West to Holder: It’s not about your color, it’s about your competence

posted at 4:50 pm on December 19, 2011 by Tina Korbe

Attorney General Eric Holder told The New York Times this weekend that “the more extreme segment” of his Fast and Furious critics are motivated by — you guessed it — racism. But Florida Rep. Allen West will have none of it.

In remarks to The Daily Caller, West interpreted Holder’s shameless rhetorical tactic as a sign of desperation — and called him out for his non-race-related incompetence:

“I think this is absolutely the last card in the deck, and that shows how weak their ground is,” West said in a phone interview. “But, what that means is they want to make white individuals afraid of continuing to put the pressure on Eric Holder because they don’t want to be seen as racist, and that is something that we have got to move beyond.”

West said Holder can’t logically assign race as a motivation behind the criticisms for his handling of Operation Fast and Furious. “What Fast and Furious has to do with is misleading the Congress and the American people about what you knew about this program, and if you did not know anything about this program, then who’s in charge of the Department of Justice?” West said. “It has nothing to do with your race — it has everything to do with competence, with your character and with your ability to lead the Department of Justice.”

West said Holder’s use of race as a way to attack his critics is “the most insidious thing I ever heard.”

“I grew up in the United States military and it’s not about your color, it’s about your competence, it’s about your abilities to execute a mission,” West said. “If your commanding officer turns heat on you, it’s because you have failed to achieve the mission and I think what we’re doing is we’re looking at something that was a very horrible program — this Operation Fast and Furious.”

It’s not about your color, it’s about your competence. What a great lesson for us all!

That Holder himself wanted to introduce race to this equation — that he was the first to bring it up as a possible motivating factor behind the investigations into Fast and Furious and the 60 congressional calls for his resignation — suggests he’s afraid to be judged by his competence alone. That shows Holder at least has some kind of clue. After all, that he can provide no explanation as to how he came to preside — with or without knowledge — over an operation that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans and U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry doesn’t make a good case against calls for his resignation.


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We are about to learn how many girlfriends the Col. has and how many cell phone bills he has paid.

hillsoftx on December 19, 2011 at 5:58 PM

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 5:26 PM

Know what? Every time I see vintage pictures of the KKK all dressed up in their sheets, all I see is registered Democrats.

BigAlSouth on December 19, 2011 at 5:58 PM

Oh come now, only one major conservative is making the case for an end to criminal injustice policies that work to ensure generational poverty.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 5:49 PM

BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Of course. If you sell drugs on the street corner, it is wrong for me to arrest and imprison you because it means your baby will grow up poor.

Of course, you have no responsibility for your actions. None. You are not accountable for anything you do. Society made you sell and use drugs.

What a freaking load of crap. Do you honestly think a white person could pull that in court? If not, why on earth would a black person be able to do it?

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 6:01 PM

You’re not agreeing with West,

Not only do I agree with West, my argument is that Holder should be taken even further to task. Claiming that criticisms of failed policy is “racism” while doing nothing to use your influence to alleviate actual structural racisms enacted by the criminal injustice system is pretty jacked up. Which totally proves I hate Bush or something.

Drugs are illegal so someone declared a war on them and it has had mixed results.

No, no it hasn’t. There is nothing “mixed” about the results of the War on Drugs. Fast and Furious is only the latest in a long line of inadvertently destructive and deadly policies that have emerged from that War.

You are spinning to protect Obama and Holder.

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 5:54 PM

That’s such a strange reading of my posts I’m not sure where to begin. Only to say that I don’t believe that “the war on drugs made them do it.” Holder, Obama and all of the people behind these policies are grown adults who have access to the same data (if not more) than the rest of us that demonstrates the WOD is an absolute failure. Considering that WOD is actually about political concerns “tough on crime” and all that foolishness, then we shouldn’t be surprised when other opportunistic politically motivated claptrap emerges in its wake. And yes, I know that means I hate Bush, I got it. Its all about hating Bush.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:03 PM

As a black man Holder *should* be more cognizant of the way the War on Drugs has devastated inner city areas, like Washington, D.C. where he has lived for years.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM

Yes the color of his skin should determine how he thinks, feels, and acts on the issue. He should leave his ability to think at home when he leaves for work in the morning. You’re really a piece of work. You’re the racist and you cannot even see it. Look in the mirror.Just plain silly.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Of course. If you sell drugs on the street corner, it is wrong for me to arrest and imprison you because it means your baby will grow up poor.

Exactly. How is my selling drugs on a street corner hurting anyone to the point where I should be deprived of my freedom, locked behind a jail cell, denied any and all access to federal student aide and become labelled with the category of “felon” on any job application in my future?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:05 PM

Excellent job West! We need more of you, say it is as it really is. Obama set back race relations 50 years.

who won on December 19, 2011 at 6:05 PM

It’s not about your color, it’s about your competence.

Well no friggin’ sh!t.

Tim_CA on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Yes the color of his skin should determine how he thinks, feels, and acts on the issue. He should leave his ability to think at home when he leaves for work in the morning. You’re really a piece of work. You’re the racist and you cannot even see it. Look in the mirror.Just plain silly.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Failing to understand that the war on drugs is a failure that only hurts Americans is an example of leaving ones “ability to think at home.”

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 5:50 PM

I’m familiar and agree that’s a fair reading of Democrats post-scandal embarassment spin.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 5:56 PM

Here’s another shovel. You need one for each hand.

What about the remark O’bama made to Sarah Brady, about doing gun control “under the radar”? That’s what F & F was all about.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Thank you Mr. West!
My people thank you!

KOOLAID2 on December 19, 2011 at 6:09 PM

Failing to understand that the war on drugs is a failure that only hurts Americans is an example of leaving ones “ability to think at home.”

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

I wonder if Holder were white how should he think?

You do realize your response actually was pretty lame. You look at the world through your racist prism. You are one of the biggest racists here. If you were capable of being honest with yourself(to heck with being honest with the rest of us) you would see it.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:09 PM

Holder, Obama and all of the people behind these policies are grown adults who have access to the same data (if not more) than the rest of us

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:03 PM

But “the rest of us” aren’t anti-guns. Holder and O’bama are.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Exactly. How is my selling drugs on a street corner hurting anyone to the point where I should be deprived of my freedom, locked behind a jail cell, denied any and all access to federal student aide and become labelled with the category of “felon” on any job application in my future?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:05 PM

Hmmm let us see. Society has determined that drug use is dangerous and damaging. Heck society has determined that to sell many drugs you have to have a license . Society has made laws that deal with such things. If you break the law you may pay the price. You really have a dim view of people an their abilities .

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:11 PM

As a black man Holder *should* be more cognizant of the way the War on Drugs has devastated inner city areas, like Washington, D.C. where he has lived for years.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM

Holder’s never lived in the Inner City part of D.C.

http://www.celebrityhousepictures.com/eric-holder.php

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:12 PM

What a freaking load of crap. Do you honestly think a white person could pull that in court? If not, why on earth would a black person be able to do it?

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 6:01 PM

You’re from north dallas, what a coincidence, I lived there for most of my adolescence. I went to the Greenhiil School but lived close to Plano, home of the black heroin scandals. Prior to the ODs how many cops were patrolling the halls of Plano high (or my school), how many cops were busting the gatherings of wealthy north dallas kids as they smoked pot, did coke and eventually turned to heroin? Where the Dallas county jails filled with these “dangerous offendors?” Indeed the whole event was seen as “shocking” because “it wasn’t supposed to happen here.” Right?

But the drug use, as you very well know, was rampant. You also know that, if caught, kids from north dallas lawyered up and made precisely those kinds of arguments before judges about “their bright futures” how it was “a youthful mistake” etc. etc. in exchange for probation, community service and an expunged record. So please, don’t pretend as if the prosecution of the war on drugs happens equally based upon the number of drugs being used. That is demonstrably false, just look at the local history of your own community.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:13 PM

Failing to understand that the war on drugs is a failure that only hurts Americans is an example of leaving ones “ability to think at home.”

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

I still look at this response and have laugh. You totally ignore your racism. Ahhh I know the rest of America has a race problem…just not you. Got it.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:13 PM

Failing to understand that the war on drugs is a failure that only hurts Americans is an example of leaving ones “ability to think at home.”

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

The war on drugs only hurts Americans? Do explain.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM

What about the remark O’bama made to Sarah Brady, about doing gun control “under the radar”? That’s what F & F was all about.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Absolutely. This wasn’t a matter of incompetence. They knew exactly what they were doing … and that is to create a crisis which will allow them to argue for more gun control. They just got caught.

Socialism is a failed concept. It is doomed to failure. The only question is, how long will it take? They know that. That is why Socialists abhor gun ownership by the People. The Socialists would prefer that any future revolution involve only an unarmed People.

OhEssYouCowboys on December 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Exactly. How is my selling drugs on a street corner hurting anyone to the point where I should be deprived of my freedom, locked behind a jail cell, denied any and all access to federal student aide and become labelled with the category of “felon” on any job application in my future?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:05 PM

Easy.

When your junkie ass buying them overdoses, it’s not you who is paying for the ambulance trip, the free hospital care, and the like; it’s me.

When you leave your baby locked in the apartment and then end up in the hospital after scoring a fix, it won’t be you who is paying for their care, feeding, and education; it’s me.

When you hop yourself up, jump in your car, and drive the wrong way down the interstate, likely it’s not you who’s going to be killed or injured; it’s going to be me.

You want freedom? Fine and dandy. Assume all responsibility for everything you do and the damage you cause, and you can put whatever fool thing you want in your body.

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Absolutely. This wasn’t a matter of incompetence. They knew exactly what they were doing … and that is to create a crisis which will allow them to argue for more gun control. They just got caught.

Socialism is a failed concept. It is doomed to failure. The only question is, how long will it take? They know that. That is why Socialists abhor gun ownership by the People. The Socialists would prefer that any future revolution involve only an unarmed People.

OhEssYouCowboys on December 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Anti-gun activist Sarah Brady claims President Barack Obama is committed to stealth gun control according to a report in The Washington Post.

Recounting a March 30 meeting between Brady, her husband Jim and White House Press secretary Jay Carney, The Post reports:

During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:17 PM

The war on drugs only hurts Americans? Do explain.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM

I didn’t say it only hurts Americans. It is a global war and the victims of that war are all over the world.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:18 PM

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:13 PM

Ezra? Is that you, dear?

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:18 PM

As a new member to Hot-Air trying to be respectful to all.Someone please tell me what trolls mean here on Hot-Air?I think i know but just to be sure someone tell me.

logman1 on December 19, 2011 at 4:30 PM
I’m new too and apparently it means anyone who isn’t a conservative or who disagrees with angryed. He’s been stalking my posts or any line of conversation I’m a part of. Its a bit of a mystery. You would think that the people running this site, who have the ability to ban people, would know better than him. He even yells at other posters when they respond to me, its incredibly controlling and creepy behavior.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 4:34 PM

===================================================================
(this is from another thread Tina Korbes presented at 3:25 PM)
OMG! Remember the goof that thought everyone here “Obsessed” on him!
WILL YOU FOLKS…. PLEASE QUIT “STALKING” libfreeordie’s posts!
I will report you to Eric Holder AND Attack Watch…your heads will spin!

KOOLAID2 on December 19, 2011 at 6:20 PM

You want freedom? Fine and dandy. Assume all responsibility for everything you do and the damage you cause, and you can put whatever fool thing you want in your body.

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Nah can’t have that. LibFree means libfree on you.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:20 PM

The war on drugs only hurts Americans? Do explain.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM

I didn’t say it only hurts Americans. It is a global war and the victims of that war are all over the world.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:18 PM

Yes you did.

Failing to understand that the war on drugs is a failure that only hurts Americans is an example of leaving ones “ability to think at home.”

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Need another shovel?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:21 PM

I didn’t say it only hurts Americans. It is a global war and the victims of that war are all over the world.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:18 PM

Dear random WH poster:

Stop switching the subject. Stop changing the narrative. Your old way of doing business in the 90′s no longer resonates.

Eric Holder is a criminal. He mandated, orchestrated and facilitated the movement of lethal arms from border States in the US into Mexico in an effort to satiate Obama’s appetite for gun control. You had better make ready, because several bloggers have already picked up on Holder’s/Clinton’s connections to the OKC bombings.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:22 PM

When you hop yourself up, jump in your car, and drive the wrong way down the interstate, likely it’s not you who’s going to be killed or injured; it’s going to be me.

If drugs were legal, driving while intoxicated would still be illegal, just as it is illegal even though the purchase and sale of alcohol is legal.

When your junkie ass buying them overdoses, it’s not you who is paying for the ambulance trip, the free hospital care, and the like; it’s me.

You also pay for it when someone who drinks themselves into liver failure, or eats enough french fries to give themselves a heart attack needs an ambulance. You pay for it if a stupid kid breaks a leg while doing a skateboarding trick and needs to be taken to the hospital. So the solution is make skateboarding illegal?

When you leave your baby locked in the apartment and then end up in the hospital after scoring a fix, it won’t be you who is paying for their care, feeding, and education; it’s me.

When a young mother who has never done a drug in her life gives her child up for foster care (presumably better than an abortion right?) you pay for that. So all sex without a condom should be illegal too?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:22 PM

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Good post.

Don’t forget when the junkie ass robs or kills your ass for your wallet to get their next fix.

bazil9 on December 19, 2011 at 6:22 PM

Need another shovel?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Ouch.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:23 PM

Need another shovel?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Seriously? That’s a grammar error, I meant that the War On Drugs is only harmful. Not that it is exclusively harmful to Americans.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM

LibFree means libfree on you.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:20 PM

What’s so hilarious is that this one has hijacked my State’s motto.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM

Failing to understand that the war on drugs is a failure that only hurts Americans is an example of leaving ones “ability to think at home.”

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

——————————————————————-

C A A A A R C K H E A D!

KOOLAID2 on December 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM

I love Allen West, mostly for things such as this. He says it like it is and doesn’t care who disagrees. The fact that he so openly took on Debbie Wasserman-Schultz brings him up a bit in my book. :)

NextGenerationVoters on December 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM

Holder is the real racist in the room along with the Failed President. They both should resign immediately and be criminally charged for conspiracy to murder as they BOTH new what was happening. This was a coverup for NEW american gun laws is all.

Brushjumper on December 19, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Need another shovel?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Seriously? That’s a grammar error, I meant that the War On Drugs is only harmful. Not that it is exclusively harmful to Americans.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM

Yes, Dear. Whatever you say!

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:26 PM

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:22 PM

Sounds like you are arguing for the prohibition of alcohol. Wow you have been converted. Oh a little project for you. I can tell you have a thirst for knowledge and are not stuck on your position about illegal drugs. Go research the truth about Prohibition. It actually had some positive effects on society. I know you would rather think not because it hurts your arguments about drug use. I dare ya.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

It’s not about competence. Look at his Q&E. Holder knows law, he’s been at Justice before, he’s run offices of comparable size.

No, it’s not about competence. It’s about negligence. This program could not have been run without at the bare minimum, his tacit approval. The fact that he hasn’t hauled everyone involved up on charges by now is testimony to the fact that he he found the running of guns to gangsters without tracking them to be not a problem, not to mention a crime.

Holder is a smart man, and even if he wasn’t he could have anticipated what the guns run to gangsters, without any attempt to track them, would be used for and what the results would be: dead people.

The deaths of some 200 Mexicans and at least one American Officer of Law is nothing less than sheer and unadulterated negligence on Holder’s part. And for that he should made to pay the piper in a court of law.

Dusty on December 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

But the drug use, as you very well know, was rampant. You also know that, if caught, kids from north dallas lawyered up and made precisely those kinds of arguments before judges about “their bright futures” how it was “a youthful mistake” etc. etc. in exchange for probation, community service and an expunged record. So please, don’t pretend as if the prosecution of the war on drugs happens equally based upon the number of drugs being used. That is demonstrably false, just look at the local history of your own community.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:13 PM

Actually, I’m very familiar with the local history, including the sentences that were handed down.

So nice try.

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Nah can’t have that. LibFree means libfree on you.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:20 PM

“libfreeordie” is an oxymoron.

Liberals [Socialists, actually - I hate euphemisms] demand that all must become dependent on the State. How can one be “free” AND “dependent” on the State?

Talk about a non-sequitur.

OhEssYouCowboys on December 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

This is the next Ronald Reagan. As somebody who lived under the Reagan presidency I can say with confidence: nobody else comes close.

I hope this man decides to run. Gingrich is gone and people are flocking to Crazy Uncle Ron Paul. This would be a disaster.

If this isn’t a critical time when his country needs him then what is?

NickDeringer on December 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Failing to understand that the war on drugs is a failure that only hurts Americans is an example of leaving ones “ability to think at home.”

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Since I apparently do not understand what the War on Drugs is, how about you explain it to me, in very simplistic terms, so that my knuckle dragging mouth breathing self can understand it… in liberal terms?

Thank you.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:29 PM

West said Holder can’t logically assign race as a motivation behind the criticisms for his handling of Operation Fast and Furious. “What Fast and Furious has to do with is misleading the Congress and the American people about what you knew about this program, and if you did not know anything about this program, then who’s in charge of the Department of Justice?” West said. “It has nothing to do with your race — it has everything to do with competence, with your character and with your ability to lead the Department of Justice.”

West said Holder’s use of race as a way to attack his critics is “the most insidious thing I ever heard.”

Thank you, Colonel West.

My thoughts, exactly, don’t mind saying.

Lourdes on December 19, 2011 at 6:29 PM

Curious how many here are praising West that, just a few months ago, announced him a coward and a traitor for supporting the debt ceiling deal.

I’ve liked him since I first heard of him a couple of years ago. He hasn’t voted exactly as Tea Partiers have wanted, but then, doing so would make him more like Bachmann and Paul – symbolic rather than effective. He’s striking a proper balance, as well as battling the liberal narratives that seek to bury the GOP-led House as much as possible.

MadisonConservative on December 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Actually, I’m very familiar with the local history, including the sentences that were handed down.

So nice try.

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Yes we all know that, in this case, sentencing and prosecution was harsh because of the scandal. But if you’re really familiar with the Dallas CJS (and CJS’ around the country) you also know that economic class and a good lawyer has a major impact on your outcome. The point is that none of these non-crimes should be prosecuted.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:29 PM

If you don’t know what the War on Drugs is, I’m not so sure I (or anyone) can help you.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM

What about Holder’s racism against Latinos? He didn’t, and doesn’t, seem to care how many hundreds of Mexican Latinos he killed with his Gun Running.

VorDaj on December 19, 2011 at 5:00 PM

No, no, Holder favors the terrorist-gang ones. FARC, for example.

Lourdes on December 19, 2011 at 6:32 PM

Need another shovel?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:21 PM
Seriously? That’s a grammar error, I meant that the War On Drugs is only harmful. Not that it is exclusively harmful to Americans.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM

—————————————————————–
The pooh pooh is sticking to the one, and it is getting heavier and heavier…….so, yes!

KOOLAID2 on December 19, 2011 at 6:33 PM

Exactly. How is my selling drugs on a street corner hurting anyone to the point where I should be deprived of my freedom, locked behind a jail cell, denied any and all access to federal student aide and become labelled with the category of “felon” on any job application in my future?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:05 PM

Well, Libby, I kinda think anyone looking for the easy money selling an illegal, addictive and profoundly destructive substance on a street corner, or anywhere else for that matter, should not be entitled to some of that “federal student aide (sic)”.

In your world, is there any consequence to illegal behavior?

BigAlSouth on December 19, 2011 at 6:33 PM

a good lawyer has a major impact on your outcome…

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM

You get what you pay for. In a free society, when you have the opportunity to hire your own defense, it’s no different but it’s still better than life in a “Committee Rules” society where anyone accused is guilty when the Committee decides you are.

Lourdes on December 19, 2011 at 6:35 PM

Sounds like you are arguing for the prohibition of alcohol. Wow you have been converted. Oh a little project for you. I can tell you have a thirst for knowledge and are not stuck on your position about illegal drugs. Go research the truth about Prohibition. It actually had some positive effects on society. I know you would rather think not because it hurts your arguments about drug use. I dare ya.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Yes I’m quite familiar with the ways the temperance movement served as a major institutional building block for early feminist organizations. Speakeasies also were important sites for interracial interaction, as well as being some of the nation’s first gay bars in cities like New York and Chicago. Prohibition brought Tequila into our lives, and I remain thankful. But for all of that it failed, just as drug prohibition has failed.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:35 PM

If you don’t know what the War on Drugs is, I’m not so sure I (or anyone) can help you.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM

Snicker.

Of course I know what it is and when it originated. My request, was for you to explain it to me in liberal terms. In your mind, what is the War on Drugs? What does it mean, in liberal’s minds?

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM

He has the bearing and manner of a President.

TheClearRiver on December 19, 2011 at 6:37 PM

In your world, is there any consequence to illegal behavior?

BigAlSouth on December 19, 2011 at 6:33 PM

Of course, but why are illegal drugs illegal in the first place?

You get what you pay for. In a free society, when you have the opportunity to hire your own defense, it’s no different but it’s still better than life in a “Committee Rules” society where anyone accused is guilty when the Committee decides you are.

Lourdes on December 19, 2011 at 6:35 PM

So we’re admitting that the concept of blind justice in our society is a farce. I mean, I’m already there, its just surprising to hear a conservative openly admitting to that. Now your hypothetical “committee rules” society is interesting. Because we actually live in a society where “justice” is based upon income, rather than an equal assessment of what happens. Your “committee rules” society is only a hypothetical. I’d suggest that by limiting the jurisdiction of the criminal justice to crimes that actually harm another individual it brings us closer to the “blind justice” ideal.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:39 PM

You want freedom? Fine and dandy. Assume all responsibility for everything you do and the damage you cause, and you can put whatever fool thing you want in your body.

northdallasthirty on December 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

So, we should bring back prohibition?

Spliff Menendez on December 19, 2011 at 6:40 PM

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:29 PM
If you don’t know what the War on Drugs is, I’m not so sure I (or anyone) can help you.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM

===================================================================
Geeeez! You never read Hot Air before you got in…did you?
You think one of them stalked you before?
I’m looking at the names of the posters whose buttons you are pressing.
Dude! Here’s some advice!…..Pour bleach on your brain….bend over as far as you can…and contort to a point where you can kiss both checks at the same time, with one kiss!

KOOLAID2 on December 19, 2011 at 6:40 PM

Speakeasies also were important sites for interracial interaction, as well as being some of the nation’s first gay bars in cities like New York and Chicago. Prohibition brought Tequila into our lives, and I remain thankful. But for all of that it failed, just as drug prohibition has failed.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:35 PM

Oh, dear. That is a flat out bald faced lie.

My great grandfather owned a speak easy in NYC and I still have his clock that hung on its wall. I have his diaries, I have his ledgers, I have his photographs.

For crying out loud, please stop trying to erase our history. You are failing, son. Stop being a failure. You are losing credibility on a blog that welcomes all.

Perhaps you’ve been lied to, or told falsehoods or something. I want to be kind to you. But if you dare to talk about what the Speaks were back in the day, and try to rearrange or change history you will fail.

Best regards.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:41 PM

My request, was for you to explain it to me in liberal terms. In your mind, what is the War on Drugs? What does it mean, in liberal’s minds?

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM

In my mind it is an incredibly unjust system of laws and policies that has had devastating consequences for individuals across the globe. The laws are unjust because they are built upon the idea that we can’t choose what should go into our bodies. The policies are devastating for a host of reasons, but I’ll just point to the fact that our jails house 1/4 of the world’s prison population.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:42 PM

In your world, is there any consequence to illegal behavior?

BigAlSouth on December 19, 2011 at 6:33 PM

In the Parallel Universe of the Leftist Democrat, it depends on the nature of the illegal behavior.

Remember, most of them said that Bill Clinton did not commit Felony Perjury before a Federal Grand Jury, because all he did was Lie About Sex.

Their “defense” for the First Elected President to ever be Impeached was then to redefine that word, along with the word “is”, to fit their own narrow view.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:41 PM

Not every speakeasy was a “black and tan” and not everyone was a gay bar. But some were, thats pretty well documented….

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Because we actually live in a society where “justice” is based upon income, rather than an equal assessment of what happens. Your “committee rules” society is only a hypothetical. I’d suggest that by limiting the jurisdiction of the criminal justice to crimes that actually harm another individual it brings us closer to the “blind justice” ideal.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Oh, My, God.

Wow.

This is what Public Edumacation produces.

Poor baby. Good luck to you, best regards,

I’m done.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:45 PM

Actually what Holder meant is that the racist Boosh Administration is the basis for his problems. Just like the racist Boosh Administration is the basis for Zero’s problems. The Boosh’s and their racist supporters have caused nothing but insurmountable problems for all people of color (in the government) in this country. Racism is rampant in this country, just ask anyone in Zero’s administration. Damn Boosh racists

There, I said what needed to be said.

NOMOBO on December 19, 2011 at 6:46 PM

Not every speakeasy was a “black and tan” and not everyone was a gay bar. But some were, thats pretty well documented….

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Tell me son, what is a Black and Tan… in beer terms?

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:47 PM

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:41 PM

Not every speakeasy was a “black and tan” and not everyone was a gay bar. But some were, thats pretty well documented….

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Key West Reader is citing personal family experience.

What are you basing your “knowledge” of speakeasies on? What you were taught in college?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:48 PM

Tell me son, what is a Black and Tan… in beer terms?

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 6:47 PM

A dark, choclaty stout, like a Guiness. Is this beer quiz now?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:49 PM

THings just got real. LOL.

tom daschle concerned on December 19, 2011 at 6:51 PM

Colonel West: kicking a$$ and taking names.

WordsMatter on December 19, 2011 at 6:52 PM

Key West Reader is citing personal family experience.

What are you basing your “knowledge” of speakeasies on? What you were taught in college?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:48 PM

Key West Reader is citing his knowledge of the one speakeasy his relative owned. Considering there were thousands of speakeasies all over the United States I’m not sure his sample is enough to say that all speakeasies were just like the one his relative owned. Is it somehow besmirching his honor to point out that many speakeasies were sites of interracial socializing, what on earth do you think “slumming” in Harlem, Greenwich Village or Bronzeville was about? I guess its liberal elitism to read a book or something.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:53 PM

Of course, but why are illegal drugs illegal in the first place?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Uhhhh, cause they (drugs) are addictive and profoundly destructive. Please re-read my post.

Also, your argument that the legal system favors those with money for lawyers is quite specious. I know lots of white guys who had good lawyers and still got mandatory minimum ten year prison sentences under the Federal Sentencing Guidelines. (Just as much time as their conspirators of color.)

BigAlSouth on December 19, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Competence doesn’t even enter into the equation in affirmative action. In fact, race is what it’s all about. Holder was an affirmative action appointment by Clinton and is a “brother in the hood” appointment by Obama. Obama and Holder, two affirmative action peas in a pod.

they lie on December 19, 2011 at 6:55 PM

Yes we all know that, in this case, sentencing and prosecution was harsh because of the scandal. But if you’re really familiar with the Dallas CJS (and CJS’ around the country) you also know that economic class and a good lawyer has a major impact on your outcome. The point is that none of these non-crimes should be prosecuted.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Wow the spin machine is in 10th gear. Really?

-

Do you realize I have called you out as a racist? You do realize what your silence says right?

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:56 PM

Seriously? That’s a grammar error, I meant that the War On Drugs is only harmful. Not that it is exclusively harmful to Americans.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM

Isn’t the “grammar error” the fail safe excuse for all of these lib trolls that come on here, when they get called out for contradicting themselves? What they should be saying is “I lost my talking points between the first and second post, so I can’t remember what I was spewing earlier.”

Moose Drool on December 19, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Yes you did.

Failing to understand that the war on drugs is a failure that only hurts Americans is an example of leaving ones “ability to think at home.”

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Actually, if read properly, the sentence is correct and does not imply that the war on (some) drugs is a failure that hurts only Americans. It states quite simply that the war on (some) drugs is a failure that only hurts, rather than helps Americans. Whatever.

Back on topic, I can’t speak for anyone else here, but the Cain candidacy sent me on quite a tear of reading of material by black (conservative ) American writers lately. I just finished reading “Up From Slavery” by Booker T. Washington and am currently about halfway through “Narrative” by Frederick Douglass, and I can say unequivocally that these two men would side with Allen West in denouncing Eric withHolder’s fallback on the so-called race card. These were real men with really big problems who really did something about it, and in a most honorable way. Really.

Flotsam Jetsome on December 19, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Uhhhh, cause they (drugs) are addictive and profoundly destructive. Please re-read my post.

BigAlSouth on December 19, 2011 at 6:54 PM

I noticed that I already noted that drugs are destructive and libfreeonyou simply ignored. I don’t think it really cares.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Uhhhh, cause they (drugs) are addictive and profoundly destructive. Please re-read my post.

So is alcohol, unless everyone sitting in an AA meeting right now is lying to themselves about their disease. And what about those individuals who were killed in drunk driving accidents, or people who were assaulted by drunk people. All figments of our imagination?

I know lots of white guys who had good lawyers and still got mandatory minimum ten year prison sentences under the Federal Sentencing Guidelines. (Just as much time as their conspirators of color.)

BigAlSouth on December 19, 2011 at 6:54 PM

When you say “lots” how many do you mean. Like, 50? I would never doubt your experience, but there’s quite a bit more data to back up the claim that economic class plays a significant role in CJS outcomes.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:59 PM

What they should be saying is “I lost my talking points between the first and second post, so I can’t remember what I was spewing earlier.”

Moose Drool on December 19, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Ahhh I see you have read some of Crr’s work.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 7:00 PM

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:53 PM

Sweet pea, you are SO misinformed.

This is the reason that you will not like the outcome of the 2012 elections. In the end, you’ll accept the fact that there are older and wiser Americans looking out for you and our Nation.

In the interim, I would suggest that you consult resources of information that are not associated with Wikipedia.

In 2012, Americans will choose between Socialism/Marxism or Freedom. I would respectfully suggest that you and yours choose Freedom.

Best regards.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 7:01 PM

So is alcohol, unless everyone sitting in an AA meeting right now is lying to themselves about their disease. And what about those individuals who were killed in drunk driving accidents, or people who were assaulted by drunk people. All figments of our imagination?

Uh LibFreeonEveryoneElse as I stated you seem to be arguing for alcohol prohibition. You’re pretty dense . You realize that right?

CW on December 19, 2011 at 7:01 PM

This very simply needs to be made into a political ad and run right before the election to illustrate what “White guilt” in the voting booth leads to.

famous amos on December 19, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Do you realize I have called you out as a racist? You do realize what your silence says right?

CW on December 19, 2011 at 6:56 PM

It means I’m ignoring your claim that I am a racist. When you’ve established that the criteria for racism is acknowledging that race exists well then I’m not so sure who *isn’t* a racist in your worldview.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:02 PM

What are you basing your “knowledge” of speakeasies on? What you were taught in college?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 6:48 PM

Key West Reader is citing his knowledge of the one speakeasy his relative owned. Considering there were thousands of speakeasies all over the United States I’m not sure his sample is enough to say that all speakeasies were just like the one his relative owned. Is it somehow besmirching his honor to point out that many speakeasies were sites of interracial socializing, what on earth do you think “slumming” in Harlem, Greenwich Village or Bronzeville was about? I guess its liberal elitism to read a book or something.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 6:53 PM

OK, Students, notice how the Subject gives a rambling, long-winded “response” that never actually answers my question? Not until the very last sentence does it admit that book learning is superior to personal family experience.

So did you learn about Speakeasies from “a book”? Or “many books”?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 7:04 PM

Uh LibFreeonEveryoneElse as I stated you seem to be arguing for alcohol prohibition. You’re pretty dense . You realize that right?

CW on December 19, 2011 at 7:01 PM

No, I’m not. I’m using the example of alcohol to demonstrate that our drug laws are hypocritical. I think that neither alcohol or drugs should be illegal. If you want to make a case for bringing us back to Prohibition, go ahead. That’s not my position. But its sort of cute how you want us to be BFFs on this matter. Hairbraiding party later?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:04 PM

I sorta liked Hot Air better when it served as a solid resource for conservative ideals, confirmed resources and solid sources of information. Not as a dumpster for liberal trash commentary.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 7:05 PM

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:04 PM

OH MY.

You just picked a fight that you won’t win. Good luck.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 7:06 PM

I sorta liked Hot Air better when it served as a solid resource for conservative ideals, confirmed resources and solid sources of information. Not as a dumpster for liberal trash commentary.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Well remember, we’ve had 2 Open Registrations here in the past month, after not having any for 2 years. Some of the sh*t will settle to the bottom eventually.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 7:07 PM

So did you learn about Speakeasies from “a book”? Or “many books”?

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 7:04 PM

Your question was a lead in for an argument that personal experience trumps “book learnin” (sometimes true, sometimes not). And I guess we’ve moved from beer quiz to book quiz. I’ve read a few books on the Prohibition Era, Chad Heaps book just called Slumming was really good. Also Ken Burns Prohibition documentary is instructive on these points.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Out.

I have to tend to my Better days.

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 7:10 PM

west turned his back on conservatives. he’s voted for pigford and the debt ceiling. he’s in the pocket of the elites.

they are using him like chum against the democrats.

renalin on December 19, 2011 at 7:10 PM

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 7:10 PM

See ya at the Shoe drop! Though Duval won’t be the same without the Piano Keys bar.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:11 PM

It means I’m ignoring your claim that I am a racist. When you’ve established that the criteria for racism is acknowledging that race exists well then I’m not so sure who *isn’t* a racist in your worldview.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:02 PM

As it is obvious that when it comes to comprehension you are simply a poser I will assist you further. When a person, such as yourself, states that someone by their color should think or act a certain way that is racism. No simple one that is not an all inclusive definition.Yes you are a racist and your silence while you tried to find a way to spin indicates you know it.

Hairbraiding party later?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:04 PM

I see I hit a nerve. Thanks. I enjoy bothering liars and racists. It makes me all warm and tingly.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 7:12 PM

Also Ken Burns Prohibition documentary is instructive on these points.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Lib Speak

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 7:14 PM

When a person, such as yourself, states that someone by their color should think or act a certain way that is racism.

So does that mean Glenn Beck is racist when he says that there is a “white culture.” Or is there no such thing as “culture” in your world either?

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:15 PM

See ya at the Shoe drop! Though Duval won’t be the same without the Piano Keys bar.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:11 PM

L.O.L.

I recommend that you go to the Bibbity Bobbity Boo Bar.

/newb

Key West Reader on December 19, 2011 at 7:16 PM

After all, that he can provide no explanation as to how he came to preside — with or without knowledge — over an operation that resulted in the deaths of the United States Justice Department…

FIFY

BacaDog on December 19, 2011 at 7:16 PM

Well remember, we’ve had 2 Open Registrations here in the past month, after not having any for 2 years. Some of the sh*t will settle to the bottom eventually.

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 7:07 PM

It’s like that, is it?

Flotsam Jetsome on December 19, 2011 at 7:17 PM

west turned his back on conservatives. he’s voted for pigford and the debt ceiling. he’s in the pocket of the elites.

they are using him like chum against the democrats.

renalin on December 19, 2011 at 7:10 PM

And what, exactly, does that have to do with his calling out Holder for being a race-baiter?

BacaDog on December 19, 2011 at 7:19 PM

And what, exactly, does that have to do with his calling out Holder for being a race-baiter?

BacaDog on December 19, 2011 at 7:19 PM

For my money Colonel West’s endorsement of the Pigford deal and his criticism of Holder indicates that he understands that racism exists and needs to be rectified, but he finds it offensive when the Attorney General whines “racism.” And on that he and I agree. =

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:20 PM

Ahhh I see you have read some of Crr’s work.

CW on December 19, 2011 at 7:00 PM

Yeah, for quite a while. I was actually looking forward to doing some internet sparring with her, but she seems to have disappeared. She’ll probably come back next year and say she was busy with finals, or something. Actually, I think she’s tired of getting her ass handed to her on a daily basis around here.

Moose Drool on December 19, 2011 at 7:23 PM

west turned his back on conservatives. he’s voted for pigford and the debt ceiling. he’s in the pocket of the elites.

they are using him like chum against the democrats.

renalin on December 19, 2011 at 7:10 PM

We have a winner!!!!

I called West’s congressional office when he was going to vote for raising the debt ceiling. I informed his spokesperson that I had contributed to West’s campaign and had worked for his election and was not happy with West’s vote. I was told he was doing so because if the debt ceiling was not raised the government would default on its interest payments. I told his spokesperson that that was not true that the government took in more than enough money each day to make interest payments on the debt and that West should be supporting the balanced budget amendment. His spokesperson became rude and hung up on me. If West was on fire, I wouldn’t urinate on him to help put out the fire.

they lie on December 19, 2011 at 7:24 PM

Also Ken Burns Prohibition documentary is instructive on these points.

libfreeordie on December 19, 2011 at 7:07 PM

LOL, Burns and I go way back.

Back in the late 1970s some friends and I were sitting in the bleachers at Fenway Park in Boston. We’d gotten there very early and the stands were still pretty empty. All of a sudden this skinny dude with another skinny dude with a fat camera show up in front of us. Ken told us he was making a film about the Statue of Liberty (which would not come out until 1985) and wondered what our thoughts were. They then filmed us. We of course ended up on the cutting room floor.

Ken lives and makes his films here in New Hampshire, along the Connecticut River Valley in Walpole. Ironically, the town he lives in is less than 50 miles down the same valley from “Ice Station EIB”, aka the home of Mark Steyn.

Anyway, getting back to the current: you do know that Burns is as Far Left as you are, don’t you? He has a decidedly Leftist Agenda, especially since his stuff is on PBS.

Re “Prohibition”:

KEN BURNS: This is a story of single-issue campaigns that metasasize into horrible unintended consequences – the demonization of immigrants, smear campaigns and the loss of a civil discourse, and a whole group of people who feel –

STEPHEN COLBERT: but wait a second, how could be possibly understand a political system like that?

BURNS: Yeah (laughs), but wait! It gets even better! There’s more, you know. There’s a whole group of people who feel they’ve lost control of their country, and want to take it back. Do you know Ecclesiastes 1:9?

COLBERT: Of course.

BURNS: There is nothing new under the sun. This is – today.

As NewsBusters’ Tim Graham noted:

This came right after Burns insisted Prohibition was favored by a broad coalition of strange bedfellows; the KKK and the NAACP, the radical socialist Wobblies and the capitalist barons. How is that like today?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2011/10/01/pbs-star-ken-burns-insists-prohibition-era-just-today-racist-immigration#ixzz1h1wiS0U1

Del Dolemonte on December 19, 2011 at 7:28 PM

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