Paul: “Hamas was encouraged and really started by Israel”

posted at 1:40 pm on December 27, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Not long ago, Newt Gingrich got into some trouble for claiming that the Palestinians are an “invented people,” although there is some basis for that statement, as prior to the British Mandate there was no such official designation for “Palestine” — and the British clearly included present-day Jordan as a major part of “Palestine” in the mandate. Another Republican candidate offered a history lesson on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in 2009, a moment recalled by Jeff Dunetz in this clip from the House floor. In it, we discover that Israel “started” Hamas as a counterweight to Yasser Arafat, or something, and manages to blame the CIA for radicalizing Muslims and the US for supplying weapons and funds that “kill Palestinians”:

This may be why Paul doesn’t get a lot of support from his own party in Iowa or New Hampshire, as Byron York reports today:

In a hotly-contested Republican race, it appears that only about half of Paul’s supporters are Republicans. In Iowa, according to Rasmussen, just 51 percent of Paul supporters consider themselves Republicans. In New Hampshire, the number is 56 percent, according to Andrew Smith, head of the University of New Hampshire poll.

The same New Hampshire survey found that 87 percent of the people who support Romney consider themselves Republicans. For Newt Gingrich, it’s 85 percent.

So who is supporting Paul? In New Hampshire, Paul is the choice of just 13 percent of Republicans, according to the new poll, while he is the favorite of 36 percent of independents and 26 percent of Democrats who intend to vote in the primary. Paul leads in both non-Republican categories.

“Paul is doing the best job of getting those people who aren’t really Republicans but say they’re going to vote in the Republican primary,” explains Smith. Among that group are libertarians, dissatisfied independents and Democrats who are “trying to throw a monkey wrench in the campaign by voting for someone who is more philosophically extreme,” says Smith.

So who started Hamas?  Was it really Israel?  Er … no, not really, and the suggestion that Israel wanted Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO is simply ludicrous.  Hamas developed from a network of Muslim Brotherhood charities in Gaza in the mid-1980s.  The Muslim Brotherhood was one of the most notorious of anti-Israeli organizations in the region, formed in the 1920s in opposition to the collapse of the Caliphate and the British Mandate that followed. At the founding of Hamas, it called for “jihad” to seize Israel and create an Islamist state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.    They formed in direct opposition to the PLO (now called Fatah in the Palestinian Authority government), to some extent because Yasser Arafat was negotiating with Israel, albeit in bad faith while trying to drum up financial and political support in the West. Hamas gets its funding from Iran, hardly a disinterested third party in this conflict — and the main engine of radicalizing Muslims, eclipsing the Muslim Brotherhood ever since the Iranian revolution of 1979.

Paul only gets one thing substantially correct in this speech, which is that the US screwed up by pushing for an election in Gaza while Hamas had such a strong hold on the territory.  We did warn, however, that we would not work with terrorists in a Gaza government, and after the unilateral Israeli withdrawal in 2005 it would have been difficult to argue against elections in Gaza.  “Imposing” democracy in this case ended up backfiring, as it legitimized Hamas to some extent and made it more difficult to fight against their terrorism.  But that’s a far cry from claiming that Israel started Hamas, a statement that is so nutty that it should be by itself disqualifying for voters looking to select the next Republican nominee.

Update: A few people have e-mailed me this opinion piece from the WSJ in 2009 as “proof” that corroborates Paul’s claims.  It doesn’t back up Paul’s claim that Israel “started” Hamas, and it really doesn’t make the case that Israel encouraged the formation of Hamas, either.  The closest it comes is this:

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel’s destruction.

Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with “Yassins,” primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

How did Israel “encourage” Hamas?  By keeping tabs on it, as any intel service would have done:

Instead, Israel’s military-led administration in Gaza looked favorably on the paraplegic cleric, who set up a wide network of schools, clinics, a library and kindergartens. Sheikh Yassin formed the Islamist group Mujama al-Islamiya, which was officially recognized by Israel as a charity and then, in 1979, as an association. Israel also endorsed the establishment of the Islamic University of Gaza, which it now regards as a hotbed of militancy. The university was one of the first targets hit by Israeli warplanes in the recent war.

Brig. General Yosef Kastel, Gaza’s Israeli governor at the time, is too ill to comment, says his wife. But Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who took over as governor in Gaza in late 1979, says he had no illusions about Sheikh Yassin’s long-term intentions or the perils of political Islam. As Israel’s former military attache in Iran, he’d watched Islamic fervor topple the Shah. However, in Gaza, says Mr. Segev, “our main enemy was Fatah,” and the cleric “was still 100% peaceful” towards Israel. Former officials say Israel was also at the time wary of being viewed as an enemy of Islam.

Mr. Segev says he had regular contact with Sheikh Yassin, in part to keep an eye on him. He visited his mosque and met the cleric around a dozen times. It was illegal at the time for Israelis to meet anyone from the PLO. Mr. Segev later arranged for the cleric to be taken to Israel for hospital treatment. “We had no problems with him,” he says.

In other words, people want to “credit” Israel for creating Hamas because they didn’t oppose the establishment of (then) non-violent social charities.  Later, in 1987, the Muslim Brotherhood formed these charities into Hamas, which adopted violent jihad and the destruction of Israel as the key goals of its charter.  Israel didn’t stop it and continued for a brief time to maintain its contacts with the group until it launched an intifada, but that’s not the same thing as “creating Hamas,” or even “encouraging Hamas.”

Here’s the entire statement made on January 9th, 2009, from the Congressional Record:

Madam Speaker, I rise in opposition to this resolution, not because I am taking sides and picking who the bad guys are and who the good guys are, but I’m looking at this more from the angle of being a United States citizen, an American, and I think resolutions like this really do great harm to us. In many ways what is happening in the Middle East, and in particular with Gaza right now, we have some moral responsibility for both sides, because we provide help in funding for both Arab nations and Israel. And so we definitely have a moral responsibility. And especially now today, the weapons being used to kill so many Palestinians are American weapons and American funds essentially are being used for this.

But there is a political liability which I think is something that we fail to look at because too often there is so much blowback from our intervention in areas that we shouldn’t be involved in. Hamas, if you look at the history, you will find that Hamas was encouraged and actually started by Israel because they wanted Hamas to counteract Yasir Arafat. You say, Well, yeah, it was better then and served its purpose, but we didn’t want Hamas to do this. So then we, as Americans, say, Well, we have such a good system;
we’re going to impose this on the world. We’re going to invade Iraq and teach people how to be democrats. We want free elections. So we encouraged the Palestinians to have a free election. They do, and they elect Hamas.

So we first, indirectly and directly through Israel, helped establish Hamas. Then we have an election where Hamas becomes dominant then we have to kill them. It just doesn’t make sense. During the 1980s, we were allied with Osama bin Laden and we were contending with the Soviets. It was at that time our CIA thought it was good if we radicalize the Muslim world. So we finance the Madrassas school to radicalize the Muslims in order to compete with the Soviets. There is too much blowback.

There are a lot of reasons why we should oppose this resolution. It’s not in the interest of the United States, it is not in the interest of Israel either. I strongly oppose H. Res. 34, which was rushed to the floor with almost no prior notice and without consideration by the House Foreign Affairs Committee. The resolution clearly takes one side in a conflict that has nothing to do with the United States or U.S. interests. I am concerned that the weapons currently being used by Israel against the Palestinians in Gaza are made in America and paid for by American taxpayers. What will adopting this resolution do to the perception of the United States in the Muslim and Arab world? What kind of blowback
might we see from this? What moral responsibility do we have for the violence in Israel and Gaza after having provided so much military support to one side?

As an opponent of all violence, I am appalled by the practice of lobbing homemade rockets into Israel from Gaza. I am only grateful that, because of the primitive nature of these weapons, there have been so few casualties among innocent Israelis. But I am also appalled by the longstanding Israeli blockade of Gaza–a cruel act of war–and the tremendous loss of life that has resulted from the latest Israeli attack that started last month. There are now an estimated 700 dead Palestinians, most of whom are civilians. Many innocent children are among the dead. While the shooting of rockets into Israel is inexcusable, the violent actions of some people in Gaza does not justify killing Palestinians on this scale. Such collective punishment is immoral. At the very least, the U.S. Congress should not be loudly proclaiming its support for the Israeli government’s actions in Gaza.

Madam Speaker, this resolution will do nothing to reduce the fighting and bloodshed in the Middle East. The resolution in fact will lead the U.S. to become further involved in this conflict, promising “vigorous support and unwavering commitment to the welfare, security, and survival of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state.” Is it really in the interest of the United States to guarantee the survival of any foreign country? I believe it would be better to focus on the security and survival of the United States, the Constitution of which my colleagues and I swore to defend just this week at the beginning of the 111th Congress. I urge my colleagues to reject this resolution.


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Didn’t Helen Thomas retire?

Electrongod on December 27, 2011 at 1:44 PM

This may be why Paul doesn’t get a lot of support from his own party…

Ding, ding, ding! This is why Paul gets no support from me.

Fallon on December 27, 2011 at 1:46 PM

Paul also has claimed Gaza was/is a “Concentration camp”, that Israel was “Starving” Palestinians in Gaza(a lie the Red Cross rebutted) and in his book Liberty Defined, Paul praises Jimmy Carter and his book, “Peace not Apartheid”

jp on December 27, 2011 at 1:46 PM

A brief history of Hamas, the Islamic militant group that is in the incoming majority of the PA

— 1970s-1980s: Begins as offshoot of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood. Israel supported early growth as a counterbalance to Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization. Early activity concentrated on social and community issues.
— December 1987: Hamas officially forms as group days after outbreak of first Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation. Group targets Israeli soldiers and civilians in war to establish Islamic theocracy in Israel, West Bank and Gaza.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182900,00.html#ixzz1hlJX0bvB

plewis on December 27, 2011 at 1:46 PM

Ron Paul – the #1 choice of squirrels everywhere.

Because he’s nuts!

NoDonkey on December 27, 2011 at 1:46 PM

This, Paul in general, is Morally Repugnant.

jp on December 27, 2011 at 1:47 PM

Plus, American weapons and funds are killing Palestinians.

I see no problem with this.

These supposed “Palestinians” are just a conglomeration of arabs/muslims that no other arab country wants. They are the undesirable troublemakers of the region, and are a breeding ground for genocidal hatred.

portlandon on December 27, 2011 at 1:47 PM

What a loon this nutjob is…

OmahaConservative on December 27, 2011 at 1:47 PM

I support Israel, however, whether or not the US supports them doesn’t necessarily matter in the long run. They’ll be attacked, but they’ll never be completely wiped out. It says so in the Bible.

ted c on December 27, 2011 at 1:47 PM

What will Dante and JohnGalt23 say about this?

They’ll probably demand to know if we’ve watched a sufficient number of speeches by Ron Paul.

fossten on December 27, 2011 at 1:47 PM

“WeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEE are the prObLem…!” – Ron Paul

Seven Percent Solution on December 27, 2011 at 1:47 PM

Ron Paul write himself wild prescriptions.

andy85719 on December 27, 2011 at 1:48 PM

I’m not going to buy this until Jimmah weighs in on it.

fogw on December 27, 2011 at 1:48 PM

I will vote for anybody who uses the term “Senile Old Coot” to this idiots face.

xxessw on December 27, 2011 at 1:49 PM

He’s the Mayor of Crazy Town…

major dad on December 27, 2011 at 1:50 PM

This man scares the daylights out of me! He is on the same playing field as bho seems to be in regard to Israel? If Bibi and Israel thought they have problems now with bho, just look out if the worm is elected!
L

letget on December 27, 2011 at 1:51 PM

I was talking to my 93 year old grandpa the other night and even he said Paul was “not all there.”

Roymunson on December 27, 2011 at 1:51 PM

Nutjob. Next?

Kenosha Kid on December 27, 2011 at 1:51 PM

what a f___ing Fruitcake.

GhoulAid on December 27, 2011 at 1:53 PM

Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with “Yassins,” primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html

plewis on December 27, 2011 at 1:54 PM

The Israelis did provide support (money and freedom to operate)to Hamas and other groups as opposition to the secular PLO. That is not a crazy assertion. That’s a fact but when this support was taking place Hamas and the other groups hadn’t become sophisticated terror groups that they became. It’s not much different from the US support for the Mujihadeen. They were useful at pone point in time and adversaries in another.

lexhamfox on December 27, 2011 at 1:54 PM

This is part of Paul’s “Blowback theory” in which Evil actions by Hamas and/or Al-Qaeda are all due to the actions of the US/Israel.

He will tell any lie, omit any history he has to and hold to his theory and isolationist ideology.

jp on December 27, 2011 at 1:55 PM

So,let’s see:

1. US should not take sides between the moral and immoral, or between the good and the bad

2. Ron Paul is ignorant of pretty much all history, even recent history

3. Ron Paul does not think Jews have a right to defend themselves from terrorist attacks from Gaza.

OK, so he has right to those positions and that ignorance … so what is the big deal??

georgealbert on December 27, 2011 at 1:55 PM

In some ways, Saddam Hussein “Created” or well Financed and Harbored Hamas: http://husseinandterror.com

jp on December 27, 2011 at 1:56 PM

I know this man has a loyal, almost David following, but he scares the crap out of me. The guy is a loon.

As if our relationship with Israel isn’t strained enough (thanks, Barry…).

CantCureStupid on December 27, 2011 at 1:56 PM

RP is nuts. Even with some of his ok ideas, he comes across as nuts. Crazy uncle. Go back to the basement.

Palestine – no Arabs/Muslims actually WANT a sovereign state of Palestine. That would remove from the table one of the biggest “crimes” against the “Palestinians.” There are, however, seemingly endless other issues to keep them full of angst. They find offense in everything, from everyone – including their own.

Hueydriver on December 27, 2011 at 1:56 PM

It seems that in his dislike of Isreal that Dr. Paul will spew fictional propaganda to support his position. My biggest worry is that he may actually believe what he is saying.

Alferd Packer on December 27, 2011 at 1:57 PM

I am banging my head against the wall…and it doesn’t hurt as much as listening to him. Maybe I will just do that every day instead of following politics.

manyears on December 27, 2011 at 1:57 PM

But there is something bitterly ironic in Israel’s support for Fatah against Hamas—and it should be a lesson to governments everywhere that meddle in other states’ affairs. In the past, Israel supported Hamas against Fatah. Indeed, in the 1970s and 80s, Israel played a not insignificant role in encouraging Hamas’s emergence in the belief that such an Islamist group might help rupture support for the mass nationalist movement of Fatah

http://theamericanconservative.com/article/2007/feb/12/00017/

plewis on December 27, 2011 at 1:57 PM

Could the Republican field possibly be any worse? What a cruel joke that with the worst president ever in office, one even worse than Carter, we have this worthless clown posse running …makes one just want to weep!

CCRWM on December 27, 2011 at 1:57 PM

Wow, I really hope Paul doesn’t get the nomination.

vcferlita on December 27, 2011 at 1:58 PM

Here you go Ed. Straight from the people involved.

lexhamfox on December 27, 2011 at 1:59 PM

I think Paul may be wrong with his direct accusations about Israel but he’s certainly on the green so to speak.

First, MI6 and later the CIA played a prominent role in the development of the Muslim Brotherhood as an effective weapon against brewing Arab nationalism as seen with the Nasser movement in Egypt. The west did not like the fact that maverick individuals like Nasser were freezing the Anglo-American empire out from energy resources and key waterway access in the Middle East.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:00 PM

David = rabid… damn autocorrect

CantCureStupid on December 27, 2011 at 2:00 PM

Name one other true conservative in the top of the pack. Paul has stood by his principals through the years and is the only individual to truly want a smaller government. I can follow his line on thinking in this issue and don’t see an issue with it. Now you will label me as nuts as well, but you want conservative govenment yet continually vote for people that will not give it to you. That is called “stuck on stupid”.

davidcaskey on December 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM

Could the Republican field possibly be any worse?

CCRWM on December 27, 2011 at 1:57 PM

Do not count Ron Paul as part of the republican party.

He certainly doesn’t.

Rebar on December 27, 2011 at 2:02 PM

So,let’s see:

1. US should not take sides between the moral and immoral, or between the good and the bad

2. Ron Paul is ignorant of pretty much all history, even recent history

3. Ron Paul does not think Jews have a right to defend themselves from terrorist attacks from Gaza.

OK, so he has right to those positions and that ignorance … so what is the big deal??

georgealbert on December 27, 2011 at 1:55 PM

Agree. At the risk of much derision by other HAers, it reminds me of the history of Hitler. I think RP actually believes this stuff (his own view of the world, that is). He is delusional. Hitler was pure evil, yes – but also delusional in his world view. The delusion came first, and formed the worldview that he put into action. RP is delusional…But the good thing is, RP certainly isn’t charismatic. Actually, he doesn’t seem to be capable of a complete, coherent thought put forth verbally.

Hueydriver on December 27, 2011 at 2:03 PM

I did a lengthy research paper on Hamas about 6 years ago, and never found any evidence that Israel either supported or helped to found the organization. Hamas was birthed by the Muslim Brotherhood.

Time to STFU Ron.

Mr Galt on December 27, 2011 at 2:03 PM

you want conservative govenment yet continually vote for people that will not give it to you. That is called “stuck on stupid”.

davidcaskey on December 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM

I’m not of the opinion that trashing Israel and blaming them for the existance of Hamas is a conservative value.

Paul is crazy-glued to stupid.

fogw on December 27, 2011 at 2:06 PM

I did a lengthy research paper on Hamas about 6 years ago, and never found any evidence that Israel either supported or helped to found the organization. Hamas was birthed by the Muslim Brotherhood.

Time to STFU Ron.

Mr Galt on December 27, 2011 at 2:03 PM

Who do you think aided and helped the Muslim Brotherhood grow post WW2? You may not like that answer.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:06 PM

Daffy ba$tard.

tree hugging sister on December 27, 2011 at 2:06 PM

Didn’t Helen Thomas retire?

Electrongod on December 27, 2011 at 1:44 PM

Her hair is shorter, and a different color…can’t you tell?

KOOLAID2 on December 27, 2011 at 2:07 PM

Hueydriver

Agreed, Agreed, Agreed!!!

“Delusional” is the nicest thing you could say about this stuff.

Unfortunately, his fiscal ideas are a bit better and more rational.

CrazyGene on December 27, 2011 at 2:08 PM

Israel did view Hamas as a viable counter-balance to Fatah in the beginning. That ugly wench Hanan Ashwari was screaming about this years ago. And why Bush pushed to allow Hamas in the Gaza elections and why Israel accepted … I have no idea. Bush had “democracy” rotting his brain.

This says nothing about Paul’s overall position, but just the Hamas angle.

Interesting sidepoint:
It was 212 (213) Hamas people whom Israel had ejected to Lebanon back in ’91 or so. They camped out on the Lebanese border with something like 250 international “journalists” who recorded their plight. Meanwhile, Kuwait had unceremoniously ousted over 400,000 palis from Kuwait after the first Gulf War because they had been rabid Saddam supporters (as all the palis were, both times). No one even made mention of the Kuwaiti ejection, but the poor, widdle 200 hamas folks got front page press for months.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 27, 2011 at 2:08 PM

First, MI6 and later the CIA played a prominent role in the development of the Muslim Brotherhood as an effective weapon against brewing Arab nationalism as seen with the Nasser movement in Egypt.
Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:00 PM

You are a conspiracy nut who hates the US military… Everything you write here should carry a disclaimer.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:11 PM

I actually can see people…some people who support Ronnie Paul.

They would be of the LIBERAL MINDSET.

Anyone who is in the mindset of the Tea Party, Conservative, Common Sense or Establishment GOP should RUN as far away from this nut.

He should run in the Liberal..”tarian” primary…I think he’s confused as Gary Johnson was….they both don’t belong in the GOP primary.

coach1228 on December 27, 2011 at 2:12 PM

The Islamists get enough support from the current administration and the Democrats in general. The last thing we need is a loony old dingbat who thinks the Jooos are the source of all evil and that the Muslims are our friends.

If he’s so in love with the Muslims, why don’t he and Jimmah Carter form a pact and go over there to live in their society? That way they could stop irritating the rest of us.

hachiban on December 27, 2011 at 2:12 PM

Pitchforker

Sure, and they were responsible for the NAZI rise to power also.

What do you have to ingest to subscribe to the “victim is guilty” mindset?

If all of the Jews in the Middle East were exterminated, the “Palestinians” and other Islamic nuts would be trying to exterminate Christians, and each other. (Hmm, they’re doing that now.)

I guess those Coptic Christians are responsible for the growth of the MB in Egypt. And how about those Nigerian Catholics, they are surely responsible for the violence in that country.

After all, one of Christ’s foremost tenants was to kill or tax anyone who didn’t convert to Christianity, wasn’t it?

CrazyGene on December 27, 2011 at 2:13 PM

You are a conspiracy nut who hates the US military… Everything you write here should carry a disclaimer.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:11 PM

Hate the military? On the contrary. I simply don’t worship the military as if it is infallible and incorruptible.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:15 PM

The more that comes out about Paul the more I find myself thinking he is not in fact a racist, or an anti-Semite, or even really an isolationist.

He’s totally LOONY.
Franly it would be more re-assuring if he was just a Klan member rather than some off the wall loony…

CorporatePiggy on December 27, 2011 at 2:16 PM

Ed,
Its interesting to note you completely side-stepped the issue of the U.S. supplying weapons to Israel directly, as well as substantial financial aid which funds their own weapons programs.
Weapons systems they create with substantial financial and technological aid, which they then sell to countries which directly threaten American soldiers.

KMC1 on December 27, 2011 at 2:16 PM

Ron Paul’s statement on Hamas proves once again Ron Paul is a complete moron. Only crackpots support this idiot.

Sir Galahad the Pure on December 27, 2011 at 2:17 PM

Who do you think aided and helped the Muslim Brotherhood grow post WW2? You may not like that answer.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:06 PM

Au contraire, I am sure your answer will provide howls of derisive laughter.

Shoot!

CorporatePiggy on December 27, 2011 at 2:18 PM

Hate the military? On the contrary. I simply don’t worship the military as if it is infallible and incorruptible.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:15 PM

Comparing the people who serve in the US military to Nazis or the Soviets and drawing moral equivalencies to the terrorists they are fighting equals hate and ignorance.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:19 PM

Its interesting to note you completely side-stepped the issue of the U.S. supplying weapons to Israel directly, as well as substantial financial aid which funds their own weapons programs
Some of which are awesome and which we make extensive use of especially in the field of electronics.

Weapons systems they create with substantial financial and technological aid, which they then sell to countries which directly threaten American soldiers.

KMC1 on December 27, 2011 at 2:16 PM

Finding this little bit a tad hard to believe. Got any proof of Israel arming the enemies of the US?

CorporatePiggy on December 27, 2011 at 2:20 PM

Now you will label me as nuts as well…

davidcaskey on December 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM

You’re not nuts necessarily, just retarded.

catmman on December 27, 2011 at 2:20 PM

Dr. Paul needs someone to prepare his statements. Maybe he does already, but the message doesn’t seem to be communicated clearly to the average ‘merican voter…

Clearly he’s on the fringe of the right when it comes to foreign policy. And his comments on 09/11 are troubling. So let me ask the following rhetorical questions: Do Americans really think that Israel needs our help? Why doesn’t anybody talk about the thousands of Arabs (ie former Palestinians) integrated and living peacefully in Israeli society? Is knowing about a possible terrorist attack on 09/11 and not preventing it the same as causing it? Why do we think that humans want democracy in places where theocracy/tribal leaders are the norm?

Dr. Paul seems to be trying to answer these questions, but his answers are wrapped in language of anti-Semitism and conspiracy theories.

conservablogger on December 27, 2011 at 2:21 PM

In related news — I see…Islamist Extremists Only Start Fires.Egypt’s richest library goes up in smoke, destroying up to 200,000 books of incomparable historical value; this loss to humanity is indescribable.

Mutnodjmet on December 27, 2011 at 2:23 PM

He can always get a job at MSLSD or NPR after this is over

Southernblogger on December 27, 2011 at 2:24 PM

Sure, and they were responsible for the NAZI rise to power also.

What do you have to ingest to subscribe to the “victim is guilty” mindset?

If all of the Jews in the Middle East were exterminated, the “Palestinians” and other Islamic nuts would be trying to exterminate Christians, and each other. (Hmm, they’re doing that now.)

I guess those Coptic Christians are responsible for the growth of the MB in Egypt. And how about those Nigerian Catholics, they are surely responsible for the violence in that country.

After all, one of Christ’s foremost tenants was to kill or tax anyone who didn’t convert to Christianity, wasn’t it?

CrazyGene on December 27, 2011 at 2:13 PM

Our intelligence services for years has been supporting questionable organizations for short-term national interest as well as PERSONAL gain. Let’s not try to play coy. The creation of the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan to combat the Soviets. The Muslim Brotherhood used to incite resistance against the Shah in Iran. The Ba’athists in Iraq to be pitted against Khomeini and the Iranians. The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry………..

Secondly, I’m not an apologist for Muslim extremism, however, certain policies are uniting these savages under a common banner. That is not a trend I’d like to see.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:24 PM

Wrong Paul – Always

Kini on December 27, 2011 at 2:25 PM

CrazyGene on December 27, 2011 at 2:08 PM

Yeah. Some of his “ideas” are ok, but amount to a the proverbial broken clock…it’s all the other bat$h1t crazy stuff that is the problem. (Almost said it worries me, but it honestly doesn’t – he is the poster child for the Unelectable…for POTUS that is…since enough of his constituents are apparently similarly nuts, electing him to office multiple times…who’s crazy now?)

Hueydriver on December 27, 2011 at 2:26 PM

************************ NUTS *****************************

canopfor on December 27, 2011 at 2:26 PM

This is simply more equivalence from Herr Doktor to justify his philosophy.

Everything is the fault of the US (or the West, generally). Herr Doktor and the Paultards will go back as far as they need at any point in history to justify and excuse their nuttiness.

catmman on December 27, 2011 at 2:28 PM

Our intelligence services for years has been supporting questionable organizations for short-term national interest as well as PERSONAL gain. Let’s not try to play coy. The creation of the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan to combat the Soviets. The Muslim Brotherhood used to incite resistance against the Shah in Iran. The Ba’athists in Iraq to be pitted against Khomeini and the Iranians. The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry………..

Secondly, I’m not an apologist for Muslim extremism, however, certain policies are uniting these savages under a common banner. That is not a trend I’d like to see.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:24 PM

So you are “not an apologist for Muslim extremism”, yet you take the position that we created with the CIA and MI6 and we are uniting it… Yeah, it sounds like you are an apologist to me. Islamic terrorism has existed for 1400 years. Was that the CIA’s fault back then as well?

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:28 PM

Comparing the people who serve in the US military to Nazis or the Soviets and drawing moral equivalencies to the terrorists they are fighting equals hate and ignorance.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:19 PM

So you’re saying that highly regimented, cohesive chain of command is impervious to the slide that the Nazis and Soviets succumbed to? Then why did we have U.S. troops patrolling the New Orleans area post Katrina and thus violating Posse Comitatus? Were they just following orders or they didn’t think their oath out fully?

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:29 PM

Was just thinking to myself – if RP actually got the GOP nom, SNL would be funny again for a few months…nothing else would be funny though.

Hueydriver on December 27, 2011 at 2:30 PM

Wrong Paul – Always

Kini on December 27, 2011 at 2:25 PM

Kini:Boy the Lefty Operatives are gonna have riot with this,if
RP gets the nomination.Between Hamas crazy talk,and
his letters,Ron Paul will effectively hand Obama a win!:)

canopfor on December 27, 2011 at 2:30 PM

I thought Dr. Paul taught Sunday School. Evidently, he never read Genesis 12: 1-3.

kingsjester on December 27, 2011 at 2:30 PM

“Paul is doing the best job of getting those people who aren’t really Republicans but say they’re going to vote in the Republican primary,”

100%

Tim_CA on December 27, 2011 at 2:31 PM

Was that the CIA’s fault back then as well?

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:28 PM

Nah. That was the fault of the Catholics/Christians. Islamists are never to blame for anything. /

catmman on December 27, 2011 at 2:31 PM

Ron Paul – Louis Farrakhan 2012!

More nuts than a ton of Snickers!

More snickers than a tons of nuts!

profitsbeard on December 27, 2011 at 2:31 PM

CorporatePiggy on December 27, 2011 at 2:20 PM

Was that your comment about their electronics? You messed up the quote I think.

Why is it good to create these jobs in Israel, instead of the U.S.? Would it not be a better, more intelligent solution to create this knowledge base in the United States instead?? If Israel wanted the capability, we could then SELL it to them, rather than prop up a bunch of high tech jobs in another country. Another country, incidentally, which sells their technology to other countries, who can then use it against tue U.S..

And please tell me you don’t just blindly jump into any conversation about Israel without knowing anything about them??? Are you seriously not aware of their weapons sales, globally???? Really???

Because I’ll tell ya what; if China ever decides they’ve had enough of Taiwan’s little seperatist movement, we’re going to lose a lot of good men and women because of Israel. And it soumds like you’re not even aware the danger exists.

KMC1 on December 27, 2011 at 2:31 PM

What is the latest polling data for Iowa? Is it possible that Iowans still favor this racist clown masquerading as a Republican?

The Count on December 27, 2011 at 2:32 PM

So deep down he really hates Jews. But hey man, he’s for legal pot. So let’s make him President of the United States.
SA

Hummer53 on December 27, 2011 at 2:32 PM

So you are “not an apologist for Muslim extremism”, yet you take the position that we created with the CIA and MI6 and we are uniting it… Yeah, it sounds like you are an apologist to me. Islamic terrorism has existed for 1400 years. Was that the CIA’s fault back then as well?

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:28 PM

Muslim extremism goes back to the 13th century when the Turks destroyed and enslaved the Christian Serb empire. I agree with you. With that said, I’m not a fan of manipulating unstable people like this and not expecting some sort of boomerang effect. You’re heard the old saying, “Mess with the bull and get the horns?”

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:32 PM

Re.Pitchforker

So you’re saying that highly regimented, cohesive chain of command is impervious to the slide that the Nazis and Soviets succumbed to?

Aside from that not being what you wrote, you disingenuous liar, yes; The US military swwears an oath to an idea, not a Führer.

Then why did we have U.S. troops patrolling the New Orleans area post Katrina and thus violating Posse Comitatus? Were they just following orders or they didn’t think their oath out fully?

The national guard patrolling the streets at the request of the governor is not a violation of the Posse Comitatus act, regardless of what Alex Jones told you.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:34 PM

In related news — I see…Islamist Extremists Only Start Fires.Egypt’s richest library goes up in smoke, destroying up to 200,000 books of incomparable historical value; this loss to humanity is indescribable.

Mutnodjmet on December 27, 2011 at 2:23 PM

Too had these people never heard of the Internet. Wouod have been tough to burn 200k ebooks.

Jus sayin’

KMC1 on December 27, 2011 at 2:34 PM

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:29 PM

They had to be in New Orleans anyway to make sure the charges they placed on the levees blew properly, duh.

catmman on December 27, 2011 at 2:36 PM

Re.Pitchforker

Muslim extremism goes back to the 13th century when the Turks destroyed and enslaved the Christian Serb empire.

It goes back to the “prophet” murdering and enslaving whomever got in his way.

I’m not a fan of manipulating unstable people….

Sure you are, you are devoted to Ron Paul and that is how he has made his political fortune: manipulating unstable people.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:37 PM

************************ NUTS *****************************

canopfor on December 27, 2011 at 2:26 PM

+100

MNH on December 27, 2011 at 2:38 PM

I will vote for anybody who uses the term “Senile Old Coot” to this idiots face.

xxessw on December 27, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Too bad due to our PC culture that we can’t do that. Just imagine the outcry over the lack of respect and decorum if someone actually said that to Rumpelstiltskin! Of course the ridiculous double standard is that people would have this selective moral outrage while completely ignoring RuPaul’s incendiary Blame America First nonsense!

Back in 2008, Rudy had a great moment in a debate when he put RuPaul in his place saying that he usually hears such nonsense from the left and demanded an apology from RuPaul for blaming America for 9/11.

During the last debate, Bachmann called out RuPaul and completely schooled him on the issues, even mentioning that it’s in the Iranian Constitution to spreak jihad!

LevinFan on December 27, 2011 at 2:39 PM

Why is it good to create these jobs in Israel, instead of the U.S.? Would it not be a better, more intelligent solution to create this knowledge base in the United States instead??

Sure, but we need the best we can buy *now*. And btw we do create some excellent weapons tech that we do sell to very suspect countries (ahem Pakistan).

The thing is, if a friendly country has the better tech option and we need it now – we should buy it now. Worry about beating them at their own tech game at the same time, but tactical imperatives come first.

And please tell me you don’t just blindly jump into any conversation about Israel without knowing anything about them??? Are you seriously not aware of their weapons sales, globally???? Really???

I have a passing acquaintance with the global marketplace, yes. You’re trying to make a point here – make it.

Because I’ll tell ya what; if China ever decides they’ve had enough of Taiwan’s little seperatist movement, we’re going to lose a lot of good men and women because of Israel. And it soumds like you’re not even aware the danger exists.

KMC1 on December 27, 2011 at 2:31 PM

Please back them one up with facts.

CorporatePiggy on December 27, 2011 at 2:39 PM

Hamas
*****

Hamas is the Arabic acronym for “The Islamic Resistance Movement” (Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyya). Since 2007, Hamas has controlled the Gaza Strip.

Hamas grew out of the ideology and practice of the Islamic fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood movement that arose in Egypt in the 1920s and it was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement’s spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma Al Islami. Initially, the organization followed the Muslim Brotherhood’s model of acting primarily as a social welfare agency that catered especially to the Palestinian refugees in the Gaza Strip and, over time, developed a good reputation for improving the lives of Palestinians. Hamas also exerted its influence through the mosques. Today, Hamas is intimitately tied to the Islamic regimes in Syria and Iran.

In August 1988, Hamas published the Islamic Covenant, which makes clear the organization is opposed to Israel’s existence in any form. It states that “there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad (holy war).” The group warns that any Muslim who leaves “the circle of struggle with Zionism” is guilty of “high treason.” Hamas’ platform calls for the creation of an Islamic republic in Palestine that would replace Israel. Muslims should “raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine,” it says.

Hamas stresses jihad as the sole and immediate means to solve the problem of Palestine. Hamas aims to create an Islamic state in all of Palestine. The immediate means to achieve this goal is the escalation of the armed struggle, and ultimately jihad, with the participation not only of Palestinian Muslims but of the entire Islamic world.

Hamas’ violent activities are run by two central departments, which were established before the intifada. One is Hamas’ military arm, created in 1982 in Gaza by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. In the early 1980′s, the group began amassing arms for use against Israel. After it was uncovered in 1984, Yassin was imprisoned. He was freed as part of a 1985 prisoner exchange between Israel and PFLP-GC leader Ahmed Jibril.

A second Hamas arm called the Majd was created by Yassin in 1986 to monitor Arabs deemed to be “collaborating” with Israel or failing to follow Islamic doctrine. In 1988, a similar Hamas operation began in the West Bank.

The military apparatus of Hamas
(More….)
==========

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hamas.html

canopfor on December 27, 2011 at 2:40 PM

Romney looks like a godsend next to Ron Paul.

Soon it will be Anybody But Ron Paul.

haner on December 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM

************************ NUTS *****************************

canopfor on December 27, 2011 at 2:26 PM
+100

MNH on December 27, 2011 at 2:38 PM

MNH:——-:)

canopfor on December 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM

The national guard patrolling the streets at the request of the governor is not a violation of the Posse Comitatus act, regardless of what Alex Jones told you.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:34 PM

You’re not entirely right.
Under Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 of the Constitution, the National Guard – considered a state militia – is authorized to “execute the laws of the Union and suppress Insurrections and repel Invasion.” The Constitution says nothing about dispatching the military to fight domestic crime, a task usually undertaken by local law enforcement.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:42 PM

They had to be in New Orleans anyway to make sure the charges they placed on the levees blew properly, duh.

catmman on December 27, 2011 at 2:36 PM

Heh.

Tim_CA on December 27, 2011 at 2:42 PM

Tsk. Tsk. National Guard caught confiscating weapons from law abiding citizens. I weep for this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCX1OfhckC8

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:44 PM

Romney looks like a godsend next to Ron Paul.

Soon it will be Anybody But Ron Paul.

haner on December 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM

I’m not a delusional paranoid – but you almost couldn’t have planned it better.

Tim_CA on December 27, 2011 at 2:45 PM

So who is supporting Paul? In New Hampshire, Paul is the choice of just 13 percent of Republicans, according to the new poll, while he is the favorite of 36 percent of independents and 26 percent of Democrats who intend to vote in the primary. Paul leads in both non-Republican categories.

This is a major problem. Allowing Independents and Democrats to vote in a Republican primary turns it into a joke.

Why this is allowed is moronic.

If you want to vote in a party primary have the backbone to register with that party ahead of time (NOT ON THE SAME DAY).

LevinFan on December 27, 2011 at 2:46 PM

We shouldn’t be giving wepons or money to any country in the middle east and that includes Israel. Let Israel and the muzzies have the fight they are so desperately spoiling for and then cut a deal with whoever rises from the ashes.

tommyboy on December 27, 2011 at 2:47 PM

Pitchforker;

At least your consistent… delusional and a tool, but consistent.

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 27, 2011 at 2:48 PM

You’re not entirely right.
Under Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 of the Constitution, the National Guard – considered a state militia – is authorized to “execute the laws of the Union and suppress Insurrections and repel Invasion.” The Constitution says nothing about dispatching the military to fight domestic crime, a task usually undertaken by local law enforcement.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:42 PM

Hello…”authorized to “execute the laws of the Union”. The act itself states that the state government is allowed to use federal recourses to maintain “law and order”. Yeah, Alex Jones let you and the rest of his clinical paranoiac audience down.
Regardless, this little factoid is irrelevant to you comparing our troops actions in Iraq and Afghanistan to the actions of the Nazis.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:50 PM

“…execute the laws of the Union…The Constitution says nothing about dispatching the military to fight domestic crime…”

Laws (“of the Union”) are typically passed to “fight…crime.” So what laws should the governor of a state not utilize the NG to enforce?

Hueydriver on December 27, 2011 at 2:51 PM

Sure you are, you are devoted to Ron Paul and that is how he has made his political fortune: manipulating unstable people.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:37 PM

+1000

LevinFan on December 27, 2011 at 2:51 PM

I weep for this country.

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:44 PM

Leave. Find someplace better. One that isn’t defended by “Nazis”.

V7_Sport on December 27, 2011 at 2:51 PM

Sure, but we need the best we can buy *now*. And btw we do create some excellent weapons tech that we do sell to very suspect countries (ahem Pakistan).

The thing is, if a friendly country has the better tech option and we need it now – we should buy it now. Worry about beating them at their own tech game at the same time, but tactical imperatives come first.

I have a passing acquaintance with the global marketplace, yes. You’re trying to make a point here – make it.

Please back them one up with facts.

CorporatePiggy on December

Your argument is circular. The reason we would need it “now” is because we outsourced and subsidized the capability to begin with.

And you’re failing to differentiate between the U.S. selling weapons and our “ally” doing it. You’re also not comparing apples to apples, since the “customer base” is different. Its not a moral equivalency test as you’re trying to make it out to be.

And in regards to your “passing knowledge” – if you’re too lazy to use google thats your own problem. I did state FACTS when I told you Israel sells weapons to our enemies. You not being aware of this FACT, does not implicate MY truthfulness. So project all you want, but you’re the one in this discussion who’s short on facts.

KMC1 on December 27, 2011 at 2:51 PM

Pitchforker;

At least your consistent… delusional and a tool, but consistent.

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 27, 2011 at 2:48 PM

Surprised you weren’t outraged about this, being an advocate for the 2nd amendment & all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA4JCKwEpfQ

Pitchforker on December 27, 2011 at 2:51 PM

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