Romney’s business experience a curse?

posted at 9:50 am on January 31, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Republicans often laud private-sector experience as a key quality for chief executives, but Byron York throws a little cold water on the notion in an excellent column for armchair historians today.  In his estimation, neither the GOP nor the Democratic Party have won with a true businessman-as-leader nominee in decades:

The last president elected as a businessman was Herbert Hoover in 1928. “Hoover’s appeal, before his reputation became tarnished by the Depression, was as a problem solver and a solid businessman,” says Princeton University historian Fred Greenstein. “Someone who was not erratic — to the point of being dull.”

Certainly businessmen have tried to win the presidency. Ross Perot ran on his business experience and won 19 percent of the popular vote in 1992. Wall Streeter Wendell Willkie made a strong run against Roosevelt in 1940. But it’s safe to say that running as a businessman has not been a sure-fire route to the White House.

“Business skill and political skill are qualitatively different,” says Steven Hayward, author of the two-volume biography “The Age of Reagan. “They do not transfer well into the other domain.”

However, that’s not exactly a clear analogy to today, either.  York gives short shrift to both Bushes, who combined private-sector experience with varying degrees of public-sector work (the younger Bush only worked in the public sector for less than 15 years combined between two offices).  He also overrates Hoover as a businessman; Hoover certainly did well as a mining engineer, but made more of a name for himself as a relief organizer and humanitarian, and then spent more than a decade in and out of the public sector.  Hoover ran for President in 1920 in one of the GOP’s last brokered conventions (the last was in 1948), losing out early to Warren Harding, and then served as Secretary of Commerce from 1921 until he successfully ran for the Presidency in 1928.

Greg Sargent points to a new poll from WaPo/ABC that bolsters the albatross argument:

If Mitt Romney wins the GOP nomination, as seems increasingly likely, he will have plenty of time to reintroduce himself to national swing voters on his own terms. But in the short term, the evidence is mounting that the bruising GOP primary, and the bipartisan attacks on Romney’s corporate background, low millionaire tax rate, caginess about his tax returns, and his offshoring, are damaging him among the broader electorate.

The Post has just released the first national polling that directly asks about Romney’s corporate past. The results:

Overall, do you have a favorable or unfavorable impression of Romney’s work buying and restructuring companies before he went into politics?

  • Favorable 35
  • Unfavorable 40
  • No opinion 25

Among independents, 36 percent view Romney’s work favorably, versus 37 percent who view it unfavorably. [bullet format added for clarity — Ed]

Interestingly, that problem isn’t alleviated by substituting Newt Gingrich for Romney.  In the same poll snippet linked by Sargent, the survey asked about “Gingrich’s work, since leaving elective office, as a consultant for companies with an interest in federal policymaking,” and found that among all adults (not registered or likely voters), it got a 24/54 favorability rating — far below Romney’s.  It’s also important to note that this poll doesn’t have any information about its sample composition, and given the lengthy history of seriously skewed partisan splits in this series, this may not be the most reliable representation of an actual problem.  It’s worth noting that those leaning Republican like Romney’s experience a lot more than Gingrich’s, 58/24 to 44/40.

In Florida, at least, the news is a lot more sunny about business experience, even for Romney.  This is a poll taken of likely general-election voters in one of the most important swing states for November:

In the battleground state of Florida, a Mason-Dixon poll conducted for the Tampa Times and Miami Herald, showed favorable results for Romney. Nearly half (46 percent) of Florida voters viewed Romney’s business background positively, while just 30 percent negatively.  This is despite lots of scrutiny in the news media about Romney’s record at Bain over the last several weeks.

The numbers suggest that Romney’s work at Bain and his wealth are vulnerabilities, but hardly a silver bullet that will significantly hurt his general election prospects against President Obama.  It’s useful to think about Romney’s vulnerabilities in comparison to other presidential nominees.  Reports on Bill Clinton’s philandering were arguably much more damaging than Romney’s business track record in 1992; his net fav/unfav dropped to negative double-digits in April of that year.   And Ronald Reagan’s outspoken conservatism – including his past opposition to Medicare – was a glaring vulnerability in polls back in 1980.

Like George W. Bush, Romney combines his business experience with at least a short stint as a chief executive in a populous state, regardless of what one thinks of his track record there.  Will Obama make his private-equity experience an issue if Romney wins the nomination?  He’ll certainly try, but after all of the scrutiny and fact-checking done on claims in the GOP fight, it might be old news with few new angles by the time it gets to September.  Meanwhile, we can agree that business success isn’t a be-all, end-all for presidential success, but it won’t be an albatross, either.


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Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Like saying Newt is a communist. Got it.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:03 AM

LOL, I’ve never said that, and I’ve not seen anyone else here say that either.

Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 11:06 AM

I love the new Mittbot spin. Romney will lose but he won’t lose as badly as Newt. YEAY!!

You have it backwards. A strong conservative would bring out people to save senate seats. A RINO will keep people home.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:00 AM

If you support Romney (given the other option) you are a Mittbot?

Whenever anybody asked me here on HA i stated that i believe that Obama will win, and i give Romney a 30% of winning, However i think i have a better chance winning against Obama then Newt has,

Only on the moon colony can Newt be considered a conservative, Yes he did some good for the conservative movement, But he is a stabber in the back as well,

I know one thing about Newt, For the right price you can always count on him to betray you

OrthodoxJew on January 31, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Morning Del D.,

If he’s to count on Romney to pull him over the line, per commenter, no such thing…because Romney is runnund away from Mass.

Schadenfreude on January 31, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Evil and angryed, hypothetical for you; who you going to vote for in November if Romney gets the nomination?

dmann on January 31, 2012 at 11:08 AM

This article nails the two of them, very objectively.

Schadenfreude on January 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Evil and angryed, hypothetical for you; who you going to vote for in November if Romney gets the nomination?

dmann on January 31, 2012 at 11:08 AM

The one Obama will run to the right of.

Schadenfreude on January 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM

The good news we know after 2010 that Obama doesn’t have anything that resembles coat tails :) It would be helpful if the republican nominee had coat tails in November.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:04 AM

A squishy, moderate, RINO centrist will not have coat tails for Republicans. Nobody will be dying to go vote for Romney and while in the voting booth vote for a Republican senator. That’s how coat tails work, people go to vote for the president and also vote for other Ds or Rs (depending on the party of the candidate) while in the voting booth.

Romney’s plan is to get Democrats to vote for him while ignoring conservatives. It’s insane to think that those Democrats coming out to vote for Romney will vote R for senate seats. But that’s what the Mittbots are saying.

The exact opposite will happen. Democrats will vote for Romney AND vote for the Dem senator. Conservatives will stay home and NOT vote for the Republican senate candidate.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Has Mitt ever organized a community? No? Game over.

PBHO 2012

Bishop on January 31, 2012 at 10:10 AM

I just shat a brick.

It’s well known a shortage of mittens led to the great frostbite epidemic of 1973 in Laurence Missouri – directly responsible for the deaths of 2 elderly people and their goldfish.

down with Mittens.

DHChron on January 31, 2012 at 11:12 AM

It is only a curse to the extent that he cannot coherently explain what his companies did and what his role was, and why that is relevent to being POTUS.ajacksonian on January 31, 2012 at 10:55 AM

He had the opportunity in Florida with the Space program. I have heard over, and over again, how Mitt Romney saved the Winter Olympics in Utah….okay Mitt the U.S. Space program is also Iconic and important to Americans. Tell people/voters, how you will treat prioritize the U.S. Space program’s restoration, the same as you did the Winter Olympics. It’s simple, and people can relate it to an accomplishment in his past. Instead he goes into this long spiel like he did with his 59 points plan, which upon people hearing it instantly fell asleep :) There should be a sticker at Romney headquarters that reads “Keep it simple stupid” KISS.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Evil and angryed, hypothetical for you; who you going to vote for in November if Romney gets the nomination?

dmann on January 31, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Maybe Obama maybe 3rd Party, maybe write in Mickey Mouse. I will definitely vote since there are local races that I care about.

I will absolutely, 100% not vote for Romney. No more establishment RINOs.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:12 AM

She, the rich/witch, has it in her pocket.

Brown can forget that one.

Schadenfreude on January 31, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Not so sure, She has plenty of time to go full Coakley on us,

OrthodoxJew on January 31, 2012 at 11:14 AM

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:12 AM

hard core!

I’ll probably vote Mitt

DHChron on January 31, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Whenever anybody asked me here on HA i stated that i believe that Obama will win, and i give Romney a 30% of winning, However i think i have a better chance winning against Obama then Newt has,

Only on the moon colony can Newt be considered a conservative, Yes he did some good for the conservative movement, But he is a stabber in the back as well,

I know one thing about Newt, For the right price you can always count on him to betray you

OrthodoxJew on January 31, 2012 at 11:06 AM

I’m not sure why you have to mention Newt in your answer. Newt is history. The nominee will be Willard. It is what it is. It seems that the reply from Mittens fans is now “yeah he will probably lose but Newt would have lost by more”. You’re probably right. But it’s irrelevant.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Reagan carried 44 states, with independent Anderson in the race.

These two have personalities of horses’ derrieres.

Mitt will not carry Massachussetts.

Schadenfreude on January 31, 2012 at 11:15 AM

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Somehow I’m not surprised.

dmann on January 31, 2012 at 11:16 AM

The nominee will be Willard. It is what it is. It seems that the reply from Mittens fans is now “yeah he will probably lose but Newt would have lost by more”. You’re probably right. But it’s irrelevant.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Don’t start drinking and celebrating, yet.

If you do, you don’t know either of the candidates.

Schadenfreude on January 31, 2012 at 11:16 AM

A curse? Heck I consider it his greatest strength.

gophergirl on January 31, 2012 at 10:02 AM

yep. Watch out about the Hoover canard as the dems are already projecting the notion that repubs are intentionally trying to tank the economy to make Obama look bad. The dems own this precedent and a quick study will show they did everything they could to tie Hoover’s hands as the economy slowed after the crash of 1929. After the election in November of 1932 he tried mightily to get FDR to take more command of the public disourse. Hoover gave FDR a note in a restaurant that had several proposals that he would give FDR credit for if he would introduce them as the press was toxic against Hoover. The dems had done all they could to cut the budget off from Hoover completely.

The March day in 1933 when FDR was inaugerated he was given something along the lines $300 million to spend as he saw fit to sugar the economy. Sound familiar?

Read the Roosevelt Myth by John T. Flynn. Its available on Kindle now for under $5. It is Obama’s script written in 1948.

DanMan on January 31, 2012 at 11:17 AM

LOL, I’ve never said that, and I’ve not seen anyone else here say that either.

Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Come on. Look back to threads about the Bain movie, he was called a Marxist, communist, socialist and every other ist associated with the left.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Don’t start drinking and celebrating, yet.

If you do, you don’t know either of the candidates.

Schadenfreude on January 31, 2012 at 11:16 AM

I’m a realist. The guy with $300M in the bank and the media in the tank usually wins against the guy without $300MN in the bank and no media in the tank.

It’s all moot. Obama will be re-elected by a comfortable margin no matter who the sacrificial R is.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:12 AM

The best way to help the space program is to start paying for private launch capability to various levels of orbit and guarantee tonnage with cost per pound attached. The scientific part of NASA is in the doldrums and needs to be weeded out thoroughly and honed down to a pure science basis…

Basically get the rocket science out of NASA and get a competative prize program up and running to deliver trustworthy, low cost ground to orbit capability with known safety factors and equipment capability hurdles. That worked wonders for the aviation industry and spurred on the development of the rigid body airframe and then culminated in the DC-3 being able to meet the ‘lose one engine and continue to destination’ hurdle for airmail service. The competative prize model with guaranteed contracts for certain amounts is a winner and it works. Unlike all the government overhead and bureaucracy which stifles innovation to get safer and lower cost lift capability plus expand timelines, not decrease them. A non-first past the post system also encourages competition past the prize level… so that you always have people looking to meet capability goals to get certified equipment for getting contract work.

Romney could have hit a New Vision of Space approach… but that takes insight into how such capability can be found and delivered. This cannot be managed from government, but government can set goals and pay for deliverables.

ajacksonian on January 31, 2012 at 11:21 AM

What’s truly sad is the media is untouchable, unaccountable and inaccessible. Look at MSNBC, even with no audience they still survive, like cockroaches. What can we do, how do we fight them?

dmann on January 31, 2012 at 11:25 AM

A curse? No. Indicative of any fiscal conservative preferences? Also, no.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:26 AM

The guy with $300M in the bank and the media in the tank usually wins against the guy without $300MN in the bank and no media in the tank.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:19 AM

I’d say especially when the average voter won’t be able to tell much of a difference between what the two of them. Obama will try to do that, and Romney’s record will make it easy.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Overall, do you have a favorable or unfavorable impression of Romney’s work buying and restructuring companies before he went into politics?

Favorable 35
Unfavorable 40
No opinion 25

This is the real legacy of Newt & his populist buddy Perry.

Shame on them for putting free market capitalism on trial. Truly reprehensible.

sidemeat on January 31, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Romney is the best positioned Republican candidate to win the general election. Is he perfect-no. However, there are those here that claim they are republican but when their candidate does not win the nomination, they do one of three things. 1) Stay home and do not vote (ala McCain 2008), 2) Throw their vote away by voting third party or 3) Vote for Obama as some here have claimed they will do if Romney gets the nod.

Truly pathetic. A party is like a team. we have a slate of ideas that we all support such as Self Reliance, small govt, low taxes, strong defense etc. However some members of our team are immature and when things do not go exactly their way, they take the football and go home.

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Only on the moon colony can Newt be considered a conservative, Yes he did some good for the conservative movement, But he is a stabber in the back as well,

I know one thing about Newt, For the right price you can always count on him to betray you

OrthodoxJew on January 31, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Newt is center-right. Romney is center-left. It’s not that Romney isn’t a “true conservative”, it is that he is, by no accepted definition, a conservative at all.

You say that Newt will betray you for the right price. Romney will betray Republicans just because he can. He won’t need any price.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:32 AM

This is the real legacy of Newt & his populist buddy Perry.

Shame on them for putting free market capitalism on trial. Truly reprehensible.

sidemeat on January 31, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Yeah because Obama would never have thought of using that line of attack. Grow a pair Mittbots. If you can’t effectively counter an attack ad from Perry/Gingrich how the hell do you think you’ll couter attacks from 24/7 smear machine known as the MSM?

So now when Willard loses by 10% in November you already have the blame game set. He didn’t lose because he was the reincarnation of Dole and McCain, he lost because of Newt and Perry.

Lame.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Romney’s plan is to get Democrats to vote for him while ignoring conservatives. It’s insane to think that those Democrats coming out to vote for Romney will vote R for senate seats. But that’s what the Mittbots are saying. angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:10 AM

That goes back to Mitt’s purpose for running for President. Romney has yet to make the case that he’s running for President other than to become President. “PURPOSE” “We are fighting for the soul of America”
Last time I checked the soul of America is neither a corporate raider nor an investment banker”.

Gingrich has picked up on this I believe around the time Cain endorsed him and made stated he was running for President to put the country back on track. I get the feeling Newt is running for President to make history.

I am an Independent. I care about a fiscal conservative agenda being implemented for this country, and backing us away from the financial cliff we are headed for Greece style. Currently we have a financial oligarchy running our government and it’s pretty easy to figure out their vision for this country. Banana Republic.

summary of a collusion between the overweening state and certain favored monopolistic concerns, whereby the profits can be privatized and the debts conveniently socialized, but another term for the same system would be “banana republic”.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:34 AM

This is the real legacy of Newt & his populist buddy Perry.

Shame on them for putting free market capitalism on trial. Truly reprehensible.

sidemeat on January 31, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Hey, I know, maybe maybe people knew and disliked this aspect of Romney’s past all along.

Nah, couldn’t be. Nobody ever thinks for themselves. The only way to form opinions is to model them on talking points.

ElectricPhase on January 31, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Truly pathetic. A party is like a team. we have a slate of ideas that we all support such as Self Reliance, small govt, low taxes, strong defense etc. However some members of our team are immature and when things do not go exactly their way, they take the football and go home.

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:30 AM

The guy who created Obamacare – Lite does not believe in self reliance, small govt or low taxes.

Try again.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Romney will take the GOP right down the tubes to another John McCain-like loss in November if he’s the nominee. Plain and simple.

jfs756 on January 31, 2012 at 11:35 AM

The exact opposite will happen. Democrats will vote for Romney AND vote for the Dem senator. Conservatives will stay home and NOT vote for the Republican senate candidate.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Shame on the so called “conservates’ then for staying home (again!)

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Correction – and made the statement he was running for President to put the country back on track. (para phrasing)

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Newt said it best in his Iowa speech. Romney will manage the decay better than Obama. He won’t reverse course. He’ll just make sure when we fall off the cliff driving at 100 MPH we have our seatbelts fastened.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Shame on them for putting free market capitalism on trial. Truly reprehensible.

sidemeat on January 31, 2012 at 11:29 AM

They didn’t. They put one of the most difficult to defend parts of the free market on trial. Which I don’t agree with, but Romney did much, much worse when he put the free market on trial (e.g., his criticism of any talk of entitlement reform, especially SS) and free speech on trial (bashing lobbyists is easy – it is to free speech what corporate raiders are to the free market – easy to target; but lobbying is a necessary “evil” so that ordinary citizens can pool their resources to seek redress from congress. Otherwise, the only people with influence with be the wealthy).

If you find Gingrich/Romney’s behavior reprehensible, but not Romney’s, you are truly a hypocrite of the worst sort.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Hang in there, Del …
It won’t be you who yells: “Cut me, Mick!”
(chuckle)

We keep getting told if we knew Mitt, like the people who are around all the time do, we would like him….so why doesn’t Mitt be himself? Regular people (voters) might actually relate to him. Right now he’s like the plastic creation of a marketers idea of what a Presidential candidate should look and sound like Aka a Phony. We are living with a media created candidate today how’s that worked out for everyone?
(snip)
Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 10:55 AM

You need to understand the “elders” in the “church” of Mittens:
They’re all a “plastic creation”. Go to an LDS “temple” some time.
Oh wait … No entrada if you aren’t one of them.
Get a grip, people. Read their “book”.

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 31, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Shame on the so called “conservates’ then for staying home (again!)

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Shame on the RNC for giving us Dole/McCain Part Deux. I’d vote for pretty much any of the original GOP candidates. Newt, Perry, Pawlenty, Huntsman. But I will not vote for Romney. That’s a bridge too far for me.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:38 AM

How come you never post this one, angry? Doesn’t fit your Template, right?

O’bama vs. Romney

USA Today/Gallup 1/27 – 1/28 907 RV 48 48 TieDel Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 10:21 AM

This doesn’t look like a WIN to me.

MontanaMmmm on January 31, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Shame on the so called “conservates’ then for staying home (again!)

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Conservatives should be shamed for not voting for a statist? You’re insane.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Evil and angryed, hypothetical for you; who you going to vote for in November if Romney gets the nomination?

dmann on January 31, 2012 at 11:08 AM

I will vote Libertarian, I won’t pull the lever for a progressive. I am with Col West, they can take their show on the road. They should relocate to Western Europe. Their progressive policies are bearing such great fruit for those inhabitants, I am sure they will be welcomed with open arms/

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:39 AM

You need to understand the “elders” in the “church” of Mittens:
They’re all a “plastic creation”. Go to an LDS “temple” some time.
Oh wait … No entrada if you aren’t one of them.
Get a grip, people. Read their “book”.

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 31, 2012 at 11:38 AM

I was flying through SLC a few years ago for bidness. On my last day there I had a few hours to kill before my flight. So I went to the big LDS church downtown. Pretty cool building. I was looking around for tour information, thinking it would be nice to see the inside. I looked, and looked and nothing. So I asked one of the grounds people where can I get a ticket for a tour. Dude looked at me like I just asked where can I buy a ticket for the next space ship to the Gingrich Moon Colony. I was shocked to find out that non-Mormons are now allowed to enter the church.

Even mosques allow infidels to enter on non-holy days.

That is one wacky religion**

** To be fair all religion is wacky but the LDS is wacky on overdrive.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Truly pathetic. A party is like a team. we have a slate of ideas that we all support such as Self Reliance, small govt, low taxes, strong defense etc. However some members of our team are immature and when things do not go exactly their way, they take the football and go home.

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Romney is the one that started and continues to practice scorched earth against his Republican opponents (truly “opponents” to him). He is playing to win, or to take the football and go home.

And your list? WHo is truly pathetic? The guy who doesn’t believe in any of the things on your list (with the possible exception of the strong defense), or the people who won’t vote for the guy who doesn’t agree with anything on the slate? Absurd.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Shame on them for putting free market capitalism on trial. Truly reprehensible.

sidemeat on January 31, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Shame on you for repeating the weak straw man media meme.

Bain Capital does NOT equal Capitalism.

Bain Capital is an equity firm, it is not the Free Market System.

If Bain Capital is the Free Market System, what are all those other companies doing existing? For instance News Corp, that pushed that stupid sound bite are they really part of Bain Capital or are they part of the Free Market?

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:45 AM

McCain = War Hero. Romney = Business experience backed with Romneycare. If Obama creamed McCain, I wonder what hes gonna do to Mittens.

tommy71 on January 31, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Evil and angryed, hypothetical for you; who you going to vote for in November if Romney gets the nomination?

dmann on January 31, 2012 at 11:08 AM

I will vote Libertarian, I won’t pull the lever for a progressive.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Agreed. Let’s look at Gary Johnson v. Mitt Romney. Which of these Republican Governors has a conservative record that promotes individuality and personal responsibility, and which of these Republican Governos has a record of expanding the state and promoting state solutions to all conceivable problems?

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Shame on the RNC for giving us Dole/McCain Part Deux. I’d vote for pretty much any of the original GOP candidates. Newt, Perry, Pawlenty, Huntsman. But I will not vote for Romney. That’s a bridge too far for me.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Last time McCain was not conservative enough (Amnesty) and everyone wanted Romney (now derided as Mittens). Now he is a bridge too far. In short, I do not believe you. If you think the country would be better off with 4 more years of Obama then you are clearly not a conservative or a republican.

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Agreed. Let’s look at Gary Johnson v. Mitt Romney. Which of these Republican Governors has a conservative record that promotes individuality and personal responsibility, and which of these Republican Governos has a record of expanding the state and promoting state solutions to all conceivable problems?

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Bbbbbbut Johnson wants to legalize pot!!!!ty

Can’t possibly have that now can we? Just think of the children for a second.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Bain Capital does NOT equal Capitalism.

Bain Capital is an equity firm, it is not the Free Market System.

If Bain Capital is the Free Market System, what are all those other companies doing existing?

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Bain is a peripheral component to the free market. The free market at its base is about producing goods and selling them unencumbered by the government. Bain did none of that, and to the extent that its role can be considered positive, its role in the free market was to increase efficiencies. That’s it.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:49 AM

The guy who created Obamacare – Lite

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:34 AM

LOL, earlier in this thread you claimed an MIT professor wrote Romneycare, not Romney.

Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Meanwhile we have George Soros is saying no difference between Obama and Romney. Maybe Creepy Dude is stirring up trouble, but there are serious doubts about this with the conservative base. All the more reason for this process to continue to the convention. Santorum needs to stay in. The only way to have this open is for Gingrich, Santorum and Paul to take enough delegates so it has to go to the convention. Claiming Romney won now and not letting this process vet out would be a big mistake by the GOP establishment.

Mr. Joe on January 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM

If you think the country would be better off with 4 more years of Obama then you are clearly not a conservative or a republican.

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Tell me what you think that Romney would do differently than Obama. And I want some evidence in his record that can be presented as at least persuasive evidence of such difference.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM

LOL, earlier in this thread you claimed an MIT professor wrote Romneycare, not Romney.

Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Mr. Literal Guy strikes again.

Mr Literal,

When Romney ran CEO did he do everything in the company himself? Did he write every contract Bain signed?

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:52 AM

I am an Independent. I care about a fiscal conservative agenda being implemented for this country, and backing us away from the financial cliff we are headed for Greece style. Currently we have a financial oligarchy running our government and it’s pretty easy to figure out their vision for this country. Banana Republic.

summary of a collusion between the overweening state and certain favored monopolistic concerns, whereby the profits can be privatized and the debts conveniently socialized, but another term for the same system would be “banana republic”.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Romney’s the only one who has been talking about the U.S. heading in the direction of Greece. Gingrich is talking about colonies on the moon, and impeaching judges.

rockmom on January 31, 2012 at 11:52 AM

The irony here is that Romney did to private companies exactly what needs to be done to the federal government:

We need to cut headcount drastically, eliminate job overlap, combine jobs, freeze hiring, cut salaries and benefits.

Cut overhead to a minimum; no fancy government buildings with fountains and art collections. Put them in rented no-name office buildings.

Trim the management structure so that there are no more than five or six levels.

Outsource as much as possible. Start with the IRS, let contracts for IRS services to each of the fifty states. Let the big accounting firms bid.

Eliminate meaningless pass-through departments that don’t add value to the end-product, like the Department of Education.

Sell off anything that doesn’t add to the bottom line, like every acre of land that doesn’t have a building or base on it.

slickwillie2001 on January 31, 2012 at 11:53 AM

If you think the country would be better off with 4 more years of Obama then you are clearly not a conservative or a republican.

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Well that settles that. Your argument is so powerful and cogent, I will run out and buy a Romney 2012 sticker for my car.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:53 AM

LOL, earlier in this thread you claimed an MIT professor wrote Romneycare, not Romney.

Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM

The guy who wrote it didn’t create it. He wrote it. The guy who signed it created it. But, I know that you Romney supporters don’t know that different words mean different things. For example, you think that “conservative” and “statist” mean the same thing, or at least it appears that way.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:54 AM

The irony here is that Romney did to private companies exactly what needs to be done to the federal government:

We need to cut headcount drastically, eliminate job overlap, combine jobs, freeze hiring, cut salaries and benefits.

Cut overhead to a minimum; no fancy government buildings with fountains and art collections. Put them in rented no-name office buildings.

Trim the management structure so that there are no more than five or six levels.

Outsource as much as possible. Start with the IRS, let contracts for IRS services to each of the fifty states. Let the big accounting firms bid.

Eliminate meaningless pass-through departments that don’t add value to the end-product, like the Department of Education.

Sell off anything that doesn’t add to the bottom line, like every acre of land that doesn’t have a building or base on it.

slickwillie2001 on January 31, 2012 at 11:53 AM

he was governor for 4 years. You know how many departments he eliminated? 0

How many govt workers he fired? 0

How much govt spending he cut? He increased spending by 30%

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:55 AM

The irony here is that Romney did to private companies exactly what needs to be done to the federal government:

slickwillie2001 on January 31, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Unfortunately, when the MA government needed the same thing, he did the opposite. Which path do you think he’ll follow?

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Another poster mentioned Romney’s Mormonism. I could never vote for a man with such weird, cult-beliefs that Mormonism comprises. Romney’s Mormonism defines him and his character. He’s unelectable, in my view. The man’s not even a Christian.

jfs756 on January 31, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Romney could have hit a New Vision of Space approach… but that takes insight into how such capability can be found and delivered. This cannot be managed from government, but government can set goals and pay for deliverables.

ajacksonian on January 31, 2012 at 11:21 AM

But he’s not, he’s just whining about Newt’s campaigning style. Romney’s campaign team, waves at opportunities as they pass him by. Romney was the head of Bain Capital, one would expect him to be good at selling. If Mitt has got a drag on his campaign team, that is lagging behind current popular public opinion. I say, jettison that ballast :)

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 11:55 AM

The guy who wrote it didn’t create it. He wrote it. The guy who signed it created it. But, I know that you Romney supporters don’t know that different words mean different things. For example, you think that “conservative” and “statist” mean the same thing, or at least it appears that way.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Mittbots have nothing to run on. They can’t defend Willard’s record so they use word tricks like sign vs. create to obfuscate the real issue. And the funny thing is, they don’t even realize they’re doing exactly what liberals do.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:56 AM

The Media is shilling for Romney, I believe because he’s got deep pockets, and that’s what works with the media “$$$” that’s who they’ll back.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 10:31 AM

When are you morons going to get a clue?

Bad News for Romney Mitt Romney was the only major candidate to receive a majority of negative evaluations by sources and reporters, on both the broadcast network nightly news and FOX “Special Report.” (We measured evaluative comments about the candidates’ behavior, past records, issue positions, personal character, etc. However, we excluded comments about how they were faring in the campaign horse race.)

http://www.cmpa.com/media_room_press_1_18_12.html

That meme won’t hunt.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 11:57 AM

If you think the country would be better off with 4 more years of Obama then you are clearly not a conservative or a republican.

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM
Well that settles that. Your argument is so powerful and cogent, I will run out and buy a Romney 2012 sticker for my car.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Yeah!!!! There is hope for you. Welcome to the team. Together we will all cut the size of the Fed Gov’t, Balance the budget and reduce the Federal Debt!

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:58 AM

they use word tricks like sign vs. create to obfuscate the real issue. And the funny thing is, they don’t even realize they’re doing exactly what liberals do.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:56 AM

All of their tactics are the same as can be found on Kos.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Nate,
I’m lucky it will all be decided loooong before the Primaries get to me as with the General so your Shame won’t work on me.

I think its a Shame that Romney can compromise on his abortion stances. I could never say I was Pro Choice if I wasn’t.

I want Obama out as much as the next guy, but I don’t see the daylight between Romneycare and Obamacare. I’ve heard all the answers, just not buying it. I don’t want to be told by my government(state or fed level) that I HAVE to buy anything.

MontanaMmmm on January 31, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Yeah because Obama would never have thought of using that line of attack. Grow a pair Mittbots. If you can’t effectively counter an attack ad from Perry/Gingrich how the hell do you think you’ll couter attacks from 24/7 smear machine known as the MSM?

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:33 AM

.
I for one will enjoy watching jug ears attack Bain…. then have to splain why he’s hire ex-bain and other PE employees into decision making roles in his admin. I want to see obie attack PE and Wall st. and then explain why he loaded up his cabinet/admin with Goldman and other wall st. people. I will enjoy listening to el presidente splain his crony relationship with GE/immelt and where all the funneled stimulus billions went. I can’t wait for him to discuss Keystone and other job killing he’s made and how some of these decisions benefitted poor boys Buffet and Soros- whom BOTH are on obie speed dial.
.
Me thinks you don’t feel there is a very strong case against the Hypocrite in Chief.

FlaMurph on January 31, 2012 at 11:59 AM

MittBots …
Remind us again, if you can, how many successful start-up businesses Romney has helmed.

Ø

I thought so. He’s a scavenger no better than Buffett and Soros.

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 31, 2012 at 11:59 AM

“Special” Gunlock Billie Bob doesn’t realize his “study” is from Jan 18 and doesn’t take into account the week long anti-Newt bashfest on Fox/Drudge/Hotair that too place since.

But Special Bill also thinks Romney cut spending while increasing spending by 30%

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Welcome to the team. Together we will all cut the size of the Fed Gov’t, Balance the budget and reduce the Federal Debt!

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:58 AM

If Romney is captain of that team, none of those things will happen. Well, he might work to balance the budget, but he will do so by raising taxes, like he did in MA and just like Obama is proposing.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Nice try! Get another shovel.

Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Debbie Wasserman ANGRYEYED has an aversion to the truth. It is a symptom of RDS.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Look. Replacing one awful president with another doesn’t mean that the new guy is going to be better. When the Russians got rid of Lenin, they ended up with Stalin. You can go from bad to worse. Or even just as bad, or almost as bad. It doesn’t have to go from bad to good or bad to better.

(And no, I’m not comparing Obama to Lenin or Romney to Stalin, so I don’t want to hear about it.)

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 12:02 PM

No, Romneycare’s liberalism is the curse!!!

Danielvito on January 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Debbie Wasserman ANGRYEYED has an aversion to the truth. It is a symptom of RDS.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM

You wouldn’t know what the truth is if it smacked you in the face.

besser tot als rot on January 31, 2012 at 12:04 PM

I for one will enjoy watching jug ears attack Bain…. then have to splain why he’s hire ex-bain and other PE employees into decision making roles in his admin. I want to see obie attack PE and Wall st. and then explain why he loaded up his cabinet/admin with Goldman and other wall st. people. I will enjoy listening to el presidente splain his crony relationship with GE/immelt and where all the funneled stimulus billions went. I can’t wait for him to discuss Keystone and other job killing he’s made and how some of these decisions benefitted poor boys Buffet and Soros- whom BOTH are on obie speed dial.
.
Me thinks you don’t feel there is a very strong case against the Hypocrite in Chief.

FlaMurph on January 31, 2012 at 11:59 AM

You’re in la-la land if you think anyone in the MSM will ask about Bain consultants in the WH or GE. The stimulus is 3 years old. Nobody cares anymore, it’s yesterday’s news. Even when it was current news, the MSM cheered on as a great job creator. Keystone? Dude, isn’t that a light beer or something? Seriously, 90% of Americans have already forgotten about it, if they even had a clue what it was in the first place.

The attack will be this:

I LIKE TO FIRE PEOPLE on an endless tv commercial loop with background pictures and stats about the people Bain fired.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Debbie Wasserman ANGRYEYED has an aversion to the truth. It is a symptom of RDS.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Special Bill “truth”

Romney cut $1.6B spending while increasing spending by 30%.

It’s that new Math they teach in Romney Shill College.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Another poster mentioned Romney’s Mormonism. I could never vote for a man with such weird, cult-beliefs that Mormonism comprises. Romney’s Mormonism defines him and his character. He’s unelectable, in my view. The man’s not even a Christian.

jfs756 on January 31, 2012 at 11:55 AM

What about YOUR weird cultish beliefs based in Christianity? ALL religions are nutty and weird. They all foist horrible logic and beliefs on us.

The creator of the entire cosmos had to come down to THIS planet out of the trillions of planets out there in the universe and masquerade in a “meat suit” for 30 something years so he could feel our pain and understand the world and the universe through the eyes of a mortal, JUST so he could be sacrificed on a cross in the bronze aged middle east to appease his “father’s” bloodlust?

See how nutty YOUR beliefs sound?

Religions are like farts, YOURS is good, but everybody else’s stinks.

SauerKraut537 on January 31, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Romney’s the only one who has been talking about the U.S. heading in the direction of Greece. Gingrich is talking about colonies on the moon, and impeaching judges.

rockmom on January 31, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Yes but the problem is he’s taking money from the same people that make up the current financial oligarchy.

Romney is in George W Bush political territory. (this is never attractive political landscape) George W Bush: I had to destroy the free market system to save the free market system.

Mitt Romney: I have to take campaign donations from the people who are at the heart of crony capitalism so I can stop crony capitalism – like Jamie Dimon, Obama adviser, and head of JP Morgan Chase. Jamie Dimon actually had a company, that was involved in that lightsquared fiasco.

I blame Romney’s campaign team, they aren’t pulling their weight. I guess they think if they throw enough money at Mitt’s problems, they will just go away. That’s not good optics for public consumption either IMO. -Newt’s already accused Romney of trying to buy the Presidency.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 12:06 PM

So, hear we have a microcosm of what is wrong with conservative America. Its the old can’t see the forest because the trees are in the way insanity. So and so isn’t conservative enough, they supported this and that, blah, blah, blah BS! How anyone that can identify themselves as Republican, Libertarian or plain ol’ Conservative (big or little “c”) and not support whomever the nominee is against Obama is a spiteful, selfish fool or a true Obama supporter. As such your opinions on any potential GOP nominee are irrelevant.

All Hail YOUR Messiah!

dmann on January 31, 2012 at 12:06 PM

It’s the Amateur Hour with Newt Gingrich!

Actually an article that is worth reading from Rich Galen regarding what happened to Newt:

Gingrich’s Biggest Enemy May Be His Lack of Organization

Gingrich found out this week how hard it is to face what he called the ‘Romney attack machine.’ It’s even tougher when, like Gingrich, you hardly have a machine to call your own.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/29/gingrich-s-biggest-enemy-may-be-his-lack-of-organization.html

mountainaires on January 31, 2012 at 12:07 PM

SauerKraut537 on January 31, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Mormonism is the only religion I know of that doesn’t allow non-believers inside their house of worship. I agree that all religions are nutty and weird. But most don’t discriminate the way the LDS does. The fact Romney belongs to this cult is telling.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 12:07 PM

So we have a person who is an expert in business…one of the best business minds in the U.S….he has spent tens of millions on failed campaigns where he has a chance to earn thousands of dollars, and this is a good investment how? He has lost tens of millions, and won a job for just 4 years where he was “okay”, but not good enough for a second term…and that cost him millions upon millions…I would say his ROI for his political career is pretty dismal.
Would you give money to someone who has lost over $100 million dollars in failed business? He has made a success in private business, but has lost millions in the business of politics.
My advice, back him and invest in him when he is running a business…but don’t invest in him when he runs for office, he is a big loser, and I would venture to say, the biggest loser in American political history.

right2bright on January 31, 2012 at 12:08 PM

During this economic climate, Romney’s business experience is the absolute biggest reason for my support for him. I am a 30+ year FAR RIGHT-WING conservative but Romney’s turnaround experience in both business and his work on the 2002 SLC Olympics are the most important resume enhancers to me. Yes, I will admit his conservatism leaves much to be desired and in another election cycle, when the economy perhaps is not as important (when is it not actually) – this might sway my support to another candidate. I recognize Santorum as the closest to “the most conservative” but even he has his issues there. I do believe Romney will do all in his power to repeal Obamacare are soon as possible and I take his word that he has had an epiphany over abortion and is now 100% Pro-Life when it comes to this issue. Many Newt supporters refuse to accept this turnaround, but we should always celebrate when a person “turns” Pro-Life. Newt has been the biggest disappointment for me. While being a Newt fan previously, my research on his K Street years have literally shocked me. Add on attacking Romney using Obama and OWS vocabulary
and I have totally turned against Newt. I must disclose one issue in particular – I watched a web video the other day that shows Newt attacking Mitt on family values. Yes, family values. Newt’s PAC actually used Romney’s “dog carrier on the roof scandal” to prove that Mitt fails the family values test. OMG – the sheer hypocrisy is off the scale. This coming from a man, thrice married to at least 2 of his mistresses. I was blown away. I live in FL and listening to his stump speeches during these last few days is making me embarrassed I ever supported him. The desperation, the erratic rantings – all I can say, if Newt was to get the GOP nod and gets bombarded with one billion dollars worth of attack ads – all of us, calling ourselves republicans or conservatives will be embarrassed beyond Obama and the left’s wildest dreams.

BabysCatz on January 31, 2012 at 12:08 PM

I will absolutely, 100% not vote for Romney. No more establishment RINOs.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:12 AM

You forgot, I also hate Mormons.

angryed on January 20, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Debbie Wasserman angryeyed is an Obama supporter.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:09 PM

when things do not go exactly their way, they take the football and go home.

Natebo on January 31, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Yes, that’s called freedom. Not only do we have the freedom to participate on a chosen team, we also have the freedom to leave that team when it no longer represents our ideals. It is up to the owner or team leaders to model that team’s culture in such a way that people choose to participate and strive to win under its banner.

But if you’re going to piss and moan that we don’t subscribe to indentured servitude, well boo frick’n hoo. Your attitude is just one more example of how the ideals of the Republican team have changed from the message of freedom to one of keeping everyone in line.

If you want my vote, prove the team is worthy of it.

dominigan on January 31, 2012 at 12:09 PM

During this economic climate, Romney’s business experience is the absolute biggest reason for my support for him. I am a 30+ year FAR RIGHT-WING conservative but Romney’s turnaround experience in both business and his work on the 2002 SLC Olympics are the most important resume enhancers to me. Yes, I will admit his conservatism leaves much to be desired and in another election cycle, when the economy perhaps is not as important (when is it not actually) – this might sway my support to another candidate. I recognize Santorum as the closest to “the most conservative” but even he has his issues there. I do believe Romney will do all in his power to repeal Obamacare are soon as possible and I take his word that he has had an epiphany over abortion and is now 100% Pro-Life when it comes to this issue. Many Newt supporters refuse to accept this turnaround, but we should always celebrate when a person “turns” Pro-Life. Newt has been the biggest disappointment for me. While being a Newt fan previously, my research on his K Street years have literally shocked me. Add on attacking Romney using Obama and OWS vocabulary
and I have totally turned against Newt. I must disclose one issue in particular – I watched a web video the other day that shows Newt attacking Mitt on family values. Yes, family values. Newt’s PAC actually used Romney’s “dog carrier on the roof scandal” to prove that Mitt fails the family values test. OMG – the sheer hypocrisy is off the scale. This coming from a man, thrice married to at least 2 of his mistresses. I was blown away. I live in FL and listening to his stump speeches during these last few days is making me embarrassed I ever supported him. The desperation, the erratic rantings – all I can say, if Newt was to get the GOP nod and gets bombarded with one billion dollars worth of attack ads – all of us, calling ourselves republicans or conservatives will be embarrassed beyond Obama and the left’s wildest dreams.

BabysCatz on January 31, 2012 at 12:08 PM

+1

I feel the same way.

haner on January 31, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Mormonism is the only religion I know of that doesn’t allow non-believers inside their house of worship. I agree that all religions are nutty and weird. But most don’t discriminate the way the LDS does. The fact Romney belongs to this cult is telling.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Incorrect Ed. There are plenty of religions that don’t allow the laity into their inner sanctums. the Catholic church doesn’t allow people into their “most holy” places, the same with the Muslims. You as a Christian or Sikh or whatever cannot enter Mecca and the Kaaba

SauerKraut537 on January 31, 2012 at 12:12 PM

LOL, earlier in this thread you claimed an MIT professor wrote Romneycare, not Romney.

Del Dolemonte on January 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Debbie Wasserman angreyed is unstable that way.

RDS does that.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:13 PM

The man’s not even a Christian.

jfs756 on January 31, 2012 at 11:55 AM

I’m not sure what a Christian is. Can you give me a basic run down on their beliefs?

csdeven on January 31, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Mormonism is the only religion I know of that doesn’t allow non-believers inside their house of worship. I agree that all religions are nutty and weird. But most don’t discriminate the way the LDS does. The fact Romney belongs to this cult is telling.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Thank you for that honest assessment.
Further, Mormon “charities” only give to other Mormons.
(been there, seen that)

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM

See how nutty YOUR beliefs sound?

Religions are like farts, YOURS is good, but everybody else’s stinks.

SauerKraut537 on January 31, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Discernment is a word that seems to escape you…most people understand that others are comparing two religions…Christian and Mormon’s, it’s a relative comparison.
Mormon’s consider Christian’s strange, and most Christian’s consider Mormon’s beliefs and how they “came about”, along with their leaders propensity for child brides and multiple brides as being “different”.
And by definition, ones beliefs are exactly that, if they believed someone’s else’s is “more correct” they would gravitate towards that.
That’s like saying you can’t dismiss democrats if you are a Republican…

right2bright on January 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Another poster mentioned Romney’s Mormonism. I could never vote for a man with such weird, cult-beliefs that Mormonism comprises. Romney’s Mormonism defines him and his character. He’s unelectable, in my view. The man’s not even a Christian.

jfs756 on January 31, 2012 at 11:55 AM

We already know that you are a bigot and a moron.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:16 PM

I’m not sure what a Christian is. Can you give me a basic run down on their beliefs?

csdeven on January 31, 2012 at 12:14 PM


Apostles’ Creed

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:

2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:

3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:

4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:

5. The third day he rose again from the dead:

6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:

7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:

8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:

9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:

10. The forgiveness of sins:

1l. The resurrection of the body:

12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

That’s a summation, that every Christian Church subscribes to (with minor variances) to…thanks for asking.

right2bright on January 31, 2012 at 12:17 PM

They can’t defend Willard’s record so they use word tricks like sign vs. create to obfuscate the real issue. And the funny thing is, they don’t even realize they’re doing exactly what liberals do.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Classic example of projection.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:18 PM

We already know that you are a bigot and a moron.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Pal, not believing in a faith is not being a bigot…if you don’t believe in Voodoo, are you a bigot? Or if you don’t believe in Islam, are you a bigot? Good grief…I’m not a Catholic, guess I am a bigot…

right2bright on January 31, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Discernment is a word that seems to escape you…most people understand that others are comparing two religions…Christian and Mormon’s, it’s a relative comparison.
Mormon’s consider Christian’s strange, and most Christian’s consider Mormon’s beliefs and how they “came about”, along with their leaders propensity for child brides and multiple brides as being “different”.
And by definition, ones beliefs are exactly that, if they believed someone’s else’s is “more correct” they would gravitate towards that.
That’s like saying you can’t dismiss democrats if you are a Republican…

right2bright on January 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Oh, I can discern just fine. How do you think I free’d myself from the clutches of religious belief?

I used to compare my beliefs with the beliefs of other people from other religions and scoff at their “crazy” beliefs just like the original poster that started my commenting did.

I then got a bit of intellectual honesty and realized that my beliefs were just as nutty as theirs.

Trust me, I can discern just fine right2bright.

It’s people who still think that THEIR religion isn’t nutty who lack discernment.

SauerKraut537 on January 31, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Romney cut $1.6B spending while increasing spending by 30%.

It’s that new Math they teach in Romney Shill College.

angryed on January 31, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Debbie Wasserman angryeyed can’t comprehend the concept of a budget cut. It is beyond her feeble comprehension skills.

Gunlock Bill on January 31, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Would you give money to someone who has lost over $100 million dollars in failed business? He has made a success in private business, but has lost millions in the business of politics.
My advice, back him and invest in him when he is running a business…but don’t invest in him when he runs for office, he is a big loser, and I would venture to say, the biggest loser in American political history.

right2bright on January 31, 2012 at 12:08 PM

It reminds me something that was said about Romney months ago. I think it was a discussion between Imus and Chris Wallace, but I would have to check. The point was that Romney is a lousy campaigner, but he might be better at being a president. Unfortunately we only have his Massachusetts public record as Governor to go by which isn’t popular with the conservative republican base so his private sector record is trotted out so conservative republicans can to relate to him as a free market capitalist. I have heard Romney address the crony capitalist issue that so many conservatives have raised, he just doesn’t make the argument for us, from a very strong position. Romney is taking their money, and I get his explanation for why he’s doing it, it just doesn’t work. Romney can’t square that circle anymore than Bush could square, destroying the free market to save the free market. We get it – we’re f’d.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2012 at 12:22 PM

BabysCatz on January 31, 2012 at 12:08 PM
haner on January 31, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Amen to that, BabysCatz.

mountainaires on January 31, 2012 at 12:22 PM

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