Open thread: Thunderdome

posted at 7:35 pm on January 19, 2012 by Allahpundit

8 p.m. ET on CNN. The last remaining obstacle to Romney running the table is Gingrich’s last-minute surge in South Carolina, so yes, this is in fact the most important debate of the campaign. Now that Perry’s out, it’ll also be the debate with the fewest participants, which means extra time for answers and bloodsport. Three questions. One: Will Gingrich bring up Romney’s offshore investments? The Democrats are already prepping an attack about that, and you know how much Newt’s campaign enjoys borrowing Democratic talking points about Bain — whether they’re fair or not. Two: Who does Santorum attack? Newt is his big problem in consolidating the conservative vote, but unless Newt implodes over the next 36 hours (always possible but not probable), there’s no chance Santorum will vault into contention in SC. If he spends the debate tearing Gingrich down, all he’s really doing is helping to carry Romney over the finish line.

Three: How much time, if any, will be spent on Gingrich’s ex claiming he wanted an “open marriage”? And if it does come up, how aggressive will/can Newt be in pushing back against her? Via Matt Lewis, this tidbit from today’s New York Post is intriguing:

In 1995, when Vanity Fair magazine asked Marianne what would happen if Newt ran for president, she boasted she could derail the bid with a single TV interview.

“He can’t do it without me,” she said.

“I told him if I’m not in agreement, fine, it’s easy.

“I just go on the air the next day, and I undermine everything . . . I don’t want him to be president, and I don’t think he should be.”

Was she … joking? She said that to Vanity Fair three years before she found out about Newt’s affair, so it wasn’t an embittered reaction to his infidelity. Follow the link to Lewis’s post and see what his source has to say about it. Also, according to the AP, Newt wasn’t the only party to the marriage capable of making devastating announcements over the phone:

Documents related to the divorce filed Friday in Cobb County Superior Court include a separation agreement signed by the couple and notarized in December 1987. There is no indication it was ever filed.

Browning said Marianne Gingrich called her husband on his birthday in June 1987 to tell him she was leaving him. Gingrich, he said, came back to Georgia to find his home emptied out.

He’s not going to bring any of that up tonight, obviously. It’s too risky to attack the aggrieved spouse you cheated on, even if she started attacking first, so he’ll leave that to his campaign surrogates. Newt’s message will be (a) that he’s sought forgiveness from God and (b) you should, as always, be more angry at the media than at the Republican they’re reporting on. (For a response to that, watch Jenny Sanford’s appearance on “Hardball” today.) That’s good enough to get Blitzer to back off him, but what about Santorum and Romney?

Here’s the Hot Air/Townhall Twitter widget. If you missed it earlier, go read Bill Kristol’s tongue-in-cheek imagining of Mitch Daniels’s SOTU rebuttal next week. The dream of a late entrant to wake us from this Kafkaesque primary nightmare shall never die. Exit quotation for Daniels, Paul Ryan, Chris Christie, and Bobby Jindal: “Vada a bordo, cazzo.”



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Santorum was awesome all night and he had a great closing argument.

Makes a great case. Would make a great candidate who would do us proud. Clean past, good record, consistent, well spoken, intelligent.

Santorum would make a great President who would be an effective conservative who knows what he is doing.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:48 AM

Santorum use to get “feisty” on the senate floor. You do know that he co-authored the Welfare Reform Bill and was the person most responsible for getting it passed in the senate. Some of his speeches then were epic. He took on Kennedy and Moynihan. He also pushed through the ban on partial birth abortion and was instrumental in uncovering the House banking and post office scandals. I watched him take it to the democrats many times. While Newt is good at throwing out one liners, Santorum is an actual debater and he is relentless.

fight like a girl on January 19, 2012 at 10:42 PM

Agreed.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:50 AM

Look, can’t we all just agree that all of these candidates are awful? Whiskey anyone?

HTnFBCoachnTX1980 on January 20, 2012 at 12:41 AM

I am actually inspired by Newt many times. While not my first choice from all people I have knowledge of for president, he ranks up there in the top Ten people eligible that I would support for President.

Many of the names people bandy about today are tomorrows Rino’s as they grow in their new position of power. Newt was in Washington a long time, and at the end of his career he was working vigilantly to cut the power going to Washington. It is why he was found guilty on proven false charges of ethics violations. Every single one of the 75 charges the Democrats laid against him were found to be without merit. He was found guilty of having missed one sheet of paper with false information on it that his lawyer submitted under his name. Despite there being several other documents being submitted that had the correct information and the fact that Newt under questioning gave the correct information, the Republicans joined the democrats in finding him guilty and fining him $300,000. Why would they do such a dastardly thing? Because in his time as Speaker he reduced the impact of government on the people and took power away from the Republicans who thought it was their turn to wield it against the people instead of returning it to the people.

astonerii on January 20, 2012 at 12:51 AM

If Santorum as not our nominee, we are going to have trouble. We might still win with Gingrich or Romney, but there will be serious problems.

Plus Santorum would make the best President. Even tempered, well spoken, intelligent, effective and successful record, solid conservative with the guts and talent to preach it well and defend it and govern conservatively. Conservatism is in his soul and he’s been a quiet blessing to our side for years, way before the Tea Party.

Santourm can disagree without being disagreeable. He will debate Obama the best and come off as the most likable in the general. People often forget how important this is in the general with Independent voters. American want to like their President.

Independents and Reagan Dems will love his quiet but sincere and not boring personality and his blue collar politics and economic ideas. Against Obama, these voters will vote Santorum, pocketbook over social issues, every time.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:52 AM

karenhasfreedom on January 20, 2012 at 12:46 AM

After much hand-wringing, I’d just about decided that Newt was the best hope for conservatives in this final-four.

I think I’ve changed my mind: karenhasfreedom/2012

You got my vote.

TitularHead on January 20, 2012 at 12:58 AM

I know I wouldn’t be disappointed in Santorum as President and I know he wouldn’t give me a heart attack every other day as a candidate.

Unlike Romney and Gingrich.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:59 AM

I know I wouldn’t be disappointed in Santorum as President and I know he wouldn’t give me a heart attack every other day as a candidate.

Unlike Romney and Gingrich.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:59 AM

Well for one thing, if Santorum were our candidate and if he actually WON, it will be very amusing watching the popular culture, elitists, and lame stream media go apoplectic over Rick Santorum. They really don’t like people who are very black/white on the gay issue and will be besides themselves also with a very strong pro-life person in charge, too.

Good times.

karenhasfreedom on January 20, 2012 at 1:08 AM

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:52 AM

But can he handle the Press?

So far only Newt seems to know how to do that.

I am open to Santorum.

Steveangell on January 20, 2012 at 1:09 AM

I know I wouldn’t be disappointed in Santorum as President and I know he wouldn’t give me a heart attack every other day as a candidate.

Unlike Romney and Gingrich.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:59 AM

Well for one thing, if Santorum were our candidate and if he actually WON, it will be very amusing watching the popular culture, elitists, and lame stream media go apoplectic over Rick Santorum. They really don’t like people who are very black/white on the gay issue and will be besides themselves also with a very strong pro-life person in charge, too.

Good times.

karenhasfreedom on January 20, 2012 at 1:08 AM

lol I was thinking the same thing the other day. Their heads would spin. (almost as much as if Sarah Palin won.)

It would be fun to watch. They will try and destroy him, but people will find him a reasonable and likable person.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 1:13 AM

Danno, have you been here very long? I have become your fan in one night, just from 2 posts.

karenhasfreedom on January 20, 2012 at 12:36 AM

Dittoes!

I’ve had posting privelages here for at least 4 years but my time is usually spent working as a grass roots activist when not busy bringing home the bacon so I don’t post here as much as some.

You’ll be seeing me around. Not often, but as time permits. ;o)

DannoJyd on January 20, 2012 at 1:14 AM

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:52 AM

But can he handle the Press?

So far only Newt seems to know how to do that.

I am open to Santorum.

Steveangell on January 20, 2012 at 1:09 AM

I think he can handle the Press well. He’s had alot of experience in Washington and with the Press. And he is intelligent, well spoken, reasonable, likable and he knows the issues well.

Almost as smart as Newt, but not all over the place. Focused. Reliable. Effective. Newt will give me a heart attack.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 1:15 AM

Newt is starting to Bulldoze.

Some x going to stop him?

No way.

freedomplow on January 20, 2012 at 1:16 AM

Steveangell on January 20, 2012 at 1:09 AM

Also, remember that we all love when Newt takes down the Press, but in the general, those who aren’t as conservative might find his act over the top or arrogant or annoying after the first couple times.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 1:17 AM

Does Newt have issues and baggage? Sure, but I think his are not as insurmountable as Romney’s total lack of ability to empathize with and appear as a “normal” person.

Dubya was probably just as wealthy as Romney, and didn’t have 1/10th the intellect of either of them and yet he won two elections out of his ability to act like a “normal” guy.

tkyang99 on January 20, 2012 at 1:19 AM

Santorum is a pork loving, big spending regulator who is proud of all the regulations and goodies he got to bring back to PA. He has no executive experience. He will never get my vote. Newt gets it first, Romney gets it second. After that, I move to the Caribbean.

lonestar1 on January 20, 2012 at 1:22 AM

See you guys later. I’m going to say quits to politics for awhile, a long long while.

Hopefully Romney gets the nomination. If not, I’ll vote for the eventual GOP nominee in November, but as an Independent for the first time. Today is the day I came to an epiphany that I don’t really belong in the modern conservative movement. I couldn’t cheer and grunt along with the audience when Newt gave his tirade at the beginning of the CNN debate. It just didn’t feel right. All I could remember was Newt’s very own inquisition in the late 1990s. Yet the audience cheered for him and saw no hypocrisy, no dissonance.

Just took a walk outside and realized politics is sh!t, and all of us are pawns to this heaping pile. I have my own life to live.

haner on January 20, 2012 at 1:47 AM

haner on January 20, 2012 at 1:47 AM

Romney is the epitome of puppies ground in a mill to be turned into toxic waste with no usable by-product.

And no I don’t want to be in your f’ing party you ridiculous reprobate.

8D

tom daschle concerned on January 20, 2012 at 1:50 AM

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 1:15 AM

Santorum’s loss by 18% really bothers me. The Press crucified him over a smart decision to move his family half way to DC. Thing is his children’s education was still paid for legally by the State though a correspondence program. This is a very nasty game the Press loves to play against Republicans. You become Senator and your job requires you to spend most of your time in Washington DC most Senators move there. Yet the Press will ignore this and attack Republicans for doing it. He handled the situation so poorly he lost the election.

Steveangell on January 20, 2012 at 1:56 AM

Just got back in, haven’t read any comments yet, but watched most of the debate before going out.

I found Santorum insufferable and defensive, Mitt was pretty weird and unconvincing on the tax returns (even though I don’t think he should release them anyway unless as a precondition to publicly force Obama to release ALL of his college and immigration documents) RuPaul sounded a little less nutty than usual, but Newt pretty much solidified himself for me as the man to destroy Obama.

I hope all my family and friends in SC make a statement by pushing Newt over the top. He was not my first choice, but he was definitely my second choice, and Mitt just hasn’t won me over, at all.

Harbingeing on January 20, 2012 at 2:07 AM

haner on January 20, 2012 at 1:47 AM

Another Democrat rooting for Mitt. Having no understanding of Republicans and what the Press does to them.

I will register Independent if Mitt wins. Mitt is an “Independent Republican to the left of Democrats” (his words). His entire political career he helped Democrats win office, he ran as an independent Republican because the Democrat was not far enough left (even Teddy Kennedy). He won Gay Marriage, free or cheap Abortions, State controled health care (the Insurance companies have almost no choices in coverage, rates or who they cover), far more restrictive gun rights. Then in 2005 he decided to run for President so his verbiage changed to “Conservative Republican) but not his actions. The people tried to undo Gay Marriage Romney was never in support of the people and never condemned the unconstitutional ending of the constitutional convention called to end it. Sure he vetoed many bills to support “Conservative” knowing his deep friends would override him (wink wink).

Sorry but I do not ever elect someone who runs in 2004 as an “Independent Republican to the left of Democrats” then as a “Conservative Republican” in 2008. This is loony tunes to believe him.

Steveangell on January 20, 2012 at 2:10 AM

Harbingeing on January 20, 2012 at 2:07 AM

Wow, one of the few to see Santorum the way I did.

astonerii on January 20, 2012 at 2:18 AM

Just like all the other attacks on Gingrich, almost none of them stand up to scrutiny. If you do not want to vote for him, knock yourself out, but do not come around here with your holier than thou argument that we are some bunch of hypocrites because we were all in an uproar about Clinton’s provable lies told under oath.

astonerii on January 20, 2012 at 12:27 AM

I have been trying to think of a nice way to say what you just said. I think of myself as pretty conservative, but lately I have been thinking I wouldn’t pass the purity test around here. No one could. And it makes me wonder if the people throwing the stones are really that perfect or is it just a handy stick to beat Gingrich with?

Night Owl on January 20, 2012 at 2:21 AM

‘And who was in charge of the body that writes the budget the last time we had a balanced budget in this country?’ ‘Newt!’ ‘Who reformed welfare?’ ‘Newt!’ ‘Who brought the Clinton administration to heel?’ ‘Newt!’ ‘Who do we need in Washington?’ ‘Newt!’ ‘Who do we need making our case on that stage in a debate against President Obama in October and November?’ ‘Newt!’ ‘Who did you see last night was the only guy on the stage that was going to be able to go toe to toe with Chicago politics?’ ‘Newt!’

Who gets the credit for taking back control of the House after 40 years of Democrat control? NEWT!

You can keep your moderate GOP elitist’s RINO candidate. I’ll support the conservative man with the proven track record.

DannoJyd on January 20, 2012 at 12:02 AM

Someone is paying attention. THANK YOU.

riddick on January 20, 2012 at 2:27 AM

toss up

nparga23 on January 20, 2012 at 2:52 AM

It’s NEWT or BUST

tkyang99 on January 20, 2012 at 2:57 AM

Santorum is a big government conservative given his support of a watered down SOPA and other interventions for industries like manufacturing that he deems worthy of our tax dollars.

It sounds like crony capitalism and picking the winners and losers to me.

HellCat on January 20, 2012 at 4:04 AM

Wow, one of the few to see Santorum the way I did.

astonerii on January 20, 2012 at 2:18 AM

you’re not alone….he’s a whiner

cmsinaz on January 20, 2012 at 6:26 AM

My take.

kingsjester on January 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM

Welcome to the Third Reich

VorDaj on January 20, 2012 at 6:47 AM

Welcome to the Third Reich

VorDaj on January 20, 2012 at 6:47 AM

Your link Subject Title: AMA Journal: Make Participation In Vaccine Trials Mandatory

Actual AMA material Subject Title: Should Participation in Vaccine Clinical Trials be Mandated?

Subtle, but significant difference. And this from the AMA page: “The viewpoints expressed on this site are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the AMA.”

I belong to the “Obama’s Birth/Life Narrative As Told is Utter Crap and He Hasn’t Established his Bona Fides Vis a Vis Article II, Section I, Clause V Natural Born Citizenship Requirement” camp and I’m nevertheless not going down some eugenicistic InfoWars Lane tangent with you.

Get a grip.

Flotsam Jetsome on January 20, 2012 at 7:13 AM

Subtle, but significant difference.

/

Flotsam Jetsome on January 20, 2012 at 7:27 AM

All the candidates like bigger government solutions.

The question is: WHO is likely to support the least government. Who has been aFearless, Consistent Conservative. ALL of them have some legislative baggage, but who is the most LIKEABLE of the four?

The media is going to go all Greek column on us again so Obama will be Mister Likeable. So it’s going to be very hard for a gop candidate to win.

PappyD61 on January 20, 2012 at 7:38 AM

The media is going to go all Greek column on us again so Obama will be Mister Likeable.

PappyD61 on January 20, 2012 at 7:38 AM

I don’t think that’s going to be as easy a sell, this time around.

Flotsam Jetsome on January 20, 2012 at 7:43 AM

allahpundit RT @DanFosterNRO: Whoever your guy is, does it not seem at this point that Obama is more likely to be re-elected than it did a month ago?

conventional wisdom AP. funny. yeah, twice a week having one of these where BHOs policies are flayed non-stop for 2 hours, yeah, thats gotta help him. right.

t8stlikchkn on January 20, 2012 at 7:45 AM

I can’t believe Romney STILL didn’t have a strong, coherent answer on Bain and his tax returns. That part about releasing all of his returns at once didn’t even make sense. If he is the nominee he’s going to have serious problems, I’m afraid- he’s being very shortsighted about this stuff.

kg598301 on January 20, 2012 at 8:02 AM

My take.

kingsjester on January 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM

Romney’s stuttering and condescension are really turning me off, not that I ever liked him to begin with.

Newt is loaded for bear, and there is DEFINITELY a bear in the woods.

Nice story, KJ! My grandma was right, scratch a bully, find a coward.

Naturally Curly on January 20, 2012 at 8:03 AM

My two cents

Paul: Too Damn old and crazy
Santorum: Could not win his own re-election. No Passion
Newt: Can’t be trusted and a mean SOB
Romney: Our best Chance to beat Obama

Sparty on January 20, 2012 at 8:35 AM

Sparty’s $.02 debases The Constitution as too damn old and crazy. Refute this Congressional legislation sponsorship record.

maverick muse on January 20, 2012 at 8:45 AM

Romney is terrified by the focus on his tax returns. When he finally reveals his offshore money and that he makes money shorting the markets, he will truly be unelectable. He would love to wait until after the primaries to disclose his returns. The republicans would be foolish to let this happen.

Typhonian on January 20, 2012 at 8:47 AM

Santorum use to get “feisty” on the senate floor. You do know that he co-authored the Welfare Reform Bill and was the person most responsible for getting it passed in the senate. Some of his speeches then were epic. He took on Kennedy and Moynihan. He also pushed through the ban on partial birth abortion and was instrumental in uncovering the House banking and post office scandals. I watched him take it to the democrats many times. While Newt is good at throwing out one liners, Santorum is an actual debater and he is relentless.

fight like a girl on January 19, 2012 at 10:42 PM

Hey..I agree with that too!
I have always loved Santorum. But last night he went down a few notches in my book. He let himself become pressured. He was probably mad too.. for good reason.. that here he won in Iowa and never got to actually enjoy it. He probably felt, again, for good reason, his little victory was stolen from him and things might have been a different going into New Hampshire.

Santorum is a good guy. He has his place in conservatism and I hope he is a part of the next administration somewhere. But he blew it last night. He came off petty and bickering and sometime classless.

JellyToast on January 20, 2012 at 8:52 AM

My two cents

Paul: Too Damn old and crazy
Santorum: Could not win his own re-election. No Passion
Newt: Can’t be trusted and a mean SOB
Romney: Our best Chance to beat Obama

Sparty on January 20, 2012 at 8:35 AM

Paul, age don’t bother me, but crazy does.
Santorum, decent chap, but overmatched.
Newt, smart as hell and twice of devious, may not be the best candidate we could possibly get, but he is 1000% better than Willard “Mitt” Romeny!
Romney, if you think he’s the best chance you need to bash your skull against a brick wall. Obama wants Romney, the MFM wants Romney, every jackass wants that smarmy stuttering vampire-looking northeastern liberal idiot to be the GOP’s nominee. That alone ought to tell you something!

insidiator on January 20, 2012 at 8:54 AM

Hey..I agree with that too!
I have always loved Santorum. But last night he went down a few notches in my book. He let himself become pressured. He was probably mad too.. for good reason.. that here he won in Iowa and never got to actually enjoy it. He probably felt, again, for good reason, his little victory was stolen from him and things might have been a different going into New Hampshire.

Santorum is a good guy. He has his place in conservatism and I hope he is a part of the next administration somewhere. But he blew it last night. He came off petty and bickering and sometime classless.

JellyToast on January 20, 2012 at 8:52 AM

Jelly, No one is more classless and petty than Newt. If the GOP nominates this guy, Obama will shred him and the GOP will lose all the way down ballot.

Newt’s schtick of going after the press will not play on the general election. Look at the last two debates. He said nothing of substance. He led to the resurgence of the democrats in the 90′s. I know, I was there.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:02 AM

allahpundit RT @DanFosterNRO: Whoever your guy is, does it not seem at this point that Obama is more likely to be re-elected than it did a month ago?

But the election isn’t happening until after we have our nominee. A single candidate that all of us are going to rally around.
It’s going to be completely different when there is one guy, one single message that contrasts with Dear Leader.

Nobody is going to remember what happened these last few months by next fall. Obama is going to continue doing what he does… he’s already, according to Drudge, enforcing SOPA even though it doesn’t exist.
When I read Drudge last night before going to bed, I seriously own wondered what things were going to look like this morning when I woke up. If everything I read on Drudge last night was true, it’s a little scary.

JellyToast on January 20, 2012 at 9:03 AM

Santorum was awesome all night and he had a great closing argument.

Makes a great case. Would make a great candidate who would do us proud. Clean past, good record, consistent, well spoken, intelligent.

Santorum would make a great President who would be an effective conservative who knows what he is doing.

Elisa on January 20, 2012 at 12:48 AM

Wow.

Dante on January 20, 2012 at 9:05 AM

Santorum was the clear winner last night – he rocked it.

Newt was weak and diminished – Romney was a complete disaster and Ron Paul said something about shoeboxes and China.

Pork-Chop on January 20, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Oh where to begin …
So many comments and so little time:

Documents related to the divorce filed Friday in Cobb County Superior Court include a separation agreement signed by the couple and notarized in December 1987. There is no indication it was ever filed.

Browning said Marianne Gingrich called her husband on his birthday in June 1987 to tell him she was leaving him. Gingrich, he said, came back to Georgia to find his home emptied out.

A woman with any class wouldn’t do that, would she?

“He’s not going to bring any of that up tonight, obviously. It’s too risky to attack the aggrieved spouse you cheated on, even if she started attacking first, so he’ll leave that to his campaign surrogates.” – AllahP

“OOPS”
Another blown call, AP.
Newt eviscerated those who would tear him down.
Meanwhile, the boy Mittens smiles and thinks he has it sown up.
Sure
Give ‘em hell, Newt! I’m liking you more by the day.
I’ll never vote for Romney for anything. Hell, he’s already a Grand Poobah of his “church”. History matters, eh?
BTW … Santorum is going nowhere, so get over him, folks.
If Rick Perry can’t do it, Newton will.
Just UndØ it.

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM

If the GOP nominates this guy, Obama will shred him and the GOP will lose all the way down ballot.

Newt’s schtick of going after the press will not play on the general election. Look at the last two debates. He said nothing of substance. He led to the resurgence of the democrats in the 90′s. I know, I was there.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Seriously? Obama will shred Newt? Obama has no idea what the hell American history is.

Plus, most people dislike the media and know they’re simply a propaganda arm of the democrat party. They like when people stand up to their lies, disinformmation and bullying.

darwin on January 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Those who keep saying that Santorum lost his last election seem to forget that he won two state wide elections in a blue state. Gingrich NEVER won even one state wide election. And he was pushed out of the House by conservatives who felt he was betraying them.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Just took a walk outside and realized politics is sh!t, and all of us are pawns to this heaping pile. I have my own life to live.

haner on January 20, 2012 at 1:47 AM

Drink it in.
I think a lot of people are feeling the frustration of being juggled by political psychology.
Good luck..enjoy the simple things.

Mimzey on January 20, 2012 at 9:10 AM

darwin on January 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM

The election will not be decided by a debate. The Obama/Soros machine will have enough on Newt to go 24/7 and make the election about Gingrich. His schtick against the media will not work in the general. He will not be able to throw out a few one liners and win. He will actually have to say something of substance and that is something he has never done.

Newt is a mouthpiece, not a leader.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Obama has no idea what the hell American history is.

darwin on January 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM

I’m sure he has Howard Zinn’s ‘A Peoples History’ down pat. Could probably spit out some Gnome Chompy too.
/

Mimzey on January 20, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Accidentally posted this in the Santorum thread. I meant to put it here.

And, then there were four:

Mitt seems like a really smart guy who gets tangled up in Christmas lights and has no sense of humor about it.

Santorum and Gingrich remind me of Oscar Wilde’s quote:

“The only difference between the saint and the sinner is that every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future.”

I just don’t know what to think of Paul. His saner moments make me smile but they are usually followed by something strangely naive.

Fallon on January 20, 2012 at 9:16 AM

And he was pushed out of the House by conservatives who felt he was betraying them.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM

I seem to remember that time. I always thought, as it was happening, it wasn’t the conservatives as much as it was the RINO’s. He was a lightening rod. The media had been attacking him for 4 years consistently. He made some stumbles and that was all it took for the GOP to get rid of him and put a new nice friendly face on the GOP. They wanted to show they were all reasonable. They wanted to show America they could work with Democrats. They threw Newt under the bus.

JellyToast on January 20, 2012 at 9:16 AM

Drink it in.
I think a lot of people are feeling the frustration of being juggled by political psychology.
Good luck..enjoy the simple things.

Mimzey on January 20, 2012 at 9:10 AM

AMEN!

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:16 AM

The election will not be decided by a debate. The Obama/Soros machine will have enough on Newt to go 24/7 and make the election about Gingrich. His schtick against the media will not work in the general. He will not be able to throw out a few one liners and win. He will actually have to say something of substance and that is something he has never done.

Newt is a mouthpiece, not a leader.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:14 AM

The Obama/Soros machine will go after the nominee. It doesn’t matter if it’s Mitt, Newt, Rick or Ron. Each has their vunerable areas.

But the way to win is to go on the offensive against Obama. Go after his record, his past and his associations. Tell the public exactly who and what Obama is. I think Gingrich will do that.

I would like for once, someone who won’t back down and will strike first.

My bottom line however is ABO.

darwin on January 20, 2012 at 9:22 AM

I’m sure he has Howard Zinn’s ‘A Peoples History’ down pat.

Mimzey on January 20, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Of that I have no doubt.

darwin on January 20, 2012 at 9:22 AM

2100 comments.

Damn, and it’s not even a Palin related thread.

angryed on January 20, 2012 at 9:23 AM

Browning said Marianne Gingrich called her husband on his birthday in June 1987 to tell him she was leaving him. Gingrich, he said, came back to Georgia to find his home emptied out.

In an earlier post I said that my time practicing family law taught me important lessons, including this one–that one spouse is NEVER completely innocent and each spouse ALWAYS has some level of guilt for the break up. I know, some don’t like to admit it, but that is simply truth–I don’t care who the parties are.

Good for Newt for not getting down in the mud, when he clearly could. I wish more of my clients had shown some of that restraint . . . .

guitarman67 on January 20, 2012 at 9:25 AM

The election will not be decided by a debate. The Obama/Soros machine will have enough on Newt to go 24/7

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:14 AM

No shit. Just like it will go against Mother Teressa is she has an “R” next to her name in a campaign.

Difference is, unlike McCain/Romney, Newt will fight. He may not win. but he won’t lose curled up in a fetal position begging for mercy from Obama like McCain/Romney.

angryed on January 20, 2012 at 9:25 AM

My bottom line however is ABO.

darwin on January 20, 2012 at 9:22 AM

So.

Flotsam Jetsome on January 20, 2012 at 9:26 AM

They threw Newt under the bus.

JellyToast on January 20, 2012 at 9:16 AM

Exactly, it was a turning point in journalism/political discourse.
The Republican’s decided that they could not fight the wave of they understood as the “media”, not recognizing that it was the liberal media.
And for years, actually still to this day, they try to cozy up to the MSM by giving into the dems.
It’s not that they couldn’t stand Newt, they couldn’t stand, or understand, the pressure from the media.
Not until Tom Brokaw, and his famous AWOL false allegations, and other media fabrications that were uncovered and disclosed by the internet (and FOX News), have some of the Republicans finally been able to recognize what is happening.
Newt was railroaded out by the media, and the weak minded Republicans, who became RINO’s and not conservatives.
Imagine, allowing 83 congressional attacks, all 83 being dismissed, and the Republican’s basically stood by and let it happen.

right2bright on January 20, 2012 at 9:27 AM

Good for Newt for not getting down in the mud, when he clearly could. I wish more of my clients had shown some of that restraint . . . .

guitarman67 on January 20, 2012 at 9:25 AM

And I am sure you learned that the real victims are the children…who once again in this case, are drug back into a situation that they wanted to put behind them, and now the grand kids are in the mix…horrible what people will do, destroy a family for a few points of ratings.

right2bright on January 20, 2012 at 9:29 AM

JellyToast on January 20, 2012 at 9:16 AM

No, Newt was actually trying to compromise with the dems because he was upset that the media was going after him and there was the Clinton connection. He and Clinton started meeting and Newt became very compromising. It has been speculated that Clinton knew about Newt’s sexual escapades, which are more than just his affair with Calista, by the way.

If Newt gets the nomination, Clinton, Pelosi and all those who know about Newt are going to unload big time and believe me, it will matter.

Gingrich may be able to deflect this stuff in a republican debate by attacking the media but that won’t work in the general. Couple his sexapades with the liberal positions he has taken, his Freddie Mac involvement and all the other baggage, Newt has to be the democrats dream candidate.

You had better pray that Romney or Santorum gets the nomination or it is going to be a landslide win for the democrats.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:30 AM

People can’t we get beyond Thunderdome?

sandbagger on January 20, 2012 at 9:32 AM

Drudge’s survey as to who won last night currently shows Newt leading Mitt 42.13% to 16.64%. Paulnuts have stuffed the ballot box again to put him in second place in the survey.

kingsjester on January 20, 2012 at 9:33 AM

right2bright, so very true. I had disdain for the media before this incident, but it has now reached a whole new level. It sounds trite, but it also rings true–think about the kids, for God’s sake. No, the emotions of the innocent be damned, we have a Republican to destroy!

guitarman67 on January 20, 2012 at 9:37 AM

I love how some of think Newt will go after Obama. Newt is the only candidate on that stage who has praised Obama and who travelled around the country, on Obama’s behalf, with Sharpton to support Obama’s education policies.

When you think of how Newt would be in the general, think McCain. Only Newt would be fending off attacks 24/7.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Boy, was last night a wake up call. What a boring, clueless bunch on that stage,I see now Perry was the only one that made it bearable.
At least he did bring some excitement and new ideas.

Tn.-Vol on January 20, 2012 at 9:39 AM

guitarman67 on January 20, 2012 at 9:37 AM

What about Chelsea?

Did the republicans care about her?

I wish all of you would stop being so hypocritical. Either you are for moral values or you are not. And at least Clinton didn’t drag Chelsea on to a stage to shield himself like Gingrich did with his grandson.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:43 AM

2,163rd!

Sweet. I rock.

Bishop on January 20, 2012 at 9:44 AM

Did I attack Bill or Hillary in a TV interview in the 90s? I don’t remember doing that . . . but I guess it could have been during that drinking binge in law school, but I certainly don’t recall that episode . . . .

guitarman67 on January 20, 2012 at 9:47 AM

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:43 AM

clinton had sex with an intern in the oval office. newt had his sexual shenanigans on his own time, not the taxpayers. get over it sweetcheeks.

GhoulAid on January 20, 2012 at 9:49 AM

I wish all of you would stop being so hypocritical. Either you are for moral values or you are not. And at least Clinton didn’t drag Chelsea on to a stage to shield himself like Gingrich did with his grandson.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:43 AM

Don’t be foolish, Newt is running for office, he is not the President, who lied under oath, which to some is a crime.
And you don’t see Hillary to interviewed about the affairs now with Bill do you?
This incident with Newt happened over 10 years ago, and no he didn’t involve his kids than…however, the kids are older now and want to set the record straight.
It’s not “high morals” it’s dragging up old news, very old news that is not pertinent to what is happening now…record unemployment, not taking control of our energy crisis, horrible economy, gov. expansion, and you and others are worried about a divorce of over 10 years ago…amazing.

right2bright on January 20, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Harbingeing on January 20, 2012 at 2:07 AM

Wow, one of the few to see Santorum the way I did.

astonerii on January 20, 2012 at 2:18 AM

That is the way that I have looked at him also through this whole process. I am not against him by any stretch of the imagination but the way he comes off is a real turn off. Maybe it is the facial expressions that do it. I also so not think that his socon beliefs will get him anywhere from here on out not that I knock him for those either, just my opinion.

jistincase on January 20, 2012 at 9:57 AM

right2bright on January 20, 2012 at 9:27 AM

They did the same thing with Tom Delay. They threw their most effective leaders under the bus. That’s why we get people like Boenher. Personally, Boehenr is a nice guy I am sure. He’s not evil, not corrupt but he’s weak.

Was Newt in secret meetings with Clinton looking to appease Democrats like somebody posted here? Who the heck knows.
Heck, who really knows for sure what is going on. I’m not trying to sound like I know for sure Newt isn’t going to sell us out.. or that he’s for sure the best candidate. We only have what we have to choose from and it’s a sad state. But at least Newt has a record of conservatism. What does Romney have? It’s all a roll of the freaking dice.
Honestly, last night the guy that really shined for me was Ron Paul and he’s a fruitcake on foreign policy. If Ron Paul was our nominee, though, I could see him self destructing against Obama too.

We only got what we got and Newt is the best of 4 bad choices.
It is a stinking sorry state. But it is what it is.

JellyToast on January 20, 2012 at 10:10 AM

Republican Debates = BUDDS for Republicans (because their Mission Impossible is to go against the monster left which will say anything, pay off any liar, bury any news for their cause)

I liked Santorum. He did a lawyerly job and you could tell he was very angry with Newt which was maybe OK, but seemed a little outsized for a suggestion about dropping out which has been part of the primary process for time immemorial. THIS would have been a perfect opportunity for Rick to demostrate a sense of humor? He can be as dour as Romney, which is a general election problem. Dour lawyerly against hip, cool singer. But if I lived in SC, I’d be torn between Newt and Rick.

But then I’m the one who thinks we need Cal Coolidge and there is a part of me which distrusts Madison Ave. slick.

Gingrich was also a leader for reform when he was a young Congressman. I remember well his taking on Wright, and believe me, one didn’t take on Rayburn’s Texas brigade without consequences.

The news media wasn’t as blatant but you can be absolutely assured that they were as good at burying Democrat sins as they are now. And their only foil was Buckley and a fledgling Human Events.

Santorum was a reformer but I think he wrongly diminishes Gingrich’s early years. Gingrich was no more a “cave” to ideals than Santorum was when he had to vote his constituency. Zero gain for both on this.

Gingrich knocked it out of the park…again. Santorum was just a tad holier than thou-ish on the Marianne question, and he’s the one running as the most religious. Doesn’t compute Rick. I understand there’s a sleazy effort to get Santorum’s wife and I do believe the “throw the first stone” thing applies and if Santorum doesn’t understand the dynamic of interviewing an ex-wife who apparently did everything to destroy the marriage before the actual break-up, how can Santorum expect help with the sleaze-ball efforts against his wife? These are principles these four had best stand together on. Romney did much better on this issue.

Gingrich needed to punch back the expected Bain bait by pointing out Obama’s Bain appointment to OMB and look like he was pulling back. Newt’s weak on this.

Romney really failed again on the tax return questions when he was hit with the unexpected “give us what your dad gave”. He needs to be waaaaay better prepared for the curve balls and this makes me nervous. If he’s our nominee, I’ll have to buy that bottle of Scotch to get through the Obama debates. Who ARE his advisors? He needs much more saavy ones because the ones he has now are not preparing him and his responses are short of what’s needed. Liked his taking it to Obama on crony capitalism, Solyndra, etc. At moments like THAT I find a bit of comfort and then he reminds me he’s not quick in the moment and it scares me.

Ron Paul had some very good moments. I was rather impressed with his bid to explain going off the rails rhetorically. Ron Paul appeared SWEET (OK, Paulbots, don’t attack. But he did!)

I’m with Sarah Palin. We need more practice. Newt or Santorum need to win SC and goodness only knows which candidate needs the debate forum to counter punch the lefty media. (and Perry gets huge kudos for burying his ego for the good of the race…I’m impressed. Very impressed.)

Portia46 on January 20, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Ya Know …

Just took a walk outside and realized politics is sh!t, and all of us are pawns to this heaping pile. I have my own life to live.

haner on January 20, 2012 at 1:47 AM

Drink it in.
I think a lot of people are feeling the frustration of being juggled by political psychology.
Good luck..enjoy the simple things.

Mimzey on January 20, 2012 at 9:10 AM

That is one of the best posts I have read here re: this election cycle, mimzey.
Sage advice indeed. It has worked previously.

~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 20, 2012 at 10:15 AM

So many free of sin.
So many stones flying.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on January 20, 2012 at 10:18 AM

No, Newt was actually trying to compromise with the dems because he was upset that the media was going after him and there was the Clinton connection. He and Clinton started meeting and Newt became very compromising. It has been speculated that Clinton knew about Newt’s sexual escapades, which are more than just his affair with Calista, by the way.

If Newt gets the nomination, Clinton, Pelosi and all those who know about Newt are going to unload big time and believe me, it will matter.

Gingrich may be able to deflect this stuff in a republican debate by attacking the media but that won’t work in the general. Couple his sexapades with the liberal positions he has taken, his Freddie Mac involvement and all the other baggage, Newt has to be the democrats dream candidate.

You had better pray that Romney or Santorum gets the nomination or it is going to be a landslide win for the democrats.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:30 AM

This is not logical nor is it factual. The grumbling on the back bench from conservatives had to do with Gingrich not bringing front and center anti-affirmative action programs and eliminating the funding for Arts and Humanities. Ridiculous issues to spend all your political capital on. He resigned after the house lost 5 seats in the 1998 elections, which, frankly was almost entirely the result of impeaching Clinton and the press’s relentless attacks and characatures. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/govt/leadership/stories/gingrich110798.htm

And the oh, so conservative Tom Coburn led the assault against Gingrich—anyone accuse of Coburn of being a conservative lately. Gingrich was the fall guy for the election. And, BTW, Santorum, the Young Turk, became the judicious, mellow, non-rebel, cerebral senator only when he went to the Senate.

Nancy Pelosi and Clinton HATED Gingrich and if they had any mud to throw, they would have. Please recall that Gingrich was accused by his enemies of many a mis-deed and acquitted of all, which he should have been acquitted for.

Why do people and the press get away with such rewrites of history, particularly when it’s so recent? It’s like Marianne Gringrich who is the flapdoodle beotch in all this. She threatened to destroy Newt WHEN SHE WAS MARRIED TO HIM. I’m a woman and I’m fully, absolutely aware that vindictive wives/mistresses playing victim make all women look bad. Does anyone really believe the pitiful, put-upon ex-wife is doing this for the love of her country? I’m surprised Newt stayed with this disloyal witch for 18 years. Google (or Yahoo or even Ask) is your friend.

Portia46 on January 20, 2012 at 11:07 AM

CHARLESTON, S.C.—Newt Gingrich has cancelled a campaign appearance in South Carolina because of poor attendance.

The Republican presidential candidate was scheduled to speak to the Southern Republican Leadership on Friday. But a campaign spokesman told reporters that he would no longer be appearing due to poor attendance.

http://www.mercurynews.com/presidentelect/ci_19782823

TXGOP on January 20, 2012 at 12:05 PM

GINGRICH is a dirtbag; not someone to represent the USA to the world.
SANATORUM would be OK; but a little lightweight/inexperienced.
ROMNEY has it all; excellent representative to the world, proven business moxy, smart, excellent manager.

ROMNEY WOULD BE EXCELLENT.

enerwaste on January 20, 2012 at 12:36 PM

ROMNEY has it all; excellent representative to the world, proven business moxy, smart, excellent manager.

ROMNEY WOULD BE EXCELLENT.

enerwaste on January 20, 2012 at 12:36 PM

ROMNEY FOR CEO OF PAPA JOHNS PIZZA!!!

Mimzey on January 20, 2012 at 1:39 PM

When you think of how Newt would be in the general, think McCain. Only Newt would be fending off attacks 24/7.

fight like a girl on January 20, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Really? Of course he’s going to be fending off attacks. So will Romney, Santorum and Paul, only they’ll be specifically different for each candidate. Do you really think Obama will limit his attacks to evening prime time with them? Obama is going to be scorched-Earth with whomever the nominee is.

With Newt, it assumes he’s going to sit back and let it happen, as McCain did. I seriously doubt it. Newt will likely be as aggressive as he was last night, and possibly more so. I’m sure he knows what Obama/Axelrod & Co. are up to and he’s not going to take any sh!t from them.

PatriotGal2257 on January 20, 2012 at 1:55 PM

riddick on January 20, 2012 at 2:27 AM

Thank you for your support here and for being a patriotic American.

DannoJyd on January 20, 2012 at 3:39 PM

kingsjester on January 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM

Not too bad! Not too bad at all.

DannoJyd on January 20, 2012 at 3:44 PM

You sound like Rick Perry – “We don’t care what your name is, we gonna give you free college and ever’thang.”

Yeah, I’m really late to the thread. But there you go again with an outrageous falsehood again.

You must do this on purpose.

jazzuscounty on January 20, 2012 at 7:09 PM

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