Pelosi: Yes, of course, the Catholic Church should be forced to cover contraception — even if it’s self-insured

posted at 5:30 pm on February 16, 2012 by Allahpundit

Remember, the “compromise” is that insurance companies will foot the bill for contraception themselves so that religious institutions technically aren’t paying for it. That’s a minor concession given that the plan will still cover birth control — and it’s a nonexistent concession if premiums end up rising to pay for the contraception — but that was the compromise. One wrinkle: What happens if the religious institution is the insurance company, i.e. if it self-insures? Surely they get a conscience exemption in that case, right?

Right?

House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi said Thursday morning that the government should require self-insured religious institutions, such as the Catholic church in Washington, D.C., to directly pay for contraception and abortifacients.

At a press conference, Leader Pelosi was asked by THE WEEKLY STANDARD: “The Catholic Church in Washington, D.C., is a self-insured institution. Should the Catholic Church in Washington, D.C., be required to pay for these morning-after pills and birth control if they find that morally objectionable?”

Pelosi talked about the importance of women’s health, and then said, “Yes, I think that all institutions who cover, who give, health insurance should cover the full range of health insurance issues for women.”

That’s from the Standard’s John McCormack, whom you can hear posing the question to Pelosi in the video below of today’s presser (via Breitbart TV). When McCormack asked Dick Durbin about an exemption for self-insurers, he at least struggled with the issue. Not Nancy. When access to the pill collides with what she once eloquently described as “this conscience thing” that Catholics have, religious freedom bows without hesitation. Someone should float this “compromise” for her at the next media availability: What if the Church grandfathered in current employees by providing full coverage but eliminated contraception coverage for future hires? A job applicant could take that deal or leave it; this way, over time, the Church would gradually phase out coverage of birth control as employees retire instead of pulling the rug out from under current personnel. (Whether the bishops would agree to that, I don’t know. They should be asked too.) Everyone else in the world considers the benefits package when deciding whether to accept a job offer, after all. If that means only Catholics end up working for the Church, the Church will have to make do with its newly limited hire pool.

Here’s the clip. Watch to the end to find Pelosi, a Catholic herself, pushing the crapola statistic that 98 percent of Catholic women have used contraception. Exit question via Nick Rizzuto: Is it time to mandate that vegetarian restaurants serve the healthy (and tasty) protein source known as red meat?


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

Pelosi is about as religious as I am – the difference being that I’m not a hypocrite.

OldEnglish on February 16, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Pelosi needs to be excommunicated now. She is obviously not Catholic and is going completely and vocally against the teachings of the Church. No one if forcing her to be Catholic if she doesn’t believe in the teachings. She has a right, and indeed a duty, to stop calling herself Catholic when she is clearly only Catholic when it suits her political purposes. Come on, bishops, be brave and publicly excommunicate her.

lukjuj on February 16, 2012 at 5:34 PM

I agree, however, I would ask that she be exorcized first.

TXUS on February 16, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Pelosi has excommunicated HERSELF.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Too bad she can’t self-exorcise.

squint on February 16, 2012 at 6:21 PM

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 6:16 PM

If I’m not mistaken Pelosi still attends church, not that that means anything.

I don’t seem to recall anyone ever being excommunicated publicly at least nobody famous.

steel guy on February 16, 2012 at 6:22 PM

Someone needs to explain why people with a job so desperately need their employers to pay the $12 a month that birth control pills cost.

Spliff Menendez on February 16, 2012 at 6:23 PM

these words woke up the annoying atheist in me.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:15 PM

Why exactly? Do you think promiscuity is a positive for society?

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 6:25 PM

Nancy is full of charisma, uniquness, nerve and talent.

SouthernGent on February 16, 2012 at 6:09 PM

She’s full of something, for sure, and it ain’t those. Pity that her mother apparently followed the RCC’s teachings and brought her into this world.

TXUS on February 16, 2012 at 6:25 PM

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Can’t the Catholic Church publicly disavow her or state she’s been denied Mass?

Until something like that happens, won’t she still be able to say she’s a Catholic?

INC on February 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM

Pelosi: Yes, of course, the Catholic Church should be forced to cover contraception — even if it’s self-insured

Where did the Downgrade Administration get the authority to do this?

Chip on February 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM

that would be fun to watch… it would be such a defeat for the church.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 5:37 PM

Doubtful.

are you guys talking about aspirins or something?

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 5:47 PM

Not exactly. Now go pound sand.

chewmeister on February 16, 2012 at 6:28 PM

I have always wished that the Pope would excommunicate her.I was hopeful that this one would…

sandee on February 16, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Someone needs to explain why people with a job so desperately need their employers to pay the $12 a month that birth control pills cost.

Spliff Menendez on February 16, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Don’t be fooled by their subterfuge, this isn’t about contraception, as Speaker Gingrich and others have stated, this is a war against Religious Freedom and the dismantling of our First Amendment Rights.

Flora Duh on February 16, 2012 at 6:29 PM

It and keeps going and going and going….
will this rabbit ever die ?
Doubtful.
We be…..pwned.

by Nancy of all people.

FlaMurph on February 16, 2012 at 6:29 PM

I have a question…where was Pelosi, NOW, Planned Parenthood, etc…before Obama was even elected. If accessibility to birth control was so big a problem that they now have to force the Church to violate its own tenets, why didn’t they raise this issue ever before? If it truly is a “problem” it certainly isn’t a new problem. It is a perk, nothing more, thrown at the feet of the progressives, while they happily mock institutions and peoples of faith who would have the gall to state that the availability of birth control is not in the best interests of its people because it cheapens women and weakens families.

redmama on February 16, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Someone needs to explain why people with a job so desperately need their employers to pay the $12 a month that birth control pills cost.

Spliff Menendez on February 16, 2012 at 6:23 PM

All part of the master plan.

chewmeister on February 16, 2012 at 6:30 PM

When he said it, I thought it was kind of dumb.

I guess Perry wasn’t so off the mark after all.

cozmo on February 16, 2012 at 6:19 PM

There is no need to qualify what Perry said, he stated clearly, and he didn’t stutter.

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 6:30 PM

I agree with your position that it would be nicely accepted by a good portion of Catholics, but I disagree that it would be a very bad move.

unclesmrgol on February 16, 2012 at 6:19 PM

i meant NOT nicely accepted… but the both statements are true. some would distance themselfs from the church, others closer. but despite all the ecclesiastical laws you pasted, they are not enforced for a reason. such an action on a top politician would provoke a large group of other dem catholic politicians\public figures\general catholics to declare support for pelosi against the church provoking the church to proceed with more excommunications. the church would have then hard time to control some of its own priests and… schism!

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:31 PM

I’m not Catholic and am slightly confused.

Does one need to be excommunicated before the Exorcism or not?

The evil is strong with this woman.

turfmann on February 16, 2012 at 5:41 PM

As Hitler ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlnd4zW1NCU ) said about the defeat of O’Donnell:

Thankfully O’Donnell didn’t win.
Pelosi would have felt threatened by another witch over in the Senate.

unclesmrgol on February 16, 2012 at 6:32 PM

hey, do you have something to say about this

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:15 PM

No.

darwin on February 16, 2012 at 6:33 PM

Where did the Downgrade Administration get the authority to do this?

Chip on February 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM

Where did they get the authority to do half the things they do.

If you got the presidency along wiht the congress the you are allowed to run roughshod over the constitution and let the courts figure it out later whether or not its legal. By then hopefully you will have stacked the courts in your favor as well

steel guy on February 16, 2012 at 6:33 PM

Why is it that liberals themselfs from dictionaries?

KrebsCyclist on February 16, 2012 at 6:33 PM

INC on February 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM

Frankly, I would LOVE to see the Church speak out and deny her Mass, but I don’t really know if that’s an option.
Please school me in this, since it seems logical for them to DENY HER THE SACRAMENTS, but I’m just not certain they can/do.
Anyone ?
She can cloak herself in her claims of being a practicing Catholic, but it does not make it so.
She is an anethema. (her actions take her to the place that the Church has already declared her cursed, denounced)

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Why exactly? Do you think promiscuity is a positive for society?

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 6:25 PM

i dont, I think it leads to personal and familly unhapiness… however, the contents of the article were that atheist like myself were a consequence of sexual freedom. like I was a negative thing in society or something. pure bigotry!

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:36 PM

You have to pass this bill to find out what is in it.

Well this force coverage was in Obamacare all the time. Just what other “unknown time bombs” are in Obamacare that with a few changes in the language of the regulation used to comply with the law could make people buy much more that just the insurance coverage. Mandatory HPV vaccine for woman rights will show up for both genders.

tjexcite on February 16, 2012 at 6:37 PM

Perhaps Pelosi should consider the fact that the Church would rather call itself a fool in the eyes of men (and women) than a fool in the eyes of God.

Look at it this way. The money that women save on contraception would definitely come in handy the next time they buy their $5.00/gal of gas. After all, that would offset their fuel costs for…….oh, maybe one week. After all, it appears that contraception is now the liberal top issue of the week.

Kingfisher on February 16, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Where did the Downgrade Administration get the authority to do this?

Chip on February 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM

Where did they get the authority to do half the things they do.

If you got the presidency along with the congress the you are allowed to run roughshod over the constitution and let the courts figure it out later whether or not its legal. By then hopefully you will have stacked the courts in your favor as well

steel guy on February 16, 2012 at 6:33 PM

I still know why it doesn’t bother some that the early actions the Downgrade Administration are eerily similar to Oppressive regimes of the past.

Chip on February 16, 2012 at 6:38 PM

You guys give this woman too much credit. I don’t think she understood the question at all. I don’t think she knows what self-insured means. She probably thinks it means you purchase the policy yourself over the internet rather than rely on a salesman.

The reason she hasn’t been excommunicated is A)the Church agrees with her 90 percent of the time and B)the Church is weak.

A strong Catholic Church would just excommunicate and refuse to explain itself. A weak Church sends out Bill Donohue to have an attack of apoplexy on every morning show that will have him.

Mr. Arkadin on February 16, 2012 at 6:39 PM

I’ve heard the 98% nonsense trumpeted by proggie talking heads as late as last night without argument from conservatives, even though we’ve now seen what a nonsense stat it is.

I expect it will live on much like the “90% of guns in Mexican crimes” garbage that they created out of nothing.

slickwillie2001 on February 16, 2012 at 6:42 PM

The church works behind the scenes unless they want to send a message. I would say she went a step too far this time using the church’s doctrine to further her secular political agenda. But there won’t be any spectacle. It’s odd Joe Biden and John F Kerry think better than to go down this path. Massachusetts and Delaware have Catholic populations Nan probably thinks there won’t be a backlash back in her home district of San Francisco so she “thinks” she can risk this position.

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 6:00 PM

no, if the church excommunicates her, she will just switch to some other denomination and rail against the church for intolerance. public opinion of the church will decrease and they will be seen as fascists.
nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Where did I mention excommunication?

There are over 65 million Catholics alone in the United States. There are already other religious denominations that have stated they will stand with the Catholic Church on this issue.

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 6:42 PM

I still know why it doesn’t bother some that the early actions the Downgrade Administration are eerily similar to Oppressive regimes of the past.

Chip on February 16, 2012 at 6:38 PM

YUP

steel guy on February 16, 2012 at 6:43 PM

When will the Catholic Church finally have the balls to excomunicate her????

How many times must she publically denouce the fundamental, basic,foundational tenets of the Church before they tell her to take a hike?

BMF on February 16, 2012 at 6:44 PM

No.

darwin on February 16, 2012 at 6:33 PM

what? no denunciation of the anti-atheist bigotry?
read it again:

This desire for unfettered access to sex is probably one of the greatest reasons for this country’s unfortunate descent into the realms of atheism and agnosticism.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:46 PM

like I was a negative thing in society or something. pure bigotry!

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:36 PM

Wait, what? You’re upset that Christians have a problem with the belief that they’re full of sh!t and tend to think that line of thinking is a negative on society?

That’s Christianity 101. Our theology teaches that atheism is a product of a fallen world, harmful to the person and the society, that it keeps you from having the relationship with God that you were meant to have and thus keeps you a slave to the flesh. It’s not even that you’re a negative on society but rather that you’re the product of one and a symptom of a world that needs salvation.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 6:48 PM

what? no denunciation of the anti-atheist bigotry?
read it again:

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:46 PM

I don’t really care what it says. Why do you? If it’s true … it’s true. If it’s not … it’s not.

darwin on February 16, 2012 at 6:49 PM

Where did I mention excommunication?

There are over 65 million Catholics alone in the United States. There are already other religious denominations that have stated they will stand with the Catholic Church on this issue.

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 6:42 PM

do you know I am counted as one of those catholics? the dems are seeing this as a easy culture fight to win, and they are right.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:49 PM

Nancy should have been excommunicated long ago. She’s an unrepentent sinner.

disa on February 16, 2012 at 6:50 PM

Notice the story did NOT say “House minority leader…”

RMCS_USN on February 16, 2012 at 6:52 PM

The more detailed statistics in the yearbook refer to the situation reported by dioceses and religious orders as of December 31, 2009.

The number of Catholics reported was about 1.18 billion, the Vatican said, which was up 15 million from the 1.16 billion reported a year earlier.

While only 13.6 per cent of the world’s people live in the Americas, 49.4 percent of all Catholics live there, the Vatican said.

This whole ploy was to pander for the women’s vote. I am guessing shedding Catholic votes was a calculated risk. From now until the November election, there will be religious clergy in the pulpit sermonizing on this topic of all religious denominations. Obama, Obama, Obama, Oh No Obama LOL!

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Could anyone venture a guess as to the medications she is taking?

kozmo on February 16, 2012 at 6:54 PM

do you know I am counted as one of those catholics? the dems are seeing this as a easy culture fight to win, and they are right.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:49 PM

Yeah dude … this guy Obama is scaring people shytless. The drones and idiots have no clue. Everyone else does and the more they talk about it the more they learn and the more they learn the more they talk to their friends who talk to other friends. The beauty of the internet and cell phones is one person can influence thousands.

This wasn’t a smart move. It was a move simply to push the agenda, and like ObamaCare they should have waited. They were doing just fine boiling us slowly. Now we know we’re boiling and we’re going to jump out.

darwin on February 16, 2012 at 6:55 PM

Where did I mention excommunication?

There are over 65 million Catholics alone in the United States. There are already other religious denominations that have stated they will stand with the Catholic Church on this issue.

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 6:42 PM

do you know I am counted as one of those catholics? the dems are seeing this as a easy culture fight to win, and they are right.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:49 PM

You can only speak for yourself, and you are one person.

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 6:55 PM

“Too bad she can’t self-exorcise.”

Now wouldn’t that be a sight !!
Kinda like a Chevy Volt AHHHHH !! POOF !!

stormridercx4 on February 16, 2012 at 6:56 PM

Just because I’ve been curious…
http://atheism.about.com/od/ideasforatheistactivism/a/Excommunication.htm

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 6:56 PM

BY WHAT AUTHORITY, NANCY, DOES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DICTATE ANYTHING TO ANYONE???

God I’m sick of this crap and that evil woman.

Charlemagne on February 16, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Why does she even belong to an organization with which she fundamentally disagrees with. What is she getting out of this relationship?

steel guy on February 16, 2012 at 6:58 PM

Could anyone venture a guess as to the medications she is taking?

kozmo on February 16, 2012 at 6:54 PM

When I read the bar bill she stuck us with when she was speaker. I have to think she’s got bent elbow disease :) Alcohol will pickle your brain.

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 6:59 PM

do you know I am counted as one of those catholics? the dems are seeing this as a easy culture fight to win, and they are right.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 6:49 PM

You’re an atheist Catholic? You don’t see anything wrong with that?

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 6:59 PM

INC on February 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM

It’s called personal interdict…

affenhauer on February 16, 2012 at 7:00 PM

What is she getting out of this relationship?

steel guy on February 16, 2012 at 6:58 PM

Gullible voters?

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:00 PM

You’re an atheist Catholic? You don’t see anything wrong with that?

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 6:59 PM

It’s that New Age atheism.

darwin on February 16, 2012 at 7:01 PM

@Dani_Sherrill Video: Father Jonathan Morris Says “I’m Willing to Die” to Stop Obama Contraception Plan http://t.co/SCDDPtJj

Flora Duh on February 16, 2012 at 7:01 PM

She’s full of something, for sure, and it ain’t those. Pity that her mother apparently followed the RCC’s teachings and brought her into this world.

TXUS on February 16, 2012 at 6:25 PM

I wasn’t complimenting her. ;-) (Watch RuPaul’s drag race or internet search it)

SouthernGent on February 16, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Wait, what? You’re upset that Christians have a problem with the belief that they’re full of sh!t and tend to think that line of thinking is a negative on society?

?!? what?

That’s Christianity 101. Our theology teaches that atheism is a product of a fallen world, harmful to the person and the society,

I am harmful to society? *shock* so, Christians see me as a sick person or something.. and desire to put me away so that their society wont be hurt?

that it keeps you from having the relationship with God that you were meant to have and thus keeps you a slave to the flesh.

i think am more a happy slave of my family than anything else…

It’s not even that you’re a negative on society but rather that you’re the product of one and a symptom of a world that needs salvation.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 6:48 PM

so now i am not harming society? what is it? am I harmful to society or not? and by the way, is my atheist wife and possibly my child’s when they grow to understand this stuff also harmful?

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:03 PM

When someone is excommunicated, does the Catholic church make that information available to the public? If not, who’s to say it hasn’t already happened?

Komsomoletz on February 16, 2012 at 7:06 PM

You’re an atheist Catholic? You don’t see anything wrong with that?

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 6:59 PM

maybe i should print that debaptize request famous in atheist sites and deliver it to the church so I am officially not counted in their statistics.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:07 PM

Nazi is eather completely insane or just plain evil, how can anyone just drop the beliefs she held since a very young age just to follow a man who has no beliefs. These progs just amaze me, you throw everything away to “find out whats in it” I’ll bet her grandchildren will be proud when their older and look back at her history.

angrymike on February 16, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Just because I’ve been curious…
http://atheism.about.com/od/ideasforatheistactivism/a/Excommunication.htm

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 6:56 PM

yes, i know about this. its just not that easy to be excommunicated as it seems. but i did a thing that the church also really hates, my sons are not baptized and their are out of their statistics. they can choose a religion when their are older, but now, they are officially not catholic.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:14 PM

“. . . but, when the church imposes political views on politicians by threat of excommunication, it would be nicely accepted by a good portions of catholics. it would be a very bad move.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 5:45 PM”

The Catholic Church does not “impose political views”. The Catholic Church proposes religious truths and articles of faith and explains the consequences of failure to adhere to the same (excommunication – - separation from union with Christ). The politician, and anyone else for that matter, is free to accept or reject the truth, to abide by the teachings of the Church or to defy them. As has been pointed out by others, by her rejection and defiance, Pelosi has excommunicated herself (and she is not alone). The problem arises when the defiant rejecter continues to publicly proclaim their ardent, faithfulness to the Church. I don’t know whether Pelosi regularly attends Mass and, if so, whether she presents herself for Communion. If she does, then we have a problem. If she does not, maybe she really does understand the gravity of her actions. I won’t hold my breath on that one.

Lammo on February 16, 2012 at 7:14 PM

There are two Catholics running for President you would think one of them also a former Speaker of the House would have an opinion on this issue. All the waivers handed out for Obamacare, but none for the Catholic Church? They picked this fight intentionally. I guess they want to find out how much juice the religious community still has in this country. I heard Muslims were reaching out to Catholics to support them also……when you lose the Muslims LOL!

Roughly 1,200 companies received waivers from part of the healthcare reform law, the Health and Human Services Department (HHS) said Friday.

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 7:16 PM

Don’t be fooled by their subterfuge, this isn’t about contraception, as Speaker Gingrich and others have stated, this is a war against Religious Freedom and the dismantling of our First Amendment Rights.

Flora Duh on February 16, 2012 at 6:29 PM

I disagree. This is about the liberal/communist wet dream of population control that they’ve been having for over a century. It’s nothing new that they want to replace God with the State.

Spliff Menendez on February 16, 2012 at 7:16 PM

?!? what?

What does this even mean? Are you truly surprised that Christians are not cool with atheism?

I am harmful to society? *shock* so, Christians see me as a sick person or something.. and desire to put me away so that their society wont be hurt?

No, Christians want to convert you, so that you won’t be hurt.

i think am more a happy slave of my family than anything else…

It was a given that you’d disagree with Christian theology on the subject. My only point was that it’s basic Christian theology.

so now i am not harming society? what is it? am I harmful to society or not? and by the way, is my atheist wife and possibly my child’s when they grow to understand this stuff also harmful?

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:03 PM

I get that you commented on my post as you read it, but I meant it to be one whole thing, not to be separated in parts. I wasn’t contradicting myself but rather expanding on a specific point.

Hell is life without God. Atheists specifically reject God and thus subject themselves to hell here on Earth as well as after death. That’s your choice, but it’s not what Christians want for you or for those around you.

Even in what you’ve quoted, it’s the sexual promiscuity that’s bad for society in part because it leads to this life without God. That’s the negative. Atheism is the product of that, at least according to whoever wrote that.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Yeah dude … this guy Obama is scaring people shytless. The drones and idiots have no clue. Everyone else does and the more they talk about it the more they learn and the more they learn the more they talk to their friends who talk to other friends. The beauty of the internet and cell phones is one person can influence thousands.

This wasn’t a smart move. It was a move simply to push the agenda, and like ObamaCare they should have waited. They were doing just fine boiling us slowly. Now we know we’re boiling and we’re going to jump out.

darwin on February 16, 2012 at 6:55 PM

this is not about obama care anymore, its about religion…

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:18 PM

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Well, as it’s been explained to me, I haven’t been FORMALLY excommunicated by the church, but I am among those ‘unfaithful’ who are considered an anethema, accursed, denounced, because I no longer line up with their teachings/engage in the requirements which enable me to participate in the sacraments.
Neither does Nancy Pelosi.
That’s all I’m saying.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 7:21 PM

maybe i should print that debaptize request famous in atheist sites and deliver it to the church so I am officially not counted in their statistics.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:07 PM

According to the link, you have to talk to your bishop. But don’t ask me. I don’t get Catholicism. It’s significantly easier to leave a Baptist church, or a charismatic one. No atheist ritual required.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:22 PM

Time for a little excommunication!

redware on February 16, 2012 at 7:22 PM

this is not about obama care anymore, its about religion…

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Not really. This is still ultimately about government overreach. None of us deserve protection from that if Catholics don’t. None of us should be forced to cover elective procedures.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:25 PM

Nathor
I’m a atheist Catholic myself, but this pi$$ed me off. Its more about them saying what you believe doesn’t matter. Its back to the old “I’m from the government I’m here to help” I will not let them think they know what’s better for me and my family than I do. It’s a control thing, not only about Catholics.

angrymike on February 16, 2012 at 7:27 PM

this is not about obama care anymore, its about religion…

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Wrong this is about Obamacare and the 1st Amendment. Do you really think this contraceptive mandate is constitutional? Why didn’t the Obama administration just grant them a waiver? The Catholic Church was an easy target. Obama picks a fight with the church to champion women’s health. That’s the headline. The Obama campaign is after shoring up the women’s vote. His internal polling must look weak with the women voter demographic. Still it would be nice to have some FREE contraception and abortifacient -morning after pill at the OWS camps “Rape Free Tents” not withstanding/

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Hell is life without God. Atheists specifically reject God and thus subject themselves to hell here on Earth as well as after death. That’s your choice, but it’s not what Christians want for you or for those around you.

hell here on earth? where? you think my life is hell?

Even in what you’ve quoted, it’s the sexual promiscuity that’s bad for society in part because it leads to this life without God. That’s the negative. Atheism is the product of that, at least according to whoever wrote that.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:18 PM

i take it you dont exactly agree with the author….

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:29 PM

No one needs to be excommunicated to no longer be considered a Catholic.
Simply do NOT claim Catholicism as your ‘religion’ on any paperwork, simply because you were baptized one.
If you’ve not followed ALL (and I mean ALL) of their requirements for recieving the sacraments, you are no longer a Catholic.
The Vatican does NOT have some big book with all of our names in it, so fear not.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Not really. This is still ultimately about government overreach. None of us deserve protection from that if Catholics don’t. None of us should be forced to cover elective procedures.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:25 PM

this obamacare, for me is just about goverment overreach. that is all. too much goverment and burocracy and cronyism, etc etc…
but painting this as some religious freedom struggle is not the way to go. i said it before. when a law is made, make it for everybody without religious exceptions or dont make it at all. its the fact the church is demanding an exception that annoys me.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:36 PM

The Vatican does NOT have some big book with all of our names in it, so fear not.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 7:29 PM

yes the have, its the baptism books.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

She is just another splendid dupe actively betraying the Constitution.

StubbleSpark on February 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Wrong this is about Obamacare and the 1st Amendment. Do you really think this contraceptive mandate is constitutional? Why didn’t the Obama administration just grant them a waiver? The Catholic Church was an easy target. Obama picks a fight with the church to champion women’s health. That’s the headline. The Obama campaign is after shoring up the women’s vote. His internal polling must look weak with the women voter demographic. Still it would be nice to have some FREE contraception and abortifacient -morning after pill at the OWS camps “Rape Free Tents” not withstanding/

Dr Evil on February 16, 2012 at 7:29 PM

this obamacare, for me is just about goverment overreach. that is all. too much goverment and burocracy and cronyism, etc etc…
but painting this as some religious freedom struggle is not the way to go. i said it before. when a law is made, make it for everybody without religious exceptions or dont make it at all. its the fact the church is demanding an exception that annoys me.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:38 PM

hell here on earth? where? you think my life is hell?

It is by definition. As I said, hell is the absence of God. If you don’t have a relationship with God, then you know what hell is.

I’m using the word literally, not as a metaphor for how awesome/horrible I think your life is. I assume it’s good, or at least I hope so. You sound like a reasonable person and a loving father.

i take it you dont exactly agree with the author….

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:29 PM

I don’t think promiscuity has anything to do with atheism. People rationalize all sorts of things a loving god supposedly would not do or would not ban.

But I am a Christian, and I know the unique value in a relationship with God and what it means to not have one. I would not wish that separation on anyone. That said, I would never argue that atheists cannot be good people or that they are necessarily a net negative on society. I believe they harm themselves more than anyone else, and that’s not something that makes me happy.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Nathor
I’m a atheist Catholic myself, but this pi$$ed me off. Its more about them saying what you believe doesn’t matter. Its back to the old “I’m from the government I’m here to help” I will not let them think they know what’s better for me and my family than I do. It’s a control thing, not only about Catholics.

angrymike on February 16, 2012 at 7:27 PM

this obamacare, for me is just about goverment overreach. that is all. too much goverment and burocracy and cronyism, etc etc…
but painting this as some religious freedom struggle is not the way to go. i said it before. when a law is made, make it for everybody without religious exceptions or dont make it at all. its the fact the church is demanding an exception that annoys me.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:39 PM

According to the link, you have to talk to your bishop. But don’t ask me. I don’t get Catholicism. It’s significantly easier to leave a Baptist church, or a charismatic one. No atheist ritual required.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:22 PM

eh, its actually a catholic ritual…

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:40 PM

when a law is made, make it for everybody without religious exceptions or dont make it at all. its the fact the church is demanding an exception that annoys me.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:36 PM

I know. You’ve said as much before. But does this mean you think churches should not be able to discriminate based on belief? I can’t teach at a Catholic school unless I lie and say I am Catholic. Should that not be allowed? It’s a law that applies to other organizations. My current job couldn’t even ask my religious beliefs during the interview.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:45 PM

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Yeah, our baptisms are recorded, but how on earth can they know that I know longer practice/that I have rejected their teachings/am thereby considered an anethema ? Unless I qualified for an outright excommunication, which I don’t, they have no clue.
THAT’s the record I’m speaking of.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 7:45 PM

Flora Duh on February 16, 2012
Flora, here’s our church prez speaking out today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=527spTZiwBU

MontanaMmmm on February 16, 2012 at 7:48 PM

My friend Geoff at Innocent Bystanders debunked the 98% statistic far more thoroughly and effectively than the WaPo.

http://tinyurl.com/7r56a23

Pelosi’s no Catholic, either, no matter what she calls herself.

Jazz on February 16, 2012 at 7:48 PM

eh, its actually a catholic ritual…

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:40 PM

Debaptism? Eh, what would I know.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:50 PM

But I am a Christian, and I know the unique value in a relationship with God and what it means to not have one. I would not wish that separation on anyone. That said, I would never argue that atheists cannot be good people or that they are necessarily a net negative on society. I believe they harm themselves more than anyone else, and that’s not something that makes me happy.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:39 PM

you sound like the nice envangelicals I know… you are kripptonite to my bad atheist side.
I understand you, but you are not representative of all christians and despite your attempt, i am still convinced that, that author was an anti atheist bigot…. but thanks for reminding me that not all Christian are like that…

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:51 PM

Debaptism? Eh, what would I know.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:50 PM

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/religion/Voluntary-De-Baptism-Rising-in-Europe-137592823.html

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 7:45 PM

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/religion/Voluntary-De-Baptism-Rising-in-Europe-137592823.html

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:54 PM

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:40 PM
It is ? Have never found that. Enlighten, please ?
No snarc.. purely interested.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 7:54 PM

LOL.. post-cross hell… thanks.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 7:55 PM

HOW has that woman not been excommunicated by now???

Murf76 on February 16, 2012 at 7:56 PM

I know. You’ve said as much before. But does this mean you think churches should not be able to discriminate based on belief? I can’t teach at a Catholic school unless I lie and say I am Catholic. Should that not be allowed? It’s a law that applies to other organizations. My current job couldn’t even ask my religious beliefs during the interview.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 7:45 PM

depends of the activity they get into. the church owns schools, hospitals, banks, insurance companies, and much more.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:57 PM

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Wow … Not exactly unfathomable.
I just don’t worry about being on THEIR rolls, in the least.
I just think that those rolls won’t be what I’m eventually judged by, so why bother.
To anyone wondering, I have absolutely NOTHING against the Catholics… merely hypocritical ones, like so many aforementioned governmental, opportunistically Catholic representatives.
Sigh.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM

It is ? Have never found that. Enlighten, please ?
No snarc.. purely interested.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 7:54 PM

read here stories of people that asked for debaptism…
some got it:
http://www.secularism.org.uk/official-debaptism.html

this one is interesting:

A letter from Andrea in Italy:

I have just discovered the NSS; it’s incredible how sometimes you feel you know who’s around but then you keep finding great secular groups and resources!!

This is to say a word about de-baptism.

Italy is my country, and the UAAR (Union of Atheists, Agnostics and Rationalists) have thought out a way to de-baptize our no-more-religious people. I’m happy to say that already a few thousand have done it!

We actually forced the churches (Catholic in particular, as the mainstream religion here) to accept our requests, by way of the Italian privacy law. The church simply has to accomplish the request, otherwise they would be subject to legal issues!

Formally, they can’t cancel the baptism, as it is a historical fact, says the Italian law. As debatable as that may be (the Sacra Rota tribunal actually can wipe off a wedding), the church will write a note in the baptismal register beside our name, stating our will to renounce membership. This is all they will do, and as for the statistical count we must only hope, since their counting method also ‘works in mysterious ways’.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 8:13 PM

My friend Geoff at Innocent Bystanders debunked the 98% statistic far more thoroughly and effectively than the WaPo.

http://tinyurl.com/7r56a23

Pelosi’s no Catholic, either, no matter what she calls herself.

Jazz on February 16, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Yeppers, well done.

slickwillie2001 on February 16, 2012 at 8:21 PM

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 8:13 PM

A totally sincere question .. why does an atheist really care ?
Just don’t get it, honestly… giving credance to something they don’t even believe in ??
they must somehow think this would be held against them, somehow.. in the afterlife ? What afterlife ?

Ahhhh.. Control! Power ! Manipulation !!
That’s the game.. now I see. ;-)

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 8:23 PM

you sound like the nice envangelicals I know… you are kripptonite to my bad atheist side.

:) And clearly you know what we like to hear.

I understand you, but you are not representative of all christians and despite your attempt, i am still convinced that, that author was an anti atheist bigot…. but thanks for reminding me that not all Christian are like that…

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:51 PM

That’s fine. We can agree to disagree. Despite my passion for my beliefs, I’m actually pretty good at that. I do think people are better off with a relationship with God, but I don’t think arguing will ever convince anyone.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/religion/Voluntary-De-Baptism-Rising-in-Europe-137592823.html

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM

OK, so not an actual ritual. Still interesting. But I guess that’s what happens with a centralized religious body.

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 8:25 PM

depends of the activity they get into. the church owns schools, hospitals, banks, insurance companies, and much more.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 7:57 PM

Right, well, which activities should get the exemption?

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 8:29 PM

A totally sincere question .. why does an atheist really care ?
Just don’t get it, honestly… giving credance to something they don’t even believe in ??
they must somehow think this would be held against them, somehow.. in the afterlife ? What afterlife ?

Ahhhh.. Control! Power ! Manipulation !!
That’s the game.. now I see. ;-)

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 8:23 PM

lets see, when the church and the pope, rails against the evils of secularism, contraception etc, etc… i might be annoyed enough to seek an official disconnect. its just political posturing in my view. for other atheists it might mean something different.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 8:31 PM

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Yuppers.. with you, all the way, honest. Got it.
Control! Power ! Manipulation !!…. no matter where it’s found is equally as bad. No question there.

pambi on February 16, 2012 at 8:36 PM

Right, well, which activities should get the exemption?

Esthier on February 16, 2012 at 8:29 PM

churches, seminars, and things directly related to religious stuff. if you prefer, activities that get tax exception for being religious.

nathor on February 16, 2012 at 8:37 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3