Isn’t it funny that the4 only way that an atheist can stand up for their rights in expressing their beleifs is to deny others the right to express their beliefs.

Telling isn’t it…….

Individualist on December 27, 2011 at 11:53 AM

No, but it’s funny when someone like you thinks that… The story as I understand it is that there is a park that allows multiple permits for people to erect all manner of displays…

Which makes me kind of wonder. Why would the city allow so many displays, each with a “brought to you by the church of latter day saints”, “brought to you by the Danbury Baptist church”, brought to you by the San Diego Catholic church”, etc…

It’s like each church is not only using the park as a place to “remind” people of Jesus and the crucifixion (should really be spelled cruciFICTION), but also as a place to advertise their church as well.

“I’m part of a growing movement in America of atheists standing up for their rights. It’s a very exciting time for us that we’re having more of an impact in our society,” said Damon Vix, the organizer of the atheist group.

Isn’t it funny that the4 only way that an atheist can stand up for their rights in expressing their beleifs is to deny others the right to express their beliefs.

Telling isn’t it…….

Hard Right on December 27, 2011 at 10:48 AM

It’s OK Hard right. I get it… When I point out the obvious, I get branded with a mental illness.

So you’re an agnostic on this topic, and you and others here are entitled to believe what you want of course. I’m not going to force anyone to believe otherwise, but if you’re going to make truth claims about a topic, be prepared to back it up with something more substantial than hearsay from ancient documents.

“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision”

“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence”

“There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed”

- Bertrand Russell

insidiator on December 27, 2011 at 8:45 AM

I don’t believe Crenshaw Christian Center Los Angeles is going anywhere, anytime soon.

If there are any Christians or conservatives left in California, they best GTFO while the getting is good!

Anybody staying is on their own!

njrob on December 26, 2011 at 10:27 PM

Well you got me pegged wrong on my feelings for Jesus. I DON’T hate the man, if he even existed (could just be another myth like the thousands of others that arose in various civilizations around the world in ancient times.)

Nevertheless, I applaud a lot of the actions of Jesus, and believe he had a lot right in regards to how we should treat one another. But being the deliverer of good ethics and teachings doesn’t automatically confer some credibility to his divinity claims (or those of his followers).

I’m NOT in a sad place my friend, but I do find it sad that so many fall for the obviously fallacious representations of the god we all imagine.

I’m being facetious of course, but I imagine god had a few terse words for the writers of the bible when they died and went to heaven… For portraying him as they did and presuming to speak for him; ie the jealous, petty, malevolent, capricious god of the old testament, and the slightly less bloodthirsty one of the new… Or the Korans representation of him when that books auspicious writers died and acted as if THEY could speak for god as well.

Wouldn’t it be just hilarious if we truly had souls where if we died and went to whatever heaven you want to choose, and god meets you for the very first time (really), and he turns out scolding you for believing all that crap in the bible/koran/insert religious text here?

;-)

SauerKraut537 on December 26, 2011 at 7:17 PM

I forgive you of your bigotry towards Christians and your obvious hatred towards our Lord Jesus Christ. I know you are coming from a sad place in your life as you have turned your back towards our Lord and Savior. I will pray for you and hope that someday you will come back into His fold. You are our prodigal son. We are waiting for you.

listens2glenn on December 26, 2011 at 2:08 PM

Saying Jesus is lord doesn’t make it so listens2glenn…

No matter how many times you repeat the mantra, the dogma, the eschatology, the divinity claims, it doesn’t make it so.

You are also guilty of Argumentum ad Populum (another logical fallacy) in the sense that you are taking all these disparate sub beliefs of Christianity and “unifying” them under the banner Jesus is Lord. This is nothing more than sophistry.

Just because the rest of humanity can see a god as a possibility, doesn’t mean you have to prostrate yourself before the imaginations of other men.

You assume you NEED eternal security bro! ASSUME, that’s all faith is to you. You think that if you can just assume it into existence that it then becomes real?

You assume you NEED eternal security, but from whom pray tell?

The very same god you kneel before, but is that really god, or just OTHER MEN’S IDEAS about him?

In response, a leader of the atheist group says he’s just looking for evenhanded treatment to present his beliefs in a public space…

These people aren’t atheists, they’re antitheists.

I feel bad for Allahpundit. Everyone apologizes to him in advance. He’s like a ‘protected class’ whenever anyone talks about religion. Doesn’t he know you guys don’t hate him? Haven’t you worked with him long enough for him to feel that its not a pointed attack at him when you talk about these issues?

Just say your piece. Let Allahpundit say his. We all know his work speaks for itself.

Pretty soon the writers of this blog will have to preface everything with a “with apologies in advance to fill in your protected class here: women, pets, trees, coal miners, those who dislike vanilla ice cream”

COME ON! Stop it.
IMO.

What you fail to realize is that today in Christianity we have schisms upon schisms. That certain sects of Christianity emphasize certain things and others others.

The point is that every sect of Christianity thinks that their rendition of the basic theology is the one true rendition. That people who think other things about it are “mislead”, or led down the wrong path, etc.

SauerKraut537 on December 26, 2011 at 12:14 PM

Actually, I’m pretty sure that I agree with you over the multiple, numerous “schisms upon schisms” in christianity. There are a number of organized, identifiable-by-name denominations beginning with the Roman Catholic Church, (Eastern Orthodoxy?),and then branching out into more Protestant groups than I care to name.
Then there are sub-groups within each of those denominations, and then sub-sub-groups within the sub-groups, etc, etc, etc. Then there is a growing number of non-denominational independent churches, here and there. That’s one point that I’m pretty sure you and I are in-synch on.

But there is one point-of-truth that all persons claiming to be christian believers should be able to come together on.

And it’s those three words: Jesus Is Lord, spoken as a three-word sentence/statement in exactly that sequence.
Recognizing that, and prayerfully accepting Jesus as Lord is all that’s necessary for your own individual “eternal security.”

If anyone claims to be a christian believer, but can’t agree with the simple premise in that three-word statement, I want to know why.

If anyone disagrees with me over anything else besides that, fine.

But as to christians disagreeing with each other over THOUSANDS of different doctrinal or theological issues; I can’t see that going away before the second coming. I didn’t get that from the Bible, that’s just my opinion, based on experience.

When they do actually deconvert or come out of the closet, they are often marginalized and cut off by their social groups until they repent and come back into the fold.

…

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Poor Sauerkraut. Can’t let go of his bitterness, even on Christmas Day.

kingsjester on December 25, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Poor Kingsjester, believing in myths and fairy tales because he’s scared of what comes after.

;-)

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:40 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Now we understand fully the meaning of his name.

unclesmrgol on December 25, 2011 at 1:39 PM

you understand little if you think that, whatever that is. ;-)

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:50 PM

Heh.

Do you suppose that I am here to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on, a household of five will be divided: three against two and two against three; father opposed to son, son to father, mother to daughter, daughter to mother, mother-in-law to daughter-in-law, daughter-in-law to mother-in-law.

Heart-held beliefs bring division. You have your beliefs, and they have theirs.

On what qualifying criteria do you base the claim that you were a christian for 40 years? (that’s another question that could be to any of us here)

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 10:47 PM

You know listens2glenn, it doesn’t matter what I say about my beliefs and my past as a Christian. No matter what I say you will try to pick it apart and say that I somehow wasn’t a Christian. That I have some aspect of the belief system wrong and that I wasn’t a true Christian.

You’ve been guilty many times before of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. Saying that I misread something, or misunderstood some aspect of the faith and that my misreading disqualifies me and my claim.

An example of the No True Scotsman fallacy goes like this…

Alice: All Scotsmen enjoy haggis.
Bob: My uncle is a Scotsman, and he doesn’t like haggis!
Alice: Well, all true Scotsmen like haggis.

What you fail to realize is that today in Christianity we have schisms upon schisms. That certain sects of Christianity emphasize certain things and others others.

The point is that every sect of Christianity thinks that their rendition of the basic theology is the one true rendition. That people who think other things about it are “mislead”, or led down the wrong path, etc.

Whatever dude.

As I said before, you erect whatever objections I bring up against Christianity that you can, and all so you can continue believing in the fairy tale you want to believe in.

The uproar over a few nativity displays each year in contrast to serious issues of morality and public exercise of one’s faith seem overblown. The question shouldn’t how can one use the system to keep people of faith out of the public, but how does the government allow appropriate access to all at appropriate times.

I agree. You Christians are really making much ado about nothing. There was a lottery and the atheists won most of the spots. You’ve still got thousands of churches all over the country where you can display and profess your mythology unhindered.

Harbingeing on December 26, 2011 at 2:04 AM

Shhhhhhhhhhhh . . . . not so loud

If the others hear you, you’ll be persecuted.

But glad to hear you had a wonderful experience at Reagan Library. : )

As I would never ask someone to forsake their own beliefs, regardless of how irrational they may be or how distasteful their methods of publicly spewing them happen to be. It is not my intention to belittle those who hold fast to atheism, not even the more militant variety. Instead of taking an opposing view I will suggest a course of action that will enable them to more strongly hold to their convictions.

Like me I suspect that quite a few people carry on their person a type of card stating what their religion is and a name and contact number of their clergyman in case of emergencies. More often some sort of medical information identifying those with diabetes or various other conditions can be found, and of course things like blood type appear right on our drivers licenses and also authorize whether or not we are willing to donate our organs in case of any fatality. So here is what I would suggest to help comfort those fellow citizens who are so offended and/or traumatized by the sight of religious symbols, and who must wrestle with the pain of being so misunderstood and marginalized during our faith-based holidays; that they carry some such identification that they are atheists and that religion is greatly offensive to them. Furthermore this official ID card should state that no prayers are to be said for them, that no clergy or church participate in any way, shape, or form in disposal of the remains, that should he, in panic/terror/pain ask for any religious help it is to be denied, and most importantly, explicitly instruct that in event of an emergency the subject is NOT, even in critcal cases of impending death, to be taken to any hospital or health care facility named St. Joseph, St. Vincent, St. John, St. Elizabeth, St. Luke, St. Anthony St. ANYTHING, Mt. Sinai, Hebrew, Congregational, Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Sisters of Mercy, Sisters of Charity, Sacred Heart, Holy Sacrament, Beth Israel, Good Samaritan, Imaaculate, and any thing with “Our Lady” in the title.

So what do you think guys? You listening SauerKraut? I’m only trying to help you stick to your principles more strongly. So if you are not willing to put it all out there for your beliefs, shut the hell up with your sarcastic and insecure condescension and let people of faith enjoy their traditions. No one is forcing you to celebrate anything.

Yet, Christians face teaching in schools paid for with their taxes, government sponsored family planning, and new definitions of diversity and protected groups that goes against their faith, and at the same time, some communities are now restricting public facilities from religious services and meetings.

The uproar over a few nativity displays each year in contrast to serious issues of morality and public exercise of one’s faith seem overblown. The question shouldn’t how can one use the system to keep people of faith out of the public, but how does the government allow appropriate access to all at appropriate times.

This article is just an example of one group being mean and spiteful, during a special religious holiday. Sadly, there are many other weeks available for the atheists to use the park–but they know that no one will drive by to read their messages.

However, I just made my first visit to the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and museum, and spent all day Christmas Eve in there. To state merely that I had a “profound experience” there would hardly suffice.

When you read the inspired words written in his own hand and get a sense of how special a man Reagan was, and when you see how grounded in faith his entire life was and how it was woven into everything he did, it becomes much harder to deny the existence of what most refer to as “God”.

Just sayin – After reading his handwritten words, expressing concepts and ideas that far transcend a mere secular, material level of human understanding, I can’t logically conclude anything but that Ronald Reagan was truly one who was divinely inspired. I don’t know how much more proof I will require, but my visit to Ronald Reagan’s magnificent final resting place tore a few more bricks out of my wall.