Perry: You know, at times, I can really relate to Moses

posted at 5:00 pm on January 15, 2012 by Tina Korbe

If nothing else, Rick Perry — in all his imperfection — remains likable. In fact, he’s arguably even more likable now than when he entered the presidential race with all the apparent arrogance of a man who had famously never lost an election. Chastened by his own mistakes, he’s learned to take himself lightly but his principles seriously.

That was the message he delivered today at the South Carolina Faith and Freedom Coalition breakfast. He light-heartedly referred to his debate stumbles, but reminded listeners that he’ll stand up for conservative principles. National Journal relates a particularly memorable moment:

Rick Perry’s no stranger to gaffes, but he has tried to turn it into an asset, making self-deprecating jokes about it on the campaign trail.

On Sunday, he found an ally in a fellow speech-challenged leader that drew laughs from the audience of the South Carolina Faith and Freedom Coalition prayer breakfast: Moses.

“Moses, he tried to talk [G]od out of making him go lead the people,” Perry told the crowd of about 300. “He wasn’t a good speaker. Now, from time to time I can relate to that.”

Talk about knowing your audience! Perry was very on point to deliver that quip to this particular crowd. Maybe he’s like Moses in another way, too. While it’s true Moses didn’t think of himself as a particularly effective spokesperson (Exodus 4:10), he was known to others as “powerful in speech” (Acts 7:22). Perhaps Perry is on his way to that (if not the nomination), as well: His speech today earned him a standing ovation.


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Perry has always done that, that is not new at all. He is not arrogant, he is a good man, confident but humble, with a great record. Too bad so many “Conservatives” are ignoring what Perry has done.

Personally, I find that Perry is a good speaker, no, not a robot like Mitt is. Not an arrogant speaker, like Newt, and Huntsman can be. Not whiny, as Santorum can be either.

Sadly, we continue to ignore substance, and accomplishments though. Do we REALLY want to place style over substance again?

Gatordoug on January 15, 2012 at 7:00 PM

Big Media are trying to drive the sheeples that way…Like they did in 2008

workingclass artist on January 15, 2012 at 7:07 PM

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Well, Tina’s post was certainly OK. But Random was looking for a fight. People gave him one.

McDuck on January 15, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Rick Perry haters are out in force. Why not talk about Obama and his 57 states. Or the time he referenced his Muslim faith and had George S. of ABC falling all over himself to correct Obama. Or just recently when Obama said he was in Asia when he was in Hawaii. Do humans forget? Do humans mess up? Yes they do. And Rick Perry and all of us are human. Moses also stuttered. He was fearful of speaking before the Israelites and Pharaoh. God sent Aaron, Moses’ brother into the wilderness to meet him. God told Moses He would be his voice and speak for him and that He would be Aaron’s voice and speak for him. Moses is a great example of a humble servant of God, sent forth to do God’s work. May Rick Perry be our present day Moses and be the one that God uses to deliver us from the pure evil that is running our government. We no longer have a government that is truthful and faithful to the constitution. We have a government that lies. And government officials that are liars. We need God-fearing people in office.

FastTalker on January 15, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Random on January 15, 2012 at 6:51 PM

Oh, stop it with your aggrieved self, already. You pulled a reference from some skeptic web site about Numbers out of context to slam Perry (who I don’t care for and never made any bones about it) out of context when Perry was only referencing ONE aspect of Moses (his speech problems) and make the claim that for these out of context reasons, you can’t respect Perry. And in defense, you reference ANOTHER thread which I guess is supposed to imply that you do somehow respect Perry? And this passes for “intellectual honesty?”

Please…

Kraken on January 15, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Moses was a very primitive savage. People soon learned it was better to subjugate defeated people and incorporate them into your empire rather than butcher them all.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Are you trying to tell us that 3000 years ago people didn’t have the same sensibilities that we have today? I’m shocked to hear that.

Gelsomina on January 15, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Oh, come off it. “Perry compares himself to Moses.” “I don’t think I can support someone who would compare himself to a primitive savage.” More of the anti-religious bigots’ showing how they win friends and influence people.

ddrintn on January 15, 2012 at 6:58 PM

Well, he did compare himself to Moses. Moses was a monster, in modern terms.

You just can’t handle that fact.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:12 PM

FastTalker on January 15, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Thank you very much.

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 7:13 PM

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:05 PM

That’s what happens when you read the Bible like a technician.

See here:Mark 12:28 – 34

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:13 PM

I am not 100% sure why Perry has fully floundered after several consecutive strong debates free of senior moments, and the debunking of the point that he’s pro-illegal….

Because he has no ideas that are realistic or useful….

Dude.

He did repeatedly advocate re-invading Iraq and also put down “Vulture capitalism”, the kind that eliminates unproductive, unprofitable jobs; replacing them with the profitable, productive variety in different parts of the economy.

I’m sure that Lenin would completely agree that last one is doable. Napoleon would be down with the first one.

What’s not practical about them thar policies????

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Moses was a monster, in modern terms.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:12 PM

THAT’S what this election cylce needs.

A monster.

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:20 PM

I already have. Numbers 31. Read it.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 6:33 PM

Sorry, but linking to info from a website called “The Skeptic’s Bible” doesn’t neccessarily sway me.

Nor is it clear in the propaganda there that Moses condoned, let alone participated, in child rape.

ccrosby on January 15, 2012

Then read it from your own ——— Bible.

You’ll notice I didn’t include a link to you in response to your comment — just a citation.

The behavior described is reprehensible, and it also answers your question, particularly when Moses says: “But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” (KJV — but pick your own, by all means)

You face a choice here: Choose your religious faith or choose moral decency.

Moral decency hasn’t a chance!

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:21 PM

If nothing else, Rick Perry — in all his imperfection — remains likable. In fact, he’s arguably even more likable now than when he entered the presidential race with all the apparent arrogance of a man who had famously never lost an election. Chastened by his own mistakes, he’s learned to take himself lightly but his principles seriously.

posted at 5:00 pm on January 15, 2012 by Tina Korbe

I hope you understand a little better why many of us are pulling for Perry.

ZGMF_Freedom on January 15, 2012 at 7:21 PM

Dr Evil on January 15, 2012 at 5:44 PM
ccrosby on January 15, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Hey, I know how tempting it is, but it’s also pointless. Genius has its limits–stupidity, on the other hand…

And wow, things move fast around here. A gal wanders off for some dinner, and comes back to three pages of comments.

DrMagnolias on January 15, 2012 at 7:22 PM

Sorry, but linking to info from a website called “The Skeptic’s Bible” doesn’t neccessarily sway me.

Nor is it clear in the propaganda there that Moses condoned, let alone participated, in child rape.

ccrosby on January 15, 2012 at 7:00 PM

Have to say I agree with this. Evidently one just reads it to mean automatically that all 36,000 virgins immediately suffered child rape even though there clear rules that the Jews followed in regards to how slaves were to be treated. Child rape was not on the list of things that were allowed.

Of course that doesn’t matter when one is taking things out of context in an effort to make things seem as bad a possible.

One wonders what kind of life someone has when the first thing that leaps to mind at the thought of 36,000 young girls is rape.

Then again Godwin’s Law states this one lost his argument the minute Hitler was mentioned. I don’t believe the Himmler invocation mitigates that whatsoever.

Lily on January 15, 2012 at 7:22 PM

workingclass artist on January 15, 2012 at 7:02 PM

I’m sorry, but I see nothing in that salacious story which indicates that Romney compared himself to a Biblical figure. Perhaps you could point to the sentence/paragraph I must have missed.

Buy Danish on January 15, 2012 at 7:22 PM

Well, he did compare himself to Moses. Moses was a monster, in modern terms.

You just can’t handle that fact.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:12 PM

So you too are saying the biblical account is true.

ddrintn on January 15, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Perry will be the choice of a brokered convention.

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Gelsomina on January 15, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Well said. Many people have a limited and shallow understanding of history.

DrMagnolias on January 15, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:13 PM

I rarely read anyone’s bible. Let me be a little less “technical” for you and talk about a larger picture. The 10 C’s, whatever one thinks of them, are a collection of rules concerning individual behavior. The BoR and the rest of the Constitution are a collection of laws defining a system of rules for government. See the difference?

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Gatordoug on January 15, 2012 at 7:00 PM

I find him to be a brilliant speaker when he gets going like last night or at the Tea Party rallies, etc. When he first got in, the media all said that he was like a Southern preacher. That back-pain and short, 30 second answers in too many debates (plus the dog-piling on by Santorum, Bachmann, and Mitt) didn’t let him break lose. On the trail and in interviews he could. Now that the backpain is gone, he’s his old self even in debates.

Aslans Girl on January 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM

Two points:
1.I think Perry is a great governor-but he’s not going to get the nomination. What he’s doing now is too little-too late. His class-warfare attack on Mitt smacked of shameless desperation. I still support Perry-but thems are the breaks.
2. Contrary to what you might read in these threads-Mitt Romney is not the enemy…Obama is. While I’m not a huge Romney fan , he-or ANY of the other likelies(Ron Paul excepted) would be vastly superior to the current occupant of the Oval Office. Some of you seem to think that the end goal is to deafet Mitt Romney. You’re wrong. The goal is to make sure that Barry is out-of-a-job as of 01/2013.
ABO in 2012!

annoyinglittletwerp on January 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM

“…in an effort to make things seem as bad a possible.”

You know, we as a society view child rape as LESS of a crime than child murder, right?

And aside from the fact that taking women after slaughtering their families and giving them to the warriors who slaughtered their families is clearly rape by modern definitions …

… there’s the little matter of slaughtering their families.

Like killing their older sisters, their mothers, their grandparents — their little baby brothers! — you defend evil.

Lily, no uncertain terms, I personally hate — hate — you for your defense of this monstrous evil.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:28 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on January 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM

You go girl!

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:28 PM

So you too are saying the biblical account is true.

ddrintn on January 15, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Moses is a character in a story. Whether or not the events in the story are true, either entirely or in part, has nothing to do with the character of the character in the story.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:29 PM

I appreciate Random pointing the hypocrisy of those who condemn Mohammed, yet apologize and try to justify the actions of Moses. It really shows that their hatred of Islam is just blind bigotry and racism towards the various non-European groups who follow Islam, rather than a principled stand against the barbarism of the founder.

When they aren’t openly excusing Moses’ actions, they make comments like “lighten up dude”. Gee, you realize a muslim could make the same comments regarding Muhammed, right? “Being a raping mass-murderer is no big deal, when you’re like, a prophet, and stuff.”

Someone who isn’t a blind partisan bigot would condemn Moses with just as much gusto as they condemn Muhammed. More actually. Hypocrites.

Daikokuco on January 15, 2012 at 6:35 PM

According to your own definition you must be racist, since you hate Christians.

Gelsomina on January 15, 2012 at 7:31 PM

Lily, no uncertain terms, I personally hate — hate — you for your defense of this monstrous evil.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:28 PM

Don’t hate her for that. Do not hate any of them. They know not what they do.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:32 PM

ALT, but why use his innocent “I can relate to Moses” remark as the thread for you to state “*sigh*” “come home, Gov” in? It’s out of place here and especially after last night’s rocking forum.

I’ve been reading articles that interviewed people after the forum and some Newt backers are now saying that after seeing Perry, they are now Perry supporters. Some polls the other day showed him doubling his support in both SC and nationally (ARG an CNN, respectively). Santorum went from 2% to 24% in IA in three days. Anyhing this cycle is possible. This cycle is also unlike any other becaase of proportional delegetes. Perry, because he won two counties in IA, actually has one more delegate than Newt has.

Prayers for Perry to pull an upset in SC.

Aslans Girl on January 15, 2012 at 7:34 PM

More Muslims are Indonesian and South East Asian than Caucasian (including Arab).

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:34 PM

This thead is proof that AP and Ed let in some wonderful new posters from the open registration! That add so much intelligence to our conversations here, don’t they? ///

HA is going down the tubes.

Aslans Girl on January 15, 2012 at 7:36 PM

Rick Perry is the best thing that could happen to this country.
I get so tired of hearing (I love his ideas, if only he was electable) Are you kidding me? I do not think the good people of Texas would keep electing him if he was so unelectable. Who is telling you he can’t be elected? The “so called conserative” and liberal media” who both have the purpose to influence your vote.
I hope and pray people go with their instincts and what their heart tells them and not be influenced by this lying media.

Tn.-Vol on January 15, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Well said. Many people have a limited and shallow understanding of history.

DrMagnolias on January 15, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Moses was a monster. He would be a monster now. He was a monster then, only most people were monsters like him back then. That is why we call them “savages.”

We are not as tolerant of monsters like Moses quite so much anymore. We certainly do not use them as examples of people whose behavior should be emulated.

The Muslims do. That is why civilized people regard them as savages.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Ironic how the folks most willing to assault Rick Perry for his faith are backing a Mormon (whose faith is even more strict than most brands of fundagelical Christianity).

I’m a Texan and a Pagan, and I have been living well in Texas. The only problems my husband has had finding work as a nurse relate either to 0bamacare or to Austin having too many open nursing school slots (which attracts nursing students who freakin’ STAY in Austin instead of going back where they came from when they graduate). We see license plates from across the country here, in all Texas cities. All of my friends of all faiths live in prosperity and peace.

I do not hold Rick Perry’s expression of his personal faith against him. I fight for his freedom and the freedom of all people of all faiths to express their faiths, as I expect them to fight for mine.

Sekhmet on January 15, 2012 at 7:40 PM

Anybody want to hear a story about a gay college roommate and a set of handcuffs?
/

VegasRick on January 15, 2012 at 7:42 PM

This thead is proof that AP and Ed let in some wonderful new posters from the open registration! That add so much intelligence to our conversations here, don’t they? ///

HA is going down the tubes.

Aslans Girl on January 15, 2012 at 7:36 PM

I think someone at Frumforum or some other nasty Romney forum were waiting for open registration, then sent out the alert

Sekhmet on January 15, 2012 at 7:42 PM

Moses was a monster. He would be a monster now. He was a monster then, only most people were monsters like him back then. That is why we call them “savages.”

Note that Moses’s troops were not as eager for blood as he was. They killed the males, but just killing the women and children didn’t actually occur to them to do until ordered.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:42 PM

I rarely read anyone’s bible. Let me be a little less “technical” for you and talk about a larger picture. The 10 C’s, whatever one thinks of them, are a collection of rules concerning individual behavior. The BoR and the rest of the Constitution are a collection of laws defining a system of rules for government. See the difference?

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:24 PM

LARGER PICTURE?! Are you kidding me? That’s not a larger picture; that’s a personal perpsective.

Politics, at least in the West, has been accurately defined as the principles of a proper social system. That social system is built on a system of ethics, which are informed by the cultures inherited morals and virtues.

What difference?

You can’t compartmentalize reality like that and get away with it.

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:43 PM

I think someone at Frumforum or some other nasty Romney forum were waiting for open registration, then sent out the alert

1. I don’t support Mitt Romney’s candidacy.
2. IF I DID, so F’n what? He’s the frontrunner, FFS.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:44 PM

Ironic how the folks most willing to assault Rick Perry for his faith are backing a Mormon (whose faith is even more strict than most brands of fundagelical Christianity).

Sekhmet on January 15, 2012 at 7:40 PM

When I criticize Perry regarding his faith, it is not because of what he believes, but because of his willingness to both pander it and stir up prejudices as well as his willingness to entangle government in it. If, like Romney, he practiced his religion without trying to politicize it I would admire him for standing by what he believes while being faithful to our system of government.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:44 PM

culture’s

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:45 PM

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:28 PM

How do you feel about advocacy for punishment such as cutting out tongues, chopping off hands, etc. in Hammurabi’s code (since you “prefer Hammurabi?”)

cs89 on January 15, 2012 at 7:45 PM

I probably prefer it to child rape and murder of true innocents.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:46 PM

Note that Moses’s troops were not as eager for blood as he was. They killed the males, but just killing the women and children didn’t actually occur to them to do until ordered.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:42 PM

Good point. The warriors were more merciful than Moses was. He was angered at them for their mercy.

And people here want to defend that? Because God told Moses to do it?

No wonder so many people fear the religious right getting power over them.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:48 PM

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:39 PM

It’s way past time for you to STFU. You have added nothing of positive value to this thread, plus your mind is ugly.

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:43 PM

It isn’t compartmentalizing. It is recognition of the plain fact that our government was designed to allow individuals to pursue happiness in their own way. Your religion is a guide for those who follow it to for individuals to pursue it in the ways it specifies. It is not a difference of degree, it is a difference of kind.

Consider:

10 C’s: Thou shalt keep the Sabbath holy.
BoR: Government shalt not keep the Sabbath holy.

Vive la difference!

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:48 PM

When I criticize Perry regarding his faith, it is not because of what he believes, but because of his willingness to both pander it and stir up prejudices as well as his willingness to entangle government in it. If, like Romney, he practiced his religion without trying to politicize it I would admire him for standing by what he believes while being faithful to our system of government.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:44 PM

Unlike you, I live in Texas, I am neither Christian nor Jewish, and if someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, it’s probably someone wanting me to stop singing along with YouTube :)

Sekhmet on January 15, 2012 at 7:49 PM

true innocents.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:46 PM

Pffft!!!!

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:50 PM

Two points:

1.I think Perry is a great governor-but he’s not going to get the nomination. What he’s doing now is too little-too late. His class-warfare attack on Mitt smacked of shameless desperation. I still support Perry-but thems are the breaks.
2. Contrary to what you might read in these threads-Mitt Romney is not the enemy…Obama is. While I’m not a huge Romney fan , he-or ANY of the other likelies(Ron Paul excepted) would be vastly superior to the current occupant of the Oval Office. Some of you seem to think that the end goal is to deafet Mitt Romney. You’re wrong. The goal is to make sure that Barry is out-of-a-job as of 01/2013.
ABO in 2012!

annoyinglittletwerp on January 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM

Two points

1. It’s still legal in this country for a voter to support their choice in the primary and be vocal about it.

2. The goal in a primary is for voters to decide who the nominee will be and since this is not the usual winner take all GOP primary…this is a long way from being over.

workingclass artist on January 15, 2012 at 7:50 PM

I see my earlier post went all but unnoticed by our resident Christian/Hebrew haters (sorry for using Jewish earlier…semantics…). Doesn’t surprise me at all that they ignored the other side though.

Best to let them be. They don’t want to know beyond what they think they already do.

Pattosensei on January 15, 2012 at 7:51 PM

They don’t want to know beyond what they think they already do.

Pattosensei on January 15, 2012 at 7:51 PM

With ya, girl…

Kraken on January 15, 2012 at 7:52 PM

our government was designed to allow individuals to pursue happiness in their own way.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:48 PM

This is why I consider Libertarians even lower than Liberals.

At leas t Liberals have a moral code. A wildy distorted code, but a code nonetheless.

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:53 PM

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:53 PM

So that Declaration of Independence must really burn your buns.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:54 PM

our government was designed to allow individuals to pursue happiness in their own way.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:48 PM

No, actually, our government was designed to protect the sovereignity of the individual within a specific moral context.

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:55 PM

Three pages of Moses is Hitler debates on a Rick Perry thread. This is why I love Hot Air!

squint on January 15, 2012 at 7:56 PM

So that Declaration of Independence must really burn your buns.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:54 PM

The Declaration of Independence could not have even been conceived with the Western mindset of the early 21st century.

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:56 PM

This thead is proof that AP and Ed let in some wonderful new posters from the open registration! That add so much intelligence to our conversations here, don’t they? ///

HA is going down the tubes.

Aslans Girl on January 15, 2012 at 7:36 PM

It’s not the place it used to be that’s for sure :(

gophergirl on January 15, 2012 at 7:56 PM

Moses is a character in a story. Whether or not the events in the story are true, either entirely or in part, has nothing to do with the character of the character in the story.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Moses was a man. He lived on this earth 3500 years ago. He was born a slave in Egypt, was taken into Pharaoh’s home by Pharaoh’s sister, and grew up receiving the finest education available, at the time, in the world. He authored the first five books of God’s word, the Bible. He also was a shepherd, and delivered the Jewish people out of bondage under the Egyptian government, among other things, including delivering the 10 commandments to the Jewish people. The laws that supersede all other laws in society. He performed many miracles, guiding the Isarelites through their 40 years of wandering in the desert before dying and being buried by God Himself on Mt Nebo overlooking the promised land. He is depicted on the doors of our Supreme Court building in Washington, D.C. A storybook character he is not.

FastTalker on January 15, 2012 at 7:58 PM

Perry will be the choice of a brokered convention.

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Are you trying to cheer me up my friend?

In a perfect world… in GG’s perfect world :)

gophergirl on January 15, 2012 at 7:58 PM

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:55 PM

I’ve read our Constitution. In fact, I’ve read it thoroughly and frequently and no where does it speak of any “moral context.” You made that up, didn’t you?

However, when one refers to the DoI, the “moral context” is plainly stated as including equality under the law, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Sorry, it’s kind of short on Sabbaths and the like.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:59 PM

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is IMHO illustrative of the length and breadth to which people from that part of the world hold a grudge. Kids can grow up to be adults, who could rally around destroying the people who conquered them. Just saying.

Sekhmet on January 15, 2012 at 8:01 PM

We are not as tolerant of monsters like Moses quite so much anymore. We certainly do not use them as examples of people whose behavior should be emulated.
fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Who are you calling “we”, Kemosabe?

You are not morally and intellectually superior to anybody who has lived before you. You are not the zenith of mankind. Get off that high horse.

Gelsomina on January 15, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Don’t hate her for that. Do not hate any of them. They know not what they do.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:32 PM

I don’t think he/she can help it. It’s the motivating factor here.

Someone like that who can only mouth hate when presented with a person who does not agree, can’t really help it.

I am sorry to have provoked such, however, it was not my intention. It used to be discussions on Hotair could be had on the merits, however, that is no longer the case.

Lily on January 15, 2012 at 8:05 PM

I’ve read our Constitution.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:59 PM

Yeah, and you read it with a late 20th century mentality, informed by the popular culture of the day. And your own personal preferences, no doubt.

Can you not see the difference between these two ideas?:

our government was designed to allow individuals to pursue happiness in their own way.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:48 PM
No, actually, our government was designed to protect the sovereignity of the individual within a specific moral context.

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 7:55 PM

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 8:05 PM

It’s not the place it used to be that’s for sure :(

gophergirl on January 15, 2012 at 7:56 PM

Well, it can’t be too bad – you’re still here.

Are you trying to cheer me up my friend?

In a perfect world… in GG’s perfect world :)

gophergirl on January 15, 2012 at 7:58 PM

If you get cheered up, good for you. But it is my prediction: Perry will be the brokered convention’s choice. And it will work as Rick can clearly make it a God-vs-godless campaign.

If Jugears is smart, he’ll resign or decline to be nominated. Rick will make sure Jugears is the historical footnote he deserves to be.

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 8:05 PM

Moses had a speech impediment. He stuttered. He never forgot one of the commandments though.

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:07 PM

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 8:05 PM

You just made me smile and since I’ve been down in the political dumps so to speak – thank you :)

gophergirl on January 15, 2012 at 8:08 PM

FastTalker on January 15, 2012 at 7:58 PM

Not just the Jews. Moses led the Hebrews (12 tribes), not just the Jews (1 tribe).

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 8:08 PM

true innocents.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 7:46 PM

Pffft!!!!

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012

I consider young virgin girls and, if not them, baby boys to be true innocents.

You sick rotten bastard.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 8:08 PM

I’ve read our Constitution. In fact, I’ve read it thoroughly and frequently… Sorry, it’s kind of short on Sabbaths and the like.
MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 7:59 PM

Actually, the Constitution makes it illegal for a bill to be ratified on Sunday.

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:08 PM

I actually find Rick Perry incredibly UNLIKABLE, and this was coming from an early supporter.

A more grounded and humble man would have been able to assess that he simply can’t play ball at this level, and thanked his lucky stars that he got as far as he did in politics. Obviously, he became Governor mainly by just being at the right place at the right time in a now one-party state.

At this point, he’s simply become a laughingstock by continuing on and campaigning like he’s Michael Moore against Romney. The fact that just a few days ago he STILL can’t remember the 3 agencies he wants to “give pink slips to” should send a shudder down every conservatives’ spine that we almost gave him the nomination.

BradTank on January 15, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 8:05 PM

Yes, I see the difference quite clearly. The first one is true. The second is only true when one understands that the more context include the ideas of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Looking at it from an 18th century mindset it was radical! The notion that the purpose of government was to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

It flew in the face of political philosophy up to that time. It obviated the political philosophy, BTW, that was based on your very own bible in which governments were seen as paternalistic entities with Christian monarchs in charge of seeing to the happiness of their subjects.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 8:10 PM

I don’t think he/she can help it. It’s the motivating factor here.

No, it’s actually love of children and of innocents.

Someone like that who can only mouth hate when presented with a person who does not agree, can’t really help it.

I will continue to hate those who defend mass child murder and child rape. That means I hate you personally. So be it. You deserve it.

I am sorry to have provoked such, however, it was not my intention. It used to be discussions on Hotair could be had on the merits, however, that is no longer the case.

The merits of defending mass child murder?

The merits?

You are a sick human being.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 8:11 PM

You just made me smile and since I’ve been down in the political dumps so to speak – thank you :)

gophergirl on January 15, 2012 at 8:08 PM

Just one of the many services I provide. Sarcasm is another (but you already knew that).

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 8:12 PM

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:08 PM

Actually you are wrong. The only nod to custom in this regard follows:

If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted)

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 8:13 PM

I consider young virgin girls and, if not them, baby boys to be true innocents

Random on January 15, 2012 at 8:08 PM

Why am I suspicious of your referencing young virgins and little boys?

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 8:15 PM

I actually find Rick Perry incredibly UNLIKABLE, and this was coming from an early supporter.

Ditto.

At this point, he’s simply become a laughingstock by continuing on and campaigning like he’s Michael Moore against Romney.

Thread winner. Love it.

The fact that just a few days ago he STILL can’t remember the 3 agencies he wants to “give pink slips to” should send a shudder down every conservatives’ spine that we almost gave him the nomination.

Yeah. And then there was the awful “Strong” ad.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 8:15 PM

If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Article I Section 7

You’re right. It ain’t illegal, Sundays just don’t count in the mandated days because of the Christian faith presidents are exprected to possess.

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:16 PM

It’s way past time for you to STFU. You have added nothing of positive value to this thread, plus your mind is ugly.

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Thank you for your contribution to the thread. It is sad that you regard my mind as ugly but the mind of a mass murdering monster like Moses as something to be admired.

As I said before, I can see why so many people fear being under the political control of the religious right.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 8:16 PM

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:16 PM

but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States

Thanks for playing.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 8:19 PM

Thank you for your contribution to the thread. It is sad that you regard my mind as ugly but the mind of a mass murdering monster like Moses as something to be admired. fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 8:16 PM

And who is this mass murderer Moses of whom you speak?

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM

FastTalker on January 15, 2012 at 7:58 PM

Not just the Jews. Moses led the Hebrews (12 tribes), not just the Jews (1 tribe).

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 8:08 PM

I think you mixed me up with a previous poster that got that wrong. Have a good night!

FastTalker on January 15, 2012 at 8:21 PM

Looking at it from an 18th century mindset it was radical! The notion that the purpose of government was to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

Would an 18th century’s mindset include the idea that serial sexual relations between same gendered individual constitutes the same moral context as sexual realtions between heterosexual adults?

Why or why not?

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Thanks for playing. MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 8:19 PM

I’m not advocating that. Funny thing though, conventioneers were required to take them by the states that sent them.

“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” -John Jay.

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:23 PM

And who is this mass murderer Moses of whom you speak?

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM

Numbers 31.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 8:23 PM

fadetogray, if God tells you to put a sword through a baby it’s cool, you feelin’ it bro? Just like that time I could feel in my heart He wanted me to dash ‘em against rocks. I did it with a smile with full love for the Lord, I tell ya.

Random on January 15, 2012 at 8:24 PM

Thank you for your contribution to the thread. It is sad that you regard my mind as ugly but the mind of a mass murdering monster like Moses as something to be admired. fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 8:16 PM

And who is this mass murderer Moses of whom you speak?

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM

Oh, please do make it start from the beginning…

ccrosby on January 15, 2012 at 8:24 PM

Numbers 31. fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 8:23 PM

So you see no difference between warfare and murder?

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:25 PM

the more I read posts from people here, it is easy to see how an Obama or a Romney get votes….there are truly a lot of dumb people around

georgealbert on January 15, 2012 at 8:26 PM

preaching to the converted but to the rest of us who are not christians, who do not believe moses existed, who do not be believe moses wrote the pentateuch, more reason to not want perry to be the nominee( or to hold any secular political office where he has power over those who do not believe as he does). it’s a self congratulating echo chamber of people who believe the president has to be a religious leader, in essence, despite the fact that this flies in the face of everything our founders believed. moses in our world view is both a secular and a religious leader- the history of a race of people, of israel and judaism begin with the myth of moses- which also exists in egyptian and akkadian myths that predate the evolution of judaism and the “writing” of the books of the old testament.

but we are a pluralistic society based on the idea that our citizens are free to live and worship or not worship as they choose. perry reflects a lighter shade of the sort of mindset that demands a caliphate on earth- but our constitution and bill of rights demands a secular leader and no favoritism toward one or another church. i want a president who upholds the rights of all our citizens because ,simply, they are citizens whatever they might believe. his hyperdrive polarizing get the evangelicals, who already think romney belongs to a depraved cult, drive is just that. i am not convinced that perry will uphold the rights equally of nonbelievers and nonchristians. he has a history for using law to enforce his personal beliefs.

right now he’s just a wooing a particular GOP flank for the sake of stranding romney between those who will vote for him because they feel he’s our best option to unseat the boy king and evangelicals who enjoy making nominees get on their knees before them to plead grovel and conform to their religious views to obtain their vote. another messianic narcissist- only christian not secular like obama. most messianic narcissists are not beholden to their lord, their god, or their political beliefs no matter how forcefully the express them- they are beholden to themselves. perry was previously a democrat-how revealing and self serving like religious rhetoric in pursuit of power over others in a secular democracy.

mittens on January 15, 2012 at 8:28 PM

georgealbert on January 15, 2012 at 8:26 PM

It is disturbing, isn’t it?

I agree with the originals who feel HA has suffered from the open registration, even though I benefited.

It’s not the same HA.

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 8:28 PM

Thank you for your contribution to the thread. It is sad that you regard my mind as ugly but the mind of a mass murdering monster like Moses as something to be admired. fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 8:16 PM

And who is this mass murderer Moses of whom you speak?

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM

Oh, please do make it start from the beginning…

ccrosby on January 15, 2012 at 8:24 PM

Yikes! Meant DON’T

ccrosby on January 15, 2012 at 8:30 PM

So you see no difference between warfare and murder?

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:25 PM

The war was over. He had the women and children slaughtered (except for the young virgin girls, of course). Thousands of them.

Think about it, people. Really think about what he did. Think of the horror. The ten year old and six year old boys being butchered like pigs, screaming. Women being slaughtered as they begged for mercy.

Thousands. Thousands of women and children the warriors had spared, but Moses wanted killed.

Attila and Ghenghis had nothing on this monster Moses.

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 8:32 PM

Would an 18th century’s mindset include the idea that serial sexual relations between same gendered individual constitutes the same moral context as sexual realtions between heterosexual adults?

Why or why not?

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Once again, you are conflating individual behavior with the government. Our Constitution does not talk about what forms of sexuality are proper or legal or otherwise mention it. It grants powers to the states to make laws provided that those laws are consistent with the BoR and other parts of the Constitution.

And in case you didn’t know it, homosexuality existed prior to as well as after ratification. In fact, it was around before Moses was supposedly put in his basket. Hard to believe, huh? At some points in history it was met with moral approbation and other times it wasn’t. I don’t recall a single founder weighing in on the subject aside from that pursuit of happiness thing.

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 8:32 PM

mittens on January 15, 2012 at 8:28 PM

I bet you don’t have a clue how confused and wrong you are. Do you?

Of course you don’t. Your agenda is far more important than truth and accuracy.

platypus on January 15, 2012 at 8:33 PM

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 8:32 PM

They were disease ridden, if you read the rest of the chapter you’d know that anything they touched was to have been burned. NAMBLA would have been very much at home among the Midianites.

I think the 8th Air Force in WWII killed hundreds of times more children than Moses did.

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:36 PM

I don’t recall a single founder weighing in on the subject aside from that pursuit of happiness thing. MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 8:32 PM

At a General Court Martial whereof Colo. Tupper was President (10th March 1778), Lieutt. Enslin of Colo. Malcom’s Regiment [was] tried for attempting to commit sodomy, with John Monhort a soldier; Secondly, For Perjury in swearing to false accounts, [he was] found guilty of the charges exhibited against him, being breaches of 5th. Article 18th. Section of the Articles of War and [we] do sentence him to be dismiss’d [from] the service with infamy. His Excellency the Commander in Chief approves the sentence and with abhorrence and detestation of such infamous crimes orders Lieutt. Enslin to be drummed out of camp tomorrow morning by all the drummers and fifers in the Army never to return; The drummers and fifers [are] to attend on the Grand Parade at Guard mounting for that Purpose. George Washington, The Writings of George Washington, John C. Fitzpatrick, editor (Washington: U. S. Government Printing Office, 1934), Vol. XI, pp. 83-84, from General Orders at Valley Forge on March 14, 1778.

Thomas Jefferson said that homosexuality “should be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting through the cartilage of her nose a hole of one-half inch in diameter as least. Pines B. BACK TO BASICS. NY Morrow, 1982, p. 211.

Akzed on January 15, 2012 at 8:41 PM

fadetogray on January 15, 2012 at 7:39 PM

I’m afraid you can’t see me rolling my eyes from here.

DrMagnolias on January 15, 2012 at 8:45 PM

Wow! Just Wow!!!

Religion sure brings out the ugly in some people.

Barred on January 15, 2012 at 8:45 PM

Politics too….

Barred on January 15, 2012 at 8:47 PM

MJBrutus on January 15, 2012 at 8:32 PM

Mindset, MJ, mindset. We were talking about mindset, remember? And moral context.

Now, I don’t mean this to be an insult but, I consider you an intelligent poster but you’re not really a deep thinker, are you?

Cleombrotus on January 15, 2012 at 8:48 PM

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