Open thread: The “I can’t believe they’re having another debate” debate

posted at 8:34 pm on January 16, 2012 by Allahpundit

9 p.m. ET on Fox News. If you’ve been reading the site today, you already know what to expect. Santorum will attack Romney for being an Obama clone, Gingrich will attack both of them for being unelectable, and Romney, I suppose, will attack Newt for his Bain criticism — all of which will be punctuated by grumbling about how unfair the other guy’s Super PAC is. Then Ron Paul will say something about the Fed and Perry will say something self-deprecating, and we’ll rinse and repeat. For two hours.

Philip Klein dares to think a terrible, terrible thought. I’m entitling this blockquote, “What if the tea party never existed?”

Is there anything stopping [Romney] from sweeping all 50 states?

Think about it. Romney has a commanding lead in Florida, and will simply obliterate the field if he enters the Sunshine State after having won South Carolina. And if he does win South Carolina and Florida, what will become of the rest of the field? Rick Perry, who came in fifth in Iowa and bailed on New Hamphshire, already has very little justification for continuing. A distant finish in South Carolina would give him even less reason. It’s true that there are states in which Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich can theoretically beat Romney, but if they can’t beat him in South Carolina, where will they go from there? Even now, Romney has a 23-point lead nationally, according to Gallup.

Sure, perhaps Rep. Ron Paul’s fervent supporters can out-hustle Romney’s organization in a caucus here or there. But it’s also possible that Romney will run the table. Remember, as the field gets narrowed, it’ll get a lot harder for Paul to outright win a state, because he’ll have to start getting into the 40-50-plus point range.

Skim this LA Times piece for a reminder of what makes Klein’s scenario plausible. It’s not just that Romney’s national organization is so solid; it’s that, apart from Ron Paul, he’s the only candidate who even has a national organization. And since I’m beating a dead horse by making that point again, let me beat another one by reminding you that even a Romney loss in South Carolina is unlikely to put Florida in play. PPP’s new poll tonight shows Mitt leading Gingrich there 41/26, and by an even wider margin among voters who say they’ve made up their minds. His favorables are 68/24 generally — better than in Iowa, New Hampshire, or South Carolina — and 70/18 on the narrower issue of his business record. So much for the Bain attacks. In fact, I’m curious to see whether Gingrich brings up Bain tonight or whether Romney himself does. That’ll be the best evidence yet of what the campaigns’ internal polling shows on this issue. Do note that Newt conspicuously passed on a golden opportunity to hit Romney on it yesterday.

Here’s the Hot Air/Townhall livetweet widget. Fox is going to solicit Twitter feedback tonight during the debate to track whether viewers think a candidate is answering a question or dodging it, so there’s one way to kinda sorta amuse yourself as debate fatigue sets in circa 9:05. Exit question: Is it racist to give money to someone in need? It is on MSNBC, apparently.



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Where is Isril?

jake-the-goose on January 16, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Attacking the Southern accent? They also pronounce Jerusalem “Jeroozalem”, you pick on that, too?

Aslans Girl on January 16, 2012 at 11:49 PM

Santorum is calling SS private accounts “a new entitlement.” I understand the funding point. But to say that enabling earners to direct THEIR social security contributions to a private account is bothersome. I’m reminded of the 1980s McDonald’s ad following a new worker who looks at his first paycheck and asks his dad, “Who is this guy, FICA? And why is he taking my money?”

BuckeyeSam on January 16, 2012 at 11:42 PM

I believe Santorum has supported SS private accounts in the past, and social security reform in general. I’m not sure if you understood his point.

Dr. Tesla on January 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM

ProudPalinFan on January 16, 2012 at 11:46 PM

After the last one, I fixed all the breaks all the way to the alley.

And spend the springs snake huntin’ in the back yard. The dang dogs are afraid of them. At least they take out the opossums.

cozmo on January 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Wow, the bitter anti-Mittists converge to pounce on Mitt because Gingrich won the debate. Okay.

andy85719 on January 16, 2012 at 11:47 PM

I don’t think Mitt is any kind of movement conservative but the hatred that many “conservatives” display towards him and their preference of Gingrich is strange in the face of Gingrich’s anti-capitalist rhetoric.

Igor R. on January 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM

The nonRomneys try being Democrats and stigmatize Romney’s success. Gingrich is a particularly pompous fool.

aloysiusmiller on January 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM

I loved how Perry let it be known that he LIVED in Turkey when he was in the Air Force. The man is not some hick; he’s seen the world. In fact he says that his time overseas is what has made him love America so very much — because he has seen how other countries live and we are the best.

Aslans Girl on January 16, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Dick morris after the break.

Tim_CA on January 16, 2012 at 11:52 PM

LOL! That’s a great ad!

JonBGood on January 16, 2012 at 11:49 PM

One of the greatest ads of all time.

Wow, the bitter anti-Mittists converge to pounce on Mitt because Gingrich won the debate. Okay.

andy85719 on January 16, 2012 at 11:47 PM

C’mon. Admit it. Mitt was unable to look smooth even with Hannity in the wrap-up. Mitt’s more thin-skinned than Obama. And that scares me.

BuckeyeSam on January 16, 2012 at 11:52 PM

I loved how Perry let it be known that he LIVED in Turkey when he was in the Air Force. The man is not some hick; he’s seen the world. In fact he says that his time overseas is what has made him love America so very much — because he has seen how other countries live and we are the best.

Aslans Girl on January 16, 2012 at 11:51 PM

I actually really liked his performance tonight.

Igor R. on January 16, 2012 at 11:53 PM

Getting all conservative ideas and values off the table & out of American public life.

Sadly, the “Romney” wing of the Republican party is succeeding.

tetriskid on January 16, 2012 at 11:34 PM

I don’t see it this way. People are afraid of losing to Obama and having our Country destroyed by the liberals. They see Romney as the most electable. I won’t vote for him in the primaries, but I will in the general. And if he does win I will do my part to move him to the right.

redridinghood on January 16, 2012 at 11:53 PM

Hope about a CCC program for poor teen-agers and send them to the nation’s farms during the summer? Can’t they do the work of migrant workers?

BuckeyeSam on January 16, 2012 at 11:49 PM

RAAAAACIST!!!!!
/sarc

Just Sayin on January 16, 2012 at 11:54 PM

Mitt is the front-runner. It was not in his interest to throw red meat to hard-core conservatives in SC to resuscitate his campaign.

Romney is already planning for, and sounding as, the general election candidate.

When assessing Romney’s performance, don’t think as a conservative. Think as a soccer Mom or disaffected independent or Democrat who supported Obama (or Hillary) in 2008 and now wants a calm, reassuring alternative to Obama, who is a proven failure.

matthew8787 on January 16, 2012 at 11:35 PM

I always laugh when you moderates talk about not throwing red meat to conservatives but then you call Obama a failure. How is that not red meat? It’s worst than calling him a socialist, in my view. It’s funny how moderates define what is moderate and what is red meat. There’s no logic to it.

Dr. Tesla on January 16, 2012 at 11:55 PM

C’mon. Admit it. Mitt was unable to look smooth even with Hannity in the wrap-up. Mitt’s more thin-skinned than Obama. And that scares me.

BuckeyeSam on January 16, 2012 at 11:52 PM

He does “fluster-up” easy….and often goes full-metal-stutter when he does. You’d think he’d be better at this by now.

Tim_CA on January 16, 2012 at 11:55 PM

canopfor on January 16, 2012 at 11:17 PM
No need to kid, this is Texas after all.

cozmo on January 16, 2012 at 11:19 PM

cozmo:Hehe,good one!!

canopfor on January 16, 2012 at 11:55 PM

I am not a lawyer. [...]

Igor R. on January 16, 2012 at 11:46 PM

.
The last paragraph:

Hatfield has said he believes the United States’ founders intended not only for presidents to be born in the U.S. but for their parents to also have been U.S. citizens.

.
Now, you know that is ridiculous! That is called “begging the question” and is a fallacy from the very beginning of time and logical thought. That’s why you wouldn’t post the relevant paragraph on your own. You don’t have to be a lawyer to support your opinions if you are going to have the courage to express them in writing as “truth.”
.
Try again. That one failed. Miserably.

ExpressoBold on January 16, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Sudden enthusiasm for a candidate that twenty-four hours ago trashed capitalism and was praised by Michael Moore. Hmm…

andy85719 on January 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM

Always wanted a white Saint Bernard. Now with a wife and kid, I get outvoted.

cozmo on January 16, 2012 at 11:46 PM

My dog has a penchant for birds, squirrels, and any critter large and small that crosses “her” yard. Guard dog, so barks a lot-at nothing. When I get mad at her I call her “Bark-O-Rama”.

Of course like any normal dog, can go for a dog toy but really has a record of stealing shoes and kids’ toys, like NERF guns and stuffed animals. I laugh at the notion of possible punctures in her digestive system.

At dinner time, she becomes “Eureka”. When you have a dog almost level to the dining room table gotta watch her like a hawk. But they have to have cats, and kids. My cats are my dog’s catnip (?!?!?).

The Great Pyrenee’s nickname are polar bears.

ProudPalinFan on January 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM

I don’t think Mitt is any kind of movement conservative but the hatred that many “conservatives” display towards him and their preference of Gingrich is strange in the face of Gingrich’s anti-capitalist rhetoric.

Igor R. on January 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Newt is the truest capitalist and truest conservative in the race. Any candidate who makes the argument that no activities pursued under capitalism can be challenged by the people is no capitalist. Newt understands the real capitalism that built this nation of a few hundred thousand 250 years ago into the single most powerful nation the world has ever known. He has read all the histories that explain how it formed, how it evolved, where it failed and where it succeeded and he has taken these lessons to heart. Capitalism does not work when people have bad morals. One of those morals is the work ethic that he spoke about here.

Newt is the only candidate that has changed the direction of this country, and is the only one on the stage with both the vision to do so for the good, but the message to make Americans get behind him. Having so called conservatives argue that he is anti-capitalist because he was hurting their chosen savior is very destructive to this nation.

Lets be clear, without any criticism of capitalism, we would be stuck back in the late 19th century, early 20th century where factory workers died horrible deaths, early deaths and suffered life destroying injuries on an hourly basis. Without an criticisms of capitalism, we would have even larger corporations (compared to the size of the much smaller economy we would get with that) that had far more control over our daily lives than we currently do. Without criticism of capitalism, there actually would not be any actual capitalism at all, as the lack of criticism would have ended up with a citizenry that rose up with pitchforks and torches and destroyed every last aspect of it from our civilization.

astonerii on January 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM

After the Tea Party successes of 2010, if Mitt Romney is the nominee, then the party will have effectively lost its conservative moorings.

Will this split the party?

JonBGood on January 16, 2012 at 11:41 PM

I agree. 2010 was all about repealing, completely repealing, a one page repeal of Obamacare. It was not about let’s “keep the best parts” as Romney said he wants to do.

It is unbelievable that we will now nominate the inventor of Obamacare as the republican candidate. 2010 was for nothing and yes this will split the party especially if Romney loses.

Kaffa on January 16, 2012 at 11:57 PM

anti-capitalist rhetoric.

Igor R. on January 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM

The nonRomneys try being Democrats and stigmatize Romney’s success. Gingrich is a particularly pompous fool.

aloysiusmiller on January 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM

For the Romney surrogates to label questions about Mitt’s Bain record as “anti-capitalist” is chutzpah writ large.

After all, it’s Mitt Romney who saddled his state with the socialized healthcare plan known as Romneycare, the building block for Obamacare.

Whether you like Newt or not, at least he has a long history of being a Reagan conservative with a conservative record of accomplishment: balanced budgets and welfare reform.

Mitt Romney has a long history of opposing conservative policies and conservative leaders. Mitt even opposed the conservative icon of the Republican party: Ronald Reagan.

JonBGood on January 16, 2012 at 11:57 PM

What if tomorrow Santorum wins Iowa?

ProudPalinFan on January 16, 2012 at 11:57 PM

canopfor on January 16, 2012 at 11:13 PM
========================================

It’s the thousand pound turd in the room that no one wants to talk about right now, but the smell is causing everyone to vomit…

… Maybe because the hearings are ongoing, I don’t know, but it needs to become the next American Idol!

Seven Percent Solution on January 16, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Seven Percent Solution:Americn idol,lol,well if it was Team Right,
the MSM would be fixated on it!:)

canopfor on January 16, 2012 at 11:57 PM

This ongoing blog debate is pretty much purely academic now, no? We all know who the nominee will be.

andy85719 on January 16, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Romney didn’t seem too concerned about capitalisma and free markets and choice when he did his mandate and ROmneyCare thing in Mass.

But hey, we got to give him a free pass on that, he’s handsome.

Dr. Tesla on January 16, 2012 at 11:58 PM

The Great Pyrenee’s nickname are polar bears.

ProudPalinFan on January 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM

My first Saint thought he was a rottweiler and acted like it. My second thought he was a horse. My third thought she was a Saint Bernard.

cozmo on January 16, 2012 at 11:59 PM

What if tomorrow Santorum wins Iowa?

ProudPalinFan on January 16, 2012 at 11:57 PM

If a tree falls in the forest and no one’s around to hear it….

alchemist19 on January 16, 2012 at 11:59 PM

Sudden enthusiasm for a candidate that twenty-four hours ago trashed capitalism and was praised by Michael Moore. Hmm…

andy85719 on January 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM

Some of Mitt’s supporters like to engage in the same dishonesty that their candidate does.

Who knew that Mitt was the Father of capitalism or free enterprise. It’s as if he invented it.

JonBGood on January 17, 2012 at 12:00 AM

Now, you know that is ridiculous! That is called “begging the question” and is a fallacy from the very beginning of time and logical thought. That’s why you wouldn’t post the relevant paragraph on your own. You don’t have to be a lawyer to support your opinions if you are going to have the courage to express them in writing as “truth.”
.
Try again. That one failed. Miserably.

ExpressoBold on January 16, 2012 at 11:55 PM

When a lawyer says he “believes” it’s not a religious argument. I’ve seen countless articles with that interpretation, but I don’t have them handy and don’t feel like initiating a search and having an argument about some legal details I don’t understand.

You can read whatever info this has an offer your full critique.

http://www.art2superpac.com/issues.html

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:00 AM

In my view, Santorum did win Iowa. Divided conservative vote and ROmney only wins by 8 votes despite being the big money man? That’s weak, in my view.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:01 AM

Perry sounding strong tonite – where was this version hiding?

Tim_CA on January 16, 2012 at 10:24 PM

This is Perry’s ninth or tenth strong debate in a row. In the Iowa debates, pundits even said he won them. His strong debates outnumber his weak debates. Being recovered from back-pain certainly has helped.

Aslans Girl on January 17, 2012 at 12:01 AM

RAAAAACIST!!!!!
/sarc

Just Sayin on January 16, 2012 at 11:54 PM

I saw the sarc. I started with “black,” but changed it to poor so that it included all.

Seriously, we flush enough money down the tubes. I saw get inner-city kids of all races out into the country. Set up a small bureaucracy to administer applications submitted from local groups. The farmers pay the wage, maybe the feds cough up some dough for spartan lodging and meals. Hire some retired military to serve as adults in their living quarters. Get some teachers to teach something at night and on weekends. Little free time. Any misbehavior, send them home.

I’m just spitballing. But I can think of worse ways to spend taxpayer dough.

BuckeyeSam on January 17, 2012 at 12:02 AM

My sense of Romney is that if he would take large money bribes to govern like a conservative. He loves Capitalism more than anything. We may have to bribe this guy for at least 4 years.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:03 AM

I loved how Perry let it be known that he LIVED in Turkey when he was in the Air Force. Aslans Girl on January 16, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Perry had a great debate tonight!

JonBGood on January 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM

Igor R. on January 16, 2012 at 11:53 PM

You could knock me over with a feather with that comment! :)

Aslans Girl on January 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM

I never thought I would see somebody claim Perry won a debate. I don’t think perry would eve claim that.

That’s my Aslan’s Girl.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM

astonerii on January 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM

I don’t believe Romney did anything (of note) illegal, unethical, or even unconventional. To compare his record with some 19th century horror stories is, well, anti-capitalist.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM

He does “fluster-up” easy….and often goes full-metal-stutter when he does. You’d think he’d be better at this by now.

Tim_CA on January 16, 2012 at 11:55 PM

I think he’ll look awful on stage next to Obama.

I’m out. I missed the first half of the debate because I dozed off after a late dinner.

BuckeyeSam on January 17, 2012 at 12:05 AM

My horse in 2008, Fred Thompson, won the SC debate and then only finished 3rd in SC.

Perry’s been a worst candidate than Thompson.

It’s over baby, pack up the bus cuz your going home to Texas.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:05 AM

How I saw it –

1. Newt
2. Perry
3. Romney
4. Santorum
5. Paul

But Mitt really won because he didn’t have any major screwups. As long as he doesn’t mess up he’s going to win on Saturday.

independentvoice on January 17, 2012 at 12:05 AM

You could knock me over with a feather with that comment! :)

Aslans Girl on January 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM

I’m always ready to change my mind based on new evidence.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:05 AM

Newt gets standing ovation, Romney gets handed his lunch pail!

Romney crumbles under attack. He is dodgy and anyone notice how he stutters when he is lying? Obama will make mince meat out of him!

As for Ron Paul, there are no words that can effectively describe the man. And, his supporters are just as off the rails as he is!

Sparky5253 on January 17, 2012 at 12:05 AM

Perry had a great debate tonight!

JonBGood on January 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM

Yes, he really did! I actually got tears in my eyes when he mentioned Daniel Pearl and our soliders and what the enemy did to them. God bless him. He showed his passion for our military which is a beautiful sight to behold.

Aslans Girl on January 17, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Romney didn’t seem too concerned about capitalisma and free markets and choice when he did his mandate and ROmneyCare thing in Mass. Dr. Tesla on January 16, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Good point!

JonBGood on January 17, 2012 at 12:06 AM

The dang dogs are afraid of them. [...]

cozmo on January 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM

.
I had one dog that I swore had been bit by snakes and remembered it. I saw her high-tail it out of a woody patch just growling, like she was trying to get away from something she didn’t like very much but remembered. A few years ago, I did find a big cottonmouth near the house and shot it before it could do any damage.
.
Dogs do good analysis sometimes.

ExpressoBold on January 17, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Dogs do good analysis sometimes.

ExpressoBold on January 17, 2012 at 12:06 AM

These were garter snakes.

cozmo on January 17, 2012 at 12:07 AM

Romney won tonight, as he will in the SC primary and likely in FL, not because of his own performance but because the excellent performances of Gingrich, Perry, and Santorum are splitting the conservative vote.

It is a perfect storm, that gives safe sail to Romney. If the latter three do not get together and decide who will be the ABR, Romney wins by default, which begs the question: What Messrs Gingrich, Perry, and Santorum is more important, your egos or your country? Gang up, you fools, or kill our country.

TXUS on January 17, 2012 at 12:08 AM

Who thought a few months ago that Perry would need a miracle in SC just to stay relevant?

As The Election Cycle Turns….

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:08 AM

ExpressoBold on January 16, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:00 AM

Senate Resolution 511
Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen’ under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.

We forget that the original ‘birthers’ were democrats trying to disqualify McCain, and that citizen parents was a qualifying condtion in addition to being born on sovereign american soil.

Obama either co-sponsored or co-authored this resolution.

I don’t know what the right answer is, but I don’t think we should treat the issue so dismissively.

Everlasting_Knowitall on January 17, 2012 at 12:09 AM

Romney won tonight, as he will in the SC primary and likely in FL, not because of his own performance but because the excellent performances of Gingrich, Perry, and Santorum are splitting the conservative vote.

It is a perfect storm, that gives safe sail to Romney. If the latter three do not get together and decide who will be the ABR, Romney wins by default, which begs the question: What Messrs Gingrich, Perry, and Santorum is more important, your egos or your country? Gang up, you fools, or kill our country.

TXUS on January 17, 2012 at 12:08 AM

Republican primaries are God’s way of teaching America about game theory.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:09 AM

I don’t believe Romney did anything (of note) illegal, unethical, or even unconventional. To compare his record with some 19th century horror stories is, well, anti-capitalist.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM

If that’s true, then why doesn’t Mitt come out and simply say, “I did nothing wrong at Bain. You can look at my deals. I did not do anything unethical or immoral.”

Why won’t Mitt say that? And, is he willing to release the information on his deals?

JonBGood on January 17, 2012 at 12:09 AM

Romney only finished 4th in SC in 2008, and I think he was polling #2.

I won’t be surprised if he loses SC. We need to him to lose a state so people stop voting for him simply b/c he’s the frontrunner. Voters like voting for the horse they think is going to win it.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:10 AM

We forget that the original ‘birthers’ were democrats trying to disqualify McCain, and that citizen parents was a qualifying condtion in addition to being born on sovereign american soil.

Obama either co-sponsored or co-authored this resolution.

I don’t know what the right answer is, but I don’t think we should treat the issue so dismissively.

Everlasting_Knowitall on January 17, 2012 at 12:09 AM

This is a complicated issue because “natural born citizen” is never defined in the constitution. There arguments based on foreign writings at the time of its creation, “the law of nations”, etc. It’s just not a clear area.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:12 AM

Romney doesn’t have a birther problem. His father was an American citizen, and never held Mexican citizenship.

Igor R. on January 16, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Igor R.: The book is coming out on Mittens Family!:
===================================================

Posted at 06:15 PM ET, 01/14/2012
Mitt Romney’s complex relationship with religion, family explored in new book
**************
**************

On the stump, GOP White House hopeful and former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney “loves dichotomies,” write Michael Kranish and Scott Helman in a forthcoming book. “Strong versus weak, stagnation versus prosperity, leadership versus drift.”

The Post obtained an advance copy of the book.

The contrasts that define Romney’s story stretch back generations, to his great-grandfather, Miles P. Romney, who had five wives and more than 30 children. In the 1880s, he was ordered by church officials to flee the United States, where anti-polygamy laws were tightening, and founded a Mormon colony in Mexico where plural marriage could thrive.

Twenty-seven years later, after the Mormon church had reversed its stand on polygamy, the Romneys again found themselves in exile: Miles P. Romney’s son Gaskell and Gaskell’s wife, Anna, were forced to flee revolutionaries in Mexico and seek refuge back in the United States. Making the journey with them was their son, 5-year-old George Romney, the future governor of Michigan and father of Mitt.

Whereas Mitt Romney’s great-great-grandfather, Miles A. Romney, and his wife were destitute when they left their English village in 1841 to migrate to America, future generations of Romneys went on to achieve great wealth — up to and including Mitt, whose net worth had grown to as much as $250 million by 2007, the authors estimate.
(More….)
============

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/mitt-romneys-complex-relationship-with-religion-family-explored-in-new-book/2012/01/14/gIQANVgHzP_blog.html

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM

It is odd ROmney’s made a big deal out of not releasing his tax returns.

The dude that wants to stick his nose in our medical decisions doesn’t think he has to release his tax returns to voters?

This guy just seems arrogant the more I think about him.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM

Voters like voting for the horse they think is going to win it.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:10 AM

Sad, but true.

Kaffa on January 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM

In my view, Santorum did win Iowa. Divided conservative vote and ROmney only wins by 8 votes despite being the big money man? That’s weak, in my view.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:01 AM

FYI, the news tonight is that Santorum actually did win Iowa by 80 votes. We’ll know for sure tomorrow. Santorum made mention of it as well talking to Hannity tonight.

KickandSwimMom on January 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM

I don’t believe Romney did anything (of note) illegal, unethical, or even unconventional. To compare his record with some 19th century horror stories is, well, anti-capitalist.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM

All those activities, as well as slave trading were perfectly legal at the time. As for ethics, yours and mine differ. Like I will drive 5 miles to return a quarter if I find that a cashier gave me too much change. If a cashier misses an item and puts it in my bag I tell them immediately. it is not all about my bottom line, but giving value for value in my business dealings. You must think there is only one moral, increasing your wealth is the only moral. I disagree. I believe in working for your wealth.

astonerii on January 17, 2012 at 12:14 AM

I had one dog that I swore had been bit by snakes and remembered it. I saw her high-tail it out of a woody patch just growling, like she was trying to get away from something she didn’t like very much but remembered. A few years ago, I did find a big cottonmouth near the house and shot it before it could do any damage.
.
Dogs do good analysis sometimes.

ExpressoBold on January 17, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Hmm I want to experiment now in the summer. No snakes here now in the 18s to 40s, see what happens. Sniffes moles and tries to dig ‘em out. Mr. PPF doesn’t want her to face a raccoon (sp?) but I don’t care. I’ve heard of them taking on coyotes. If it wasn’t for the weather I’d send a puppy to Perry. Heh. Save some ammo.

ProudPalinFan on January 17, 2012 at 12:14 AM

If that’s true, then why doesn’t Mitt come out and simply say, “I did nothing wrong at Bain. You can look at my deals. I did not do anything unethical or immoral.”

Why won’t Mitt say that? And, is he willing to release the information on his deals?

JonBGood on January 17, 2012 at 12:09 AM

I don’t know, really. If I were him, I would definitely not say “I did nothing wrong at Bain.”. When you talk that way, you are sounding guilty. He is in the “when did you stop beating your wife” situation.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:14 AM

Romney wins SC:
“Every winner of SC goes on to win the nomination, so everybody else should unite around Romney. -talking heads
-talking heads

Romney loses SC:
“The rules are out the window in this historic primary season! Romney is about to make history!”
-talking heads

Everlasting_Knowitall on January 17, 2012 at 12:14 AM

As The Election Cycle Turns….

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:08 AM

Rick Perry, SOP

cozmo on January 17, 2012 at 12:15 AM

So, what did I miss?

Cindy Munford on January 17, 2012 at 12:15 AM

Actually, I think Newt got the better of Romney in the SuperPAC exchange. Romney’s answer looked pretty whiny and he actually attacked McCain-Feingold in the process after receiving McCain’s endorsement. Oh to be a fly on the wall for THAT conversation…

conservativemusician on January 16, 2012 at 11:33 PM

Weird. I remember a time when conservatives could agree that McCain-Feingold wasn’t good legislation.

Murf76 on January 17, 2012 at 12:16 AM

FYI, the news tonight is that Santorum actually did win Iowa by 80 votes. We’ll know for sure tomorrow. Santorum made mention of it as well talking to Hannity tonight.

KickandSwimMom on January 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM

Ok Santorum, challenge the others, STAT!/VA still has me ticked off.

ProudPalinFan on January 17, 2012 at 12:16 AM

Rick Perry’s appearance on Jay Leno is being repeated now :)

Aslans Girl on January 17, 2012 at 12:17 AM

So what, I’ve had two snakes indoors in the last few years. Those that the cat didn’t get.

They come through breaks in the sewer line.

cozmo on January 16, 2012 at 11:13 PM

Oh no, you did not just say that!!! One of my many OCD irrational fears is snakes in the toilet! I’m gonna have nightmares tonight!

mrsmwp on January 17, 2012 at 12:17 AM

AlexNBCNews tweeted:
*********************

Gingrich on #SCDebate: “I thought it was a very interesting change and in some ways it was the most interesting debate.”

#decision2012Story metadata:
Submitted 21 mins ago from twitter.com/AlexNBCNews by editor
=============================

http://www.breakingnews.com/

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:17 AM

ProudPalinFan on January 17, 2012 at 12:16 AM

With a vote as close as Iowa, Santorum was stupid to “agree with Mitt” that Mitt won. He should’ve asked for a recount that night. He sure was quick to agree with Mitt…

Aslans Girl on January 17, 2012 at 12:18 AM

All those activities, as well as slave trading were perfectly legal at the time. As for ethics, yours and mine differ. Like I will drive 5 miles to return a quarter if I find that a cashier gave me too much change. If a cashier misses an item and puts it in my bag I tell them immediately. it is not all about my bottom line, but giving value for value in my business dealings. You must think there is only one moral, increasing your wealth is the only moral. I disagree. I believe in working for your wealth.

astonerii on January 17, 2012 at 12:14 AM

I do have a preference for creating things through specialized knowledge and work, especially of the technical kind. Nevertheless I don’t believe in condemning making money by making deals and “shuffling paper around”. Those societies that make those types of activities illegal or shameful lose, and lose big.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:18 AM

Seriously, we flush enough money down the tubes. I saw get inner-city kids of all races out into the country. Set up a small bureaucracy to administer applications submitted from local groups. The farmers pay the wage, maybe the feds cough up some dough for spartan lodging and meals. Hire some retired military to serve as adults in their living quarters. Get some teachers to teach something at night and on weekends. Little free time. Any misbehavior, send them home.

I’m just spitballing. But I can think of worse ways to spend taxpayer dough.

BuckeyeSam on January 17, 2012 at 12:02 AM

I actually really like the idea. It beats the heck out of other “make-work” programs for kids, like CETA (does that still exist?) where kids are paid to do quite literally nothing.

Give them some experience, expose them to hard work, working with the land, producing something….achieving something. Even if it’s just harvesting or whatever – they can see the results of their own efforts, and then get paid for it.

You’re really onto something in terms of substance. But political viability? Unfortunately, not so much.

Just Sayin on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM

So, what did I miss?

Cindy Munford on January 17, 2012 at 12:15 AM

Cindy Munford:Kaos!:)

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM

So, what did I miss?

Cindy Munford on January 17, 2012 at 12:15 AM

Highlight:

Newt Hands Juan Williams his @ss over “foodstamps”.

Tim_CA on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM

Oh no, you did not just say that!!! One of my many OCD irrational fears is snakes in the toilet! I’m gonna have nightmares tonight!

mrsmwp on January 17, 2012 at 12:17 AM

Irrational?

Dang, its late.

cozmo on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM

I do have a preference for creating things through specialized knowledge and work, especially of the technical kind. Nevertheless I don’t believe in condemning making money by making deals and “shuffling paper around”. Those societies that make those types of activities illegal or shameful lose, and lose big.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:18 AM

So, big Soros booster??

astonerii on January 17, 2012 at 12:20 AM

Irrational?

cozmo on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM

lmao!

(just plain wrong)

Tim_CA on January 17, 2012 at 12:22 AM

So, big Soros booster??

astonerii on January 17, 2012 at 12:20 AM

That’s an “unfair” question because of what’s not stated: he is a major contributor to the causes targeting the US and freedom itself for destruction. I am completely supportive of his financial activities when done above board, but horrified at his democracy-destroying attempts.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:23 AM

Irrational?

Dang, its late.

cozmo on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM

Oh crud. You mean it’s not irrational? This is getting worse and worse.

mrsmwp on January 17, 2012 at 12:24 AM

Ron Paul: Tax Rate Should Be 0%
*******************************

At the Republican presidential debate in South Carolina the candidates were asked what would be the highest federal tax rate they would like people to pay.

Ron Paul: “Well, we should have the lowest tax that we’ve ever had and upntil 1913 it was 0%. What’s so bad about that?”
=====================================================

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/01/16/ron_paul_tax_rate_should_be_0.html

canopfor on January 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:25 AM

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM

That’s been what is missing in this election. Kaos!!!

Tim_CA on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM

Well, good!

Cindy Munford on January 17, 2012 at 12:25 AM

Gingrich Defends Attacks Against Romney
Jan 16 2012
***********

At tonight’s South Carolina GOP Debate, Bret Baier questioned Newt Gingrich about his attacks on Mitt Romney saying that in September Gingrich had vowed to “repudiate every effort of the news media to get Republicans to fight each other to protect Barack Obama, who deserves to be defeated.” Yet in recent days, Gingrich has gone on the attack against the GOP frontrunner.

Gingrich defended the criticism, saying, “First of all, I think that the staying positive through Iowa, through $3.5 million of negative attacks proved you either have to unilaterally disarm and leave the race or you have to at least bring up your competitor’s record.”
=========

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/01/16/gingrich_defends_attacks_against_romney.html

canopfor on January 16, 2012 at 11:35 PM

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:26 AM

Does anybody know why we don’t have primary run-offs?

I have a hard time beliving nobody ever brought this up to the GOP before.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:26 AM

If I’m not mistaken, Jim DeMint and the woman he beat went to a primary run-off back in in 2004.

If it’s done for senators, why not presidential candidates?

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:28 AM

Gotta go, so good night, carry on and luv you all! xoxo

-PPF

ProudPalinFan on January 17, 2012 at 12:28 AM

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:19 AM
—————————————–

That’s been what is missing in this election. Kaos!!!

Cindy Munford on January 17, 2012 at 12:25 AM

Cindy Munford:Yup,and,I’m posting the Debate highlights:)

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:28 AM

I think conservatives could accept Romney more if he was able to win over a majority of Republican voters rather than a plurality in a 2-man race.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:29 AM

Santorum, Romney Debate Felons And Ability To Vote
Jan 16 2012
***********

Santorum pressed Romney to state whether he believes that felons, who have served their time, should be given the right to vote. Santorum stressed, “This is a huge deal in the African-American community because we have very high rates of incarceration, disproportionally high rates, particularly with drug crimes in the African-American community.”

Romney answered, “I don’t think people who have committed violent crimes should be allowed to vote again.”
========================================

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/01/16/santorum_romney_debate_felons_and_ability_to_vote.html

canopfor on January 16, 2012 at 11:39 PM

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:29 AM

That’s an “unfair” question because of what’s not stated: he is a major contributor to the causes targeting the US and freedom itself for destruction. I am completely supportive of his financial activities when done above board, but horrified at his democracy-destroying attempts.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:23 AM

So, when he uses his position to tank an entire country’s currency, that is a moral good that cannot be challenged as immoral by anyone? When he uses his position to crush peoples investments so he can make money on the shorts, that is a moral good and cannot be challenged as immoral by anyone? Doing these activities, and because he does them far better than Romney did, if he just was similar to Romney in ideology you would support him over Romney in the primary? Because those kinds of activities have no bearing on who the person is and how they will lead the nation?

astonerii on January 17, 2012 at 12:29 AM

You can read whatever info this has an offer your full critique.

http://www.art2superpac.com/issues.html

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:00 AM

.
Thanks for the link. What kind of superpac is this? Who organized it and comprises its membership and driving forces? That would be important to know regarding “birther” issues.
.
I’m sure that there are those who would like for the issue not to be murky and inconsistent but really, the “natural born citizen” issue is interpretive dance, especially when one considers McCain’s birth in the Canal Zone to American parents and “anchor babies” born to legal and illegal residents of the US.
.
Speeches on the House or Senate floor, BTW, are not law. They are barely even guidance since, frequently, an opposing view can be cited from the same debate. I think the last unanimous vote in the Senate was to reject Ø’s last presented budget. Something more recent happened in the House, can’t remember what it was.

ExpressoBold on January 17, 2012 at 12:30 AM

Rick Perry: “This Administration Is Out Of Control”
Jan 16 2012
***********

Rick Perry:

“Look, Ive said this administration is at war against organized religion. And when you look at what they have done, going after churches because churches had that ministerial exception in that and can decide who they were going to hire at their churches, the idea that the Catholic charities cannot take money or the federal government, this administration won’t give them those dollars for sexually trafficked individuals because this administration doesn’t agree with the Catholic Church on the issue of abortion. If that’s not a war on religion, i don’t know what it is. And this administration is out of control.”
==================================

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/01/16/rick_perry_this_administration_is_out_of_control.html

canopfor on January 16, 2012 at 11:41 PM

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:30 AM

canopfor on January 17, 2012 at 12:28 AM

Thank you, sir.

Cindy Munford on January 17, 2012 at 12:30 AM

I think conservatives could accept Romney more if he was able to win over a majority of Republican voters rather than a plurality in a 2-man race.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:29 AM

In other words, conservatives would like Romney more if they liked him more.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:30 AM

Hey Cindy, can’t speak to me? Why the cold shoulder?

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:31 AM

Does anybody know why we don’t have primary run-offs?

I have a hard time beliving nobody ever brought this up to the GOP before.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:26 AM

Heck, here in Texas, I would just be happy if there was more than one person still running by the time we vote in our primary.

When is the last time in the Republican nomination process where all but the eventual nominee hadn’t dropped out after Super Tuesday?

mrsmwp on January 17, 2012 at 12:32 AM

In other words, conservatives would like Romney more if they liked him more.

Igor R. on January 17, 2012 at 12:30 AM

No, the point is conservatives could “live” with Romney if could win a majority of Republican voters in a 2-man race.

Right now he’s winning b/c of a divided conservative vote. You do understand that, right?

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:33 AM

My belief is Romney would lose in a two man race. Most ROmney supporters don’t support a primary run-off for this reason.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:34 AM

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:31 AM

No cold shoulder, I just got here. Are you having fun?

Cindy Munford on January 17, 2012 at 12:35 AM

Heck, here in Texas, I would just be happy if there was more than one person still running by the time we vote in our primary.

When is the last time in the Republican nomination process where all but the eventual nominee hadn’t dropped out after Super Tuesday?

mrsmwp on January 17, 2012 at 12:32 AM

Well I agree that all primaries shoudl be held on the same day. It would put an end to this voting for the frontrunner b/c people want to say they voted for the winner trend that I think occurs in elections.

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:36 AM

Mr. PPF doesn’t want her to face a raccoon (sp?) but I don’t care.

ProudPalinFan on January 17, 2012 at 12:14 AM

.
Oh but you should care! Coons have sharp claws, sharp teeth, intelligence, and sometimes rabies. Not a good combination for dogs.

ExpressoBold on January 17, 2012 at 12:37 AM

No cold shoulder, I just got here. Are you having fun?

Cindy Munford on January 17, 2012 at 12:35 AM

I never have fun on MLK day. It’s a day of quiet sober somber reflection about race relations for me. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 17, 2012 at 12:37 AM

I’ll pull hte lever for Perry if he’s still in the race by the time my primary comes up, but I found myself rooting for Mitt here because in all likelihood he will be our nominee and NEEDS to come up with better responses to these Bain Capital attacks/smears. Aside from the trsut issues I have with Romney, I am really concerned that he will not be a strong general election candidate against vile character assassination. He chooses to deflect instead of directly responding and that just isn’t going to cut it.

I was just waiting for him to say he’ll release his tax returns when Obama releases his college transcripts. Newt and Perry would have said this, why not Mitt?

Daemonocracy on January 17, 2012 at 12:44 AM

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