Keystone decision: Voting for the stone age?

posted at 8:35 am on January 21, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

More than a few liberal voices are doing something of an end zone dance over the presumed demise of the Keystone XL pipeline. Of course, similar to a quip by Mark Twain, reports of its death may be greatly exaggerated, since President Obama’s decision left the door open for alternate proposals to be submitted. (The reality, of course, it that this likely gives him a chance to simply kill it entirely once he presumably wins a second term.) But the push to stop this also highlights a disturbing trend among domestic energy opponents, as highlighted by Warren Myer at Forbes Magazine. Are some of us voting for a return to the stone age?

Yesterday, as expected, President Obama rejected the Keystone XL pipeline, a private infrastructure project meant to bring Canadian oil to Gulf Coast refineries. In doing so, he was not quibbling over the pipeline’s route, but pandering to a group of his supporters who want nothing so much as to roll back modern industrial society…

Some would argue that these opponents aren’t anti-energy, they just want to shift energy use from fossil fuels to “green” energy like wind and solar. This is either disingenuous or unbelievably naive. The Keystone XL pipeline would have single-handedly carried more energy to the United States than the sum of all the green energy projects funded by the Obama Administration. And it would have done so entirely with private funds rather than the Administrations increasingly ill-fated and ham-handed attempts at venture capitalism with taxpayer funds. The fact of the matter is that, for the foreseeable future, opposing fossil fuels is equivalent to opposing energy use.

The Keystone decision only makes sense in the context of a general push to limit energy supply and roll back our industrial economy and all its amazing gifts.

Meyer likens pipeline opponents to global warming alarmists, finding each equally puzzling and ironic in the lengths they will go to in order to “prove” their point. One of the most recent objections to fracking, for example, is that it is causing earthquakes. (No, that’s not a link to The Onion. I’ll give you a moment to pick your jaws up off the floor and click through to the story. There are actually people saying this, oblivious to the fact that earthquakes are caused by shifts in the Earth’s tectonic plates.)

There seems to be no end to the arguments which can be made against industry, even if there is, as yet, no viable alternative to meet society’s energy needs. The only remaining alternative would be to return to some sort of hunter gatherer structure, which might cause problems for some of the green warriors. (The author notes the irony of this, saying, “I’m blogging against the modern economy from my iPhone”)

But it’s in the three postscripts to the article where Meyer truly gives us something to chew over. The first:

Does anyone doubt that had this exact same route been for high speed rail, rather than a pipeline, it would already have been approved and President Obama likely would have been proposing to throw a pile of taxpayer money at it to boot? This despite the fact that high-speed rail almost certainly has more environmental negatives than an underground pipeline.

His final point highlights the amazing reverse logic which seems to be in play here, once again comparing the Keystone XL project to California’s high speed rail line. In the latter, the White House is continuing to push a project which virtually nobody seemed to have wanted by tossing vast amounts of taxpayer money into a plan which seems almost predestined to fail. In the former, they are fighting tooth and nail to stop a project which would have been paid for by private investment and created jobs in states which desperately need them, costing the taxpayer nothing and resulting in a downstream flow of cash back into government coffers through increased commercial activity and employment.

What is to be gained from this general approach unless you’re actively looking to turn out the lights? And yet, in perhaps the greatest irony of all, the same week that Barack Obama rejected Keystone, his reelection team began running an advertising campaign touting his achievements in energy production. (Those of you tweeting this thread may now insert the #headdesk hash tag.)

Our friends at the Energy Tomorrow set the record straight on this bizarre claim. In a new study they commissioned, it was found that any advances on the domestic energy front took place in spite of Barack Obama’s energy policies, not because of them.

  • New leases on federal lands were down 44% in 2009/2010 compared to 2007/2008.
  • Permits and new wells drilled were both down 39% for the same time frame.
  • The economic downturn in 2007 was a factor in this decline, but leasing, permitting and drilling have rebounded on private lands; the decline in new permits in the West is significantly greater on federal lands (-39%) than non-federal, private lands (-20%) over the last two years.
  • Returning permitting, leasing and drilling to 2007/2008 levels would create 30,000 jobs over the next four years and increase federal royalties by $2 billion.

Federal policies – like slow permitting and leasing rates, and the outright rejection of the Keystone XL – are clearly slowing the development of vitally needed energy, and costing jobs, energy production and revenue to the government.

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Comment pages: 1 2

Yeah, I remember Clinton saying about a year ago or so that Americans needed to start using grass and straw or something for our roofs.
http://renocheck.com/renowire/going-green/the-grass-is-always-greener-over-bill-clintons-head/

JellyToast on January 21, 2012 at 8:42 AM

1) So it’s better for the environment for less sophistication nations like Saudi Arabia to drill more than for Canada to drill?

2) So it’s better for the environment to ship the oil from around the world to here, burning lots of oil to do it, with risk of spill anywhere along the way?

3) So it’s better for the environment for Canada to ship their oil to China (see 2) than to pipe it here?

itsnotaboutme on January 21, 2012 at 8:44 AM

No reason to be mystified here read Agenda 21 which is the coffee table book of the century for the enviros.

CommentGuy on January 21, 2012 at 8:44 AM

Just Obama taking care of the common man./

CW on January 21, 2012 at 8:45 AM

If we go back to the Stone Age, the greenies would be the first to be quieted, followed by the Left.

Hunter-gatherers would have no time for any interference.

OldEnglish on January 21, 2012 at 8:47 AM

Picture. Perfect. :)

Axe on January 21, 2012 at 8:49 AM

How far back in time do we have to go before the environmental extremists are happy? Neolithic,paleolithic the dawn of history?

celtic warrior on January 21, 2012 at 8:53 AM

But republicans don’t want to breathe or something.

tinkerthinker on January 21, 2012 at 8:54 AM

Speaking of stones, I know what I would like to do with a bunch of stones in regards to most of the DC political establishment crowd.

bgibbs1000 on January 21, 2012 at 8:56 AM

celtic warrior on January 21, 2012 at 8:53 AM

The better question would be: how far back would we have to go before we decided to eliminate the environuts?

OldEnglish on January 21, 2012 at 8:57 AM

GOP Nebraska Gov. Heineman said kinda yes to the pipeline. Nebraska ranchers say no. Glad I ain’t adjudicating this.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 21, 2012 at 8:57 AM

If Keystone XL had been a high speed rail line, it would be half way built

And thanks to union labor, it would STAY half-way built (never kill the job, boy…)

HammerNH on January 21, 2012 at 8:58 AM

If I was trying to bring a country to it’s knees, first I would disrupt it’s banking system then I would attempt to dry up it’s energy supply.

Good thing our president is in charge to make sure these things don’t happen.

dirtseller on January 21, 2012 at 8:59 AM

“China rescued Petrobras in 2009, when the oil company was looking at tight credit markets to finance a record-setting $224 billion investment plan. China’s national development bank offered a $10 billion loan on the condition that Petrobras ship oil to China for 10 years.” Wash. Times

So, America’s Dear Leader knew BEFORE giving Brazil OUR money that the ChiComs had already sown up a deal?
President Smart Power screws the pooch again on our dime.
Meanwhile, the man-child who would be king sings at the Apollo for HIS “people”.
Wake up, America. We’re being sold down the river by a CommieSymp.

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 21, 2012 at 9:00 AM

We have over 600,000 miles of pipeline. Most of the greenie zealots do not know about their location. 1,000 more is not detectable. In fact a new pipeline is safer in terms of accident history and risk than an old one that has been exposed to internal corrosion and has not yet spilled a little.

Pipelines are very safe.

seven on January 21, 2012 at 9:02 AM

A radical muslim trying to destroy America from within…is anyone really suprised?

wheelgun on January 21, 2012 at 9:02 AM

“On Day 1, I will sign and finalize Keystone XL which will employ Americans by the thousands and reduce fuel prices” should be HAMMERED by the GOP nominee…let’s see how fast Oblamer reconsiders..

hillsoftx on January 21, 2012 at 9:05 AM

but pandering to a group of his supporters who want nothing so much as to roll back modern industrial society…

The return of the primitive “The Anti Industrial Revolution” Ayn Rand.

It’s not as if we we’rent warned. Pick up a copy you can read about what they are trying to implement.

Detroit is being turned back into farmland. One could argue a hustling bustling hub of our modern industrial society has reverted to the pre industrial era. For some reason people think that’s some kind of accident and coincidence. Read what the weathermen planned for this area of Michigan. Read the uni bomber’s anti industrial screed. This isn’t a secret it can all be Googled.

If people, Google the terms: Occupy Wall street and primitive, they would be surprised to find out how many times they are labeled as Primitive. Call them -the Greens if you want, but what we are dealing with is The Return of the Primitive, and we were warned they would return.

Dr Evil on January 21, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Pipelines are very safe

seven on January 21, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Yes.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 21, 2012 at 9:09 AM

What some of you are missing is one big factor.

Lets just say that for some reason the pipeline was approved.

How are we to process this into fuel? When was the last time a new refinery was built that did not process corn?

Getting the oil is only one part of the problem and will not do no good if you can not expand the capacity to take on more oil.

watertown on January 21, 2012 at 9:13 AM

The pipeline will be built. The Canadian firm that wants to build Keystone is planning a pipeline from Montana to Louisiana. They don’t need federal permission to do that and once the new president is in office, they will build the connector from Alberta to Montana. Obama will find a way to screw it up though, just wait!

Boats48 on January 21, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Connect the dots….GM makes Volts, you know electric cars “Detroit” is being turned back into farmland…..The Pipeline would make “Fossil Fuel” more accessible for gas powered autos. That would probably revive Detroit’s industrial hub.

There is no way to run an economy the size of the United States on Rainbows, Rushing Wind, and Unicorn Farts. The sooner people figure out that we are harboring our own demise in the form of primitives, the better chance we have to stop their agenda.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.” W. Durant.

Dr Evil on January 21, 2012 at 9:15 AM

Guess who is getting the blame?????!!!!
========================================

More:

President Obama says Republicans ‘forced’ his decision
*********************************************************

to reject permit for major oil pipeline

– APStory metadata:
======================

Obama:

Keystone decision not a judgment on pipeline merits, but arbitrary nature of deadline;

GOP forced decision
************************

- APStory metadata:
Submitted Jan. 18, 2012, 3:32 p.m. by editor

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/keystone-pipeline-debate

canopfor on January 21, 2012 at 9:16 AM

If we go back to the Stone Age, the greenies would be the first to be quieted, followed by the Left.

Hunter-gatherers would have no time for any interference.

OldEnglish on January 21, 2012 at 8:47 AM

Yup, there’ll be hair on the rock.

tpitman on January 21, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Watertown – you are correct that refinery capacity used to be a problem but this not the case today

Ditka3 on January 21, 2012 at 9:22 AM

watertown on January 21, 2012 at 9:13 AM

I somewhat agree, since really only the most professorial among us can explain the whole Keystone “sand oil?” dealie. But China wants it. Knee-jerk tells me it must be plenty valuable.

Sheesh. I’ve only just understood the whole Natural Gas “fracking” thing.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 21, 2012 at 9:23 AM

It’s not Lenin-Stalin style communism nor Mao style communism. It’s Pol Pot style communism.

rbj on January 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

canopfor on January 21, 2012 at 9:16 AM

Oh for heaven’s sake, the spin is disgusting. Nothing is ever Obama’s fault.

Fallon on January 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

How far back in time do we have to go before the environmental extremists are happy? Neolithic,paleolithic the dawn of history?

celtic warrior on January 21, 2012 at 8:53 AM

I believe the term you are looking for is “singularity”.

Witness the post-apocalyptic docu-porn on National Geographic, etc.

These greenies can’t wait for the human race to retreat from civilization back to the tidal pools.

turfmann on January 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

O/T,I’m shocked!!
——————-

Egypt protests Official results show Muslim Brotherhood party has won majority in Egyptian parliamentary elections
************************************************

@SkyNewsBreakStory metadata:
Submitted 19 mins ago by editor
http://www.breakingnews.com/

canopfor on January 21, 2012 at 9:27 AM

It’s not about oil, or even energy, per se.

It’s about empowering Luddites.

locomotivebreath1901 on January 21, 2012 at 9:28 AM

canopfor on January 21, 2012 at 9:16 AM
Oh for heaven’s sake, the spin is disgusting. Nothing is ever Obama’s fault.

Fallon on January 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Fallon:Yup,da Evil RightWingers keep putting door-stops in his
way!!

canopfor on January 21, 2012 at 9:29 AM

Wouldn’t it be nice to actually have some sanity again in
governmental decisions? We voters have to make it happen.

VBMax on January 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

How are we to process this into fuel? When was the last time a new refinery was built that did not process corn?

Getting the oil is only one part of the problem and will not do no good if you can not expand the capacity to take on more oil.

watertown on January 21, 2012 at 9:13 AM

That’s why the pipeline goes to the gulf. That’s where the refineries are.

On a side note, I heard Rush complaining about a large refinery being forced to shut down on the U.S. Virgin Island of St. Croix due to EPA (over) regulation.

zmdavid on January 21, 2012 at 9:31 AM

Heres a great line,from CEO Jack Gerard,of American Petreleum Institute!

“This is a clear abdication of leadership on the part of the President.

How can you say that you are for jobs and reject the

Largest Shovel Ready Job in America.
*************************************

Mr. President, what are you thinking?

Via:

Obama Caves To Daryl Hannah
Jan 18 2012
************

http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/01/18/obama-bows-sheiks-kills-american-jobs

canopfor on January 19, 2012 at 3:36 AM

canopfor on January 21, 2012 at 9:32 AM

Back to a Hunter-Gatherer society….I’ll be hunting liberals, lefties and commies and gathering up their spoils…

PatriotRider on January 21, 2012 at 9:33 AM

I attended a talk by a petroleum geologist last year, and he said only in W. Europe and the US are the people disgusted that they have access to oil and gas. Our wealth has given us the luxury to be finicky, but I think that’s over. Now we can’t afford not to use cheap efficient sources.

juliesa on January 21, 2012 at 9:35 AM

What some of you are missing is one big factor.

watertown on January 21, 2012 at 9:13 AM

What you are missing is this. “Don’t worry about the horse going blind, just load the damned cart!”

Oldnuke on January 21, 2012 at 9:37 AM

This is what Alinskyite socialists do: create destruction and then claim you’re “creating”.

RebeccaH on January 21, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Don’t forget the Union angle!!
———————————-

Unions split on Obama rejection of Keystone pipeline
20 January 2012
*****************

WASHINGTON – Union leaders split on President Barack Obama’s Jan. 18 denial of a federal permit to build the 1,700-mile Keystone XL oil pipeline from the U.S.-Canada border to the Texas Gulf Coast. Construction unions called Obama’s ruling a “job killer,” but at least five unions sided with environmental groups against Keystone.

Environmental groups strongly opposed the pipeline because they said it would pump bitumen-laden “dirty oil” from Albertan tar sands to the Gulf Coast, increasing the pollution that leads to global warming. The Transport Workers, Steel Workers, Communications Workers, Auto Workers and Service Employees sided with them.

Construction union presidents were particularly upset as four unions signed a project labor agreement with TransCanada several years ago to use unionized labor to build Keystone. At that time, the unions calculated the pipeline’s construction would employ 20,000 workers directly and many more thousands of people indirectly.

But an environmental impact statement by the State Department, which evaluated Keystone since it crossed the international border, put the construction job figure at 5,000-7,000. Still, it meant jobs, and Obama’s decision led Laborers President Terry O’Sullivan and Building Trades Department President Mark Ayers to warn the decision could cost Obama votes.

“The score is Job-Killers, 2, American workers, 0,” said O’Sullivan. “We are completely and totally disappointed. This is politics at its worst.

“Once again the president has sided with environmentalists instead of blue collar construction workers, even though environmental concerns were more than adequately addressed. Blue collar construction workers across the U.S. will not forget this,” he said, calling environmentalists’ links of Keystone to global warming “disingenuous.”
(More….)
============

http://www.workdayminnesota.org/index.php?news_6_5110

canopfor on January 21, 2012 at 9:40 AM

If we go back to the Stone Age, the greenies would be the first to be quieted, followed by the Left.

Slow-roasted leftie…..mmmm…mmmm….good.

BobMbx on January 21, 2012 at 9:40 AM

How far back in time do we have to go before the environmental extremists are happy? Neolithic,paleolithic the dawn of history?

celtic warrior on January 21, 2012 at 8:53 AM

Those you speak of will never be happy. That said it won’t be necessary to go back quite that far. We only need to get to the point that we no longer have the resources to waste on useless unproductive slugs. At that point they will no longer be tolerated and it’s obvious that they cannot survive on their own.

Oldnuke on January 21, 2012 at 9:40 AM

How far back in time do we have to go before the environmental extremists are happy? Neolithic,paleolithic the dawn of history?

celtic warrior on January 21, 2012 at 8:53 AM

Walking on all fours.

TugboatPhil on January 21, 2012 at 9:45 AM

I think that there would be more support if there was less talk about jobs, and just a few explanations about what “oil sands” is. People are naturally skittish about the unknown. Who can simplify this mess?

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 21, 2012 at 9:46 AM

The opponents of hydrocarbon based energy don’t want a return to the stone age. Most of the opponents of hydrocarbon energy desire nothing more than a sharp rise in hydrocarbon prices that will suddenly make the alternative energies seem more affordable, which they believe will translate into the use of less hydrocarbons. The view is fundamentally flawed and I empatize with those who believe this as victims. The reality is the rise in world energy demand will require all energy sources to fill. There is a place for wind/solar/nuclear, but its place will always be(the next 100 years at least) not to replace hydrocarbon use, but to be additive to hydrocarbon use.

lcchamp on January 21, 2012 at 9:47 AM

Does the proposed pipeline route go through any blue states? Or does it only go through red states? If they had an all-blue-state route, would The O have approved it?

john1v6 on January 21, 2012 at 9:48 AM

The thing I don’t understand is how Obama can slow down the process but ultimately get the Canadian oil. Wouldn’t PM Harper have to be involved in this little scheme? That hardly seems wise. I guess things like this move so slowly that there is plenty of time to jerk around the larges number of people.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 9:48 AM

celtic warrior on January 21, 2012 at 8:53 AM

I assume the Ice Age, they love them some global cooling.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Spot on Mr. Shaw.

Not much to add other than you’re uncomfortably correct.

Agenda 21

Speakup on January 21, 2012 at 9:51 AM

I still don’t understand where in the Constitution that Executive is given the authority to invest taxpayer funds into “venture socialism” projects.

Texlib on January 21, 2012 at 9:51 AM

“If this was a high-speed rail it would have been half way built.”
you mean half way funded with tax payer dollars…

mjbrooks3 on January 21, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Do the Saudis own the Presidency?

How else to explain the decades of whining about energy independence but it never happening? And the. After the President of either party leaves office for some reason MILLIONS are given to build Presidential libraries and Foundations by…….wait for it…….the Saudi Royal family and their connections.

This President is the “decline manager” for the US (the DOTUS) and thanks to the voters of SC we apparently want a serial alduterer to run against him.

God help us.

PappyD61 on January 21, 2012 at 9:56 AM

If Keystone XL had been a high speed rail line, it would be half way built

Nonsense! It would be even less likely to be built.

In addition to Canada and Alberta there would be several states to deal with. None of those entites is as disfunctional as California, but together they would allow Obama to make a moras of the conglomerant.

The costs would have escalated before even getting a right of way by a much bigger factor than the three associated with California’s high speed rail project.

burt on January 21, 2012 at 9:56 AM

If we did away with coal, we could not produce either steel or portland cement so we could not produce high speed rail. If we do away with petroleum and natural gas, we would wipe out the chemical industry including many medicines, a large fraction of fertilizers, and nearly all plastics. Our population would be reduced to a small fraction of its current state in order to have enough food per capita.

burt on January 21, 2012 at 10:11 AM

celtic warrior on January 21, 2012 at 8:53 AM

I assume the Ice Age, they love them some global cooling.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Heh, I’m reading a book dealing with that very thing right now. It’s a novel by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle and Michael Flynn called Fallen Angels. Here’s a Wiki link. If you’re a SciFi fan you’ll probably get a kick out of the book. If you’re not then a lot of the references will be a little mystifying. Still a pretty good read.

Oldnuke on January 21, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Oldnuke on January 21, 2012 at 10:12 AM

I’ll have to see if my daughter would like that. Sounds right up her ally. Except the Proxmire character, I don’t remember much but the word doofus seems to hang in the air.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Except the Proxmire character, I don’t remember much but the word doofus seems to hang in the air.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Proxmire was an actual US Senator from Wisconsin. He’s the guy that started the “Golden Fleece Award” for wasteful spending. He was Joe McCarthy’s predecessor.

Oldnuke on January 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

If we go back to the Stone Age, the greenies would be the first to be quieted, followed by the Left.

Slow-roasted leftie…..mmmm…mmmm….good.

BobMbx on January 21, 2012 at 9:40 AM

Actually, no. Slow-roasting can’t fix the fact that lefties are bitter.

climbnjump on January 21, 2012 at 10:33 AM

If Keystone XL had been a high speed rail line, it would be half way built.

*glances at articles about CA high speed rail*

Are you sure about that? From what I can see the cost would have gone up by a factor of 3, it would have been re-routed through MN and possibly MT, and then have to meander around every minor ‘wetland’ which is to say ‘swamp’ and ‘bog’ land, and then get another blue ribbon panel together to say what it might actually cost.

The private sector would have had it BUILT BY NOW.

Keep such infrastructure out of the public sector, please.

ajacksonian on January 21, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Folks, I know MIttens is awful, but really, things like this are so bad we are going to have to vote for him anyway. Let’s get him elected and then primary him in 2016 if he so much as sneezes to the left.

HTnFBCoachnTX1980 on January 21, 2012 at 10:36 AM

These people don’t intend to put themselves back in the Stone Age. They intend to put the rest of us there.

Like free speech, this is a one way street.

jukin3 on January 21, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Only thing I’d add is that I’ve read in many accounts–even by those on the right–that stopping the pipeline is Obama pandering to the left in order to get re-elected.

And I don’t believe that for a minute.

Obama is out to come as close as possible to dismantling all phases the domestic oil and gas industry as he can. He’s acting on his core principles here. The only political consideration there ever was in this was the leaving open the possibility the pipeline might get built until he tries to kill it for good and all after the election.

Also, I’m pretty sure Proxmire succeeded McCarthy.

Typhoon on January 21, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Also, I’m pretty sure Proxmire succeeded McCarthy.

Typhoon on January 21, 2012 at 10:39 AM

And of course you’re right. I had a momentary spell of HUA syndrome. They seem to come more frequently these days, I must be getting older.

Oldnuke on January 21, 2012 at 10:44 AM

The thing I don’t understand is how Obama can slow down the process but ultimately get the Canadian oil. Wouldn’t PM Harper have to be involved in this little scheme? That hardly seems wise. I guess things like this move so slowly that there is plenty of time to jerk around the larges number of people.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 9:48 AM

I think since Harper figured that given statements in the past about it’s seemingly being a foregone conclusion that the pipeline getting approved, he simply chalked up delays to internal wrangling and environmental red tape. I don’t think even he suspected that the United States with it’s current abysmal economy would turn around and not only say no to it’s greatest trading partner after leaving them spinning in the wind for half a decade on this farse of a process, but to also shoot themselves in the foot economicly, by taking oil from not an ally and friend in the world, but instead from Chavez and people in the sandy countries that routinely murder family members because they’ve been raped.

The fact is Canada isn’t waiting for Keystone as a be all end all. The company TransCanada is still going to try and get approval, just becuase they have so much riding on this but there’s also the Northern Gateway pipeline which is being built and it’s going directly from the oilsands to the west coast, and from their to export markets in asia via tanker.

darkannulus on January 21, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Dr Evil on January 21, 2012 at 9:06 AM

My comments on that post have been repeatedly rejected.
As a former Detroiter and current Michigander who witnessed first-hand the Industrial Revolution and subsequent “Rust Belt” that made Detroit, I am perplexed. Not PC, eh? Neighborhood gardens and Ayn Rand? I guess “Dr. Evil” rules the board. Congrats.
May I post it again? If not, just ban me and get it over with.

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 21, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Oldnuke on January 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Just went to Wiki, he was not who I was picturing in my mind. Seems funny for a Democrat to have that much animosity towards science. Today they couldn’t hand out Golden Fleece Awards, they would have to hand out, Finally Something that makes Sense Awards. Smaller field.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 10:47 AM

If Keystone XL had been a high speed rail line, it would be half way built

No! It would be grossly underfunded and 10 times over budget, not one foot of track would have been laid and the only route that would conform to “environmental” requirements would be a route nobody would travel.

jdkchem on January 21, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Obama is out to come as close as possible to dismantling all phases the domestic oil and gas industry as he can. He’s acting on his core principles here. The only political consideration there ever was in this was the leaving open the possibility the pipeline might get built until he tries to kill it for good and all after the election.

Typhoon on January 21, 2012 at 10:39 AM

+1

climbnjump on January 21, 2012 at 10:49 AM

I must be getting older.

Oldnuke on January 21, 2012 at 10:44 AM

I prefer to look upon it as gaining seniority. :)

OldEnglish on January 21, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Let’s build a high speed rail over the pipeline!

ProfShadow on January 21, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Karl Magnus on January 21, 2012 at 10:47 AM

It sounds like you are getting caught up in the computer filters, not Dr. Evil. I tried to make a remark about the Industrial Rev01ution once and it took me four tries to catch on.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 10:53 AM

I’ve often said there’s nothing progressive about progressives. They should be called “regressives”. Look at their policies and find one forward-looking idea. Sun power? Really? I’m pretty sure sun and wind were used long before electricity. “Leading from behind“? What a ridiculous and backward notion.

I also suggested right after the “postponement” of the project that [amazingly, followed the exact script written by campaign-happy democrats the moment the 60-day decision stipulation was reported] TransCanada should have proposed the oil be transported by high speed rail rather than by pipeline; progressives would have been confused speechless.

BKeyser on January 21, 2012 at 10:53 AM

A radical muslim trying to destroy America from within…is anyone really suprised?

wheelgun on January 21, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Heh, from the biggest jail cell on the planet. Do you read? realize it is easier to vent than read. For example the ground water contamination issues, the law suits from the oil industry? I wonder why mods on here do not tacke the root of this probem?

I was really suprised Obama was considering not allowing it to go forward, so I decided to read more about it. What they are saying is the rout of the pipeline will cause serious water contamination issues for millions on people in one state and there are huge law suits from the oil refinary industry

residentblue on January 21, 2012 at 10:54 AM

darkannulus on January 21, 2012 at 10:46 AM

It all seems like a big game, can Obama take the chance that Canada will go to China? Or is there enough product that they can service both countries?

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Heh, from the biggest jail cell on the planet. Do you read? realize it is easier to vent than read. For example the ground water contamination issues, the law suits from the oil industry? I wonder why mods on here do not tacke the root of this probem?

I was really suprised Obama was considering not allowing it to go forward, so I decided to read more about it. What they are saying is the rout of the pipeline will cause serious water contamination issues for millions on people in one state and there are huge law suits from the oil refinary industry

residentblue on January 21, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Reading fiction does not make it become fact. Like most leftists you believe only your own drivel.

climbnjump on January 21, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Spot on Mr. Shaw.

Not much to add other than you’re uncomfortably correct.

Agenda 21

Speakup on January 21, 2012 at 9:51 AM

I’ve been shy about bringing that subject up.
BUT, since you’ve ‘broken the ice’:
The EPA has ALWAYS been a tool of the “One Worlders” to strip the U.S. of it’s industrial might and technological advantage.

The independence and superiority of the U.S. is THE ONLY THING standing in the way of the ‘ultimate agenda’ being advanced by Mike (Gorbechev), Maurice (Strong), and George (Soros).

They are of course, not alone in their efforts.

This is what the U.S. is up against.

listens2glenn on January 21, 2012 at 11:08 AM

First, I haven’t read the whole thread. But why are the ranchers in Nebraska against a pipeline? I recall Nebraska winters as being pretty impressively cold (I lived in Iowa, and my first year there we had a December storm that dumped well over a foot of snow, not to mention the -20 temps with another -50 of wind chill). It may not work as well underground, but I had read that the herds of caribou in Alaska have thrived because of the heat from the pipeline during the winter. So wouldn’t it be good for standard beef cattle who are a lot stupider and can’t find food under the snow?

LibraryGryffon on January 21, 2012 at 11:08 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aukM01UFXh0

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 11:08 AM

It all seems like a big game, can Obama take the chance that Canada will go to China? Or is there enough product that they can service both countries?

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 10:55 AM

It is a sort of game. Oil is a fungible commodity, doesn’t particularly matter where it’s produced, it’s bought, sold and traded everywhere and you end up buying it from whomever sells it to you. The Chinese will be happy to sell us Canada’s oil. With their (the Chinese) mark-up.

de rigueur on January 21, 2012 at 11:11 AM

A radical muslim trying to destroy America from within…is anyone really suprised?

wheelgun on January 21, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Right. His actions are consistent with his “muslim faith,” as he called it.

GaltBlvnAtty on January 21, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 10:55 AM

This chart shows just one province, Alberta. The Athabasca oil sands (the name of the largest formation) are mostly located there, but also spread into Saskatchewan and the Northwest territories, that doesn’t even cover conventional (Saskatchewan and BC) and offshore reserves like those in Hibernia off Newfoundland plus the incredible amounts of natural gas that Canada has.

Despite what the modern luddite’s say, peak oil is a long way off, it’s just the drill a hole-suck up with a straw stuff that’s getting close to being depleted. Enviro-cultists figure extraction technology is static and thus reserves are static, but processes like Fracking and in-situ steam injection into formations can be used on these hard to get to oil-sands and even in some conventional fields that were thought to be depleted but are producing again.

darkannulus on January 21, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Is there any doubt but that this administration is still shooting for $8/gal. gas?

GFW on January 21, 2012 at 11:14 AM

If we go back to the Stone Age, the greenies would be the first to be quieted, followed by the Left.

Hunter-gatherers would have no time for any interference.

OldEnglish on January 21, 2012 at 8:47 AM

Do greenies count towards Michelle’s daily vegetable requirements?

Mo_mac on January 21, 2012 at 11:17 AM

My deviations from standard conservatism are almost all due to my ecological stance. I am deeply committed environmentalist. Yet, the Keystone decision can fairly be described as insane. It is all costs and no benefits. In particular, there is a net cost to the environment from not building this pipeline. Yet, the “environmental” groups support it. I attribute this to the destructive influence of leftism on environmentalism. Whatever leftism touches–race relations, the fate of the poor, the future of the economy–it destroys. The leftist takeover of environmentalism doesn’t meant environmentalism is wrong or that core parts of environmentalism shouldn’t become parts of conservatism. It should just remind that leftism poisons everything.

thuja on January 21, 2012 at 11:18 AM

If we go back to the Stone Age, the greenies would be the first to be quieted, followed by the Left.

Hunter-gatherers would have no time for any interference.

OldEnglish on January 21, 2012 at 8:47 AM

Do greenies count towards Michelle’s daily vegetable requirements?

Mo_mac on January 21, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Sadly, no. The greenies of which you speak are spoiled.

climbnjump on January 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM

de rigueur on January 21, 2012 at 11:11 AM

I get the fungible but we don’t get the short term jobs for the build and I assume there will be some long term employment for upkeep and production. Not a big fan of Chinese surcharges either, but that’s just me.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 11:29 AM

1) So it’s better for the environment for less sophistication nations like Saudi Arabia to drill more than for Canada to drill?

2) So it’s better for the environment to ship the oil from around the world to here, burning lots of oil to do it, with risk of spill anywhere along the way?

3) So it’s better for the environment for Canada to ship their oil to China (see 2) than to pipe it here?

itsnotaboutme on January 21
==================
Very well stated and a very good place for the Repubs to get out and about and spreading the word. Where is John Boehner? Where is McConnell?

I’m sure they’ll be on the Sunday shows spreading the word.

patfish on January 21, 2012 at 11:29 AM

There are actually people saying this, oblivious to the fact that earthquakes are caused by shifts in the Earth’s tectonic plates.)

Um, seismologists know what causes earth quakes. The contention made by some is that fracking affects shifts in the earth’s tectonic plates. Regardless, your contention is fallacious, ignoring the possibility that earthquakes might have more than one cause.

vermin on January 21, 2012 at 11:30 AM

thuja on January 21, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Nicely said.

The Marxism and fanaticism in today’s environmentalism has definitely turned me off. I used to work in the environmental field and soon found out that most of the work I was doing was to protect companies from lawsuits by fanatical leftists and had nothing to do with protecting the environment which as it turned out wasn’t being harmed to begin with.

darwin on January 21, 2012 at 11:30 AM

darkannulus on January 21, 2012 at 11:13 AM

But it’s so yucky!

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 11:31 AM

“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse?
Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”

—Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environmental Program – Opening speech, Rio Earth Summit, 1992

Yup. They believe it, and are working toward that goal.

iurockhead on January 21, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Sadly, no. The greenies of which you speak are spoiled.

climbnjump on January 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM

If you smoke and salt them they still taste ok.

darwin on January 21, 2012 at 11:32 AM

thuja on January 21, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Doesn’t it seem like our current forms of energy could concentrate on being more efficient and cleaner if they weren’t constantly fighting for their lives? Ever changing technology has made great strides already.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Industrial Rev01ution

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Thanks for the heads up re: history = obscenities.
Who woulda thunk it, eh?
(sigh)

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 21, 2012 at 11:35 AM

There is a war on in SE Minney and west central Wisconon about “frac sand”.

The area is rich in the perfectly round grains that make the best hydro-fracking sand.

The Greenies have succeeded in placing moratoriums on mining in a number of the counties and are gearing up for an all out, GASLAND style attack on frac sand mining.

I just hope I’ll be able to burn their furniture , Dr, Zhivago style, to keep my frozen ass warm when the mercury hit’s 20 below some night in the not too distant future.

Bruno Strozek on January 21, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Karl Magnus on January 21, 2012 at 11:35 AM

You would be amazed at the words that are filtered. The name of a large furry Star Wars character was added(maybe even a Star Trek Lt.) due to the rude correlation of said character to current First Lade. Most unfortunate.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Is one of the reasons that Obama vetoed this is because the majority of those states involved voted against him in 2008???

If the pipeline went down the east or west coasts (Obama states) would he have okayed it?

Seems like all the political favors are going to “Friends of Obama” states.

albill on January 21, 2012 at 11:43 AM

albill on January 21, 2012 at 11:43 AM

If that’s true it is taking petty to new heights.

Cindy Munford on January 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM

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