Democratic Party economics: The “Reasonable Profits Board”
posted at 2:15 pm on January 19, 2012 by Ed Morrissey
In a perfect world, we’d be talking about this Democratic proposal in tonight’s CNN debate in South Carolina more than attacking private-equity strategies or discussing the personal lives of the candidates. Yeah, I know … but a man can dream, right?
Six House Democrats, led by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), want to set up a “Reasonable Profits Board” to control gas profits.
The Democrats, worried about higher gas prices, want to set up a board that would apply a “windfall profit tax” as high as 100 percent on the sale of oil and gas, according to their legislation. The bill provides no specific guidance for how the board would determine what constitutes a reasonable profit.
The Gas Price Spike Act, H.R. 3784, would apply a windfall tax on the sale of oil and gas that ranges from 50 percent to 100 percent on all surplus earnings exceeding “a reasonable profit.” It would set up a Reasonable Profits Board made up of three presidential nominees that will serve three-year terms. Unlike other bills setting up advisory boards, the Reasonable Profits Board would not be made up of any nominees from Congress. …
According to the bill, a windfall tax of 50 percent would be applied when the sale of oil or gas leads to a profit of between 100 percent and 102 percent of a reasonable profit. The windfall tax would jump to 75 percent when the profit is between 102 and 105 percent of a reasonable profit, and above that, the windfall tax would be 100 percent. The bill also specifies that the oil-and-gas companies, as the seller, would have to pay this tax.
First, a reality check is in order. While politicians like to hyperventilate over the gross dollar amounts of profit from oil companies, profit is most accurately measured as a percentage — the ratio of profits to the cost of producing those profits. Does the oil industry have a record of exploitive profit margins? Hardly. For 2009, the oil and gas industry ranked 9th on Fortune’s list with a margin of 10.2%, exactly half of that of the network/communications industry, which finished first in 2008 as well. In fact, the margin for oil/gas decreased by three and a half points between 2008 and 2009.
The 2009 list is actually rather instructive. Internet retail has a 19.4% margin, and no one in Congress would dare talk about seizing profits from Amazon (for instance) as “unreasonable,” even though the margin in that industry is almost twice that of oil/gas. That, however, highlights a pattern of politically-motivated outrage for Democrats on profit. Remember in 2009-10 when Nancy Pelosi and her fellow Democrats castigated insurance companies as “villains” who profited while Americans suffered? They finished 22nd on the Fortune list with a barely respectable 4.5% average profit margin.
So let’s put this in real terms. If the oil/gas industry had $500 billion in sales, then a 10.2% margin would be roughly $60 billion in profit — after investors spent $440 billion to generate those sales. Is that unreasonable? That’s a decision that should be left to the investors and the consumers who buy the product. Guess who gets excluded from the “Reasonable Profits Board”?
The bill would also seem to exclude industry representatives from the board, as it says members “shall have no financial interests in any of the businesses for which reasonable profits are determined by the Board.”
Well, there’s a prescription for sanity. Let’s have people who have no stake in the market determine what “reasonable” means.
Can someone please forward this to the campaigns for tonight’s debate?
Update: Bruce McQuain at QandO has a commenter who gets to the heart of the matter:
This is great- now we need a “Reasonable Spending Board” to monitor our Congress. We need a “Reasonable Ethics Board” to punish members of Congress who use their office to enrich themselves. A “Reasonable Taxation Board” to prevent the government from taking too much of our money.
Yes, let’s have the body that can’t even produce a balanced budget make determinations about “reasonable profit.”
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Only solution to this for Dems and RINOs, for tax ‘expenditures’ –
Tax Ireland!
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:03 PM
Shouldn’t O’bama be able to talk to some of his relatives over there and sort things out?
rightmind on May 21, 2013 at 8:09 PM
That is called “competition’. Something Obama understands about as well as he spells or pronounces common words.
pat on May 21, 2013 at 8:10 PM
Abolish the corporate tax. It isn’t even close to being worth having. Just make dividends part of income.
Count to 10 on May 21, 2013 at 8:11 PM
Don’t touch the Guinness…
d1carter on May 21, 2013 at 8:11 PM
Tax it like hell!
It’s costing American liberals spending money.
What are you — anti-American?
I bet you’d shoot a guy you might catch raping a woman, without knowing his circumstances and how he feels.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:15 PM
Since some of my companies do business offshore, I am as guilty as Apple, albeit on a comparatively infinitesimal scale, in setting up Irish holding companies that place company funds in American banks and other American-based financial vehicles. All perfectly legal.
Why, because I don’t wish to pay a single penny more in taxes, no matter to which government that’s involved. Why does Apple do it or, for that matter, any other huge publicly traded entity do it? Well, if they didn’t, they’d be open to shareholder suits for “wasting corporate assets” or shareholder “Change of Management” proxy fights at their next annual meeting, which would be prosecuted by some multi-billion dollar investment fund holders.
A publicly held company has a lot more scrutiny, due to its board’s fiduciary duty to shareholders, than does a simple, greedy bastard like me.
TXUS on May 21, 2013 at 8:18 PM
lol, He was just socially awkward and didn’t know how to ask politely.
arnold ziffel on May 21, 2013 at 8:19 PM
I hope you get filthy rich.
And never hire liberals.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:19 PM
I love to mention this sort of stuff to my Apple using lib friends.
How Apple uses foreign labor (toss in exploit for extra effect) and minimizes their tax exposure thru perfectly legal means.
Fun to watch them squirm.
Hill60 on May 21, 2013 at 8:20 PM
Ban St Patrick’s Day parades !!
burrata on May 21, 2013 at 8:20 PM
Kill a rapist, offend a liberal.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:21 PM
No! We can’t do THAT!
Tax it instead! See — a level playing field.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:23 PM
If following the law to avoid paying taxes is wrong, can we impeach Obama on the fact that he claimed deductions on his 1040?
malclave on May 21, 2013 at 8:27 PM
That’s funny. When Clinton made one of his returns public years ago, he wrote off his used undershorts at $2.50 each.
I don’t file a long form any more. But when I did, I never claimed my charitable donations. What I return to God does not leave me room to try getting back a piece of it.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:31 PM
I’d like to travel back into the past and bitchslap everyone involved in setting up LoN/UN
dmacleo on May 21, 2013 at 8:33 PM
Well, when your choice is paying the Irish 12.5% on offshore earnings vs. the IRS’s 35% on same, almost three times as much, this Texan’s ready to share a pint and a “top ‘o the mornin’ to ye.”
TXUS on May 21, 2013 at 8:33 PM
Great !
Now let them try to tax Cinco de Mayo parade ,
you know for a level playing field !!
burrata on May 21, 2013 at 8:33 PM
Long as ye buy the first pint, we celebrate!
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:35 PM
That would be racist, man. What is wrong with you?
The Irish aren’t a minority.
Why do I hang out with you people? /
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:37 PM
Nigh a problem, William. I’ll buy the pints, you bring the lassies.
TXUS on May 21, 2013 at 8:47 PM
Deal!
I have a thing for redheads. That okay there?
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:49 PM
Éirinn go Brách (or for my English friends, Erin go Bragh)
IrishEyes on May 21, 2013 at 8:52 PM
From an American of Scot lineage: Ciamar a tha thu?
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:55 PM
Tax Bono.
Ronnie on May 21, 2013 at 8:55 PM
That’s one way of looking at it, the other way of looking at it, is that by claiming the deduction, it provides more to give. i.e, if you are in the 28% bracket, if you don’t take the deduction, for every dollar you donate, you have to earn $1.39.
AZfederalist on May 21, 2013 at 8:57 PM
+1000
Out his a$$!
He’s nothing but an international panhandler in a Bond Street suit.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 8:58 PM
I’m no longer in position to itemize. But I have a personal religious view. I worked from there.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 9:01 PM
I do, too. If I get $100 bill from a bank (I hate $100 bills) I put it in the first charity box I see, wrapped in a $1. We’re not rich, rich. We just have a little breathing room. My philosophy is good deeds don’t count if you tell someone or claim it as a deduction. My accountant hates me… lol.
Fallon on May 21, 2013 at 9:06 PM
I’m of the view, as according to Scripture, that for what we do in private with the Lord, He will reward us openly.
I believe as you do.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM
Everybody needs to do what their conscience tells them. I think where one would get off track is if one were to give because it is tax deducttible.
AZfederalist on May 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM
… as far as giving without publicizing it; up until this week, I was under the impression that my charitable donations were completely private and that the IRS would keep those records private.
AZfederalist on May 21, 2013 at 9:13 PM
THAT describes a liberal.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 9:13 PM
Think about it — Bill Clinton deducted from his $2.50 a pair for his ‘donated undershorts, and we’re expected to think he’s somehow a ‘nice guy’?
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 9:18 PM
I’m in a bad mood all day.
Give me a troll to chew on.
Liam on May 21, 2013 at 9:21 PM
We do a lot of things wrong in Ireland
but the corporate tax rate was one of the things we did right
now the eurocrats want to take it away
breffnian on May 21, 2013 at 9:29 PM
Apple: “Hey Ireland how about a low tax rate?”
Ireland: Brilliant!
Apple: Brilliant!
BKennedy on May 21, 2013 at 9:56 PM
Good. That’s my only problem with Apple doing this; that they are a bunch of hypocritical progs.
As to declaring taxes, I’ve considered the doing in private aspect, and really respect those who chose that route, but when I consider all the pure evil the government does with my tax dollar, I chose to keep as much out of their wicked hands as legally possible. I still fear it won’t be enough to wash me of the guilt I have in continuing to fund that evil.
pannw on May 21, 2013 at 10:31 PM
The proggie lib hears only “misses out on … tax revenue” and says, “That’s not fair! You’re not paying your fair share!”
When asked about the jobs, the proggie lib responds indignantly, “Well, since you won’t give EVERYONE a well-paying programmer or executive job, then THAT’S NOT FAIR either!”
When told life isn’t fair, the proggie lib snarls, “Once the government controls everything, IT WILL BE!”
Marcola on May 22, 2013 at 12:26 AM
Letting too many snakes onto the Emerald Isle in P.C. stupidity.
O’Sharia.
profitsbeard on May 22, 2013 at 3:49 AM
Say there wasn’t anyone on that panel that has a rich heiress wife that shelters her NINE-figure fortune in a Trust, is there?
Cough-Cindy-Cough-McCain…
Tekov Yahoser on May 22, 2013 at 4:57 AM
I guess the Senate Democrats figured they’d found a pot o’ gold.
Odysseus on May 22, 2013 at 7:27 AM
The nerve of those Irish.
Not taxing everyone that wants to do business in their country over 50%. To not support their ruling elite with well earned compensation and benefits such as “seperate but equal” healthcare, pensions/social security, immunity from tax and regulations as well as most non felonious law.
They are obviously infidels and heathens unworthy of our fearless leaders support.
acyl72 on May 22, 2013 at 7:31 AM