Quotes of the day

posted at 9:30 pm on January 14, 2012 by Allahpundit

“Yet the act of desecrating an enemy’s body is as old as war, perhaps most famously described by Homer in ‘The Iliad,’ when Achilles drags Hector’s lifeless body behind his chariot before the eyes of a shocked and despairing Troy. Nancy Sherman, a professor of philosophy at Georgetown University who has written a book about the moral implications of war on troops, ‘The Untold War,’ said dehumanizing the enemy can be a psychological defense mechanism for the troops whose job is to kill that enemy…

“Mr. Exum said black humor is another coping mechanism for young troops trying to act tough beyond their years. ‘I remember being a young officer in Afghanistan in 2002 and standing over the body of this partially decapitated Taliban and cracking jokes,’ he said. ‘Humor is how we cope with pretty horrific stuff. It’s almost dangerous to be too sensitive.’

“Alex Lemons, a Marine scout sniper during the fierce fighting in the Iraqi city of Falluja in 2004, said that on several occasions he encountered American troops who either urinated on insurgent bodies or manipulated them for photographs, like putting them in ridiculous poses. While he called such behavior disgusting, he also said it could be cathartic.

“‘I’ve never spat on a dead body or urinated on one, but I’ve certainly screamed at a dead body because they’ve taken a friend’s life,’ said Mr. Lemons, who left the Marine Corps in 2008.”

***

“But what possible benefit does desecrating enemy corpses serve? — other than to radicalize other terrorists — and to provide our enemies with talking points and propaganda photos? (Oh yeah, it also fosters the notion that America is no different from the rest of the barbaric world — that we are simply about imposing our power, not liberating oppressed people or defending our citizens.)

“In a perfect world, our warriors would operate clinically. Like professionals, they would follow orders, dispassionately removing cancers, never allowing emotion to creep into their decisions. It is understandable, of course, that men — faced with the horrors of war (our enemies are evil people who do horrible things!) — sometimes fall far short of that high standard.

“But this was dancing in the end zone.”

***

“There is a final context for this act in which we are all responsible, all guilty. A 19-year-old Marine has a very hard time reconciling the fact that it’s okay to waterboard a live Taliban fighter but not okay to urinate on a dead one.

“When the war on terror started, the Marines in that video were probably 9 or 10 years old. As children they heard adults — and political leaders — talk about our enemies in the most inhuman terms. The Internet and the news media are filled with self-important men and women referring to our enemies as animals that deserve little legal or moral consideration. We have sent enemy fighters to countries like Syria and Libya to be tortured by the very regimes that we have recently condemned for engaging in war crimes and torture. They have been tortured into confessing their crimes and then locked up indefinitely without trial because their confessions — achieved through torture — will not stand up in court.

“For the past 10 years, American children have absorbed these moral contradictions, and now they are fighting our wars. The video doesn’t surprise me, but it makes me incredibly sad — not just for them, but also for us. We may prosecute these men for desecrating the dead while maintaining that it is okay to torture the living.

“I hope someone else knows how to explain that to our soldiers, because I don’t have the faintest idea.”

***

“Initially there were concerns that outrage over the issue would spiral into a scandal like the one in 2004 over the release of photos showing a group of U.S. military police abusing prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq…

“But Afghan officials and others said the quick responses by all sides had helped contain the damage.

“‘As all three sides — the U.S., the Afghan government and the Taliban — have all condemned this act, I’m hopeful that this will not have any effect on the peace process,’ Abdul Hakim Mujahid, a member of the peace council and the Taliban’s former envoy to the United Nations, said Saturday…

“‘Reconciliation is a big change for the people of Afghanistan and it won’t be affected by the actions of individuals like those in the video,’ Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid told The Associated Press on Friday. ‘We are focused on the bigger picture and for that, we have to avoid small things.’”

***

“‘It’s insane,’ says an Afghan [Taliban] sub-commander in Helmand province where the urination incident allegedly took place last year. ‘Why are we talking to those who hate us so much that they desecrate our martyrs’ bodies?’ he asks angrily in a phone conversation with The Daily Beast. His anger extends to the Taliban’s negotiators in Qatar. ‘To me those who claim to represent the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in these talks are dishonoring the rivers of blood we have shed,’ he says. ‘This act is worse than that of animals,’ adds the sub-commander who declines to be named for security reasons. ‘They showed no shame.’

“Jan Mohammad Khan, a Taliban fighter in eastern Afghanistan, says the video affected him more than all the carnage that he’s seen in his 10 years in the jihad. ‘I have never hurt so much as I did when I saw this video,’ he says. ‘These Americans have crossed the borders of civilization and humanity by disrespecting the dead.’…

“The former translator who lives in Kabul with his family says the video has outraged even his normally calm and moderate father. ‘This morning my father was so angry that he ordered me to burn any money I may still have from the Americans as it was a sin to keep it,’ he says. ‘If this action has so angered my father it will certainly anger other common Afghans.’ If so the already difficult fledgling peace process has just become even more complicated.”

***

***

Via the Daily Caller.


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You sound like an hysterical drunk. Go to bed and read your comments in the am.

katy the mean old lady on January 15, 2012 at 2:32 AM

Speak for yourself. I’m angry. For some reason, it pisses me off when people lie to me or about me. Maybe you don’t care about that sort of thing, after all, you’re mean and old.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:34 AM

wolfva on January 15, 2012 at 2:31 AM

Only Hawk never told anyone to shut up.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:35 AM

I’m not sure what else I can say to you. You started losing your temper when I asked you if I had asked a hard question. I’ve tried to be civil through you telling me to piss off, calling me a liar, calling that young Marine Officer a liar, calling me dense and whatever else. I have tried to be polite.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:30 AM

Because you are rude and a liar. And yes, go p*** off. That’s what I usually say to people who lie about what I say.

Your faux courtesy does not abrogate your lying about me and the fact that you owe me an apology for your calumny against me.

You’re still a self righteous prig and hypocrite.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:36 AM

Only Hawk never told anyone to shut up.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:35 AM

No, he just let his friends do it.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:37 AM

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:35 AM

No, he just let his friends do it.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:37 AM

We’ve already proved my friends did no such thing.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:38 AM

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:30 AM

Do you think you were being polite when you asked me if it was a “hard question” because I was away from my computer folding laundry? Because I was not glued to the screen, looking for a fight like you were?

You are one piece of work. You were rude, hostile and unfit to call yourself a soldier. You continue to employ calumny against me, misconstrue what I wrote and lie about my position.

You should be ashamed of yourself for using tactics that are beneath any decent person.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:40 AM

We’ve already proved my friends did no such thing.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:38 AM

No you didn’t.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:41 AM

dukecitygirl,

I think you will be embarrassed by what you are saying now when you read with a fresh mind. Take a deep breath. Relax.

McDuck on January 15, 2012 at 2:42 AM

dukecitygirl,

I think you will be embarrassed by what you are saying now when you read with a fresh mind. Take a deep breath. Relax.

McDuck on January 15, 2012 at 2:42 AM

Oh go mind your own damned business. Who the hell appointed you judge?

If anyone should be embarassed, it should the lying POS who owes me an apology for his slander against me.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:44 AM

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:44 AM

You have escalated the discourse to this level over me asking you if it was a hard question? There is not a name in the book now that you have not called me.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:49 AM

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:30 AM

You were spoiling for a fight in that thread when I simply wrote my mild opinion in support of Col. West.

You hounded me in a rude, hostile manner. You misconstrued my words and slandered me.

You wanted a fight. And you’re going to have one.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:50 AM

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:44 AM

You have got some serious issues.

SparkPlug on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

You have escalated the discourse to this level over me asking you if it was a hard question?

You were spoiling for a fight. You were rude. Now you whine that you have a fight?

There is not a name in the book now that you have not called me.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:49 AM

And you deserve every single one of them.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

West was referring to the faux outrage of the lefties over this. I felt like telling them to shut up too.

I said I FELT LIKE telling them to shut up. That’s in mild terms! And you blew this out of proportion and slandered me by stating that I want to tell EVERYONE to shut up!

I detest self righteous prigs like you who lie and distort other people’s words! You are the worst kind of person – lying about someone else!

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:18 AM

You see, this is what I don’t quite get. I don’t think West was literally telling people they had no right to say anything. “Shut up” if usually more a figure of speech than an attempt to silence someone. That’s especially true in context, which to me was, “how can you condemn these men while ignoring the far worse things done by the Taliban, when you’ve never been in their shoes in combat?”

If I really thought that West was saying people who had never been in combat had no right to an opinion on this subject, then I’d have to disagree with West. But I didn’t see it that way, and don’t really understand how it gets taken that way. He was clearly shaming those who want to make this incident all about how out-of-control the military is.

In fact, I think West’s statement was about as close to pitch-perfect as you can get. If he’d found a better way to dismiss the over-the-top criticism from the left instead of using the words “shut up,” then it really would have been pitch-perfect.

Hawkdriver, on the other hand, took the “shut up” more literally. I think this is a mistake, but at least I understand the point.

Hawkdriver, your first question to dukecitygirl was whether she was being prevented from giving her opinion. That probably came across as more … hostile .. than intended, if I was understanding you right.

It looks to me like you’re mostly in agreement. If I’m understating the disagreement, then I apologize.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:44 AM

Breathtakingly ignorant.

I’ve read through your posts. You hostility towards Hawkdriver is like that of a Taliban woman, or rather goat.

Your attacks reveal yourself as a liberal troll trying to gain confidence in this group. Shouldn’t you be better off posting at the Huffington-Puffington site? You sound like the rest of the left wing loons that hang that and spit in the face of freedom.

You foul the Air here in this site.

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

You have got some serious issues.

SparkPlug on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

Damned right I do. With liars who spoil for a fight.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:52 AM

Do you think you were being polite when you asked me if it was a “hard question” because I was away from my computer folding laundry? Because I was not glued to the screen, looking for a fight like you were?

I wasn’t looking for a fight. I actually thought by your comments from before, which were much more reasonable it seemed, you might actually see my point pretty quickly that it was unfair for you to assert others didn’t have room for an opinion as you were very much, expressing yours at the time.

You are one piece of work. You were rude, hostile and unfit to call yourself a soldier. You continue to employ calumny against me, misconstrue what I wrote and lie about my position.

I wasn’t a soldier. I was an Officer.

You should be ashamed of yourself for using tactics that are beneath any decent person.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:40 AM

I’m sorry, but I don’t feel ashamed for anything I said on either thread.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:53 AM

We were in the middle of talks with the Taliban. Now they have to reciprocate or their leadership loses face. You might not care about the act, but the impact could be massive.

blankminde on January 15, 2012 at 2:19 AM

If any and all “talks” with the Taliban break down, I’m all for it. I hope they break down so fully that we leave Operation Enduring Insanity yesterday.

RasThavas on January 15, 2012 at 2:53 AM

Piss on these animals. I hope they and their ilk drown in it.

pat on January 15, 2012 at 2:53 AM

You sound like an hysterical drunk. Go to bed and read your comments in the am.

katy the mean old lady on January 15, 2012 at 2:32 AM

Speak for yourself. I’m angry. For some reason, it pisses me off when people lie to me or about me. Maybe you don’t care about that sort of thing, after all, you’re mean and old.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:34 AM

dukecitygirl,

I think you will be embarrassed by what you are saying now when you read with a fresh mind. Take a deep breath. Relax.

McDuck on January 15, 2012 at 2:42 AM

Oh go mind your own damned business. Who the hell appointed you judge?

If anyone should be embarassed, it should the lying POS who owes me an apology for his slander against me.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:44 AM

Young lady, and yes I’m calling you young, because I can’t imagine anyone with your temperament to be anything but young. I understand from reading your comments that you feel very emotional about this issue, that you are worried about your family members who are serving in that hell-hole, and that you feel your integrity has been besmirched by some of the commenters here, but you may want to take Katy and McDuck’s advice.

Because I can’t see you being able to retain your posting privileges here much longer if you continue down the path of discourse you have chosen tonight. Or perhaps you didn’t read the Terms of Use before registering. By my count you’ve already abused at least 6 of them just within the past hour.

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 2:53 AM

SparkPlug on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

Damned right I do. With liars who spoil for a fight.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:52 AM

Please tell me what I can do to make you more angry you howling chimp.

SparkPlug on January 15, 2012 at 2:56 AM

tom on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

Thank you!

You are the first person who gets it. Not only was he hostile in his questioning, but when I didn’t answer immediately (because I walked away from my computer to get laundry from the dryer and fold it), he increased his hostile tone and asked me if it was a “hard question”.

And do you see what he’s doing? He continues to slander my position by falsely stating that I want to “silence” all people (like he does to West), and then takes on this meek, polite tone in this thread to get his buddies to pile on against me.

I hate people like that. Sneaky. No honor.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:57 AM

Damned right I do. With liars who spoil for a fight.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:52 AM

Was that your sole purpose here? To start a fight?

You’ve gained a reputation you have.

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 2:57 AM

You foul the Air here in this site.

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

Not as badly as those who use calumny against me and pretend that they’re the victim here.

You are an unjust person. You know nothing of what has transpired yet you accuse me of wrong doing?

You had the gall to tell me I had no right to speak my opinion in an earlier comment. That makes you a fascist.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:59 AM

Damned right I do. With liars who spoil for a fight.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:52 AM

I didn’t lie about anything and I didn’t spoil for a fight. I just asked if you were allowed to express your opinion about the war.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:00 AM

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 2:53 AM

Did you read the entire thread? And the other one about Col. West and how that person attacked me? He continued to lie about my position in this thread by misconstruing my words.

Tom has it right.

I understand what you’re saying and I appreciate your kindly tone, but I have a right to be angry about this.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM

I wasn’t a soldier. I was an Officer.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 2:53 AM

American Soldier

RasThavas on January 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM

tom on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

Tom, post the hostile comment for me. Duke can’t say which one it was and I’m not sure which one you’re talking about.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM

SparkPlug on January 15, 2012 at 2:56 AM

Your name reflects your IQ. I get it.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM

American Soldier

RasThavas on January 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM

Great guy. I actually flew for him for about five months.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:02 AM

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Were you just allowed to express your opinion about war?

hawkdriver on January 14, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Tom, Duke. This is my comment. How is this hostile?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:04 AM

I didn’t lie about anything and I didn’t spoil for a fight. I just asked if you were allowed to express your opinion about the war.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:00 AM

You were spoiling for a fight. You started attacking me for simply stating support for Col. West and expressing the same frustration and contempt for the faux outrage of the left. That’s who I was targeting. Instead, you claimed that I meant for EVERYONE to shut up about it, which is patently false.

And you continue to do it on this thread. You should be ashamed of yourself for making false statements about me and what I said. That is what pisses me off. And your nasty buddies here are no better.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:04 AM

I hate people like that. Sneaky. No honor.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:57 AM

Hawkdriver was very civil to you.

You are vile and accusing. You are a troll with a chip on your shoulder looking for a fight. You’ve pick the wrong group to do that in.

Listen to Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 2:53 AM
Because you could have clarified your comments without being hostile. It’s easy to misconstrue what people are saying if you do not ask for clarity, without hostility. But you didn’t do that, you came out swinging for a fight. As you just said.

You have the right to disagree, but you do not have the right to challenge those who have first hand knowledge of what being in was is like. Have you worn the uniform of the Military? ANSWER IT!

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:04 AM

I thought this was hostile.

She’s a media queen, dontcha know?

I rolled my eyes when I read it too.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:28 AM

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:05 AM

Maybe you don’t care about that sort of thing, after all, you’re mean and old.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:34 AM

Who told you that? OK, which one of you wisenheimers ratted me out?
What?
Oh.
Seriously. I woke up for a pizz call and read the thread. You keep telling people to STFU because you think they told you the same?
Weird.
You are going to be embarrassed tomorrow.

katy the mean old lady on January 15, 2012 at 3:06 AM

Yikes, I read the entire thread between Dr. Tesla and the other commenters.

I think Dr. Tesla is arrogant and his nitpicking on Allen West’s comment is disingenuous. West was referring to the faux outrage of the lefties over this. I felt like telling them to shut up too.

No, I wasn’t going to judge them for this, though whoever taped it was an idiot for letting it go viral. I do know this: if I went through what many soldiers do in war (and yes, what little I know is from film and books), I’d probably have done the exact same thing.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:35 AM

This was a bit hostile.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:07 AM

You are an unjust person. You know nothing of what has transpired yet you accuse me of wrong doing?

You had the gall to tell me I had no right to speak my opinion in an earlier comment. That makes you a fascist.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:59 AM

Obviously we are dealing with a highly disturbed individual here.

There is medication for your aliment. Please get the help you need.

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:07 AM

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:05 AM

And how about posting my explanation for that comment? Another wilfull misconstruing by taking it out of context.

So, you really were spoiling for a fight because I criticized the author of that post (among many, many other people) because she used politically correct, leftist language.

Thanks for proving me right. You were hostile. You were looking for a fight. Because after that is when you started in on me.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:08 AM

Not at all. I was folding laundry.

Yes I was able to express my opinion about war. I don’t know why you’re being so rude about it, though.

For a soldier boy, you seem kind of sensitive.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 12:52 PM

This wasn’t hostile but a bit rude.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:08 AM

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM

I’ll give you banana if you promise to get chimpy.

SparkPlug on January 15, 2012 at 3:08 AM

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:07 AM

I thought I told you to go sit in the car.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:08 AM

tom on January 15, 2012 at 2:51 AM

Thank you!

You are the first person who gets it. Not only was he hostile in his questioning, but when I didn’t answer immediately (because I walked away from my computer to get laundry from the dryer and fold it), he increased his hostile tone and asked me if it was a “hard question”.

And do you see what he’s doing? He continues to slander my position by falsely stating that I want to “silence” all people (like he does to West), and then takes on this meek, polite tone in this thread to get his buddies to pile on against me.

I hate people like that. Sneaky. No honor.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:57 AM

I honestly don’t think he intended it that way. Hawkdriver generally tries to be fair. I think it just came across wrong when he was arguing that everyone has the right to have and express an opinion.

But, as you say, you weren’t really in favor of silencing people with contrary opinions anyway.

Neither am I. Discipline must be upheld, and I understand that, as does West, but I really have no patience for the Taliban acting outraged about these Marines when they have done so much worse.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:09 AM

Nope. Just converse in a civil manner. You were hostile.

So, p*** off.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 1:21 PM

This is hostile. But you claimed .. I was so …

I guess you’re justified to be?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:10 AM

This wasn’t hostile but a bit rude.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:08 AM

In response to your initial rudeness.

Face it. You started it. Tom read the thread and he agreed that you were rude in your tone to me after I simply stated support for Allen West’s comment and support for the Marines who pissed in the video because who knows what they went through before the video in the fight.

I couldn’t believe what I was reading when you started in on me. Here I was, supporting Col. West and those soldiers and you started to attack me for it.

If anyone should be accused of being a lefty troll here, it should have been you.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:12 AM

I thought I told you to go sit in the car.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:08 AM

Have you been in the military? Worn the uniform?

Answer it.

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:12 AM

Obviously we are dealing with a highly disturbed individual here.

There is medication for your aliment. Please get the help you need.

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:07 AM

Clearly you know little about highly disturbed individuals. You obviously did not attend that party at the White House back in October of 2009.

Cheshire Cat on January 15, 2012 at 3:14 AM

katy the mean old lady on January 15, 2012 at 3:06 AM

Sometimes, you just can’t talk them down off that ledge.

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 3:14 AM

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:50 AM

Wow. I wonder if you realize how absolutely ridiculous and full of yourself you sound???

KMC1 on January 15, 2012 at 3:14 AM

Some days it just doesn’t pay to get out of bed. Today has been one of them.

Cheshire Cat on January 15, 2012 at 3:15 AM

You sound like an hysterical drunk. Go to bed and read your comments in the am.

katy the mean old lady on January 15, 2012 at 2:32 AM
Speak for yourself. I’m angry. For some reason, it pisses me off when people lie to me or about me. Maybe you don’t care about that sort of thing, after all, you’re mean and old.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:34 AM

Well shit,…. can I be on your enemies list too?.. seems so many good people are on it now..

I don’t give a rip about whatever bug crawled up your ass Missy, but you’ve acted all of exactly 12 on nearly this entire thread.. You’ve accused people of lies, yet never posted the qoutes that I’ve seen which would support that claim.. Hawk has always been a gentlemen on the years I’ve read here as a lurker, never failing to be civil, even when under extreme provacation, like your repeated rants.. you sound like my little girl when she’s having a tantrum..

so.. pretty please,.. can you hate me too?

I don’t have an issue with Colonel West, but I deeply respect Hawk,.. and have you even considered the absurdity of saying he’s acting all polite and stuff NOW, that his friends are here….

Where the Hell did you think we hid to miss his supposed crime?.. and do you really think anyone could wear two faces here and not be caught ast it?.. was there a special time all his friends signed on so he could put on his GOOD face?..

and do we all sign off together so he can take it back off?

That’s the oddest accusation of all.. like we can’t see his words when he supposedly doesn’t want us to…

You need a nap Missy.. you’re not being rational..

mark81150 on January 15, 2012 at 3:15 AM

But, as you say, you weren’t really in favor of silencing people with contrary opinions anyway.

Neither am I. Discipline must be upheld, and I understand that, as does West, but I really have no patience for the Taliban acting outraged about these Marines when they have done so much worse.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:09 AM

Of course I’m not in favor of that, but that person keeps on insisting that I am. Nothing is more infuriating that having a person lie about you to the world. Billy Budd, and all that.

And I’m sorry, but he is not fair. He continues to misconstrue my words and position. Notice that he’s pasting my comments and claiming I was rude (and I was) but only AFTER he started it! And he also omitted what he wrote.

It seems like a cowardly thing to do: to attack a person and then act all surprised and wounded if they hit you back? Isn’t that stupid?

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:15 AM

Clearly you know little about highly disturbed individuals. You obviously did not attend that party at the White House back in October of 2009.

Cheshire Cat on January 15, 2012 at 3:14 AM

My dog ate the invitation! :)

Common dukecitygirl – own up. Do you wear combat boots?

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:17 AM

mark81150 on January 15, 2012 at 3:15 AM

Did you actually go back and read the other thread where he started fighting with me for no good reason? Tom did and he sees why I’m angry and believes that he was rude to me.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:18 AM

lourdescsdevenrant without the fun parts?

katy the mean old lady on January 15, 2012 at 3:19 AM

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Were you just allowed to express your opinion about war?

hawkdriver on January 14, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Tom, Duke. This is my comment. How is this hostile?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:04 AM

That’s the one. Thanks for posting it.

Obviously, it was not overtly hostile. But as the very first comment to dukecitygirl, it did come across a little like a demand to justify herself.

I think you have a reputation for civility, and had no ill-intent, so it probably never occurred to you that it could be taken as demanding.

But this is the internet. How you meant it isn’t always the same as how it’s taken.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:19 AM

Yikes, I read the entire thread between Dr. Tesla and the other commenters.

I think Dr. Tesla is arrogant and his nitpicking on Allen West’s comment is disingenuous. West was referring to the faux outrage of the lefties over this. I felt like telling them to shut up too.

No, I wasn’t going to judge them for this, though whoever taped it was an idiot for letting it go viral. I do know this: if I went through what many soldiers do in war (and yes, what little I know is from film and books), I’d probably have done the exact same thing.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:35 AM

This was a bit hostile.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:07 AM

More calumny.

If you think that is “hostile” I can’t believe you’ve ever been in a war. What a pantywaist you must be.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:19 AM

lourdescsdevenrant without the fun parts?

katy the mean old lady on January 15, 2012 at 3:19 AM

Where’s the steak? And granny’s cookies? And can it last for 17 hours?

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 3:22 AM

But as the very first comment to dukecitygirl, it did come across a little like a demand to justify herself.

I think you have a reputation for civility, and had no ill-intent, so it probably never occurred to you that it could be taken as demanding.

But this is the internet. How you meant it isn’t always the same as how it’s taken.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:19 AM

And Tom, don’t forget, when I didn’t answer him right away (because I got up to go to the dryer to get the clothes out) he immediately wrote: “Hard question?”

Here I am, new to posting and simply stating support for Col. West and the marines, and this guy I don’t know comes up to me and starts to rudely interrogate me and acts hostile because I didn’t answer him right away.

And then he’s surprised when I hit him back?

Only bullies are surprised if someone smacks them back when starting aggression.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:22 AM

Some people are dense. He was being rhetorical. Just like when someone tells an annoying jerk to shut up or p*** off.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 1:36 PM

I threw the “media queen” term because she accused Sarah Palin of being one without providing an iota of evidence. It was pure cattiness on her part, not to mention unprofessional.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 2:39 PM

Because you are rude and a liar. And yes, go p*** off. That’s what I usually say to people who lie about what I say.

Your faux courtesy does not abrogate your lying about me and the fact that you owe me an apology for your calumny against me.

You’re still a self righteous prig and hypocrite.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:36 AM

I’m done with your intellectual dishonesty.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:46 PM

I

t’s not helping bring about peace, but only emboldening the radicals.

AZfederalist on January 14, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Hear, hear.

We should go medieval on them.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:55 PM

I

don’t give a rat’s a** if it kills their civilians. If it would protect my father or my sister or my cousin, I would gladly see thousands of Afghan or Iraqi citizens die.

I don’t care.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 1:46 AM

You are one piece of work. You were rude, hostile and unfit to call yourself a soldier. You continue to employ calumny against me, misconstrue what I wrote and lie about my position.

You should be ashamed of yourself for using tactics that are beneath any decent person.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:40 AM

There’s so much more but I’m getting a little tired.

Tom, did you consider these comments when you thought Duke and I were saying the same thing, basically?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:23 AM

What a pantywaist you must be.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:19 AM

You have stepped over the line missy. You want a war? You Got It!

Again, answer the question. Were you ever in the military?

You cannot answer, because your ignorance is shinning the light on who you are. An angry evil troll.

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:24 AM

Here I am, new to posting and simply stating support for Col. West and the marines, and this guy I don’t know comes up to me and starts to rudely interrogate me and acts hostile because I didn’t answer him right away.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:22 AM

Feigning innocence isn’t going to help you.

Your comments are laced with hate speak.
In your own words, you were looking for a fight.

ANSWER THE QUESTION: WERE YOU EVER IN THE MILITARY?

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:27 AM

mark81150 on January 15, 2012 at 3:15 AM

Did you actually go back and read the other thread where he started fighting with me for no good reason? Tom did and he sees why I’m angry and believes that he was rude to me.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:18 AM

For the record, I don’t think that Hawkdriver meant to be rude with the comment.

But I also don’t think that West was really trying to silence his opposition. Or that dukecitygirl was arguing for it.

Reasonable people can disagree.

/I can’t go to bed now! Someone on the internet is wrong!!

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

Tom, there is no hostility whatsoever in that thread question. Do you think that question warrants the tirade she’s been on since?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

Tom, did you consider these comments when you thought Duke and I were saying the same thing, basically?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:23 AM

You deserved every single one of them.

You walked up to me, never met me before and started a fight in another thread.

And not only did you start the fight, but you CONTINUED to LIE about my position. Re-read Tom’s initial comment when he said that you were mistaken in your intepretation of Col. West’s comment and mine.

I already explained to you my position, but instead of saying, Oh, ok, I see what you mean, you CONTINUED to assert the erroneous one you initially thought. That’s not only rude, but downright vicious.

To continue to make false allegations about a person’s thoughts or position on something after that person explained it is simply unacceptable.

This is why I have continued this fight with you and won’t let it go. It’s a point of honor. You owe me an apology for your misrepresentation about me and your CONTINUATION in doing so.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

But I also don’t think that West was really trying to silence his opposition. Or that dukecitygirl was arguing for it.

Reasonable people can disagree.

/I can’t go to bed now! Someone on the internet is wrong!!

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

Thanks Tom, for seeing the truth of the matter and being just.

I already brought up the point that Col. West did not author a bill to silence the left on this matter and he did not sponsor a resolution to silence them either. But that point was entirely ignored by that person and he continued to misrepresent me and West.

To do so is vicious.

Good night and thank you for being fair about this instead of making snap judgments.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:31 AM

/I can’t go to bed now! Someone on the internet is wrong!!

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

That’s one of my very favorites. I love the stick figure cartoon that goes with it. :)

Flotsam Jetsome on January 15, 2012 at 3:32 AM

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:22 AM

You are way out of line. And, you sound ridiculous.

You sound like some self-righteous spoiled brat, who honestly believes she is “better than” other people.

Take a chill. Relax. And apologize for the maligning Hawkdriver’s honor and masculinity, both of which are not in question on tbis board, while conversely your judgement is, NOW.

KMC1 on January 15, 2012 at 3:32 AM

This is why I have continued this fight with you and won’t let it go. It’s a point of honor. You owe me an apology for your misrepresentation about me and your CONTINUATION in doing so.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

Backed yourself into a corner I see.

Now you want an apology for your vile spew? Are you kidding?
You went out of your way to pick a fight with Hawkdriver.

You are ignoring my question. WHY? I ask knowingly.

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:33 AM

This hotgas has turned into a complete mad house.

Cheshire Cat on January 15, 2012 at 3:34 AM

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

I asked you one question. There wasn’t a drop of hostility in it.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:34 AM

This hotgas has turned into a complete mad house.

Cheshire Cat on January 15, 2012 at 3:34 AM

Not quite planet of the apes yet baby

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:37 AM

mark81150 on January 15, 2012 at 3:15 AM
Did you actually go back and read the other thread where he started fighting with me for no good reason? Tom did and he sees why I’m angry and believes that he was rude to me.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:18 AM

So you’ve repeatedly stalked him and insulted him on this thread.. because of what he said on the other one? Which was just reposted here.. you think that was “rude”?

enough to justify this rambling rolling trainwreck of a thread?

Now you’re escalating, so trying to bait him into blowing up at you, you can see it through 50 yards of fog,.. You said this,

More calumny.

If you think that is “hostile” I can’t believe you’ve ever been in a war. What a pantywaist you must be.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:19 AM

Ok then,.. a guy who flew hundreds if not thousands of missions into hot zones, where death was as close as a shoulder fired rocket, is a “pantywaist” to you, because he won’t apologize, grovel, and commit hara kiri because of a comment basically asking a question… which you have taken into such a fit of rage, you’re thread stalking him over it?

I sweet Jesus hope to God you aren’t married.. the guy would have post traumatic stress over saying good morning to you, if you had a bad day.

Let it go,.. you aren’t making yourself any friends.. and have taken a noob like me quickly into, the ignore all future comments from her column, and I never knew of you before this.

Hawk,.. You have the patience of Job…

mark81150 on January 15, 2012 at 3:38 AM

I asked you one question. There wasn’t a drop of hostility in it.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:34 AM

Even Tom said it came across as “demanding”, especially since this was the first time you ever spoke to me. It came across as bullying, especially your second comment “Hard question?” after I didn’t answer right away simply because I got up to do something and stepped away from the computer. You were spoiling for a fight in your tone.

But what’s even worse is how you continued to misrepresent my statement. You ignored my explanation in that thread and in this one you continued to lie about it, after I expanded on it.

Yes, it angered me and still does. I have no respect for people who do things like that.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:38 AM

Here I am, new to posting and simply stating support for Col. West and the marines, and this guy I don’t know comes up to me and starts to rudely interrogate me…

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:22 AM

You walked up to me, never met me before and started a fight in another thread.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

Sweetie, you do realize you’re on the internet, don’t you?

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 3:40 AM

mark81150 on January 15, 2012 at 3:38 AM

Didn’t you read what I wrote?

He continues to misrepresent my statement and meaning, even after I explained it.

How would you feel if someone did that to you, even after you explained it to them? Wouldn’t you feel that the person is being dishonest? And don’t you hate it when people lie about you?

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:41 AM

Hawk,.. You have the patience of Job…

mark81150 on January 15, 2012 at 3:38 AM

I guess I’m just really trying to see the point of what she’s talking about. But you’ve made some excellent comments here too.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:42 AM

Sweetie, you do realize you’re on the internet, don’t you?

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 3:40 AM

Of course I do. I’m speaking metaphorically, not literally. Don’t you know what rhetoric is?

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:42 AM

Yes, it angered me and still does. I have no respect for people who do things like that.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:38 AM

Everyone is against you, aren’t they?

Just unfair, isn’t it?

Just an angry, angry, bird!

Tsk tsk tsk….

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:42 AM

Some people are dense. He was being rhetorical. Just like when someone tells an annoying jerk to shut up or p*** off.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 1:36 PM

I threw the “media queen” term because she accused Sarah Palin of being one without providing an iota of evidence. It was pure cattiness on her part, not to mention unprofessional.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 2:39 PM

Because you are rude and a liar. And yes, go p*** off. That’s what I usually say to people who lie about what I say.

Your faux courtesy does not abrogate your lying about me and the fact that you owe me an apology for your calumny against me.

You’re still a self righteous prig and hypocrite.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:36 AM

I’m done with your intellectual dishonesty.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:46 PM

It’s not helping bring about peace, but only emboldening the radicals.

AZfederalist on January 14, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Hear, hear.

We should go medieval on them.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:55 PM

I don’t give a rat’s a** if it kills their civilians. If it would protect my father or my sister or my cousin, I would gladly see thousands of Afghan or Iraqi citizens die.

I don’t care.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 1:46 AM

You are one piece of work. You were rude, hostile and unfit to call yourself a soldier. You continue to employ calumny against me, misconstrue what I wrote and lie about my position.

You should be ashamed of yourself for using tactics that are beneath any decent person.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:40 AM

There’s so much more but I’m getting a little tired.

Tom, did you consider these comments when you thought Duke and I were saying the same thing, basically?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:23 AM

You’re making me work way too hard.

But these comments are from much later in the discussion all-out range war. When I thought you were mostly in agreement — with the exception of your interpretation of West’s “shut up” comment — was before all that.

Ultimately, you and dukecitygirl will have to work out the details, or, failing that, the resulting cold war. I’m just saying that someone who doesn’t know you might well have assumed a hostile tone. And then assumed your more polite posts were insincere.

Based on my observation, I don’t really think so. But I can only go by my observations.

BTW, the “media queen” was directed at Tina Korbe for her statement that she liked Palin better when she wasn’t acting as a “media queen,” whatever that is. It’s not like dukecitygirl was the only commenter who objected to the term. I thought it was poorly chosen myself when Tina Korbe used the term.

Anyway, I’ve seen worse. Pretty routinely.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:43 AM

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 3:40 AM

LOL….right?!?

KMC1 on January 15, 2012 at 3:45 AM

BTW, the “media queen” was directed at Tina Korbe for her statement that she liked Palin better when she wasn’t acting as a “media queen,” whatever that is. It’s not like dukecitygirl was the only commenter who objected to the term. I thought it was poorly chosen myself when Tina Korbe used the term.

Anyway, I’ve seen worse. Pretty routinely.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:43 AM

Yes, there’s some hypocrisy in his saying I was being “rude” but he ignored the 20 some other commenters who expressed the same “rudeness” as I did.

Why did he single me out? Why didn’t he go after any of the many people who said the same thing I did?

For some strange reason, he went after me.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:46 AM

Duty Calls.

Flotsam Jetsome on January 15, 2012 at 3:46 AM

Yikes, I read the entire thread between Dr. Tesla and the other commenters.

I think Dr. Tesla is arrogant and his nitpicking on Allen West’s comment is disingenuous. West was referring to the faux outrage of the lefties over this. I felt like telling them to shut up too.

Second, while I understand that one can’t fully understand what it’s like to be in war, and I’ve never been in combat, I can comprehend what the heat of battle can do to a person – your adrenaline, the shock of being shot at and seeing your buddies killed, the ferocity and naked life and death scenario one faces… so when I saw this video, my first thought was wondering what they went through before it was all over… did their enemies ambush and kill some of their brothers in arms? Did they burn down a school for girls? Did they throw acid on some women’s faces? Burn down a village?

No, I wasn’t going to judge them for this, though whoever taped it was an idiot for letting it go viral. I do know this: if I went through what many soldiers do in war (and yes, what little I know is from film and books), I’d probably have done the exact same thing.

dukecitygirl on January 14, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Were you just allowed to express your opinion about war?

hawkdriver on January 14, 2012 at 12:19 PM

I actually see some hostility in your comment that I was referring to in yours, but really don’t understand how you get hostility out of mine.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:47 AM

Of course I do. I’m speaking metaphorically, not literally. Don’t you know what rhetoric is?

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:42 AM

Of course I do, I was speaking metaphorically years before you were even born.

And since you’ve chosen to take up a new flank, do you know what reality is?

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 3:48 AM

You should be ashamed of yourself for using tactics that are beneath any decent person.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 2:40 AM

I guess that even on the interwebs, war is hell. Except this isn’t war. It’s a blog with comments. These threads are starting to look like friendly fire with infinite re-loads.

Just sad.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on January 15, 2012 at 3:49 AM

Tom, there is no hostility whatsoever in that thread question. Do you think that question warrants the tirade she’s been on since?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM

NO, I think the “tirade” is because she feels like you’re trying to get her to admit she’s wrong, and she doesn’t think he is.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:50 AM

Tom, aka the voice of sanity, would you say this was “hostile”?:

I think Dr. Tesla is arrogant and his nitpicking on Allen West’s comment is disingenuous. West was referring to the faux outrage of the lefties over this. I felt like telling them to shut up too.

You see, Dr. Tesla was also saying that West was infringing on the first amendment rights of people. He erroneously believed that West meant for everyone to shut up. You and I interpreted it (after reading the entire statement) that he meant the faux outraged left.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:50 AM

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:43 AM

Tom, how do you get hostile out of that question? And really what did a thread about Palin have to do with the thread this started on?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:50 AM

For some strange reason, he went after me.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:46 AM

Lol….maybe he’s just lucky, eh?

I mean, it’s not like just anyone would flip out as you are obviously prone to do, and provide so much entertainment from such a simple thing as posting your opinion on the Internet…..

Lol…grow up sweetie…..

KMC1 on January 15, 2012 at 3:51 AM

NO, I think the “tirade” is because she feels like you’re trying to get her to admit she’s wrong, and she doesn’t think he is.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:50 AM

Thanks Tom. That means a lot. I’m going to have to hit the rack her too.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:52 AM

here too.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:52 AM

NO, I think the “tirade” is because she feels like you’re trying to get her to admit she’s wrong, and she doesn’t think he is.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:50 AM

It’s mainly his continuation of misrepresenting my comments. And Col. West’s.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:52 AM

NO, I think the “tirade” is because she feels like you’re trying to get her to admit she’s wrong, and she doesn’t think he is.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:50 AM

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner!

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:55 AM

BTW duke, before I go, you actually came to this thread after me. I accepted that you were upset but not necessarily hostile yet and continued to remain polite. I’m sorry that this was all so much for you. I certainly take no joy out of seeing folks get so upset. Maybe on a different subject, different thread we can be a little more understanding of each other sentiments.

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:57 AM

Thanks Tom. You’re a righteous dude.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:57 AM

And Col. West’s.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:52 AM

I’m sure Col. West being the man of honor, fairness, and integrity that he is, would be so proud of the way you’ve “defended” him on this thread.

/

Flora Duh on January 15, 2012 at 3:58 AM

It’s mainly his continuation of misrepresenting my comments. And Col. West’s.

dukecitygirl on January 15, 2012 at 3:52 AM

You’ve only misrepresented yourself.
And you have exposed yourself for who you are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo

Kini on January 15, 2012 at 3:58 AM

tom on January 15, 2012 at 3:43 AM

Tom, how do you get hostile out of that question?

Oh good. Now we’ve established that you didn’t intend it as a hostile question, and never expected it would be taken as a hostile question.

And really what did a thread about Palin have to do with the thread this started on?

hawkdriver on January 15, 2012 at 3:50 AM

You have to ask about Palin threads?

tom on January 15, 2012 at 4:05 AM

Good night, everybody.

Maybe tomorrow we can all pick on Obama?

Or Romney. But I understand some people here actually like him, for some reason.

tom on January 15, 2012 at 4:08 AM

O/T a tad,Speaking of being P*ssed On,er,P*ssed Off!!
—————————————————–

China angered by American sanctions on firm selling oil products to Iran

– BBCStory metadata:
Submitted 24 mins ago from http://www.bbc.co.uk by editor

http://www.breakingnews.com/
=============================

China angry at US sanctions on oil firm Zhuhai Zhenrong
15 January 2012 Last updated at 03:38 ET
*****************************************

China has criticised sanctions imposed by the US on a Chinese firm for selling refined petroleum products to Iran.

China’s foreign ministry said imposing unilateral sanctions on Zhuhai Zhenrong based on US law was “unreasonable”.

The US said on Thursday Zhuhai Zhenrong was one of three international firms to be punished for dealing with Iran.

It comes as Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao visits Arab oil-producing nations amid fears of major sanctions-related disruption to Iranian oil exports.

Mr Wen visited Saudi Arabia – China’s biggest source of imported oil – on Saturday.

He told Saudi Prince Nayef both countries are “in important stages of development and there are broad prospects for enhancing cooperation,” China’s state-run news agency Xinhua reports.

“Both sides must strive together to expand trade and co-operation, upstream and downstream, in crude oil and natural gas,” Mr Wen added.

During his visit, state-run Saudi oil giant Aramco and China’s Sinopec finalised an initial agreement to build an oil refinery in the Red Sea city of Yanbu to deal with 400,000 barrels per day.

Sanctions biting

Later on Saturday, Beijing denounced Washington’s decision to punish Zhuhai Zhenrong.
(More…)
==========

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16565563

canopfor on January 15, 2012 at 4:39 AM

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