WaPo gives “King of Bain” four Pinocchios

posted at 10:02 am on January 13, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Maybe there is something to the “inoculation” theory about the attacks on Bain Capital in the Republican primary.  Since it’s Newt Gingrich and his supporters taking a page from the Occupy/big labor playbook for the upcoming general election, the media might feel freer to take a critical look at the centerpiece of their offensive, the 29-minute film called “King of Bain.”  The Washington Post fact-checker Glenn Kessler took a very close look at it — and ripped the film and Gingrich with a four-Pinocchio rating, and a particularly stinging rebuke:

Newt Gingrich, meet Michael Moore!

The 29-minute video “King of Bain” is such an over-the-top assault on former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney that it is hard to know where to begin.

Let’s begin with how the filmmakers present their case that Unimac went out of business thanks to the predatory nature of Mitt Romney.  It turns out that not only did Romney have little to do with Unimac, the firm hasn’t gone out of business at all.  It’s currently producing appliances in Wisconsin, having moved there long after Romney left Bain and actually as Romney was concluding his term as governor of Massachusetts:

Bain Capital bought the business from Raytheon in 1998, and Romney left Bain a year later to run the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City. In 2005, Bain sold UniMac (also called Alliance Laundry) to a Canadian entity known as Teachers’ Private Capital. The factory was moved from Marianna to Ripon, Wisc., in 2006, after Bain’s involvement ended — a fact made clear on the Web site of a laundry repair business co-owned by the people featured in the film.

n fact, Mike Baxley, who was interviewed for the film, said that he and his partner had “absolutely no idea” that the interviews were for a film about Romney and Bain. He said they thought they were being interviewed for a documentary about the factory closing.
“They said they wanted to know what it was like when the factory closed down,” he said, and he, his partner and his partner’s wife agreed to interviews after “they flashed a little money at us.” (Baxley, a Republican who said he had not yet thought much about the nomination contest, declined to reveal the amount.)

After watching “King of Bain” at The Fact Checker’s request, he said: “We were pretty shocked. Our quotes were seriously taken out of context. There is a real lack of facts.”

Only one of the cases presented in the film actually involved Romney at all, the decline (not failure, as the film states) of Ampad.  The company exists as a subsidiary to Esselte, as Kessler notes, but did close its Marion, Indiana facility, which left a lot of bad feelings among the former workers there.  But why did Ampad decline?  Its core business — business supplies — got undermined by cheaper retail competitors, like Staples — a company that grew because of the investment of Bain Capital and Mitt Romney.

Kessler concludes:

Romney may have opened the door to this kind of attack with his suspect job-creation claims, but that is no excuse for this highly misleading portrayal of Romney’s years at Bain Capital. Only one of the four case studies directly involves Romney and his decision-making, while at least two are completely off point. The manipulative way the interviews appeared to have been gathered for the UniMac segment alone discredits the entire film.

Romney, however, isn’t sitting still.  He has responded in South Carolina with an ad balanced between positive and negative, looking at his record of creating jobs in the private sector, but also slamming Gingrich for “taking the Obama line”:

If the rest of the media follows Kessler’s lead, would this tend to discredit the attacks that will come later from Obama himself if Romney wins the nomination? I’d tend to think that it would at least muddy the waters considerably, and if this gets reported as desperation tactics in the primary, it’s going to have that stink about it in the general election as well.


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The Mittbots here are trying to suggest that Mittens was a self made man who started at the bottom through hard work and determination and worked his way to CEO of Bain.

That part of the story a lie. Nobody who inherits 100M starts at the bottom of anything.

angryed on January 13, 2012 at 12:57 PM

WOW!!! the stupidity.

So, the inheritance received after the death of his father in 1995 made a difference to Mitt career in the 1970′s?

Gunlock Bill on January 13, 2012 at 2:00 PM

Romney started this, and basically took unfair advantage of his money to kneecap Newt and change the polling data.

cane_loader on January 13, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Took unfair advantage of his money?

What is it with this sudden outpour of lefty language on HotAir?

Gelsomina on January 13, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Well I guess they are even. Sorry if this is repeat of someone else

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/romney-versus-gingrich-a-super-pacs-over-the-top-ad/2011/12/20/gIQAeJQn7O_blog.html

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:06 PM

angryed, tell me what candidate you want us to rally around. I promise that I won’t attack your choice. I’m asking this seriously.

blink on January 13, 2012 at 2:04 PM

She is a shill for Obama!

Gunlock Bill on January 13, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Gunlock Bill on January 13, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Oooh really? I thought he/she/it would just argue with a fence post.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:09 PM

blink on January 13, 2012 at 2:16 PM

I believe he will vote for the most conservative candidate available at his state’s primary.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:19 PM

If Romney is the nominee, the WaPo fact check analysis helps inoculate him from hyperbolic attacks that the Democrats are planning for the general election.

Read the actual analysis to understand why I make this point:
Four Pinocchios for ‘King of Bain’

(There are two articles referenced in the WaPo piece which will help the reader better understand the Bain Capital story.

That written, Romney needs to stop making the claim of helping to create 100,000 jobs, because as the WaPo fact check analysis points out, the claim is bogus.

Mitt Romney and 100,000 jobs: an untenable figure

However, the Bain Capital story remains a serious political problem for Romney with voters:

Romney’s Real Bain Capital Problem is Hypocrisy

The Democrats have also started to “twist the knife:”

Cutter memo twists the knife on Bain

Yes, Romney supporters will scream, Cutter is a Democrat, she is mouthing the OWS story, this is just a partisan hack attack, so on and so forth.

Right, but Richard Viguerie is a staunch conservative. He clearly enunciates the problem.

Then you have this:

Goldman’s switch
Honchos back Mitt over Bam

Some nice friends there. The folks that brought you TARP are now backing Romney because they want special favors.

This raises the question:

Will Gingrich, Santorum, or Perry take Viguerie’s analysis to make the point that Romney does not stand for free markets and moral hazard, but crony capitalism, where favored interests have the advantage over the little guy?

(I am paraphrasing what Viguerie wrote in his opinion piece.)

Yes, I have heard that Romney has been stealing Palin’s lines on crony capitalism.

However, unlike Palin, he is not going after both sides of the aisle, but only the Democrats.

Put it all together and what do you get with Romney? We don’t like Democratic crony capitalism, but we sure do love that good old fashioned Republican crony capitalism.

john.frank on January 13, 2012 at 2:22 PM

I don’t remember angryed being that argumentative in the past. I’m not sure if he has vowed to get revenge on Romney because his candidate is not longer running or what it is. But the willingness to lie about the Bain issue – even after these lies were exposed – was crazy.

blink on January 13, 2012 at 2:16 PM

So, Debbie Wasserman angryeyed’s candidate sucked so she got her panties in a bunch and is taking it out on Romney?

That doesn’t explain the use of the Democrat tactics of lies, innuendo and stupidity.

Gunlock Bill on January 13, 2012 at 2:26 PM

I couldn’t find the HotAir thread on WaPo’s Four Pinnochio Rating on Romney’s Pac ad against Newt. I swear I can look straight at something and miss it.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:31 PM

Put it all together and what do you get with Romney? We don’t like Democratic crony capitalism, but we sure do love that good old fashioned Republican crony capitalism.

john.frank on January 13, 2012 at 2:22 PM

I don’t like either and that is what made Gov. Palin so attractive, she went after both parties. Could be why both parties hate her.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:34 PM

blink on January 13, 2012 at 2:33 PM

Well for what it is worth, I linked WaPo’s story above.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:34 PM

I’d tend to think that it would at least muddy the waters considerably, and if this gets reported as desperation tactics in the primary, it’s going to have that stink about it in the general election as well.

Ah, but it will be Dems/Obama doing it in the general, and that won’t stink to the media folks at all…

Midas on January 13, 2012 at 2:35 PM

Gunlock Bill on January 13, 2012 at 2:26 PM

angryed is not an Obama supporter.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:36 PM

So my theory from a couple of days ago was right?

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/01/11/here-we-go-full-28-minute-movie-attacking-romneys-bain-work-debuts-at-gingrich-super-pac-site/comment-page-3/#comment-5294137

I’m starting to think this is all just an elaborate ploy by the Romney campaign to win the Republican candidacy and Presidency.

Phase One:

Behind closed doors Romney pays Newt and Perry to attack him with OWS style attacks to make him more sympathetic to people on the right who are skeptical or unenthusiastic of his candidacy and make him look more conservative by comparison.

Phase Two:

Create a 28-minute attack ad that is so over the top and so obviously a piece of manipulative propaganda, that anyone watching it would be insulted that someone was trying to pull this on them. Any future attempts by Democrats to attack Romney on Bain Capital would start to fall on deaf ears as people have tuned it out after watching this ridiculous video.

Maybe Romney is the real genius behind all this?

gumble on January 11, 2012 at 5:02 PM

gumble on January 13, 2012 at 2:39 PM

How strange that when Gingrich and his supporters complained about Romney’s dishonest ads we were all told to quit whining and get out of the kitchen. Well, take your own advice, Romney supporters.

Rose on January 13, 2012 at 2:39 PM

gumble on January 13, 2012 at 2:39 PM

If this is true, genius is a relative term.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:40 PM

angryed is not an Obama supporter.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:36 PM

Well, Debbie Wasserman angryeyed sure acts like it.

Here is an example.

Harlot is synonymous with whore/prostitute.

Nikki sold herself to Mitt in exchange for campaign debt payoff.

Hence she is a whore.

angryed on January 11, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Gunlock Bill on January 13, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Gunlock Bill on January 13, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Gov. Romney’s PAC did indeed give a lot of campaign money and I have to admit that I am not in favor of elected officials endorsing before their constituents have spoken. See how much nicer I worded that? Intemperate remarks do not make someone an Obama supporter, although I’m not sure what it does to the number of people who consider a person’s remarks seriously. Sometimes, just sometimes, a flame thrower is compelling.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM

As a post script to my earlier comment up thread, Gingrich supporters are citing this analysis in defense:

Did King of Bain deserve 4 Pinnochios?
http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/01/did-king-of-bain-deserve-4-pinnochios/

Professor Jacobson has posted the following Update to his piece:

Update: Newt released a statement calling for the SuperPAC to remove any inaccurate portions or pull the film, and challenging Romney to do the same with his SuperPAC. Expect outrage in 3 … 2 … 1 … that Newt supposedly is illegally “coordinating” with the SuperPAC.

The actual news release:

A Test of Leadership: Gingrich Repudiates Inaccuracies In SuperPac Ad. Will Romney Do The Same?
http://www.newt.org/news/test-leadership-gingrich-repudiates-inaccuracies-superpac-ad-will-romney-do-same

That is called “turning a lemon in lemonade.”

Bottom line: The Gingrich campaign is not disputing the WaPo analysis, but instead calling upon the SuperPac to edit the ad and movie to remove the inaccuracies or to pull them.

At the same time, the Gingrich campaign is calling upon Romney to show leadership.

Will he, or will he continue to dance as is his wont?

john.frank on January 13, 2012 at 2:58 PM

I’m starting to think this is all just an elaborate ploy by the Romney campaign to win the Republican candidacy and Presidency.

Phase One:

Behind closed doors Romney pays Newt and Perry to attack him with OWS style attacks to make him more sympathetic to people on the right who are skeptical or unenthusiastic of his candidacy and make him look more conservative by comparison.

Phase Two:

Create a 28-minute attack ad that is so over the top and so obviously a piece of manipulative propaganda, that anyone watching it would be insulted that someone was trying to pull this on them. Any future attempts by Democrats to attack Romney on Bain Capital would start to fall on deaf ears as people have tuned it out after watching this ridiculous video.

Maybe Romney is the real genius behind all this?

gumble on January 11, 2012 at 5:02 PM

you should post this on Alex Jones website ‘Infowars’ lol :-)…I’m sure he might be the only one who appreciates this sort of ‘things’ :-)…

jimver on January 13, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Hence she is a whore.

angryed on January 11, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Stop whoresing around. Everyone in politics is a whore. What’s your point?

John the Libertarian on January 13, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Wow. Just getting to the day’s news — and wow. Just wow.

The Gingrich film was a total fabrication?

They reported plants had closed that are still open and running fine?

They lied to the people interviewed in the film about the subject of the film and cut in narration that said they were speaking about Romney when they weren’t speaking about him because he wasn’t even there?

And now Gingrich is cutting all ties to the film because it is entirely false?

And CNBC has had to retract another hit piece on Romney today because it, too, was totally false?

Wow. Unbelievable. Imagine this trash job before the internet.

Romney is about to become Teflon Romney. “There you go again, Newt.”

Rational Thought on January 13, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Ok. Now that we have the pinniccios out of the way, can we concentrate on what a phony Republicrat and outright liberal RINO Romney (aka Obama-Lite) REALLY IS???? C’mon. Just sayin …

Colatteral Damage on January 13, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Yeah, relax everyone, Bain Capital is not going to hurt Romney at all in the general elections…(super extreme sarcasm).

mnjg on January 13, 2012 at 3:52 PM

The Mittbots here are trying to suggest that Mittens was a self made man who started at the bottom through hard work and determination and worked his way to CEO of Bain.
That part of the story a lie. Nobody who inherits 100M starts at the bottom of anything.
angryed on January 13, 2012 at 12:57 PM

He went to Harvard grad school after Stanford and BYU (and mission work). His tuition was probably paid for. How unfair!!! If only he’d been born in a mud hut…

Once there he graduated at the top of his class while pursuing a 4 year joint MBA/Law degree (only 15 people a year take this route). It’s an extraordinarily demanding path to take and only the very best get accepted into the program. So yeah, I’d say he got where he is through hard work and determination (and extraordinary leadership skills and so forth).

It’s really pitiful to see a pathological liar consumed by class envy. If you weren’t such an insufferable jackass I’d feel sorry for you.

Buy Danish on January 13, 2012 at 3:54 PM

This is for you angryed. Enjoy!

Buy Danish on January 13, 2012 at 4:02 PM

It seems as if he became crazy unhinged. Unhinged enough to use the above.

blink on January 13, 2012 at 2:31 PM

Angryed’s been a long time poster and appears to be quite conservative. Just my impression, but he’s become even more frustrated and angry with the process and stupidity that’s going on and believes in the “scorched earth” approach, which is to leave the dems to drive the country over the cliff and own it. There’s a number of people who subscribe to this belief. In some ways I myself can see the attractiveness to it.

I think you do angryed a disservice by poking at him. He’s had some good thoughts previously and even now with the frustration there’s still value in them. He’s not unhinged.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:04 PM

What is it with this sudden outpour of lefty language on HotAir?

Gelsomina on January 13, 2012 at 2:01 PM

I’ve noticed the same thing yet those engaged in it do not want to see it themselves.

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Bottom line: The Gingrich campaign is not disputing the WaPo analysis, but instead calling upon the SuperPac to edit the ad and movie to remove the inaccuracies or to pull them.

At the same time, the Gingrich campaign is calling upon Romney to show leadership.

Will he, or will he continue to dance as is his wont?

john.frank on January 13, 2012 at 2:58 PM

John,
This is nothing more than Gingrich STILL being a typical politician and trying to save himself for an attack that is actually hurting him.

You do see that don’t you?

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:08 PM

He’s not unhinged.
kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:04 PM

I beg to differ. But let’s stipulate for the sake of argument he’s not nuts. Doesn’t it bother you that he’s a serial prevaricator?

Buy Danish on January 13, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Good to know the bigger picture.

I think Newt should slither away and get out after this hit piece. Only four Pinocchios? I’d give it a ten.

I’m not all that hot about Romney but Newt’s false allegations are making Romney look more like an underdog in a dirty street fight, and I am partial to underdogs.

billrowe on January 13, 2012 at 4:09 PM

The Mittbots here are trying to suggest that Mittens was a self made man who started at the bottom through hard work and determination and worked his way to CEO of Bain.
That part of the story a lie. Nobody who inherits 100M starts at the bottom of anything.
angryed on January 13, 2012 at 12:57 PM

He went to Harvard grad school after Stanford and BYU (and mission work). His tuition was probably paid for. How unfair!!! If only he’d been born in a mud hut…

Once there he graduated at the top of his class while pursuing a 4 year joint MBA/Law degree (only 15 people a year take this route). It’s an extraordinarily demanding path to take and only the very best get accepted into the program. So yeah, I’d say he got where he is through hard work and determination (and extraordinary leadership skills and so forth).

It’s really pitiful to see a pathological liar consumed by class envy. If you weren’t such an insufferable jackass I’d feel sorry for you.

Buy Danish on January 13, 2012 at 3:54 PM

Now, now. We have to define “self made” here, don’t we?

Does self made mean having advantages that 99% (heh) of the population don’t. Or does it mean starting from scratch, working numerous crappy jobs, going to school or working 18 hour days, etc?

Romney’s had advantages. It is what it is. Life’s unfair. Cliche, cliche.

As someone who’s had to work their way through school, it’s quite difficult to be “as good” as people who don’t have the distractions of work and other life issues. Yes, Romney is very accomplished, but he’s had the ability to focus solely on that whereas the 99% don’t have that ability. You just can’t compete with privilege. I’m not complaining, but just pointing out that you really can’t compare what Romney can do as opposed to someone without that privilege. It’s also unfair to not give some credit to Romney for taking advantage of his situation and actually accomplishing something.

I think you folks have been unfair to angryed here – there’s a lot to think about with different perspectives. By no stretch can you call Romney “self-made”. But that doesn’t have to mean it’s a slam either.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Yeah, relax everyone, Bain Capital is not going to hurt Romney at all in the general elections…(super extreme sarcasm).

mnjg on January 13, 2012 at 3:52 PM

MNJG…
I agree that this will not hurt him. Because it is being vetted NOW and voters will see that there is no “there” there and do not like to rehash old stories. Romney has and will continue to show that he actually HELPED companies and made them more successful so they COULD hire employees and get people back to work.

He will roll out many of these CEO’s who will go to bat for capitalism.

I think that many times those that say we should not be afraid of promoting conservatism and yet here is the opportunity to promote conservatism through capitalism and some candidates and posters here are shying…errrr…running away from it.

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:12 PM

WaPo should get a few Pinocchio’s for not doing their homework better and fact checker:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/01/did-king-of-bain-deserve-4-pinnochios/

wodiej on January 13, 2012 at 4:18 PM

MNJG…
I agree that this will not hurt him. Because it is being vetted NOW and voters will see that there is no “there” there and do not like to rehash old stories. Romney has and will continue to show that he actually HELPED companies and made them more successful so they COULD hire employees and get people back to work.

He will roll out many of these CEO’s who will go to bat for capitalism.

I think that many times those that say we should not be afraid of promoting conservatism and yet here is the opportunity to promote conservatism through capitalism and some candidates and posters here are shying…errrr…running away from it.

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Yeah keep living in your delusional world. The delusion is strong with you if you think that in this environment we live in where a majority of voters despise Wall Street a CEO and founder of a financial firm who business is buying and selling companies and in the process many people lose their jobs is going to be elected President.

mnjg on January 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

He’s not unhinged.
kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:04 PM

I beg to differ. But let’s stipulate for the sake of argument he’s not nuts. Doesn’t it bother you that he’s a serial prevaricator?

Buy Danish on January 13, 2012 at 4:08 PM

I may have missed it, but I don’t see where he’s done that. At lot of this is subjective. For instance, I would refuse to call Romney “self-made” for reasons given previously.

If you mean the 100 million, regardless of when you get it, it gives you a LOT of leeway in the meantime, doesn’t it? More respect, more opportunity, etc. Look at Megs McCain. Dumb as a sack of hammers, but because of her name and her future people give her the time of day. Poppa may leave her $0.10, but people are willing to hedge on that and there is a certain “cachet” to having been in that kind of wealth.

But back to Romney – it doesn’t mean I don’t respect what he has accomplished and give him props for taking full advantage of his opportunities. There’s a lot of positive to be taken from that and I’d almost use the word “role model”, although that would probably give some the vapors (and to note that I am VERY conservative).

Plus, this is a discussion board. He’s creating discussion. ;) Is that a bad thing?

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

It’s also unfair to not give some credit to Romney for taking advantage of his situation and actually accomplishing something.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Kim,
Romney’s advantage was he is SMART. He took that intelligence (I guess you can say he inherited it from his Dad) and graduated in the top 5% from Harvard with TWO degrees in Law and Business.

He then took those degrees and his intelligence and made something of himself. Hence he WAS self-made. Many of the threads here on HA like to paint some evil, corporate, Daddy Warbucks picture of Romney.

The guy is brilliant and EVERYONE that has worked around him has said this that he is just a smart guy and with usually people with brains know how to make themselves successful.

Why are we as conservatives even having to explain this on HA????

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

I couldn’t find the HotAir thread on WaPo’s Four Pinnochio Rating on Romney’s Pac ad against Newt. I swear I can look straight at something and miss it.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 2:31 PM

Thread winner.

Portia46 on January 13, 2012 at 4:22 PM

where a majority of voters despise Wall Street a CEO and founder of a financial firm who business is buying and selling companies and in the process many people lose their jobs is going to be elected President.

mnjg on January 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

hahaha again with the “I hate people who make money” comments. Where does this come from on our side?

Also I think you give way too much credit for the OWS and MOST Americans laugh at those guys and will look back on the last 4 years of Obama and then see what Romney has accomplished and will know which person can make the environment better for them to be gainfully employed.

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Why do you think this is a good idea at ALL?
That, Sir/Maam, is foolish.

Badger40 on January 13, 2012 at 11:11 AM

If you had read anything that I have written for the past 3 months, you would have taken note of the fact that I have consistently stated negative campaigning in a primary is the political equivalent to fratricide. Stupid, counter-productive and morale killing. Romney opened up the season with knives out instead of running a positive, issues oriented primary campaign and appproximately zero percent of this supporters cared about the certain-to-come boomarang effect that would have when his victims recovered enough to return the favor.

Secondly, making snarky comments that include a very juvenile name-calling smear about someone and then self-righteously concluding that same person should have left that argument on the school playground is about as foolishly blind to irony as possible.

MTLassen on January 13, 2012 at 4:24 PM

MTLassen on January 13, 2012 at 4:24 PM

MT
Romney did NOT begin his campaigns with the knives out. He has ran a good campaign. He has run many strong positive ads all over the country, some promoting his strengths, some attacking Obama, and yes, some attacking his primary opponents. This is typical in EVERY campaign.

Also I believe IA and NH have liked him enough to vote for him. SC and FL will be next and then on from there. As I have said on here for years, Romney has MORE support than many of you believe he does and it is coming to fruition.

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:29 PM

hahaha again with the “I hate people who make money” comments. Where does this come from on our side?

Also I think you give way too much credit for the OWS and MOST Americans laugh at those guys and will look back on the last 4 years of Obama and then see what Romney has accomplished and will know which person can make the environment better for them to be gainfully employed.

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:23 PM

It has nothing to do with OWS and that most Americans do not like them. It is a fact that a majority of voters despise Wall Street but they are not lunatics like the OWS. Again keep living in your delusions that Romney is going to defeat Obama and that his Bain Capital record is not going to hurt him. I said it many times before, Romney and his supporters are the most delusional and most arrogant people in America and they are totally detached from reality.

mnjg on January 13, 2012 at 4:31 PM

I think you folks have been unfair to angryed here – there’s a lot to think about with different perspectives. By no stretch can you call Romney “self-made”. But that doesn’t have to mean it’s a slam either.
kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Did I use the word “self-made”? Nope. I took issue with the ‘hard work and determination’ claim.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

He rarely, if ever, gets his facts straight. I suppose it’s possible to argue that he doesn’t intentionally lie, that he’s just woefully uninformed. I lean toward the former, based on what I see as malice aforethought.

Buy Danish on January 13, 2012 at 4:35 PM

As many Romney supporters have been saying…there are more of us than some on HA like to believe.

“Mitt is the only non-incumbent GOP candidate for president to have ever won both Iowa and New Hampshire and his total vote count is the second largest number of votes ever received by a non-incumbent candidate in New Hampshire. Mitt won the First in the Nation Primary with an impressive 39%, but as we look deeper into exit polls from New Hampshire’s Primary, we’ve come across another statistic that speaks to the significance of Mitt’s victory.

Removing Independents and looking solely at Republican voters who cast ballots, the results show that even in a highly contested GOP field, an impressive 49% of Republicans voted for Mitt on Tuesday. That’s the highest percentage of the Republican vote that any non-incumbent candidate has earned in the New Hampshire GOP Presidential Primaries since Ronald Reagan over 30 years ago.”

Republican voting percentages in contested NH Primaries:

2012: Mitt Romney – 49%
2008: John McCain – 34%
2000: John McCain – 38%
1996: Pat Buchanan – 29%
1988: George H. W. Bush – 40%
1980: Ronald Reagan – 45%

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/mitt-romney-doesnt-have-a-republican-problem/2012/01/13/gIQAIls9vP_blog.html

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:43 PM

john.frank on January 13, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Indeed.

So many many reasons to vote against this man who flip flops more than Kerry ever did. At least Kerry stayed in the Democratic Party and never pretended to be a Republican after being to the left of the Democrats for years like Republican Democrat Romney does.

Steveangell on January 13, 2012 at 4:49 PM

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:29 PM

You’re right. He only bombed Newt with $6 million + in attack ads in order to secure less than 20 delegates after Newt took the lead in Iowa and contiuned to dump sewage on Newt and Santorum through the entire NH campaign.

Romney’s been playing dirty from the moment he felt vulnerable. The grimly humorous thing about that is watching his supporters deny that fact, while at the same time crying about being attacked by the very same people he carpet-bombed.

Grow up, sport.

MTLassen on January 13, 2012 at 4:49 PM

And again, from what I remember reading and hearing from people in Iowa, didn’t Santorum actually Iowa? Wasn’t there something like 20 votes that were counted for Romney, that actually were suppose to go to Santorum? I ask because one of the doctors I work for is from Iowa and has had the articles sent to him. Why isn’t it being mentioned here, instead claiming that Romney won Iowa?

noneoftheabove on January 13, 2012 at 4:58 PM

should have read “didn’t Santorum actually win Iowa?”

noneoftheabove on January 13, 2012 at 4:58 PM

john.frank on January 13, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Yes what a liberal State New Hampshire is and many people live in the south and have much allegiance to Mass. Besides Romney owns a huge estate there.

Steveangell on January 13, 2012 at 4:59 PM

john.frank on January 13, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Exactly.

This reminds me of another Democrat Obama. Though Obama crys race and Romney crys Saul Alinsky. Neither like it one bit when the tables are turned.

If you are confused it is true that Romney now self identifies as a Republican. Don’t let that fool you he is a Democrat in reality.

Steveangell on January 13, 2012 at 5:02 PM

So is Allah writing the story on Obama’s request for more executive power to “stream line” the government?

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Kim,
Romney’s advantage was he is SMART. He took that intelligence (I guess you can say he inherited it from his Dad) and graduated in the top 5% from Harvard with TWO degrees in Law and Business.

He then took those degrees and his intelligence and made something of himself. Hence he WAS self-made. Many of the threads here on HA like to paint some evil, corporate, Daddy Warbucks picture of Romney.

The guy is brilliant and EVERYONE that has worked around him has said this that he is just a smart guy and with usually people with brains know how to make themselves successful.

Why are we as conservatives even having to explain this on HA????

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Where in the world did I say anything to the contrary?? I did say that it all depends on your interpretation of the phrase “self-made”. I disagree with your definition of it. That doesn’t mean I think he’s not smart, accomplished or what have you, just that I don’t think he’s self-made.

You’re knee jerking and reading your own issues into my words.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 5:11 PM

I think you folks have been unfair to angryed here – there’s a lot to think about with different perspectives. By no stretch can you call Romney “self-made”. But that doesn’t have to mean it’s a slam either.
kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Did I use the word “self-made”? Nope. I took issue with the ‘hard work and determination’ claim.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

He rarely, if ever, gets his facts straight. I suppose it’s possible to argue that he doesn’t intentionally lie, that he’s just woefully uninformed. I lean toward the former, based on what I see as malice aforethought.

Buy Danish on January 13, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Fair enough. It’s easy, though, to think that the rich and people who have things a little easier don’t work for it. Now whether that’s considered class warfare YMMV.

It’s a double sided sword. I’ve seen people work less hard for the same thing than others because they’ve had advantages. Having said that, he could have taken the easy way out and relied solely on his advantages. IMHO that’s to the benefit to Romney and shows some character.

I don’t know what angryed’s intentions are, but I just see someone very frustrated and not as bad as you make him to be. I appreciate his point of view because it’s one I don’t see too often.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 5:17 PM

All I can say to the GOP elite (and more so, their wanna-bees)
IF you succeed in forcing Romney down our throats, you had better hope and pray he wins AND… he is a great President.

I say this in all seriousness.

Otherwise you are witnessing the birth of a third party.

Too many tricks and set ups, dirty and otherwise. Look at Virginia.

The regular people that care SEE what is happening to the undesired (Newt and Perry) who are the people we need NOT to just beat Obama but CHANGE this country back before it’s too late with certainty!

I am disappointed with Hot Air, I really am.

golfmann on January 13, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Angryed’s been a long time poster and appears to be quite conservative. Just my impression, but he’s become even more frustrated and angry with the process and stupidity that’s going on and believes in the “scorched earth” approach, which is to leave the dems to drive the country over the cliff and own it. There’s a number of people who subscribe to this belief. In some ways I myself can see the attractiveness to it.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 4:04 PM

He doesn’t want to leave the dems to drive the country over the cliff – HE WANTS TO JUMP IN THE DRIVER SEAT AND DRIVE IT OVER THE CLIFF HIMSELF.

That being said, I can see the merits in making the dems own it, but angryed is going about this in the wrong way.

blink on January 13, 2012 at 4:37 PM

LOL! I can see how you’d think that.

Certainly, the ideal thing would be for the dems to own it without driving the car over the cliff and then fixing the problems, but how? That’s the hard part.

kim roy on January 13, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Eh, the only person in the race that will FIX IT is Newt. I am willing to support Santorum because I think he will convince some people as president of the need to fix it, but it will be up to his successor to do the fixing.

astonerii on January 13, 2012 at 6:04 PM

Why are we as conservatives even having to explain this on HA????

g2825m on January 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Herman Cain is self made as is Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and so forth.

I think self-made means made solely by yourself Mitt was NOT self-made he was given a Harvard Education. Now of course unlike some others that are given this Mitt became a huge success in and of himself. He earned it I would venture to say he could have done it from nothing but he did not.

Yes perhaps it makes a person born to riches to not like that they will never be self-made but a much higher percentage of those born to riches become successful somewhat to totally because of the advantages money gives them. Mitt is unmistakeably a brilliant businessman and politician. He made himself both of these he out performed nearly all around him. But his fathers riches got him started and that is simply a fact.

Steveangell on January 13, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Award-Winning Comment at the WaPo link:

If Republicans choose Romney, and the Democrats make a movie about him, you can rest assured it will be based on facts.

Yeah, they will probably hire Michael Moore to make it…

Del Dolemonte on January 13, 2012 at 6:11 PM

If Republicans choose Romney, and the Democrats make a movie about him, you can rest assured it will be based on facts.
Agreed Del at least the Wash Post makes me laugh with their liberal bias occasionally.

Steveangell on January 13, 2012 at 6:15 PM

What is it with this sudden outpour of lefty language on HotAir?

Gelsomina on January 13, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Maybe because it is a liberal website?

Mcguyver on January 13, 2012 at 7:03 PM

Hey Guys, Newt is sorry now, and he is a Catholic. So, using old acts against him, even as late as yesterday, cannot be brought up. He wants to keep his campaign positive.

Whatever!

At least he still has Limbaugh and Todd Palin’s endorsements.

mark cantu on January 14, 2012 at 6:48 AM

mark cantu on January 14, 2012 at 6:48 AM

The idea of forgiveness is that past sins are never considered when dealing with someone who has asked for forgiveness and repented. It is more that you shed the hatred you have for the person that is attached to those sins. The hatred people hold against others is damaging to themselves and in general is not really harming the other person. In reality, what I just wrote is probably about the value of a single grain of sand compared to the vast numbers of grains on the earth in describing forgiveness, but it is a reason why it is important to forgive.

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 12:52 PM

The idea of forgiveness is NOT that past sins are never considered when dealing with someone who has asked for forgiveness and repented. It is more that you shed the hatred you have for the person that is attached to those sins. The hatred people hold against others is damaging to themselves and in general is not really harming the other person. In reality, what I just wrote is probably about the value of a single grain of sand compared to the vast numbers of grains on the earth in describing forgiveness, but it is a reason why it is important to forgive.

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 12:52 PM

astonerii on January 14, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Cast as Romney’s Victim, Gaffney South Carolina Says, ‘Huh?’
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/14/us/politics/cast-as-romneys-victim-gaffney-sc-says-huh.html?_r=1

Gov. Rick Perry of Texas picked up the theme this week, calling Mr. Romney a “vulture capitalist” and pointing to Gaffney as an example of the depths to which Mr. Romney will stoop to make a profit.

There is a problem, though. Here in Gaffney, where deeply held Christian beliefs often matter more than jobs, few remember the Holson Burnes photo album plant, let alone the devastation its closing is alleged to have caused back in 1992.

“I have been here all my life,” said Ed Elliott, who sells insurance. “I’m 59 years old, and I’ve never heard of the plant.”

That Bain’s actions carry little resonance in a community whose woes have been seized on by presidential candidates testifies to the impact of the campaigns’ opposition research and their willingness to exploit a convenient storyline. Here in Gaffney, the focus is a little embarrassing for residents who do not know what all the fuss is about.

“Nobody here really cares about that. It wasn’t a big deal,” Mr. Sossamon said. Others are similarly mystified.

That is not to say the loss of any job does not matter here. This city of 12,000 people has been brought to its knees first by the loss of the agricultural sector and then by the slow collapse of the textile industry. But there is work to be had. The photo album plant that was abandoned by Bain soon became home to a Bic pen factory that employs 80 people.

Nestlé has a large factory here, where a thousand workers make frozen dinners and other packaged food. The Freightliner Custom Chassis Corporation, with 500 employees, fashions chassis for school buses and mobile homes. About 700 people work at Timken producing steel roller bearings.

“We’re not Appalachia here,” Mr. Elliott said. “We’re not in poverty.”

oops….

haner on January 14, 2012 at 6:07 PM

Gingrich is giving us Romney by acting like an OWS clown

DaMav on January 15, 2012 at 3:37 PM

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