The Left’s outrageous outrage at a proposal to require ultrasounds before abortion

posted at 9:00 pm on February 19, 2012 by Tina Korbe

The Slate piece that prompted this controversy is a few days old, but the conservative backlash to it is just picking up steam. Thursday, Supreme Court reporter Dahlia Lithwick (whose name I’ve always envied!) penned a preposterous attack on a proposed law in Virginia that would require women to have an ultrasound before they would be allowed to have an abortion. Ms. Lithwick is convinced – convinced – that an ultrasound amounts to rape. She writes:

Because the great majority of abortions occur during the first 12 weeks, that means most women will be forced to have a transvaginal procedure, in which a probe is inserted into the vagina, and then moved around until an ultrasound image is produced. Since a proposed amendment to the bill—a provision that would have had the patient consent to this bodily intrusion or allowed the physician to opt not to do the vaginal ultrasound—failed on 64-34 vote, the law provides that women seeking an abortion in Virginia will be forcibly penetrated for no medical reason. I am not the first person to note that under any other set of facts, that would constitute rape under state law.

Let’s suppose for a second that a transvaginal ultrasound to which women have not consented is rape. Unfortunately for Ms. Lithwick, she’s still flat-out wrong about the law. Why? She vastly overstates the probability that “most women will be forced to have a transvaginal procedure.” Dana Loesch links to a piece at Red State that sets the record straight:

So does Virginia’s law require some foreign object to be “inserted into the vagina, and then moved around”? The answer is obviously no. The law doesn’t specify what kind of ultrasound must be used, rather it clearly states that the sonogram “shall be made pursuant to standard medical practice in the community.” This, obviously, is going to be a function of whatever device Dr. Mengele has at his disposal in the abortion facility.

Abdominal and transvaginal ultrasounds are both effective at early stages of pregnancy. This fact is acknowledged in this “continuing medical education” module produced by the National Abortion Foundation (tag line: “A Provider’s Guide to Medical Abortion”):

“Transabdominal ultrasound cannot reliably diagnose pregnancies that are < 6 weeks’ gestation. Transvaginal ultrasound, by contrast, can detect pregnancies earlier, at approximately 4 ½ to 5 weeks’ gestation. Prompt diagnosis made possible by TVU can, therefore, result in earlier treatment.”

So, yes, transvaginal is more reliable for detecting pregnancies for a period of about seven days. Please note the Orwellian use of the word “treatment” for “killing of the baby.” How does this require a woman to have a transvaginal ultrasound? Short answer: it doesn’t.

OK, so Lithwick’s wrong about the law. Is she right about what constitutes rape? Would we say that when a women consents to it, an ultrasound is in any way sexual? I’m inclined to agree with Commentary’s Alana Goodman:

Comparing the ultrasound proposal to forcible rape is – to be kind – totally absurd. But [Slate's] not the only outlet engaging in this. Feministe is calling it the “Virginia Rape Law,” and Washington Monthly described it as the “Ritual Humiliation Bill.”

Then there’s Joy Behar, who likened it to Taliban law on “The View”: “It’s like, what are we? What is this, the Taliban now? What are we, in Afghanistan? Where are we exactly in this country?”

The comparisons aren’t just needlessly inflammatory, they also dilute the seriousness of rape.

That last sentence is the linchpin: To equate a medical procedure that carries no real risk of negative consequences — like emotional trauma or STDs — with rape, which does carry such consequences, does an enormous injustice to true rape victims. Incidentally, the Virginia law aims to ensure women have as much information as possible before they decide to undergo another medical procedure that does carry an enormous risk of negative consequences — including emotional trauma.

As Goodman writes, sound reasons to oppose the Virginia law — or, at least, to think seriously about it — certainly exist, but the argument that an ultrasound is somehow rape is just not one of them.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 6 7 8

Including killing some members of it?

Trafalgar on February 20, 2012 at 1:28 PM

the unborn early pregnancy members, or even middle pregnancy members of it, sure. monster all the way. happy?

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Yes, it is RAPE, if you don’t want it, and the entry of the object is forced upon you by the state.

~ Halli Casser-Jayne

The CJ Political Report on February 20, 2012 at 1:32 PM

OK, so what if junior, the ole chip off the block, turns out not to be as great as you thought he’d be. Let’s face it, the kid has two left feet when it comes to athletics, so he’s going nowhere there. And he’s not real bright in school, held back a couple of grades and all. He’s probably not going to graduate HS, let alone get into any college. And he’s got an overbite that’s gonna cost a fortune to fix, and he squints. The little brat still expects a roof over his head and food. That’s really eating into your resources for taking care of the other kids…you know the bright ones with the cute smiles and all those sports trophies. Might as well off the little b@st@rd right? I mean he’s dragging everyone else down.
Trafalgar on February 20, 2012 at 1:31 PM

yes! no losers in my family! put him to sleep is the best option!/

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:34 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 20, 2012 at 1:28 PM

I hate to say this, but I do a little prayer everyday that Roe happened after I was born. My brother and I grew up dirt poor until my mother remarried. People like us probably deserved to be killed for our own good in nathor’s eyes.

NotCoach on February 20, 2012 at 1:34 PM

the unborn early pregnancy members, or even middle pregnancy members of it, sure. monster all the way. happy?

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Ah, so you do admit that unborn babies are a part of the family?

Not a monster. I was think more along the lines of heartless, amoral b@st@ard. And no, I’m not happy at all

Trafalgar on February 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM

Trafalgar on February 20, 2012 at 1:31 PM

You’re a pro–life warrior.
No worries.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 20, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Ah, so you do admit that unborn babies are a part of the family?

Not a monster. I was think more along the lines of heartless, amoral b@st@ard. And no, I’m not happy at all

Trafalgar on February 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM

i just tire of countering your spin. if , as you think, all stages of pregnancies are members of families, then yeah, I would kill a member of family.
you paint these situations in the worse possible view, then for sure I will be a monster, yet, 92% of americans would do the same. nation of monsters!

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:41 PM

you paint these situations in the worse possible view, then for sure I will be a monster, yet, 92% of americans would do the same. nation of monsters!

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:41 PM

So your are ignoring the distinction I made about getting a diagnosis for Downs and not getting one? Yes, 92% of mothers who seek a diagnosis for Downs are monsters. How many do not seek a diagnosis for Downs?

When you are old and decrepit and your children are responsible for you, don’t be surprised if the morality you taught them comes back to bite you in the a$$.

NotCoach on February 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM

How many do not seek a diagnosis for Downs?
NotCoach on February 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM

how many? you have a number? how many parents, after advised to do a down screening, denied to do it?

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:57 PM

i just tire of countering your spin. if , as you think, all stages of pregnancies are members of families, then yeah, I would kill a member of family.
you paint these situations in the worse possible view, then for sure I will be a monster, yet, 92% of americans would do the same. nation of monsters!

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:41 PM

A human is a baby is a clump of cells is a zygote.

Parsing definitions doesn’t change things.
CLinton thought it did, but he was wrong.
Luckily, Congress had no guts to change anything.
Just like a lot of Americans don’t have the guts to stop this.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 1:57 PM

how many? you have a number? how many parents, after advised to do a down screening, denied to do it?

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:57 PM

Parse parse parse.
Always easy when you don’t care.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 1:59 PM

A human is a baby is a clump of cells is a zygote.

Parsing definitions doesn’t change things.
CLinton thought it did, but he was wrong.
Luckily, Congress had no guts to change anything.
Just like a lot of Americans don’t have the guts to stop this.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 1:57 PM

yeah, most americans and the rest of the world just does not agree with you.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Parse parse parse.
Always easy when you don’t care.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 1:59 PM

I do care, for the freedom to take the opposite choice of yours, for the good of my family.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:05 PM

whatever…

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:11 PM

I realize there are people like you in this world who can rationalize the murder of innocent human beings & can sleep at night bcs your rationalizations somehow make you feel ok about it to the point you are not outraged at the fact a person lost their life through no fault or choice of their own.

However, this does not make your attitudes OK.

When people gain new experiences & gain a new perspective, they often realize that their previous attitudes were wrong & adjust to the reality they have encountered.
Perhaps this will happen to you, too.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:05 PM

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:05 PM

you’re arguing with someone who is a borderline social darwinist. Why waste your time like that?

annoyinglittletwerp on February 20, 2012 at 2:10 PM

for the good of my family.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:05 PM

Well it’s nice to know you care about the good of YOUR family.
F#$% the other kids who have no one who gives a $hit about them.
No reason to fight for some other people’s kids.
If they don’t parents that care about them, f#$% them.
They don’t have value to anyone but their parents.
All others can die.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:13 PM

Why waste your time like that?

annoyinglittletwerp on February 20, 2012 at 2:10 PM

I was bored. For much of the time I was aborting a turd.
What else is there to do when you’re captive to the toilet?

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:14 PM

I realize there are people like you in this world who can rationalize the murder of innocent human beings & can sleep at night bcs your rationalizations somehow make you feel ok about it to the point you are not outraged at the fact a person lost their life through no fault or choice of their own.

its not a person…

However, this does not make your attitudes OK.

yes it does. I dont share your exaggerated sensitivity towards the unborn and I will defend as I can my living children.

When people gain new experiences & gain a new perspective, they often realize that their previous attitudes were wrong & adjust to the reality they have encountered.
Perhaps this will happen to you, too.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:05 PM

sure, maybe. we can all change. maybe you will too.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:15 PM

yeah, most americans and the rest of the world just does not agree with you.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Most of the Germans in Germany went along with the killing of the Jews.
Must be OK then.
Your rationalizations are incredible!

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:16 PM

yeah, most americans and the rest of the world just does not agree with you.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Apparently 70% of mothers in the US disagree with you. According to that site while over 90% of diagnosed Down Syndrome babies are aborted, approximately 70% of Downs babies in general are not aborted.

I know it makes you feel good to believe the vast majority of mothers are for killing their children, but it wouldn’t matter if 100% were for child murder. Your guilt would not absolved. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

NotCoach on February 20, 2012 at 2:18 PM

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:15 PM

his(her) views aren’t the problem-yours are.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 20, 2012 at 2:18 PM

my question was, would you mourn the SAME. i sure you felt sad , i did to. but the longer you have the pregnancy, the worse its going to feel if something happened.
if you actually mourn a 2 week baby exactly as a full term baby, all I can say is, I dont! and it seems weird to me. maybe I am a monster or something, but I just cannot have such level of attachment.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 12:40 PM

When a loved one dies, we mourn but life goes. I still think about the child I lost nearly 12 years later and wonder what he or she might have been like had he or she been born, just as I wonder how life would be different had my mother not died at age 48 nearly twenty years ago. Asking if I mourned the same is kind of an a$$hat way of dehumanizing the baby while it is still in the womb; it is still a baby.

Blight on February 20, 2012 at 2:18 PM

maybe you will too.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:15 PM

You may be right. I just might wake up one day & decide murdering babies is right up my alley.
I might even become an abortionist myself!

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Do the leftists who refer to ultrasound rape whine when others complain about forced vaccinations? Of course not. They scream at the thought of an ultrasound procedure, but see no problem forcing vaccinations on my children, even if I object on the basis of scientific evidence.

Colony14 on February 20, 2012 at 2:19 PM

NotCoach on February 20, 2012 at 2:18 PM

Forgot the link.

NotCoach on February 20, 2012 at 2:21 PM

yes it does. I dont share your exaggerated sensitivity towards the unborn and I will defend as I can my living children.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:15 PM

I don’t share your exaggerated sensitivity toward your own children.
Or 2year olds.
Or Chinese female babies.

But then, that’s just me.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:21 PM

Including killing some members of it?

Trafalgar on February 20, 2012 at 1:28 PM

the unborn early pregnancy members, or even middle pregnancy members of it, sure. monster all the way. happy?

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Nathor, I think you are tired of responding to silliness and just need to move on. A fetus is not a family member. It’s a potential future family member.

thuja on February 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM

dehumanizing the baby while it is still in the womb; it is still a baby.

Blight on February 20, 2012 at 2:18 PM

Cut nathor some slack.
This is how he sleeps at night.
Hugging his own babies at night & never thinking of the dead babies no one cared enough to want to hug.

Badger40 on February 20, 2012 at 2:23 PM

Two birds with one stone:

1. I aborted nathor months ago. He’s defective and should be flushed down the metaphorical Planned Parenthood toilet. It’s a simple, painless “treatment”. No regrets, here.
I know of two parents who, in their thirties, declined to test for Downs. We talked it over and realized we were incapable of killing our baby, no matter what, so why bother? I think that’s Santorum’s point. Having the test suggests a willingness to abort if the results aren’t acceptable.

2. This is confusing…D&C, GYN exam, Partial birth abortion, STD tests are all invasive…how many women’s health procedures are rape? Maybe Joy Behar take this to the ultimate authority…Whoopi Goldberg. Is it rape, or rape-rape; super-rape, rape squared? We need answers, Whoopi.

Kenz on February 20, 2012 at 2:26 PM

Kenz on February 20, 2012 at 2:26 PM

]\

You are over complicating it. Rape is rape-rape when an undesirable commits the act. An undesirable in the eyes of a leftist that is.

NotCoach on February 20, 2012 at 2:30 PM

Remind me not to get on Badger40′s bad side.

tom on February 20, 2012 at 2:38 PM

One of the most intellectually dishonest commenters on this thread is……….

Bmore on February 20, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Nathor, I think you are tired of responding to silliness and just need to move on. A fetus is not a family member. It’s a potential future family member.

thuja on February 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM

of course, and indeed I am tired.

nathor on February 20, 2012 at 2:58 PM

Geez Badger40, now you have me feeling cozy about cows and calfs. No cheezeburger for me today ;-(

Seriously though, I love your comments. You have a way of getting your point across that I enjoy!

LazyHips on February 20, 2012 at 3:37 PM

The CJ Political Report on February 20, 2012 at 1:32 PM

Your one-liner doesn’t even begin to address either of the two major points made by this article. Not that you’re even trying to counter anything logically: You don’t respect the unborn and you don’t want anyone else to be given a chance to gain this respect.

CanofSand on February 20, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Yeah, I’ll be the one to say it:

So does Virginia’s law require some foreign object to be “inserted into the vagina, and then moved around”?

If the woman really objected to strange objects being inserted into her vagina and then moved around, she wouldn’t be seeking an abortion in the first place.

Roxeanne de Luca on February 20, 2012 at 5:59 PM

Nathor, I think you are tired of responding to silliness and just need to move on. A fetus is not a family member. It’s a potential future family member.
thuja on February 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM

The fetus IS a baby, whether you say so or not.
You may as well say so.

listens2glenn on February 20, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Good deal. Looks like y’all finally got it all sorted out. Congrats! So where did we end up?

Bmore on February 20, 2012 at 6:18 PM

listens2glenn on February 20, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Did you see this?

One of the most intellectually dishonest commenters on this thread is……….

Bmore on February 20, 2012 at 2:56 PM

And the next comment is………

Bmore on February 20, 2012 at 6:21 PM

Of course liberals don’t want an ultrasound to be required. Seeing the image of their baby might cause some to realize what abortion truly is: human sacrifice to the god of convenience.

GGMac on February 20, 2012 at 7:31 PM

A fetus is not a family member. It’s a potential future family member.

thuja on February 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Unless it’s wanted and/or planned. Then we walk around calling the mother-to-be “mommy” and even pass out mother’s day cards.

But I guess that’s how powerful a woman’s choice is. It has the power to make a nonviable fetus a part of the family or just a useless parasite. The cognitive dissonance on this issue has always gotten to me. If it’s not life, then don’t charge someone with second degree murder of a fetus for killing a pregnant woman. And let’s not get all bent out of shape when scared teenage girls dump what was just recently non life into a dumpster. That’s at worst, tardy. I’m sure it’s a social con’s fault she couldn’t get an abortion sooner anyway.

Esthier on February 20, 2012 at 9:17 PM

A fetus is not a family member. It’s a potential future family member.

thuja on February 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Scott Peterson would agree with you, methinks.

unclesmrgol on February 21, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Good deal. Looks like y’all finally got it all sorted out. Congrats! So where did we end up?

Bmore on February 20, 2012 at 6:18 PM

where we started. :( you are right, these conversations are hopeless.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 6:34 AM

Unless it’s wanted and/or planned. Then we walk around calling the mother-to-be “mommy” and even pass out mother’s day cards.

But I guess that’s how powerful a woman’s choice is. It has the power to make a nonviable fetus a part of the family or just a useless parasite. The cognitive dissonance on this issue has always gotten to me. If it’s not life, then don’t charge someone with second degree murder of a fetus for killing a pregnant woman. And let’s not get all bent out of shape when scared teenage girls dump what was just recently non life into a dumpster. That’s at worst, tardy. I’m sure it’s a social con’s fault she couldn’t get an abortion sooner anyway.

Esthier on February 20, 2012 at 9:17 PM

before 3 months, me and my wife dont tell anyone because we are afraid of miscarriages. we know these things are common. we keep our expectations down and if a miscarriage happens, it will be easier to overcome.
so, yes, abortions follow the same racional. the sooner it happens, the easiest it is to overcome. i dont any cognitive dissonance here.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 6:38 AM

Of course liberals don’t want an ultrasound to be required. Seeing the image of their baby might cause some to realize what abortion truly is: human sacrifice to the god of convenience.

GGMac on February 20, 2012 at 7:31 PM

allways the same prolife trick. early pregnancies = human babies. from this distorted logic, do all kind of brutal accusations.
I really fed up with you. we dont agree with the premise, thus, also not with the accusation. yet you keep harping this stuff. at this point, if someone said this to my face, there would be good change of being punched.
obnoxious twerps, all of you!

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 6:47 AM

Why, I am glad you brought this up. Now that I think about it, all these invasive demeaning procedures directed at women alone are like rape. However in a state where we have legalized abortion we must never give up protecting those we agree must not be aborted. somewhere within 12 weeks isn’t it?

Observation on February 21, 2012 at 7:04 AM

early pregnancies = human babies = distorted logic ????
Well, early pregnancies in a human can’t exactly = feline babies. Or canine. Or…

pambi on February 21, 2012 at 8:09 AM

early pregnancies = human babies = distorted logic ????
Well, early pregnancies in a human can’t exactly = feline babies. Or canine. Or…

pambi on February 21, 2012 at 8:09 AM

1 day pregnancy
6 days
4 weeks
7 weeks

babies?

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 8:26 AM

early pregnancies = human babies = distorted logic ????
Well, early pregnancies in a human can’t exactly = feline babies. Or canine. Or…

pambi on February 21, 2012 at 8:09 AM
see the images bellow:

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/19/the-lefts-outrageous-outrage-at-a-proposal-to-require-ultrasounds-before-abortion/comment-page-6/#comment-5499575

are they babies?

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 8:41 AM

before 3 months, me and my wife dont tell anyone because we are afraid of miscarriages. we know these things are common. we keep our expectations down and if a miscarriage happens, it will be easier to overcome.
so, yes, abortions follow the same racional. the sooner it happens, the easiest it is to overcome. i dont any cognitive dissonance here.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 6:38 AM

Umm, why does anyone have to “overcome” anything if the fetus is a nothing, a clump of cells? It’s not a life or of value. therefore, what is to overcome if there is a miscarriage or an abortion?

That is cognitive dissonance. If your wife cries after a miscarriage you should berate her for crying over spilled milk. Otherwise, you are admitting that the fetus is more than a lump of cells. If you feel one ounce of pain or sadness at the loss of a fetus, then you are admitting it is a life with value. Otherwise, a losing a fetus is just like losing a penny. Of no consequence.

Pro-abortion people know that a fetus is a life. They just don’t care.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 8:45 AM

Any time a woman has a miscarriage I say to them – so what? You lost a clump of cells. It was not a baby.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 8:46 AM

If a liberal, pro-abortion woman has a miscarriage, we should send them congratulatory cards in that they got rid of that disturbing clump of cells.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 8:48 AM

If a liberal, pro-abortion woman has a miscarriage, we should send them congratulatory cards in that they got rid of that disturbing clump of cells.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Actually, I think I am on to something. We should start a web-site where people can anonymously upload info about their liberal, pro-abortion friends and family that had miscarriages so that everyone can start sending them congratulation cards.

Yay! you had another day! Nothing of import happened to you. You lost a clump of cells!

I’ve known many pro-abortion women who became very sad and depressed after miscarriages. Apparently, sometimes a clump of cells is a life. But only when they want it to be. A woman’s choice is quite powerful. It can change what they define as a “clump of cells” into a life just by wishing it so.

And they expect me to feel sad for their “loss”. I wonder what the loss is though? I thought it was a meaningless clump of cells? Why the sadness? What did you lose?

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Umm, why does anyone have to “overcome” anything if the fetus is a nothing, a clump of cells? It’s not a life or of value. therefore, what is to overcome if there is a miscarriage or an abortion?

That is cognitive dissonance. If your wife cries after a miscarriage you should berate her for crying over spilled milk. Otherwise, you are admitting that the fetus is more than a lump of cells. If you feel one ounce of pain or sadness at the loss of a fetus, then you are admitting it is a life with value. Otherwise, a losing a fetus is just like losing a penny. Of no consequence.

Pro-abortion people know that a fetus is a life. They just don’t care.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 8:45 AM

at 2 weeks, no one cried, not a tear was shed. the sadness we felt, was because we failed again at trying to be pregnant, not because of the microscopical life in that bunch of cells.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 8:58 AM

If a liberal, pro-abortion woman has a miscarriage, we should send them congratulatory cards in that they got rid of that disturbing clump of cells.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 8:48 AM

if its wanted, people will feel sad, not for the “clump of cells”, but by the failure at getting pregnant you dolt.
by the way, are you protesting the massmurders at fertelization clinics yet?

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 9:01 AM

Actually, I think I am on to something. We should start a web-site where people can anonymously upload info about their liberal, pro-abortion friends and family that had miscarriages so that everyone can start sending them congratulation cards.

Yay! you had another day! Nothing of import happened to you. You lost a clump of cells!

I’ve known many pro-abortion women who became very sad and depressed after miscarriages. Apparently, sometimes a clump of cells is a life. But only when they want it to be. A woman’s choice is quite powerful. It can change what they define as a “clump of cells” into a life just by wishing it so.

And they expect me to feel sad for their “loss”. I wonder what the loss is though? I thought it was a meaningless clump of cells? Why the sadness? What did you lose?

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 8:51 AM

if its wanted, people will feel sad, not for the “clump of cells”, but by the failure at getting pregnant you dolt. attachment to the baby comes when latter in pregnancy when it really feels a baby.
by the way, are you protesting the massmurders at fertelization clinics yet?

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 9:02 AM

if its wanted, people will feel sad, not for the “clump of cells”, but by the failure at getting pregnant you dolt. attachment to the baby comes when latter in pregnancy when it really feels a baby.
by the way, are you protesting the massmurders at fertelization clinics yet?

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Having 2 children, I know when the attachment comes. For normal people, it comes upon discovering the pregnancy. And, people are sad about a miscarriage because they think of it as a baby, because that is what it is.

You are the dolt. You know it is a life, you just don’t care. As in everything leftist, the end justifies the means. If the baby is inconvenient right now, kill it.

Women aren’t sad at miscarriages b/c they failed at getting pregnant. They got pregnant. Or do you not understand the term? The failure is carrying the baby to term. Please read a 10th grade biology book about what “pregnant” means and what a “miscarriage” is.

You want it both ways – to be able to be sad at a miscarriage and to claim a fetus is “just a clump of cells”. Well, sorry to disappoint you – you can’t have it both ways. Either a miscarriage is the end of a pregnancy, or it is a nothing and sadness should be scoffed at.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 9:07 AM

at 2 weeks, no one cried, not a tear was shed. the sadness we felt, was because we failed again at trying to be pregnant, not because of the microscopical life in that bunch of cells.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Well, you must be very proud. Normal people feel sadness at the loss of life. Liberals, as I know, care only about themselves and what is convenient to them.

By the way, I expect you are lying that nobody felt sad. I’ll bet your wife was sad at the loss but you won’t admit it b/c it harms your precious theory that a clump of cell is a nothing.

If she truly felt no sadness, give us her address so we can send cards saying “nothing important happened”, “hey congrats on flushing that clump of cells!”

You and your ideology disgust people with morality.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Having 2 children, I know when the attachment comes. For normal people, it comes upon discovering the pregnancy. And, people are sad about a miscarriage because they think of it as a baby, because that is what it is.

I dont think of it as a baby. it is not. it just isent.

You are the dolt. You know it is a life, you just don’t care. As in everything leftist, the end justifies the means. If the baby is inconvenient right now, kill it.

not the same senseless argument… you see it as baby, I dont. we will never agree on this. moving on.

Women aren’t sad at miscarriages b/c they failed at getting pregnant. They got pregnant. Or do you not understand the term? The failure is carrying the baby to term. Please read a 10th grade biology book about what “pregnant” means and what a “miscarriage” is.

whatever, we wanted to have baby, but it failed in those very early stages, you mourn the failed attempt, and because it was so early, you really dont feel much, just a little sad.

You want it both ways – to be able to be sad at a miscarriage and to claim a fetus is “just a clump of cells”. Well, sorry to disappoint you – you can’t have it both ways. Either a miscarriage is the end of a pregnancy, or it is a nothing and sadness should be scoffed at.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 9:07 AM

whatever, we did not felt much for a very early miscarriage. very little indeed. just planned to try again and forgot about it.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Well, you must be very proud. Normal people feel sadness at the loss of life. Liberals, as I know, care only about themselves and what is convenient to them.

By the way, I expect you are lying that nobody felt sad. I’ll bet your wife was sad at the loss but you won’t admit it b/c it harms your precious theory that a clump of cell is a nothing.

If she truly felt no sadness, give us her address so we can send cards saying “nothing important happened”, “hey congrats on flushing that clump of cells!”

You and your ideology disgust people with morality.

Monkeytoe on February 21, 2012 at 9:09 AM

I am not lying, we felt sad, but little. very little. what is so hard for you to understand? I am not making this up. its you exaggerated attachment that seems weird to me.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 10:30 AM

bunch of cells.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 8:58 AM

You do know that is what you are, scientifically speaking?

its you exaggerated attachment that seems weird to me.

nathor on February 21, 2012 at 10:30 AM

I think it’s weird you have an exaggerated emotional attachment to female/male fetuses, but not Down’s syndrome fetuses.

I think it’s weird you respect trillions of clumps of cells, but not a number less than that.

Keep parsing that definition of what a baby is.
You & Clinton are two of a kind.
LEt’s parse that definition of rape & sex & incest while we’re at it.

Just bcs science can give us some information doesn’t mean we have the right to play God with clumps of cells.

21 week old babies surviving outside of the womb are clumps of cells.
And yet, evidently, they can be willingly killed.

How effing bizarre is that?

You do not have to fricking weep buckets bcs of a miscarriage of 2 weeks. But let’s not dehumanize what those ‘microscopic’ (& they are NOT microscopic bcs the EGG from a woman-unfertilized, is visible to the NAKED EYE) clumps of cells really are: A HUMAN BEING.

Badger40 on February 21, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Comment pages: 1 6 7 8