God. He can be for or against anything He wants to, and personally, I’d sure as he** rather be on His side than yours.

Dirty Creature on February 21, 2012 at 2:03 PM

The second secret of Our Lady of Fátima as presented in 1917:
“….. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. …..”

There is hope:
“….. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”

We have been told that to defeat the spread of Marxist Socialism and its underlying persecution of the Church, we must pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary: “God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart”.

Carnac on February 21, 2012 at 1:59 PM

ah! that amazing prophecy was released in 26 June 2000. lol! the church can always count on the gullible to swell its ranks, that for sure.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:04 PM

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:01 PM

I don’t get your point. Because of the warnings in scripture none of those heretical sects exist anymore but biblical Christianity is still going strong.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:05 PM

” just said it, anti gay bigotry, in your interpretation, is god given.”

IF you are talking about bigotry against a behavior I agree 100%. Jesus said he “hated” sinful behavior and commended those who believed likewise.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:08 PM

The essential elements of the Gospel and soteriology need no interpretation – they are stated quite plainly and all one needs to do is follow the clear, literal meaning of the words presented. That people disagree on some finer points is to be expected and Paul said they would. When we need it the exact meaning of everything it will be totally clearly in its time, just as it was in the OT.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 1:55 PM

finer points like, say, contraception, abortion, gay marriage, or are those very clear in the bible?

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:08 PM

ah! that amazing prophecy was released in 26 June 2000. lol! the church can always count on the gullible to swell its ranks, that for sure.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Silly troll. The 1st and 2nd Secrets of Our Lady of Fatima were presented in 1941. If you’re going to try to take on Catholicism, at least know what it says.

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 2:12 PM

ah! that amazing prophecy was released in 26 June 2000. lol! the church can always count on the gullible to swell its ranks, that for sure.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:04 PM

That would be the third secret that you speak of. I mentioned the second secret. I am quite confident that I was made aware of the second secret decades before the year 2000.

Thus making you one of “the gullible ignorant”.

Carnac on February 21, 2012 at 2:12 PM

finer points like, say, contraception, abortion, gay marriage, or are those very clear in the bible?
nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Gay marriage is specifically excluded. The text of the Bible precepts make clear that abortion is a sin. (just as rape, which isn’t mentioned in the NT would be a sin based on other analogus precepts.) I see little to support the prohibition against contraception.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Silly troll. The 1st and 2nd Secrets of Our Lady of Fatima were presented in 1941. If you’re going to try to take on Catholicism, at least know what it says.
Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 2:12 PM

The Wiki page he/she relied on must have left that out.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:16 PM

I don’t get your point. Because of the warnings in scripture none of those heretical sects exist anymore but biblical Christianity is still going strong.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:05 PM

they dont exist anymore because 4th century christianity had the power to wipe them out, using the same passages that you referred to as justification. however, they were very much alive in the time where the cannon was was still being gathered. for what i know, by the time of athanasious in 367, they were still making lists of what should be cannon or not.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:19 PM

It is not the Catholic Church that Mathews and his ilk are attacking. They and the brainwashed lemmings that make up the majority of liberal elitest fools attack all those who even hint to disagree with them as being racist and/or bigots. Look up the definition of a BIGOT. You will find that bigots and liberals are synonymous in the definition of their mental intellect.

volsense on February 21, 2012 at 2:20 PM

Silly troll. The 1st and 2nd Secrets of Our Lady of Fatima were presented in 1941. If you’re going to try to take on Catholicism, at least know what it says.

Trafalgar on February 21, 2012 at 2:12 PM

you right, sorry,
i make the pope words my own then:

Along with the text of the secret, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, (now Pope Benedict XVI), published a theological commentary,[8][12] in which he states that:

A careful reading of the text of the so-called third ‘secret’ of Fatima … will probably prove disappointing or surprising after all the speculation it has stirred. No great mystery is revealed; nor is the future unveiled.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:23 PM

Please identify one single 4th century heretical movement that was “wiped out”? They were merely excommunicated and banished from the Church. Had there been truth to their doctrines they would have flourished and the doctrine we follow now would have disappeared. But they were false and people recognized it and they died out from their own lack of truth. The vast majority the early heretical doctrines were gnostic spin offs of neo-platonic idealism and eventually recognized as such. They could not stand.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:24 PM

Luther wrote 95 Theses, not 99.

timberline on February 21, 2012 at 2:24 PM

Gay marriage is specifically excluded. The text of the Bible precepts make clear that abortion is a sin. (just as rape, which isn’t mentioned in the NT would be a sin based on other analogus precepts.) I see little to support the prohibition against contraception.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Genesis 38 8:10
8 Juda therefore said to Onan his son : Go in to thy brother’s wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother.
9 He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother’s wife, spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother’s name.
10 And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing.

timberline on February 21, 2012 at 2:28 PM

Luther wrote 95 Theses, not 99.
timberline on February 21, 2012 at 2:24 PM

Correct. That was a typo that I recognized simultaneously with clicking the submit button. I hate when that happens.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:28 PM

Gay marriage is specifically excluded. The text of the Bible precepts make clear that abortion is a sin. (just as rape, which isn’t mentioned in the NT would be a sin based on other analogus precepts.) I see little to support the prohibition against contraception.

tommyboy on February 21, 2012 at 2:14 PM

ah, so its not the “all one needs to do is follow the clear, literal meaning of the words presented.” sometimes is “analogus precepts”.
ok, got it. all very clear.
glad that that “tottaly currupt” church passed this totally clear bible for future uncorrupted generations to truthfully follow gods words.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 2:28 PM

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