Ramirez on the American pontiff

posted at 12:15 pm on February 4, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Michael Ramirez’ work at Investors Business Daily is always brilliant, but yesterday’s editorial cartoon may be one of his best ever.  The two-time Pulitzer Prize winner takes on the Church of Government, as my friend John Hinderaker calls it at Power Line, and skewers Barack Obama’s pretensions of being a faith leader while shredding the Constitution — in the cartoon, literally.  Do not miss the details of this work, one of Ramirez’ most richly illustrated entries ever.  Click on the image if you need a closer look:

Michael Gerson wrote earlier this week that Obama has declared war on religion, and has betrayed those who sought to work with him:

The implications of Obama’s choice will take years to sort through. The immediate impact can be measured on three men:

Consider Catholicism’s most prominent academic leader, the Rev. John Jenkins, president of Notre Dame. Jenkins took a serious risk in sponsoring Obama’s 2009 honorary degree and commencement address — which promised a “sensible” approach to the conscience clause. Jenkins now complains, “This is not the kind of ‘sensible’ approach the president had in mind when he spoke here.” Obama has made Jenkins — and other progressive Catholic allies — look easily duped.

Consider Catholicism’s highest-ranking elected official, Vice President Joe Biden. Biden had encouraged engagement with the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops on conscience rights. Now he will be remembered as the Catholic cover for the violation of Catholic conscience. Betrayal is always an inside job.

Consider Catholicism’s most prominent clerical leader, Cardinal-designate Timothy Dolan, head of the Conference of Catholic Bishops. Dolan had pursued a policy of engagement with the administration. In November 2011, he met face-to-face with Obama, who was earnestly reassuring on conscience protections. On Jan. 20, during a less-cordial phone conversation, Obama informed Dolan that no substantial concession had been made. How can Dolan make the argument for engagement now?

The implications of Obama’s power grab go further than contraception and will provoke opposition beyond Catholicism. Christian colleges and universities of various denominations will resist providing insurance coverage for abortifacients. And the astounding ambition of this federal precedent will soon be apparent to every religious institution. Obama is claiming the executive authority to determine which missions of believers are religious and which are not — and then to aggressively regulate institutions the government declares to be secular. It is a view of religious liberty so narrow and privatized that it barely covers the space between a believer’s ears.

He wants, in short, to be the Pope of America.  And that’s a strange arrogance to display in an election year.

Also, be sure to check out Ramirez’ terrific collection of his works: Everyone Has the Right to My Opinion, which covers the entire breadth of Ramirez’ career, and it gives fascinating look at political history.  Read my review here, and watch my interviews with Ramirez here and here.  And don’t forget to check out the entire Investors.com site, which has now incorporated all of the former IBD Editorials, while individual investors still exist.


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This site loves to incite for the Enemy, and post things that will arose the ire of those that hate conservatism – while mocking the aspects of conservatism that they feel “superior” to.

Why hasn’t this site posted this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-military-is-now-telling-catholic-chaplains-can-and-cant-say-about-obama-administration-2012-2

williamg on February 4, 2012 at 2:23 PM

Abortion is the most important sacrament of the left/liberals…
-
I’m now at the point where I hope they abort themselves out of the gene pool. The problem is that they are attempting to foist this aBominous and evil rite on my grand kids.
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I for one fully expect that the end result of the mandates and full government control of education and healthcare will be bus trips from the classroom to the abortion clinic… with no parental notification allowed. Parents will be violating a federal law if they so much as ask about it…
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Ramirez is dead on… and this is much bigger than Obama. Barry is the current puke in the front row of the vile baby killer goon squad… That is all.
-

RalphyBoy on February 4, 2012 at 2:24 PM

When he spoke at Notre Dame is when he demanded that all the religious iconography present in the hall (i.e. crosses, crucifixes, etc) be covered up for the cameras.

aquaviva on February 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM

It was Georgetown University; in Washington, DC.

Solaratov on February 4, 2012 at 2:30 PM

I admit that I don’t understand or agree with the Catholic Church’s stance against contraception at all, but Obama needs to quit with the clear sense that he can simply shove whatever he wants down people’s throats whether they like it or not.

This is a dictator in training, my friends. These are not the actions of a person that should be in power.

Midas on February 4, 2012 at 2:31 PM

I was on HA back during the the whole ND thing, as that I am a 67 alum. I took them out of my will and made numerous phone calls and wrote numerous letters. Jenkins was told what an abortion lover snake this POS was and is. And with the number of Chicago big money people that are on the board,,well you figure it out. The Catholic Church has sold itself to the devil and has no one to blame but themselves. Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy, Biden, etc should all have been excommunicated due to their public displays of anti catholic rhetoric and actions.. The cold civil war will turn hot ,,,,,that is a fact.

retiredeagle on February 4, 2012 at 2:32 PM

This is a dictator in training, my friends. These are not the actions of a person that should be in power.

Midas on February 4, 2012 at 2:31 PM

If he does this while running for re-election, imagine what he’ll do in his second term, when he doesn’t care about being re-elected.

neuquenguy on February 4, 2012 at 2:36 PM

Pappy Obama!

ted c on February 4, 2012 at 2:38 PM

Pardon me?

Trafalgar on February 4, 2012 at 2:08 PM

QFT: Quoted for truth–I’m agreeing with you :)

ghostwriter on February 4, 2012 at 2:40 PM

But it must be pointed out that this was not without the protest, outrage and campaigns of many,many good Catholic individuals, groups, and clergy, including Jenkins’ own bishop.

neuquenguy on February 4, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Which only makes it worse,as far as I’m concerned, because they ignored sound advice and warnings.

Now, that I think about it, they really should tender their resignations.

ghostwriter on February 4, 2012 at 2:42 PM

The Catholic Church has sold itself to the devil and has no one to blame but themselves.
retiredeagle on February 4, 2012 at 2:32 PM

I know it seems that way when you look at the example of some public catholic figures, including some in the clergy, but the church has survived for 2000 years, kings and Popes have come and gone and She still stands, not Obama, Pelosi, Biden, or even a bunch of misguided bishops will bring her down, they are not the church, they are fallible humans with a role to play which is like a grain of sand in the history of the church.

neuquenguy on February 4, 2012 at 2:43 PM

ghostwriter on February 4, 2012 at 2:40 PM

Ah! Thank you!

Trafalgar on February 4, 2012 at 2:45 PM

Now, that I think about it, they really should tender their resignations.

ghostwriter on February 4, 2012 at 2:42 PM

I am with you on that.

neuquenguy on February 4, 2012 at 2:45 PM

as an atheist I think they will get nothing. however, the failure of using contraception will lead to women committing abortion even if abortion was illegal.
aren’t you incensed at the “killing of millions of innocent babies” that goes on today? the best way to avoid this tragedy is trough contraception. so, as a prolifer, you should support it!

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 1:26 PM

like many Atheists you are narrow minded and self centered. YOU think contraception is better so it’s fine to force you views on others. This isn’t about the contraception stance of the Catholic church being right or wrong, or weather you agree them or not. It’s about their freedom to practice their religion. I don’t agree with them, but I’m not arrogant enough to think it’s ok for the government force them to go against their religious beliefs just because I don’t share the same beliefs.

Take your self out of this equation. You’re Atheism isn’t relevant here. You are not the center of the universe. The Catholic church believes X is wrong and against their religion. The government is forcing them to do X anyway. Religious freedom very important and worth fighting for.

Are Atheists just so narrow minded that they just automatically go against anything dealing with religion? Because it seems to me that Religious freedom should be something Atheists should actually fight FOR.

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Are Atheists just so narrow minded that they just automatically go against anything dealing with religion? Because it seems to me that Religious freedom should be something Atheists should actually fight FOR.

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Atheists don’t have a monopoly on douchebaggery. Neither do Catholics or religious individuals of any stripe. But I’d swear that douchebags are over-represented among the ranks of atheists; it sure seems like it to me.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Atheists don’t have a monopoly on douchebaggery. Neither do Catholics or religious individuals of any stripe. But I’d swear that douchebags are over-represented among the ranks of atheists; it sure seems like it to me.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Yep, it sure seems that way.

ghostwriter on February 4, 2012 at 2:55 PM

You are a product of your society. I wouldn’t expect you to understand even though all the evidence of the Church’s wisdom is in full display.

quiz1 on February 4, 2012 at 2:14 PM

church wisdom gave us 1000 years of dark ages. historically, the church is about dogma, not wisdom.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM

The powers that be are behind Mr. Obama, to the degree that he mainlines Preparation H to keep his rectum from stretching too far.

LizardLips on February 4, 2012 at 2:59 PM

church wisdom gave us 1000 years of dark ages. historically, the church is about dogma, not wisdom.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Wrong on all counts.

ghostwriter on February 4, 2012 at 2:59 PM

church wisdom gave us 1000 years of dark ages. historically, the church is about dogma, not wisdom.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM

But we’re not debating the church’s wisdom here. We’re debating if the church and its members should be able to follow their respective consciences. You are clearly arguing against that from the far weaker position.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 3:01 PM

Atheists don’t have a monopoly on douchebaggery. Neither do Catholics or religious individuals of any stripe. But I’d swear that douchebags are over-represented among the ranks of atheists; it sure seems like it to me.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 2:53 PM

I couldn’t agree more. They area hateful and pompous bunch.

And I’m not a religious person at all. I just respect people and their religious freedom. Just because I don’t hold the same beliefs doesn’t mean I have to fight AGAINST those beliefs.

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:04 PM

Humanists and secularists of all stripes seem to think that removing or otherwise reducing religious influences from society will not have negative consequences.

Cleombrotus on February 4, 2012 at 3:04 PM

like many Atheists you are narrow minded and self centered. YOU think contraception is better so it’s fine to force you views on others. This isn’t about the contraception stance of the Catholic church being right or wrong, or weather you agree them or not. It’s about their freedom to practice their religion. I don’t agree with them, but I’m not arrogant enough to think it’s ok for the government force them to go against their religious beliefs just because I don’t share the same beliefs.

very well, but if they want public money to help fund their health care organizations that have little to do with religion, then its in the goverment power to demand contraception. what i am against is that our tax money is even given to them, which makes this intrusion possible.

Take your self out of this equation. You’re Atheism isn’t relevant here. You are not the center of the universe. The Catholic church believes X is wrong and against their religion. The government is forcing them to do X anyway. Religious freedom very important and worth fighting for.

no one is forcing catholics to use contraception.

Are Atheistsreligionists just so narrow minded that they just automatically go against anything dealing with religionsecularism? Because it seems to me that Religious freedomsecularism should be something Atheistsreligionists should actually fight FOR.

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 2:48 PM

there, fixed.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:07 PM

But we’re not debating the church’s wisdom here. We’re debating if the church and its members should be able to follow their respective consciences. You are clearly arguing against that from the far weaker position.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 3:01 PM

are they forced to use contraception?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM

Humanists christians and secularists religionists of all stripes seem to think that removing or otherwise reducing religioussecularist influences from society will not have negative consequences.

Cleombrotus on February 4, 2012 at 3:04 PM

there, fixed.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:11 PM

church wisdom gave us 1000 years of dark ages. historically, the church is about dogma, not wisdom.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Nathor, you might want to read a little bit of history before making statements like this, specially the history of philosophy and science.
Nevertheless, many posters here have, in love, engaged you thoughtfully and provided you with a wealth of wisdom and knowledge regarding the subjects under discussion. Wisdom and knowledge which is backed by two thousand years of study and reflection by thousands of the greatest minds this world has ever seen. I realize all this is unlikely to make any kind of impact at this point in your life, but perhaps you can tack it away in some corner of your mind, where I am hopeful some day will be useful to you in some way.
Peace

neuquenguy on February 4, 2012 at 3:12 PM

church wisdom gave us 1000 years of dark ages. historically, the church is about dogma, not wisdom.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Wrong on all counts.

ghostwriter on February 4, 2012 at 2:59 PM

was not the church completely dominant culturally during the dark ages?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:14 PM

are they forced to use contraception?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM

They will be forced to pay for it whether they use it or not. That’s how our modern incarnation of “insurance” works.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 3:17 PM

The left have lost the plot. It is more important to sustain funding from Komen to Planned Parenthood than to have the $2 billion Komen has spent on breast cancer research enhanced in the coming years. The abortion (it’s only 3%…they do not realize that to people who are anti-abortion 3% may as well be 100%) facet of PP is more important than finding a cure for breast cancer, evidently. (So it is known, I am pro-choice…but I do not like the tactics of the McDonalds Abortion Clinic people. Abortions will always be sought and I believe they should be safe but to make abortion the cornerstone of feminism is one of the most disgusting moves I can remember. Remember, exposure was once the accepted solution for unwanted children.)

And now, King Obama declares that religious beliefs CAN be trampled upon by the government. It seems that atheism has been married to the government and now all religions (except Islam) will suffer from government’s all knowing intelligence and disdain of any system of beliefs based on a Creator.

I know people are saying he is dangerous but I think he is more dangerous than we want to believe…thank goodness we have a military that would stop the implementation his type of dictatorship.

allstonian on February 4, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Those at ND were shown to be fools. They had plenty of warning.

I’m not surprised.

ted c on February 4, 2012 at 3:18 PM

When he spoke at Notre Dame is when he demanded that all the religious iconography present in the hall (i.e. crosses, crucifixes, etc) be covered up for the cameras.

aquaviva on February 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM

He did that at Georgetown. I didn’t know he did that at ND.

herm2416 on February 4, 2012 at 3:19 PM

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:07 PM

Almost every point you make is absolutely irrelevant to the subject at hand. You are an Atheist who is against religious freedom. It’s a simple minded stance but we get it.

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:19 PM

church wisdom gave us 1000 years of dark ages. …
nathor on February 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM

.
That is completely and utterly wrong. Churches and monastic orders preserved knowledge and scientific inquiry throughout the Dark Ages of Europe.
.
If your position were to be believed, how would you explain the association of Renaissance scholars, scientists, philosophers, teachers, schools and libraries associated with churches in Europe? How would you explain the fame of “cathedral schools” for the brightest young people all around European parishes?
.
I have to say that your statement is quite ignorant and pretty much casts a negative shadow on all your other opinions and assertions.

ExpressoBold on February 4, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Nathor, you might want to read a little bit of history before making statements like this, specially the history of philosophy and science.

i did read books about the history of philosophy, and the most silly and insufferable part of it was the Christian philosophy. greek philosophy and modern philosophy are much more interesting.
regarding science, i contend it has very little to do with religion, because at is very basis, the scientific method rejects dogma and bad science is produced when dogma creeps in.

Nevertheless, many posters here have, in love, engaged you thoughtfully and provided you with a wealth of wisdom and knowledge regarding the subjects under discussion. Wisdom and knowledge which is backed by two thousand years of study and reflection by thousands of the greatest minds this world has ever seen.

?!?

I realize all this is unlikely to make any kind of impact at this point in your life, but perhaps you can tack it away in some corner of your mind, where I am hopeful some day will be useful to you in some way.
Peace

neuquenguy on February 4, 2012 at 3:12 PM

bye

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:21 PM

are they forced to use contraception?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM

And if we had prayer in school kids wouldn’t be forced to pray. You support prayer in school?

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:23 PM

are they forced to use contraception?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM

You apparently don’t know what the topic of this debate is, and yet you persist in trying to participate. It’s about the trampling on the Constitution and freedom of religion. Take your anti-relgious bias out of it for a second, if you’re able to, and ask yourself if it’d be ok for the government to take away your fredom to spout off here in Hot Air or anyplace else. Would you be ok with that? That right is, after all, in the same Amendment as the right of religious freedom.

Trafalgar on February 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM

They will be forced to pay for it whether they use it or not. That’s how our modern incarnation of “insurance” works.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 3:17 PM

the people that gave money to the church to obtain a health insurance payed for it.
also, thinking about it, why is the church in the business of health insurance any way?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM

i did read books about the history of philosophy, and the most silly and insufferable part of it was the Christian philosophy. greek philosophy and modern philosophy are much more interesting.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:21 PM

Oh, I am so tempted! but this is too easy and I really have to go.

neuquenguy on February 4, 2012 at 3:26 PM

the people that gave money to the church to obtain a health insurance payed for it.
also, thinking about it, why is the church in the business of health insurance any way?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM

Why shouldn’t the church be in the business of health insurance? I’m a lapsed Catholic, and I’d go to the Catholic Aid Society for insurance in a heartbeat because I’m not forced to purchase from them. Again, your opinions on Catholic church teachings are irrelevant to the subject matter of this thread, which is “should the government be able to force Catholic individuals and church leaders to violate their respective consciences?” If you find the answer to that question to be “yes,” at least be honest about it.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 3:27 PM

That is completely and utterly wrong. Churches and monastic orders preserved knowledge and scientific inquiry throughout the Dark Ages of Europe.

ahh, you better know your history better, because it was the church itself that demanded that that all secular knowledge was to be destroyed and controlled by their organization. dont make me post all those horrible things that happened in the 4th and 5th century under the reign of Christian emperors like Theodosius regarding the destruction of secular knowledge to which the church is directly responsible.

.
If your position were to be believed, how would you explain the association of Renaissance scholars, scientists, philosophers, teachers, schools and libraries associated with churches in Europe? How would you explain the fame of “cathedral schools” for the brightest young people all around European parishes?

in a world where all knowledge was under the church dictate, its compressible that dissenting though would have to come from it, because there was no literary though anywhere else.

.
I have to say that your statement is quite ignorant and pretty much casts a negative shadow on all your other opinions and assertions.

ExpressoBold on February 4, 2012 at 3:20 PM

yes, one of the reason I am an atheist is because of the history of the church. i dont deny it.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:32 PM

I have to say that your statement is quite ignorant and pretty much casts a negative shadow on all your other opinions and assertions.

ExpressoBold on February 4, 2012 at 3:20 PM

There are simpleminded atheists who can’t think any deeper than “religious bad!” No amount of facts will change that. It’s like their belief system is so fragile that they dare not ever side with religion. I find their reasoning to be mostly emotion based even though they self righteously claim to be the epitome of scientific reasoning.

These are the same people who rail against dogma.

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:33 PM

And if we had prayer in school kids wouldn’t be forced to pray. You support prayer in school?

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:23 PM

are kids forbidden of praying in schools today?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:35 PM

also, thinking about it, why is the church in the business of health insurance any way?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM

Because the Catholic Church in the United States employees over one million people, between the ordained, religious, hospital workers and school teachers, etc. Are you really this dense or is it an act?

Trafalgar on February 4, 2012 at 3:37 PM

are kids forbidden of praying in schools today?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Will the Catholic church be forbidden from choosing not to pay for contraception?

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:38 PM

employees s/b employs

Trafalgar on February 4, 2012 at 3:40 PM

are kids forbidden of praying in schools today?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Will employees of the Catholic church be forbidden from seeking insurance that covers contraception if they want?

Will employees of the Catholic church be forbidden from using contraception if the church doesn’t pay for it?

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:40 PM

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR’S GOODS.

disa on February 4, 2012 at 3:50 PM

also, thinking about it, why is the church government in the business of health insurance any way?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM

FIFY

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:50 PM

yes, one of the reason I am an atheist is because of the history of the church. i dont deny it.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:32 PM

.
Yep. Post all your silly assertions rather than merely threatening to do so. Not one Fiskian response of yours was correct in all its ramifications. BTW, Theodosius was an eastern monarch whose activities affected the Eastern Orthodoxy, not Western Roman catholicism. If you really want to display your narrow-based, pin-headed ignorance, why don’t you regale us with the definition of Dark Ages and the modern redefinition of that monolithic, misunderstood, misappropriated term. It shouldn’t take you more than four or five sentences which, I bet, is the outer limit of the bounty of your knowledge on this subject.
.
It’s interesting that only one sentence of your Fisk-method rebuttal was comprehensible while your final statement was but a whiny shadow of a whine. You are not the second coming of Christopher Hitchens, so get over yourself and if you have real facts to bolster your mere assertions, link them. Otherwise, you are just another ignoramus masquerading as an atheist.

ExpressoBold on February 4, 2012 at 3:52 PM

ExpressoBold on February 4, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Hear, hear! Well played sir.

Trafalgar on February 4, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Are you really this dense or is it an act?

Trafalgar on February 4, 2012 at 3:37 PM

I went around and around with him in his first two threads of garbled typing and thought projection. He really is that dense.

Yoop on February 4, 2012 at 3:57 PM

Big government is the new Religion.

albill on February 4, 2012 at 3:57 PM

Big government is the new Religion.

albill on February 4, 2012 at 3:57 PM

It would certainly seem so. The idea of our dictator-in-the-making being in office for four additional years is too horrifying to even think about. Militias, anyone?

We’ll likely be forced soon to publicly declare, “The federal government is my God and Obama is its prophet.”

Sir Rants-A-Lot on February 4, 2012 at 4:09 PM

church wisdom gave us 1000 years of dark ages. historically, the church is about dogma, not wisdom. nathor on February 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Scholars have largely abandoned the term “dark ages,” which initially referred only to basically the ninth century due to a want of written works.

Protestant polemicists used the term broadly to delegitimize Roman Catholic supremacy in the pre-Reformation era, and secular writers took it up to disparage Christianity in general. But there certainly was no thousand years dark ages attributable to Christianity.

Now Islam, that’s another story…

Akzed on February 4, 2012 at 4:14 PM

The sad part is do we laugh or cry at this…

ChuckTX on February 4, 2012 at 4:16 PM

yes, one of the reason I am an atheist is because of the history of the church. i dont deny it. nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Which Church history works have you read? The History of the Church, by Bede? Annales Ecclesiastici, by Baronius? Or are you really merely a habitue of atheist web sites?

Akzed on February 4, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Thanks for the conversation folks. I’m off to Mass. Nathor, I’ll pray that God finds you soon.

Trafalgar on February 4, 2012 at 4:19 PM

also, thinking about it, why is the church government in the business of health insurance any way?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM

FIFY

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 3:50 PM

+1000
Religious freedom argument or not, the idea of a bunch of unaccountable bureaucrats (and their lobbyist pals) in Washington telling me and my insurance company what services I have to offer/buy is repugnant…especially so when it comes to health matters and voluntary activity.

The religious freedom infringement here only shows how far of its rocker this nation has flung itself.

Cloture on February 4, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Obama has made Jenkins — and other progressive Catholic allies — look easily duped

Because they were easily duped?

tom on February 4, 2012 at 2:12 PM on conception

But it must be pointed out that this was not without the protest, outrage and campaigns of many,many good Catholic individuals, groups, and clergy, including Jenkins’ own bishop.

neuquenguy on February 4, 2012 at 2:15 PM

I’m not interested in defending catholicism or Catholic doctrine on contr.aceptives. But Ed mentioned progressive Catholics, who wanted to believe and were easily duped.

I don’t have to agree with the doctrine to see that Obama is trampling religious freedom in pursuit of government power.

tom on February 4, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Obooba’s next pastor?

Akzed on February 4, 2012 at 4:44 PM

church wisdom gave us 1000 years of dark ages. historically, the church is about dogma, not wisdom.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Uh – dear history “buff”, who is ignorant of history:

Church Wisdom gave us The Renaissance.

TYRANNY gave us “The Dark Ages”

The CHURCH preserved the Wisdom while The Tyrants wailed.

williamg on February 4, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Which Church history works have you read? The History of the Church, by Bede? Annales Ecclesiastici, by Baronius? Or are you really merely a habitue of atheist web sites?

Akzed on February 4, 2012 at 4:18 PM

have you read those books? there were written long time ago by biased people. for example, Annales Ecclesiastici was a counter piece against Historia Ecclesiae Christi of luther.
but I have been influenced by gibbons “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 4:55 PM

He wants, in short, to be the Pope of America. And that’s a strange arrogance to display in an election year.

It’s because he’s insane. Some kind of narcissistic megalomaniac.

Alana on February 4, 2012 at 4:59 PM

Uh – dear history “buff”, who is ignorant of history:

Church Wisdom gave us The Renaissance.

TYRANNY gave us “The Dark Ages”

The CHURCH preserved the Wisdom while The Tyrants wailed.

williamg on February 4, 2012 at 4:45 PM

for 1000 year the tyrants were Christians, advised but the high hierarchies of the church and presiding a system where the church had a considerable power and a near monopoly on human knowledge. you may fool yourself but you cant deny the above has historic fact.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 5:00 PM

for 1000 year the tyrants were Christians, advised but the high hierarchies of the church and presiding a system where the church had a considerable power and a near monopoly on human knowledge. you may fool yourself but you cant deny the above has historic fact.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 5:00 PM

It’s funny that religious freedom put an end to the tyranny of the church. You know, that thing you are fighting against.

But what the hell is your point? This isn’t about the Catholic church being right of wrong. It’s about their freedom for practice their religion. Why is this going over your head? It’s like you’re desperately trying not to get the point.

yes, one of the reason I am an atheist is because of the history of the church. i dont deny it.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:32 PM

That’s just silly logical disconnect. Kinda like someone saying one reason they’re a Catholic is because of Pol Pot.

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 5:34 PM

Which only makes it worse,as far as I’m concerned, because they ignored sound advice and warnings.

Now, that I think about it, they really should tender their resignations.

ghostwriter on February 4, 2012 at 2:42 PM

We Catholics tend to forgive the sinner even as we hate the sin.

Jenkins, I’m betting, is kneeling nightly and saying “mea culpa” over and over.

Let’s not forget the American bishops as a whole were in favor of Obamacare. They need to be doing a few Acts of Contrition too, as they come to the realization that asking Caesar to do what you should be doing privately never works out well.

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/catholic-bishops-lobby-for-obamacare-amnesty-for-illegals/

unclesmrgol on February 4, 2012 at 5:39 PM

for 1000 year the tyrants were Christians, advised but the high hierarchies of the church and presiding a system where the church had a considerable power and a near monopoly on human knowledge. you may fool yourself but you cant deny the above has historic fact.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Hmm. A near monopoly on human knowledge. You atheists have a bit of catching up to do.

unclesmrgol on February 4, 2012 at 6:06 PM

The First Islamist goes after the Catholics. I’m shocked, shocked!
Shocked that the Catholics were so easily duped by a false deity.

chickasaw42 on February 4, 2012 at 6:07 PM

What makes anyone think that this dictstor will allow himself to be limited to 2 terms?

DWoDiego on February 4, 2012 at 6:19 PM

“The problem is that the way Bush has done it in the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion from the first 42 presidents. No. 43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome. So we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back. $30,000 for every man, woman, and child. That’s irresponsible, that’s unpatriotic.”

- Democratic Presidential nominee, Barack Obama, 3 July 2008

“The problem is that the way Obama has done it in the last 1,109 days is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $10,628,881,485,510.23 from the first 43 presidents. No. 44 added $4,703,901,070,937.52 by his lonesome. So we now have over $15,330,778,119,850.60 of debt that we are going to have to pay back. $49,132.90 for every man, woman, and child. That’s irresponsible, that’s unpatriotic.”

- Moi, 3 February 2012

Resist We Much on February 4, 2012 at 6:35 PM

Hmm. A near monopoly on human knowledge. You atheists have a bit of catching up to do.

unclesmrgol on February 4, 2012 at 6:06 PM

we already catched up, 1500 year after Constantine and Theodosius :(

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 6:35 PM

have you read those books? there were written long time ago by biased people. for example, Annales Ecclesiastici was a counter piece against Historia Ecclesiae Christi of luther.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Luther did not write it. But the quick glance you gave the

wikipedia article

might make you think so.

HeIsSailing on February 4, 2012 at 6:57 PM

YIKES. Lets try that wikipedia article again.

HeIsSailing on February 4, 2012 at 6:58 PM

That may be the best political cartoon I’ve ever laid eyes on.

WannabeAnglican on February 4, 2012 at 7:00 PM

Luther did not write it. But the quick glance you gave the

wikipedia article

might make you think so.

HeIsSailing on February 4, 2012 at 6:57 PM

so what? why is this book important?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 7:03 PM

HeIsSailing on February 4, 2012 at 6:57 PM

damn… that one burned

Ampersand on February 4, 2012 at 7:03 PM

He Ain’t St. Levi, He’s His Brother’s Tax Collector … What Jesus Really Thought About Taxes

Resist We Much on February 4, 2012 at 6:35 PM

Awesome post, although as an unchurched Christian it pains me that an atheist understands the bible better than many churchgoers seem to.

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 7:17 PM

gryphon202 on February 4, 2012 at 7:17 PM

Thanks. :-)

Resist We Much on February 4, 2012 at 7:40 PM

A pity the contraception president didn’t have a mother who followed his precept.

profitsbeard on February 4, 2012 at 8:24 PM

we already catched up, 1500 year after Constantine and Theodosius :(

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 6:35 PM

You catched [sic] up? Amazing — what’s your version of the Ten Commandments?

unclesmrgol on February 4, 2012 at 8:35 PM

You catched [sic] up? Amazing — what’s your version of the Ten Commandments?

unclesmrgol on February 4, 2012 at 8:35 PM

the golden rule.

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 9:27 PM

was not the church completely dominant culturally during the dark ages?

nathor on February 4, 2012 at 3:14 PM

You are blatantly ignorant and prejudiced. It was during the last stages of the Roman Empire that serfdom started to develop. The Romans immobilized their population (stopped their people from moving around) because they were running away rather than pay high taxes. The huge growth of the Roman bureaucracy and many civil wars had resulted in a tax burden too big for the Roman Empire to handle.

After Rome fell (barbarian invasions, too much government, not enough money), feudalism developed in Europe. The Catholic Church took it upon itself to protect and preserve whatever knowledge remained. Monks spent generations hand copying manuscripts to kept alive ancient knowledge.

The reason for the darkness of the “Dark Ages” was a failed political and economic system. It was not the Catholic Church that caused the failure of the Roman Empire or created feudalism. The Catholic Church did what they could to keep knowledge and hope alive.

BTW, I am not Catholic, nor do I care for the Catholic Church. I do however despise ignorant and prejudiced atheists like yourself.

Gladtobehere on February 5, 2012 at 1:21 AM

very well, but if they want public money to help fund their health care organizations that have little to do with religion, then its in the goverment power to demand contraception.

If you look closely, you’ll see that the “public money” is Medicare and Medicaid for the hospitals and Pell grants for the colleges and universities. That’s it. And for that pittance the government demands the Church sell its soul. What’s interesting is how it all starts disguised as benevolence. But little by little the mask slips away.

writeblock on February 5, 2012 at 7:23 AM

Interesting how stupid Obama really is. This mandate not only makes no political sense, it also makes no legal sense. Government can’t demand religious institutions knuckle under a law that violates religious freedom, no matter how much public money is involved. Federal power ends where first amendment rights begin.

writeblock on February 5, 2012 at 7:51 AM

You are blatantly ignorant and prejudiced. It was during the last stages of the Roman Empire that serfdom started to develop. The Romans immobilized their population (stopped their people from moving around) because they were running away rather than pay high taxes. The huge growth of the Roman bureaucracy and many civil wars had resulted in a tax burden too big for the Roman Empire to handle.

what roman are we talking about here, christian romans or pagan romans?

After Rome fell (barbarian invasions, too much government, not enough money), feudalism developed in Europe. The Catholic Church took it upon itself to protect and preserve whatever knowledge remained. Monks spent generations hand copying manuscripts to kept alive ancient knowledge.

read here

Once the Empire was administered by Christians, public libraries had their Pagan books progressively replaced by Christian books. Christians closed Pagan temples and academies, destroying or scattering their libraries.

The reason for the darkness of the “Dark Ages” was a failed political and economic system. It was not the Catholic Church that caused the failure of the Roman Empire or created feudalism. The Catholic Church did what they could to keep knowledge and hope alive.

from the same link

S Dominic, Burner of Books by P Berruguete, Prado Museum, Madrid. Pedro Berruguete was the court artist of Ferdinand and Isobella. He painted panels for the Dominican convent at Avila, ten of which are now in the Prado. The Dominicans were obviously proud that they burnt books! Click for higher resolution image

With that sort of background, it is hardly surprising that once the church leaders got control of the publication of books, they launched an all out destruction of any literature they did not like. To counter this, modern Christians like to claim that the church fathers cited classical works widely and favourably in their writings, maintained them in their personal libraries, and made attempts to preserve them. More to the point is that the earliest Christian intellectuals were converts brought up in the Pagan schools. Naturally Pagan books would have been the original stock of their libraries, but that is hardly an argument that Christians in general aimed to preserve Pagan books. Arguments like this are intended to fool the gullible and the simple minded.

BTW, I am not Catholic, nor do I care for the Catholic Church. I do however despise ignorant and prejudiced atheists like yourself.

Gladtobehere on February 5, 2012 at 1:21 AM

learn better your history. the early church in the 4 and 5th centuries has many issues that todays apologists try to whitewash.

this notion that monks where in the monasteries saving books while the pagan\secular world self destroys is bogus. it was the christian emperors that persecuted all secular\pagan organizations to the point they could not maintain libraries themselfs.
of course, christians preserved the books that interested them, thus, celsus books were destroyed while christian apologists books are preserved.

nathor on February 5, 2012 at 8:27 AM

“I know it seems that way when you look at the example of some public catholic figures, including some in the clergy, but the church has survived for 2000 years, kings and Popes have come and gone and She still stands, not Obama, Pelosi, Biden, or even a bunch of misguided bishops will bring her down, they are not the church, they are fallible humans with a role to play which is like a grain of sand in the history of the church.”

The church survived in Communist countries by either going underground or acquiescing to the dictates of the regime.

Is this what we want?

Remember, the aim of the left is to remove religion from the masses. What better way to continue the process by forcing the church to deny its precepts or remove itself from any overt interaction with the public or employees.

The Catholic church has allready been removed as an adoption service in one state because the church would not consider gay couples.

davod on February 5, 2012 at 1:38 PM

nathor on February 5, 2012 at 8:27 AM – Stop it. “learn better your history. the early church in the 4 and 5th centuries has many issues that todays apologists try to whitewash.”

Of which group trying to mitigate the good the church has done are you a member.

davod on February 5, 2012 at 1:43 PM

In 1983, by 8-1 vote the USSC ruled in Bob Jones University vs. the United States that sincerely held religious beliefs did not trump public policy of the federal government, namely the ending of racial discrimination, independent of any specific legislation. Since BJU did not accept any Federal funding of any type, the only leveraging tool the government had against the school was the IRS’ revoking of their tax-exempt status as a religious institution.

In 1990 by 6-3 ruling the USSC found that native Americans could be prosecuted for using a prohibited substance, peyote, in their traditional religious exercises. One of our favorite scholars, Antonin Scalia, wrote the decision.

”It may fairly be said that leaving accommodation to the political process will place at a relative disadvantage those religious practices that are not widely engaged in,” Justice Scalia said, ”but that unavoidable consequence of democratic government must be preferred to a system in which each conscience is a law unto itself.”

So the free exercise of religion becomes political, even under the First Amendment.

In September of 2011 a San Juan Capistrano family was fined for hosting a Bible study in their home without getting a permit to host a religious service. If such laws become common, religious persons–or merely those seeking to determine if they should become religious–will be restricted in their choices of places to worship, even to the point of not being allowed to worship–if it involves other people–in their own homes.

It seems to me that the First Amendment can no longer be used to protect an individual’s right to religious liberty. The prevailing all-encompassing law of the land will be whatever the USSC darn well wants it to be, so long as it is consistent with their previous rulings limiting liberty. In this pragmatic sense Obamacare has the capability of displacing the Constitution.

So if we value the Catholics’ right to exercise their conscience (and we certainly do!), we may need to look extra-Constitutionally.

May I suggest: let’s find a point at which the Catholic conscience intersects with Sharia law, and make our stand there. When the government ignores Jews, Mormons, Protestants and finally Catholics, you know they will still listen to the Muslim lobby.

rwenger43 on February 5, 2012 at 2:42 PM

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