Taxing our way to prosperity… again

posted at 1:30 pm on January 14, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

Last year we discussed the story of how Georgia Governor Nathan Deal wound up having a conversation with Grover Norquist on the subject of taxes. (Who could have guessed that one?) Norquist warned Deal about the dangers of trying to balance the budget by way of jacking up excise taxes on things like tobacco, alcohol or sweetened drinks. The Georgian listened and the plan was tabled.

In case they’re thinking about revisiting that “solution” in the future, they may want to check in with the Big Apple and see how well things worked out for Mayor Bloomberg and Governor Cuomo. These economic masterminds apparently became concerned over the holidays with the condition of the state and city’s coffers. A new law had been passed which forbid cigarette distributors from selling untaxed packs to Native American reservations. This, in theory, was supposed to force residents back to the normal convenience stores to pay the record breaking tax levels for smokes there, resulting in an extra $130M in tax revenue for 2011. So… how did that work out?

The state’s tax collectors were recently calling around to convenience-store owners, wondering what was up. The $130 million in extra tax that Albany was expecting from a change in the law about cigarette sales on Indian reservations wasn’t happening.

A memo sent to members of the New York Association of Convenience Stores from the group’s president, Jim Calvin — a copy of which I have on my desk — said, “I got a call from Gov. Cuomo’s budget office yesterday. In examining cigarette tax receipts so far this fiscal year (April 1 to March 31) it looks like they will fall considerably short of their projection in new revenues. . . .”

So how much extra did the state collect in tax with the law change?

The state Department of Taxation did not return a call for comment.

But according to Calvin’s memo, “Cuomo’s budget office” was saying that cigarette tax revenues were flat this past October and November with the year before.

That seems to mean that Albany is $130 million short on its $130 million projection.

That’s right. They went through all manner of legal wrangling, sparking constitutional challenges, ruined relations with the tribes and continued our push to displace Massachusetts as the worst taxed place to live in the nation and got.. a big goose egg. Meanwhile people continue to leave the state. Some leave for day trips, preferring to do their shopping in Pennsylvania. Others leave permanently, which is precisely why New York lost two congressional seats after the last census and is still haggling over the redistricting process.

But fear not! We’ve got a new plan. This time we’ll try a millionaire’s tax. That should fix everything!


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

NY voters got what they wanted.. and they deserve every part of him.

upinak on January 14, 2012 at 1:36 PM

The definition of insanity…

Roy Rogers on January 14, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Liberals always confuse higher taxes with higher revenues.

SlaveDog on January 14, 2012 at 1:38 PM

If I lose my job I am seriously going to consider going into cigarette smuggling. You can make thousands of dollars in cash, easily, just by transporting cigarettes from red states to blue ones. Hell, I can do so even without going that far, one of our NEIGHBORING states under their previous insane governor jacked up their taxes to insanity.

wildcat72 on January 14, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Don’t miss this

January 14, 2012

Huckabee Forum 2: South Carolina Undecided
8pm ET on Fox News (taped broadcast)
Location: Sottile Theatre at the College of Charleston, South Carolina
Sponsor: Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, Congressman Tim Scott (R-SC) and Fox News
Participants: Romney, Perry, Gingrich, Santorum, Huntsman (Unofficial list)

Schadenfreude on January 14, 2012 at 1:40 PM

A new law had been passed which forbid cigarette distributors from selling untaxed packs to Native American reservations.

More liberal racism. Nothing surprises me. Which party fought for slavery again?

abobo on January 14, 2012 at 1:42 PM

upinak on January 14, 2012 at 1:36 PM

Hey, I didn`t want and and I didn`t deserve him! :-P

ThePrez on January 14, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Wow , glad I quit smoaking 4 days ago . It does
give me a lot of pleasure not to pay the damn tax .

Lucano on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Business owners and consumers will find a way to survive around taxation. Tax us reasonably for the services provided and we’ll pay our fair share. Over tax us for substandard quality of government, then we’ll buy items at garage sales and over the internet. Business will pay employees under the table. Those that work in cash such as small contractors and wait staff will claim less earnings. If the revenue projected isn’t showing up, then it’s a good indicator the government is taxing well beyond the quality of services they provide.

mtucker5695 on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Just an FYI, my income, property and sales taxes are lower in Massachusetts than when I lived in Atlanta Georgia last year. I was shocked.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM

The wonders of static tax analysis strikes again. When will they learn?

Meric1837 on January 14, 2012 at 1:46 PM

Hey, I didn`t want and and I didn`t deserve him! :-P

ThePrez on January 14, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Sweetie, I didn’t make you live in the Big Apple!

upinak on January 14, 2012 at 1:48 PM

. If the revenue projected isn’t showing up, then it’s a good indicator the government is taxing well beyond the quality of services they provide.

mtucker5695 on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM

That;s some home-grown extremist talk right there buddy, you better watch it.

abobo on January 14, 2012 at 1:48 PM

If I lose my job I am seriously going to consider going into cigarette smuggling. You can make thousands of dollars in cash, easily, just by transporting cigarettes from red states to blue ones. Hell, I can do so even without going that far, one of our NEIGHBORING states under their previous insane governor jacked up their taxes to insanity.

wildcat72 on January 14, 2012 at 1:39 PM

I’ve thought about doing the same with perscription drugs. What we pay in the U.S. is insane compared to what they cost in Mexico and Canada. I’ve spoken to several seniors that pay upwards of $700.00 a month for drugs that would cost less than a $100.00 from just south of the border. But we have Bush to thank for that.

mtucker5695 on January 14, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Increasing taxes or fees does not necessarily equate into higher revenues?
Who’da thought?

KOOLAID2 on January 14, 2012 at 1:53 PM

Sweetie, I didn’t make you live in the Big Apple!

upinak on January 14, 2012 at 1:48 PM

I live in Syracuse, NY. and I was thinking of Cuomo. You do realize there`s a giant land mass above NYC that`s called New York State. :-P

ThePrez on January 14, 2012 at 1:53 PM

Liberals always confuse higher taxes with higher revenues.

SlaveDog on January 14, 2012 at 1:38 PM

It’s not “confusion.”

Liberals just intentionally lie about that nonsense, and the Republicans/media never challenge them on it.

Aizen on January 14, 2012 at 1:53 PM

I’m surprised they didn’t run into some federal issues with the Native American cigarette bill.

What’s worse than the tax increase? They probably calculated how much money they would get and then went ahead and borrowed against it and spent the money before receiving a single penny. Then you’ll see articles screaming about a serious budget deficit. Thus the circle begins anew.

I remember when I was a kid back in the 1970s and 1980s and how New York was a big deal in national elections because they had a large number of electoral votes. That numbers been dropping like a stone for decades. They had 41 votes in 1980 and they were down to 31 in 2008.

I wonder why all those people left?

/

Dack Thrombosis on January 14, 2012 at 1:53 PM

Wow , glad I quit smoaking 4 days ago . It does
give me a lot of pleasure not to pay the damn tax .

Lucano on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Good luck. A good piece of advice is, never change a carefully considered plan when you’re in a bad mood or angry. Wait till you’re in a good mood. Then you’ll probably realize that the plan (like quitting smoking) doesn’t need any changes. It needs to be followed.

RBMN on January 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM

Maine also had this same problem. Under the previous Governor (Baldacci, democrat) tobacco taxes were again raised, despite objections from retailers, citizens, etc.

The State legislature (democrat controlled then, both houses) calculated the new tax would bring in some $98 million dollars.

About 9 months later, the new taxes had only brought in some $70 million or less. The state was scrambling to meet this new “revenue shortfall” because, being morons, idiots and democrats (but I repeat myself) they had already budgeted and spent the $98 million they expected to receive.

Unlike normal folks who only spend the money they actually have, Maine’s democrats forgot that expected/projected income doesn’t always materialize. Maine’s tobacco users simply cut back, stopped smoking, or bought smokes elsewhere, Like New Hampshire.

A similar situation has played out in the past here in Maine regarding soda taxes, snack taxes, alcohol taxes etc. People voted with their wallets and simply cut back, quit or purchased elsewhere.

TKindred on January 14, 2012 at 1:55 PM

A new law had been passed which forbid cigarette distributors from selling untaxed packs to Native American reservations.

So? Are they rolling their own?

KOOLAID2 on January 14, 2012 at 1:57 PM

Wow , glad I quit smoaking 4 days ago . It does
give me a lot of pleasure not to pay the damn tax .

Lucano on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Hooray for you! You’ll live longer, feel better, and have a lot more money to spend on better things.

MelonCollie on January 14, 2012 at 2:00 PM

RBMN ,
Thanks for the advice . I’m pretty even keeled about most things except #€<~\%%*€ politics .
Ok , I feel better now .

Lucano on January 14, 2012 at 2:02 PM

This is more proof that raising taxes does NOT yield more revenue. Liberals will never understand or admit this, so the case needs to be made constantly. It is the heart of dem campaign strategy (tax the rich)and can be easily disproven like in this example. Conservatives need to consistently make the supply side case that raising taxes gives you less revenue and cutting taxes yields more. JFK cut top rate from 90 to 70 and tax revenues climbed from $94B to $153 billion. Reagan’s cuts led to a 99% increase in revenue in the 1980s. The facts are on the conservatives’ side. Why don’t they tout them more?

phillysfinest on January 14, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Bloomberg and the Dems will detroit the city. After all the productive people leave, they will be left with criminals, poor blacks, and illegal aliens. Then the fires, no go zones, Muslim ghettos will start.

pat on January 14, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Insert new tax, insert new consumer behavior, insert gov’t disappointment…it’s real easy libs and centuries of evidence..

hillsoftx on January 14, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Bloomberg and the Dems will detroit the city. After all the productive people leave, they will be left with criminals, poor blacks, and illegal aliens. Then the fires, no go zones, Muslim ghettos will start.

pat on January 14, 2012 at 2:04 PM

WTF?
WHAT?

KOOLAID2 on January 14, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Thanks MelonCollie …..I love that name !
A pup is part of my handle also . ( don’t tell my dog … He’d demand royalties )

Lucano on January 14, 2012 at 2:14 PM

wildcat72 on January 14, 2012 at 1:39 PM

I can save $1.50 a pack by buying smokes in NH instead of MA, and I live 20 min from the border, you better believe I take advantage of that. Hell, MA is so over-taxed that they keep trying to find a way to tax purchases from other states.

One weekend a year they do a sales tax “holiday” because they learned that people buy more stuff when it’s cheaper and they actually get a little boomlet in revenue, but they are too dumb to make the connection that lower taxes equal higher economic activity even when it is demonstrated every year.

Mord on January 14, 2012 at 2:16 PM

the record breaking tax levels for smokes there

Canada tried this about 10 years ago. To reduce smoking and to increase revenue, they raised the tax on cigarettes to the point a carton cost almost $100. Retail cigarette sales fell drastically as a result, and tax revenue declined as well.

The surprising thing to the government was that the smoking rate wasn’t declining. What, they said! How could this be possible??

It turns out, a robust black market had developed. People were either coming to the US to buy tobacco products, or they were buying them “out of the trunk” of smugglers. Cigarette theft increased both in Canada and along the border in the US. You couldn’t park a trailer load of Marlboro within a hundred miles of the border without guarding the thing.

Ultimately, they backed off of their high tax structure, resulting in more legal sales and the tax revenue they wanted.

BacaDog on January 14, 2012 at 2:18 PM

I’ve thought about doing the same with perscription drugs. What we pay in the U.S. is insane compared to what they cost in Mexico and Canada. I’ve spoken to several seniors that pay upwards of $700.00 a month for drugs that would cost less than a $100.00 from just south of the border. But we have Bush to thank for that.

mtucker5695 on January 14, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Are you talking about the Medicare Drug thing? That certainly hasn’t helped, but even worse is the fact that we’re subsidizing pharmaceuticals for the rest of the world. We pay through the nose so they can hand out that crap like candy in Africa and the rest of the third world.

Dack Thrombosis on January 14, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Remember, “Escape from New York” isn’t just a movie – it’s a real life fact. So, let me welcome all the real Americans who have finally had their fill of d-cRAT socialist extremism and move to a state that respects America and American values.

For those who leave a failed lunatic-left state for a better place and get “homesick” there is a solution. Every now and then a circus will come to your nice town and provide you with all the sights, sounds and smells associated with the Big Apple, or Chicago, or Boston, or San Fran, etc. (but without the muggings and molesting). And the best part is that after a week or so, THEY ALL GO AWAY !

TeaPartyNation on January 14, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Winston Churchill:

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.”

“We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.”

TeaPartyNation on January 14, 2012 at 2:20 PM

Escape from New York

Well, Richmond, Va. sucks.

Please don’t come here.

BacaDog on January 14, 2012 at 2:21 PM

Maine also had this same problem.

Maybe they can hit up Stephen King for some of that sweet lucre.

Oh, wait…Stephen King spends most of his time living in a castle in Florida now.

Maybe tax and spend Steve likes the warm Florida weather. It surely couldn’t be the lower taxes on just about everything!

Dack Thrombosis on January 14, 2012 at 2:21 PM

Why do these democrats keep picking on minorities?

BKeyser on January 14, 2012 at 2:26 PM

Why do these democrats keep picking on minorities?

BKeyser on January 14, 2012 at 2:26 PM

I saw something the other day, maybe it was around here, that there’s a move on to ban menthol cigarettes. It’s no secret that the majority of smokers that buy menthol cigarettes are black.

I wonder how that will go over?

Dack Thrombosis on January 14, 2012 at 2:29 PM

Oh now I feel guilty for not supporting ” the children ” .

Lucano on January 14, 2012 at 2:33 PM

if they fell short 130 million it turns into $260 million. thats because you know the legislature budgeted based on getting that $130 million. as is typical they counted their chickens before the eggs were hatched.

chasdal on January 14, 2012 at 2:34 PM

They tried to push an increase here, but jindal stood his ground opposed the measure loudly enough that it got media coverage, and failed . We also are under Civil Law here and cannot pass taxes without the people voting on it. Not for lack of trying ,I might add. You will see proposals on elections that fall under the radar,during summer months,trying to get them passed when no one turns out.

LSUMama on January 14, 2012 at 2:34 PM

There is no historical correlation between tax rates and revenue to the government as a percentage of GDP. You can change the rates all you want but people will always find a way around unnecessary expenditure.

Historically tax rates vary, but revenue remains markedly flat.

See Chart 4.

“Chart 4 also shows income tax collections as a percentage of GDP. As is the case with total tax revenues, income tax collections are remarkably stable, hovering around 9 percent of GDP. It also is worth noting that the economy slumped during the three years in which income tax revenues climbed above that level: in 1969, 1981, and 2000.”

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on January 14, 2012 at 2:38 PM

they counted their chickens before the eggs were hatched.

chasdal on January 14, 2012 at 2:34 PM

They counted their chickens before they even got the chickens to lay the eggs which would then hatch in the first place.

thelarryd on January 14, 2012 at 2:46 PM

They counted their chickens before they even got the chickens to lay the eggs which would then hatch in the first place.

Actually, they killed the chickens and are wondering when the eggs will arrive.

Dack Thrombosis on January 14, 2012 at 2:50 PM

New York’s cigarette tax jihad has been a boon for smugglers, and it’s much safer than dealing drugs. NYPD even had to set up a special unit just for tobacco smuggling. New York State tax is $4.35 a pack and even higher in New York City. In Virginia for example, it’s 30 cents. So smuggling a hundred cartons of cigarettes results in a gross savings of over $8,000. Load up a U-Haul truck and you’re talking serious cash.

RadClown on January 14, 2012 at 2:52 PM

I’ve thought about doing the same with perscription drugs. What we pay in the U.S. is insane compared to what they cost in Mexico and Canada. I’ve spoken to several seniors that pay upwards of $700.00 a month for drugs that would cost less than a $100.00 from just south of the border. But we have Bush to thank for that.

mtucker5695 on January 14, 2012 at 1:49 PM

it is very sad that most people labor under such ignorance. Of course, given our left-wing press that wants to live like the French, it is understandable

http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/chemicals/drugpricingstudy.pdf

here’s a highly detailed study of the international pharma industry.

Bear in mind that EU et al. is socialist. What do socialist do best? Fix Prices.

Ok, the US is the bread basket of pharma…other countries fix prices that do not allow for R&D. So the US has to pick up all the R&D costs.

Now, if you are a leftist…the answer is to fir prices in the US. Thus we’ll have NO R&D…and NO NEW DRUGS.

If you are a leftist, you’ll say..fine, we have too many drugs anyway, and way too much profit. WE don’t need no stinkin new drugs.

Leftists tend to be rather short cited, stupid, bigoted people who have no vision…except to command and control everyone in the country

r keller on January 14, 2012 at 2:53 PM

I love it when liberals have to suffer through their own liberal policies! Some people will never learn and some refuse to learn. That’s progressive liberalism for you.

ultracon on January 14, 2012 at 2:59 PM

Speaking of Mommy Bloomberg, here’s his latest bit of fascistic self-righteousness:

GREEN BAY, Wis. — Nanny Bloomberg’s battle against demon booze is even affecting his Super Bowl bet with the mayor of the Packers’ hometown.

In a fit of hooch hatred, Hizzoner has asked Green Bay Mayor James Schmitt to take bottles of ice wine out of their intercity pregame bet and replace the libations with harmless soft drinks.

“We have Frozen Tundra wine that we were going to put up, but the [Big Apple’s] mayor didn’t want alcohol in the bet,” Schmitt told The Post yesterday. “So we went with [Green Bay-made] Titletown root beer.”

RadClown on January 14, 2012 at 3:02 PM

TeaPartyNation on January 14, 2012 at 2:19 PM

I escaped from NY after living there all my life just this August to sunny Sarasota. I was fortunate enough to have my father already living here so it was much easier. I can not beleive how much better I feel for doing this. I had a very good job/ salary and still could not make ends meet. I still love NY for its beautiful beaches and mountains but the city itself lost its luster for me after 9/11 and the years it has taken to rebuild what was lost. The final straw was seeing the occupoopers squatting on what I feel is hallowed ground next to the WTC and the mosque situation. Nanny Bloomberg is a pandering pos who should never have gotten a third term. The corruption is as deep as it is in chi town and NY’ers will never learn.

FLconservative on January 14, 2012 at 3:02 PM

Sweetie, I didn’t make you live in the Big Apple!

upinak on January 14, 2012 at 1:48 PM

I live in Syracuse, NY. and I was thinking of Cuomo. You do realize there`s a giant land mass above NYC that`s called New York State. :-P

ThePrez on January 14, 2012 at 1:53 PM

When I say I was born in NY, I have NEVER had anyone say Buffalo….are you SURE there is more to NY than NYC? : ))))))

herm2416 on January 14, 2012 at 3:02 PM

with harmless soft drinks

Aren’t soft drinks instant death in a can?

Dack Thrombosis on January 14, 2012 at 3:03 PM

Didn’t Romney say we can regulate ourselves to prosperity in the first debate in New Hampshire? I think he did. So, I wonder how he feels about taxing ourselves into prosperity. Considering that he created or raised more than $500M in Massachusetts, and he claims that he made the state more prosperous (no real evidence of such prosperity exists), I am tending to think it is time for flop…

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 3:04 PM


Winston Churchill:

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.”

“We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.”

TeaPartyNation on January 14, 2012 at 2:20 PM

Guess whose bust Obozo banished from the oval office.

FOWG1 on January 14, 2012 at 3:09 PM

People will leave the state, you say? Why, this calls for a permit to leave the state tax…
/

ghostwalker1 on January 14, 2012 at 3:16 PM

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 3:14 PM

So? Looks like the Texas Governor can’t keep the unemployment rate down with all those illegals he is recruiting, putting real Texans out of work.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 3:17 PM

desperation on a sinking ship.

please its for the children/s

MrMoe on January 14, 2012 at 3:22 PM

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 3:14 PM

So? Looks like the Texas Governor can’t keep the unemployment rate down with all those illegals he is recruiting, putting real Texans out of work.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 3:17 PM

I agree with you. But you are arguing that Massachusetts is doing pretty well because it’s unemployment number went down. That is a reflection of the fact that there are just simply fewer people looking for work. The number of people working in Massachusetts is almost exactly the number that were working there in 1990. All of Mitts work did absolutely nothing for improving the state. That should have been known well before he started the work, as progressive policies never work, they just are packaged as more populist friendly. For all the arguments against Newt for making a statement that you all erroneously conflate with an attack on capitalism, Romney instituted anti-capitalist laws and regulations. He thinks that housing is an inalienable right, he thinks that regulations improve business outcomes and he thinks the way to determine prosperity is in looking at one and only one metric, profit. I guess that is why he backed the wall street bailouts. All those bailouts became pure profit on the sheets of all those businesses bailed out.

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 3:28 PM

People will leave the state, you say? Why, this calls for a permit to leave the state tax…
/

ghostwalker1 on January 14, 2012 at 3:16 PM

Places like Bahrain and Saudi have this. I know. I paid it. Do we want to be like them? I agree with you, we surely do not.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on January 14, 2012 at 3:34 PM

I know of people that “smuggle” cigs from NH every other week, and the only profit they take is the cost of the carton rounded to the next highest $, like the price is right. They don’t do it for profit they do it to keep their friends that smoke from going broke.

cobrakai99 on January 14, 2012 at 3:37 PM

it is very sad that most people labor under such ignorance. Of course, given our left-wing press that wants to live like the French, it is understandable

http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/chemicals/drugpricingstudy.pdf

here’s a highly detailed study of the international pharma industry.

Bear in mind that EU et al. is socialist. What do socialist do best? Fix Prices.

Ok, the US is the bread basket of pharma…other countries fix prices that do not allow for R&D. So the US has to pick up all the R&D costs.

Now, if you are a leftist…the answer is to fir prices in the US. Thus we’ll have NO R&D…and NO NEW DRUGS.

If you are a leftist, you’ll say..fine, we have too many drugs anyway, and way too much profit. WE don’t need no stinkin new drugs.

Leftists tend to be rather short cited, stupid, bigoted people who have no vision…except to command and control everyone in the country

r keller on January 14, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Let me get your response straight. Especially as I’ve never been accused of being a lefty before.

You bash me as a lefty burdened with left wing press influences. Then you provide a link to a 125 page study about the cost of drugs and R&D. I’ll assume this is your straw-man set up.

Next you make an argument about the U.S. being the bread basket of pharma and how fixed cost drive pharma out of foriegn countries. Great. I get that and I have no beef with it so to speak. Probably because I’m a conservative and not a lefty as you claim.

You continue with some rant about socialism and the EU and you close with some additional insults and claims that I don’t want new drugs. This is all off target as I don’t think you are aiming at the right victim to make your point.

My comment about Bush, who appears to be your sacred cow, is regarding laws he patitioined congress to pass to block internet trade of pharma products. He did this under pressure from pharma and claimed it was to protect our youth from potentially hazardous drug use. The truth is, senior citizens and even pet owners were ordering drugs online from Canada at a much lower cost than they could get it at the local drug store. By blocking outside competition, pharma can continue to charge excessive prices to the U.S. consumer so that we can subsidize the rest of the world. Bush’s policy protected the pharma profit by safe guarding the very thing you claim to hate. If pharma doesn’t like foreign price fixing, then it doesn’t have to sell to those markets. But it does so precisely because it has a guarantee that those products cannot move freely and therefore they can charge americans whatever the f-ck they want to meet foreign price demands.

I’m not going to link a 125 page report on that as I would never expect anyone to read it and I’m fully aware that others do this only to attempt to bolster their imagined professionalism. Instead I’ll post a short comment on it from the government site:

“The Medicine Equity and Drug Safety Act (MEDS), enacted in 2000, would have allowed prescription drugs manufactured in the United States and exported to certain foreign countries to be re-imported from those countries for sale to American consumers. Supporters of the bill hoped that lower drug pricing in other countries would be passed along to consumers. But former Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson responded by saying that, while he believed strongly in access to affordable drugs, he could not implement the act because it would sacrifice public safety by opening up the closed distribution system in the United States.”

Pardon me for believing in the free market and opposing legistlation that attempts to minipulate it. Regardless of the political party in charge at the time.

mtucker5695 on January 14, 2012 at 3:46 PM

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 3:28 PM

The job market in Massachusetts is pretty good, and the data supports it. The primary taxes are better than some southern states which have worse employment. It is up to the people to draw their own conclusions, but there is little here economically with which to criticize Romney.

The only negative with Massachusetts is the extensive political corruption of the democrats on display in the news each week, and the ignorant plurality of people who keep voting for them.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 4:04 PM

People will leave the state, you say? Why, this calls for a permit to leave the state tax…
/

ghostwalker1 on January 14, 2012 at 3:16 PM

This was actually proposed in California a few years back.

Tax Foundation

August 28, 2008
California Exit Tax Proposal Derided

by Joseph Henchman

Getting a good amount of attention this week is our blog post on a California initiative proposal to raise income taxes on high-income earners, impose a new wealth tax, and seize 55% of assets in an exit tax. We explained in that post why it is poor tax policy and partially unconstitutional.

RadClown on January 14, 2012 at 4:20 PM

ray on January 14, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Having your state’s worker population over a period of 20 years increase by a total of 10% is not pretty good. It is totally stagnant in fact.

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 4:35 PM

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Considering the entire USA has only increased its worker population by around 2% in the last 10 years…

As I stated, the job market and employment rate in MA is good right now. Not sure why you have to keep trying to prove otherwise with non-relevant information.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 4:45 PM

People get the government they deserve. Enjoy New Yorkers!

GarandFan on January 14, 2012 at 4:54 PM

and got.. a big goose egg

Or as us former New Yorkers also say …. “they got bupkis”

skatz51 on January 14, 2012 at 4:54 PM

As I stated, the job market and employment rate in MA is good right now. Not sure why you have to keep trying to prove otherwise with non-relevant information.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 4:45 PM

actually from 1990 to 2011 the number of people working in the USA went from 125 million to 154 million. That is a 23% increase, not a 2% increase. Texas has a 46% increase for the same time frame. This pretty much destroys Perry’s argument that he is the cause since the increase is purely linear. Now, I am not saying it is worse than say Iowa where I grew up, Iowa is just as anemic. But Romney argues he is a job creator, well, it does not show in the numbers from 2003 through 2007. From 2001 through 2012 the total number of employed in Massachusetts has never gone past the peak of 2001.

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 5:01 PM

A Wealth Tax (% of net worth yearly) is not constitutional. In time, as CA’s demographics skews further, and the “need” for $ becomes even more pronounced, the constitution won’t stop CA from imposing a leveling redistributive wealth tax. CA will say they will secede if the feds try to call it unconstitutional. Really, that’s what’s in store. Soon the idea will likely go national, as the specious argument for redistribution is so easy to make. What’s more, in store probably will be direct seizures of biz & property. All this, of course, will destroy the productivity of the country. But that won’t stop it from happening.
So… people, quit our internecine fretting about minor things. If we lose to O this fall, it could mean a leftist Supreme Court… for a generation. This leftist court would condone this outright theft of property.

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” — Benjamin Franklin

anotherJoe on January 14, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Speaking of the definition of insanity, CA elected Jerry Brown, the big spender and union man, for a second term!? And guess what, we’re still broke even with increased taxes.

Massive Deficits

PattyJ on January 14, 2012 at 6:12 PM

“Wow , glad I quit smoaking 4 days ago . It does
give me a lot of pleasure not to pay the damn tax .

Lucano on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM”

Uh sir while it may be good for your helth that you quit smoking, I am afraid the government is spending money based on the expectation you will continue to buy cigaretts….You sir MUST still buy the cigarettes. Have a good day.

DVPTexFla on January 14, 2012 at 6:12 PM

But Romney argues he is a job creator, well, it does not show in the numbers from 2003 through 2007. From 2001 through 2012 the total number of employed in Massachusetts has never gone past the peak of 2001.

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 5:01 PM

My impression is that Romney’s position is that he was a job creator in the private sector, as the government doesn’t create jobs.

talkingpoints on January 14, 2012 at 7:10 PM

hey wait a minute. I thought the reason why liberals wanted to raise taxes on smokes was to help deter people from starting smoking and also help cut back…therefor making everyone’s lives much healthier… you mean they lied and it was not about the welfare of the people? Color me shocked!

watertown on January 14, 2012 at 7:14 PM

My impression is that Romney’s position is that he was a job creator in the private sector, as the government doesn’t create jobs.

talkingpoints on January 14, 2012 at 7:10 PM

My impression is that he is arguing that because he can create jobs (I have not really seen any proof he did in either realm) in the private sector he can do so from the office of president. So, if he really did not create jobs when in office, that seems to make that argument false.

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 7:30 PM

So? Looks like the Texas Governor can’t keep the unemployment rate down with all those illegals he is recruiting, putting real Texans out of work.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Ray – you may want to look at the link again, since it shows an increase in the labor force, not an increase in unemployment.

mnealtx on January 14, 2012 at 8:01 PM

Just an FYI, my income, property and sales taxes are lower in Massachusetts than when I lived in Atlanta Georgia last year. I was shocked.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Are the rates lower or just the amount you pay? A lot of people moved from California to Texas and complained that the property tax rates were double. This was true, but the home they bought here for $150,000 was selling for $500,000 there.

Odysseus on January 15, 2012 at 7:44 AM

A Wealth Tax (% of net worth yearly) is not constitutional. In time, as CA’s demographics skews further, and the “need” for $ becomes even more pronounced, the constitution won’t stop CA from imposing a leveling redistributive wealth tax. CA will say they will secede if the feds try to call it unconstitutional. Really, that’s what’s in store. Soon the idea will likely go national, as the specious argument for redistribution is so easy to make. What’s more, in store probably will be direct seizures of biz & property. All this, of course, will destroy the productivity of the country. But that won’t stop it from happening.

anotherJoe on January 14, 2012 at 5:13 PM

It would be unconstitutional for the feds to tell a state that their tax laws were unconstitutional. The federal government would have to have another amendment to tax wealth and that ain’t happening. Also, let’s remember that most rich Democrats do not have high salaries but do have a high net worth (i.e. John Kerry). Thus, this might actually be the first time a Democrat met a tax he didn’t like.

Odysseus on January 15, 2012 at 7:50 AM

Just an FYI, my income, property and sales taxes are lower in Massachusetts than when I lived in Atlanta Georgia last year. I was shocked.

ray on January 14, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Massachusetts differs from the red states in other ways, too.

Odysseus on January 15, 2012 at 8:24 AM

I keep asking which state will default first? Illinois, California or New York. When one of these states default and claim bankruptcy, e.g., it’s acceptable, then other states will follow. This will cause: worthless or junk state bonds; pensions terminated; state and local service curtailed; and unemployment checks, welfare, and medicaid/medicare funding to cease, all culminating in people dying. All for the good of the party and the re-election of the few. Only after those citizen count the dead will they re-awaken. I just hope and pray this change will not cause anarchy. And they wonder why so many Americans are buying hand guns?

SgtPete on January 15, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Canada tried this about 10 years ago. To reduce smoking and to increase revenue, they raised the tax on cigarettes to the point a carton cost almost $100. Retail cigarette sales fell drastically as a result, and tax revenue declined as well.

And yet since we elected (not me) a Liberal government in Ontario eight years ago, today cigarettes cost close to ten dollars a pack again. It’s estimated that a third of all cigarettes sold today are black market.

The liberals are whining that they are missing out on billions in tax revenue in this province (Ontario) alone. A carton of cigarettes now cost around $80.00 dollars again and the black market cost is around $30.00 a carton.

As has been stated, high taxes do not reduce smoking rates past a certain level. Based on the wholesale cost of a carton of cigarettes being around $4.50 and a retail cost of around $80.00 that’s somewhere in the neighborhood of %7000 tax.

Alcohol is another gotcha in Ontario where we pay at least double and in most cases, it’s triple the amount paid in Michigan or New york. A case of beer (24) in Ontario cost around $40.00, $15.00 in MI and a quart of “Canadian” Whiskey cost around $45.00, $14.00 in MI.

cdn.infidel on January 15, 2012 at 1:11 PM

I was in Salamanca, NY last weekend, driving from Penna on my way to a funeral, and the store that we always stop at was dead empty.

Last time through the parking lot was so full that we barely found a place to park 2 more cars, with many of those cars from PA, looking for cheap smokes.

So, not only did the new tax not garner any higher revenue for the state of NY, but it is killing the business on the reservation as well.

New Yorkers are now driving south to save about $20 per carton on cigarettes.

Siddhartha Vicious on January 15, 2012 at 5:59 PM