Requirement to consider gay couples for adoption forces Illinois Catholic Charities affiliates to close

posted at 9:27 pm on December 29, 2011 by Tina Korbe

After the Illinois state legislature passed a requirement that says adoption and foster-care agencies — to be eligible for state money — must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care or adoptive parents, the Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois decided to shut down most of the Catholic Charities affiliates in the state. This isn’t the first time something like this has happened: Massachusetts and Washington D.C. both passed similar requirements — and many Catholic Charities affiliates closed down in those states, as well. The New York Times reports:

For the nation’s Catholic bishops, the Illinois requirement is a prime example of what they see as an escalating campaign by the government to trample on their religious freedom while expanding the rights of gay people. The idea that religious Americans are the victims of government-backed persecution is now a frequent theme not just for Catholic bishops, but also for Republican presidential candidates and conservative evangelicals.

“In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,” said Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki of the Diocese of Springfield, Ill., a civil and canon lawyer who helped drive the church’s losing battle to retain its state contracts for foster care and adoption services. …

Critics of the church argue that no group has a constitutional right to a government contract, especially if it refuses to provide required services.

But Anthony R. Picarello Jr., general counsel and associate general secretary of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, disagreed. “It’s true that the church doesn’t have a First Amendment right to have a government contract,” he said, “but it does have a First Amendment right not to be excluded from a contract based on its religious beliefs.

This is tough stuff. My instinct is to think that the Illinois requirement does constitute a violation of religious liberty — but I’m not sure. The free exercise of religion clause protects religiously motivated conduct as well as belief (e.g. proselytization, refusing work on one’s sabbath, even sacrificing animals at a worship service), so Catholic Charities is well within its rights to refuse to place children with gay couples and still operate. Because Catholic Charities can’t operate foster care services without a contract with the state, the denial of the contract on the basis of CC’s fidelity to the teaching of the Catholic Church seems like a clear violation of religious freedom. But the mere denial of funding — no matter how heavily dependent CC is on it for its operations — is surely not. Freedom and funding, after all, are not the same.

Either way, though, let’s not forget the broader picture: The decision of the Illinois legislature to initiate the requirement in the first place — knowing it would hamstring Catholic Charities, which provides essential services — demonstrates an appalling willingness to allow an adult agenda — the mainstream acceptance of gay behavior — to supersede children’s interests. The spokesman for the state’s child welfare agency has said he thinks the child welfare system Catholic Charities helped to build is strong enough to withstand CC’s departure. But it’s hard to believe the shuttering of so many CC affiliates won’t make the burden of finding a home for children in need even greater.

Then, too, research suggests the healthiest and most stable environment for a child is to live with a married couple. Of those born to cohabiting parents, the majority see their parents split up before they hit age 16 — and children living with a mother and her unmarried partner are more likely to have behavioral problems and lower academic performance. That Catholic Charities wanted to work to place children in that optimal living environment but now can’t is heartbreaking no matter what the reasoning for the new requirement.


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Silliness. Wouldn’t we rather have kids with some parents than no parents at all? Nevertheless, Illinois is stupid for taking the statist route, again.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:32 PM

Scorched earth…

katy on December 29, 2011 at 9:33 PM

It’s time for Chicago, Milwaukee, and Gary Indiana to be shoved into their own state together.

ninjapirate on December 29, 2011 at 9:35 PM

Tina, show me in the Constitution where it says gay people have a right to adopt children. Now, show me the portion of the Constitution where it says that Catholics have a right to freely practice their faith.

The Catholics of Illinois are getting exactly the government they elected. It should fit them well.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:37 PM

This is how it starts. Make the non-government option no longer an option and all you have is the government option.

pascelle on December 29, 2011 at 9:38 PM

This was intentional.

The agenda to force religious institutions to comply with government standards has been on the docket of years. Sometimes it works.

This was a giant FAIL!

I’ll bet the progressives are a tad shocked. They usually get compliance.

lib-or-tea on December 29, 2011 at 9:38 PM

Oh well, a few eggs need to be broken on our way to leftist Utopia.

Bishop on December 29, 2011 at 9:38 PM

Romney will fix this mess once he gets to the white house.

Jailbreak on December 29, 2011 at 9:39 PM

I am with the church on this. The state is forceing them to deny who they are and what they stand for. Better to shut down then become something you are not or are against.

mechkiller_k on December 29, 2011 at 9:39 PM

It’s time for Chicago, Milwaukee, and Gary Indiana to be shoved into their own state together.

ninjapirate on December 29, 2011 at 9:35 PM

Is there a Milwaukee, Indiana?

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:39 PM

For the nation’s Catholic bishops, the Illinois requirement is a prime example of what they see as an escalating campaign by the government to trample on their religious freedom while expanding the rights of gay people.

Ah yes. their religious freedom to receive state money with no strings attached whatsoever.

theodore on December 29, 2011 at 9:40 PM

How is this not a violation of the First Amendment? This is exactly why we cannot pussyfoot around with this Ron Paul nonsense. We must nominate a candidate who can and will beat Obama. Obama cannot be allowed to replace Kennedy or one of the conservative Supreme Court Justices or we will be doomed to decades (or longer) of this tyranny over religion.

Othniel on December 29, 2011 at 9:41 PM

The notion that libs do it “for the children” should begin to erode with more of these antics.

If the GOP had any brains….*sigh*..they’d use this story to blow a whole wide open in that talking point.

lib-or-tea on December 29, 2011 at 9:42 PM

This is how it starts. Make the non-government option no longer an option and all you have is the government option.

pascelle on December 29, 2011 at 9:38 PM

Yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is just another manifestation of the the strategy to eliminate private charities in order to to shift all services to the state. Completely in line with the Obamacare goals.

neuquenguy on December 29, 2011 at 9:42 PM

The goal of Catholic Charities is to put kids into homes that, while not perfect, at least aren’t hostile to Christianity. Being a proud homosexual Christian is like being a 300-lb Kentucky Derby jockey. You can call yourself anything, but if it can’t work that way, it can’t work.

RBMN on December 29, 2011 at 9:43 PM

The logical conclusion is the “families” they are trying to help will suffer from the families’ hate for their Catholic caregivers.

crash72 on December 29, 2011 at 9:43 PM

We have been dealing with this for some time here in Ill. It is because we have a left-wing Attny General whose father bought her the office. She is the same nut that wanted to give the Associated Press all the names and addresses of gun owners in Illinois.

Illinois Government Continues War Against Religion http://www.publiusforum.com/2011/10/11/illinois-government-continues-war-against-religion/

Illinois Government’s War Against Religious Child Services Continues http://www.publiusforum.com/2011/10/31/illinois-governments-war-against-religious-child-services-continues/

Warner Todd Huston on December 29, 2011 at 9:44 PM

I find myself reflecting on my thoughts in 1960, in high school, when I read 1984. Back then I thought it could never happen. Now, everyday, we see stories like this, and today I got some reprieve, maybe only temporary, from the California Public Utilities Commission and Southern California Edison’s attempt to install a “smart meter” in my home.
We are far beyond where our wildest imaginations took us.

GaltBlvnAtty on December 29, 2011 at 9:44 PM

let’s dust off our Gramsci again

Hence, cultural hegemony proposes that the prevailing cultural norms of society, imposed by the ruling class (bourgeois hegemony), must not be perceived as natural and inevitable, but must be recognized as artificial social constructs (institutions, practices, beliefs) that must be investigated to discover their roots as social class domination; from which knowledge follows societal liberation.

In 1967, the German student movement leader Rudi Dutschke reformulated Gramsci’s philosophy of cultural hegemony with the phrase “Der lange Marsch durch die Institutionen“ (The long march through the institutions), denoting the war of position, in allusion to the Long March (1934–35) of the Communist Chinese People’s Liberation Army.[11][12][13]

it is actually a rather complex theory of action that is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony

the progressive are happy tonight

r keller on December 29, 2011 at 9:45 PM

Then, too, research suggests the healthiest and most stable environment for a child is to live with a married couple.

The implication is that gay “marriage” would be a solution — but I suspect that would not fly with my fellow Catholics either — especially after the gay priest fiasco. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:45 PM

Romney will fix this mess once he gets to the white house.

Jailbreak on December 29, 2011 at 9:39 PM

Your misplaced comment on this thread is a dead giveaway. You really are a shill….

Maybe even a paid one. You’re pushing your luck in the credibility department.

lib-or-tea on December 29, 2011 at 9:45 PM

I am with the church on this. The state is forceing them to deny who they are and what they stand for. Better to shut down then become something you are not or are against.

mechkiller_k on December 29, 2011 at 9:39 PM

The only alternative is for those who do not want the government to take over all these services, to contribute more generously to private charities and thus negate the need for government subsidies.

neuquenguy on December 29, 2011 at 9:45 PM

it’s hard to believe the shuttering of so many CC affiliates won’t make the burden of finding a home for children in need even greater.

Who cares as long as the gays are happy.

Screw the kids.

BacaDog on December 29, 2011 at 9:45 PM

I don’t see the problem here…

… the Muslim Charities will step up and fill the void overnight!

Oh, wait…!

/

Seven Percent Solution on December 29, 2011 at 9:45 PM

That the average age of a Hot Air poster is mid-60s is never more evident than on posts like this. No one under forty cares about the gay issue anymore. Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

This explains it all very well.

hoofhearted on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Silliness. Wouldn’t we rather have kids with some parents than no parents at all?

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:32 PM

Parents are going to Romania, Russia, Cambodia, etc looking for children to adopt. There isn’t a shortage of parents.

sharrukin on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

The Catholic bishops supported “social justice” promoted by liberals, and the funding and public approval it brought to them, but the bishops never realized this was part of a Brave New Secularist World.

Wethal on December 29, 2011 at 9:47 PM

The Catholic bishops supported “social justice” promoted by liberals, and the funding and public approval it brought to them, but the bishops never realized this was part of a Brave New Secularist World.

Wethal on December 29, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Exactly right!

lib-or-tea on December 29, 2011 at 9:48 PM

Ah yes. their religious freedom to receive state money with no strings attached whatsoever.

theodore on December 29, 2011 at 9:40 PM

There are always strings attached. This one is one string too many.

I say good luck to the State of Illinois in handling their new caseload.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:48 PM

Gay couples adopting children does not sync with the biological fact that gay couples cannot procreate – but this now allows them to emulate. Emulating is not family building – it’s begging for acceptance – and don’t waste your time waking me up about heterosexual couples getting it right adopting because it is right for heteros.

ericdijon on December 29, 2011 at 9:49 PM

I agree with the person who said that Illinois voters get the policies of the people they elect to govern. I’m really really really sick of the homosexual agenda…

CCRWM on December 29, 2011 at 9:50 PM

The Catholic bishops supported “social justice” promoted by liberals, and the funding and public approval it brought to them, but the bishops never realized this was part of a Brave New Secularist World.

Wethal on December 29, 2011 at 9:47 PM

“social justice” is not a solid block of positions, as is obviousLy being demonstrated here.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:50 PM

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Well, that comment is ignorance at it’s best.

Homosexuality, in the view of the catholic church is a sin.

They’re standing on their principles and although I’m not Catholic, I admire that.

Broad generalization on your under 40 point as well. Plenty of folks under 40 would take issue with it.

BacaDog on December 29, 2011 at 9:51 PM

That the average age of a Hot Air poster is mid-60s is never more evident than on posts like this. No one under forty cares about the gay issue anymore. Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

No, the state of Illinois is putting dogma over helping children.

Gay couples adopt children for vanity reasons only. It’s obnoxious to have the power of the state put on their side.

rockmom on December 29, 2011 at 9:51 PM

— the mainstream acceptance of gay behavior — to supersede children’s interests

That’s what this is all about.

INC on December 29, 2011 at 9:52 PM

That the average age of a Hot Air poster is mid-60s is never more evident than on posts like this. No one under forty cares about the gay issue anymore. Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Kids need a mother & a father.

Get over your sexism.

tetriskid on December 29, 2011 at 9:52 PM

On one hand, more adoption = less abortion, so I don’t see why they want to have fewer options (well, i know why, but you know what i mean)

On the other hand, if anybody read the link, is that the couple that started this whole thing claims to be Catholic. I will never understand belonging to an institution that openly discriminates against you, and then complaining that you are being discriminated against! It’s like eating at Capital Grille every night and complaining the food is expensive….

peachaeo on December 29, 2011 at 9:53 PM

After the Illinois state legislature passed a requirement that says adoption and foster-care agencies — to be eligible for state money — must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care or adoptive parents, the Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois decided to shut down most of the Catholic Charities affiliates in the state.

Am I missing something here? Why does the Catholic Charities need state money to provide this service?

mrsmwp on December 29, 2011 at 9:54 PM

Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.
andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Has it ever occurred to you that the church doesn’t believe this is helping children? Is this more of the left’s “settled science” that gay parenting is good for kids?

hoofhearted on December 29, 2011 at 9:55 PM

That the average age of a Hot Air poster is mid-60s is never more evident than on posts like this. No one under forty cares about the gay issue anymore. Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

The prohibition against acceptance of gay behavior has been in place for thousands of years. It’s not something to be put aside lightly in the quest for “modernity”.

As is said in Mass, “From age to age You gather a people around You..”. There is an ageless uniformity in Church teaching, as Illinois just discovered.

As for condoning gay behavior, the priest scandal is the obvious result. The last thing I’d like to hear was how a gay male used a child adopted from a Catholic institution as his boy toy.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:55 PM

The Catholic bishops supported “social justice” promoted by liberals, and the funding and public approval it brought to them, but the bishops never realized this was part of a Brave New Secularist World.

Wethal on December 29, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Can you provide some insight into how the catholic principles of Social Justice are the same ones promoted by liberals?

neuquenguy on December 29, 2011 at 9:55 PM

Illinois sucks but the church progressive left is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

There, that’s got some truth to it..;)

lib-or-tea on December 29, 2011 at 9:55 PM

Tina, I’m Catholic, and when I hear or read about stuff like this happening with the church and before I start to feeling all worked-up about it, I remind myself that 54% of all my fellow Catholics voted for Obama. You reap what you sow. The church is getting what it deserves IMO.

In addition to the pickle the church is in with the administration’s gay agenda, I remember that in 2008 there were prominent Catholic scholars who were advocating that voting for Obama was the right thing to do because social justice is more important than abortion, homosexuality, etc. Now, the church is pandering to the hispanic community. The American bishops just published an open letter to the hispanic community in the last couple of weeks wereby they were calling America an “unjust” country and telling “their hispanic friends” that they are in solidarity with them and that this country is so unjust they should wait to come until it becomes a kinder place.

At this point, I’m so fed up with the church that I can hardly sit through a mass anymore the social justice is laid on so thick.

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 9:56 PM

I am siding against Catholic Charities on this one. Sorry, but, if you are an organization who wants support from the government in the form of money, then you have to also abide by the government’s rules.

By refusing to even consider any gay couples for adoption, Catholic Charities was breaking the new law, and therefore was no longer eligible for government money.

Nobody “forced” Catholic Charities to shut down. They could have either considered gay couples for adoption and continued to receive money from the government, or they could have gotten money from donors to continue their operations without any government assistance.

Catholic Charities has decided that it would be better for them to help no children at all than to help even a few children go to loving, same-sex households.

They are placing their own religious dogma about gay people above the well-being of the children that would love to be in a caring home-even if that home had a same-sex couple living in it.

Then again, that’s what happens when you base your belief system around the idea that all gay people, regardless of their personality, character, and virtues, are all dirty, nasty sinners and sodomites and are not good in the slightest.

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 9:57 PM

I will never understand belonging to an institution that openly discriminates against you, and then complaining that you are being discriminated against! It’s like eating at Capital Grille every night and complaining the food is expensive….

I get your point, but I would have rephrased it.

I will never understand belonging to an institution that openly embraces beliefs that you’re against, and then complaining about it. It’s like those dumbass atheists joining the campus christian organization and then complaining they have to pray.

BacaDog on December 29, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Am I missing something here? Why does the Catholic Charities need state money to provide this service?

mrsmwp on December 29, 2011 at 9:54 PM

What you are missing is that the State of Illinois accredits adoption agencies — only agencies who meet various state laws with regard to adoption can participate in the adoption “marketplace”.

In addition, I’m sure that this particular requirement carries some very heavy penalties for violation — not to mention opening up a big path to lawsuits by aggrieved gay “couples”.

Remember the Methodist Pavilion and its principled stand against having any part of a gay wedding ceremony celebrated upon its land.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:58 PM

That the average age of a Hot Air poster is mid-60s is never more evident than on posts like this. No one under forty cares about the gay issue anymore. Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

You, sir, are full of it. Go back to posting at DailyKos or HuffPost. They like your kind over there.

mom29js on December 29, 2011 at 9:59 PM

Only gay babies should be allowed to be adopted by gay couples.

profitsbeard on December 29, 2011 at 9:59 PM

Catholic Charities has decided that it would be better for them to help no children at all than to help even a few children go to loving, same-sex households.

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Remember the living gay priests who are the root cause of millions of dollars of payouts by my Church.

I’m sure that there are loving households comprised of ex-murderers, ex-arsonists, and the such that might also want to provide a loving household.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:01 PM

I am siding against Catholic Charities on this one.
theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Makes sense to me.

lib-or-tea on December 29, 2011 at 10:01 PM

well, here’s the cleverness of the left (aka progressives’)

step 1. make taxes high
step 2. slow down the private charity
step 3. give ‘public’ money to charities
step 4…well, you know the rest

r keller on December 29, 2011 at 10:02 PM

I find myself reflecting on my thoughts in 1960, in high school, when I read 1984. Back then I thought it could never happen.
GaltBlvnAtty on December 29, 2011 at 9:44 PM

It was only about 20 years ago for me. Of course I knew that totalitarian nations existed, and that everyday life could be horrifically brutal for millions of people….

But all the stuff about the “memory hole” and Doublespeak I didn’t really understand. I assumed that part was meant to be surrealist. Now I’m seeing it happen in front of my own two eyes every freaking day.

Then again, I suppose that’s how it has to work. You can’t just enslave a country full of free-thinking individuals and then start brainwashing people. It always begins the other way around.

logis on December 29, 2011 at 10:02 PM

Once more, just because I think it is a relevant verse:

“Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. ‘All this I will give you,’ he said, ‘if you will bow down and worship me.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” Matthew 4:8-11

AbaddonsReign on December 29, 2011 at 10:02 PM

This is tough stuff. My instinct is to think that the Illinois requirement does constitute a violation of religious liberty — but I’m not sure.

The constant drumbeat of the gay agenda is bleeding into your thinking. In no way, shape or form does adoption funding constitute the establishment of the Catholic church as the official church of Illinois.

INC on December 29, 2011 at 10:03 PM

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Who says the Catholic church is asking for state money? I believe the article stated that in order to be “accredited” by the state to offer adoption services you had to be willing to place children in gay households.

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 10:04 PM

“social justice” is not a solid block of positions, as is obviousLy being demonstrated here.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:50 PM

Can you provide some insight into how the catholic principles of Social Justice are the same ones promoted by liberals?

neuquenguy on December 29, 2011 at 9:55 PM

They aren’t the same or a “block”, which is the point.

“Social justice” means one thing to one group and another thing to another group. Each one may assume that other groups are using the same definition as one’s own, but this is not the case, as the bishops are finding out.

Wethal on December 29, 2011 at 10:06 PM

How many people would accept a compromise of allowing gay marriage, but outlawing abortions (with or without exceptions)?

Flange on December 29, 2011 at 10:06 PM

Tina, I’m Catholic, and when I hear or read about stuff like this happening with the church and before I start to feeling all worked-up about it, I remind myself that 54% of all my fellow Catholics voted for Obama. You reap what you sow. The church is getting what it deserves IMO.

Statistics indicate that a clear majority of self-professed Catholics do not practice their faith. Non-practicing catholics do not constitute the Catholic Church.

In addition to the pickle the church is in with the administration’s gay agenda, I remember that in 2008 there were prominent Catholic scholars who were advocating that voting for Obama was the right thing to do because social justice is more important than abortion, homosexuality, etc. Now,

“prominent catholic scholars” do not constitute the catholic church, nor do they speak for the Catholic bishops.

the church is pandering to the hispanic community. The American bishops just published an open letter to the hispanic community in the last couple of weeks wereby they were calling America an “unjust” country and telling “their hispanic friends” that they are in solidarity with them and that this country is so unjust they should wait to come until it becomes a kinder place.

If this is a verbatim quote, it sounds disturbing, could you provide a link to this?

At this point, I’m so fed up with the church that I can hardly sit through a mass anymore the social justice is laid on so thick.

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 9:56 PM

I am very sorry to hear this. I have experienced misguided parishes in the past, thankfully I have always had the option to go to a different parish where the teaching is more solid.

neuquenguy on December 29, 2011 at 10:07 PM

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:58 PM

Yeah, the accreditation part stinks. The article only mentioned receiving state money. I think more people should go the Hillsdale College route and not take a dime of government money so that you can tell them to eff off.

mrsmwp on December 29, 2011 at 10:07 PM

Am I missing something here? Why does the Catholic Charities need state money to provide this service?

mrsmwp on December 29, 2011 at 9:54 PM

Because people paying outlandishly large tax bills have less to give to charity perhaps? Because the state also funds adoption and foster care services, so having other institutions do so with state funding often saves the state a considerable amount of money because overhead is lower? Of course we can’t have that when the ultimate goal is Leviathan, the large completely over-arching government entity that oversees every element of citizens’s lives from cradle to grave (and in Illinois, beyond, since deceased citizens are automatically registered into the Democrat party thus serving the State’s purpose even after death)

AZfederalist on December 29, 2011 at 10:07 PM

AbaddonsReign on December 29, 2011 at 10:02 PM

+1000

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:07 PM

That the average age of a Hot Air poster is mid-60s is never more evident than on posts like this. No one under forty cares about the gay issue anymore. Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

No, it is the state that is putting dogma over helping children by through a policy that everyone knows will shut out a huge resource of help, namely the Catholic Church. There are a number of adoption agencies and churches who do not share the Catholic Church’s position and so there are many options for gay couples to adopt, with or without this law. All this silly legislation does is wipe out a significant provider of such services in the name of political correctness.

TXUS on December 29, 2011 at 10:09 PM

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Well, that comment is ignorance at it’s best.
Homosexuality, in the view of the catholic church is a sin.
They’re standing on their principles and although I’m not Catholic, I admire that.
Broad generalization on your under 40 point as well. Plenty of folks under 40 would take issue with it.
BacaDog on December 29, 2011 at 9:51 PM

Yup. But where I would disagree is “ignorance at it’s best”. I believe it should be “at it’s worst”.

whatcat on December 29, 2011 at 10:09 PM

This explains it all very well.

hoofhearted on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Actually, it doesn’t. If you look at one of the charts, “churches” is listed as a recipient of marxist thought.

That’s obviously not the case here.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:10 PM

TXUS on December 29, 2011 at 10:09 PM

From the opponent’s viewpoint, the Church discriminates against a child’s right to be adopted by a “loving gay couple” — whatever the words in quotes mean.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:12 PM

I find myself reflecting on my thoughts in 1960, in high school, when I read 1984. Back then I thought it could never happen.
GaltBlvnAtty on December 29, 2011 at 9:44 PM

I read it in my teens and it had no real effect on me. I just read it again about a month ago and it scared the hell out of me. So much of it is happening. It’s really very frightening. It seems to be the play book of the left.

hoofhearted on December 29, 2011 at 10:13 PM

How many people would accept a compromise of allowing gay marriage, but outlawing abortions (with or without exceptions)?

Flange on December 29, 2011 at 10:06 PM

Compromise? You compromise in politics.

Faith and religion cannot have compromise or they are no longer faith and religion.

It’s black or white. Right or wrong.

Politics is both on any given day by any means necessary.

lib-or-tea on December 29, 2011 at 10:13 PM

Then again, that’s what happens when you base your belief system around the idea that all gay people, regardless of their personality, character, and virtues, are all dirty, nasty sinners and sodomites and are not good in the slightest.

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 9:57 PM

I suggest you get your community to stop posting it’s vile vulgar perverted behavior on the net for us all to see i.e. Folsom street fair then …

CCRWM on December 29, 2011 at 10:14 PM

O\T Rush is on Greta. He is giving her an earful!

FLconservative on December 29, 2011 at 10:14 PM

From the article:

“Catholic Charities affiliates received a total of nearly $2.9 billion a year from the government in 2010, about 62 percent of its annual revenue of $4.67 billion. Only 3 percent came from churches in the diocese (the rest came from in-kind contributions, investments, program fees and community donations).

In Illinois, Catholic Charities in five of the six state dioceses had grown dependent on foster care contracts, receiving 60 percent to 92 percent of their revenues from the state, according to affidavits by the charities’ directors.”

Doesn’t this seem somewhat problematic? I thought the point of charities giving charity was so that government wouldn’t have to.

mrsmwp on December 29, 2011 at 10:15 PM

Tim Kee, a teacher in Marion, Ill., who was turned away by Catholic Charities three years ago when he and his longtime partner, Rick Wade, tried to adopt a child, said: “We’re both Catholic, we love our church, but Catholic Charities closed the door to us. To add insult to injury, my tax dollars went to provide discrimination against me.”

They obviously do not love their Church more than they love each other.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:15 PM

neuquenguy on December 29, 2011 at 10:07 PM

Here is the text of the Bishops letter that was printed in my Catholic weekly newspaper. I’ve highlighted some of the more disturbing portions to me:

Monday, December 12, 2011
Estas son las Mañanitas…of the Hispanic Bishops
The Hispanic/Latino Bishops of the United States greeted us early today, the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, with their own very special version of the “Mañanitas,” a letter to immigrants. Signed by 33 bishops, the letter was released simultaneously from Los Angeles and San Antonio, the sees of the two highest ranking Hispanic archbishops.
The full text of the letter along with the signatories is reproduced below.

LETTER OF THE HISPANIC/LATINO BISHOPS TO IMMIGRANTS

Dear immigrant sisters and brothers,

May the peace and grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you!

We the undersigned Hispanic/Latino Bishops of the United States wish to let those of you who lack proper authorization to live and work in our country know that you are not alone, or forgotten. We recognize that every human being, authorized or not, is an image of God and therefore possesses infinite value and dignity. We open our arms and hearts to you, and we receive you as members of our Catholic family. As pastors, we direct these words to you from the depths of our heart.

In a very special way we want to thank you for the Christian values you manifest to us with your lives—your sacrifice for the well-being of your families, your determination and perseverance, your joy of life, your profound faith and fidelity despite your insecurity and many difficulties. You contribute much to the welfare of our nation in the economic, cultural and spiritual arenas.

The economic crisis has had an impact on the entire U.S. community. Regretfully, some in reaction to this environment of uncertainty show disdain for immigrants and even blame them for the crisis. We will not find a solution to our problems by sowing hatred. We will find the solution by sowing a sense of solidarity among all workers and co-workers —immigrants and citizens—who live together in the United States.

In your suffering faces we see the true face of Jesus Christ. We are well aware of the great sacrifice you make for your families’ well-being. Many of you perform the most difficult jobs and receive miserable salaries and no health insurance or social security. Despite your contributions to the well-being of our country, instead of receiving our thanks, you are often treated as criminals because you have violated current immigration laws.

We are also very aware of the pain suffered by those families who have experienced the deportation of one of their members. We are conscious of the frustration of youth and young adults who have grown up in this country and whose dreams are shattered because they lack legal immigration status. We also know of the anxiety of those whose application process for permanent residency is close to completion and of the anguish of those who live daily under the threat of deportation. This situation cries out to God for a worthy and humane solution.

We acknowledge that, at times, actions taken in regard to immigrants have made you feel ignored or abandoned, especially when no objection is raised to the false impressions that are promoted within our society. Through the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops we have testified before the U.S. Congress for change in our immigration laws and for legislation that respects family unity and provides an orderly and reasonable process for unauthorized persons to attain citizenship. The new law should include a program for worker visas that respects the immigrants’ human rights, provides for their basic needs and ensures that they enter our country and work in a safe and orderly manner. We will also continue to advocate on behalf of global economic justice, so that our brothers and sisters can find employment opportunities in their countries of origin that offer a living wage, and allow them to live with dignity.
Immigrants are a revitalizing force for our country. The lack of a just, humane and effective reform of immigration laws negatively affects the common good of the entire United States.

It pains and saddens us that many of our Catholic brothers and sisters have not supported our petitions for changes in the immigration law that will protect your basic rights while you contribute your hard work to our country. We promise to keep working to bring about this change. We know how difficult the journey is to reach the border and to enter the United States. That is why we are committed to do all that we can to bring about a change in the immigration law, so that you can enter and remain here legally and not feel compelled to undertake a dangerous journey in order to support and provide for your families. As pastors concerned for your welfare, we ask you to consider seriously whether it is advisable to undertake the journey here until after just and humane changes occur in our immigration laws.

Nevertheless, we are not going to wait until the law changes to welcome you who are already here into our churches, for as St. Paul tells us, “You are no longer aliens or foreign visitors; you are fellow-citizens with the holy people of God and part of God’s household” (Eph 2:19).

As members of the Body of Christ which is the Church, we offer you spiritual nourishment. Feel welcome to Holy Mass, the Eucharist, which nourishes us with the word and the body and blood of Jesus. We offer you catechetical programs for your children and those religious education programs that our diocesan resources allow us to put at your disposal.

We who are citizens and permanent residents of this country cannot forget that almost all of us, we or our ancestors, have come from other lands and together with immigrants from various nations and cultures, have formed a new nation. Now we ought to open our hearts and arms to the recently arrived, just as Jesus asks us to do when he says, “I was hungry and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me to drink; I was an alien and you took me into your house” (Mt 25:35). These words of the Lord Jesus can be applied to the new immigrants among us. They were hungry in their land of origin; they were thirsty as they traveled through the deserts, and they find themselves among us as aliens. (See Daniel G. Groody, CSC, “Crossing the Line,” in The Way, Vol. 43,, No. 2, April 2004, p. 58-69). Their presence challenges us to be more courageous in denouncing the injustices they suffer. In imitation of Jesus and the great prophets we ought to denounce the forces that oppress them and announce the good news of the Kingdom with our works of charity. Let us pray and struggle to make it possible for these brothers and sisters of ours to have the same opportunities from which we have benefited.

We see Jesus the pilgrim in you migrants. The Word of God migrated from heaven to earth in order to become man and save humanity. Jesus emigrated with Mary and Joseph to Egypt, as a refugee. He migrated from Galilee to Jerusalem for the sacrifice of the cross, and finally he emigrated from death to life in the resurrection and ascension to heaven. Today, he continues to journey and accompany all migrants on pilgrimage throughout the world in search of food, work, dignity, security and opportunities for the welfare of their families.

You reveal to us the supreme reality of life: we are all migrants. Your migration gives a strong and clear message that we are migrants on the way to eternal life. Jesus accompanies all Christians on our journey toward the house of our Father, God’s Kingdom in heaven. (See Pope John Paul II, Tertio Millennio Adveniente, No. 50.)

We urge you not to despair. Keep faith in Jesus the migrant who continues to walk beside you. Have faith in Our Lady of Guadalupe who constantly repeats to us the words she spoke to St. Juan Diego, “Am I, who am your mother, not here?” She never abandons us, nor does St. Joseph who protects us as he did the Holy Family during their emigration to Egypt.

As pastors we want to continue to do advocacy for all immigrants. With St. Paul we say to you: “Do not be mastered by evil; but master evil with good.” (Rm 12:21).

May Almighty God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, accompany you and bless you always.

Sincerely in Christ our Savior,
The Hispanic/Latino Bishops of the United States

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 10:17 PM

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 9:56 PM

I hear you. I work in a Catholic school, and it always astounds me that the religion teachers are the biggest supporters of state solutions.
I don’t think they understand that they are promoting themselves right out of a job. I don’t understand how seemingly intelligent people – who teach theology for a living! – don’t understand that once the government is god, nobody will need God.

pascelle on December 29, 2011 at 10:18 PM

O\T Rush is on Greta. He is giving her an earful!

FLconservative on December 29, 2011 at 10:14 PM

It’s a reply from a few weeks ago. Still, it was an awesome interview.

lib-or-tea on December 29, 2011 at 10:18 PM

I suggest you get your community to stop posting it’s vile vulgar perverted behavior on the net for us all to see i.e. Folsom street fair then …

I agree-the shameless, perverted, open celebration of nudity must be stopped! Down with Mardi Gras!!! That’s what you’re talking about, right?

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 10:19 PM

Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.
andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Okay, first of all, we have different views of what helping children means, obviously. Secondly, and most important, is the Church better put dogma first. I know it is hard for some people to understand, including many a social justice crazed priest, but the Church’s primary mission on earth is not to ‘help’ people. It is to spread the good news of salvation and the unwavering and uncompromising Truth in order to save souls.

I am siding against Catholic Charities on this one.

Then again, that’s what happens when you base your belief system around the idea that all gay people, regardless of their personality, character, and virtues, are all dirty, nasty sinners and sodomites and are not good in the slightest.

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 9:57 PM

I’m not sure why, but I get the feeling you side against most things Catholic, most of the time. Could be that last paragraph…

pannw on December 29, 2011 at 10:22 PM

One of the few things that the Illinois government has done right is extend the right for pharmacists not to dispense the “morning after pill” if doing so violates his or her conscience. I would hope that a similar conscience clause would have been added to such civil union/adoption legislation.

I understand the argument about such a charity receiving state funding versus simply their first amendment rights. Nonetheless, this is an example of government putting their “tolerant” agenda before children. There are other organizations involved in foster care and adoption that accept same sex couples. Catholic charities is not the sole organization extending opportunities for foster parents or adoptive parents.

Whitney Pitcher on December 29, 2011 at 10:23 PM

So they are operating on government money. A goverment-backed charity. Where are the “Christian conservatives” to tell me that Christianity and socialism are totally not interconnected? They have NO problem with the government pouring money on welfare, as long as some of it can be funnelled to their churchs first. Shutting down these parasites is no different than shutting down acorn. Do your “worthy cause” WITHOUT taxpayer money!

Daikokuco on December 29, 2011 at 10:23 PM

That the average age of a Hot Air poster is mid-60s is never more evident than on posts like this. No one under forty cares about the gay issue anymore. Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

I am 28, So don’t tell me that nobody under 40 doesn’t care,

Yes i do care about the gay issue, while i don’t care for the one who is gay, he can do whatever he wants, But i do want my kids to know that it is wrong to be gay, and it is against everything human nature is about,

The notion that what Illinois did is only silly??? They are destroying a good church for what? Because the Gay mafia decided that they have a right to adoption?

There is a reason why there are man and women, and a reason why women and man have almost married one another, Because we all know a kid needs the mothers heart, and the fathers head, The idea that there is nothing wrong for a kid to grow up with 2 dads is insane

We have enough problems with our current generation, just wait what happens when we have tons of grown ups who never had a father or a mother in their life, You will understand then that those over 60 who are supposed to be stupid were once again right over those so called smart youngsters

OrthodoxJew on December 29, 2011 at 10:24 PM

mrsmwp on December 29, 2011 at 10:15 PM

Well, you are right. If the Catholic church is getting government money, then they have to play by the government rules. I though the issue was that the church could not be accredited if they did not place foster children with gay couples. This is the church’s own fault–they ate the apple off the poisan tree of the government.

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 10:24 PM

Romney will end this nonsense once he’s elected

rickyricardo on December 29, 2011 at 10:26 PM

The Catholics of Illinois are getting exactly the government they elected. It should fit them well.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 9:37 PM

Bing.

Jaibones on December 29, 2011 at 10:27 PM

Homosexuals raising children is a perversion to begin with.

If you have no biological interest in having children then please be consistent: there is no reason for you to raise them either.

What a tragedy!

Sherman1864 on December 29, 2011 at 10:27 PM

Can’t the Catholic Church decide to help catholics only, and excommunicate any who contravene dogma?

OldEnglish on December 29, 2011 at 10:29 PM

This explains it all very well.
hoofhearted on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM
Actually, it doesn’t. If you look at one of the charts, “churches” is listed as a recipient of marxist thought.
That’s obviously not the case here.
unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:10 PM

Right, it’s not the case here. In the video, it talks about how the left is trying to infiltrate the church in general as part of the agenda to grind America down. I posted the link because it does an excellent job of exposing all aspects of the left’s attack on the fabric of this nation and how successful they have been.

hoofhearted on December 29, 2011 at 10:29 PM

From the opponent’s viewpoint, the Church discriminates against a child’s right to be adopted by a “loving gay couple” — whatever the words in quotes mean.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:12 PM

Hadn’t thought of that way, nor have I found in the Constitution those words, though I have read and defended the Document thousands of times. I’m still looking for the Clause, “Congress shall make no laws respecting homosexual conduct nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Maybe they left that out of my copy.

TXUS on December 29, 2011 at 10:30 PM

That the average age of a Hot Air poster is mid-60s is never more evident than on posts like this. No one under forty cares about the gay issue anymore. Illinois sucks but the church is putting dogma over helping children.

andy85719 on December 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Heh. I’m 50 and my most socially conservative acquaintances are my nephew, his wife, and their close friends — all Catholic; all socially/Biblically conservative; all under 30.

Jaibones on December 29, 2011 at 10:31 PM

I agree-the shameless, perverted, open celebration of nudity must be stopped! Down with Mardi Gras!!! That’s what you’re talking about, right?

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 10:19 PM

They are both disgusting displays of humans at their lowest but nice try…oh I’m not Catholic…

CCRWM on December 29, 2011 at 10:31 PM

Homosexuals raising children is a perversion to begin with.

If you have no biological interest in having children then please be consistent: there is no reason for you to raise them either.

What a tragedy!

And you my friend are the epitome of ignorance

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 10:33 PM

OrthodoxJew on December 29, 2011 at 10:24 PM

QFT, thank you for providing clarity in the face of absolute inanity.

TXUS on December 29, 2011 at 10:35 PM

Tim Kee, a teacher in Marion, Ill., who was turned away by Catholic Charities three years ago when he and his longtime partner, Rick Wade, tried to adopt a child, said: “We’re both Catholic, we love our church, but Catholic Charities closed the door to us. To add insult to injury, my tax dollars went to provide discrimination against me.”

They obviously do not love their Church more than they love each other.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:15 PM

Even worse, they are openly gay which is in direct opposition to the teaching of the Catholic church, yet are not under church discipline nor have they been excommunicated for living in openly unrepentant sin?

Now, I’m not Roman Catholic, but in the Lutheran church, living in unrepentant sin openly is cause for being placed under church discipline in which the sacrament is withheld (not in punishment, but to prevent the unrepentant from partaking in an unworthy manner as per the Apostle Paul’s teachings, that can lead to the sinner’s detriment). /note, that is the orthodox Lutheran church, not the ultra-liberal lutherans who have abandoned scriptural teachings and substituted social justice and moral relativism.

AZfederalist on December 29, 2011 at 10:37 PM

Doesn’t this seem somewhat problematic? I thought the point of charities giving charity was so that government wouldn’t have to.

mrsmwp on December 29, 2011 at 10:15 PM

The state provides money for a service. Isn’t it smart for any organization which wants to extend their capabilities to use that money?

My church provides housing vouchers and a food bank. Some of the food is provided by us (we scavenge markets for slightly out of date food) and some surplus is provided by the Federal Government (thanks to 42). We do not choose to whom to give the food or the housing vouchers — the people are chosen by a county (government) agency, and we have no idea of knowing whether those people are Catholic or not — they show up at the parish hall with a voucher and we give them what the voucher says we should.

The various governments use us — and we use the government — in a mutually beneficial way. It is so because there are no religious precepts violated when we Catholics provide services to non-Catholics, and the government doesn’t have the person power to bag 350 bags of groceries per week or to visit landlords to see if they have a vacant unit they’d not mind having be used briefly as an “inn”.

unclesmrgol on December 29, 2011 at 10:37 PM

DESTROY ALL PRIVATE CHARITY…..

make the Federal Government the authority and decider of everything…..a Progressives’ dream….

…and Liberty’s nightmare.

PappyD61 on December 29, 2011 at 10:37 PM

Homosexuals raising children is a perversion to begin with.
If you have no biological interest in having children then please be consistent: there is no reason for you to raise them either.
What a tragedy!
And you my friend are the epitome of ignorance
theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 10:33 PM

Nice job of name calling. Now address the comment.

hoofhearted on December 29, 2011 at 10:38 PM

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 10:17 PM

I take issue with some of the statements in that letter (which is actually not from the American Bishops but from the Hispanic American Bishops), but I think you might concede that your paraphrasing was a little exaggerated and incendiary.
As I said, I do take issue with some of the general ideas expressed in the letter. But this is a pastoral letter by bishops addressing what they experience as a particular circumstance of human suffering and a such they are more concerned with ministering to the basic needs of these people than with the political or even legal aspects of the situation. This is not to say that I am necessarily in agreement with them, but I can understand how, from the sole perspective of christian charity, they might make these statements. I do not have the charge of these souls like they do, so as much as I might feel uncomfortable with this pastoral letter I do not sit in judgement of the bishops for it.

neuquenguy on December 29, 2011 at 10:38 PM

And you my friend are the epitome of ignorance

theoddmanout on December 29, 2011 at 10:33 PM

I live in Los Angeles and for the longest time “lived and let live” even though I have always known that the acts homosexuals engage in are not natural and prohibited by God…but you’ve gone too far now and I will no longer accept things which are prohibited when homosexuals and their cheerleaders are shoving their behavior in my face, trying to pervert my kids at school and trying to make my faith illegal… No, now you’re going to get a fight… I’m ashamed I was a coward and passive and accepted so much of this garbage.

CCRWM on December 29, 2011 at 10:46 PM

I’m still looking for the Clause, “Congress shall make no laws respecting homosexual conduct nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Maybe they left that out of my copy.

TXUS on December 29, 2011 at 10:30 PM

My copy is missing that clause as well.

It’s obvious that Illinois does not want Catholic Charities in the adoption business there. What a shame. I’m sure children will be MUCH better served now. \\

CantCureStupid on December 29, 2011 at 10:47 PM

This is not to say that I am necessarily in agreement with them, but I can understand how, from the sole perspective of christian charity, they might make these statements. I do not have the charge of these souls like they do, so as much as I might feel uncomfortable with this pastoral letter I do not sit in judgement of the bishops for it.

neuquenguy on December 29, 2011 at 10:38 PM

Well, neuquenquy, I guess you’re a better christian than I am. However, it is incorrect for you to say that I somehow misrepresented the wording and tone of the Bishops letter. They make it quite clear that they believe that this country has unjust immigration laws and is unjust and inhumane towards illegal immigrants.

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 10:49 PM

KickandSwimMom on December 29, 2011 at 10:17 PM

Wow. That letter is truly enraging and disgusting.

mrsmwp on December 29, 2011 at 10:49 PM

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