CNN poll shows majority opposes HHS mandate, 50/44

posted at 8:40 am on February 17, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

CNN polled general-population adults over the weekend on the HHS mandate.  Both the sample type and the timing gave Barack Obama the advantage; general-population polls skew more liberal than polls among registered or likely voters, and the survey took place just after Obama announced his “accommodation” and the media spent all weekend reporting on his “compromise.”  Even with all of those advantages, the poll found a majority opposed to the HHS mandate, 50/44:

Half of all Americans say they oppose the Obama administration’s new policy concerning employer-provided health insurance plans and their coverage of contraceptive services for female employees including those at religiously affiliated institutions, according to a new national survey. …

According to the survey, 50% of the public disapproves of the Obama administration policy, with 44% saying they approve of the plan. The margin is right at the edge of the poll’s sampling error.

Surveys on this topic tell a mixed story because many Americans know little about the issue. Recent CBS and Fox polls indicate support for the new policy, using questions that describe the new policy in some detail. But in the CNN poll, when asked their opinion of the Obama policy with no details spelled out, support was much less and a large partisan divide emerged. A recent Pew poll also suggests Americans are closely divided, and that poll may hold the key to the differences. Nearly four in ten Americans say they have heard nothing at all about this controversy.

“The CNN poll illustrates the road ahead for the White House,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “If the administration can’t inform more Americans about the details of the policy – details that some other polls show to be popular – the public is likely to split along party lines. Many will dislike the plan simply due to the fact that this is an Obama initiative.”

Actually, when one looks at the internals of the poll, it’s pretty clear that opposition is broad but the support is partisan. The only support outside the MOE in the demographics for the mandate come from the usual suspects: Democrats (70/26), 18-34YOs (and only 50/39), liberals (70/24), moderates (49/43), the Northeast (53/41), non-white (60/32), urban (55/42), and Tea Party opposition (71/20).  These are all Democratic constituencies.  In contrast, the mandate is opposed by majorities in all other age demos, in those making $50K or more, majorities in the Midwest and South, a majority in the suburbs (52/41), a majority among those who have not attended college, a majority among Tea Party neutrals (51/43), and a narrow plurality of independents (47/44) which is within the MOE.  Plus, keep in mind that the general-population polling type usually skews responses favorably toward Democrats and liberals, so the impact of those majorities to the overall result will be outsized.

Also, it’s hardly clear that few people have heard of the controversy.  Only 6% of the respondents in this poll had no opinion on the issue.  Furthermore, the polling on contraception and the Catholic Church are widely divergent from the polling on the core question, which strongly suggests that the respondents in CNN’s poll know enough about it to understand that the question doesn’t really hinge on either.  Artificial contraception gets support from 81% in this poll, and 88% think Catholics should make up their own minds about birth control rather than accept church teachings — which is a little puzzling, because church membership is voluntary and accepting the teachings is in fact making up your own mind. Despite these overwhelming results in favor of contraception, the majority still opposes the mandate, which tells us that some other values are in play — probably religious liberty and freedom of choice, although CNN doesn’t bother to poll on the reasons for the opposition.

Charles Krauthammer hits those notes in today’s column:

First, the assault on the free exercise of religion. Only churches themselves are left alone. Beyond the churchyard gate, religious autonomy disappears. Every other religious institution must bow to the state because, by this administration’s regulatory definition, church schools, hospitals and charities are not “religious” and thus have no right to the free exercise of religion — no protection from being forced into doctrinal violations commanded by the state.

Second, the assault on free enterprise. To solve his own political problem, the president presumes to order a private company to enter into a contract for the provision of certain services — all of which must be without charge. And yet, this breathtaking arrogation of power is simply the logical extension of Washington’s takeover of the private system of medical care — a system Obama farcically pretends to be maintaining.

Under Obamacare, the state treats private insurers the way it does government-regulated monopolies and utilities. It determines everything of importance. Insurers, by definition, set premiums according to risk. Not anymore. The risk ratios (for age, gender, smoking, etc.) are decreed by Washington. This is nationalization in all but name. The insurer is turned into a middleman, subject to state control — and presidential whim.

Third, the assault on individual autonomy. Every citizen without insurance is ordered to buy it, again under penalty of law. This so-called individual mandate is now before the Supreme Court — because never before has the already hypertrophied Commerce Clause been used to compel a citizen to enter into a private contract with a private company by mere fact of his existence.

This constitutional trifecta — the state invading the autonomy of religious institutions, private companies and the individual citizen — should not surprise. It is what happens when the state takes over one-sixth of the economy.

We warned people that this would happen if ObamaCare passed — that the government would have dictatorial powers to strip us of our choices in health care and beyond.  As Krauthammer writes, this is just Presidential Decree #1.  More will come.


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CNN poll shows majority opposes HHS mandate, 50/44

But he is a good father.

Electrongod on February 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM

How can support be this high?

tom daschle concerned on February 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM

If the question defined contraceptives as including the “day-after” pill, opposition would have been even higher.

publiuspen on February 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Ed, the CNN story didn’t say that people were “unimformed.” The story said that differently worded polls, i.e. those worded with more specific language, demonstrated support for the HHS mandate. Nice attempt to side-step that.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 8:46 AM

How can support be this high?

tom daschle concerned on February 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Because the public school system has been turning out well indoctrinated little commies for 40+ years. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The greatest enemy of the US is the NEA. They have the children and they control the future. If we don’t take back the schools all is lost.

Doomsday on February 17, 2012 at 8:47 AM

The only contraception that should ever be mandated is that which costs the taxpayers nothing: “keep your LEGS together, Sister”.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:49 AM

he only contraception that should ever be mandated is that which costs the taxpayers nothing: “keep your LEGS together, Sister”.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:49 AM

You do realize women vote right? I suspect that things will not turn out well for conservatives if they continue to tell adult women that they should just “keep their legs together.” Just a suggestion.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Nearly four in ten Americans say they have heard nothing at all about this controversy.

And you can bet the farm those 4 will vote for Obama come November.

Flora Duh on February 17, 2012 at 8:52 AM

Ed, the CNN story didn’t say that people were “unimformed.” The story said that differently worded polls, i.e. those worded with more specific language, demonstrated support for the HHS mandate. Nice attempt to side-step that.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 8:46 AM

From the CNN story in the blockquotes of this very post, emphasis mine:

But in the CNN poll, when asked their opinion of the Obama policy with no details spelled out, support was much less and a large partisan divide emerged. A recent Pew poll also suggests Americans are closely divided, and that poll may hold the key to the differences. Nearly four in ten Americans say they have heard nothing at all about this controversy.

Try reading for comprehension before commenting. It works better, and you look less ignorant when you do.

Ed Morrissey on February 17, 2012 at 8:53 AM

The only contraception that should ever be mandated is that which costs the taxpayers nothing: “keep your LEGS together, Sister”.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:49 AM

can you really trust those tricky females? lets bring back chastity belts!

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 8:53 AM

We warned people that this would happen if ObamaCare passed — that the government would have dictatorial powers to strip us of our choices in health care and beyond. As Krauthammer writes, this is just Presidential Decree #1. More will come.

Just one more reason why we need a candidate who can attack ObamaCare, hard and often, without being held back by the damning fact that they were the one chiefly responsible for authoring its precursor.

Kent18 on February 17, 2012 at 8:54 AM

Is this some unhidden decline in this opposition? They tried to hide it via sampling, natch, but we can still see it……/

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 8:54 AM

And you can bet the farm those 4 will vote for Obama come November.

Flora Duh on February 17, 2012 at 8:52 AM

Let’s just hope the other 6 vote against him!

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 8:54 AM

You do realize women vote right? I suspect that things will not turn out well for conservatives if they continue to tell adult women that they should just “keep their legs together.” Just a suggestion.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 8:51 AM

I don’t care what color or sex you are, expecting someone else to pay for your habits is NOT CONSERVATIVE.

Women are not entitled to have their birth control, abortions, or abortion pills by anything other than their own money. If they want insurance that pays for that, fine, there are policies out there that offer that, but it should be on their own dime, not mine.

If they don’t agree with that, tough. Keep your hand out of my wallet, sister.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:55 AM

OT; some retired USAF female COL just said on F&Friends that she’d like to “kick rick santorum in the jimmy” over his comments regarding women in combat.

oof.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 8:56 AM

So what? How many people did not support Obamacare? 70+% !
Still reading it…to find out what’s in it!

KOOLAID2 on February 17, 2012 at 8:57 AM

can you really trust those tricky females? lets bring back chastity belts!

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 8:53 AM

One of the biggest lies that has been sold by the left, Planned Parenthood, and the feminists is that there is such a thing as safe sex.

There isn’t. Nothing will prevent pregnancy or disease 100% of the time other than abstinence.

Women get pregnant all the time on the pill.

Women get STD’s all the time using condoms.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM

I don’t know how many oppose it….That is not how the libs/progs think. They are going to make this whole election about our guys running on going back to the stone age and taking our rights away. I just read 8 posts on FB about it this morning. Huffpost is really going to town on it and they are reposting all those articles. One guy even said they could win if it wasn’t for them sticking their noses in our bedrooms. This HHS mandate seems to be planned to take the spotlight off Obama’s failures and they are trying to make it be about this and not how much the economy sucks and the debt. I hope our candidates start talking about the economy and jobs and what they are going to do to make it better. I don’t watch the news but I bet everyone has their talking points on this and how great the economy is. What a bunch of bs.

wi farmgirl on February 17, 2012 at 8:59 AM

wildcat nails it.

Folks want to presume that they can engage in sexual activities and forego any adverse consequences, be it STD’s or pregnancy.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 8:59 AM

Because the public school system has been turning out well indoctrinated little commies for 40+ years. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The greatest enemy of the US is the NEA. They have the children and they control the future. If we don’t take back the schools all is lost.

Doomsday on February 17, 2012 at 8:47 AM

You have hit the nail on the head. I seriously think it’s much to late.

wi farmgirl on February 17, 2012 at 9:00 AM

OT; some retired USAF female COL just said on F&Friends that she’d like to “kick rick santorum in the jimmy” over his comments regarding women in combat.

oof.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 8:56 AM

Ok, I’ll say it. Women have no business being IN THE MILITARY. Why? Because I don’t think there should be anyone IN the military that can’t go into combat. And you can’t have women in combat any more than you can have women in the NFL. They aren’t built for it and lack the strength.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:00 AM

Nearly four in ten Americans say they have heard nothing at all about this controversy.

That’s just sad. We’ve got a lot of work to do…

pookysgirl on February 17, 2012 at 9:01 AM

This is the reason there was and is so much opposition to Obamacare in the first place.

I keep wondering if the SCOTUS will take this contraception mandate and the assault on liberty that comes with it into account when they decide this issue. They should, IMO, because there is no severance clause, remember? The entire legislation must be upheld or thrown out in one piece.

Mord on February 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Are we ready to flush our freedoms down the toilet?

Meanwhile, over at Yahoo! they’re busy declaring Obama the winner of the next presidential election. I thought they’d at least wait until April to declare a winner?

WordsMatter on February 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Im increasingly convinced that Obama’s policies are particularly tooled to have the maximum level of malevolence involved. This is just example #432 in that string of evidence.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM

I don’t care what color or sex you are, expecting someone else to pay for your habits is NOT CONSERVATIVE American.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:55 AM

FIFY

Fallon on February 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM

wildcat nails it.

Folks want to presume that they can engage in sexual activities and forego any adverse consequences, be it STD’s or pregnancy.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 8:59 AM

Exactly. It’s a calculated risk. One based on consensual behavior (if not a crime has been committed). A risk that the individual should have to take responsibility for.

FYI: if you have AIDS and you didn’t get it from a crack mom or a blood transfusion, you ALSO fit into that category!

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:03 AM

Just one more reason why we need a candidate who can attack ObamaCare, hard and often, without being held back by the damning fact that they were the one chiefly responsible for authoring its precursor.

Kent18 on February 17, 2012 at 8:54 AM

And who has done that and gotten tremendous heat. Called stupid and was right on the money. I so wish she would run.

wi farmgirl on February 17, 2012 at 9:04 AM

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:00 AM

Also, studies have shown that men’s brains go haywire when a woman is put in a dangerous situation (like being captured). They are more likely to disregard their own safety, forget training, and rush in without considering the consequences. Putting women in dangerous situations like combat is a bad idea for the military as a whole.

pookysgirl on February 17, 2012 at 9:05 AM

since the whoredog Media is focused on the MEDIA MATTERS TALKING POINTS from Axelrod and Jarrett…..

how about someone ask OBAMA ABOUT JEREMIAH WRIGHT and the black liberation theology……..

……actually how about the WHOREDOG MEDIA ask him ANYTHING of consequence?

PappyD61 on February 17, 2012 at 9:05 AM

no wildcat, that’s not true. Women fulfill valuable roles and demonstrate talent and expertise at all levels. I know the background of why Rick S said what he said, and it is not a biased statement, its a statement of fact. If, when, a female in a squad becomes wounded, men in the unit have an instinctive tendency to tend to her, guard her, etc more so than they would with other men, who can and do fight while wounded. Its a male caring for female tendency. Who wants to see a girl get hurt? That’s all Rick was saying. It makes sense and, after serving in an infantry battalion, I can understand the sentiment. More so, can most females pull my flaming carcass out of a Stryker vehicle? ahhhh, probably not.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Forgot to add… The whole “safe sex” meme was invented by Planned Parenthood.

Why?

They want MORE BUSINESS. The more people who think there is “safe sex” the more people will be doing it indiscriminately. Which means more women knocked up on the pill or using condoms and more abortions for Planned Parenthood.

The whole notion that there can be “safe sex” is one of the biggest lies that has been sold over the last generation.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:06 AM

The majority of people are so ignorant regarding the issue of religious freedom as well as government intrusion into our lives, not to mention ignorance re. the constitution, that I am not surprised at the close results. The dems. have figured it out re. the ignorance, and the Pubs. are still scratcing their azzes wondering why the Dems. are able to get away with trashing the constitution. The fact that Obama is a Marxist and the majority don’t really see it as a problem, as long as the government takes care of them, portends a rapid decline for this country. Once we slip into a point where a majority, even a small majority, of Americans have no problem with Socialism or Marxism, we have lost our freedom and the republic. History shows the only thing that can then change the direction of a government that has usurped it’s power and is becoming tyrannical is a violet overthrow of the government. The founders did not rule out this method to save our republic. We may have reached the point of no return. Think about it. Romneycare/Obamacre and the HHS mandate is as dictatorial as a government can get. The fact that a majority of Americans accept this, is proof.

they lie on February 17, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Try reading for comprehension before commenting. It works better, and you look less ignorant when you do.

Ed Morrissey on February 17, 2012 at 8:53 AM

Nice beat-down, Captain!

St Gaudens on February 17, 2012 at 9:06 AM

If they don’t agree with that, tough. Keep your hand out of my wallet, sister.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:55 AM

Exactly. That is really what it’s about. Forcing us to pay for others. Get coverage that pays or your co-pays are minimal.

wi farmgirl on February 17, 2012 at 9:07 AM

One of the biggest lies that has been sold by the left, Planned Parenthood, and the feminists is that there is such a thing as safe sex.

There isn’t. Nothing will prevent pregnancy or disease 100% of the time other than abstinence.

No safety measure works 100% of the time. You can still die on a motorcycle if you wear a helmet, can still die in a car if you wear a seatbelt and also, yes, condoms break. The point is that condoms significanly *reduce* the risk of STD and pregancy. It is much safer sex than bare skin on skin. That is all PP has ever argued.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Note to Ann couter, when you wrote this:

The “individual mandate” is simply the legal argument for why ObamaCare is unconstitutional in a country that has accepted Social Security and Medicare as constitutional. – Coulter

…it was apparent that you were too stupid to understand this:

…never before has the already hypertrophied Commerce Clause been used to compel a citizen to enter into a private contract with a private company by mere fact of his existence. -Krauthammer

…but it does explain why you wrote this:

THREE CHEERS FOR ROMNEYCARE!

Sad times.

Knott Buyinit on February 17, 2012 at 9:07 AM

One of the biggest lies that has been sold by the left, Planned Parenthood, and the feminists is that there is such a thing as safe sex.

There isn’t. Nothing will prevent pregnancy or disease 100% of the time other than abstinence.

Women get pregnant all the time on the pill.

Women get STD’s all the time using condoms.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM

so, because of that, lets ban contraception?

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

My wife for the last couple of days…can not stop talking about the lunch the ‘government official SEIZED’ the other day, from some little kid…making the child eat chicken nuggets or something!
‘That’, was the cherry put on this threads sundae…and she has spittle forming around her mouth. Somebody may need rabies vaccine, if that mutt is in office past November!

KOOLAID2 on February 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

First, the assault on the free exercise of religion. Only churches themselves are left alone.

unless they’re mosques.

sesquipedalian on February 17, 2012 at 9:11 AM

No safety measure works 100% of the time. You can still die on a motorcycle if you wear a helmet, can still die in a car if you wear a seatbelt and also, yes, condoms break. The point is that condoms significanly *reduce* the risk of STD and pregancy. It is much safer sex than bare skin on skin. That is all PP has ever argued.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Hey, great point! You would think that libtards would also recognize that same fact with trigger locks and safeties on handguns, but ahhhhhh….no. They want to ban those and control them due to **safety** issues. I mean, no safety or trigger lock works 100% of the time, it just makes for safer handling and reduces the risk of accidental discharge, that’s all that the NRA is arguing, but do they get the same leeway? discuss.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 9:11 AM

If only 50% oppose this sort of mandate, then this country is well and truly f–ked.

SAMinVA on February 17, 2012 at 9:13 AM

The fact that Obama is a Marxist and the majority don’t really see it as a problem, as long as the government takes care of them, portends a rapid decline for this country.

they lie on February 17, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Exactly, but they see it as their “right” to get taken care of… big difference.

wi farmgirl on February 17, 2012 at 9:13 AM

No safety measure works 100% of the time. You can still die on a motorcycle if you wear a helmet, can still die in a car if you wear a seatbelt and also, yes, condoms break. The point is that condoms significanly *reduce* the risk of STD and pregancy. It is much safer sex than bare skin on skin. That is all PP has ever argued.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:07 AM

We don’t require non motorcyclists to buy helmets for motorcycle riders do we?

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:14 AM

No safety measure works 100% of the time. You can still die on a motorcycle if you wear a helmet, can still die in a car if you wear a seatbelt and also, yes, condoms break. The point is that condoms significanly *reduce* the risk of STD and pregancy. It is much safer sex than bare skin on skin. That is all PP has ever argued.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Congrats libfreeorwhatever…

so, because of that, lets ban contraception?

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

…This one is even dumber than you.

tom daschle concerned on February 17, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Interesting. So what does it say about the Republican candidates for nominee that none of them could beat Obama, according to a recent poll?

ProfessorMiao on February 17, 2012 at 9:15 AM

unless they’re mosques.

sesquipedalian on February 17, 2012 at 9:11 AM

See you Friday! And try not to point that bony butt up too far in the air. It just ain’t right…

tom daschle concerned on February 17, 2012 at 9:15 AM

I mean, no safety or trigger lock works 100% of the time, it just makes for safer handling and reduces the risk of accidental discharge, that’s all that the NRA is arguing, but do they get the same leeway? discuss.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 9:11 AM

Meh, I’m more on the libertarians side when it comes to gun control, but I think the government needs to crack down on illegal gun sales that get in the hands of gangs. I’d love to see the NRA be more visible in their anti-illegal gun sales advocacy.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:16 AM

2012 America, where abstaining from something that has an eponymous malady associated with it doesn’t insure you from that malady.

tom daschle concerned on February 17, 2012 at 9:17 AM

so, because of that, lets ban contraception?

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Who is arguing for a ban on contraception?

Doomberg on February 17, 2012 at 9:17 AM

can you really trust those tricky females? lets bring back chastity belts!

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 8:53 AM

And the bride’s scold, don’t forget the bride’s scold – for the noisy ones!

OldEnglish on February 17, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Since when was 50% a majority?

Tom_Shipley on February 17, 2012 at 9:18 AM

actually how about the WHOREDOG MEDIA ask him ANYTHING of consequence?

PappyD61 on February 17, 2012 at 9:05 AM

Because it would be racist to do so.

/

Key West Reader on February 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM

My wife for the last couple of days…can not stop talking about the lunch the ‘government official SEIZED’ the other day, from some little kid…making the child eat chicken nuggets or something!
‘That’, was the cherry put on this threads sundae…and she has spittle forming around her mouth. Somebody may need rabies vaccine, if that mutt is in office past November!

KOOLAID2 on February 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Well it may seem like a little thing, but look at all the other stuff put into place. They can arrest us now with NDDA, maybe it could be for child neglect for not hitting all the food groups right. I hope I don’t live as long as my grandparents did, don’t think I will like it. I get the spittle, it makes me spitting mad too.

wi farmgirl on February 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM

so, because of that, lets ban contraception?

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

No, silly troll. Nobody is saying ban contraception. The debate is about the government forcing everybody to pay for peoples contraception. And especially forcing religious institutions to do so against their fundamental beliefs. Do try to keep up.

And by the way, when this administration says “contraception”, they mean abortion.

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM

so, because of that, lets ban contraception?

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM
…………

Debbie, tone it down already.

Key West Reader on February 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

We don’t require non motorcyclists to buy helmets for motorcycle riders do we?

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:14 AM

No, but as a society there’s no compelling interest to do so. A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

WTF – Freedom of Religion is a constituitionally defined right. Poll results don’t matter.

A majority may believe that all Americans are subject to the draft, but Quakers and Jahovah Wittness’s will get religious exemptions regardless. End of story.

A marjorority in a jurisdiction may believe that it’s not right for people to own guns, but the constitution says that they can. End of story.

A majority may think that Larry Flint should be shut down, but the constitutions says he can stay open for business. End of story.

Deafdog on February 17, 2012 at 9:22 AM

A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

Why are libs so dedicated to population control and murder by way of abortion? Can you explain?

Key West Reader on February 17, 2012 at 9:22 AM

No, but as a society there’s no compelling interest to do so. A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

Is it now?

Since abortion was shoved down the throats of all 57 states in 1973 more than 50 million Americans have been victims of it.

Think of how much better things would be if we had 50 million more taxpayers right now? It’s ironic that the most sacred sacraiment of the left, abortion, is leading to the collapse of socialism in this country about 2 generations ahead of schedule…

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:23 AM

No, but as a society there’s no compelling interest to do so. A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

What a stupid statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/magazine/29Birth-t.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/9078672/Vladimir-Putin-vows-to-reverse-Russian-population-decline.html

The declining population of the West, particularly the Eurozone, puts the lie to this fable. Abortion is now endemic in the West and yet our populations are rapidly declining and our economies are all on the brink of bankruptcy.

Doomberg on February 17, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Dems are on the wrong side of this issue and they are whistling past the graveyard. I gave my Democratic congressman an earful earlier this week, and he was quite taken aback (he’s Catholic too). Too bad for him.

matthew8787 on February 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM

A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

Amazing how human beings have been able to exist for a quarter of a million years with out Planned Parenthood isn’t it? And of course, it was the condom shortage that led to the collapse of the Roman Empire, and Ancient Egypt would have survived if only they IUDs.

Do you even review your posts for ridiculousness before hitting the submit button?

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM

The only contraception that should ever be mandated is that which costs the taxpayers nothing: “keep your LEGS together, Sister”.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:49 AM

One of the biggest lies that has been sold by the left, Planned Parenthood, and the feminists is that there is such a thing as safe sex.

There isn’t. Nothing will prevent pregnancy or disease 100% of the time other than abstinence.

Women get pregnant all the time on the pill.

Women get STD’s all the time using condoms.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Who is arguing for a ban on contraception?

Doomberg on February 17, 2012 at 9:17 AM

reading better, no one. abstinence might be safer for sure, but also meant to fail because people will end up doing sex. and contraception will be needed at that point and should be available and cheap for the benefit of the overall sociaty.

by the way, its not PP or obamacare that its creating the american sex lust, its the commercials and culture that discovered that sex sells.

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM

I am going to keep pointing out ad nauseum, that in Massachusetts, we have a private insurance system, and even though the insurance board is full of liberals, you only had to buy a basic coverage. They monkey with what basic coverage is; They monkey with what levels of coverage should have which luxuries in them, but your employer picks out the insurance that they want. If they don’t want dental, no dental, if they want a $50 copay on everything, so be it, some people have cadillac plans, and other people do not. Unlike the water rates here, you could choose what you wanted to/could afford to spend. You say it’s more expensive here. People have Gourmet Medicine here. You don’t have the opportunities that we do. You don’t believe that we can call the doctor in the morning and go in this afternoon, but we can. It is a lie perpetuated on other conditions, you must schedule your yearly physical in advance, you need to make an appointment for a specialist. If your bone is broken that same specialist might see you in fifteen minutes.

The original plans under Romney insurance reform, brought MORE policies into the market place. In the last two years, Obama care has been ruining them, along with our complicit Governor, and our liberal legislature. The policies had things like: health savings accounts, low threash holds like a policy that would cover $26-$30K of coverage for the year. Obama Care ruins this market solution. The liberals did not like the idea of people not having the same coverage, that is the lesson they are taking from MA, they don’t want free markets like we did here. They don’t want lower income people to pay something for their insurance. They want YOU to give it to them FREE. They want to make Medicaid the Single Payer of last resort.

They are designing a one size fits all MEGA coverage, and forcing it top down.

Rick Santorum is woefully ignorant or won’t look at our health care here, he just “lies” and generalizes. Why would someone be so obdurate, does he want to be President that badly? There is no socialized medicine in MA, except for Medicaid which is forced on us. I want him to stand up and tell the truth.

Fleuries on February 17, 2012 at 9:30 AM

President Barack “Downgrade” Obummer looking positively Demonic in that picture, huh?

/following Maxine Water’s line of reasoning.

Colbyjack on February 17, 2012 at 9:30 AM

reading better, no one. abstinence might be safer for sure, but also meant to fail because people will end up doing sex. and contraception will be needed at that point and should be available and cheap for the benefit of the overall sociaty.

by the way, its not PP or obamacare that its creating the american sex lust, its the commercials and culture that discovered that sex sells.

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM

We “can’t help it”? Balderdash. I’m nearly 40 years old, I don’t have any STD’s and never have, and I don’t have any children out of wedlock. All it takes is self control.

Assuming that people can’t control themselves and the government MUST step in is the same old leftist excuse for subsiding personal irresponsibility using money stolen from the responsible.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:31 AM

Hey, great point! You would think that libtards would also recognize that same fact with trigger locks and safeties on handguns, but ahhhhhh….no. They want to ban those and control them due to **safety** issues. I mean, no safety or trigger lock works 100% of the time, it just makes for safer handling and reduces the risk of accidental discharge, that’s all that the NRA is arguing, but do they get the same leeway? discuss.

ted c on February 17, 2012 at 9:11 AM

And don’t forget the ‘loaded indicator’ and ‘magazine safety’ that I believe the communists of Massachusetts insisted handgun manufacturers include. My M&Ps have a loaded indicator – a fricken big hole in the top of the frame. Ideal for collecting dust and grime but it obviously makes the guns far safer. I haven’t filled in the hole but those magazine histories had to go.

Statists will regulate us into the ground in the name of ‘safety’. You think the EPA over-reaches? Shut up racist, you just want to live in a world with arsenic and cadmium laced water that kills babies and kittens.

CorporatePiggy on February 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM

However inartfully it was posed..

The issue is, if you think that all Americans should be forced to pay for your birth control, even if in your soul, you believe it to be murder.. then under what possible excuse could you then say…

stay out of my womb?

You already invited the government there.. handed out raffle tickets at the door, gave out party hats.. but when the actual taxpayer gets there.. you all of a sudden, douse the lights, flush the joints, and try and act like nobodies home.. you didn’t invite the government into your womb.. you screaming demanded it..

now, suddenly you’re all chaste and shy?

You can’t have it both ways.. and intelligent women understand the trade offs, which is why they fight you..

But the progressives have raised whole generations of fat dumb lazy people who jes wants theys free stuff.. you promised it to them, you pay for it.

You could donate to PP, could raise money,.. do fundraisers.. but no, the first option of a liberal, is to get the government to confiscate the money from people who are morally outraged by the libertine anything goes culture the left has nurtured like a prize calf.

Liberal thinking has devastated the inner city, destroyed black families, wrecked ruin on everything it’s touched..

none of that offends you..

but being told by the person who is forced at IRS gunpoint to fund your playtime, to excercise some flipping self control.. now that offends you.

Your priorities are totally screwed up.

mark81150 on February 17, 2012 at 9:33 AM

by the way, its not PP or obamacare that its creating the american sex lust, its the commercials and culture that discovered that sex sells.

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM

FYI – There’s another post on HA right now showing how PP participates in Ameican sex lust. One might say that PP is sort of like the tobacco companies…but while Joe Camel was drummed out as marketing to kids, PP has no such restrictions. Interesting dynamic.

Deafdog on February 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

How can support be this high?

tom daschle concerned on February 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Given the MSM/Media Matters/White House-supported/coordinated meme that has been dominating the coverage of the issue (Republicans want to stop women from having access to birth control!), it’s surprising that it isn’t higher.

AZCoyote on February 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

so, because of that, lets ban contraception?

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Idiot, who is talking about banning contraception?

St Gaudens on February 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Why are libs so dedicated to population control and murder by way of abortion? Can you explain?

Key West Reader on February 17, 2012 at 9:22 AM

I’m so genuinely interested in your question I’m going to ignore the stupid baby murder part.

I don’t know if anyone here is an Orson Scott Card fan but I am and one of his best books is Pastwatch. And one of the key ideas behind the book isn’t that the earth will run out of fossil fuels, but that we will run out of space, arable land and fresh water. And this is sort of already happening (see the water wars in Arizona, California etc., see rising famine rates around the globe). Humanity does not have an underpopulation problem (except for Japan) we have an overpopulation problem and that’s the bigger threat to our survival as a species than oil.

On a smaller scale, people who engage in family planning and wait to have kids when they are financially ready are much less likely to ask the state for resources in the form of food stamps or children’s health insurance etc. etc. We shouldn’t be encouraging abstinence or abortion even. We should be encouraging non-procreative sex. There are so many ways two individuals can have a mutually satisfying sexual experience, without *any* risk of pregnancy. Hopefully you have the imagination to figure out what I mean here. We should encourage our maturing teens to make v*ginal intercourse something truly special that they wait later in life for and teach them to be unashamed to pursue their desires in less catastrophic ways. This is also why I found that anti-PP video Tina posted so exorbitantly stupid. Why shouldn’t a 16 year old man or woman learn about what a prost*te or cl*toris is? Isn’t that better than them fumbling through vagin*l intercourse and ending up with a baby before they’re ready?

Instead you expend your energies on trying to get people to keep their legs together (something thats never ever happened in the history of humanity) or yelling at women who seek out ways to family plan, including abortion. Unwanted pregnancies would be a lot less likely if people reserved v*ginal intercourse for their future husband/wife.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Fleuries on February 17, 2012 at 9:30 AM

A sad fact is that you make a better case for Romney care than Romney does.

Deafdog on February 17, 2012 at 9:36 AM

Amazing how human beings have been able to exist for a quarter of a million years with out Planned Parenthood isn’t it?

These kinds of arguments are just foolish. Modernity is new and its modernity that demands family planning.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:36 AM

abstinence might be safer for sure, but also meant to fail because people will end up doing sex. and contraception will be needed at that point and should be available and cheap for the benefit of the overall sociaty.

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM

“Doing sex”? What are you, 12? Contraception is available and cheap. When you grow up and get up the nerve to talk to girls and find one that wants to “do” sex, you’ll both find that you can buy contraceptives everywhere. This is about the rest of us being forced to pay for your contraceptives, and the girl’s abortion if you “do” contraception wrong. Although in your case I might be willing to pay for your condoms to stop the gene pool contamination.

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:37 AM

FYI – There’s another post on HA right now showing how PP participates in Ameican sex lust. One might say that PP is sort of like the tobacco companies…but while Joe Camel was drummed out as marketing to kids, PP has no such restrictions. Interesting dynamic.

Deafdog on February 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Sex has killed more people than every 20th Century leftist dicator combined. 50 million from legalized murder alone since 1973 JUST in this country alone! Not to mention all the deaths from AIDS and other STD’s.

Planned Parenthood is shilling for a far more dangerous product than tobacco. And they are lying to those they advertise to just like the tobacco companies did. There is no more any “safe sex” than there ever will be a “safe cigarette”.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:37 AM

St Gaudens on February 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Nice name. Happen to be a fan of these? :-) http://www.usacoinbook.com/us-coins/saint-gaudens-double-eagle-gold-with-motto.jpg

Doomberg on February 17, 2012 at 9:37 AM

These kinds of arguments are just foolish. Modernity is new and its modernity that demands family planning.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:36 AM

Ever stopped to think of why this is?

I’ll tell you why: 100 years ago the GOVERNMENT wasn’t the leviathan it is today. People could afford large families. Large families got sacrificed on the altar of Big Government. Instead of buying diapers and formula we are PAYING OUTRAGEOUS TAXES.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:40 AM

These kinds of arguments are just foolish. Modernity is new and its modernity that demands family planning.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:36 AM

Hey, you’re the one who said “A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is”, and you want to talk about foolish arguments??

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:40 AM

And furthermore, we are paying OUTRAGEOUS TAXES to buy diapers and formula for the babies of the IRRESPONSIBLE who don’t have jobs and don’t care how many babies they crank out.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:41 AM

Hey, you’re the one who said “A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is”, and you want to talk about foolish arguments??

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:40 AM

The Roman Empire was the dominant power on Earth for hundreds of years and they didn’t have abortion, “safe sex”, or birth control.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:42 AM

A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

Why are libs so dedicated to population control and murder by way of abortion? Can you explain?

Key West Reader on February 17, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Because the Chinese are handling it so well.. government forced abortions, families smothering first born daughters, so they can get a son, like every good traditional Chinese family has been culturally groomed to want.

A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin.

That, is a myth, it was never even considered till the mid 20th century, and then, by eugenics crazies pushing intentional genocide.

The government which tells you how many children, owns those children. You’re a fool if you believe population control is the end all of all our problems..

mark81150 on February 17, 2012 at 9:42 AM

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:41 AM

Careful friend, you’re inviting another “abortion as cost-effective” barrage from the tards. I got your back!

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:43 AM

The Roman Empire was the dominant power on Earth for hundreds of years and they didn’t have abortion, “safe sex”, or birth control.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:42 AM

I’m agreeing with you friend! See my 9:27 AM post!

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:45 AM

No, but as a society there’s no compelling interest to do so. A society without family planning is a society headed toward ruin. But you know, faster than ours is.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

Communism 101.

wheelgun on February 17, 2012 at 9:45 AM

FYI – There’s another post on HA right now showing how PP participates in Ameican sex lust. One might say that PP is sort of like the tobacco companies…but while Joe Camel was drummed out as marketing to kids, PP has no such restrictions. Interesting dynamic.

Deafdog on February 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

chicken and egg dilema… did PP created the sex drive or is PP just responding to sex drive appeal, in their nanny statish way, to overcome the sex drive appeal so common in our profit driven media that discovered that sex sells.

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Nice name. Happen to be a fan of these? :-) http://www.usacoinbook.com/us-coins/saint-gaudens-double-eagle-gold-with-motto.jpg

Doomberg on February 17, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Thank you. Yes, I like St. Gaudens double eagle design, especially in high relief, but I think I like his eagle design even more.

St Gaudens on February 17, 2012 at 9:47 AM

chicken and egg dilema… did PP created the sex drive or is PP just responding to sex drive appeal…

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Not responding, capitalizing.

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:48 AM

Soledad Obrien on CNN today says to her panel that this “is a contraception debate framed as a religious liberty debate” and truly believes it.

Not that ya’ll need another example of liberals who spoon-feed each other intellectual pablum. But certainly polling is going to reflect the low-grade intellectual comprehension of folks who get their information from the abundance of Ms. Obrien types who are a full snake short of a Gadsden flag.

LetsBfrank on February 17, 2012 at 9:49 AM

You do realize women vote right? I suspect that things will not turn out well for conservatives if they continue to tell adult women that they should just “keep their legs together.” Just a suggestion.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Ok, how’s this ZIP IT.

MontanaMmmm on February 17, 2012 at 9:50 AM

The only contraception that should ever be mandated is that which costs the taxpayers nothing: “keep your LEGS together, Sister”.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 8:49 AM

Sure, and while we are at it let’s please strip all coverage of erectile dysfunction medication from insurance plans. . . please pay for that crap on your own dime.

*sigh*

How about we remember that the main issue is not what is going on in the bedroom, but that religious and individual freedom is being compromised.

cmsciulli on February 17, 2012 at 9:50 AM

The government which tells you how many children, owns those children. You’re a fool if you believe population control is the end all of all our problems..

mark81150 on February 17, 2012 at 9:42 AM

It will end all our problems by ending our society.

Goob job mentioning China, I’d forgotten their one child policy. Forced abortion and abortion on demand seem to wreck every society they are tried in.

Doomberg on February 17, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Sure, and while we are at it let’s please strip all coverage of erectile dysfunction medication from insurance plans. . . please pay for that crap on your own dime.

cmsciulli on February 17, 2012 at 9:50 AM

You find me an insurance plan that pays for ED medication and I’ll paint your house for free! I have prescriptions due to a compelling medical reason…prostate cancer survivor…and they still won’t pay! It’s all about “womyn’s reproductive health” you see!

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:54 AM

These kinds of arguments are just foolish. Modernity is new and its modernity that demands family planning.

libfreeordie on February 17, 2012 at 9:36 AM

utterly false, it’s progressives who demand family planning. Women, through normally occurring societal factors, slow down the size of their families on their own, even before the days of birth control.

It’s a modern urban myth, that women are only able to control their pregnancies through PP or some other false construct. It was called self control, and if you think folks stopped enjoying each other because they didn’t have PP,.. you have a very very limited imagination. People figure things out.. else the Chinese wouldn’t be the only billion plus population.

It’s about indoctrination and control, convincing women, that YOU and PP are their ONLY hope in controling their lives. So then, you naturally, will guide them on everything else as well. Like telling them… that republicans hate them, and want them pregnant and in the kitchen..

That is what the argument is about.. manufacturing a liberal robotic voter base, and our seeing, that is the goal of PP… that, and all the millions they rake in for abortions.

Progressives “empower” women, like a pimp “empowers” them, he exploits them, then ignores them when they age and are no longer useful to him..

The smart women know this,.. and control their own lives, without a liberal minder to tell them what to feel and think.

mark81150 on February 17, 2012 at 9:54 AM

We “can’t help it”? Balderdash. I’m nearly 40 years old, I don’t have any STD’s and never have, and I don’t have any children out of wedlock. All it takes is self control.

Assuming that people can’t control themselves and the government MUST step in is the same old leftist excuse for subsiding personal irresponsibility using money stolen from the responsible.

wildcat72 on February 17, 2012 at 9:31 AM

libertarian stand there… which i agree with…
I confess i am divided on the level of libertarinism to be given.
for example, public education is good for me because it makes me deal less with the literate population that would result of no public education .
in this racional some public health services like vaccination also make sense. and free contraception might fall into this category.

i haven’t seen any good argument on this topic here in HA…

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:55 AM

You find me an insurance plan that pays for ED medication and I’ll paint your house for free!
Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:54 AM

How are your roofing skills? :-P

cmsciulli on February 17, 2012 at 9:56 AM

libertarian stand there… which i agree with…
I confess i am divided on the level of libertarinism to be given.
for example, public education is good for me because it makes me deal less with the literate population that would result of no public education .
in this racional some public health services like vaccination also make sense. and free contraception might fall into this category.

i haven’t seen any good argument on this topic here in HA…

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:55 AM

Anybody here fluent in gibberish care to translate this post?

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:59 AM

chicken and egg dilema… did PP created the sex drive or is PP just responding to sex drive appeal…

nathor on February 17, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Nathor, did you happen to see this? Not hard to miss it’s on the same page.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/16/just-what-you-want-to-hear-planned-parenthood-works-around-the-clock-to-hook-your-kids-on-sex/

MontanaMmmm on February 17, 2012 at 9:59 AM

How are your roofing skills? :-P

cmsciulli on February 17, 2012 at 9:56 AM

I got a hammer, that ok?

Trafalgar on February 17, 2012 at 9:59 AM

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