The Santorum “big government conservative” debate continues

posted at 11:00 am on January 7, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

I seem to remember a time when “big government” and “conservatism” were pretty much mutually exclusive phrases. But the lines have been blurring on that for a long time now, a point which came to light significantly during the administration of George W. Bush with the expansion of Medicare and NCLB. This distracted and disillusioned many conservatives, along with the accelerated rate of spending. (It was nowhere near the current pace, obviously, but still enough to put many fiscal conservatives off their feed.)

At the Daily Caller, Matt Lewis highlights this debate and how it has swung the spotlight onto Rick Santorum. An unlikely pair of debaters are squaring off on the subject, too. In this case it’s Rush Limbaugh and Erick Erickson. First up… Limbaugh.

Now there’s a mantra — there’s mantra out there — and it’s even now spread to CBS News: “Will Santorum’s big government conservatism resonate?” It’s everywhere, folks. “Santorum’s big government conservatism.” Have you ever heard “big government conservatism” associated with Rick Santorum before today? Have you? Have you?

Lewis responds that yes, in fact, he has heard it before. And it’s not in terms of wanting the government to take a hand in matters such as pro-life issues or immigration. It’s about spending and entitlement programs, as I noted above. The response from Erickson:

I’m rather tired of all the people who don’t like Romney trying to claim Rick Santorum is not a big government conservative, or not a pro-life statist. I would support him before I would support Romney too, but I have no intention of giving up ideological and intellectual consistency in the name of beating Mitt Romney.

Rick Santorum is a pro-life statist. He is. You will have to deal with it. He is a big government conservative. Santorum is right on social issues, but has never let his love of social issues stand in the way of the creeping expansion of the welfare state. In fact, he has been complicit in the expansion of the welfare state.

I think the main point of contention here is precisely how we are to define “big government.” (Which, for some reason, always summons up visions of Bill Clinton giving a speech for me.) We can debate the dollars and cents at the bottom of the column, but that’s a somewhat different argument than asking what the proper role of the federal government is. Immigration and national security are obviously the province of Washington. (Current appearances to the contrary not withstanding.) But the expansion of entitlement programs is going to be a hard sell with conservatives as not being a big government position.

Of course, all of this amounts to the type of sniping and attacks you’d expect to see during the primary season. It’s also not something that’s likely to hurt Santorum much if he manages to win the nomination, as those aren’t positions that are going to scare off moderates and independents.


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If I’m not mistaken, Perry received federal subsidies to help secure a lot of jobs for Texas.

Big government statist?

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Santorum opposed the National Right to Work Act.

Santorum also voted to retain the 1930s-era Davis-Bacon Act that forces taxpayers to pay union wages in government-funded construction and gives Big Labor an unfair advantage over non-union companies and workers (“On the Motion to Table (motion to table Kennedy Amendment No. 4031 to S.Amdt. 4000 to S.Con.Res. 57).

This guy is a religious union Democrat who likes guns, a Reagan Democrat.

haner on January 7, 2012 at 2:58 PM

Haner,

So the RomneyCare guy is more conservvative than the guy who opposed the National Rights to Work Act?

Why doesn’t the excuse that he was in a blue pro-union state work for Santorum, as it seems to work for Romney?

Romney was as liberal as any Democrat gov. in Mass, but we are told by wise men that he didn’t believe in that stuff and it was just about tricking Democrats.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:01 PM

Santorum is an insult to the Tea Party and Commonsense Constitutional Conservatives like Sarah Palin and Ron Paul. Rick Santorum is a relic of the failed George W. Bush era of compassionate conservatism. Santorum belongs in the trash with the idea of compassionate conservatism.

CoolChange80 on January 7, 2012 at 3:02 PM

If I’m not mistaken, Perry received federal subsidies to help secure a lot of jobs for Texas.

Big government statist?

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 2:53 PM

No, it’s not the same and you know it. The stimulus was shoved down our throats against our will, but it would be foolish for a state to reject money they paid into the system or are indebted to just to spite their faces or appear pure. Perry opposed the spending, but as Governor had an obligation to protect his state’s interests. that means accepting it’s share of stimulus money. that is a far cry from voting for giant unconstitutional federal welfare programs like Medicare Part D or unconstitutional power grabs like NCLB. There is a difference between doing what you can with unjust laws like Perry did, and making those unjust laws like Santorum did.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:03 PM

What is your point…be more clear and specific.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 2:46 PM

When I first read your posts, you were so polite and affable. But now you are using words such “Dude.” No problem with that but it didn’t sound anything like your much earlier posts. Then you say you are not anti Perry, but then you say hate the guy. Walter Mitty is a famous James Thurber character who seemed to have two personalities (on purpose.)

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:04 PM

Oh, so it’s ok to take federal subsidies that are unconstitutional and unjust, as long as you didn’t make the law yourself. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:05 PM

his own statements to the National Catholic Reporter opposing the JFK position promising separation of church and state.

Dr. Tesla’s been doing a great job in the face of the usual suspects and tired arguments but I thought he could use some help. So now Santorum has somehow violated the apparently unassailable position taken by that great Catholic JFK when he pandered to the Protestant brain trust in order to win the 1960 election…I don’t think so. First, let’s remember Kennedy, like his brother Teddy, used his Catholic faith when it suit his purposes and abandoned it when it didn’t. Also remember Kennedy’s Houston speech was not directed at the general principle of seperation of church and state, which is a phony principle to begin with, but at the seperation of a Catholic leader from the directives of the Catholic clergy in general and Vatican/Pope in particular. Those Protestant leaders no more believed in the current aetheist definition of “seperation” as they believed the United States was not a Christian nation.

If you’re worried that Santorum is too “Catholic” try reading some Catholic blogs where self righteous Catholic libs claim that Santorum is anything but a faithful Catholic…he’s wrong on just war, he’s wrong on pre emptive war, he’s wrong on torture, he’s wrong on welfare for the poor, etc. But they ignore that all those issues are prudential in nature, open to legitimate disagreement and on those issues that are not, primarily life, he’s a more orthodox Catholic than most of them.

ironmarshal on January 7, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Haner,

So the RomneyCare guy is more conservvative than the guy who opposed the National Rights to Work Act?

Why doesn’t the excuse that he was in a blue pro-union state work for Santorum, as it seems to work for Romney?

Romney was as liberal as any Democrat gov. in Mass, but we are told by wise men that he didn’t believe in that stuff and it was just about tricking Democrats.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:01 PM

I don’t like defending Romney, but Romneycare in Mass is Massachusetts problem, not mine. The Union shilling and big government programs that Santorum supports ARE my problem because they were done at the federal level. That offends me far more than a bad state law.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:06 PM

Oh, so it’s ok to take federal subsidies that are unconstitutional and unjust, as long as you didn’t make the law yourself. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Actually, yes. More than that, it would be stupid and negligent for a governor not to do so.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:07 PM

No

I “hate” the redneck Perry supports who are resorting to calling Santorum “statist” because their Preferred Candidate is doing so horrible.

I don’t think we need to eat our own. I have some problems with some aspects of Santorum but he’s been praised by fiscal groups like Club for Growth. I don’t think it’s logical they would praise a statist.

Lot of Perry shills wants to conflate Huckabee with Santorum, but Santorum isn’t a liberal Christian like Huckabee. He’s not a pro-tax, pro-go easy on criminal, global warming nut like Huckabee.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:07 PM

Not to mention his bizarre comparison of homosexuality to bestiality.

Dr Evil

There’s nothing bizarre about it at all. It’s pretty sad when so-called conservatives use liberal talking points.

xblade on January 7, 2012 at 3:09 PM

don’t like defending Romney, but Romneycare in Mass is Massachusetts problem, not mine. The Union shilling and big government programs that Santorum supports ARE my problem because they were done at the federal level. That offends me far more than a bad state law.

Mass was a horrible state law, and I don’t want to entrust the romneycare guy with the mission of repealing ObamaCare, and he’s already implied that there are some good parts to Obamacare. I don’t want some guy who just going to tweak it a little, I want
it stripped.

Santorum has been solid on lower taxes and welfare reform. He’s not big government guy on fiscal issues.

He just wants to round up and jail gay people because paranoid gay people say so. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:10 PM

What cracks me up about gay activist is when they make out being gay as perfectly normal. I’m all down with the tolerance for gays thing but to say homosexuality is physiologically, biologically normal is just not true. Men and women were meant to be heterosexuals. That’s why most are.

Just because homosexuality occurs with some frequency doesn’t mean it’s “normal”. That’s like saying epilepsy is normal.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM

I “hate” the redneck Perry supports who are resorting to calling Santorum “statist” because their Preferred Candidate is doing so horrible.

Politics does seem to bring out the worst in all of us. I do not want to vote for Santorum, Paul or Romney, but I don’t “hate” their supporters. You probably don’t either. Take it easy. November is several months away. Save some of your venom for the opposition in the fall.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM

o

I “hate” the redneck Perry supports who are resorting to calling Santorum “statist” because their Preferred Candidate is doing so horrible.

I don’t think we need to eat our own. I have some problems with some aspects of Santorum but he’s been praised by fiscal groups like Club for Growth. I don’t think it’s logical they would praise a statist.

Lot of Perry shills wants to conflate Huckabee with Santorum, but Santorum isn’t a liberal Christian like Huckabee. He’s not a pro-tax, pro-go easy on criminal, global warming nut like Huckabee.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:07 PM

I agree that it is going to far to call Santorum a statist. I particularly don’t like Erickson calling him a “Pro Life Statist”. I think he is a big government, compassionate conservative like Bush. And while I believe he supports some things you could characterize as statist, I don’t think that is his intent and was mainstream for a lot of people until recently. I supported medicare Part D once upon a time and I would have bristled at being called a statist.

Calling Santorum a statist plays into the hands of the left and equates him with people like Obama, which is unacceptable to me.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM

don’t like defending Romney, but Romneycare in Mass is Massachusetts problem, not mine. The Union shilling and big government programs that Santorum supports ARE my problem because they were done at the federal level. That offends me far more than a bad state law.

Mass was a horrible state law, and I don’t want to entrust the romneycare guy with the mission of repealing ObamaCare, and he’s already implied that there are some good parts to Obamacare. I don’t want some guy who just going to tweak it a little, I want
it stripped.

Santorum has been solid on lower taxes and welfare reform. He’s not big government guy on fiscal issues.

He just wants to round up and jail gay people because paranoid gay people say so. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:10 PM

Oh, don’t get me wrong. Romneycare is a real deal breaker for me. Just pointing out that it was a state issue (though I think Romney is insincere about his states rights excuse). Medicare Part D was a huge socialized medicine law and that was for all of us, in every state.

And yes, the fear mongering about Santorum’s views on gays is pathetic.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Politics does seem to bring out the worst in all of us. I do not want to vote for Santorum, Paul or Romney, but I don’t “hate” their supporters. You probably don’t either. Take it easy. November is several months away. Save some of your venom for the opposition in the fall.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM

I think you are absurd. What venom have I spewed on here?

I’m the guy defending Santy from the absurd charge he’s a statist by nutty Perry supporters like Erickson. That man is a complete hick and attention whore and I’ve love to run him out of the conservative movement.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:18 PM

I “hate” the redneck Perry supports who are resorting to calling Santorum “statist” because their Preferred Candidate is doing so horrible.

Politics does seem to bring out the worst in all of us. I do not want to vote for Santorum, Paul or Romney, but I don’t “hate” their supporters. You probably don’t either. Take it easy. November is several months away. Save some of your venom for the opposition in the fall.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM

It will be nice when we are all back on the same team, won’t it?

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:19 PM

Politics does seem to bring out the worst in all of us. I do not want to vote for Santorum, Paul or Romney, but I don’t “hate” their supporters. You probably don’t either. Take it easy. November is several months away. Save some of your venom for the opposition in the fall.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM

I think you are absurd. What venom have I spewed on here?

I’m the guy defending Santy from the absurd charge he’s a statist by nutty Perry supporters like Erickson. That man is a complete hick and attention whore and I’ve love to run him out of the conservative movement.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:18 PM

I don’t think he meant that you were being venomous. I think it was figure of speech. I could be wrong.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Though, Dr, Tesla, the “redneck” thing isn’t exactly nice to say. Npt that it really offends me though. I find it funny when I’m called a redneck.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:22 PM

Primaries are about what you think and supporting the candidate you like best, it’s not about being on a team.

Erick Erickson doesn’t speak for most conservatives anymore than a guy like David Frum does.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:22 PM

Erick Erickson called one of the judges on the Supreme Court a goat-f—– something.

I think that makes him a redneck. I defintely don’t think he’s the kind of guy you want associated with the ideology you support. :)

Others disagree.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:23 PM

As a pro life statist Santorum is probably an expert on abortion statistics.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:27 PM

Erick Erickson called one of the judges on the Supreme Court a goat-f—– something.

What is wrong with that characterization? Is it the lack of respect for the office or referencing the wrong species?

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Erick Erickson called one of the judges on the Supreme Court a goat-f—– something.

I think that makes him a redneck. I defintely don’t think he’s the kind of guy you want associated with the ideology you support. :)

Others disagree.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:23 PM

Did he? Ha! that’s funny. Git’r Dun, Erick!

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:31 PM

I think you are absurd. What venom have I spewed on here?
I’m the guy defending Santy from the absurd charge he’s a statist by nutty Perry supporters like Erickson. That man is a complete hick and attention whore and I’ve love to run him out of the conservative movement.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:18 PM

I don’t think he meant that you were being venomous. I think it was figure of speech. I could be wrong.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Thanks for the interference call. So many male posters, everyone assumes all newbies are male. I am female, and maybe that is why I think some of Tesla’s language is over the top. He can have his opinion, and I can have mine.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:31 PM

As a pro life statist Santorum is probably an expert on abortion statistics.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:27 PM

No, he’s not. His abortion positions are the same as any pro-life person’s and being pro-life does not make one a statist.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:32 PM

If Governor Perry is given the opportunity to accomplish for our country what he has accomplished in Texas, there may be hope that we step back from the brink of European socialism.

Rio2010 on January 7, 2012 at 2:47 PM

BINGO!

workingclass artist on January 7, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Thanks for the interference call. So many male posters, everyone assumes all newbies are male. I am female, and maybe that is why I think some of Tesla’s language is over the top. He can have his opinion, and I can have mine.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:31 PM

Much obliged.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:33 PM

Thanks for the interference call. So many male posters, everyone assumes all newbies are male. I am female, and maybe that is why I think some of Tesla’s language is over the top. He can have his opinion, and I can have mine.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:31 PM

Oops. Much obliged, Ma’am.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Thanks for the interference call. So many male posters, everyone assumes all newbies are male. I am female, and maybe that is why I think some of Tesla’s language is over the top. He can have his opinion, and I can have mine.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:31 PM

What is this thing about females and language? Is there some genetic characteristic that makes females more sensitive to a small number of words?

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:34 PM

No, he’s not. His abortion positions are the same as any pro-life person’s and being pro-life does not make one a statist.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Santorum is a federal guy…it’s all he knows.

He’s never run a thing…no executive experience just a team player.

workingclass artist on January 7, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Women are the ones who can’t handle a conservative calling Obama a socialist even though Obama is a socialist, so they go vote for Obama because they feel sorry for him.

Romney wants their vote. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Thanks for the interference call. So many male posters, everyone assumes all newbies are male. I am female, and maybe that is why I think some of Tesla’s language is over the top. He can have his opinion, and I can have mine.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:31 PM

What is this thing about females and language? Is there some genetic characteristic that makes females more sensitive to a small number of words?

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Yes.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:36 PM

If Governor Perry is given the opportunity to accomplish for our country what he has accomplished in Texas, there may be hope that we step back from the brink of European socialism.

Rio2010 on January 7, 2012 at 2:47 PM

BINGO!

workingclass artist on January 7, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Yeah, it will be less like Europe and more like Mexico. Muy bueno!

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM

I have a hard time believing that Perry actually “runs” stuff.

In my mind, Santorum just seems like the brighter of the two. I’d probably rather have Santy run stuff than Perry.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM

No, he’s not. His abortion positions are the same as any pro-life person’s and being pro-life does not make one a statist.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Santorum is a federal guy…it’s all he knows.

He’s never run a thing…no executive experience just a team player.

workingclass artist on January 7, 2012 at 3:35 PM

I agree. I just don’t think he is a pro-life statist. he is too big government, pro-union, protectionist for my taste.

Go Perry!

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM

What is this thing about females and language? Is there some genetic characteristic that makes females more sensitive to a small number of words?

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Yes.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:36 PM

I just love detailed answers!

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:38 PM

I have a hard time believing that Perry actually “runs” stuff.

In my mind, Santorum just seems like the brighter of the two. I’d probably rather have Santy run stuff than Perry.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Let’s face it: Perry is a retard.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:39 PM

I have a hard time believing that Perry actually “runs” stuff.

In my mind, Santorum just seems like the brighter of the two. I’d probably rather have Santy run stuff than Perry.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM

That may or not be true about Santorum being brighter. We don’t know. But he has never run anything and that we do know. And he has a history of supporting bigger government. That we also know. Perry has run stuff, a lot. He is also a small government, 10th Amendment federalist. That we know as well.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:40 PM

What is this thing about females and language? Is there some genetic characteristic that makes females more sensitive to a small number of words?

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Yes.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:36 PM

I just love detailed answers!

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:38 PM

What exactly were you expecting? You asked a yes or no question, you got a yes or no answer.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:41 PM

I’d take a retarded Perry over an Obama, but “executive experience” is overrated and I get kind of tired of being limited to to certain candidates because many Republican voters get all excited about that.

I think a case can be made that Perry is pretty big government in a lot of instances. But the REd Staters don’t want to go there.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:42 PM

I have a hard time believing that Perry actually “runs” stuff.

In my mind, Santorum just seems like the brighter of the two. I’d probably rather have Santy run stuff than Perry.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Let’s face it: Perry is a retard.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:39 PM

Oh I think you know that’s not so. Even if you think he isn’t as sharp as some, he is clearly not retarded. That sort of talk makes you seem very douchy.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:42 PM

What is this thing about females and language? Is there some genetic characteristic that makes females more sensitive to a small number of words?

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Most females do not like the word “whore.” Maybe it is genetic. Maybe it is a careless use of the language.

Anyway, the playoffs are about to be on, and I have aggravated some of you enough. Have a good rest of the day.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:43 PM

No, Perry hides behind the 10th admendment when he’s trying to deflect criticism of his mandate, the Dream act, and the other non-conservative things he did.

Pro-life statist?

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:43 PM

What exactly were you expecting? You asked a yes or no question, you got a yes or no answer.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:41 PM

I wasn’t expecting anything in particular.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:43 PM

I’d take a retarded Perry over an Obama, but “executive experience” is overrated and I get kind of tired of being limited to to certain candidates because many Republican voters get all excited about that.

I think a case can be made that Perry is pretty big government in a lot of instances. But the REd Staters don’t want to go there.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:42 PM

You can make a case that Perry likes big government at the federal level? I think you bluster.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:45 PM

What is this thing about females and language? Is there some genetic characteristic that makes females more sensitive to a small number of words?

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Most females do not like the word “whore.” Maybe it is genetic. Maybe it is a careless use of the language.

Anyway, the playoffs are about to be on, and I have aggravated some of you enough. Have a good rest of the day.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Yes, you put your finger on it. Most of the offensive language usage winds up being derogatory towards females.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:45 PM

You can make a case that Perry likes big government at the federal level? I think you bluster.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:45 PM

I think if he didn’t have a problem with it at the state level, he won’t have a problem with it at the national level.

Hiding behind the 10th admendment is what all governors do, Romney does it with RomneyCare.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Let’s face it: Perry is a retard.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:39 PM

Oh I think you know that’s not so. Even if you think he isn’t as sharp as some, he is clearly not retarded. That sort of talk makes you seem very douchy.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:42 PM

For a member of the Board of Supervisors of a small county, he would be a genius. For a Presidential candidate, well let’s just say he is not.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Perry’s not all that smart, but he’s also not Obama, who is a big government fool.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:49 PM

No, Perry hides behind the 10th admendment when he’s trying to deflect criticism of his mandate, the Dream act, and the other non-conservative things he did.

Pro-life statist?

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Hide? Do you have some evidence that his federalist principles are merely for convenience? Because he has a record of fighting the feds over a number of issues.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:50 PM

What exactly were you expecting? You asked a yes or no question, you got a yes or no answer.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:41 PM

I wasn’t expecting anything in particular.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:43 PM

then you can’t be disappointed? : )

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Hide? Do you have some evidence that his federalist principles are merely for convenience? Because he has a record of fighting the feds over a number of issues.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:50 PM

No, the point is, whenever governors get criticism, they make a big deal about states rights and insist they wouldn’t do the same thing at the national level. You won’t find out if they are telling the truth until after you make them president. :)

Big government at the state is still big government.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Perry’s not all that smart, but he’s also not Obama, who is a big government fool.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Obama is not a fool but a committed Marxist with Islamic sympathies who luckily for us doesn’t have much executive experience. Perry is a provincial lightweight with many good instincts.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:52 PM

You can make a case that Perry likes big government at the federal level? I think you bluster.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:45 PM

I think if he didn’t have a problem with it at the state level, he won’t have a problem with it at the national level.

Hiding behind the 10th admendment is what all governors do, Romney does it with RomneyCare.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Except Perry has a record of federalist behavior and advocacy. Romney, does not. For example, Romney claims the fedrealism defense on Romneycare, but then turns around and attacks Perry for proposing we transfer Social Security to the states. That’s a clear contradiction. Do you have any of those to show that Perry is not really a federalist?

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:53 PM

then you can’t be disappointed? : )

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Yes.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Ok,

So if Perry is president, he’ll be cool with some states violating rights…b/c hey, it’s done at the state level? Just a state experiment? :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Hide? Do you have some evidence that his federalist principles are merely for convenience? Because he has a record of fighting the feds over a number of issues.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:50 PM

No, the point is, whenever governors get criticism, they make a big deal about states rights and insist they wouldn’t do the same thing at the national level. You won’t find out if they are telling the truth until after you make them president. :)

Big government at the state is still big government.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Well, Perry really hasn’t been a big government advocate at any level either, much less so than anyone running but Ron Paul. But you are assuming that his federalism is insincere and I say you have no evidence for that. And even if he was a big government guy at the state level, as long as he is a real federalist, that wouldn’t matter for the job he is audition for.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:56 PM

I think his federalism is sincere but also an excuse for his bad policy proposals in Texas.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Ok,

So if Perry is president, he’ll be cool with some states violating rights…b/c hey, it’s done at the state level? Just a state experiment? :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Well, I would put it this way: It’s not his problem. And it shouldn’t be. I don’t care if Vermont has socialized medicine. Why should I? As long as they don’t try to bring it to Florida it’s not my problem or, quite frankly, my business. Just like it’s not their business what I do in Florida. Same with the President. Not his job to police the states. Leave that to the voters in each state and the SCOTUS if appropriate. That’s federalism.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Well, your idea of federalism could be at odds with constitutionality and conservativism in many scenarios.

See, I do care that Romneycare was forced on people in Mass who didn’t support it. Because I’m for freedom over states rights to abuse freedom. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:01 PM

I think his federalism is sincere but also an excuse for his bad policy proposals in Texas.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Perhaps. But I really don’t think he’s done affected that many bad policies. I disagreed with him on in state tuition, though I understand why he supported it. I actually agreed with him on mandating the HPV vaccine as long as there was an opt out, which there was. I happened to think he went about it badly and he concedes that now.

But that’s not a very long list of bad policies compared to Romney and Santorum.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 4:02 PM

happened to think he went about it badly and he concedes that now.

That’s not really true. Even after he was defeated on that issue, he still acted like a jerk about it. He makes it out as though he listened to the people and did what they wanted, but that’s a little revision of history.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Well, your idea of federalism could be at odds with constitutionality and conservativism in many scenarios.

See, I do care that Romneycare was forced on people in Mass who didn’t support it. Because I’m for freedom over states rights to abuse freedom. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:01 PM

Well, the problem for being for “freedom” over states rights is that either you have states rights or you don’t. Either the states are a check against the feds or they aren’t. either they are sovereign or they are not. You can’t give the power to the national government to intervene in some cases but not others. Either they have the power to step on state authority or they don’t. I don’t trust the national electorate more then I trust my own state’s electorate.

And exactly how would my view of federalism contradict conservatism or the Constitution?

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 4:06 PM

If he’s a small governemnt guy, why did he get all excited about mandating a HPV vaccine? To me, there’s a disconnect there. I understand there’s an opt out, but when you start implementing unnecessary mandates, it seems to demonstrate that you don’t mind government getting involved in things it does not need to do.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Malachi,

You are basically big government is fine as long as it’s done at the state level.

That’s not a conservative point of view.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:08 PM

happened to think he went about it badly and he concedes that now.

That’s not really true. Even after he was defeated on that issue, he still acted like a jerk about it. He makes it out as though he listened to the people and did what they wanted, but that’s a little revision of history.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:05 PM

He was wrong. He admits that now. What else can he say? That doesn’t rise to the level of supporting Medicare Part D. That program is huge, expensive and redistributive. Oh, and of course unconstitutional.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 4:09 PM

He was wrong. He admits that now. What else can he say? That doesn’t rise to the level of supporting Medicare Part D. That program is huge, expensive and redistributive. Oh, and of course unconstitutional.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Perry woulud have voted for it too. If he likes mandates and violationg private property rights with the TTC project, why not medicare part D? B/c you say so? :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Perry only started concceding he went about the mandate thing badly after he announced his campaign for presidency.

Even when he ran for gov. the 3rd time, he was still defending how he went about the mandate thing.

He’s been smarmy in revising his attitude about it.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:13 PM

If he’s a small governemnt guy, why did he get all excited about mandating a HPV vaccine? To me, there’s a disconnect there. I understand there’s an opt out, but when you start implementing unnecessary mandates, it seems to demonstrate that you don’t mind government getting involved in things it does not need to do.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:08 PM

And you think that one vaccine mandate is more intrusive than Medicare part D and Romneycare? This is pretty weak tea as far as sins go for a candidate.

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Malachi,

You are basically big government is fine as long as it’s done at the state level.

That’s not a conservative point of view.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Well, I certainly would not characterize myself as such. We really haven’t discussed what policies I would support at the state level, have we?

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Perry woulud have voted for it too. If he likes mandates and violationg private property rights with the TTC project, why not medicare part D? B/c you say so? :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM

That’s completely speculative and I don’t see any support for that assumption. He supported one vaccine mandate. He initially supported TTC and then when it was argued that it was trampling private property rights, he changed his position and supported strengthening property rights, which was done. From that you extrapolate that he would have supported Medicare Part D? That’s some pretty serious mental gymnastics you are performing there. Perry’s record of non interference with the free market is pretty clear. This is the guy that signed tort reform into law in Texas.

Santorum has a clear record of being protectionist, supporting big government programs and being pro-union. He also has supported gun control laws. But you won’t support Perry over a couple of state issues that you don’t like and the speculation of what he might have done if he would have been in congress with Santorum?

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Perry only started concceding he went about the mandate thing badly after he announced his campaign for presidency.

Even when he ran for gov. the 3rd time, he was still defending how he went about the mandate thing.

He’s been smarmy in revising his attitude about it.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:13 PM

And this one issue, this one mandate of a vaccine for a deadly disease is more objectionable than a national health insurance mandate supported by Newt? Romneycare? Medicare Part D supported by Santorum?

And can someone who supports any of those three men really cast the stone of “smarmy” at another? Really?

Malachi45 on January 7, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Why did Santorum believe, as a conservative, that federal tax dollars in an era of rampant debt should go to the tune of $500,000 to fund a polar bear exhibit at the Pittsburgh Zoo.

If he can explain the overriding national interest to borrow money from China for that purpose, then I won’t criticize him as a “big government conservative” anymore.

When he explains why taxpayers need to pay more than the lowest bid cost for construction projects under the Davis-Bacon Act, I’ll stop calling him a union stooge.

God bless him for his steadfast positions on social issues, especially Life issues, but God keep him the h*ll away from the White House!

Adjoran on January 7, 2012 at 4:31 PM

I’m not responding to Red State’s talking points about Santorum.

The reality is conservative REpublican voters are rejecting Perry, mostly because he’s a liberal on immigration.

Redstaters will vote for Romney in the end, so I think their attempt to call Santorum a statist…no wait…pro-life statist…got to use to that pro-life adjective with Santorum…is stupid and ultimately hypocritical.

Perry was a Democrat, Al Gore supporter not all that long ago. It’s not hard to believe he would have supported all the “bad” stuff Santorum supported.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 4:47 PM

Why did Santorum believe, as a conservative, that federal tax dollars in an era of rampant debt should go to the tune of $500,000 to fund a polar bear exhibit at the Pittsburgh Zoo.

If he can explain the overriding national interest to borrow money from China for that purpose, then I won’t criticize him as a “big government conservative” anymore.

Since he’s been out of office since 2006 I suspect the polar bear exhibit mooney wasn’t borrowed from China…China acting as our banker is a more recent problem. The issue is not that Santorum steered $500,000 to the zoo since I suspect that was an earmark under an existing program designed to help zoos and if Santorum hadn’t mandated that the money go to Pittsburg then some faceless bureaucrat would have sent it to Des Moines or maybe would have seen the merits of the Pittsburg project and sent it there anyways…earmarks, until recently, were relatively benign…Congress doing what they are constitutionally empowered to do, allocate money…whether they allocate it to the Department of Zoo Exhibits and let the bureaucrats distribute it or designate where it should go is not the problem, it’s that any money is allocated to the Department of Exhibits or that the earmark process, like so many other things that seemed like a good idea at the time, got out of control…Santorum is forthright in admitting the earmark process, in retrospect, was headed for disaster.

ironmarshal on January 7, 2012 at 5:26 PM

Thanks for the interference call. So many male posters, everyone assumes all newbies are male. I am female, and maybe that is why I think some of Tesla’s language is over the top. He can have his opinion, and I can have mine.

jazzuscounty on January 7, 2012 at 3:31 PM

What is this thing about females and language? Is there some genetic characteristic that makes females more sensitive to a small number of words?

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:34 PM

I am a new female poster and it has taken me awhile to get used to the rough and sometimes nasty give and take on this site. I was so taken aback at first I even sent a note in to the site suggesting they try to get more female posters. Where are all of the women? Every conservative site is has mostly male posters. Anyway, I seem to have adjusted now, so if I don’t like the give and take I don’t participate.

Puma for Life on January 7, 2012 at 5:27 PM

People have been calling Santorum a big government conservative back in ’05 and ’06. He himself acknowledge it in his own book. The guy is a walking stereotype of the kind of politician the tea party rose up to oust in primaries in 2010.

Caiwyn on January 7, 2012 at 5:35 PM

People have been calling Santorum a big government conservative back in ’05 and ’06.

Big governemnt on what? A refusal to support gay marriage?

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 5:41 PM

Matt Lewis doesn’t bring this up, but I’ve seen him on Bloggingheads before, and he appears to be a gay man.

I could be wrong on that, it’s speculation, but I think his main problem with Santy is the “gay question”. He’s goign to use this other stuff as cover.

I’m not anti-Matt Lewis and he makes decent points from time to time, but I don’t think he’s be honest about why he doesn’t like Santy.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 5:46 PM

Why do Santorum and his supporters like Dr. Tesla talk so much about sex and gays? Geez, it’s more than a little creepy. Nobody cares. The man was the biggest supporter of Bush’s socialist agenda in the 00s – except that Santorum loves unions, loves pork, loves tariffs and sued Donald Rumsfeld to protect some military pork.

joana on January 7, 2012 at 5:55 PM

Joana,

You are a hack.

Santorum doesn’t bring up gay issues in his campaign…the media brings it up based on stuff he wrote in some book, and he has to respond to it. He’s not obessed with it, you guys are. It’s the whole reason why you hate the guy. I’ve effectively turned this issue around on you.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:01 PM

I’m going to vote for the protectionist tarriff guy over the ROmneycare guy, if that’s the choice.

Santorum wasn’t in my list of preferred candidates but I will slap down those who label him a statist simply because they are obsessed with gay rights and abortion rights, or because they think he hurts Perry.

I’m probably more of a Gingrich supporter than anybody but all you social liberals branded with a scarlet letter A. So Santorum you may get. :)

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:04 PM

Joana,

You are a hack.

Please, try to argue without ad hominem arguments and personal insults. If you can’t discuss with politeness, don’t bother to reply to my posts – I certainly won’t reply to yours any more if you repeat that sort of behavior.

Santorum doesn’t bring up gay issues in his campaign…the media brings it up based on stuff he wrote in some book, and he has to respond to it.

It’s because he won’t shut up with it. It’s not only gays, it’s things like birth control.

I mean, Matt Lewis talks about Santorum’s putrid fiscal record. Your reply? A hysterical and pitiful “maybe he’s gay!”. I mention Santorum’s awful record on economic issues. Your reply? “You’re obsessed with gays! You’re a hack!”. I mean, come on. It’s sort of bizarre and creepy.

joana on January 7, 2012 at 6:07 PM

Joana,

You support Romney, right?

I think Matt Lewis is most likely gay, and that’s why he doesn’t like Santy. That’s not a criticism, it’s a observation that I conceded may be not be accurate. But if he is gay and his problem with Santy is gay rights, he should be honest about that.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Fair trade/free trade is a minor issue on the table.

It’s got to be about repealing Obamacare. I don’t see why any informed Republican voter would want to entrust that mission to Romney. That’s delusional.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:13 PM

Santorum has received praise from Club for Growth and AMericans for Tax Reform and other fiscal groups.

So I do wonder when people try to make him out as a statist, big government guy.

There are a lot of Republicans who hate pro-life anti-gay marriage conservatives. Deny it all you want.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:24 PM

There are a lot of Republicans who hate pro-life anti-gay marriage conservatives. Deny it all you want.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:24 PM

I don’t know about the “hate” part, but there are many who think that Obama benefits from the time and energy that conservatives are putting into social issues in this election run-up.

GaltBlvnAtty on January 7, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Here is Club for Growth’s fair assessment of Santorum…note they do not call him a statist. Sorry Red Staters:

SUMMATION

On the whole, Rick Santorum’s record on economic issues in the U.S. Senate was above average. More precisely, it was quite strong in some areas and quite weak in others. He has a strong record on taxes, and his leadership on welfare reform and Social Security was exemplary. But his record also contains several very weak spots, including his active support of wasteful spending earmarks, his penchant for trade protectionism, and his willingness to support large government expansions like the Medicare prescription drug bill and the 2005 Highway Bill.

As president, Santorum would most likely lead the country in a pro-growth direction, but his record contains more than a few weak spots that make us question if he would resist political expediency when it comes to economic issues

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:38 PM

I don’t know about the “hate” part, but there are many who think that Obama benefits from the time and energy that conservatives are putting into social issues in this election run-up.

GaltBlvnAtty on January 7, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Everything seems to benefit Obama. You ever noticed that?

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:39 PM

If Governor Perry is given the opportunity to accomplish for our country what he has accomplished in Texas, there may be hope that we step back from the brink of European socialism.

Rio2010 on January 7, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Given? Given the opportunity? I’m sorry, but that is an honor that he had to earn. I admire his leadership of TX and many of his other qualities, although there are certainly aspects of the man that I don’t admire. But one thing that even his supporters must accept is that he has not done anything close to what is required as a candidate to earn the nomination.

MJBrutus on January 7, 2012 at 6:42 PM

Let’s face it: Perry is a retard.

Igor R. on January 7, 2012 at 3:39 PM

Someone tell Perry: never go full retard (scene) – tropic thunder

Frobenius on January 7, 2012 at 6:48 PM

Government over-reach is government over-reach. Period. There’s no getting around that.

Those who agree with Santorum on big-government mandating/facilitating social ‘norms’ (OTHER THAN the protection of ALL life at ANY age), but yet believe that limited-government is best regarding everything else…Can’t have it both ways.

This argument reminds me of a typical “my bible says this” and “oh yeah! well my bible says this!”…One cannot pick and choose. One cannot cherry-pick. There are more ‘flavorful’ aspects of Santorum, and some ‘not so flavorful’.

One CANNOT be for limited government…And willing, gleefully be over-the-moon about ‘earmarks’.
One CANNOT be for limited government…And believe that government has/should have/or will have more power to dig its boney-claws into our lives, via various ‘social issues’. (Once again, I’m NOT speaking about the protection of life, at ALL ages. That IS NOT a ‘social issue’. Don’t buy the argument that it is. Do your own thinking, for pete’s sake!)

NONE of the candidates are perfect.
ALL of the candidates have issues…Some issues are just easier to look away from than others. That’s all.

Most of us may not want to admit our favorite candidate isn’t perfect, but, we are being dishonest with ourselves if we choose to look the other way, and then continue (as in this case) to make believe that Santorum is (fiscally) George W Bush. Now, would I take Bush back right now, over obama…You betcha, and twice on Sundays.

But…Rock / Hard Place.
Pick your spot.

Talismen on January 7, 2012 at 7:02 PM

How can Santorum be the man on taxes, and tax cuts, and a statist at the same time?

Yes, he voted for some bad bills, but a statist is somebody who is going to support raising your taxes. That’s the first power of government that a statist abuses. Santorum opposed tax hikes and supported tax cuts.

That’s not a statist. Sorry Erick Erickson fans. All 3 of you.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Does statist mean having conviction?

richardporter on January 7, 2012 at 7:19 PM

I don’t know about the “hate” part, but there are many who think that Obama benefits from the time and energy that conservatives are putting into social issues in this election run-up.

GaltBlvnAtty on January 7, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Everything seems to benefit Obama. You ever noticed that?

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 6:39 PM

I think I am missing your point on this, but I can quickly identify one error in what you wrote. That is, the truth does not benefit Obama.

GaltBlvnAtty on January 7, 2012 at 7:35 PM

Nah I fail to see how Republicans having a contested primary helps Obama, especially since they are also criticizing Obama while doing it.

Dr. Tesla on January 7, 2012 at 7:41 PM

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