Taxes and the Fairness Offensive

posted at 9:35 am on January 28, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

For the 2012 election season, Democrats are going back to the drawing board and coming up with bold, fresh new ideas. One of the big, revolutionary game plans is obviously going to be, “Hey… let’s raise taxes!

What’s that you say? You think this is the same thing they always try? Don’t be fooled. There’s a whole new approach being rolled out. We’re not going to simply jack up everyone’s taxes to take in more money and then blow it all on inefficient, costly programs. We’re going to have a whole new type of tax policy. You see, we’re just trying to be fair.

Democratic leaders are embracing a new strategy for tax reform that leans on President Obama’s State of the Union call for tax fairness and economic equality.

The new strategy diverges from the 1986 formula, the last time Washington successfully tackled tax reform, and focuses on raising tax revenue from the wealthiest taxpayers and businesses that funnel jobs offshore.

“Tax reform after the president’s speech now has a different definition,” Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Wednesday.

“We intend to pursue a different kind of tax reform that borrows from the president’s proposals,” Schumer, a leader in crafting Democratic messaging, told reporters.

See? We’re not trying to take anything away from anybody, or punish the rich or conduct class warfare. We just want everything to be fair. Who could argue with that? Well, as it turns out, I might be able to, but the premise relies heavily on how we choose to define the word “fair” and what sort of taxes we’re talking about here. (And to be clear, I’m still sorting through some of this because it’s hardly a simple, cut and dried issue.)

As Chuck Schumer implies, Democrats will be drawing heavily on Mitt Romney’s tax returns this year to demonstrate how inherently unfair the system is. Why should a guy knocking down more than $20M a year pay less than 15% in taxes when “the guy who picks up his trash” is paying more than 20? On the surface that sounds like a pretty good question, and Democrats are counting on the general public to look no deeper than the surface. (This is not a frivolous strategy. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the curiosity, intellect and investigatory powers of the voters in America.)

The carried interest question is a big one. People like Romney make most, if not all, of their money through capital gains and interest based returns. A more nuanced look at things will tell you that this is money which the taxpayer has already earned and paid taxes on once prior to investing it. So it is, in effect, double taxation. Is that “fair” in the minds of most people? But if you didn’t tax carried interest at all, then a lot of people in Romney’s position would essentially pay zero taxes. And while that may seem more “fair” deep the bowels of the Bureau of Statistics and Analysis, it’s not going to play very well in 30 second political ads this fall. But if we tax that income at 30%, as Schumer proposes, you are now DOUBLE taxing those that invest in the capitalist machinery. Clearly this is going to take some work in educating the public and finding a salable path.

And what of letting the current Bush tax cuts expire? This one is perhaps even more prickly. Nobody in either party wants to be looked upon as being the ones to simply jack up everyone’s taxes, but this is one of those situations where doing nothing isn’t an option. If no action is taken, the taxes go up. And the Democrats are crafting a plan that’s more “fair” even as we speak. We’ll just let the tax cuts on “the rich” expire and keep the rest. Unfortunately for fiscal conservatives, this is also an idea that polls through the roof. Because.. you know… it’s more fair don’t you see?

This is no laughing matter. The Democrats are getting ready to roll out a double bladed campaign of mediscare on one side and “tax fairness” on the other. And without a substantial, yet easily relayed message in response, it’s going to be a powerful weapon in the general elections.

UPDATE: (Jazz) Lady Logician has some additional thoughts on this subject.

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Can you imagine the uproar from the upper crust if the system were property-based?

beatcanvas on January 28, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Prior to 1909, it was mainly that way in England. Of course, until 1867, they also ran the country, since it was their money being used. I could go for that.

OldEnglish on January 28, 2012 at 11:01 AM

I don’t understand why the idea of having a “donation” line on the tax form for people like Buffett who want to donate more just won’t catch on.

Oh yeah, BECAUSE NOBODY WOULD DO IT!!

Wagthatdog on January 28, 2012 at 11:02 AM

You can rant all day long that lower capital gains tax rates encourages investment, in theory, but there are a lot of bad investments out there, too. I guess the suckers who owned shares in Enron or WorldCom can have the consolation that they helped create jobs, or something. Temporary jobs.

You’re making the case for a lower rate. Risk.

Most financial assets are held by a very small percentage of the population (called “the rich”) and these are people who really don’t need an extra incentive to invest. That’s all they do all day long, anyway.

Emperor Norton on January 28, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Tell that to the millions of people holding 401k’s and IRA’s with stocks in their portfolio.

BacaDog on January 28, 2012 at 11:02 AM

There’s room to cut everywhere but for Pete’s Sake, entitlements!

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Our best and brightest are spit upon by these scumbags. And they do it with a smiling face. Man I hate these people.

VegasRick on January 28, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Prior to 1909, it was mainly that way in England. Of course, until 1867, they also ran the country, since it was their money being used. I could go for that.

OldEnglish on January 28, 2012 at 11:01 AM

I believe that is what led to the destruction of of the old order (or forced them into marriages with American heiresses), no? And the destruction of many a Jane Austin-worthy manor?

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Wagthatdog on January 28, 2012 at 11:00 AM

good point. Mitt gave away far more than the prez. I’ve seen studies concluding conservative charitable giving trumps progressive. I’d link them but I’m lazy.

I guess that means the gov should tax me, huh beatcanvas?

DHChron on January 28, 2012 at 11:06 AM

I don’t understand why the idea of having a “donation” line on the tax form for people like Buffett who want to donate more just won’t catch on.

Oh yeah, BECAUSE NOBODY WOULD DO IT!!

Wagthatdog on January 28, 2012 at 11:02 AM

I’d tape a penny to my return but I know I would get audited at the very least.

VegasRick on January 28, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Buffett must be the stupidest billionaire in the world.

Sticky Wicket on January 28, 2012 at 11:06 AM

As it is, we punish people for earning more, and we give them a break for earning less – effectively creating an incentive system to be less successful.

As does extending unemployment benefits for 2 years. It’s built in to the Democratic Party method. The people that get money from the goevernment have an incentive to vote D. The D’s have an incentive to keep those people getting government handouts to keep them voting D, even if it means keeping them unemployed or on welfare or Social Security. Unfortunately, the working/productive portion of the population can’t bear the costs of supporting the other half. Even increasing taxes to 100% of income over $250,000 won’t cover the budget, let alone the defecit.

The way to frame this is in dollar amounts not percentages. Romney pays $3,000,000 in taxes and his trash man pays $600.

Vince on January 28, 2012 at 10:45 AM
And gets a $2,400 return. Go figure.

VegasRick on January 28, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Exactly. And they get basically the same critical services from the government. The trashman might even get more.

talkingpoints on January 28, 2012 at 11:08 AM

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 9:48 AM

Three possibilities.
1. Your mind has been rotted out by all the pollution in the city you live in.
2. You were born ignorant and have done nothing to alleviate the situation
3. You agree a flat tax on everyone is the correct position.

I hope it is #3.

chemman on January 28, 2012 at 11:08 AM

I thought it was implied, and I realize that you’re being purposely thick, but let me amend that to say “two people in similar circumstances who earn the same amount of money.”

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 10:48 AM

Funny that I’m the thick one when I don’t leave “implieds” lying around. It’s those “implieds” that screwed up the tax code to begin with.

Here’s a solution, elitist, let’s rewrite the AMT to make capital gains taxes the same as earned income above 2 million annually, and this time index it to inflation. This will be advanced, no doubt, by fair minded democrats ANY minute now…

Still waiting….

You simpleton.

WryTrvllr on January 28, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Schumer and all the other democrats know that eventually all that spending created debt that must one day be repaid. Most govt. revenue comes from taxes so the more they spend the greater the pressure to raise taxes to pay off the debt. China is not going to cancel any debt that we owe them. Essentially the govt. is rewarded with more revenue the more it spends barring the collapse of the economy such as we see in Greece. Schumer and his big spending friends know that it can happen here but not immediately or before the next election, and even if it did, they want to establish a utopia with the remains. All it takes to build a socialist state is people and some geographical area which will still be here after our current form of govt. has been destroyed and oh yes, a group of economic geniuses like the current administration.

dunce on January 28, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Buffett must be the stupidest billionaire in the world.

Sticky Wicket on January 28, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Well, maybe not. For all of his ranting about his secretary, he has yet to volunteer to send more than owed like a commenter above said they should be able to do.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:09 AM

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 9:48 AM

Three possibilities.
1. Your mind has been rotted out by all the pollution in the city you live in.
2. You were born ignorant and have done nothing to alleviate the situation
3. You agree a flat tax on everyone is the correct position.

I hope it is #3.

chemman on January 28, 2012 at 11:08 AM

May I add a fourth?

4. He gets confused about his points while trying to manage several sockpuppets.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Colleges are the effective originators, the promoters, and the chief financial beneficiaries of student loans.

Professor Richard Vedder, considering the question of a student loan bubble, recently concluded that the worst idea ever “was the creation of federally subsidized student loans in the first place.” Can any lessons from the searing national misadventure with mortgages be usefully applied to student loans? I believe so.

A principal lesson from mortgages, nearly universally agreed upon, is that those who create the mortgages should retain a material part of the credit risk. Such “skin in the game” obviously aligns the incentives of the originator of the loan with taxpayer guarantors to control excesses in debt expansion. For mortgages, this “skin in the game” concept was adopted by the Dodd-Frank Act of 2010. More importantly, its advantages are displayed by one of the highest quality mortgage portfolios that exist today: the Mortgage Partnership Finance (MPF) mortgages of the Federal Home Loan Banks. All of these MPF mortgages have credit risk retained by the originator, with excellent results for their credit performance. This program has been operating for more than 14 years.

Let’s apply this mortgage lesson to student loans.

Who are the most important parties to have “skin in the game” in student loans? The colleges themselves, of course! They are the effective originators, the promoters, and the chief financial beneficiaries of student loans. It is their rising costs which result in ever more debt and more risk of default for student borrowers and for taxpayers.

The federal student loan programs should simply compel colleges which get proceeds from the programs to maintain a 10 percent first-loss share in the credit performance of the loan. This puts a material risk of excessive and un-repayable debt and of high college costs on those who are promoting the loans. The colleges would stand to take losses on bad loans before the taxpayers, as they should—they would, in financial parlance, be subordinated or “junior” to the taxpayers. A highly desirable improvement in financial structure and incentives!

So, just as for the mortgage lenders, let’s give the colleges some “skin in the game.”

J_Crater on January 28, 2012 at 11:13 AM

For the, “We only want to tax millionaires” crowd, I would like to point out that the total individual income tax collected by the IRS in 2010 was about $900 billion. Also in 2010 the Federal Government spent $1.3 trillion more than the total revenue collected from all sources, including individual income taxes. It doesn’t take a degree in math to see that we could double the tax rates on all individual income tax payers, collect another $900 billion, and still be $400 billion short.

Those proposing “tax the rich” to solve the deficit problem are either ignorant, or they think the rest of us are.

WestTexasBirdDog on January 28, 2012 at 11:15 AM

On the one hand this reminds me of the saying, “We’re not prejudiced, we hate everybody.”

On the other, it reminds me of what King George III was doing with all his silly acts that imposed silly taxes on the colonists to pay for his endless wars and his royal lifestyle. It’s beginning to feel like “taxation without representation” because our duly elected officials think they’ve been delegated ruling powers as opposed to shepherding powers. Perhaps we need to read them the grievances against King George.

These taxes are like the Stamp Act, the Townshend Acts, the Tea Act–or as the colonists called them collectively: The Intolerable Acts. It’s been 236 years, perhaps it’s time for another American Revolution.

stukinIL4now on January 28, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Three possibilities.
1. Your mind has been rotted out by all the pollution in the city you live in.
2. You were born ignorant and have done nothing to alleviate the situation
3. You agree a flat tax on everyone is the correct position.

I hope it is #3.

chemman on January 28, 2012 at 11:08 AM

I could go for a flat tax, as long as it:

1) treated all income the same

2) zeroed out all deductions (or, realistically, all deductions except for mortgage interest on primary residences)

3) contained sufficient personal deductions to keep it progressive at the low end of the income scale. For instance $5k deduction per person so that a single mom with 2 kids making $30k would actually paying half the flat rate.

We can argue about what that rate would be, later. ;)

Funny that I’m the thick one when I don’t leave “implieds” lying around. It’s those “implieds” that screwed up the tax code to begin with.

Here’s a solution, elitist, let’s rewrite the AMT to make capital gains taxes the same as earned income above 2 million annually, and this time index it to inflation. This will be advanced, no doubt, by fair minded democrats ANY minute now…

Still waiting….

You simpleton.

WryTrvllr on January 28, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Sorry, missed you there.

When you get into an economics argument, “all things being equal” is pretty much a standard assumption, so that you can limit the discussion to a single variable. Sort of a rule of thumb to hold onto.

Let’s end the AMT (my bane, but, as a homeowner I am tax-favored — the tax code giveth…), and tax all income at the same rate (as per above) and never index anything to inflation as indexing feeds inflation and as investments already discount for inflation.

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:17 AM

“Hey… let’s raise taxes!”

Screw the economy!!

That’ the rest of that sentence.

Colbyjack on January 28, 2012 at 11:18 AM

May I add a fourth?

4. He gets confused about his points while trying to manage several sockpuppets.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:12 AM

I confess, I’m unsure what a sock puppet is.

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM

stukinIL4now on January 28, 2012 at 11:16 AM

That “r” word is not supposed to make it through.

Test: Sandusky.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM

good point. Mitt gave away far more than the prez. I’ve seen studies concluding conservative charitable giving trumps progressive. I’d link them but I’m lazy.

I guess that means the gov should tax me, huh beatcanvas?

DHChron on January 28, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Yeah, on average it’s a big difference. From what I understand the Obama’s gave 1% to charitable giving while Romney gave 10 or 15%.

Of course, Joe Biden only gave about 300 bucks which shows how much he cares about people.

Wagthatdog on January 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Sure you are.

Secrets safe.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:20 AM

wth with the censors.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:21 AM

It’s really insulting to the intelligence of the American voter and anybody that has to rely on someone to be ignorant about something to divert from their record is pretty damn sad.

If only the media would point this out and hammer it in people’s head like they do this ticky tack stuff between the GOP it would be great.

Obviously, people forgot Obama used to have the song “99 problems” at rallies. 99 problems but a bitch ain’t one….meaning Hillary.

Wagthatdog on January 28, 2012 at 11:23 AM

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:06 AM

That, and the death taxes, introduced by the Labour Party (wouldn’t you know it).

OldEnglish on January 28, 2012 at 11:23 AM

 

It won’t be fair until *everyone* pays.

 

ignatzk on January 28, 2012 at 11:25 AM

These taxes are like the Stamp Act, the Townshend Acts, the Tea Act–or as the colonists called them collectively: The Intolerable Acts. It’s been 236 years, perhaps it’s time for another American Revolution.

stukinIL4now on January 28, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Well I’m stirred – stukinIL4now is my new favorite stukinIL

DHChron on January 28, 2012 at 11:26 AM

That, and the death taxes, introduced by the Labour Party (wouldn’t you know it).

OldEnglish on January 28, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Even I think Old Labour were out of their minds.

Secrets safe.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:20 AM

So who else am I? (consulted Urban Dictionary)

I want to start a flame ware with myself to throw you off the trail.

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Of course, Joe Biden only gave about 300 bucks which shows how much he cares about people.

Wagthatdog on January 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Holy heck! I’m sure he has a clear conscience as his policies engender social justice.

DHChron on January 28, 2012 at 11:28 AM

I want to start a flame ware with myself to throw you off the trail.

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:28 AM

No one would believe it.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:36 AM

No one would believe it.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Out for the day — now you can track who else disappears and reverse engineer my other identities. Remember — egregious typos are my signature MO.

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Like millions of others, if Øbama’s capital gain tax hikes look imminent, I’m selling every security I don’t want to hold for six years, which is just about everything.

Want to see the market crash? Stay tuned.

petefrt on January 28, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Mitt Romney actually paid more in taxes than he should have.

Conservative Samizdat on January 28, 2012 at 11:45 AM

The truth of the matter is, a U.S. citizen had to pay $3,000,000 on tax day and other citizens feel cheated because of this.

What is wrong with our country?

LoganSix on January 28, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Originally, income was defined as e.g. interest and dividends, things that “come in” rather than what you go out and get, like wages which is a barter of time and labor for money. There was no federal tax on wages until Wilson, and most people paid nothing until the 50′s.

Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution: “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.”

The spirit of the law seems to me to be that Mitt and I should be paying the same rate, which we do on capital gains. Otherwise we are not being taxed uniformly. And wages should not be taxed at all, and government reduced to a relatively affordable size a la conformity to the Constitution.

Try working that into a campaign slogan!

Akzed on January 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:40 AM

If it were important to me. You have a nice day.

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM

I thought it was implied, and I realize that you’re being purposely thick, but let me amend that to say “two people in similar circumstances who earn the same amount of money.”

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 10:48 AM

Similar…LOL How liberal of you and your trying to dance around facts. Just tell the IRS anything is similar they will be happy to assist you to a prison with similar tax cheats. I know that is not stated on a tax return, if you have one, but it is implied.

Wade on January 28, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Already baked in the cake folks: Capital Gains Taxes Are Going Up

The top tax rate on long-term capital gains is currently 15%. That’s why Mitt Romney is spending so much time talking about his tax returns.
That revelation has set off a familiar debate about whether that low rate is appropriate. Often overlooked in these discussions, however, is the fact that the days of the 15% tax rate are numbered. As of this posting, it has only 342 left. On January 1, 2013, capital gains taxes are scheduled to go up sharply…

slickwillie2001 on January 28, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Tell that to the millions of people holding 401k’s and IRA’s with stocks in their portfolio

Take Warren Buffett, add a couple of Waltons, and pretty soon you’re talking about real money. A million small investors with $50,000 worth of stocks apiece in an IRA only comes to $50 billion.

The Standard and Poor 500 index was almost exactly unchanged for 2011, and unchanged when you measure from 2000. In other words, if you bought stocks and held on, you made nothing, on average. With that performance, on average, does investing look that attractive any more? It’s being subsidized through a very low capital gains rate, and yet the average investor makes nothing.

[Sorry about the double post. Hot Air machine ate my first one, but waited a while to spit it out.]

Emperor Norton on January 28, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Emperor Norton on January 28, 2012 at 11:56 AM

You used a bad word, the one that refers to a place where people play cards.

slickwillie2001 on January 28, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Based on 2009 tax data, an income (AGI) of $343,927.00 or more places you in the top 1%.
Based solely on her income from Harvard, $429,000 , Elizabeth Warren is a 1%-er.

Top 1% $343,927.00 or more with an average tax rate of 24.01%
Top 5% $154,643.00 or more with an average tax rate of 20.46%
Top 10% $112,124.00 or more with an average tax rate of 18.05%
Top 25% $ 66,193.00 or more with an average tax rate of 14.68%
Top 50% $ 32,396.00 or more with an average tax rate of 12.50%

J_Crater on January 28, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Right now the GOP can only phrase it as raising taxes on the poor or cutting taxes for the rich.

peachaeo on January 28, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Of course you mis-typed and meant to say the main stream media, not the GOP, right?

cigarcamel on January 28, 2012 at 12:22 PM

…the premise relies heavily on how we choose to define the word “fair”…

As most children know (and too many teenagers and adults haven’t grown out of) “fair” means whatever benefits me. The upshot of the Democrats’ “fairness” emphasis is, “Treat all people fairly, but treat some people more fairly than other people,” to torture Orwell’s equal and more equal construction.

brambo_42 on January 28, 2012 at 12:34 PM

Why should a guy knocking down more than $20M a year pay less than 15% in taxes when “the guy who picks up his trash” is paying more than 20?
The guy pays 3 million in taxes and that’s not enough for you.

newportmike on January 28, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Seems like we have all been dragged into the rhetorical trap. My response to the dems would be: “You go first.” You get government spending back down to no more than 20 percent of GDP, then we will figure out how to pay for it. Until then, they are not serious.

TheMagnanimousMan on January 28, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Your tax dollars at work.

Akzed on January 28, 2012 at 12:59 PM

The answer here is actually pretty simple. “Percentages” are not the things to compare. At 15%, Romney paid like $3.1 MILLION in taxes on his $21 million income. And at 20%, the trash collector potentially making $100,000 paid $20,000 in taxes.

You’re really trying to tell me that in the name of fairness, the guy who already paid over $3 million in taxes should pay MORE ?

Nowhere should that line of thinking be accepted as “fair”.

The approach that needs to be taken is that tax revenue is correlated to market transactions. Money and wealth that is just sitting in one place does not generate tax revenue, with the exception of property taxes. It is primarily when that money and wealth changes hands that tax revenue is generated. So the preferred tax policy should be one that encourages transactions, not one that discourages transactions (like increasing capital gains taxes).

deadrody on January 28, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Because there’s a difference between income taxes & capital gains taxes.

Let’s hope the American people can understand that simple point.

itsnotaboutme on January 28, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Don’t count on it. Unless it discussed on american idol or pawn stars.

Alabama Infidel on January 28, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Maybe we should start reminding people that the income tax was unconstitutional for the first 100 years of this country and was started not to be “fair” or redistribute wealth, but to pay for the civil war.

clearbluesky on January 28, 2012 at 1:32 PM

What a liberal believes: “at some point, you’ve made enough money.”
What a conservative believes: “at some point, you’ve paid enough in taxes.”

That’s what I see this issue boiling down to. I can’t believe that a person that pays $3,000,000 in taxes, plus gave an additional huge amount to charity, is being vilified in such a way. But maybe its no surprise since nearly half the country doesn’t feel the pinch of income taxes.

italianguy626 on January 28, 2012 at 1:37 PM

hawkdriver on January 28, 2012

You’re more ornery than usual. Awesome.

CW on January 28, 2012 at 1:48 PM

IF Republicans in Congress were actually smart they’d take that 50 billion estimate, then put forth a bill that encompasses the Simpson-Bowles ratio of 3 to 1 and says “We’ll give you the buffett rule but then you need to cut 150 billion from areas other than defense.” and force a vote on it.

Zaggs on January 28, 2012 at 1:55 PM

Some people were taught by their parents that stealing is wrong.

The others become Democrat politicians.

kurtzz3 on January 28, 2012 at 2:13 PM

Palin is right. This is why the vetting process during this primary is vital to the general election. Romney will lose to Obama because he is rich, and he won’t be able to defend it. I did my taxes this morning, and I am paying more this year than last year with the same income and deductions. I don’t think they should raise capital gains because of retirees, but not everyone will think that way once they do their taxes like I did.

lea on January 28, 2012 at 2:24 PM

I once read a brilliant essay about how many times a “single earned dollar” is taxed…it was truly astounding. I’ll try and find it. I think once people actually see how many times what you earn is “taxed” through “Fed, State, County, City, Town, fees (from all of the preceding), retail, gasoline, tolls, cell phone, they will literally be “shocked” into realizing just how “UNFAIR” and ridiculously insane the “tax system” has become…
Our “betters” in Washington, in the State Houses, County Seats, and local towns have been raping the populous in “repeated” taxation for over a century and using most of that money to buy votes from special interests…it is literally “legalized extortion” all under the guise of “fairness”. Disgusting!

Strike Hornet on January 28, 2012 at 2:44 PM

George Orwell was a litte early in his projection of 1984 but better late than never. Newspeak is in.

Egfrow on January 28, 2012 at 3:56 PM

and never index anything to inflation as indexing feeds inflation and as investments already discount for inflation.

urban elitist on January 28, 2012 at 11:17 AM

This is nonsense. Capital gains taxes inflation as if it was actual income when it is only nominal income. All capital gains should be indexed to inflation if you wnat to be FAIR.

KW64 on January 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

The sad thing is the fact that the GOP is missing a wonderful opportunity to turn this entire debate against the Dems AND get something substantive out of it. Whoever the nominee ends up being should counter Obama’s class warfare with something like this:

“I couldn’t agree more that it’s unfair that the wealthiest Americans enjoy a 15% tax on investments while other Americans pay a higher rate on their income taxes. Therefore, I propose that the top income tax rate be dropped to 15% as well, with middle-class and poor American’s paying an even smaller rate. Also, in giving back more control to all Americans over their money, I think the federal govt should ante up as well by matching the 15% tax rate with an across-the-board 15% spending reduction.”

Do that and Obama loses by 10% points.

rvastar on January 28, 2012 at 5:57 PM

If Obummer truly wishes to be “fair”, rather than raising the capital gains tax to 25 or 30 percent, LOWER all other tax rates to the 15 percent capital tax rate! Now that would be “fair.” By the way, cut the heck out of spending at the same time!

GFW on January 28, 2012 at 6:19 PM

The carried interest question is a big one. People like Romney make most, if not all, of their money through capital gains and interest based returns. A more nuanced look at things will tell you that this is money which the taxpayer has already earned and paid taxes on once prior to investing it. So it is, in effect, double taxation.

No, it is not double taxation. Capital gains are the profit above the investment of the principal. The principal, having already been taxed, is not taxed again.

What would make capital gains subject to a lower tax rate would be the risk that directly investing in a company entails — for a bad investment risks not only the gains but the principal amount invested.

People who deposit their money into bank accounts which are guaranteed by our Federal Government and accept the guaranteed rates a bank offers do not suffer from this disadvantage — although the banks themselves do, as we have seen.

Ask an [ex-]shareholder of Washington Mutual how they made out over the past decade for an entertaining and informing conversation of the pitfalls and advantages of stock ownership and capital gains.

Indeed, ask an [ex-]shareholder of GM that same question, and ask them how they feel about Mr. Obama having expropriated their stock.

unclesmrgol on January 28, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Shouldn’t those that use the most Social Services pay the most taxes, wouldn’t that be fair?

rgranger on January 28, 2012 at 9:41 PM

GAAAAHHH!!!

Warren Buffet, Mitt Romney, anyone and everyone earning dividend income or long-term stock sale income is paying 50%, not 15%.

Long-term capital gains are taxed at a lower rate because THE CORPORATION ALREADY PAID 35% TAXES on them!!!!

The person receiving the dividend or profit from the sale OWNED the company when it made the profits. The person, through the company, pays 35% corporate income taxes on the profits his company made. Then the company distributes the owner his share of the profits, and the government TAXES THOSE PROFITS AGAIN.

The owner ends up paying 35% + 15% = 50% taxes on any profits his investment makes.

How is this so hard to understand?

Troll Feeder on January 29, 2012 at 9:23 AM

The carried interest question is a big one. People like Romney make most, if not all, of their money through capital gains and interest based returns. A more nuanced look at things will tell you that this is money which the taxpayer has already earned and paid taxes on once prior to investing it. So it is, in effect, double taxation.

a few people have already commented above. I think it is taking a “piece of the action” on deals (favorable tax treatment) in lieu of investment banker fees (ordinary income) and as such can be abused. it seems to come up every year (e.g. one proposal a few years ago would have taxed part as ordinary income, part as investment income) but it always goes away…I’m sure it has nothing to do with political contributions coming from wall street.

teejk on January 29, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Comment pages: 1 2