Quotes of the day

posted at 10:39 pm on January 12, 2012 by Allahpundit

“Senior military officials in Kabul and at the Pentagon confirmed that the video was authentic and that they had identified the Marines as members of the Third Battalion, Second Marines, which completed a tour of Afghanistan this fall before returning to its base at Camp Lejeune, N.C. The officials did not release the Marines’ names but said one wore a corporal’s uniform.

“Pentagon officials said the video had been made between March and September 2011, when the Marine battalion was stationed in Helmand Province, a strategic Taliban heartland and a center of the opium poppy trade. The officials said that they did not know the precise location shown in the video but that it had probably been made in the northern part of the province, where the battalion had been operating. Seven of the approximately 1,000 Marines in the battalion were killed during the seven-month deployment…

“The Taliban initially indicated that the video would not undermine the push toward talks, saying that they saw it as just more evidence of what they said was American brutality and arrogance.

“But later on Thursday, in an official statement, the Taliban dropped references to the talks and emphasized the brutality message. ‘We strongly condemn the inhuman act of wild American soldiers, as ever, and consider this act in contradiction with all human and ethical norms,’ the statement said.’”

***

“Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta said he had viewed the video and considered it ‘utterly deplorable.’ He telephoned Afghan President Hamid Karzai and pledged a full investigation…

“Gen. James F. Amos, the commandant of the Marine Corps, said he had asked the Naval Criminal Investigative Service to ‘pull together a team of their very best agents and immediately assign them responsibility to thoroughly investigate every aspect of the filmed event.’ He also said he would assign a Marine general and a senior attorney to conduct a parallel inquiry.

“‘The institution of the Marine Corps will not rest until the allegations and the events surrounding them have been resolved,’ Amos said. ‘We remain fully committed to upholding the Geneva Convention, the Laws of War, and our own core values.’”

***

“Western officials in Kabul, meanwhile, described the statement Mr. Karzai issued before the conversation as levelheaded and not inflammatory. In the past, Mr. Karzai has used similar incidents to stoke anti-Western sentiment in Afghanistan…

“In Afghanistan, far fewer people have televisions, or even electricity, meaning the latest images aren’t likely to spread widely. Accounts are likely to spread by word of mouth, though, and could fuel more violence against the coalition by Afghans who feel that the disrespect shown to the dead violates Islam. In Islam, the dead must be washed and their bodies buried within 24 hours.

“The Taliban themselves have a tainted record on that score. When they took over Kabul in 1996, they brutally killed Mohammad Najibullah, the deposed communist president who was seeking refuge at a U.N. compound in the city. They hung his castrated corpse and that of his brother from a traffic light on a busy street in Kabul for all to see, in violation of Islamic tradition. The Taliban in recent years frequently hung suspected government spies’ corpses from trees in areas they control…

“Desecrating the bodies of enemy combatants is a violation of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. The Marines involved could face a court-martial.”

***

“[C]ombat stress is no excuse for the behavior, retired Col. Jack Jacobs, an NBC News analyst and a Medal of Honor recipient for his actions in the Vietnam War, told msnbc.com.

“‘I’ve been through combat and been stressed out, and I’ve been out of combat and been stressed out, and I don’t think it’s a reason or an excuse for this kind of behavior. They’ve received instruction on how to act and what to do before and after their deployment.’ Jacobs said. ‘These are just idiots who are poorly supervised and led … they proved they are idiots because they took pictures of it.’

“But for another veteran the video is not shocking at all.

“‘Many people in this country that worry far more about public relations and how we are perceived by the rest of the world are shocked at Marines urinating on Taliban,’ retired Army Sgt. Maj. Herb Freidman, an author and authority on psychological operations, told msnbc.com. ‘Why? They are murderers and terrorists that think nothing of blowing up soldiers, civilians, women and children. What have they done to deserve our respect? There are Marines being killed and maimed on a daily basis by these people. They are flying in from Muslim countries all over the world to get their crack at martyrdom. If some Marine that fought them in battle fair and square feels that he has the right to urinate on a defeated enemy, what is the problem? Hell, it could be worse…. It is a fight to the death, not some sort of gentlemanly duel with seconds and everyone very politely drinking a fine wine afterwards.’”

***

“Alex Lemons, a former Marine sergeant who deployed to Iraq three times – including once as scout sniper – reflects on the video of four Marines urinating on the corpses of three dead Taliban in Afghanistan:…

“War is not a moral agent. ‘War is hell, shit happens and trophies get taken,’ is a copout from an irresponsible person. War doesn’t make anyone do anything because it is not a living thing…

“The Marine Corps doesn’t teach anyone to do this.

“Choices were made and they were not good ones. This is what maintains our moral high ground. It doesn’t matter if the Taliban cut heads off and videotape them.

“The whole point, as I was told since 2001, was not to become like them, or to be comparable to them.”

***

“But the missing ingredient, so far, is Afghan outrage. There have yet to be protests, let alone violence — although it’s possible that will take time to build. Yet just this past spring, Afghans rioted in response to a preacher who burned Korans in Florida, which occurred shortly after photos surfaced of a rogue U.S. ‘kill team’ posing with their gruesome trophies. Twenty people died in those riots after protesters in Mazar-e-Sharif stormed a United Nations compound…

“Perhaps the outrage is taking longer to build than usual. Even so, that would amount to a tragic popular judgment on the war: Afghans — who’ve lived through 30 years of war with Russians, Americans, and rival Afghan factions — just might not be so surprised by a videotaped outrage anymore.”

***

***

***


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maximum punishment should be an article 15 and “maybe” a drop in rank. Not more than that. In my view a severe reprimand and KP for a month week is sufficient. DD

Darvin Dowdy on January 13, 2012 at 7:10 AM

In fact, I’m writing it. It’s likely to be called “War and Piss”.

Igor R. on January 13, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Truly a classic!

Perhaps you could include a chapter on how Vlad the Impaler learned his favorite method of torture an desecration of the bodies of his enemies from Muslims.

WhatNot on January 13, 2012 at 7:13 AM

The soldiers involved should have dropped their pants and defecated on these dead Taliban scum as well. I’m tired of the pissing and moaning from people stateside who worry more about how well we treat the enemy rather than focusing on destroying them.

zoyclem on January 13, 2012 at 7:14 AM

I would buy these guys a drink.

BBReggie on January 13, 2012 at 7:17 AM

I’m all OUTRAGED out.

PappyD61 on January 13, 2012 at 7:30 AM

What until the powers that be find out that the Marines in fact killed them.

RobertInLexington on January 13, 2012 at 7:38 AM

A few numbskulls tarnish the Corps. Dumb, just dumb.

This is not representative of our great Marine Corps.
To all the wonderful men and women serving our country: my thanks and my prayers.

tonotisto on January 12, 2012 at 10:50 PM

Yes to that. Just like the Abu Ghraib idiocy shouldn’t cast a permanent cloud over the U.S. Army. But optics, man. If it were Them urinating on a few of our dead soldiers, it could catapult us into WW111.

GEEZ @#$%&!!!!! As to the dumba$$es who photograph or film this kind of a-holiness, they need to face the same charges as the obvious perpetrators.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 13, 2012 at 7:39 AM

Today’s media.
Pissing on a dead enemy can not be tolerated.
Shitting on the American flag while claiming to be a medal of honor recipient must be tolerated.

Grunt on January 13, 2012 at 7:39 AM

For crying out loud… You can’t pee on them. But if you put them in a jar full of urine and call it art that’s a different story.

iceman1960 on January 12, 2012 at 11:16 PM

“Piss Christ” was supported by the National Endowment for the Arts. Surely they’d open their wallets for a choice frame from the Marine video. Say, “Piss on Mohammed’s Warriors.”

Barnestormer on January 13, 2012 at 7:39 AM

To the people commenting here in defense of this behavior, your rationales are extremely misguided. The vast majority of our servicemen and women who have been fighting this war have not stooped to desecrating the bodies of those we’ve killed. This is an IO war. For every village that the US military earns the respect of through months/years of dedicated civility while we wage combat with their people, there are many more that only hear of propaganda from the enemy with half truths and outright lies. When you give them an IO victory like this on a silver platter, you marginalize every other accomplishment.

This, on top of the fact that it’s just wrong. There is nothing else gained on the battlefield by showing disrespect to the remains of the ones you’ve killed. I don’t care what they’ve done to us. We’re a fighting force of civilized men and women and this isn’t any part of the playbook.

There’s only one thing that will do anything to lessen the damage and that’s conducting a Court Martial on every Marine involved.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 7:42 AM

The only thing wrong with this act is that the guys let it become a story beyond their circle and it gives fuel to those who don’t know and don’t care what war is like, especially under ROE’s that unduly restrict our troops and by default give an advantage to our enemies who belong to no state and as such deserve NO protections under the Geneva Conventions or our own UCMJ.

insidiator on January 13, 2012 at 7:48 AM

HD, its the double standard in the media that’s infuriating

cmsinaz on January 13, 2012 at 7:53 AM

typical State Dept appeaser mindset…

who really cares about this (besides Liberals)?

mjbrooks3 on January 13, 2012 at 7:55 AM

HD, its the double standard in the media that’s infuriating

cmsinaz on January 13, 2012 at 7:53 AM

I agree. But if the servicemen hadn’t conducted the behavior currently in question, there’d be no current event to have a double standard over.

We don’t do this.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 7:58 AM

To the people commenting here in defense of this behavior, your rationales are extremely misguided. The vast majority of our servicemen and women who have been fighting this war have not stooped to desecrating the bodies of those we’ve killed. This is an IO war. For every village that the US military earns the respect of through months/years of dedicated civility while we wage combat with their people, there are many more that only hear of propaganda from the enemy with half truths and outright lies. When you give them an IO victory like this on a silver platter, you marginalize every other accomplishment.

This, on top of the fact that it’s just wrong. There is nothing else gained on the battlefield by showing disrespect to the remains of the ones you’ve killed. I don’t care what they’ve done to us. We’re a fighting force of civilized men and women and this isn’t any part of the playbook.

There’s only one thing that will do anything to lessen the damage and that’s conducting a Court Martial on every Marine involved.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 7:42 AM

This +1. What these Marines did was objectively bad for the mission.

reginaldL on January 13, 2012 at 7:59 AM

What until the powers that be find out that the Marines in fact killed them.

RobertInLexington on January 13, 2012 at 7:38 AM

Dang it! I haven’t had that “coffee out the nose” experience in so long.

Ya made me laugh when I was drinking coffee, Robert.

+2

ProfShadow on January 13, 2012 at 8:01 AM

I wonder if the whining libtards would find these acts “deplorable” after having been forced to watch a couple video clips of the Tolly Bon decapitating Americans?

UpTheCreek on January 13, 2012 at 8:02 AM

There’s only one thing that will do anything to lessen the damage and that’s conducting a Court Martial on every Marine involved.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 7:42 AM

I know you are right but I must admit this is one of those times when doing what is right feels more unsettling than it should.

Expecting the press to hang this on Obama, like Abu Ghraib was hung on Bush, denies that there is measurable bias, a liberal slant and promotion and protection of Obama’s agenda by the press.

It just isn’t going to happen.

Fallon on January 13, 2012 at 8:03 AM

Copy that HD

cmsinaz on January 13, 2012 at 8:03 AM

This, on top of the fact that it’s just wrong. There is nothing else gained on the battlefield by showing disrespect to the remains of the ones you’ve killed. I don’t care what they’ve done to us. We’re a fighting force of civilized men and women and this isn’t any part of the playbook.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 7:42 AM

Agreed. We’re better than this. All of us. We gain nothing by stooping to their level, and we degrade ourselves in the process.

AZCoyote on January 13, 2012 at 8:06 AM

We don’t do this.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 7:58 AM

We don’t do this.
Echo.
From Bravo Company.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 13, 2012 at 8:15 AM

Although I don’t condone this, nor would allow my Marines to exercise this sort of conduct, the whining on this thread and throughout the news amazes me. They knew the rules and broke them so they should be punished accordingly, but if you all think this is anything new in the history of warfare you are dead wrong. If we were a little more viscious in our actions and quit prosecuting this thing like a bunch of boyscouts we could wrap this up. Anyone who has been there knows this, anyone who denies this is just looking for a star one day. COIN is a joke, we all know it, it doesn’t work. The only thing the enemy understands is a bullet to the head period.

gator70 on January 13, 2012 at 8:15 AM

Hillary Clinton condemns ‘deplorable behavior’

What does Hillary Clinton know about ‘deplorable behavior’?? …Hey, the Clintons invented ‘deplorable behavior’ !!

These soldiers deserve only a “wrist-slap” and an admonition not to ever act like the Clinton’s !! ;)

BigSven on January 13, 2012 at 8:19 AM

If we were a little more viscious in our actions and quit prosecuting this thing like a bunch of boyscouts we could wrap this up. Anyone who has been there knows this, anyone who denies this is just looking for a star one day. COIN is a joke, we all know it, it doesn’t work. The only thing the enemy understands is a bullet to the head period.

gator70 on January 13, 2012 at 8:15 AM

Gator, I’ve been saying this since the ROE changed in 09. Hard for some to hear, but very well said.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 8:24 AM

A few numbskulls tarnish the Corps. Dumb, just dumb.

This is not representative of our great Marine Corps.
To all the wonderful men and women serving our country: my thanks and my prayers.

tonotisto on January 12, 2012 at 10:50 PM

Tru dat. Sometimes the actions of a few are taken as descriptive of all…*cough*…IYKWIM

It’s hard for me to muster sympathy for the enemy in this case. But yeah, Abu Graib started this kind of action, and I can still remember US servicemen and the puppy being tossed off a mountain ridge. So I do agree that these Marines did the wrong thing, and a court martial might seem extreme, but it would be appropriate I suppose.

Interesting tho that the Afghan Taliban originally said the incident wouldn’t hamper current talks, and then do a complete turnaround with outrageous outrage over it.

JetBoy on January 13, 2012 at 8:26 AM

Agreed. We’re better than this. All of us. We gain nothing by stooping to their level, and we degrade ourselves in the process.

AZCoyote on January 13, 2012 at 8:06 AM

Agreed. Does Haliburton have a French subsidiary ?

Barnestormer on January 13, 2012 at 8:27 AM

Wasn’t very smart to film it, other than that so what.

First off these dead aren’t uniformed Soldiers of a nation so pls don’t act as if these dead terrorists deserve the same respect. These dead are terrorist and have been doing far worse to civilians and our military so spare us the outrage.

For those asking for these Marines heads, well ask yourself what good would that do? It may result in more deaths of our Marines and Soldiers on the ground there and even civilians. Taking these snipers out of the battle would be stupid and basically knee jerk and why? Because people of offended.

The terrorists fear Marine sniper teams and rightly so and have rewards on their heads. Try to think what these Marines actually go thru and what they have seen. Sophmoric yes, but do you know or care what happened before these goons were killed? Setting up ieds, killing/raping/multilating the civilian population, setting up an ambush or engaging our forces. As I said so what.

GunnyRet03 on January 13, 2012 at 8:28 AM

Why in the world would you film this, much more send it to someone?

beatcanvas on January 13, 2012 at 8:28 AM

The radical Islamists stone women, hang gays, and consistently treat anyone who isn’t a Muslim male like cattle. They’ll have to forgive me for not being outraged at a few Marines using their pi$$ to wash them in preparation for a proper terrorist burial.

csdeven on January 13, 2012 at 8:29 AM

What a stretch to sound on topic while throwing in a plug for your pet issue. Folks wouldn’t allow themselves to think actions are descriptive of all, if there were more voices in that group that disavowed the rhetoric and behavior. IYKWIMAITYD

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 8:32 AM

They were already your enemies.

VorDaj on January 13, 2012 at 2:34 AM

My, what a convenient argument. No wonder there is bloodlust for perpetual war.

Dante on January 13, 2012 at 8:33 AM

What a stretch to sound on topic while throwing in a plug for your pet issue. Folks wouldn’t allow themselves to think actions are descriptive of all, if there were more voices in that group that disavowed the rhetoric and behavior. IYKWIMAITYD

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 8:32 AM

Umm, HELLO!

JetBoy on January 13, 2012 at 8:35 AM

Well said Hawk. Hooah

Dingbat63 on January 13, 2012 at 8:36 AM

I’m with Whoopie on this one. This isn’t a scandal scandal. And, note to the White House and the press, stop trying to stir it up into one.

azkag on January 13, 2012 at 8:43 AM

No wonder there is bloodlust for perpetual war.

Dante on January 13, 2012 at 8:33 AM

Sure there are some who have a bloodlust for war. They are called Islamic extremists….IOW, terrorists.

csdeven on January 13, 2012 at 8:46 AM

AZCoyote, Dingbat63, Ladysmith CulchaVulcha, Hooah back at you.

And Fallon, I agree. But we know the nature of the media. And likewise, we know the nature of an administration that would go overboard in their comments to condemn this. Clinton’s comments are over board. But in the end, against our grain, we do what’s right.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM

reginaldL, also well said.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 8:53 AM

Well well well, Obama has his very own little Abu Ghraib now. The lefties said Abu was Bush’s fault and he was personally responsible. I guess they will hold Obama to the same standard?

dczombie on January 13, 2012 at 8:56 AM

I’m all OUTRAGED out.

PappyD61 on January 13, 2012 at 7:30 AM

Yes

Metanis on January 13, 2012 at 9:00 AM

Piss on ‘em.

The Media, Panetta, Clinton and Obama. Who did you think I meant?

BigAlSouth on January 13, 2012 at 9:07 AM

A non-pc application of COIN:

Those Marines might be on to something. Sometimes here in the West the would-be martyrs drench themselves in fancy cologne before blowing themselves up. The thinking is (if you want to call it thinking), that they want to smell all sexy for their virgins. So, as a hypothesis, suitors bearing the opposite odors, such as from urine, might be a real turn off for the girls. If enough terrorists could count on two certainties 1) that they’re going to die, 2) they’re going to reek of infidel piss for all eternity, then Taliban loses this war. In other words, their own ratshit religion might dry up recruitment.

This is a speculation, but that’s why experimentation was invented. Meanwhile I’m with the person above who wants to buy these Marines a drink.

dhimwit on January 13, 2012 at 9:11 AM

American brutality and arrogance.

Regardless of your feelings about those Marines’ behavior you have to laugh at the Taliban’s indignation over brutality and arrogance.

It’s like Nancy Pelosi lecturing about corruption and….

Oh, yeah.

RDuke on January 13, 2012 at 9:18 AM

IMO peeing on the corpses was too good for them. If it were up to me, I would have fed them to the hogs! Realize it will take being more brutal than islam to stop it’s spreading! Your life may depend on it.

GFW on January 13, 2012 at 9:18 AM

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 7:42 AM

Strip away the emotion and leave just the logic and this is the correct statement to be made. Thanks for a measured and cogent response.

Bmore on January 13, 2012 at 9:19 AM

Just imagine if they did that to our soldiers. Enough said.

Gall on January 13, 2012 at 9:20 AM

Heh, killers not true marines, mutilating enemies for fun, what’s a little soulless evil debauchery for killers like these satanist. Well done boys, I got a buck for anyone who can one up these jerks lol

residentblue on January 13, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Someone let me know when the Morons stop filiming themselves desecrating the bodies of the enemy. Or taking pictures of themselves with dead civilians or torturing prisoners.

Its one thing to do it, its another to Film it…freaking morons.

Dino V on January 13, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Coming in late on this one based on the # of comments – so pardon if I repeat some thoughts.

I agree with all of the comments re: this is wrong/stupid/immoral behavior. No call for this in any war, against any enemy.

My understanding is that this tape is actually several months old. It was posted on the internet. Garbage like the song “Friday” goes viral in a matter of hours/days. Why did it take so long for this to come to light when it was in the public domain for so long?

Interesting that this comes (along with the “outrage” from our government and the Taliban) on the heals of the announcement of dramatic cuts for the military. Is it a little easier to stomach such drastic cuts in the face of evidence that our military is “out of control” and engaged in “immoral actions?”

Also, it comes in the midst of the announcement that POTUS has determined (deemed?) he will basically raise the debt ceiling (again), caring little what (our ineffective) congress thinks. But who cares? Some Marines desecrated corpses.

Those Marines were wrong. It will have strategic impact. Nothing will change that. I just question how (as in the past) certain “news” items seems to come to the forefront at “opportune” times. It’s media/political chaff to keep the masses distracted from the implosion.

Regarding the pending Afghan/worldwide “outrage” – it will come if we (media, government, etc.) develop it. A very large percentage of Afghans still don’t even know that 9-11 happened. (Thus, they have no idea why we are there). What makes anyone think they know THIS happened, unless we make sure they do? If they aren’t outraged now, they will be. But only because someone told them to be outraged.

Hueydriver on January 13, 2012 at 9:30 AM

you marginalize every other accomplishment.

What accomplishments. We’ve killed a lot of them, they’ve killed some of us. We’re propping up a gangster government run by a drug lord AND NOW we’re negotiating with the enemy. Said negotiations will result in releasing enemy combatants and a swift exit with our tail behind our legs.

Fast forward 5 years and this is going to look like a horrific misadventure.

As for the Marines pissing on the corpse. Yes, it is against the UCMJ and there should be some sort of light reprimand officially. The boy who shot and published the video should be dishonorably discharged.

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Regardless of your feelings about those Marines’ behavior you have to laugh at the Taliban’s indignation over brutality and arrogance.

It’s like Nancy Pelosi lecturing about corruption and….

Oh, yeah. – RDuke on January 13, 2012 at 9:18 AM

The brutality of the Taliban is well documented. This is not brutal behavior. It could have been those Marines on the ground after the fire fight. I agree that it should not have been photographed and put on the Internet. That was stupid. Abu Grab was a totally different situation. And, those in charge of the prison were duly punished.

SC.Charlie on January 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Just imagine if they did that to our soldiers. Enough said. – Gall on January 13, 2012 at 9:20 AM

I would not like it. But I would expect it. This is war, not a football game. The brutality of the Taliban toward there own people is well documented. They stone to death gays. Cut off noses of women. Summarily execute those people who don’t bow down to them deeply enough. And, God help anyone caught with a Bible.

SC.Charlie on January 13, 2012 at 9:43 AM

OK, lets get it out the way that this is obviously against regulations and not condoned in any way by the leadership of the Marine Corps. Secondly, it was incredibly stupid of the Marines involved to have it recorded for posterity.

That said, anyone who believes this hasn’t happend in past wars or that this is the first time it has happened in OIF or OEF is fooling themselves.

If you read E.B. Sledge “With the Old Breed on Peleliu and Okinawa” (one of the books inspiring “The Pacific” series) you will see where he recounts the story of one Marine that searched out a body of a Japanese each time he needed to relieve himself and pissed in their mouths. There is also a famous picture of a Marine pissing into the open skull of a Japanese soldier. (Probably the inspiration for the scene in The Pacific where the Marine is throwing pebbles into the open skull of a Japanese soldier)

This stuff happens. Particularly when you are fighting an enemy that is as vicious and debased as the Taliban. In the Gulf in 91 we had amnesty barrels placed around the camps in Saudi Arabia after the war. The intent was for Marines to get rid of stuff that it was forbidden to take home as souvenirs. This mostly applied to weapons and ordnance. However, in one barrel at our camp we found an arm. It was pretty dried out but it’s still hard to believe anyone thought that would be a good souvenir.

It’s hard to get all bent out of shape over something that we all know is happening. No one encourages it, but it does occur.

Of course our Information Operations guys are all pissing themselves because of the pictures. But, the bottom line on IO in OEF is that we are not convincing anyone in Afghanistan that we are good guys. Islam and our culture are the anthesis of one another and until we directly confront the evil that is the core of that religion and provide the populace an alternative to it we will never succeed in swaying public opinion.

SoonerMarine on January 13, 2012 at 9:43 AM

I’m with the Sgt. Major. Let’s see if we have this PC down right. Marines pissing on dead enemy, bad. Ows crapping on cop car, good. Mmkay.

Kissmygrits on January 13, 2012 at 9:44 AM

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM

It’s hard responding to generalizations.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Liberals sleep secure at night because better and rougher men than they stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Bevan on January 13, 2012 at 9:50 AM

WHY WHY WHY did these idiots videotape this? Kids today just don’t get it.

Personally, what happens on the battlefield stays there. Our enemies play by a different set of rules. But WHY WHY WHY didn’t these knuckleheads learn from Abu Ghraib?

the_souse on January 13, 2012 at 9:50 AM

Stuff like this would never happen normally or exceptionally on the battlefield, unless the dead enemy had really “pi..ed” off the marines by their actions. However, I fear that now, Hollywood tells them this is normal, good, and funny. Then they jump all over theh soldiers when lthey do it.

This is a really small deal.

Old Country Boy on January 13, 2012 at 10:01 AM

You people whining about how immoral the marines’ actions were and how we “don’t do this” and how our soldiers have dishonored themselves are going to make me vomit. You sound like that idiot Shep Smith when he shouted that we “don’t do torture”. The only reason the soldiers should be reprimanded at all is that it was a breach of discipline and because it was videoed and released. Immoral? Please. How is it immoral? We should be sticking thir heads on pikes and lining their “streets” with them. This PC nonsense is making it harder to win wars and is getting more of our guys killed. There is only one thing these brutes understand: making their short lives hell and giving them piss when they die, not virgins.

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:05 AM

It’s hard responding to generalizations.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM

And predictions. We will leave eventually and we’ll just have to wait and see if what we’ve left behind is materially different to what we found.

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Just thought of a good pun involving the phrase ” mohammad, peace be upon him” but I think I might get banned if I say it.

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:07 AM

This is a really small deal.

Old Country Boy on January 13, 2012 at 10:01 AM

No, this is what encourages blowback. We’re doing more to create terrorists than we are in stopping them.

Dante on January 13, 2012 at 10:08 AM

I’m all OUTRAGED out.

PappyD61 on January 13, 2012 at 7:30 AM

~~~~~~~~~

Yep, same here. We’re not like our enemies, these marines should be reprimanded in some way, but I’m sick of hearing from our “rulers” who are falling over themselves to suck up to the real barbarians…now it’s becoming a contest, who can deplore this in the most strident way (I have Panetta in the lead myself). So now we’ll hear more from those outraged Taliban fighters, who have already told us how barbaric these wild Americans are.

ellifint on January 13, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Sounds like your comment is directed at me?

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 10:10 AM

And predictions. We will leave eventually and we’ll just have to wait and see if what we’ve left behind is materially different to what we found.

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 10:06 AM

No one can predict the future. You may very well be right. But as far as having accomplished nothing, that’s your opinion. Nothing more. But like I said, it’s hard responding to someone who generally, feels the way you do. I could cite battles, campaigns, inroads made with the Afghani tribal leaders and the actual Afghani People till I’m blue in the face. But if you generally think the war is folly, not much there really to discuss.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

If the local government that we are backing is outraged at this behavior, I am ready to pack up and leave today. I guess that they will perfectly comfortable with the saintly behavior of the Taliban when they gain control of the government once again.

SC.Charlie on January 13, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Sounds like your comment is directed at me?

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 10:10 AM

There are multiple people it was directed at, but yes.

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:24 AM

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 7:42 AM

Great post.

McDuck on January 13, 2012 at 10:25 AM

There are multiple people it was directed at, but yes.

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:24 AM

What portion of my comment was so outside your opinion that it would make you want to vomit?

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 10:25 AM

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM

LoL

annoyinglittletwerp on January 13, 2012 at 10:30 AM

There are multiple people it was directed at, but yes.

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:24 AM

What portion of my comment was so outside your opinion that it would make you want to vomit?

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Like I said, it was at the whole attitude of the marines’ actions being “immoral” deserving “courts martial” over their actions, “dishonored” etc… I don’t remember which ones you threw in and I have to run to the doctor. Nothing personal. I am just sick to vomiting over the PC approach to warfare. Optics and discipline are definitely considerations, but “immoral”? We don’t ?do this”? Please.

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:31 AM

We don’t ?do this”? Please.

Malachi45 on January 13, 2012 at 10:31 AM

And you think we should? Sorry to disappoint, but the preponderance of your military forces would very much look down on this behavior.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 10:37 AM

The USMC has to get control over their snipers. Otherwise they degrade into this (and worse) in brutal combat conditions for too long without good leadership. They’re among the best trained hunters in the world, but even the best military can be defeated by the best propaganda.

In the early 80s I worked with a Vietnam era Recon Marine who returned to the Corps as an intelligence analyst. He confided in me and showed me a tattered photo of him standing over a body with something stuffed into the dead man’s mouth. He said it was a playing card that was his unit’s signature, meant to frighten the enemy. Okay, a small violation… but he also claimed that behind the card was man’s genitals. It’s that kind of crap that builds through group dynamics until they think so little of it that it’s photographed and shared. Then the most evil organizations have what they need to justify themselves and defeat the most disciplined military in the world that just allowed itself to slip a little around some edges.

Yea, put the Marines in jail and end their commanders’ careers, but the damage is done. The Islamist use things like this for all it’s worth.

elfman on January 13, 2012 at 10:37 AM

A Thought Experiment: Recall, devout Muslim scholars have no qualms proudly declaring the salutary effects of drinking prophet urine.

The Fatwa: Sheik Ali Gomaa: Urine Fatwa

According to Egypt’s Grand Mufti, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, drinking the urine of Muhammad is deemed a great blessing. What, they have a lot of this stuff lying around, going to waste or something? Remember, Muhammad never claimed that he himself was divine—so why does his piss have magic properties? Failing to pass the laugh test with Muslim scholars, Mufti later recanted, saying it was only his “personal opinion”.

Source: “A Fatwa Free-for-All in the Islamic World”, New York Times, Michael Slackman Published: Monday, June 11, 2007

Meanwhile, our elitist minders constantly remind us that serial Gitmo semen/piss/feces cocktail flinging is all a case of Islam “misunderstanding.”

So which is it?

Were our Marines merely misunderstanding devout Muslim observance? Or should they have reciprocated “tu quoque” and flung feces, too?

Terp Mole on January 13, 2012 at 10:38 AM

The one big mistake these Marines made was not getting an NEA grant for performance art first.

whatcat on January 13, 2012 at 10:39 AM

The soldiers involved should have dropped their pants and defecated on these dead Taliban scum as well. I’m tired of the pissing and moaning from people stateside who worry more about how well we treat the enemy rather than focusing on destroying them.

zoyclem on January 13, 2012 at 7:14 AM

Charming.

Look, while there certainly are leftists over here who will take advantage of this for their own political purposes, it is a fact that many of the people who are upset about this are genuinely concerned about how it will create problems for the people who are over there and hurt what our nation is trying to do.

McDuck on January 13, 2012 at 10:39 AM

But if you generally think the war is folly, not much there really to discuss.

Not generally, specifically. But I agree, if you think the tactical achievements to date will result in an strategically desirable outcome then there really is nothing to discuss.

We’ll see.

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 10:41 AM

The Marines should not have done this, as others have mentioned, but in the larger scheme of things, it’s not important. While it was wrong, the Taliban were, I assume, trying to kill the Marines, so being “pissed” at them is no real suprise. What does suprise me is how much angst is being shown for the desicration of the bodies, and not the fact that they were killed!

Really, this should be a slap on the wrist for the Marines, and tell them not to do this anymore.

415woman1 on January 13, 2012 at 10:43 AM

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 10:41 AM

You gave no specifics. For instance, during OEF 10/11, what did we fail to accomplish in the Marjah Offensive?

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 10:50 AM

This is a non-scandal by armchair generals.

NickDeringer on January 12, 2012 at 10:43 PM

Find one real American general who agrees with you.

elfman on January 13, 2012 at 10:51 AM

My new signature for my email just became:

‘War is h***, s*** happens and trophies get taken,’

Seems like it would make for a good campaign slogan as well. That will get a non-wuss candidate some votes in America.

sdbatboy on January 13, 2012 at 10:51 AM

I find it pretty F*cking irritating how the media is in bed with the bad guys. They will show the picts of GIs’ doing this but will they show the video of nick berge being beheaded? Will they show the video of the 9-11 jumpers? Will they show the video of the taliban setting off an IED with a child standing infront of it? Will they show the rape videos of how the taliban will turn young women into homicide bombers?
Hell no they wont. I could give two sh*ts what our military does in war, as long as they win.

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

John Stuart-Mill

ColdWarrior57 on January 13, 2012 at 10:57 AM

He’s a Marine who just returned from the Sandbox.
He deserves a LOT of slack.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 13, 2012 at 1:10 AM

Not at the expense of truth.

VorDaj on January 13, 2012 at 2:39 AM

What truth are you referring to? That was a really bizarre statement. I am really taken aback by a lot of these comments I’m seeing here. This act by these Marines completely deteriorates good order and discipline in their unit and the Marine Corps as a whole, ESPECIALLY if it was not punished. Marines are taught the Corps Values of Honor, Courage and Commitment. The Marine Corps exemplifies honor and when a Marine does something dishonorable to himself and/or the Corps he should be punished accordingly. A lot of the comments on here are making me think a lot of Americans don’t hold our Marines to the standards I believed they did. Well we Marines WILL uphold the standard and there is nothing pc about doing that.

RightXBrigade on January 13, 2012 at 11:01 AM

You gave no specifics. For instance, during OEF 10/11, what did we fail to accomplish in the Marjah Offensive?

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 10:50 AM

A tactical military success?

What is the current state of play geo-politically?

Have the Taliban been routed?
Is the Afghan ‘government’ corrupt to the core and reliant solely on ‘aid’ to function?
Is the Afghan government still in bed with Pakistani ‘militants’?
Is Afghanistan still the world’s largest producer of opium that is sold to finance terrorism and enrich gangsters? Opium that is refined into heroin which is largely consumed by western nations, including the US, with all the horror associated with it?

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM

whatcat The one big mistake these Marines made was not getting an NEA grant for performance art first.

exactly …that and forgetting to genuflect before the ACLU.

Terp Mole on January 13, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Re cHillary’s outrage. I didn’t know that the DoD was in her swim lane. It’s almost as if she was the CinC or something

AH_C on January 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM

You’re asking me questions to something you said you could offer specifics on.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM

What a bunch of morons are running this country. Who cares if we piss on a few dead a$$ holes like these. I won’t lose any sleep over it. Semper Fi.

rjulio on January 13, 2012 at 11:21 AM

What a bunch of morons are running this country. Who cares if we piss on a few dead a$$ holes like these. I won’t lose any sleep over it. Semper Fi.

rjulio on January 13, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Of course you won’t lose any sleep. You aren’t in country right now with millions of pissed off Muslims all around your FOB because of a juvenile stunt. Sleep well buddy, we’ll continue to protect your ignorant behind.

RightXBrigade on January 13, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Hey RightXbrigade, I had plenty of pissed off gooks around me back in 1969. I would treat the freaking muslims the same way we treated the gooks, piss them off and then kill them.

rjulio on January 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM

NSFW – Content Warning

… but funny.

Action Figure Therapy

Yakko77 on January 13, 2012 at 11:40 AM

You’re asking me questions to something you said you could offer specifics on.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Taliban Routed?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/us-usa-afghanistan-idUSTRE7BI03I20111219

Afghan Government corrupt?

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-10-11/news/30287639_1_karzai-aide-anti-corruption-kapisa-province

Google is your friend.

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Google is your friend.

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2012 at 11:43 AM

If that’s your only frame of reference for your opinion of the specific successes of the war, I guess Google might be. I’ll rely on my experiences and involvement.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 11:45 AM

I’m with you on that,BigAlSouth. And I’ll stand right beside you, proudly, doing it! And a big ‘hoorah’ for the guys in the video!

“Piss on ‘em.

The Media, Panetta, Clinton and Obama. Who did you think I meant?”

BigAlSouth on January 13, 2012 at 9:07 AM

boogieboy on January 13, 2012 at 11:46 AM

I can think of a few other things that rate higher on my outrage meter. Like the neighbor’s dog pooping on my lawn.

Brainless liberals.

hachiban on January 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM

RightXBrigade on January 13, 2012 at 11:33 AM

You offer great comments. Stay safe.

hawkdriver on January 13, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Of course our Information Operations guys are all pissing themselves because of the pictures. But, the bottom line on IO in OEF is that we are not convincing anyone in Afghanistan that we are good guys. Islam and our culture are the anthesis of one another and until we directly confront the evil that is the core of that religion and provide the populace an alternative to it we will never succeed in swaying public opinion.

SoonerMarine on January 13, 2012 at 9:43 AM

All of it spot on. There may be laws and order to maintain general discipline, but sometimes they go overboard with trying to control human nature.

The point is we ask these young people to go to a foreign land, risk their life and then tell them that no matter the effect of killing and almost being killed, there is only one way to cope and that is per the regs. But to say that this is somehow ‘immoral’, I call BS. And to top it off, no spoils taking? Puleeze. Taking spoils is an age old tradition of compensating the soldier for risking his life.

Offensive, perhaps, but NOT immoral. Calling it immoral does not make it so, no matter how often that lie is repeated.

Phooey. People have different ways of coping, and I for one will only knock their stupidity for recording it. What happens on a battlefield stays there, and if shared, only personally and confidentially, not blasted to the world via youtube, facebook etc.

Imagine if Civil War/WWI/WWII/Korea/Vietnam soldiers had pocket cameras/video cams, we’d have evidence of all kinds of booty taking and ‘corpse abuse’.

I’d be fine with simple administrative punishment to just curb their enthusiasm, but definitely against ruining a soldier’s life/career over something so trite as p!ssing on a dead enemy.

I’m also mad at feckless politicians unwilling to conduct a war expeditously — go in, kill every thing in sight until the enemy unconditionally surrenders in short order. Like socialism, a sanitized and collateral-casuality free ROE is just an utopian nonsense.

All the above notwithstanding, there is a difference when it comes to war crimes. A war crime would be things like My Lai, Bataan death march, concentration camps or deliberately targeting nothing but a group of civillians — Paging Lt J F’n Kerry. Running sex-rings in Bosnia etc.

But blasting the enemy that happens to be sniping from a mosque or just happens to have a bunch of civillians around is just a tragedy, not war crime, let alone immoral. And things like letting the enemy know that we’re smearing lard on bullets is neither immoral or a war-crime. the intent is to demoralize the enemy and make them hesitate taking a bullet.

The ROEs that we’ve implemented in the run-up and since have done nothing but prolong the war and cost us more soldiers than necessary at the very least by half.

AH_C on January 13, 2012 at 11:52 AM

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