US intelligence warns Iran poised to conduct terror attacks in US

posted at 11:00 am on January 31, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

During the debates, Rep. Ron Paul often wonders aloud why the US should fear an Iranian nuclear weapon.  I’d call this a good reason:

U.S. intelligence agencies believe that Iran is prepared to launch terrorist attacks inside the United States in response to perceived threats from America and its allies, the U.S. spy chief said Tuesday.

Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said in prepared testimony that an alleged Iranian plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador in Washington that was uncovered last year reflects an aggressive new willingness within the upper ranks of the Islamist republic to authorize attacks against the United States.

That plot “shows that some Iranian officials — probably including Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei — have changed their calculus and are now more willing to conduct an attack in the United States in response to real or perceived U.S. actions that threaten the regime,” Clapper said in the testimony, which was submitted to the Senate Intelligence Committee in advance of a threat assessment hearing Tuesday. “We are also concerned about Iranian plotting against U.S. or allied interests overseas.”

The assessment signals a potentially dire new direction in the adversarial relationship between the United States and Iran, at a time when there are indications that a covert campaign is already underway to thwart Iran’s alleged ambition to develop a nuclear weapons.

And now that covert campaign takes on a lot more significance.  If Iran develops a nuke, the presumed primary target of such a weapon would be Israel, which could get devastated by such an attack.  An attack on Washington DC simultaneously would decapitate most of our government and military leadership and make it difficult to organize a defense or a response.  However, it would also make it clear that Iran would have been the culprit, and any opposition to a full-scale war on Tehran after conducting such an attack on American soil would dissipate overnight.

Iran knows this, and if they acted in a rational manner, they would not dare to invite such a devastating war on their country.  The problem for us is that Iran’s policy is neither rational or irrational, but non-rational.  The theocratic clique running the show are true believers in the Twelfth Imam and the need for a conflagration to produce him, and the promised result of Islamic rule throughout the world.  Starting a war with the US won’t bother them as they believe that (a) the Muslim world will find itself in such a conflict anyway, and/or (b) they can hasten the arrival of the mahdi by kicking one off.  If they see their position threatened in Iran, they may even accelerate those plans before they lose the chance to put them into action.

Even without the nuclear aspect to the threat, though, this report should make clear to everyone that Iran’s mullahcracy has been at war with us ever since it took power in 1979.  Sometimes they have been more effective at it than others, but they have conducted a low-level war against the US that Americans are loath to acknowledge.  Fortunately, our intelligence services have taken a more practical look at Iran than they did in 2007, when they produced a thoroughly political and widely discredited NIE that claimed Iran wasn’t working on nuclear weapons at all as a means to curb George Bush from acting against the Iranian threat.  What’s changed since 2007?  Hmmmm …..


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I know. You’re talking to yourself. No problem, go ahead.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 2:23 PM

Apparently you’re new to the RP threads on HA. We have been putting up with these clowns for months, Galt especially. You can find their comments on the many RP racist newsletters either denying, deflecting, chastising Ed and Allah for posting it, or saying that some forms of racism are OK. Galt is not here to have a serious discussion, he’s here to baffle people with BS or shout them down. He likes to cite anonymous or obscure research to back up nonsensical claims that require pretzel logic to arrive at. When I revealed that I am an Iraq War Vet who was blown up by an Iranian shape charge that was planted by an Iranian weapons expert (who was later captured), this didnt sit well with the narrative that Iran is not a threat. to which he eloquently replied, “STFU.” In Galts mind an Iraq War Vet who was blown up by an Iranian bomb planted by an Iranian is not credible on Iran. And as you can see by the previous Galt comment I posted, he is not a fan of the baby killing murdering military either. (They even dragged out the “no blood for oil” meme.) Welcome to the world of the tinfoil hatters. If you doubt what I’m saying just search the Ron Paul threads and see for yourself.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 2:51 PM

Yeah, MC; I notice he never responded to this as well:

What part of THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO IT don’t you understand?

You don’t think we should be prepared for that scenario and work to avert it if indeed this isn’t some cosmic bluff?

Brick wall. Screw it.

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 2:52 PM

By MC, I meant MadCon of course; I forgot there’s another one running loose…

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 2:54 PM

Already brought it up, and he responded by calling me anti-intellectual. He’s increasingly become a scummier and scummier troll as time has gone by.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Still haven’t gotten over ol’ Herb, have ya, MadCon.

Go back over the discussion. You tried discrediting all references to scholarship by bringing up the AGW “scholars” failings.

That is, by definition, anti-intellectual.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 2:54 PM

He’s increasingly become a scummier and scummier troll as time has gone by.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 2:49 PM

How can that be?

Why, just a moment ago he implied that he gave a rat’s ass about good manners. You must be mistaken.

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 2:57 PM

Do you or do you not find the IPCC report on AGW to be credible?

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 2:47 PM

I find it to be debatable, at best.

Just like I find the claim that “Iran’s policy is neither rational or irrational, but non-rational”, to be debatable, at best. At worst, it is outright warmongering, but I’m willing to give Ed the benefit of the doubt.

But the fact that there are very serious scholars of such matters willing to say, in public and in peer-reviewed publications, that such a claim is nonsense certainly makes putting forward such a claim questionable.

At best.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 2:59 PM

This analysis challenges a number of fallacies inherent in these assumptions: the fallacy that deterrence doctrine may be applied equally toward adversaries of fundamentally different cultural, structural, and political features; the fallacy that possession of nuclear weapons dictates, ipso facto, a sense of responsibility and a need to put safeguards in place against unintended use; the non-distinction between bilateral and multilateral deterrence; the disregard of the implications of religion – particularly of Islamic concepts of war – for application of deterrence; and the implications of different paradigms of command and control than those that existed in the Cold War nuclear powers.

SoonerMarine on January 31, 2012 at 3:01 PM

SoonerMarine on January 31, 2012 at 3:01 PM

Source?

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 3:03 PM

There are very serious scholars of any number of subjects who say, write, and publish all sorts of nonsense.

But the fact that there are very serious scholars of such matters willing to say, in public and in peer-reviewed publications, that such a claim is nonsense certainly makes putting forward such a claim questionable.

At best.

Never mind that the Ayatollah Khamenei himself says differently, and the whole of the regime have done back-flips in order to keep their program moving forward at an ever increasing pace despite many “informed” claims to the contrary.

Never mind their increasing efforts at developing more and better missile capabilities.

It’s all nonsense.

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 3:06 PM

Still haven’t gotten over ol’ Herb, have ya, MadCon.

I didn’t say a word about it. However, that you would gloat about yet another period of your reprehensible behavior speaks volumes about the feces that serves as your “character”.

Go back over the discussion. You tried discrediting all references to scholarship by bringing up the AGW “scholars” failings.

That is, by definition, anti-intellectual.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 2:54 PM

No, I cited the empty “consensus” about man-made AGW and its impact to point out that your loose citation of “scholarly opinion” is as empty in relation to proving your claim that Iran is not a threat. That’s not due to any bias on my part against intellectuals. That’s pinpointing an assumed disregard on your part of intellectualism as it pertains to AGW, showing your hypocrisy and double standard.

Now, you believe that through doublespeak you can muddle the comparison. Feel free, f**kstick. Your egotism and conceit give Newt a run for his money, and you have reached true troll status on this website. Not because of your paleocon stance, which others share, but because of your slimy, underhanded, and deceitful tactics that you use to manipulate the conversation, not to mention the outright smears and slander that you fall back on when cornered. You’re a prime example of the illogical combination of intense self-assurance and galling ignorance.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 3:13 PM

Just like I find the claim that “Iran’s policy is neither rational or irrational, but non-rational”, to be debatable, at best.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 2:59 PM

So debatable that you told the person who posed the notion they should be ashamed of themselves, and called the idea irresponsible, untrue, and fearmongering. You’ve got all the integrity and credibility of a sewer rat.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 3:15 PM

Iran is chief sponsor of islamic terrorism today…they have not been and are not rational actors.

jp on January 31, 2012 at 3:16 PM

Welcome to the world of the tinfoil hatters. If you doubt what I’m saying just search the Ron Paul threads and see for yourself.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 2:51 PM

Thanks for the welcome. I’ve been reading all HotAir threads for years before jumping in, but got interested in RP threads in particular when my daughter joined College Libertarians. Paulians do make sense quite often, especially on the matters of finance and economy, but when they gush about RP’s foreign policy my hand itches to slap some sense into them. What I definitely wish if you old timers argue them more on the merits, instead of bashing and name-calling; come SHTF, you may end up on the same side of the barricades.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Iran is chief sponsor of islamic terrorism today…they have not been and are not rational actors.

jp on January 31, 2012 at 3:16 PM

Yes. Also, Iran and her proxies are extending their tentacles further and wider daily, and of no minor consequence, into our own hemisphere on several fronts.

But they’re no threat, of course.

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Ed goes way past pointing out a legitimate concern. He takes a small minority opinion, colored by anti-Islamic bigotry on the part of some in this country, and puts it forward as foreign policy fact.

Substitute “climate” for “foreign policy”, and “capitalism” for “Islamic”, and you have yourself an instant recipe for global warming shill.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Can anyone make sense of this? I mean really. Can we get one instance of “anti-Islamic bigotry” John? Where someone says something false about Islam on HA? One? Please? There may have been one, I just missed it.

Because if someone says that, for instance, Islam requires Muslims to kill non-Muslims who won’t convert or cough up the jizyah, and you call that bigotry, then you’re a bigger dope than I thought.

Akzed on January 31, 2012 at 3:21 PM

You’ve got all the integrity and credibility of a sewer rat. MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 3:15 PM

Hey, what’d sewer rats ever do to you?!

Akzed on January 31, 2012 at 3:25 PM

…come SHTF, you may end up on the same side of the barricades.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:17 PM

If I find myself on the same side of the barricade as a pack of racist, antisemitic, un-American conspiracy goons, then I’ll know I somehow blundered into the wrong side by mistake and adjust accordingly.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:25 PM

Gotta run kids. Be back later.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 3:26 PM

What I definitely wish if you old timers argue them more on the merits, instead of bashing and name-calling; come SHTF, you may end up on the same side of the barricades.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Indeed. I can’t speak for everybody, but I will tell you that if push comes to shove, the libertarians I know will not be the ones you need to keep a loaded gun by the bedside for.

We’re sick of the endless occupations and sicker of the worn-out defenses for them…but if the liberals think we’re going to join the Demoncrat welfare mobs if TSHTF, they’ve got another thing coming.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 3:26 PM

If I find myself on the same side of the barricade as a pack of racist, antisemitic, un-American conspiracy goons, then I’ll know I somehow blundered into the wrong side by mistake and adjust accordingly.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:25 PM

See, not all Paulians are racist, not all Paulians are antisemitic, and almost none of the Paulians are un-American conspiracy goons. You’re not doing your cause any favors by frothing at your mouth like that; argue on the merits if you can.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:30 PM

If I find myself on the same side of the barricade as a pack of racist, antisemitic, un-American conspiracy goons, then I’ll know I somehow blundered into the wrong side by mistake and adjust accordingly.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:25 PM

Well said.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 3:30 PM

See, not all Paulians are racist, not all Paulians are antisemitic, and almost none of the Paulians are un-American conspiracy goons. You’re not doing your cause any favors by frothing at your mouth like that; argue on the merits if you can.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:30 PM

You know, I keep hearing this, and I continue to give the notion the benefit of the doubt, because it’s logical. However, very rational RP fans show up on this site, and of those I’ve met in real life, they range, literally, from advertising for Alex Jones’ website, to the kind of sickening narcissism that JokeGit23 displays, to those that actually believe The Protocols is a legitimate document.

If you’re here to represent this mysterious minority, please, invite more to take the place of the plethora of bats**t nincompoops misrepresenting your candidate.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 3:34 PM

See, not all Paulians are racist, not all Paulians are antisemitic, and almost none of the Paulians are un-American conspiracy goons. You’re not doing your cause any favors by frothing at your mouth like that; argue on the merits if you can.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Argue on the merits, sock puppet? You’ve loaded every comment aimed my way with all kinds of vicious, ad hominem invective. Go pound sand.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:35 PM

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:25 PM

Yeah I bet you would. I can just see it now…

“Oops, I’m sorry, I’m in the wrong place. You see, I don’t like being on the same side of the barricade as people who don’t agree with my idiotic permawar agenda, even though I have 100+ way more pressing things to deal with, including my immediate physical safety. Mind opening the door and letting me out to join the other side?”

“Um, what other side? Like the barbarians who’ve turned into a rioting horde because welfare got cut off?”

“Don’t you talk back to me you horrible awful racist Joo-hating Islam-lover! Open the door right this instant!”

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 3:38 PM

Argue on the merits, sock puppet? You’ve loaded every comment aimed my way with all kinds of vicious, ad hominem invective. Go pound sand.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:35 PM

You started it. Being a non-Christian, I do not respond to a slap by turning the other cheek. I will debate on the merits where possible but I will respond personally to a personal insult, and yes, I will bring a bazooka to a knife fight.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:38 PM

If you’re here to represent this mysterious minority, please, invite more to take the place of the plethora of bats**t nincompoops misrepresenting your candidate.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 3:34 PM

As I mentioned earlier, I’m not a Paulian at all, my older daughter is, and I managed to drill some sense into her so their misguided mush such as “we should talk to Iran” doesn’t penetrate. Most of those who say so never had to deal with a live Muslim, not to speak of an armed one aiming at them.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:43 PM

You started it. Being a non-Christian, I do not respond to a slap by turning the other cheek. I will debate on the merits where possible but I will respond personally to a personal insult, and yes, I will bring a bazooka to a knife fight.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:38 PM

I’m not a very good Christian, sock puppet, and how many times are you going to keep telling us how Israeli you are? Who else on this forum constantly brings up their ethnicity and national origin? No one. So why do you do it? To show that Paulians–even quasi-libertarians such as you claim to be–cannot be antisemitic because you’re a ‘Zionist’ yourself?

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:51 PM

MelonCollie, you really do love your little non-word don’t you?

You surely like typing it. Over and over. Let me see if I can understand your obsessive repetition of the thing; maybe I’ll have to take it up as a pastime.

permawar permawar permawar permawar permawar
permawar permawar permawar permawar permawar
permawar permawar permawar permawar permawar

I’m not gettin’ it.

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 3:51 PM

I can’t believe they are still trying to peddle the Saudi assassination plot lie. What’s worse is that people still buy it.

Of course, now Clapper becomes someone with credibility to his former detractors.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 3:54 PM

See, not all Paulians are racist, not all Paulians are antisemitic, and almost none of the Paulians are un-American conspiracy goons. Y

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Hate to break it to you, but as I said previously we have already established that this is true of our resident trolls Galt, Dante, Pitchforker, Mellon, and a few others. Not all Paulheads, just ours apparently (especially Galt). Like I said, you have some catching up to do. The rest of us have been here putting up with these idiots and their tactics.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Came here late. But on the subject of Iranian terrorists, a few years back there was mention by news services that Hezbollah are some of the elements caught crossing the border from Mexico. Considering that we catch but a small portion of persons crossing, there probably are cells of Hezbollah in the US now , waiting for orders to act.

kenny on January 31, 2012 at 3:56 PM

MelonCollie, you really do love your little non-word don’t you?

You really love your non-arguments, don’t you?

I’m not gettin’ it.

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 3:51 PM

You don’t get much of anything.

Try typing “imashill” instead…and ask your brother to read it to you, reeeeal slow-like.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 3:57 PM

I can’t believe they are still trying to peddle the Saudi assassination plot lie. What’s worse is that people still buy it.

Of course, now Clapper becomes someone with credibility to his former detractors.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 3:54 PM

Right on cue.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 3:58 PM

I can’t believe they are still trying to peddle the Saudi assassination plot lie. What’s worse is that people still buy it.

Of course, now Clapper becomes someone with credibility to his former detractors.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 3:54 PM

‘Dante’ shows up. Color me unsurprised. So how many of you Ron Paul sock farmers are there, really? Two or three, working in shifts?

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:59 PM

kenny on January 31, 2012 at 3:56 PM

The Border Patrol has been finding discarded stuff with Arabic writing on it for years, and the rate of OTMs (Other Than Mexicans) has been increasing.

It’s the new way of terrorism: distract the military and the public with disposable fanatics in the M.E. while sending the real operatives to just walk over the southern border. We still haven’t done jack to stop them; there isn’t even a proper fence for pete’s sake.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 4:01 PM

I’m not a very good Christian, sock puppet, and how many times are you going to keep telling us how Israeli you are? Who else on this forum constantly brings up their ethnicity and national origin? No one. So why do you do it? To show that Paulians–even quasi-libertarians such as you claim to be–cannot be antisemitic because you’re a ‘Zionist’ yourself?

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:51 PM

As you call me “sock puppet”, would you mind if I call you “inbred”? It sure fits.

I am not a Zionist, inbred; not every Jew or Israeli is. You obviously don’t have a clue what the word means, or you wouldn’t call me so. And yes, I had to bring up my nationality to show you the failure of your label-slapping MO. Now go suck on your bottle; it was unfair of me to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 4:01 PM

‘Dante’ shows up. Color me unsurprised. So how many of you Ron Paul sock farmers are there, really? Two or three, working in shifts?

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Just how long are you going to make your cowardly, baseless accusation of sockpuppetry, may I ask?

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 4:02 PM

When I revealed that I am an Iraq War Vet who was blown up by an Iranian shape charge that was planted by an Iranian weapons expert (who was later captured), this didnt sit well with the narrative that Iran is not a threat.

The logic of the situation escapes you.

That happened where? Iraq. Would we have been there and would you have suffered injury if we hadn’t pursued our disastrous foreign policy of interventionism? No.

I don’t think any Americans have been blown up by Iranians within our borders, unless the media is doing a superb job covering it up.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Asking a Ronulan to face reality is like asking a nazi to not hate Jews. It just isn’t going to happen.

Hard Right on January 31, 2012 at 4:08 PM

I am not a Zionist, inbred; not every Jew or Israeli is. You obviously don’t have a clue what the word means, or you wouldn’t call me so. And yes, I had to bring up my nationality to show you the failure of your label-slapping MO. Now go suck on your bottle; it was unfair of me to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 4:01 PM

I knew you’d jump at the word Zionist. It’s like catnip to a Ron Paul true believer. Makes ‘em crazy.

Would it help if I told you I was a Neocon? btw, that constant buzzing sound you can’t shut out? It’s not a swarm of black FEMA helicopters hovering overhead. Trust me.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Thanks for provong my point Dante. Hows things under your bed?

Hard Right on January 31, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Hate to break it to you, but as I said previously we have already established that this is true of our resident trolls Galt, Dante, Pitchforker, Mellon, and a few others. Not all Paulheads, just ours apparently (especially Galt). Like I said, you have some catching up to do. The rest of us have been here putting up with these idiots and their tactics.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 3:56 PM

I did notice that mentioning Iran brings forth a public bathroom wall’s worth of epithets from both sides. But say, if Ron Paul and his cohorts were, by a divine miracle no less, somehow cured of this strange foreign-policy affliction – would you be able to vote for him in the primaries? It would be the newsletters and Alex Jones’s support (I still have to google up who he is, LOL) vs voting for either of the three Big Government dummies.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 4:09 PM

That happened where? Iraq. Would we have been there and would you have suffered injury if we hadn’t pursued our disastrous foreign policy of interventionism? No.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:07 PM

So invading Iraq caused Iran to also invade Iraq and target our soldiers, eh?

The foulness on this post is increasing exponentially, but then, I’ve never seen you provide otherwise.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:12 PM

I knew you’d jump at the word Zionist. It’s like catnip to a Ron Paul true believer. Makes ‘em crazy.

Would it help if I told you I was a Neocon? btw, that constant buzzing sound you can’t shut out? It’s not a swarm of black FEMA helicopters hovering overhead. Trust me.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:08 PM

I chuckled at the helicopter joke first but it’s getting stale after you repeated it a few times.

Now, for your education, “Zionist” is a person who believes that the Jews should live in their own historical state, whatever its borders are. As I currently live in the USA, I’m obviously not a Zionist.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 4:12 PM

MadisonConservative, the ronulans never miss an opportunity to display their hatred of America.

Hard Right on January 31, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Just how long are you going to make your cowardly, baseless accusation of sockpuppetry, may I ask?

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 4:02 PM

As long as you keep responding with the wrong sock. I’ve never once addressed user ‘MellonCollie’ directly in this thread, or referenced user MellonCollie, for that matter. Dumb pseudonym, by the way.

And how is calling a Ron Paul sock a Ron Paul sock cowardly, exactly? Unlike you, I use my real name on here. Anyone can look me up and say ‘hi’ if they like–not that I’m daring anyone with unfriendly intentions to look me up, mind you, but I’m more than willing to say what I think both in person and online.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:20 PM

So invading Iraq caused Iran to also invade Iraq and target our soldiers, eh?

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Ummm….have you not been following events for almost the past nine years? They certainly weren’t targeting them here within our own borders. But if you want to build your straw man on the word “caused” …

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:21 PM

You’re still nuts, I see. Here’s hoping modern medical science comes up with a miracle cure for antisemitic conspiracy delusions before November.
troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 12:40 PM

First time I’ve ever been accused of that. Back during the second Lebanon war and Cast Lead, I got kicked off FB twice for defacing the AJ FB page.
Whatever. These days I keep my wits about me and I’m saying that we gain nothing by underestimating the Iranian leadership or calling them irrational

daddytype on January 31, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Thanks for provong my point Dante. Hows things under your bed?

Hard Right on January 31, 2012 at 4:08 PM

I’m not the one seeing Iranian boogeymen everywhere, nor am I the one creating them like the DOJ did.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Now, for your education, “Zionist” is a person who believes that the Jews should live in their own historical state, whatever its borders are. As I currently live in the USA, I’m obviously not a Zionist.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Since Zionism is a categorical belief and not a street address, you’re not obviously anything.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:25 PM

But if you want to build your straw man on the word “caused” …

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:21 PM

I’ve never seen such a wretched hive of smug, condescending literalists desperate to dodge their own filth as I have when arguing with paleocons.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Anyone can look me up and say ‘hi’ if they like–not that I’m daring anyone with unfriendly intentions to look me up, mind you, but I’m more than willing to say what I think both in person and online.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:20 PM

There’s nothing bad to say of you as a person, at least judging by your website. Airborne Infantry, mighty impressive! Though I have to say, for a prose award winner your insults are awfully uncreative. :)

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 4:26 PM

I’m not the one seeing Iranian boogeymen everywhere, nor am I the one creating them like the DOJ did.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Your Iran boogeymen blew me up in Iraq with an Iranian bomb. The hit our base with Iranian rockets. Tell me again how Iran is not a threat.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Unlike you, I use my real name on here. Anyone can look me up and say ‘hi’ if they like–not that I’m daring anyone with unfriendly intentions to look me up, mind you, but I’m more than willing to say what I think both in person and online.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:20 PM

While I agree with your general outlook, the knocking of anonymity doesn’t prove anything. I remain anonymous solely because my articles and comments could jeopardize my career in this left-wing utopia.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Whatever. These days I keep my wits about me and I’m saying that we gain nothing by underestimating the Iranian leadership or calling them irrational

daddytype on January 31, 2012 at 4:23 PM

You’re the same guy who thinks we needlessly provoked Imperial Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor by denying them much-needed resources for continued conquest and aggression.

If an irrational person such as yourself claims Iranian leadership is rational, they probably aren’t.

My advice? Keep your wits about you harder, tighter.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:30 PM

While I agree with your general outlook, the knocking of anonymity doesn’t prove anything. I remain anonymous solely because my articles and comments could jeopardize my career in this left-wing utopia.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM

It’s a personal choice, one I could make largely because most of my living comes from freelance commercial art work. I’ve taken some grief for it and don’t recommend others do the same. Nothing like a late-night threatening phone call from a total stranger.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:33 PM

You’re the same guy who thinks we needlessly provoked Imperial Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor by denying them much-needed resources for continued conquest and aggression.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:30 PM

I question the values of anyone who actually makes this argument. If a refusal to sell oil to an imperial nation that, among other things, engaged in one of the bloodiest episodes of the 20th century, counts as provocation deserving of military assault…is there anything America can do that’s justifiable?

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Your Iran boogeymen blew me up in Iraq with an Iranian bomb. The hit our base with Iranian rockets. Tell me again how Iran is not a threat.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Maybe you should go back and read my post above.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Since Zionism is a categorical belief and not a street address, you’re not obviously anything.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:25 PM

I moved out of Israel after a decade of living there. Would I do so if I were a Zionist? Would I be a good Zionist if I hadn’t practiced my own belief? When you’re trying to use a dog-whistle effect, at least use the correct whistle. :)

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 4:34 PM

I remain anonymous solely because my articles and comments could jeopardize my career in this left-wing utopia.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM

I’ve been told a few times that, as a conservative, I can forget about ever getting a teaching job in Wisconsin. I’m way too public.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:35 PM

I’ve never seen such a wretched hive of smug, condescending literalists desperate to dodge their own filth as I have when arguing with paleocons.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Dodge? What am I dodging?

It’s a fact that if we did not have an interventionist foreign policy, we would not have been in Iraq. If we weren’t in Iraq, Logboy would not have been blown up. The number of soldiers and civilians within our own borders blown up by Iranian roadside devices is exactly 0.

It’s pretty straightforward.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Though I have to say, for a prose award winner your insults are awfully uncreative. :)

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Creativity in that regard is somewhat constrained by terms of use–which is a good thing, by the way. I have a sarcasm dial set to 11, and that doesn’t make for a persuasive argument.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:36 PM

Maybe you should go back and read my post above.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Is this the setup for you falling back on your tired old shtick of calling me “dishonest?” I know how much you like doing that.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:36 PM

permawar

Still not doing anything for me.

I must be doing it wrong.

hillbillyjim on January 31, 2012 at 4:38 PM

It’s a fact that if we did not have an interventionist foreign policy, we would not have been in Iraq. If we weren’t in Iraq, Logboy would not have been blown up. The number of soldiers and civilians within our own borders blown up by Iranian roadside devices is exactly 0.

It’s pretty straightforward.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Thats the exact same setup used last time when the bots dragged out the “no blood for oil” meme. Your argument is old and tired and does not work in the face of the evidence. Nice try.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:38 PM

Dumb pseudonym, by the way.

It’s a play on the word “melancholy”. Sorry I can’t provide a hover-over translation in DumbAssian for your benefit, the HTML code isn’t quite that complicated.

And how is calling a Ron Paul sock a Ron Paul sock cowardly, exactly?

Well, okay, more like idiotic.

Unlike you, I use my real name on here.

Oh, doesn’t that make you special? Actually it does…as in special-ed, because that’s a bad idea.

Anyone can look me up and say ‘hi’ if they like–not that I’m daring anyone with unfriendly intentions to look me up, mind you,

Then be thankful that God looks out for fools.

but I’m more than willing to say what I think both in person and online.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:20 PM

So am I. But my parents raised me to be smarter than to post my RL name where ANYONE (not just members of a particular site) could possibly see it.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 4:38 PM

Can’t be true. Everybody knows the real threats are those homegrown rednecks militia types out shooting cans in the woods. Or old white men in wheelchairs and old white women wearing depends.

JellyToast on January 31, 2012 at 4:40 PM

I’ve been told a few times that, as a conservative, I can forget about ever getting a teaching job in Wisconsin. I’m way too public.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:35 PM

I would tend to agree, depending on the campus you applied to. I was surprised to find a fair few reasonable teachers at UW-Platteville that, while not conservative, were far from the raving lunatics that pollute most other colleges. However, in the place of the lunatics was a bevy of incompetents who, thanks to their inabilities to:

1. Stay in the classroom without throwing a tantrum, yelling at the class, and walking out
2. Offer any assistance to students who come to their offices or call them during their office hours
3. Show up to class(one literally missed half of our classes)

…cost me unnecessary extra time making up for their classes I had no choice but to drop.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:40 PM

Dodge? What am I dodging?

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:35 PM

The fact that Iran invaded Iraq and targeted our soldiers. Regardless of whether or not you thought the invasion of Iraq was “right”…Iran’s targeting of our soldiers in a country that wasn’t theirs was entirely their prerogative, not ours. Slime like you that blame us for such circumstances never cease to disgust me.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:42 PM

a full-scale war

If you mean this in the only sensible way it might possibly be meant, there would be nothing to declare war upon, within an hour, tops. If you mean some Powell-esque malarky, …

kunegetikos on January 31, 2012 at 4:43 PM

Can’t be true. Everybody knows the real threats are those homegrown rednecks militia types out shooting cans in the woods. Or old white men in wheelchairs and old white women wearing depends.

JellyToast on January 31, 2012 at 4:40 PM

Heh. One of the reasons I left the left was because they kept insisting that rightwingers were psychos who practiced shooting people by shooting defenseless woodland creatures.

I’m serious, I was actually told that. My laughter-filled reply kicked off quite an angry response and it went downhill from there.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 4:44 PM

I would tend to agree, depending on the campus you applied to. I was surprised to find a fair few reasonable teachers at UW-Platteville that, while not conservative, were far from the raving lunatics that pollute most other colleges. However, in the place of the lunatics was a bevy of incompetents who, thanks to their inabilities to:

1. Stay in the classroom without throwing a tantrum, yelling at the class, and walking out
2. Offer any assistance to students who come to their offices or call them during their office hours
3. Show up to class(one literally missed half of our classes)

…cost me unnecessary extra time making up for their classes I had no choice but to drop.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:40 PM

Stout isnt much better. The conservatives are very hush hush. The libs hated my guts for being outspoken and a Vet of the evil Bush war. I still earned an A in their classes though. I was told by two different HS principals to pretend I’m a democrat if I ever expect to get hired anywhere.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Thats the exact same setup used last time when the bots dragged out the “no blood for oil” meme. Your argument is old and tired and does not work in the face of the evidence. Nice try.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:38 PM

So my argument does not work in the face of the evidence, whatever that means. Let’s try it again.

You were blown up in Iraq by an Iranian roadside device.

If you weren’t in Iraq and were within our own borders, you would not have been blown up by an Iranian roadside device.

Do you disagree with this?

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:46 PM

If you weren’t in Iraq and were within our own borders, you would not have been blown up by an Iranian roadside device.

Do you disagree with this?

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:46 PM

If Iran hadn’t planted a roadside device on soil that wasn’t theirs, he would not have been blown up by it. End of story. Enough of the blame game, maggot.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:49 PM

The fact that Iran invaded Iraq and targeted our soldiers. Regardless of whether or not you thought the invasion of Iraq was “right”…Iran’s targeting of our soldiers in a country that wasn’t theirs was entirely their prerogative, not ours. Slime like you that blame us for such circumstances never cease to disgust me.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Yeeeessss, they invaded Iraq and targeted our soldiers.

What part of “if we hadn’t pursued our disastrous foreign policy of interventionism then he wouldn’t have been blown up” escapes you?

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:49 PM

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:49 PM

And now we go with name calling. How predictable.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:51 PM

You’re the same guy who thinks we needlessly provoked Imperial Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor by denying them much-needed resources for continued conquest and aggression.

troyriser_gopftw

You are putting words in my mouth and trying to start a flame war for no reason. I never said ‘needlessly’. The US would have probably had to deal w/imperial Japan eventually but then like now our sanctions pushed them further and faster than we anticipated giving us Perl Harbor.
Are you a liberal trol trying to make conservatives that participate on this talkback seem like retards? Ease up on the gas, son. What I am saying here is that Iran needs to be dealt with cautiously. If, as I suspect, our sanctions are pushing Iran to war with us, we should recognize this situation as such and profit from past lessons.

daddytype on January 31, 2012 at 4:56 PM

So am I. But my parents raised me to be smarter than to post my RL name where ANYONE (not just members of a particular site) could possibly see it.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 4:38 PM

I make and sell fine and commercial art. I write genre novels and literary short stories. While not well-known by any means, my name is my brand and much of my income is derived from name recognition. Insofar as Internet presence is concerned aside from my online portfolio, I show up here and at Ace Of Spades HQ, and–aside from a few gun-related websites–that’s about it.

Based on my web presence, I guess I can be identified as a Republican who likes guns and occasionally paints pretty pictures. The good side? I can’t be trolled.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Yeeeessss, they invaded Iraq and targeted our soldiers.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:49 PM

Are you trying to make yourself a cartoon? Because, so far, you’re constructing one hell of a caricature of the “Blame America First” apologist.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:57 PM

And now we go with name calling. How predictable.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:51 PM

Hey, I wouldn’t have called you a name if you hadn’t carried out your policy of acting like a weasel.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Pretty fortunate timing for Obama that this info is leaked now and Iran is suddenly a threat. What a lucky guy!

ncjetsfan on January 31, 2012 at 4:59 PM

So my argument does not work in the face of the evidence, whatever that means. Let’s try it again.

You were blown up in Iraq by an Iranian roadside device.

If you weren’t in Iraq and were within our own borders, you would not have been blown up by an Iranian roadside device.

Do you disagree with this?

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 4:46 PM

There is a glaring problem with your solution of pulling the military back to the borders (idiotic). Not only will it not keep us safe, but then they wont let us leave!!! I know its true because Ron Paul said so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esp-ruhkZqQ&feature=player_embedded

Weren’t you the one who told me to convert my money to gold and silver and ship it outside the country?

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 5:00 PM

If, as I suspect, our sanctions are pushing Iran to war with us, we should recognize this situation as such and profit from past lessons.

daddytype on January 31, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Past lesson: keep the sanctions on, eventually they’ll attack, after which you can nuke them to end their bulls**t.

Thanks for the tip!

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Ease up on the gas, son. What I am saying here is that Iran needs to be dealt with cautiously. If, as I suspect, our sanctions are pushing Iran to war with us, we should recognize this situation as such and profit from past lessons.

daddytype on January 31, 2012 at 4:56 PM

I didn’t put words into your mouth. You wrote what you wrote–and don’t call me son. I know who my father is. And no, we aren’t pushing Iran to war with us. They’ve been at war with us. Our government has simply deigned to ignore that fact.

And yes, you did state that we–the United States–was responsible for the Pearl Harbor attack. Even the more hardcore Ron Paul supporters were taken aback, and that’s saying something.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 5:02 PM

Sorry Dante, apparently that was Galt.

I need to know these things so I know when and how to be prepared. You seem to have the inside track.

Logboy on December 14, 2011 at 1:31 PM

Something tells me that you couldn’t be prepared with a battalion of boy scouts.

But if you are really interested, keep a portion of your money in gold and silver, and keep a big portion of that outside the country.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 1:48 PM

Apparently martial law will be declared soon.

If the US Military is going to keep me from leaving America what good will it do to have gold and silver in another country? Why not just bury it in my backyard?

Logboy on December 14, 2011 at 1:52 PM

They won’t stop.

You’re a worthless sack of crap, just another mouth to feed in hard times.

My gold, however… that, unlike you, actually has real value.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 4:26 PM

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 5:04 PM

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 5:04 PM

Wow. There’s low, and then there’s rock bottom. I knew JG was way down, but that’s outright offensive. Please know that cowardly punks like that are the exception, not the rule here.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 5:07 PM

My gold, however… that, unlike you, actually has real value.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 4:26 PM

I hoard lead. Lead trumps gold. One can reload lead.

troyriser_gopftw on January 31, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Past lesson: keep the sanctions on, eventually they’ll attack, after which you can nuke them to end their bulls**t.

Thanks for the tip!

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 5:00 PM

If I had assurance that certain people wouldn’t soon find somewhere ELSE that ‘needed’ to be perpetually occupied by the USA…I’d go for it.

I’m sick of the whole d@mned region, quite frankly.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 5:11 PM

My gold, however… that, unlike you, actually has real value.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 4:26 PM

In the first stages of a serious crisis, gold will be demanded by everyone, especially former parasites desperate for another source of income.

After things have calmed down a bit, gold will be a very valuable commodity…but until then it’ll be worthless. Or worse yet become a homing beacon for every looter and gang around.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Substitute Al Qaeda for Iran, and you have the title of a famous presidential daily briefing.

tom on January 31, 2012 at 2:44 PM

And just like then, our internal security is daily breached by illiterate peasants and groping Granny because they’re forbidden to profile…

It looks as though the USA is going to have to learn the hard way that playing “Whack-A-Jihadi” makes a lot of sound and fury but not much security, besides being hopelessly expensive.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 2:51 PM

If you really want ineffective, try ignoring the problem.

tom on January 31, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Wow. There’s low, and then there’s rock bottom. I knew JG was way down, but that’s outright offensive. Please know that cowardly punks like that are the exception, not the rule here.
n
MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 5:07 PM

Its like playing whack-a-mole with the Paulbots. And when they’re shooting blanks you dont need to wear body armor. Forget cable, this is way more entertaining. Its like a sociology experiment with crazies, right at your finger tips.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 5:27 PM

In the first stages of a serious crisis, gold will be demanded by everyone, especially former parasites desperate for another source of income.

After things have calmed down a bit, gold will be a very valuable commodity…but until then it’ll be worthless. Or worse yet become a homing beacon for every looter and gang around.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Um, Melon? Wrong tab bud. This is Hotair, not Prison Planet.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 5:28 PM

Um, Melon? Wrong tab bud. This is Hotair, not Prison Planet.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 5:28 PM

Um, Loghead? That’s reality.

If things go truly south, to the point where civil order degrades, anyone known to have a lot of precious metals might as well paint a bullseye on their shirt if they don’t have a way to defend it.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 5:34 PM

Are you trying to make yourself a cartoon? Because, so far, you’re constructing one hell of a caricature of the “Blame America First” apologist.

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Interesting style you have for having a discussion. Do everything you can to avoid the other side’s point.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 5:37 PM

There is a glaring problem with your solution of pulling the military back to the borders (idiotic). Not only will it not keep us safe, but then they wont let us leave!!! I know its true because Ron Paul said so.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Why didn’t you answer my question?

Let’s try it again.

You were blown up in Iraq by an Iranian roadside device.

If you weren’t in Iraq and were within our own borders, you would not have been blown up by an Iranian roadside device.

Do you disagree with this?

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 5:38 PM

Interesting style you have for having a discussion. Do everything you can to avoid the other side’s point.

Dante on January 31, 2012 at 5:37 PM

The only point you have is the one under your hat. Go back to whatever level of the Inferno you crawled out from and stop cluttering up the thread.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 5:38 PM

Your Iran boogeymen blew me up in Iraq with an Iranian bomb. The hit our base with Iranian rockets. Tell me again how Iran is not a threat.

Logboy on January 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM

When you are on their border, of course they can be a threat.

Tell me, what do you think our DoD and intelligence services would do if China invaded Mexico, conquered and occupied them, placing troops on the Rio Grande, all the while telling us we could be next if we don’t fall into line with Chinese foreign policy. Do you think we might be funding Mexican rebels? Think we might provide them with weapons, including the very best in EFP technology?

Of course we would.

So explain to me again why we should expect Iran to behave any differently. One might even think that they were behaving rationally.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 5:54 PM

And just as I leave my office for home, the discussion reaches the notorious “gold vs lead” point. IMHO, both metals are kinda useless if S really H the F. Gold will only be good if a semblance of order is established and it doesn’t happen to be tyranny, military junta, or gangsterland. As for lead, it will be promptly confiscated (optionally, over your cold dead body) by whatever authority happens to present itself, unless you join said authority or plan to live in the wilds.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 5:55 PM

Um, Loghead? That’s reality.

If things go truly south, to the point where civil order degrades, anyone known to have a lot of precious metals might as well paint a bullseye on their shirt if they don’t have a way to defend it.

MelonCollie on January 31, 2012 at 5:34 PM

Keep a percentage of it overseas. The US Government will always let you leave.

Whether it lets your money leave? That’s a different story.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 5:57 PM

Gold will only be good if a semblance of order is established and it doesn’t happen to be tyranny, military junta, or gangsterland.

Archivarix on January 31, 2012 at 5:55 PM

Gold will always allow you to have an influence. It’s like something preternatural built into humans… they will do stuff for gold, up to and including wielding weapons on your behalf. Have enough gold, and you can be the one to establish order.

JohnGalt23 on January 31, 2012 at 5:59 PM

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