California atheists block out nativity scenes

posted at 10:30 am on December 24, 2011 by Jazz Shaw

I don’t like dredging up that whole “war on Christmas” thing, but (with apologies in advance to Allahpundit) this story kind of gets under my skin. In Santa Monica, California, there is apparently one particular stretch of road alongside a park which has traditionally been set aside for Christmas displays. The nativity scenes on display have been popular with residents and tourists. But in order to be fair to everyone, the city used a lottery to allocate space to groups wishing to put up Creche displays and related scenes. Now, a group of atheists are accused of swamping the lottery and taking over the lots.

This year, however, atheists have taken over most of the two-block stretch, nearly shutting out and angering a group of churches who contend the atheists have organized against the Christians and gamed a city lottery process allocating the holiday exhibit space.

In response, a leader of the atheist group says he’s just looking for evenhanded treatment to present his beliefs in a public space — and goes so far as to say that the city shouldn’t even be allowing any religious or even atheist expression in the park.

That’s why he and his group have put nothing on half of the park exhibit spaces that they’ve secured from the city this year.

The atheists are declaring the politically left-leaning seaside town of Santa Monica as their latest battleground in a national movement to assert their rights.

“I’m part of a growing movement in America of atheists standing up for their rights. It’s a very exciting time for us that we’re having more of an impact in our society,” said Damon Vix, the organizer of the atheist group.

Yes, you’re having a big “impact” on the local society, alright. You’re getting everyone angry at you and ruining their holiday season to no apparent purpose. In the interview, Mr. Vix makes it clear that he has no interest in seeing other people’s views being represented – he just doesn’t want the Christians to use it.

In the interest of fairness, I could see if competing groups wanted to use some of the lots for an alternative display. If somebody wants to put up a big menorah on one of the lots, I don’t think anyone is going to get too worked up over it. And for these atheists, if they had something in mind as an alternative message… even a Festivus pole and a wrestling mat for some feats of strength, I’d probably have to give them some support. But to lock off the land to leave it empty rather than allow a nativity scene? That’s not some fight for equality or freedom. That’s just being a Grinch.

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G0d is neither provable nor falsifiable. Religious people believe in G0d is spite of the fact that He is not provable; atheists believe that G0d categorically does not exist despite the fact that he is non-falsifiable. While atheism may not be a religion, it is just as much a belief system, a faith-based system as religion. The only intellectually honest path for a skeptic is agnosticism; to them I say, “Get over yourself.”

Merry Christmas Eve and a Happy 5th candle of Hanuka. To you atheists–happy “One sign . . . caged within a chain link fence”.

smellthecoffee on December 24, 2011 at 11:52 PM

Atheism does not exist!!

May God Bless the United States of America and have mercy on our souls!

Merry CHRISTMAS to all and to all a good night!

long_cat on December 24, 2011 at 11:38 PM

That’s right. Atheists are just people being dishonest with themselves.
WAIT A MINUTE, . . . . . that’s what they say about us!
The IRONY! ! !

Anyway, Merry Christ Mass to you L_C!

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 11:53 PM

“I’m part of a growing movement in America of atheists standing up for their rights. It’s a very exciting time for us that we’re having more of an impact in our society,” said Damon Vix, the organizer of the atheist group.

Nope. He’s just a jerk.

Murf76 on December 25, 2011 at 12:00 AM

smellthecoffee on December 24, 2011 at 11:52 PM

I believe God’s existence can be proven; scientifically no less.

But I’m not going to “put you on the rack” for rejecting him.
Nope, suit yourself; live and let live.

(Hello . . . Michael Palin? Yeah . . . I got another one . . .)

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:01 AM

“I’m part of a growing movement in America of atheists standing up for their rights. It’s a very exciting time for us that we’re having more of an impact in our society,” said Damon Vix, the organizer of the atheist group.

Nope. He’s just a jerk.

Murf76 on December 25, 2011 at 12:00 AM

I believe he’s worse–he is just as much a hypocrite as any Christian he would accuse, because someone who believes in Nothing cannot have impact on Anything.

He exaggerates the power of his own void.

rwenger43 on December 25, 2011 at 12:04 AM

Nope. He’s just a jerk.

Murf76 on December 25, 2011 at 12:00 AM

He’s also a dozer who doesn’t know what side his bread is buttered on. A “freelance prop maker” ought to be useful to people who are making creche displays. He might be able to take them on as clients, but nooooooooooo–ideology come first, apparently.

smellthecoffee on December 25, 2011 at 12:06 AM

But I’m not going to “put you on the rack” for rejecting him.
Nope, suit yourself; live and let live.

(Hello . . . Michael Palin? Yeah . . . I got another one . . .)

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:01 AM

I’m not rejecting Him. But I’m good with just believing; if you’ve worked out a proof, more power to you.

smellthecoffee on December 25, 2011 at 12:09 AM

You must have been still wrapping presents like me. :-)

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 11:41 PM

I used to. Now the wife does it all.

But I do stand over her with a whip, making sure she does it right. : )

Uh oh . . . . . I think she saw me type that line . . . . .

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:11 AM

This was the sign they wanted to put up in Texas:

’At this season of the Winter Solstice, let reason prevail.’

‘There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but a myth & superstition that hardens hearts & enslaves minds,’

If you don’t believe fine. They just have to insult those that do and show their elitest bent and contempt in the process.

Hard Right on December 25, 2011 at 12:11 AM

smellthecoffee on December 25, 2011 at 12:09 AM

Oops. I misconstrued your post. (hanging head in shame)

Doh.

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:17 AM

If you don’t believe fine. They just have to insult those that do and show their elitest bent and contempt in the process.

Hard Right on December 25, 2011 at 12:11 AM

I have no problem with them putting up such a sign — it’s the same one they put up in Santa Monica. I have a problem with them preventing others from making their Christmas/Hannukah statements.

As I’ve said previously, they got their licks in this year — now we’ll see what happens next year.

unclesmrgol on December 25, 2011 at 12:20 AM

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e68_1324573838
This guy says it best.
This protest isn’t about atheism or freedom it’s about attention whores.

CallousDisregard on December 25, 2011 at 12:21 AM

Hard Right on December 25, 2011 at 12:11 AM

Those are the kind of people scientific proof might make a difference with.
Some of the best scientific proof is right down there in Texas.

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:21 AM

Oops. I misconstrued your post. (hanging head in shame)

Doh.

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:17 AM

No offense meant; none taken ;-)

smellthecoffee on December 25, 2011 at 12:28 AM

You must have been still wrapping presents like me. :-)

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 11:41 PM

I never learn. Just got done.

Merry Christmas !!

CW on December 25, 2011 at 12:34 AM

I believe he’s worse–he is just as much a hypocrite as any Christian he would accuse, because someone who believes in Nothing cannot have impact on Anything.

He exaggerates the power of his own void.

rwenger43 on December 25, 2011 at 12:04 AM

That’s right.

I’ll go further, and say “believing nothing” doesn’t exist.

I really do believe that those professing to be atheists really do know there’s a God. But acknowledging Him is awkward, uncomfortable, and inconvenient.

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:35 AM

I never learn. Just got done.

Merry Christmas !!

CW on December 25, 2011 at 12:34 AM

I don’t think any of the rest of us learn, either.

Merry Christ Mass!

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:38 AM

Misotheists best describes them.

shick on December 25, 2011 at 12:51 AM

Believing in God is a no lose scenario. I try and live my life according to standards not determined by me and that continually develops character, I live in peace knowing that when I die Iw ill spend eternity in heaven with my savior, that will give you amazing perspective on life as we know it. Maybe I am wrong and the atheists and agnostics are correct and we just die and that is it. If I am wrong I will never know, if I am right I and they will both know. No downside, all upside. On the evidence front, God does have all the answers but sometimes that answer is no or wait. I see the joy in the people of God, that is all the “proof” I need

reaganrules on December 25, 2011 at 12:55 AM

Let us find something Christians and atheists have in common: not one of you is worthy. Merry Christmas!

VerbumSap on December 25, 2011 at 12:57 AM

Pat Condell is an atheist, but he just destroys groups like Santa Monica’s in this video. Well worth watching. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IolHgMf_nbw

nraendowment on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

I really do believe that those professing to be atheists really do know there’s a God. But acknowledging Him is awkward, uncomfortable, and inconvenient.

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 12:35 AM

This atheist really doesn’t know there is a god, but he suspects one might be there. But none of the gods who’ve been proposed so far are it, of that much he is sure.

listens2glenn, you don’t have to believe the crazy stories about your god. They’re just made up BS to put you on a guilt trip in regards to all the bad things you do.

Isn’t it enough to feel the guilt of doing a wrong action without having to have other people guilt you about it as well?

If there is a god out there, I’m betting he’s not the one we read about in the bible, or koran, or any other book purporting to speak for said god.

You are a Christian, likely because you were raised in it or have become steeped in it through inculcation or coercion.

And all because you believe in an original sin that your supposed great great great great great great great great …. grandfather and mother are guilty of… And HOW pray tell do you get around this unavoidable damnation? Who comes to the rescue? These human agents of god called Priests, Pastors, Ministers, Cardinals, Bishops, Popes, etc who tell you of a great gift called Jesus…

I urge you to look at those people who tell you that you are dirty, sinful, and dead until you believe as they do. What a terrible thing to be telling to children all the time and that they can only live by accepting an absolute authority.

Don’t think of that as a gift, think of it as a poisoned chalice. Push it aside however tempting it is and take the risk of thinking for yourself.

Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

No war on Christmas, huh? These guys could have taken out any space they wanted any time they wanted for any reason they wanted; could have taken out the same space for the entirety of the other 11 months of the year.

But no, they take THESE spots at THIS time for the specific purpose of locking out others who they know in advance will seek out these spaces, to “assert a right” that this guy says in the same breath that he doesn’t even believe he should have.

This guy can be atheist all he wants wherever he wants, I don’t really care. He could get a truck and drive around the nation with a giant LOL No God sign painted on it, taking his evangelical message of non-deist proselytizing to all the world, I don’t really care. I don’t agree with him but it’s infantile to try and stop him from saying it. The fact that he would deny me my “ignorance” (and probably say it’s for my own good) says a lot about his motives, and it costs him an ally among those who might otherwise be inclined to ask some of the more zealous believers to be a little nicer and more patient with the people around them.

The Schaef on December 25, 2011 at 1:13 AM

The atheist really do have a religion, Assholism. The are simply bigoted zealots of their particular faith, trying to snuff out anyone else’s religions free expression. They’re right there with illiterate, tribal Muslims on the religious tolerance scale.

claudius on December 25, 2011 at 1:21 AM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM
I urge you to look at those people who tell you that you are dirty, sinful, and dead until you believe as they do. What a terrible thing to be telling to children all the time and that they can only live by accepting an absolute authority.

Oh my, no, Kraut, you miss the point. I don’t tell AJ he has to “accept an absolute authority”. What I teach him is that as far as faith goes, there are only two truths: there is a God, and we are not Him.

When we discuss that in detail, I make sure he knows that God is good, and that when we do good we do God’s will. I teach him that the highest act of good is anonymous kindness, and through that I hope to instill in him an understanding that he is lucky to have what he has, and to promote a sense of giving. An anti-entitlement, if you will.

If I’ve done that, than I deserve my handle.

AJsDaddie on December 25, 2011 at 1:42 AM

The atheist really do have a religion, Assholism. The are simply bigoted zealots of their particular faith, trying to snuff out anyone else’s religions free expression. They’re right there with illiterate, tribal Muslims on the religious tolerance scale.

claudius

Not all atheists are a-holes, but those that are part of Freedom From Religion seem to be.
Some people need to be able to look down on others and to feel superior to in order to feel good about themselves.
Saying that there is no God is one thing, but to go out of their way to insult, is disgusting.

Hard Right on December 25, 2011 at 1:44 AM

Merry Christmas,..

and even after reading this,..

Don’t think of that as a gift, think of it as a poisoned chalice. Push it aside however tempting it is and take the risk of thinking for yourself.

Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

The extreme vanity, and elitist delusion that only YOU have the ability to think freely.

You aren’t, it’s the same old self deception that has seduced generations on the left, and the extreme libertarian right. You can’t find perfection in the acts of man under the guise of faith, therefore, you are “free thinking” when you reject all of it. That’s a very conceited view isn’t it?

I have discovered free thinking is an excuse for many excessive behaviors that the majority disapprove of, It’s often used by drug addicts for one,.. they aren’t constrained by our silly rules… I accuse you of nothing, just pointing out very often the veneer of “free thinking” is applied to a host of habits the rest find repulsive. It grants the user a pass on conventional morality when that morality impairs their enjoyment of whatever their personal quirk is.

You’re free to think you’re superior, that doesn’t make it true.

-

Merry Christmas anyway,.. may you find grace sometime in your life.

mark81150 on December 25, 2011 at 2:14 AM

isn’t a bit strange to celebrate Christmas at all if the birth date can never be really know?

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Not really. If you found a kid on your front porch that you then raised as your own, presumably you’d still find a way to celebrate the child’s birthday even though you’d have no idea what it is.

This is a celebration mostly based on the fact that Jesus was born, not specifically to celebrate another year since his birth.

Esthier on December 24, 2011 at 4:35 PM

I’m sympathetic to those who object to Christmas because it’s not really known to be the actual birthday of Jesus, or because the date appears to have been chosen to coincide with an old pagan holiday.

But overall, I think you’re exactly right. Does either of those things matter that much? Does anyone really think when Christmas rolls around, “I have to remember that I’m celebrating the birth of Christ, not the old pagan ritual?”

What’s important is the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Not the date of the celebration.

There Goes The Neighborhood on December 25, 2011 at 2:17 AM

Clearification, I don’t imply repulsive behavior, as in illegal or extreme.. in as much as to me.. the purist libertarian view is repulsive.

I know that gets me branded a nanny state type by a few, but oh well.. I’m a Reagan conservative, and he wasn’t a purist either, certainly not a libertarian.

mark81150 on December 25, 2011 at 2:23 AM

If there is a god out there, I’m betting he’s not the one we read about in the bible, or koran, or any other book purporting to speak for said god.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

Possibly. Possibly even probably. That doesn’t mean the folks described in the article weren’t acting arrogantly and provocatively to a purpose that could be described as dubiously productive, at best.

Don’t think of that as a gift, think of it as a poisoned chalice. Push it aside however tempting it is and take the risk of thinking for yourself.

Perfect example of the foregoing described arrogance and useless provocation.

Flotsam Jetsome on December 25, 2011 at 2:34 AM

Don’t think of that as a gift, think of it as a poisoned chalice. Push it aside however tempting it is and take the risk of thinking for yourself.

Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

Would you say the same thing to other cultures who do not share your idea of what happiness, truth and beauty is?

canditaylor68 on December 25, 2011 at 2:40 AM

pannw on December 24, 2011 at 8:49 PM

An interesting link. Some of the discussion about dating the death of Christ is off, though. For example, there seems to be no awareness of the fact that the Jewish day begins at sundown. Therefore, for example, if Jesus had to be buried before the sabbath, that would imply that He had to be buried before Friday evening, because when the sun went down on Friday evening, it was officially the sabbath.

Except it’s even more complicated than that. The assumption by many is that the reference to Jesus being buried before the sabbath referred to just the usual weekly sabbath on Saturday. But the Jews were celebrating Passover, and the first day of Passover is also a sabbath day, regardless of when it falls in the week. So there’s no reason to think He had to be buried specifically before Friday evening.

Most likely then, the burial occurred just before sundown on a Wednesday, and the first day of the Passover was Thursday. If so, then Jesus would have been in the grave Wednesday evening through Thursday morning and afternoon (sabbath because of Passover), Thursday evening through Friday morning and afternoon, and Friday evening through Saturday morning and afternoon. Then the resurrection occurred on Saturday evening, and the women and disciples went to the tomb on Sunday morning before daylight to find Christ already risen.

That seems to be the best reconstruction. Otherwise, it makes little sense to say that Jesus was in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights if He was actually buried on Friday before sundown but rose Sunday morning before sunrise. That would only be about a day and a half.

There Goes The Neighborhood on December 25, 2011 at 2:53 AM

One last note on dating Christmas:

At no point in the Bible is a date given for the birth of Christ. And yet, the Bible says a lot about the fact that Christ was born. From this, I think I can derive that the exact date is not that important, but that the fact that we were given a Messiah is all-important.

It’s important that Jesus was born of a virgin, since we were told that would be a sign.
It’s important that His birth was a gift.
It’s important that the government would one day be on His shoulder.
It’s important that He would be called, Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace
It’s important that He would save His people from their sins.

The actual date of the birth, not so important.

There Goes The Neighborhood on December 25, 2011 at 3:01 AM

The actual date of the birth, not so important.

There Goes The Neighborhood on December 25, 2011 at 3:01 AM

Dittos. : )

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 3:12 AM

Way to go, atheists! Now take your fight to Islam!
UndeadBeav on December 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM

Exactly!

Sherman1864 on December 25, 2011 at 3:43 AM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

Thanks for your sincerity, SK537.
Sorry I didn’t catch this earlier when you posted it.

WOW, most of what you said in that post really describes some of the believers on my mother’s side.
Too many of my mother’s generation and up (on her side, that is),
used (and still use) guilt to motivate people. Maybe a better word for motivate would be manipulate.

I never believed that God was like that, and I also thought it wrong for christians to act like that, and it has caused me a lot of conflict between older family members and myself, over the years.

I urge you to look at those people who tell you that you are dirty, sinful, and dead until you believe as they do. What a terrible thing to be telling to children all the time and that they can only live by accepting an absolute authority.
SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

I have run into very few persons holding leadership positions in a local church who actively believed like that, but I have run into MANY “bench pew warmers” whose beliefs evidently paralleled your description, that I copy/pasted above. Those types usually “wear it on their sleeve”, and are quick to critcize anybody (including other believers) for having ‘too much fun’.

If most of the so-called christians you’ve been exposed to during your walk-of-life (up till now) have acted this way, then you do have my sympathies.

One of the ‘doctrines’ that I disagree with many of my fellow christians on, is the concept of “original sin.”
I believe Adam was originally formed or made in God’s image; after God’s likeness. As such, Adam was already like God. But that’s not the same thing as being God.
So why did Adam eat the forbidden fruit, when they (Adam & Eve) already had what the snake (Satan) said they would get from eating it? The Bible says Eve was deceived (seduced?) but Adam was not.
In short; I don’t know why Adam ate it. But doing so alienated him from God.
I believe that Adam’s sin caused all his subsequent posterity
to be conceived alienated from, and out of union/harmony with God.

Don’t think of that as a gift, think of it as a poisoned chalice. Push it aside however tempting it is and take the risk of thinking for yourself.

Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

I already was without happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom.
If I can’t convince you that I’m really much better off than I was before, then I’m left with shrugging my shoulders, praying that God shows himself real to you, and wishing you a Merry Christ Mass.

Anyway, don’t let bossy-poop, frowning-scowling christians drive you away from God. : )

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 4:33 AM

Way to go, atheists! Now take your fight to Islam!
UndeadBeav on December 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM

Exactly!

Sherman1864 on December 25, 2011 at 3:43 AM

NO, DON’T LISTEN TO THEM . . . . . .

YOU’LL END UP BEHEADED!

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 4:36 AM

I get folks who don’t believe, but the open hostility towards and belittlement of those who do is quite beyond my capacity.

Its quite sad that these obviously miserable people have to go out of their way to try and dampen everyone’s spirit. My experience has always been those who attempt to force their faith (and yes atheism is a faith) on others are the most pitiable people they are nearly universally unhappy, no matter what belief system they hold to.

DR1579 on December 25, 2011 at 4:48 AM

There are nice tolerant atheists and there are intolerant atheist jerks. These atheists are the jerk type.

MCGIRV on December 24, 2011 at 2:11 PM

I think it’s a little worse than that. I’m starting to think that calling them jerks is kind of like saying Stalin was a jerk.

Night Owl on December 25, 2011 at 6:16 AM

Merry Christmas!

Watch it to the end… it keeps getting better and better…

It’s like you could feel the Holy Spirit working on each and every person’s heart, both there in the mall, and those watching on YouTube. And when the singers literally fell to their knees, several spectators did too, out of reverence to the birth of our Savior. I wish I had been there in person, but even though I live thousands of miles away, modern tecnology can share this with the world…

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark 16:15

ITguy on December 25, 2011 at 8:01 AM

Empty lots, empty lives. Mr. Vix is showing the world what it’s like to be an atheist.

Kissmygrits on December 25, 2011 at 9:07 AM

ITguy on December 25, 2011 at 8:01 AM

Eat your heart out, Bill Engvall . . . . . .

. . . . . THAT be AWESOME! ! ! !

: )

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 10:35 AM

I am a Christian Universalist/Unitarian.
I just don’t feel that everyone should have to support or believe as I do.

BedBug on December 24, 2011 at 12:47 PM

Something tells me this is more fitting.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 25, 2011 at 11:35 AM

Way to go, atheists! Now take your fight to Islam!
UndeadBeav on December 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM

Ever heard of Everybody draw Mohammed day? Have you read any of the books by Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris? Silly me. Of course you haven’t.

Dan_Yul on December 25, 2011 at 12:52 PM

Putting up nothing makes sense for an atheist. Being an atheist merely means not believing in the supernatural (whether of the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or any other variety) and says nothing whatsoever about what any atheist actually does believe. So a blank display next to a religious display makes the point: it shows nature without any attempted diversion into any of the myths of the supernatural.

But still, being anti-Christian, is not a reasonable atheistic stand. It is a religious viewpoint to hate or denigrate or oppose other particular religions — and atheists are irrational if they buy into that kind of activism.

And Christmas, like life, is too important for Muslims, atheists, Christians, etc., to try to mess it up.

Atheists don’t have any rights, as such. Neither do Christians, Jews, etc. People have rights by virtue of being human, not by virtue of their views on the supernatural, ghosts, etc. And in America we are supposed to have government that respects our rights (and doesn’t establish any religion, or otherwise violate our freedom in regard to religion).

Steve Stoddard on December 25, 2011 at 1:07 PM

Ever heard of Everybody draw Mohammed day? Have you read any of the books by Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris? Silly me. Of course you haven’t.

Dan_Yul on December 25, 2011 at 12:52 PM

It’s funny isn’t it Dan? It’s like they think people like us only speak out against Christianity or something. Like they don’t realize that other people from other religions speak out against their birth religions as well (or the religion they chose to foolow).

What’s funny is that Dan Dennett has been working with former and current pastors who are atheists now, but who feel trapped into continuing their ministries because of friendships they would lose or because they don’t have any other skills, etc…

Talk about turning your world upside down…

When they do actually deconvert or come out of the closet, they are often marginalized and cut off by their social groups until they repent and come back into the fold.

Of course, denials are in order by most here who say they’d never do so, or will say that they actually have atheist friends themselves but that people like you or I who post comments here and other places are just bitter, hateful, spiteful atheists…

You know, the usual…

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:13 PM

But still, being anti-Christian, is not a reasonable atheistic stand. It is a religious viewpoint to hate or denigrate or oppose other particular religions — and atheists are irrational if they buy into that kind of activism.

Steve Stoddard on December 25, 2011 at 1:07 PM

Ah, but what if you are a religious atheist — one who feels his or her message must, of necessity, transcend the messages of other religions?

unclesmrgol on December 25, 2011 at 1:33 PM

Does anyone else see the irony of atheists celebrating Christmas by putting up nothing?

RebeccaH on December 25, 2011 at 1:38 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Now we understand fully the meaning of his name.

unclesmrgol on December 25, 2011 at 1:39 PM

Steve Stoddard on December 25, 2011 at 1:07 PM

Just one qualm with what you said Steve… Religious sorts are allowed to proselytize aren’t they? That’s the way they get their message out right? If they don’t put forward their ideas then they don’t stand much chance of increasing in number and that’s the point of it all right? Getting everyone on the same page so to speak??? But more importantly, if we don’t discuss these issues then nothing gets resolved right? If Christians are allowed to stay in their cocoon of thought and never exposed to alternate, maybe better ways of thinking/being, they’ll never progress in life. It is when your most deeply held beliefs are challenged that you can truly grow and understand.

My qualm is that religion at its core is just an ideology. Like communism is an ideology, like capitalism is an ideology. Religion takes it place on a spectrum of ideologies that people are free to support or speak out against. But as we all know from history, some ideologies are bad ones, and when someone feels strongly enough about the detrimental side effects of an ideology, it doesn’t make them religious if they speak out against it.

As you said, atheism is just a lack of belief in the supernatural and says nothing whatsoever about what OTHER ideology they might subscribe to. Most atheists believe that belief in theistic deities happens to put humans into conflict quite a bit, and isn’t that something worth speaking out against?

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:43 PM

Now we understand fully the meaning of his name.

unclesmrgol on December 25, 2011 at 1:39 PM

you understand little if you think that, whatever that is. ;-)

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:50 PM

While you guys were crying about your nativity scenes, churches in Algeria were bombed by islamists and dozens of Christians killed during Christmas services. That’s war on Christmas. They said their God can beat up your God and that’s how it all got started.

Dan_Yul on December 25, 2011 at 1:52 PM

Whoops, Nigeria not Algeria.

Dan_Yul on December 25, 2011 at 2:27 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Such “ministers” never knew the Lord to start with. They went to some seminary and “got” an ordination(an artificial piece of paper).

I know one such minister very well. Too well.

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 3:49 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:50 PM

It’s the most powerful name that exists.

And His name is NOT “God” or “Christ”, it’s JESUS.

Try saying “Jesus Is Lord”, right there where you are.

How did it come out?

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 3:55 PM

Whatevs.

bmmg39 on December 25, 2011 at 5:07 PM

Poor Sauerkraut. Can’t let go of his bitterness, even on Christmas Day.

kingsjester on December 25, 2011 at 5:14 PM

. They’re just made up BS to put you on a guilt trip in regards to all the bad things you do.

Isn’t it enough to feel the guilt of doing a wrong action without having to have other people guilt you about it as well?

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:04 AM

Krauted One,

I believe a lot of your ill will is the result of getting the wrong message from the wrong church. Unfortunately, you are blaming God for the actions of those who claim to work in his name.

I spent the majority of my youth and adult life feeling similarly, but without the doubt. I’ve never doubted the Lord, I’ve just disliked churches. As an adult, I came back to the Lord with an open mind and an open heart and was overjoyed by the love He has for me. He loves you too. The people that put the message out there that you are bad an unworthy of God’s love, they are the poisoned pills. God IS love. Look up Agape Love – that is our Lord and Savior. It doesn’t matter who you were, what you have done – He still loves you and wants you to know His love.

If you truly think there may be a Lord, but have just been turned off by the reception you have gotten from churches, I encourage you to keep looking. There are churches out there, like mine, who’s sole purpose is to open our arms and our doors to those who feel that they’ve been cast off – who have been denied God’s love from the spiritual “gatekeepers” who want to tell you you have to meet a certain standard to be worthy of His love.

If you truly do not believe, and do not want that love. That is your decision. I pray that someday you will seek Him and the love He wants to give you.

I will not trash you personally for your choices and beliefs. I ask you to afford me the same respect for my choice as well. Fair?

Lastly, your name reminds me of my German grandmother. It’s a happy memory, especially around the holidays. Thanks for that :)

God Bless,

WhaleBellied on December 25, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Such “ministers” never knew the Lord to start with. They went to some seminary and “got” an ordination(an artificial piece of paper).

I know one such minister very well. Too well.

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 3:49 PM

This is a common retort to the disbelief one such as yourself has when they hear of someone losing their faith or no longer believing in the fairy tale you happen to believe in.

Twist your mind to do anything and everything you can to discount stories such as these… Dude, wake up.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:33 PM

How did it come out?

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 3:55 PM

It came out with a note of exasperation on my part… Exasperation at the density of your faith. One such as you, one who has swallowed whole the bait they put in front of your face on a weekly basis.

It was a, “Jesus! When is this guy going to get it?”

You don’t have to believe the stories you’ve been told about him. You don’t even know for sure he was a true person listens2glenn. ALL you have is the history that’s been told to us through the ages, and while that may indicate to you that he was a real person, it really isn’t an indication.

The ONLY thing it is an indication of is that many less educated people than yourself way back in history believed the tales and made it their reality. That’s all it is.

Just try a little experiment and stop going to church for a while.

Admittedly, its hard to let it go when you keep going to church each and every Sunday, plus whatever other church excursions you choose to go on, etc…

Again, wake up dude.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:39 PM

Poor Sauerkraut. Can’t let go of his bitterness, even on Christmas Day.

kingsjester on December 25, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Poor Kingsjester, believing in myths and fairy tales because he’s scared of what comes after.

;-)

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:40 PM

WhaleBellied on December 25, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Please…

My uncle was a Lutheran minister his entire life, he’s still alive and well, but retired. He went to several years of seminary and learned from schools in Europe as well as here in the United States. I went to his church in south central Texas for years until my father moved us up into north Texas.

We continued to go to church in the Lutheran church for years until my parents decided they didn’t like the pastor of our church and so my family, plus a few other families, moved over to the Presbyterian church that was closer to our home.

I was a Christian for most of my life (40 of 43 years) until I woke up one day and called it all BS. Because it IS BS.

It’s made up tales by bronze aged Bedouins and shepherds, to try and allay the fears of those around them who’s fear was born out of said Bedouins and shepherds creating the tale of original sin in the first place. Because once you accept the story about original sin damning all mankind to a separation from god, you then need a savior to get you back there don’t cha know?

And these human agents of god have JUST the guy. A guy named Jesus.

It’s BS.

I’m sorry if you don’t like the tone of that, but I’m not gonna mince words with you.

You can HAVE your faith all you like, I’m not gonna stop you, but I will call you out on the BS that you spout that was borne out of thousands of years of apologetic explanations for all the contradictions and illogical conclusions that religions foist on us…

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:52 PM

You can HAVE your faith all you like, I’m not gonna stop you, but I will call you out on the BS that you spout that was borne out of thousands of years of apologetic explanations for all the contradictions and illogical conclusions that religions foist on us…

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:52 PM

At least your not bitter…

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 25, 2011 at 8:07 PM

Steve Stoddard on December 25, 2011 at 1:07 PM

You might want to reread our founding documents. No where does it say we are granted rights all equally by our government, but there is something in there about inalienable rights granted by our Creator.

Try a little humility this Christmas.

njrob on December 25, 2011 at 8:17 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:52 PM

We get it, you have your faith and you won’t be swayed by anyone else’s beliefs. Call it a day and enjoy this Christmas with your family and loved ones.

Hopefully you’ll realize that the Lord is waiting for you to accept Him into your heart before your days end. If not, I will pray for our God to be merciful.

njrob on December 25, 2011 at 8:19 PM

I just wonder how SauerKraut would take it if we all started proselytizing him here and telling him to wake up and accept Jesus because we think he’s ignorant not to.

The Schaef on December 25, 2011 at 8:27 PM

You can HAVE your faith all you like, I’m not gonna stop you, but I will call you out on the BS that you spout that was borne out of thousands of years of apologetic explanations for all the contradictions and illogical conclusions that religions foist on us…

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:52 PM

soo…what I believe based on faith alone is BS. What you believe based on faith (or lack of) alone is truth and must be respected as law?

Ok cool. I’ve said my piece. Now flog me with your superior intellect and cooler-than-it-all bitterness.

I’ll just turn the other cheek and keep praying for you.

I’m sorry you are so embittered by something that your nonbelief is not enough. If lashing out at others beliefs makes you feel better, have at it.

again, God bless.

WhaleBellied on December 25, 2011 at 8:35 PM

Because once you accept the story about original sin damning all mankind to a separation from god, you then need a savior to get you back there don’t cha know?

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:52 PM

I WILL say this however. You obviously are so blinded by your anger, your higher intellect, whatever – that you totally did not read or comprehend what I originally stated.

To clarify. There is nothing separating us from God but…us. He’s there waiting. Sin or no sin, he wants you to let Him love you. Simple as that. That you are separated from Him is your own choice to be separate from Him. He did not turn His back on you.

Ok, now tell me I’m stupid and full of BS and we’ll both move on.

WhaleBellied on December 25, 2011 at 8:41 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:39 PM

You can do better than that, SK537.

I didn’t ask you to say simply: “Jesus!”

It takes no effort to speak the “name of Jesus” in exasperation, frustration, anger, in other words; as an ‘expletive’.

I’m asking you (actually, this includes any of us here) to say these three words, and only these three words, in exactly the following sequence:

Jesus Is Lord

Can you do it?

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 10:25 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:52 PM

Could you please provide little more specificity, as to the ‘contradictions’ and ‘illogical conclusions’ you speak of?

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 10:32 PM

You know, a week or so ago, I saw an article where the Sec of State is negotiating with the ISC to make it a crime for an American to do or say anything about Islam that might make the Muslims perform an act of violence in retaliation. The Muslims get a free pass for any atrocity they might chose to engage in, all in the name of the sanctity of their religious beliefs.

However, the founding religion of this country, can be attacked, besmirched, vilified, and condemned with impunity. One of the founding ideas of our country is ‘One Nation Under God’. Now, you can believe in God or not, but allow EVERYONE the freedom and right to worship the God of their choice in their own way. If the religious beliefs of others offend you, get over it!

If you believe in my God or not (before you start, you don’t even know what my God is, so don’t waste your time), don’t try to infringe on my rights.

http://www.rongoulden.com/Literary.htm

xmanvietnam on December 25, 2011 at 10:41 PM

I was a Christian for most of my life (40 of 43 years) until I woke up one day and called it all BS. Because it IS BS.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:52 PM

On what qualifying criteria do you base the claim that you were a christian for 40 years? (that’s another question that could be to any of us here)

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 10:47 PM

Dear President of Mexico,

To make up for Obama mishaps since he took office, I am happily handing over to you the state of Mexifornia. VIVA MEJICO!!!

Signed,

A Concerned Wise Latina Woman

ProudPalinFan on December 25, 2011 at 11:37 PM

Sauerkraut = Allahpundit

Tim Tebow > Atheist

The perfect path to peace-body, mind and spirit-is to embrace Jesus. Takes a lot to pray to God, but hey people can hate on me all they want; after all, I am a Catholic.

Yeah, like that Santorum guy.

ProudPalinFan on December 25, 2011 at 11:41 PM

As I’ve said previously, they got their licks in this year — now we’ll see what happens next year.

unclesmrgol on December 25, 2011 at 12:20 AM

You got it right. Never argue with an idiot.

I’m reminded of the dog in the manger. He has no use for the hay, couldn’t eat much less digest it. But growls and threatens to keep the cow away.

Caststeel on December 26, 2011 at 12:45 AM

Well I’m about as agnostic as anyone, but I’m willing to be convinced if someone can do that.

However, I just made my first visit to the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and museum, and spent all day Christmas Eve in there. To state merely that I had a “profound experience” there would hardly suffice.

When you read the inspired words written in his own hand and get a sense of how special a man Reagan was, and when you see how grounded in faith his entire life was and how it was woven into everything he did, it becomes much harder to deny the existence of what most refer to as “God”.

Just sayin – After reading his handwritten words, expressing concepts and ideas that far transcend a mere secular, material level of human understanding, I can’t logically conclude anything but that Ronald Reagan was truly one who was divinely inspired. I don’t know how much more proof I will require, but my visit to Ronald Reagan’s magnificent final resting place tore a few more bricks out of my wall.

Harbingeing on December 26, 2011 at 2:04 AM

As I’ve said before, an atheist is not someone who doesn’t believe in God, but someone who hates it that you do.

leereyno on December 26, 2011 at 4:37 AM

I find the objections to nativity displays use an ounce of truth as a ten pound hammer. One can fight over the constitutional arguments of separation of church and state until the cows come home, but nativity displays put up by churches along a few block of a park, for a few weeks every year, have never fooled anyone into believing the government is supporting one religion over all others.

Yet, Christians face teaching in schools paid for with their taxes, government sponsored family planning, and new definitions of diversity and protected groups that goes against their faith, and at the same time, some communities are now restricting public facilities from religious services and meetings.

The uproar over a few nativity displays each year in contrast to serious issues of morality and public exercise of one’s faith seem overblown. The question shouldn’t how can one use the system to keep people of faith out of the public, but how does the government allow appropriate access to all at appropriate times.

This article is just an example of one group being mean and spiteful, during a special religious holiday. Sadly, there are many other weeks available for the atheists to use the park–but they know that no one will drive by to read their messages.

STL_Vet on December 26, 2011 at 9:57 AM

I have a proposal which I believe may be acceptable to the hypersensitive theophobes consumed by the obsessive need to pee in the punch bowl. My plan should also receive multiple endorsements from those of faith.

As I would never ask someone to forsake their own beliefs, regardless of how irrational they may be or how distasteful their methods of publicly spewing them happen to be. It is not my intention to belittle those who hold fast to atheism, not even the more militant variety. Instead of taking an opposing view I will suggest a course of action that will enable them to more strongly hold to their convictions.

Like me I suspect that quite a few people carry on their person a type of card stating what their religion is and a name and contact number of their clergyman in case of emergencies. More often some sort of medical information identifying those with diabetes or various other conditions can be found, and of course things like blood type appear right on our drivers licenses and also authorize whether or not we are willing to donate our organs in case of any fatality. So here is what I would suggest to help comfort those fellow citizens who are so offended and/or traumatized by the sight of religious symbols, and who must wrestle with the pain of being so misunderstood and marginalized during our faith-based holidays; that they carry some such identification that they are atheists and that religion is greatly offensive to them. Furthermore this official ID card should state that no prayers are to be said for them, that no clergy or church participate in any way, shape, or form in disposal of the remains, that should he, in panic/terror/pain ask for any religious help it is to be denied, and most importantly, explicitly instruct that in event of an emergency the subject is NOT, even in critcal cases of impending death, to be taken to any hospital or health care facility named St. Joseph, St. Vincent, St. John, St. Elizabeth, St. Luke, St. Anthony St. ANYTHING, Mt. Sinai, Hebrew, Congregational, Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Sisters of Mercy, Sisters of Charity, Sacred Heart, Holy Sacrament, Beth Israel, Good Samaritan, Imaaculate, and any thing with “Our Lady” in the title.

So what do you think guys? You listening SauerKraut? I’m only trying to help you stick to your principles more strongly. So if you are not willing to put it all out there for your beliefs, shut the hell up with your sarcastic and insecure condescension and let people of faith enjoy their traditions. No one is forcing you to celebrate anything.

OlympicLeprechaun on December 26, 2011 at 11:19 AM

Harbingeing on December 26, 2011 at 2:04 AM

Shhhhhhhhhhhh . . . . not so loud

If the others hear you, you’ll be persecuted.

But glad to hear you had a wonderful experience at Reagan Library. : )

listens2glenn on December 26, 2011 at 11:42 AM

I just do not understand, atheist say there is no God and that Christians are stupid or foolish for believing there is one. If were are so “foolish” then why do they care if we celebrate Christmas. Are they that insecure!

sigsauer on December 26, 2011 at 12:00 PM

The uproar over a few nativity displays each year in contrast to serious issues of morality and public exercise of one’s faith seem overblown. The question shouldn’t how can one use the system to keep people of faith out of the public, but how does the government allow appropriate access to all at appropriate times.

I agree. You Christians are really making much ado about nothing. There was a lottery and the atheists won most of the spots. You’ve still got thousands of churches all over the country where you can display and profess your mythology unhindered.

Dan_Yul on December 26, 2011 at 12:04 PM

On what qualifying criteria do you base the claim that you were a christian for 40 years? (that’s another question that could be to any of us here)

listens2glenn on December 25, 2011 at 10:47 PM

You know listens2glenn, it doesn’t matter what I say about my beliefs and my past as a Christian. No matter what I say you will try to pick it apart and say that I somehow wasn’t a Christian. That I have some aspect of the belief system wrong and that I wasn’t a true Christian.

You’ve been guilty many times before of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. Saying that I misread something, or misunderstood some aspect of the faith and that my misreading disqualifies me and my claim.

An example of the No True Scotsman fallacy goes like this…

Alice: All Scotsmen enjoy haggis.
Bob: My uncle is a Scotsman, and he doesn’t like haggis!
Alice: Well, all true Scotsmen like haggis.

What you fail to realize is that today in Christianity we have schisms upon schisms. That certain sects of Christianity emphasize certain things and others others.

The point is that every sect of Christianity thinks that their rendition of the basic theology is the one true rendition. That people who think other things about it are “mislead”, or led down the wrong path, etc.

Whatever dude.

As I said before, you erect whatever objections I bring up against Christianity that you can, and all so you can continue believing in the fairy tale you want to believe in.

SauerKraut537 on December 26, 2011 at 12:14 PM

When they do actually deconvert or come out of the closet, they are often marginalized and cut off by their social groups until they repent and come back into the fold.

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Poor Sauerkraut. Can’t let go of his bitterness, even on Christmas Day.

kingsjester on December 25, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Poor Kingsjester, believing in myths and fairy tales because he’s scared of what comes after.

;-)

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 7:40 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Now we understand fully the meaning of his name.

unclesmrgol on December 25, 2011 at 1:39 PM

you understand little if you think that, whatever that is. ;-)

SauerKraut537 on December 25, 2011 at 1:50 PM

Heh.

Do you suppose that I am here to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on, a household of five will be divided: three against two and two against three; father opposed to son, son to father, mother to daughter, daughter to mother, mother-in-law to daughter-in-law, daughter-in-law to mother-in-law.

Heart-held beliefs bring division. You have your beliefs, and they have theirs.

unclesmrgol on December 26, 2011 at 1:57 PM

What you fail to realize is that today in Christianity we have schisms upon schisms. That certain sects of Christianity emphasize certain things and others others.

The point is that every sect of Christianity thinks that their rendition of the basic theology is the one true rendition. That people who think other things about it are “mislead”, or led down the wrong path, etc.

SauerKraut537 on December 26, 2011 at 12:14 PM

Actually, I’m pretty sure that I agree with you over the multiple, numerous “schisms upon schisms” in christianity. There are a number of organized, identifiable-by-name denominations beginning with the Roman Catholic Church, (Eastern Orthodoxy?),and then branching out into more Protestant groups than I care to name.
Then there are sub-groups within each of those denominations, and then sub-sub-groups within the sub-groups, etc, etc, etc. Then there is a growing number of non-denominational independent churches, here and there. That’s one point that I’m pretty sure you and I are in-synch on.

But there is one point-of-truth that all persons claiming to be christian believers should be able to come together on.

And it’s those three words: Jesus Is Lord, spoken as a three-word sentence/statement in exactly that sequence.
Recognizing that, and prayerfully accepting Jesus as Lord is all that’s necessary for your own individual “eternal security.”

If anyone claims to be a christian believer, but can’t agree with the simple premise in that three-word statement, I want to know why.

If anyone disagrees with me over anything else besides that, fine.

But as to christians disagreeing with each other over THOUSANDS of different doctrinal or theological issues; I can’t see that going away before the second coming. I didn’t get that from the Bible, that’s just my opinion, based on experience.

listens2glenn on December 26, 2011 at 2:08 PM

I don’t like dredging up that whole “war on Christmas” thing, but (with apologies in advance to Allahpundit) this story kind of gets under my skin.

I feel bad for Allahpundit. Everyone apologizes to him in advance. He’s like a ‘protected class’ whenever anyone talks about religion. Doesn’t he know you guys don’t hate him? Haven’t you worked with him long enough for him to feel that its not a pointed attack at him when you talk about these issues?

Just say your piece. Let Allahpundit say his. We all know his work speaks for itself.

Pretty soon the writers of this blog will have to preface everything with a “with apologies in advance to fill in your protected class here: women, pets, trees, coal miners, those who dislike vanilla ice cream”

COME ON! Stop it.
IMO.

athenadelphi on December 26, 2011 at 4:41 PM

In response, a leader of the atheist group says he’s just looking for evenhanded treatment to present his beliefs in a public space…

These people aren’t atheists, they’re antitheists.

Big John on December 26, 2011 at 6:18 PM

listens2glenn on December 26, 2011 at 2:08 PM

Saying Jesus is lord doesn’t make it so listens2glenn…

No matter how many times you repeat the mantra, the dogma, the eschatology, the divinity claims, it doesn’t make it so.

You are also guilty of Argumentum ad Populum (another logical fallacy) in the sense that you are taking all these disparate sub beliefs of Christianity and “unifying” them under the banner Jesus is Lord. This is nothing more than sophistry.

Just because the rest of humanity can see a god as a possibility, doesn’t mean you have to prostrate yourself before the imaginations of other men.

You assume you NEED eternal security bro! ASSUME, that’s all faith is to you. You think that if you can just assume it into existence that it then becomes real?

You assume you NEED eternal security, but from whom pray tell?

The very same god you kneel before, but is that really god, or just OTHER MEN’S IDEAS about him?

SauerKraut537 on December 26, 2011 at 7:17 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 26, 2011 at 7:17 PM

I forgive you of your bigotry towards Christians and your obvious hatred towards our Lord Jesus Christ. I know you are coming from a sad place in your life as you have turned your back towards our Lord and Savior. I will pray for you and hope that someday you will come back into His fold. You are our prodigal son. We are waiting for you.

njrob on December 26, 2011 at 10:27 PM

njrob on December 26, 2011 at 10:27 PM

Well you got me pegged wrong on my feelings for Jesus. I DON’T hate the man, if he even existed (could just be another myth like the thousands of others that arose in various civilizations around the world in ancient times.)

Nevertheless, I applaud a lot of the actions of Jesus, and believe he had a lot right in regards to how we should treat one another. But being the deliverer of good ethics and teachings doesn’t automatically confer some credibility to his divinity claims (or those of his followers).

I’m NOT in a sad place my friend, but I do find it sad that so many fall for the obviously fallacious representations of the god we all imagine.

I’m being facetious of course, but I imagine god had a few terse words for the writers of the bible when they died and went to heaven… For portraying him as they did and presuming to speak for him; ie the jealous, petty, malevolent, capricious god of the old testament, and the slightly less bloodthirsty one of the new… Or the Korans representation of him when that books auspicious writers died and acted as if THEY could speak for god as well.

Wouldn’t it be just hilarious if we truly had souls where if we died and went to whatever heaven you want to choose, and god meets you for the very first time (really), and he turns out scolding you for believing all that crap in the bible/koran/insert religious text here?

;-)

SauerKraut537 on December 27, 2011 at 1:55 AM

California atheists!

If there are any Christians or conservatives left in California, they best GTFO while the getting is good!

Anybody staying is on their own!

insidiator on December 27, 2011 at 8:45 AM

As an agnostic, I can see both sides of the issue. I can understand why someone would believe or not believe.
When I see rabid religious people or rabid atheists, they seem to have one thing in common- mental illness. SauerKraut537 coming here to spew hatred and bigotry is a prime example of a rabid atheist. Intolerant, narcissistic, hate filled, and a need to control describes those like him to a “T”.
You don’t want to believe? Fine. You do not have the right to take away what they believe or force them to believe like you. Pearls before swine, I know.

Hard Right on December 27, 2011 at 10:48 AM

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