California atheists block out nativity scenes

posted at 10:30 am on December 24, 2011 by Jazz Shaw

I don’t like dredging up that whole “war on Christmas” thing, but (with apologies in advance to Allahpundit) this story kind of gets under my skin. In Santa Monica, California, there is apparently one particular stretch of road alongside a park which has traditionally been set aside for Christmas displays. The nativity scenes on display have been popular with residents and tourists. But in order to be fair to everyone, the city used a lottery to allocate space to groups wishing to put up Creche displays and related scenes. Now, a group of atheists are accused of swamping the lottery and taking over the lots.

This year, however, atheists have taken over most of the two-block stretch, nearly shutting out and angering a group of churches who contend the atheists have organized against the Christians and gamed a city lottery process allocating the holiday exhibit space.

In response, a leader of the atheist group says he’s just looking for evenhanded treatment to present his beliefs in a public space — and goes so far as to say that the city shouldn’t even be allowing any religious or even atheist expression in the park.

That’s why he and his group have put nothing on half of the park exhibit spaces that they’ve secured from the city this year.

The atheists are declaring the politically left-leaning seaside town of Santa Monica as their latest battleground in a national movement to assert their rights.

“I’m part of a growing movement in America of atheists standing up for their rights. It’s a very exciting time for us that we’re having more of an impact in our society,” said Damon Vix, the organizer of the atheist group.

Yes, you’re having a big “impact” on the local society, alright. You’re getting everyone angry at you and ruining their holiday season to no apparent purpose. In the interview, Mr. Vix makes it clear that he has no interest in seeing other people’s views being represented – he just doesn’t want the Christians to use it.

In the interest of fairness, I could see if competing groups wanted to use some of the lots for an alternative display. If somebody wants to put up a big menorah on one of the lots, I don’t think anyone is going to get too worked up over it. And for these atheists, if they had something in mind as an alternative message… even a Festivus pole and a wrestling mat for some feats of strength, I’d probably have to give them some support. But to lock off the land to leave it empty rather than allow a nativity scene? That’s not some fight for equality or freedom. That’s just being a Grinch.

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Africanus on December 24, 2011 at 4:30 PM

I tip my hat to you. Very well said.

BruthaMan on December 24, 2011 at 4:40 PM

There were fewer nativity scenes than usual on public property, you say? *shrug*.

RightOFLeft on December 24, 2011 at 4:44 PM

Keep whining about the Supreme Court’s decision. Constitutional or not, they deemed it so and thus, it is legal.
This has taken away from the main argument, but, you guys are easily distracted.
BedBug on December 24, 2011 at 4:14 PM
I don’t think it’s whining, but don’t let that stop you from telling us to “knock off the whining.”

There are valid/legitimate/Constitutional ways of overturning Roe vs Wade. But based on your posts, you must believe Roe vs Wade to be “omnipotent.”

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 4:39 PM

So, overturn it. For now, it is legal.

BedBug on December 24, 2011 at 4:48 PM

lets us praise the rebirth of the sun! happy Natalis Invictus solis!

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM

You really believe that the sun somehow dies and is reborn?! Say it ain’t so.

Gelsomina on December 24, 2011 at 4:51 PM

lets us praise the rebirth of the sun! happy Natalis Invictus solis!

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM

You really believe that the sun somehow dies and is reborn?! Say it ain’t so.

Gelsomina on December 24, 2011 at 4:51 PM

Beam Me Up, Scotty! The end of this clip tells all…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWnP1o8ExTY

Del Dolemonte on December 24, 2011 at 4:56 PM

I am so sick to death of atheist!!!!!!!!!!!! Turn your freaking head if you don’t want to see a nativity!

Bullhead on December 24, 2011 at 4:58 PM

29Victor on December 24, 2011 at 2:19 PM

Wait, they don’t believe in God, but they believe in the atom?
Why? Atoms are so small you can’t see them? How do they know they are real? Just because some scientist told them about it?

Theres a reason communists hate religions.

orbitalair on December 24, 2011 at 5:00 PM

And for these atheists, if they had something in mind as an alternative message… even a Festivus pole and a wrestling mat for some feats of strength, I’d probably have to give them some support.

Even George thought God was cool. He thought Christian Rock was cool and said there wasn’t enough talk about God. Heck, he even tried to join “the fate” (Latvian Orthodox) to win over a girl! And he liked their hats! I’d look up the quotes, but I’m too lazy.

Mr_Magoo on December 24, 2011 at 5:01 PM

There were fewer nativity scenes than usual on public property, you say? *shrug*.

RightOFLeft on December 24, 2011 at 4:44 PM

Apparently, if there’s one square foot of public space not covered by a nativity scene or other Christian-themed holiday decoration, there’s a secular war on Christmas, they’re trying to take God out of the public square, etc. etc.

I’m getting pretty sick of this Christian persecution complex that crops up every single Christmas and Easter. It’s not enough for some people to be able to freely practice their beliefs; they need the government to promote them too. Apparently, the religion nominally professed by 80% of the population really, really needs that extra visibility or it’s going to disappear into the void.

theodore on December 24, 2011 at 5:03 PM

Let’s celebrate the true spirit of Christmas with a traditional two minutes hate on Atheists.

ronsfi on December 24, 2011 at 5:05 PM

Isn’t it strange to spend so much time on thread about something you profess no belief in? I think it’s very strange.

darwin on December 24, 2011 at 3:49 PM

i feel insecure in my atheist faith so i need reinforcement. /

Not strange to us, but it does seem to have a disturbing effect on you.

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 4:29 PM

as disturbing as seeing a monthy python movie.

Not really. If you found a kid on your front porch that you then raised as your own, presumably you’d still find a way to celebrate the child’s birthday even though you’d have no idea what it is.

This is a celebration mostly based on the fact that Jesus was born, not specifically to celebrate another year since his birth.

Esthier on December 24, 2011 at 4:35 PM

i would probably would celebrate it the date the child was found or something, not on the date of the neighbor child.

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 5:06 PM

You really believe that the sun somehow dies and is reborn?! Say it ain’t so.

Gelsomina on December 24, 2011 at 4:51 PM

i do believe that darkness was enveloping the north hemisfere until this date, but from now on, the days will grow larger.
so i believe in the sun rebirth in the metaphorical sense.
happy natalis solis invictus!

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 5:10 PM

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labour to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men & citizens.

- President George Washington

ITguy on December 24, 2011 at 5:20 PM

Sure, Charlie Brown. I can tell you what Christmas is all about.

When “A Charlie Brown Christmas” first aired in 1965, some CBS executives were horrified that Linus’ recitation of Luke 2:8-14 was going to appear in it – this apparent “blatant” message had never been included in an animated special.

Even producer Bill Melendez tried to talk Charles M. Schulz out of using Biblical references, especially Linus’ speech. Schulz reportedly won him over by saying, “If we don’t do it, who will?” As it turned out, Linus’ recitation was hailed as one of the most powerful moments in what became a highly acclaimed animation.

Later tonight, I’ll join my fellow choir members as we herald Christ’s birth at Midnight Mass. There’s an old aphorism that says to sing is to pray twice, and so as I sing the familiar, traditional hymns, my prayer will be for a blessed Christmas to all of you here.

PatriotGal2257 on December 24, 2011 at 5:20 PM

There are valid/legitimate/Constitutional ways of overturning Roe vs Wade. But based on your posts, you must believe Roe vs Wade to be “omnipotent.”

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 4:39 PM

Are you quoting anybody in particular or just the voices in your head? Come on. Have some dignity. Don’t use a word if you don’t know what it means. And certainly don’t highlight that fact with quotation marks.

Inconceivable!

You really believe that the sun somehow dies and is reborn?! Say it ain’t so.

Gelsomina on December 24, 2011 at 4:51 PM

Many people believe that the story of the Son dying on the is derivative of the tale of the sun “dying” on the Southern Cross. I don’t see how there is much room for mocking on either side of this debate.

Claiming to know GOD is just as personal and insane sounding as claiming there is no GOD. Hence the personal nature of it all.

Capitalist Hog on December 24, 2011 at 5:20 PM

so i believe in the sun rebirth in the metaphorical sense.
happy natalis solis invictus!

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 5:10 PM

So you know that the “rebirth of the sun” has nothing to do with the sun, but you still celebrate it.

Didn’t you just call that “extra ridiculous”?

Gelsomina on December 24, 2011 at 5:21 PM

There are valid/legitimate/Constitutional ways of overturning Roe vs Wade.

You have no idea what you’re talking about, do you?

Capitalist Hog on December 24, 2011 at 5:21 PM

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 5:10 PM

You truly are militant in your beliefs. I feel sorry for you that you haven’t accepted Christ into your life and I will pray that you open your heart to His words.

Not sure why you constantly feel the need to say the same things over and over again unless you enjoy screaming online just for the fun of it. What’s the point you’re trying to make that you haven’t said a dozen times already?

njrob on December 24, 2011 at 5:23 PM

Athiests belong to God.

Key West Reader on December 24, 2011 at 5:27 PM

happy natalis solis invictus!

The feast of the Unconquered Sun–the real reason for the [timing of the] season, I’m afraid. Even the Vix(en)ites should be able to get behind this! But they won’t–or, as in those cases where they set up a sign next to the Xmas displays, they’ll acknowledge the solstice & then denigrate everyone else’s beliefs. Needs satire.

Olo_Burrows on December 24, 2011 at 5:27 PM

Beam Me Up, Scotty! The end of this clip tells all…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWnP1o8ExTY

Del Dolemonte on December 24, 2011 at 4:56 PM

Ah, TOS! One of my favorite TV series. I was madly in love with Captain Kirk, until I learned more about William Shatner.

Gelsomina on December 24, 2011 at 5:37 PM

the only way we are going to get out of this childish stupidity is for the SCOTUS to undo the stupid mistake they made years ago, and truly define the meaning of church and state in the Constitution, the way our founding fathers meant it. In the meantime, I think I need freedom from atheists!!!!!

ultracon on December 24, 2011 at 5:41 PM

I agree with those of you above who said this news story is less about (extremist) atheists expressing positive sentiments about, or in support of, atheism and more about “sticking it to Christians.”

I also agree with those of you who mentioned extremist American atheists usually only seem to target Christians and Christianity, and rarely do they go after Islam, Hinduism, or other belief systems.

If American atheists had some kind of national holiday where they wanted to display (even on public property) some symbol that represents their group, I would not try to get it removed or prevent its display, nor would I place an anti-atheist type sign or monument next to it.

I would not get particularly worked up about it.

So it beats me why the extremists take these actions against people of faith.

TigerPaw on December 24, 2011 at 5:42 PM

isn’t a bit strange to celebrate Christmas at all if the birth date can never be really know?

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Isnt a bit strange to ask questions about something you havent thought very much about?
Technically the date of birth is a toss up. Ritually the birth was a gift to mankind. We honor that gift in rememberance and reciprocity on a communally chosen day-Christmas.

Are you familiar with Gluckman, Turner or van Gennep’s thoughts about observing the “rites of passage”, and how honoring these rituals help modern societies cope with the incredibly fast changes that are happening to them?

On a lighter note-lets take away the holiday and just make it another day. No added shopping(no extra taxes for those big govt types!), no extra pay at time and half, no family get togethers, no after work parties to build morale,no nothing. Yep that will benefit American society a whole lot…/

canditaylor68 on December 24, 2011 at 5:42 PM

PatriotGal2257 on December 24, 2011 at 5:20 PM

Excellent comment..Merry Christmas to you..:)

Dire Straits on December 24, 2011 at 5:44 PM

I don’t see how there is much room for mocking on either side of this debate.

Capitalist Hog on December 24, 2011 at 5:20 PM

That was my point.

Don’t mock us Christians for believing that Christ was born and then tell us that the sun is “reborn”.

Gelsomina on December 24, 2011 at 5:45 PM

The really sad part is, that even after all that community organizing effort and apparent success, our Santa Monica atheists are probably still really miserable – a misery much deeper and profound than the relatively minor irritation the Christians they have targeted suffer. I wonder if they see the irony in leaving half the spaces they won barren and devoid of purpose. Instead of putting something positive there, they have simply made manifest a display of their own spite.

MessesWithTexas on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

This discussion is getting too hot . I wanted to share a “real” Christmas story with all of you. Yesterday I had to anesthetize an indigent child for a minor procedure. The surgery concluded without complication and I dropped the kid off in recovery. While I was working on the next case, the recovery room nurses casually asked the father what he got the kid for Christmas. The father informed the nurses that he could not afford any gifts. The nurses and secretaries quickly collected money and purchased a small Christmas tree, toys, and food. Within an hour of discovering this family’s hardship this surgi-center created a small miracle for this struggling family. These are the best people I have ever known or worked with. I know all the little cliche stories of charity and giving around Christmas time can be so syrupy sweet as to be sickening, but to witness something like this first hand was powerful. These people freely gave of themselves. They did not ask the child’s religion if any prior to the giving. They did not require the family to covert to Christianity. They freely gave with no stings attached. I have seen just about the worst things that humans can to do other humans. This can be a world that is harsh and cruel. I can tell all of you from very personal experience that it truly does suck to be impoverished at Christmas. I am blessed to have observed such a wonderful event performed by warm hearted loving people. It made me again see that there is good in this world. And then I went shopping at Costco right after work and was almost trampled, run over, and beaten and I was again reminded why my belief in human kindness and charity had diminished a bit in the first place. Again, merry Christmas to all.

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

You truly are militant in your beliefs. I feel sorry for you that you haven’t accepted Christ into your life and I will pray that you open your heart to His words.

Not sure why you constantly feel the need to say the same things over and over again unless you enjoy screaming online just for the fun of it. What’s the point you’re trying to make that you haven’t said a dozen times already?

njrob on December 24, 2011 at 5:23 PM

i once started reading the gospel of thomas, in search of Christ true words. but then some one called that gospel heretic. now i am not sure the bible is the real word of jesus and god, or just the words that the 4th century church wanted to be jesus words.

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 5:58 PM

This discussion is getting too hot . I wanted to share a “real” Christmas story with all of you. Yesterday I had to anesthetize an indigent child for a minor procedure. The surgery concluded without complication and I dropped the kid off in recovery. While I was working on the next case, the recovery room nurses casually asked the father what he got the kid for Christmas. The father informed the nurses that he could not afford any gifts. The nurses and secretaries quickly collected money and purchased a small Christmas tree, toys, and food. Within an hour of discovering this family’s hardship this surgi-center created a small miracle for this struggling family. These are the best people I have ever known or worked with. I know all the little cliche stories of charity and giving around Christmas time can be so syrupy sweet as to be sickening, but to witness something like this first hand was powerful. These people freely gave of themselves. They did not ask the child’s religion if any prior to the giving. They did not require the family to covert to Christianity. They freely gave with no stings attached. I have seen just about the worst things that humans can to do other humans. This can be a world that is harsh and cruel. I can tell all of you from very personal experience that it truly does suck to be impoverished at Christmas. I am blessed to have observed such a wonderful event performed by warm hearted loving people. It made me again see that there is good in this world. And then I went shopping at Costco right after work and was almost trampled, run over, and beaten and I was again reminded why my belief in human kindness and charity had diminished a bit in the first place. Again, merry Christmas to all.

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Thank you for such a wonderful Christmas story. You and your coworkers truly made a difference to this family and showed what the spirit of Christmas is all about; peace and goodwill towards man.

Thank you again and have a very Merry Christmas.

njrob on December 24, 2011 at 6:01 PM

the only way we are going to get out of this childish stupidity is for the SCOTUS to undo the stupid mistake they made years ago, and truly define the meaning of church and state in the Constitution, the way our founding fathers meant it.
ultracon on December 24, 2011 at 5:41 PM

Thank you. Was thinking the same thing as I read this story.

Mr_Magoo on December 24, 2011 at 6:02 PM

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Beautiful! Your story was a gift suitable for wrapping and re-gifting year after year. Thanks to you for the work you do. Enjoy your Holidays and Cheers!

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on December 24, 2011 at 6:09 PM

Again, merry Christmas to all.

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Thanks for sharing your story. Merry Christmas.

darwin on December 24, 2011 at 6:14 PM

isn’t a bit strange to celebrate Christmas at all if the birth date can never be really know?

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Nearly ten years ago we rescued a puppy from the ‘pound.’ The workers there only knew his name, not when he was born. When we got him home my young (then) son wanted to know when we would celebrate the dog’s birthday. We explained to him that we didn’t know when he was born. My son then picked a day (long since forgotten), and for several years we ‘celebrated’ the dog’s birthday on the day chosen by my son.

The point, then, is that it ISN’T strange that a date was picked when we don’t know for sure. What WOULD be strange is to refrain from picking any date at all. One date is as good as another and we have for centuries celebrated the birth of the Christ child on December 25th.

Nothing strange about that at all.

Religious_Zealot on December 24, 2011 at 6:14 PM

I’m getting pretty sick of this Christian persecution complex that crops up every single Christmas and Easter. It’s not enough for some people to be able to freely practice their beliefs; they need the government to promote them too. Apparently, the religion nominally professed by 80% of the population really, really needs that extra visibility or it’s going to disappear into the void.

theodore on December 24, 2011 at 5:03 PM

David Seville just called. Alvin and Simon can’t finish the record until you get there.

Del Dolemonte on December 24, 2011 at 6:21 PM

That was my point.

Don’t mock us Christians for believing that Christ was born and then tell us that the sun is “reborn”.

Gelsomina on December 24, 2011 at 5:45 PM

i dont really mock you, although for some reason you are all peeved up. i am just pointing that:
1) this date was originally the data of birth of sol invictus, a roman pagan deity.
2) christians dont really know the date of jesus birth but found the date of birth of sol invictus interesting and took it over.
happy natalis solis invictus.

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Again, merry Christmas to all.

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

merry Christmas!

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 6:22 PM

The main problem is liberal-minded folks don’t understand what “fair” truly means. Fairness is allowing various Christian and Jewish groups to display such scenes during the CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH HOLIDAY SEASON.

The national holiday is Christmas. Christmas is, traditionally, a celebration of the birth of Christ.

Allowing atheist groups in to begin with is inherently UNFAIR. Liberals will, however, never understand how the real world works, thus you get this nonsense.

TheBlueSite on December 24, 2011 at 6:24 PM

theodore on December 24, 2011 at 5:03 PM

How is demanding government promote christianity by demanding that PUBLIC space (which should belong to all of us) be used to celebrate the holiday that the actual federal holiday is based on?

Allowing people to use the public square isn’t government promotion. It just so happens at one point in the past, government decided everything that wasn’t private was “theirs.”

We’re seriously going downhill as a nation when we can’t even see the public square decorated with the holiday celebrated by 99% of people from a religion practiced by 80+% of the country.

TheBlueSite on December 24, 2011 at 6:34 PM

The point, then, is that it ISN’T strange that a date was picked when we don’t know for sure. What WOULD be strange is to refrain from picking any date at all. One date is as good as another and we have for centuries celebrated the birth of the Christ child on December 25th.

Nothing strange about that at all.

Religious_Zealot on December 24, 2011 at 6:14 PM

maybe jesus or god wanted the date to be unknown on purpose so that the birth of Christ would be celebrated everyday!

but the real story was not just the picking of the day that happened to be the 25 of December. the true story is that this date was specifically picked to coincide with the sun deity birth.

In the 5th century, Pope Leo I (the Great) spoke of how the celebration of Christ’s birth coincided with the sun’s position increasing in the sky in several sermons on the Feast of the Nativity. Here is an excerpt from his 26th sermon:

But this Nativity which is to be adored in heaven and on earth is suggested to us by no day more than this when, with the early light still shedding its rays on nature, there is borne in upon our senses the brightness of this wondrous mystery.

so, on the 5th century the pope was justifying the celebration on this date because it was the winter solstice.

According to the 1967 New Catholic Encyclopedia, a standard library reference, in an article on Constantine the Great:

“Besides, the Sol Invictus had been adopted by the Christians in a Christian sense, as demonstrated in the Christ as Apollo-Helios in a mausoleum (c. 250) discovered beneath St. Peter’s in the Vatican.” Indeed “…from the beginning of the 3rd century “Sun of Justice” appears as a title of Christ”.[43]

The Syriac bishop Jacob Bar-Salibi wrote in the 12th century:

“It was a custom of the Pagans to celebrate on the same 25 December the birthday of the Sun, at which they kindled lights in token of festivity. In these solemnities and revelries the Christians also took part. Accordingly when the doctors of the Church perceived that the Christians had a leaning to this festival, they took counsel and resolved that the true Nativity should be solemnised on that day.” [44]

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 6:36 PM

Excellent comment..Merry Christmas to you..:)

Dire Straits on December 24, 2011 at 5:44 PM

Thank you for your kind words, Dire Straits. Getting to be a part of this forum has been an extra-special Christmas gift this year and I’m humbled to be a part of it now.

Merry Christmas to you and your family. :)

PatriotGal2257 on December 24, 2011 at 6:37 PM

Atheism is the vanity and hubris of man..

It also by the way fits the exact definition of a religious belief.. go figure..

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!

Viper1 on December 24, 2011 at 6:38 PM

Wonderful.
Atheist: I really wish Christians would stop claiming there’s a war on Christmas just because atheist groups are specifically targeting Christmas displays during the Christmas holiday. Talk about an unfounded persecution complex amirite-herpaderpa?

EternalMalachi on December 24, 2011 at 6:42 PM

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 6:36 PM

wtf dude?

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 6:43 PM

There were fewer nativity scenes than usual on public property, you say? *shrug*.

RightOFLeft on December 24, 2011 at 4:44 PM

RightOFLeft’s taxes went up, you say? *shrugs*

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM

wtf dude?

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 6:43 PM

what is it?

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 6:46 PM

Again, merry Christmas to all.

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

What an absolutely wonderful story. There’s nothing more to be said.

Merry Christmas to you.

PatriotGal2257 on December 24, 2011 at 6:47 PM

i once started reading the gospel of thomas, in search of Christ true words. but then some one called that gospel heretic. now i am not sure the bible is the real word of jesus and god, or just the words that the 4th century church wanted to be jesus words.

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 5:58 PM

The Gnostic Gospels were written a few hundred years after the life of Christ and His immediate followers, while the works in the Bible (New Testament) were written within 90 years of His death and resurrection – by people who knew Him, and some of whom saw Him after the resurrection.

This page addresses the topic of the Gnostic Gospels a little bit, and a few related issues:
Not InDavincible: A Review and Critique of The DaVinci Code

What About the Gospel of Thomas?

Are the Biblical Documents Reliable?

TigerPaw on December 24, 2011 at 6:50 PM

Apparently, if there’s one square foot of public space not covered by a nativity scene or other Christian-themed holiday decoration, there’s a secular war on Christmas, they’re trying to take God out of the public square, etc. etc.

Can you even debate the specifics of any one story. In your very short time commenting here on Hot Air, you already have quite the reputation as a troll. Is that what you were shooting for?

I’m getting pretty sick of this Christian persecution complex that crops up every single Christmas and Easter.

I’m getting pretty sick of the very active anti-religion crowd doing things that are in a very real sense religious persecution and then bitch because we bitch about it. I’m guessing you don’t believe in the freedom of religion or speech.

It’s not enough for some people to be able to freely practice their beliefs; they need the government to promote them too.

Is celebrating our religious beliefs in public a threat to you in any way, shape or form?

Apparently, the religion nominally professed by 80% of the population really, really needs that extra visibility or it’s going to disappear into the void.

theodore on December 24, 2011 at 5:03 PM

Apparently, some of your brethren take much glee in citing data that says we’re much lower numbers than that and on our way out. Look, you can be the anti-religious bigot if you want to be. Just don’t try to blow smoke up our asses and tell us the assault on our religious freedom of expression doesn’t exist. ANd do no ever presume that we don’t have the same right of public expression that you have to voice our concerns.

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 6:52 PM

All of which goes to prove that atheism is merely another form of religion. particularly the strident militarism that has become so apparent of late. It is one thing to hold a different belief and another entirely to ridicule and attempt to stifle those who hold another. the parallels between these actions and fanatic Islam is striking. The inability to see the hypocrisy just another symptom displayed by “true believers”

pgrossjr on December 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM

wtf dude?

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 6:43 PM

what is it?

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 6:46 PM

I’ve been gone to my in-laws for what, four hour and you’re still trying to talk Christians out of Christmas. Are you like Sauerkraut537 and on some kind of crusade?

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM

Apparently, if there’s one square foot of public space not covered by a nativity scene or other Christian-themed holiday decoration, there’s a secular war on Christmas, they’re trying to take God out of the public square, etc. etc.

Can you even debate the specifics of any one story. In your very short time commenting here on Hot Air, you already have quite the reputation as a troll. Is that what you were shooting for?

I’m getting pretty sick of this Christian persecution complex that crops up every single Christmas and Easter.

I’m getting pretty sick of the very active anti-religion crowd doing things that are in a very real sense religious persecution and then b1tch because we b1tch about it. I’m guessing you don’t believe in the freedom of religion or speech.

It’s not enough for some people to be able to freely practice their beliefs; they need the government to promote them too.

Is celebrating our religious beliefs in public a threat to you in any way, shape or form?

Apparently, the religion nominally professed by 80% of the population really, really needs that extra visibility or it’s going to disappear into the void.

theodore on December 24, 2011 at 5:03 PM

Some of your brethren take much glee in citing data that says we’re much lower numbers than that and on our way out. Look, you can be the anti-religious bigot if you want to be. Just don’t try to blow smoke up our asses and tell us the assault on our religious freedom of expression doesn’t exist.

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 6:56 PM

Nothing in the Constitution says you have a right to block other people from exercising their rights. The Courts who rule otherwise have created the nonsensical situation where one curmudgeon can veto everyone else from being happy.

Overbearing religionists are annoying, too, but manger scenes and menorahs are hardly overbearing. There’s a lot of religious programming on TV, but since I only watch what I care to, it doesn’t bother me.

flataffect on December 24, 2011 at 6:57 PM

The Gnostic Gospels were written a few hundred years after the life of Christ and His immediate followers, while the works in the Bible (New Testament) were written within 90 years of His death and resurrection – by people who knew Him, and some of whom saw Him after the resurrection.

This page addresses the topic of the Gnostic Gospels a little bit, and a few related issues:
Not InDavincible: A Review and Critique of The DaVinci Code

What About the Gospel of Thomas?

Are the Biblical Documents Reliable?

TigerPaw on December 24, 2011 at 6:50 PM

the gospel of thomas dating is still a controversy, but many consider the gospel to be early:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas#Date_of_composition

but really i already had this argument before and ended up with a “my scholar d”#k is bigger that your scholar D#$k” and therefore you are wrong.

for the reason above i dont want to repeat the debate but in my opinion its very hard to really know what were jesus real words and what was forged, adulterated or cut out in the bible.

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 7:09 PM

All of which goes to prove that atheism is merely another form of religion. particularly the strident militarism that has become so apparent of late. It is one thing to hold a different belief and another entirely to ridicule and attempt to stifle those who hold another. the parallels between these actions and fanatic Islam is striking. The inability to see the hypocrisy just another symptom displayed by “true believers”

pgrossjr on December 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM

its our way of pleasing the dark lord!

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 7:11 PM

isn’t a bit strange to celebrate Christmas at all if the birth date can never be really know?

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM

It is about the event not the date, but you probably find that strange too. Is your real name Thomas?

Wade on December 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM

I’m still confused.

I don’t believe in Astrology, I believe it’s complete crap and useless.

But when Yahoo, Facebook, G-mail, etc offer me “Free Daily Horoscopes” I don’t go ballistic and try to shut down all Horoscope readings because I don’t believe in it.

If the city website offered a “free horoscope”… still don’t care. “But it’s something you don’t believe in on Public Property” you say?

Yeah… don’t care. Don’t see why anyone would care… can’t find a reason to bother in the slightest; completely don’t care.

I just don’t see any reason to get really really worked up about something I don’t believe in.

Oh, unless it’s Christmas, because that’s fun for kids; and we’ve got to stop all fun for kids or they’ll have fun. And if being a joyless annoying pr*ck can stop some kids from having a good time; I’m all for it. So maybe I do get why they’d oppose Christmas.

Clarify it for me Atheist; is it just because you’re joyless annoying busybodies without anything useful to do but try to ruin the season and fun for everyone else?

Or is there a halfway logical reason for this level of effort going into stopping something you don’t believe in from being promoted?

gekkobear on December 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

I’m getting pretty sick of the very active anti-religion crowd doing things that are in a very real sense religious persecution and then b1tch because we b1tch about it. I’m guessing you don’t believe in the freedom of religion or speech.

Like what? what is the “very active anti-religion crowd” doing that is “in a very real sense religious persecution”? Trying to prevent taxpayer-funded public property from being used to host religious material that promotes the doctrine of that one particular religion?

Is celebrating our religious beliefs in public a threat to you in any way, shape or form?

I don’t know, would putting up giant billboards promoting atheism on public property be a threat to you in any way, shape or form? If so, why?

Some of your brethren take much glee in citing data that says we’re much lower numbers than that and on our way out.

Which shouldn’t bother you or cause you to feel threatened, unless you feel that they’re right. Are they?

theodore on December 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM

These aren’t really atheists. They are just mean, sick people.

JellyToast on December 24, 2011 at 7:20 PM

I think the reason they don’t want Christmas to be displayed,
celebrated, etc. is that Christianity has evolved whereby the
people who follow it mostly have a code of good behavior. At least many of us try.

The insanity in this current world has mostly been instigated by
non believers(Not that there aren’t exceptions). The more they
can lessen the importance of Christianity and good works the
greater harm they can cause to society.

At any rate, Merry Christmas to all of you! I enjoy this forum
very much.

Amjean on December 24, 2011 at 7:21 PM

Or is there a halfway logical reason for this level of effort going into stopping something you don’t believe in from being promoted?

gekkobear on December 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

No because by saying you do not believe in something, logically is saying it exists.

Wade on December 24, 2011 at 7:23 PM

Merry Christmas to all the conservatives on Hot Air. May God be with you throughout the coming new year.

MisterElephant on December 24, 2011 at 7:26 PM

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Thanks For Sharing, Merry Christmas.

Dr Evil on December 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM

It is about the event not the date, but you probably find that strange too. Is your real name Thomas?

Wade on December 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM

no.

i think i had enough of waging war on christmas. one day we will win! muahahahah!
lol!
merry christmas everybody!

nathor on December 24, 2011 at 7:46 PM

Merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah, y’all.

juliesa on December 24, 2011 at 7:51 PM

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

An angel whispered. More angels heard, and acted. A child was healed, and a family was blessed. Thank you.

Small pockets of sheer radiance in a world gone mad. But good will win in the end.

Merry Christmas.

Yoop on December 24, 2011 at 7:54 PM

Atheists don’t bother me if they don’t bother me. But here they bother me and I must regard them as apish atheists …..

Sherman1864 on December 24, 2011 at 8:06 PM

They held a lottery and the atheists won. This is just sour grapes. Last time I checked there were churches all over the country where they can display the symbols of Christian mythology, which is where they belong.

Are you going to support the muslims when they want to promote their religion on property paid for with your tax dollars? How many of you Christians support the ground zero mosque? You shoving your mythology on society is no different than them doing it. Protesting that mosque is no different than this story except that you are on the receiving end this time.

Dan_Yul on December 24, 2011 at 8:12 PM

@Dan_Yul…

Excellent point. Why do Christians feel the need to use public lands to forward their fairy tales on the rest of us.

You have churches galore nationwide right? Put the creche and other religious symbols on non taxed church land, not public land paid for and kept up by OUR (meaning everyone’s) tax dollars.

Any Muslims out there have a right to bitch because your religion is being given precedence over theirs when that happens.

When the Muslims and people of other religions start hoisting their religious symbols on public land I bet you’d be screaming bloody murder.

SauerKraut537 on December 24, 2011 at 8:17 PM

Whenever I listen to the So Called Atheists talk I’m convinced of one thing.

They are not really Atheists.

You see, when I hear their venom and loathing I’m convinced of one thing the vocal lot of them have in common, they do not disbelieve the existance of God; they, in fact, Hate God!
Since it is impossible to hate that which you do not beleive exists, the cannot possibly be Atheists.

jaydee_007 on December 24, 2011 at 8:19 PM

maybe jesus or god wanted the date to be unknown on purpose so that the birth of Christ would be celebrated everyday!

but the real story was not just the picking of the day that happened to be the 25 of December. the true story is that this date was specifically picked to coincide with the sun deity birth.

The REAL STORY is that we picked a day to celebrate the greatest gift ever given.

That there was theological motivation over picking a date should come as no surprise (and neither should there be thought to be some great “conspiracy”).

I guess I just don’t see any problem in picking a date and sticking with it.

Religious_Zealot on December 24, 2011 at 8:26 PM

TigerPaw on December 24, 2011 at 6:50 PM

nathor and I (and others) have gone round and round about Thomas and the other gnostic writings. Nathor simply chooses to believe (despite ample evidence to the contrary) that Thomas was written in the first century and somehow represents the “true” story that the church later “covered up.”

I just want to let you know not to waste too much time because nathor ‘religiously’ (pun intended) clings to his ‘unbelief.’

Religious_Zealot on December 24, 2011 at 8:29 PM

Dan_Yul on December 24, 2011 at 8:12 PM

Merry Christmas, Dan!

bw222 on December 24, 2011 at 8:38 PM

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 4:39 PM

BedBug is simply employing the standard liberal argument when confronted with facts: Shut up.

So, since a law is currently in effect, for him that means it is permanently immutable? I’ll bet I can name ten things which were law in the last 20 years that he would be thrilled have changed, so his position that “such is law, therefore shut up about it” isn’t even a valid attempt at an argument.

But, as usual, liberals want to have it both ways.

Freelancer on December 24, 2011 at 8:47 PM

why is the emphasis tag open?

pannw on December 24, 2011 at 8:53 PM

I have about as much patience for an atheist pushing his/her beliefs (or lack thereof)on me as I do for an evangelical Christian doing the same. But at least the evangelical does it out of some sense of love – what motivates the atheist I’m just not sure….

dingding on December 24, 2011 at 9:04 PM

why is the emphasis tag open?

pannw on December 24, 2011 at 8:53 PM

A non-believer got the other half banned? ;-)

Yoop on December 24, 2011 at 9:05 PM

I don’t know, would putting up giant billboards promoting atheism on public property be a threat to you in any way, shape or form?
theodore on December 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM

Not particularly. Why don’t you guys pick a couple of weeks, call it “atheotime” or something and put up billboards no larger than the typical creche for two weeks and then shut up about it for the rest of the year? Would that make you happy?

Solaratov on December 24, 2011 at 9:13 PM

I have no problem with people being athiests, but we are seing is the rise of hate filled militant athiests who see anyone that believes in religion as a fool.
Look at the signs they are puting up and you will see what I mean.

Hard Right on December 24, 2011 at 9:36 PM

I don’t believe in atheism. I believe these people do this for attention and to disrupt the lives of other people who do have a moral core and do believe in God. They are clearly not trying to recruit new members – they are just attention hungry egotists.

IlonaE on December 24, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Let’s see.
Try renting. You don’t have to pay taxes, not directly, but funny that your landlord will still charge you for them. But, it will make you feel better.
Use your vote..that was your congress that voted for to subsidize Amtrak.
The Foot Washing. Try being a little sensitive to other’s religious beliefs. It’s not just decorations, it’s for their prayers.
OWS had a right to protest. If you have a problem, go out and clean it up yourself before the trashman gets there.
Feel better?

BedBug on December 24, 2011 at 1:51 PM

-
This well is not very deep ya’ll… and it’s too close to the cesspool… Don’t drink from it.
-

RalphyBoy on December 24, 2011 at 10:07 PM

As an atheist these types of stories piss me off. Ok, they’re ‘asserting their rights’ to do what? Silence others? They don’t HAVE that right! There is nothing wrong with people putting up Nativity scenes during the Christmas holiday. If you don’t want to celebrate it, then don’t. But to try and force OTHER PEOPLE to not celebrate it, then claim you’re fighting for YOUR rights? These people give moronic paltroons a bad name.

wolfva on December 24, 2011 at 10:11 PM

One more time…

I’m an atheist who loves Christmas. Got lights, tree, fire, friends of all kinds coming over. The person who refuses to attend my Christmas party is a dear friend who feels uncomfortable around Christmas and I can’t understand why but he says it’s his Judaism that causes his discomfort even though about a third of my guests are other Jews.

It’s fun, especially the way the British celebrate Christmas.

Have a Merry Christmas everyone! Most atheists I know enjoy the season. Our government isn’t supposed to support one faith or sect above others or none. That is enshrined in constitutional law and it is a good thing. There is still plenty of Christmas around for everyone who wants to enjoy it.

lexhamfox on December 24, 2011 at 10:40 PM

pannw on December 24, 2011 at 8:49 PM

Nice link. : )

Capitalist Hog on December 24, 2011 at 5:20 PM

You didn’t express your definition of ‘omnipotent’ there.
I believe it means “all powerful”, and as such I thought it worked in that application.
Perhaps I should have used the word ‘immortal’?

Or a phrase, like: “. . . . . the absolute final autority, that can never be revoked.”?

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 10:45 PM

There are valid/legitimate/Constitutional ways of overturning Roe vs Wade. But based on your posts, you must believe Roe vs Wade to be “omnipotent.”
listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 4:39 PM

You have no idea what you’re talking about, do you?
Capitalist Hog on December 24, 2011 at 5:21 PM

You’re going to have to expound on that.

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 10:53 PM

I’m an atheist who loves Christmas.

lexhamfox on December 24, 2011 at 10:40 PM

Merry Christmas, lexhamfox. Enjoyed your story.

BruthaMan on December 24, 2011 at 10:57 PM

There is still plenty of Christmas around for everyone who wants to enjoy it.

lexhamfox on December 24, 2011 at 10:40 PM

That’s my spirit of it all as a Christian. Merry Christmas to you too lex.

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 11:00 PM

BedBug is simply employing the standard liberal argument when confronted with facts: Shut up.

So, since a law is currently in effect, for him that means it is permanently immutable? I’ll bet I can name ten things which were law in the last 20 years that he would be thrilled have changed, so his position that “such is law, therefore shut up about it” isn’t even a valid attempt at an argument.

But, as usual, liberals want to have it both ways.

Freelancer on December 24, 2011 at 8:47 PM

Permanently immutable might have been a better choice of words.
Thanks, and Merry Christ Mass!

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 11:01 PM

theodore on December 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM

What a pitiful response.

Please just get banned now. All the other trolls have some purpose in what they display as a popular liberal paradigm to understand and learn from. Your comments make little or no sense and are just a waste of time.

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 11:07 PM

Merry Christmas L2G!!!

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 11:08 PM

ghettogasman on December 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Thank you for such a wonderful Christmas story. You and your coworkers truly made a difference to this family and showed what the spirit of Christmas is all about; peace and goodwill towards man.

Thank you again and have a very Merry Christmas.

njrob on December 24, 2011 at 6:01 PM

Dittos what njrob said. : )

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 11:13 PM

If somebody wants to put up a big menorah on one of the lots, I don’t think anyone is going to get too worked up over it.

For years, one of the displays in Palisades Park has been a large Menorah — sponsored by Chabad.

As for the atheists swamping the auction — well, they won big this year, but next year we are ready for them. If they want to play the numbers game, we’re ready.

unclesmrgol on December 24, 2011 at 11:15 PM

I don’t understand these loud atheists. I’m an atheist, and I say live and let live.

What’s so offensive about a nativity scene? It’s not like it walked off the lawn and kicked someone in the jewels.

caldfyr on December 24, 2011 at 11:19 PM

When I see Atheists bring lawsuits and hear them express their offense on all religions equally, that is when I will agree they are not at war with Christians and Jews. Those who are Atheists or are defending them on this thread can you show me any lawsuits against any other religions other then Christians and Jews? Outrage from Atheists being offended by any other Religion?

IowaWoman on December 24, 2011 at 11:24 PM

I don’t know, would putting up giant billboards promoting atheism on public property be a threat to you in any way, shape or form? If so, why?

theodore on December 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM

I don’t have a problem with them taking a cage (all of the spots are enclosed in chain link cages for anti-vandalism reasons — apparently the atheists used different techniques in the past to get their message across), or even several cages, but to deliberately swamp the lottery and take most of the cages — and then to not use them — shows a level of religious intolerance to which few fundimentalists could rise.

Their intent is obviously to get the City to shut down the displays completely — well they tried vandalism and that didn’t work, so they tried swamping the lottery and that isn’t going to work…

Given that Christians and Jews vastly outnumber atheists in Santa Monica, we shall see how the lottery goes next year.

unclesmrgol on December 24, 2011 at 11:35 PM

Atheism does not exist!!

May God Bless the United States of America and have mercy on our souls!

Merry CHRISTMAS to all and to all a good night!

long_cat on December 24, 2011 at 11:38 PM

Merry Christmas L2G!!!

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 11:08 PM

Lordy, how did I overlook this 1/2 hour ago?

And a Merry Christ Mass to you, hawkdriver! : )

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 11:39 PM

listens2glenn on December 24, 2011 at 11:39 PM

You must have been still wrapping presents like me. :-)

hawkdriver on December 24, 2011 at 11:41 PM

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