Oh my: Ron Paul within one point of Gingrich in Iowa?

posted at 3:56 pm on December 13, 2011 by Allahpundit

Hey now. I was writing “Could Ron Paul seriously win Iowa?” posts before writing “Could Ron Paul seriously win Iowa?” posts was cool.

There has been some major movement in the Republican Presidential race in Iowa over the last week, with what was a 9 point lead for Newt Gingrich now all the way down to a single point. Gingrich is at 22% to 21% for Paul with Mitt Romney at 16%, Michele Bachmann at 11%, Rick Perry at 9%, Rick Santorum at 8%, Jon Huntsman at 5%, and Gary Johnson at 1%.

Gingrich has dropped 5 points in the last week and he’s also seen a significant decline in his favorability numbers. Last week he was at +31 (62/31) and he’s now dropped 19 points to +12 (52/40). The attacks on him appear to be taking a heavy toll- his support with Tea Party voters has declined from 35% to 24%.

Paul meanwhile has seen a big increase in his popularity from +14 (52/38) to +30 (61/31). There are a lot of parallels between Paul’s strength in Iowa and Barack Obama’s in 2008- he’s doing well with new voters, young voters, and non-Republican voters…

Simple question: What’s Paul’s ceiling in Iowa? A friend on Twitter was arguing earlier that it’s 20 percent, which is borne out by the polls — so far. If he’s right then Paul can’t win. But … what if Paul’s ceiling is actually 30 percent? Note that his favorables are trending upwards while Newt’s are sinking under the weight of renewed scrutiny of his various conservative heresies. If you’re an Iowan who’s unhappy with the “electable” candidates — Romney for being too opportunistic, Gingrich for flirting too often with activist government, Perry for seeming too darned hapless — then Paul’s an obvious choice for your “none of the above” protest vote. So obvious, in fact, that both Glenn Beck and Joe Scarborough are threatening to back him as a third-party candidate if Gingrich is the nominee. (An interesting footnote in the PPP data: Voters split equally on whether their view of the GOP establishment is favorable or unfavorable, and among the latter group Paul leads by double digits at 34 percent.) If he can pull 10 percent from voters like that on top of the 20 percent who make up his base, then his chances at an upset improve dramatically. And don’t forget, not only is Paul’s base famously enthusiastic and guaranteed to turn out, he’s one of the best organized candidates in Iowa this time. He might be able to get leaners to come out and caucus come rain or shine. Can Gingrich do the same?

I’ll bet Romney’s kicking himself now for not having abandoned Iowa early on. If he had done that, he could have sent his supporters out to caucus for Paul, thereby detonating Newt’s chances; if he tried that now, having competed in earnest in the state, the headlines would be all about Romney’s shockingly poor finish in Iowa, which would actually help Gingrich in New Hampshire even if he finished second to Paul in the caucuses. (On the other hand, per Rasmussen, Paul’s just four points back of Gingrich for second place in New Hampshire too.) Two exit questions for you, then. One: As chances of a Paul upset grow, will Iowa’s Republican leaders swing behind Newt or Mitt? They want the caucuses to remain relevant to choosing the eventual nominee, and if Paul wins, that’ll be two elections in a row where the Iowa winner realistically had no chance. Two: Could a Paul victory achieve a real “none of the above” outcome for the nomination? A brokered convention is unlikely – but, as Sean Trende explains, not impossible if Paul fares well.

Caucus states are also concentrated in the Mountain West, where his brand of Republicanism holds greater appeal. They’re also front-loaded, meaning that (a) his supporters will be less likely to have been swayed by the “can’t win” argument and (b) the more “establishment” Republican candidates are likely to split the non-Paul votes.

Overall, 486 delegates will be awarded in caucus states. If Paul picks off a sizable number of these delegates, say a quarter of them, and two other GOP candidates battle to a draw, there might not be a nominee by the end of June. This type of fight could carry over to the convention, since Paul is pretty feisty and is probably the least likely candidate out there to be “bought off” with a Cabinet position or speaking slot.

If, say, Perry and Gingrich are knotted up with about 1,050 delegates each, and Paul holds the remaining 200 and refuses to budge, you could end up with a deadlocked convention that eventually turns to a dark-horse candidate.

Ron Paul winning Iowa just might mean the GOP nominating Ryan, Christie, or Daniels. Second look at Ron Paul winning Iowa?

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Logboy, It’s been a while since I’ve seen any of your posts here on Hot Air, but your comments on this thread were on fire for the truth buddy. Great, great content to your posts.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 5:42 AM

Two exit questions for you, then. One: As chances of a Paul upset grow, will Iowa’s Republican leaders swing behind Newt or Mitt? They want the caucuses to remain relevant to choosing the eventual nominee, and if Paul wins, that’ll be two elections in a row where the Iowa winner realistically had no chance.

Paul might stand a better chance if every media outlet didn’t claim he realistically has no chance. In the media, the center-right treats the right the same as the left treats the center.

Trashfactor on December 14, 2011 at 5:53 AM

Ron Paul is an unelectable idiot. His foreign policy ideas are absolutely seditious and naive at the same time. His only following comes from the potheads who enjoy his “libertarian” views on drugs. I don’t care what happens in Iowa because the state does not reflect national views. All it means is that Iowa is filled with “activist” potheads.

Happy Nomad on December 14, 2011 at 7:29 AM

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 12:08 AM

Listen you ‘know it all’ who in reality cannot see he comes off as a total dbag.. The military assistance that comes to Israel from the USA represents less than 2% of Israel’s economy. It helps Israel who is one of the most threatened countries on earth maintain a technological/military advantage in the region.

Israel spends itself, per capita more money that any country on earth on defense, many times more than the US military aid it receives. You try to make it seem like Israel is living on handouts, but in reality you are an ignoramus and a fool who hides his never ending bile and animosity, but it always ends up rearing its head.

You want to cut the military aid? You live in a democracy, stop flapping your gums all day long and get it passed in the house and the senate, but good luck, because the vast majority of Americans aren’t little wanker men like you, and realize the value of that military aid to Israel, 78% of it which must be spent by law in America, with American companies.

You’re always so bitter, so ugly here, day after day. I’m not sure if it’s because you have hitched your wagon to a perrenial loser like Ron Paul, or if it is because you yourself are a perennial loser. Have a nice day.

saus on December 14, 2011 at 7:35 AM

You, Ron Paul, and everyone who supports him can GFY. You did not serve. YOu did not deploy. And you do not know anything about what we did in Iraq.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 5:24 AM

Classy post. Let me enlighten you, you ignorant POS. I DID in fact serve, along with many other Paul supporters. And I DID in fact deploy. So get off your high-horse, you elitist scumbag. Unlike the neanderthal types like yourself who just want to “go out and kill some Hajji” we’ve taken the time to actually try and look beyond just what the govt tells us. If they’ve got an “R” after their name I’ve no doubt you buy into their B.S. hook, line, and sinker. And then you’re dumbfounded when you try and figure out why you’re not winning hearts and minds.

Currently, I work on a military base in a civilian capacity with many current military. I can tell you anecdotally that there is a lot of support amongst the military population for Paul’s ideas. These are people who have exerienced first-hand the damage that America’s hegemonic foreign policy has caused. Of course, there are always going to be the knuckle-draggers like hawk who see it as an opportunity to “kill some towel heads”. But, luckily, their numbers are dwindling.

So, hawk,on behalf of all rational-thinking military who believe that America should only go to war as a last resort and only use it when America is directly being threatened, I say this to you: GFY!!

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 7:43 AM

No, I won’t vote for Obama. But I won’t vote for Paul either. And there are millions of us out here who won’t.

Ron Paul will never be the president. Get used to that fact now and you’ll not be so heartbroken after you’ve helped to reelect Obama.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 5:36 AM

Cool. I won’t vote for Obama. But, I won’t vote for Newt Romney either. And there are many of us who won’t as well. So, by giving us an unelectable Neo-Con it is YOU who will be ensuring four more years of Obama.

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 7:49 AM

So, hawk,on behalf of all rational-thinking military who believe that America should only go to war as a last resort and only use it when America is directly being threatened, I say this to you: GFY!!

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 7:43 AM

Yeah.

That’s gonna leave a mark.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 7:51 AM

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 7:49 AM

America will not elect a cranky, old isolationist. End of story. Hawkdriver is a good friend and a great patriot. Thank you for your service, but you need to switch to decaf.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 7:53 AM

No, I won’t vote for Obama. But I won’t vote for Paul either. And there are millions of us out here who won’t.

Ron Paul will never be the president. Get used to that fact now and you’ll not be so heartbroken after you’ve helped to reelect Obama.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 5:36 AM

Well, HD, I can tell you that I will vote for the GOP nominee, whoever it is, even that slimy piece of worm excrement Newt Gingrich.

That said, there are millions of Ron Paul supporters out there who are rallying around the cry “Nobody but Paul”. I’d very much like to bring them on board to the GOP if, God forgive me, Ron Paul should not get the nomination.

But with “conservatives” like you running around there refusing to back Ron Paul as the GOP nominee, I am hardly inclined to do so. In fact, I would say with attitudes like yours, I am tempted to encourage them to act out their political hearts’ desire. That way, when the GOP crashes and burns, and you are here whining about four more years of Obama, I can at least take pleasure in laughing my ass off while telling you “I told you so”, while packing up my money to head offshore until after the collapse.

Good luck with your pension though, sweetheart.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:02 AM

The military assistance that comes to Israel from the USA represents less than 2% of Israel’s economy.

saus on December 14, 2011 at 7:35 AM

You mean that the Knessent isn’t voting to wipe out 2% of the Israeli economy overnight?

Once again, I’m shocked.

As I say, I guess we now know the price of Israeli sovereignty.

2% of their economy.

Boy, I bet for 5%, I could get them to sell me their integrity.

Naw… I bet I could get it cheaper than that.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:05 AM

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 7:43 AM

Call me suspect of someone using the NEOCON tag and claiming to have been deployed. I take it you’re not bothered by Ron Paul’s “Imagine” rant?

Yeah.

That’s gonna leave a mark.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 7:51 AM

Not by a long shot.

Well, HD, I can tell you that I will vote for the GOP nominee, whoever it is, even that slimy piece of worm excrement Newt Gingrich.

Your right. Vote, or don’t vote for whomever you want, you military hating zealot.

That said, there are millions of Ron Paul supporters out there who are rallying around the cry “Nobody but Paul”. I’d very much like to bring them on board to the GOP if, God forgive me, Ron Paul should not get the nomination.

Their right. And Paul will not get the nomination.

But with “conservatives” like you running around there refusing to back Ron Paul as the GOP nominee, I am hardly inclined to do so.

With an “Patriot” like you, I can imagine.

In fact, I would say with attitudes like yours, I am tempted to encourage them to act out their political hearts’ desire. That way, when the GOP crashes and burns, and you are here whining about four more years of Obama, I can at least take pleasure in laughing my ass off while telling you “I told you so”, while packing up my money to head offshore until after the collapse.

I’m not a Republican.

Good luck with your pension though, sweetheart.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:02 AM

I’m set. Good luck with yours.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:09 AM

Ron Paul is an unelectable idiot. His foreign policy ideas are absolutely seditious and naive at the same time. His only following comes from the potheads who enjoy his “libertarian” views on drugs. I don’t care what happens in Iowa because the state does not reflect national views. All it means is that Iowa is filled with “activist” potheads.

Happy Nomad on December 14, 2011 at 7:29 AM

His foreign policy views mirror those of Paine, Washington, Jefferson, and the majority of the Founders. If you could set aside your love for big, centralized federal government, you’d see that Paul believes that drug laws are a 10th Amendment issue; that is, they are up to the states, not D.C.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:12 AM

America will not elect a cranky, old isolationist. End of story. Hawkdriver is a good friend and a great patriot. Thank you for your service, but you need to switch to decaf.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 7:53 AM

Cool. America will not elect a cranky, old interventionist like Newt either. End of story.

I appreciate your friendship with hawk, but not only is he completely wrong on the issues, but he assumes (and we all know what happens when one assumes) that nobody else has served and tells us all to “GFY”. If someone, like say a spirito, types out a well-reasoned, classy post, even though I disagree with him I’ll respond in a well-reasoned and polite manner. Since your friend hawk decided to come out with an insulting, ignorant post, he needed to be blasted.

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 8:12 AM

Imagine

by Ron Paul |

Imagine for a moment that somewhere in the middle of Texas there was a large foreign military base, say Chinese or Russian. Imagine that thousands of armed foreign troops were constantly patrolling American streets in military vehicles. Imagine they were here under the auspices of “keeping us safe” or “promoting democracy” or “protecting their strategic interests.”

Imagine that they operated outside of US law, and that the Constitution did not apply to them. Imagine that every now and then they made mistakes or acted on bad information and accidentally killed or terrorized innocent Americans, including women and children, most of the time with little to no repercussions or consequences. Imagine that they set up check points on our soil and routinely searched and ransacked entire neighborhoods of homes. Imagine if Americans were fearful of these foreign troops, and overwhelmingly thought America would be better off without their presence.

Imagine if some Americans were so angry about them being in Texas that they actually joined together to fight them off, in defense of our soil and sovereignty, because leadership in government refused or were unable to do so. Imagine that those Americans were labeled terrorists or insurgents for their defensive actions, and routinely killed, or captured and tortured by the foreign troops on our land. Imagine that the occupiers’ attitude was that if they just killed enough Americans, the resistance would stop, but instead, for every American killed, ten more would take up arms against them, resulting in perpetual bloodshed. Imagine if most of the citizens of the foreign land also wanted these troops to return home. Imagine if they elected a leader who promised to bring them home and put an end to this horror.

Imagine if that leader changed his mind once he took office.

The reality is that our military presence on foreign soil is as offensive to the people that live there as armed Chinese troops would be if they were stationed in Texas. We would not stand for it here, but we have had a globe straddling empire and a very intrusive foreign policy for decades that incites a lot of hatred and resentment towards us.

According to our own CIA, our meddling in the Middle East was the prime motivation for the horrific attacks on 9/11. But instead of re-evaluating our foreign policy, we have simply escalated it. We had a right to go after those responsible for 9/11, to be sure, but why do so many Americans feel as if we have a right to a military presence in some 160 countries when we wouldn’t stand for even one foreign base on our soil, for any reason? These are not embassies, mind you, these are military installations. The new administration is not materially changing anything about this. Shuffling troops around and playing with semantics does not accomplish the goals of the American people, who simply want our men and women to come home. 50,000 troops left behind in Iraq is not conducive to peace any more than 50,000 Russian soldiers would be in the United States.

Shutting down military bases and ceasing to deal with other nations with threats and violence is not isolationism. It is the opposite. Opening ourselves up to friendship, honest trade and diplomacy is the foreign policy of peace and prosperity. It is the only foreign policy that will not bankrupt us in short order, as our current actions most definitely will. I share the disappointment of the American people in the foreign policy rhetoric coming from the administration. The sad thing is, our foreign policy WILL change eventually, as Rome’s did, when all budgetary and monetary tricks to fund it are exhausted.

RobbBond, I’m not sure who you tortured, terrorized or murdered when you were deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, but I didn’t do any of these things Paul claims we did. If you agree with Paul, have you thought about turning yourself in to the authorities?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM

Call me suspect of someone using the NEOCON tag and claiming to have been deployed.

Be suspect all you want. I really don’t give a damn if you believe me or not since I have no respect for you or the ignorant, narrow-minded attitude you present in these threads.

Anyway, I’m off to work.

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 8:18 AM

Since your friend hawk decided to come out with an insulting, ignorant post, he needed to be blasted.

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 8:12 AM

You’re not doing a very good job of it.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:19 AM

I’m set. Good luck with yours.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:09 AM

Keep my money in gold, thanks.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:19 AM

Anyway, I’m off to work.

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 8:18 AM

Oh, working for the evil military industrial complex? Paul would not be happy with you.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:20 AM

I’m not a Republican.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:09 AM

Damn right you’re not, with a big or small “r”.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:21 AM

Keep my money in gold, thanks.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:19 AM</blockquote

What does it taste like? Thanks.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:21 AM

Damn right you’re not, with a big or small “r”.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:21 AM

I’m not a Republican. Upper or lower case adds no extra meaning to my comment.

Will not vote for Paul. I work with officers and soldiers every day and I point out his Imagine screed every time I get a chance.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:23 AM

RobbBond, I’m not sure who you tortured, terrorized or murdered when you were deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, but I didn’t do any of these things Paul claims we did. If you agree with Paul, have you thought about turning yourself in to the authorities?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM

Nah, I didn’t witness any of that. And, even though you’ve proven yourself to be an dunce, I’ll take your word for it that you’ve not done such a thing.

However, I don’t agree with the central premise of why we went into Iraq or why we’re still in Afghanistan. Clearly, you do. That’s fine. You’re allowed to be wrong in this country. Or wait, do we still have that right? Or have Obama and the neo-cons taken it away yet?

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 8:24 AM

And Paul will not get the nomination.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:09 AM

Yeah. I think I’ll listen to actual “Republicans” for advice on who is going to be our nominee. If I wanted a non-Republican’s thoughts on the matter, I’d ask Al Sharpton. He’d give me a more “republican” (note the small “r”), not to mention reasoned, response than you have so far.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:25 AM

RobbBond, I’m not sure who you tortured, terrorized or murdered when you were deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, but I didn’t do any of these things Paul claims we did. If you agree with Paul, have you thought about turning yourself in to the authorities?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM

Hmmm.

So, by your “logic”, because a few people at Enron committed fraud (and they did, just like a few rogues in Iraq committed torture and murder), we should be arresting anyone who worked for Enron while the fraud was being committed.

Seek help, HD. You’re slipping. I’m sure the VA has many fine services available for you.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:27 AM

Nah, I didn’t witness any of that. And, even though you’ve proven yourself to be an dunce, I’ll take your word for it that you’ve not done such a thing.

Paul says we did. But you support him.

However, I don’t agree with the central premise of why we went into Iraq or why we’re still in Afghanistan.

While you were deployed not believing in the war, I sure would have hated to have you on my team. Please tell me you were in a support battalion.

Clearly, you do.

It’s clear to most who have actually been there.

That’s fine. You’re allowed to be wrong in this country.

So, you do agree with paul that you’re a war criminal? make up your mind.

Or wait, do we still have that right? Or have Obama and the neo-cons taken it away yet?

Again with the NEOCON crap.

RobbBond on December 14, 2011 at 8:24 AM

How long did you serve with that anti-military attitude and what in God’s good name was your MOS?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:31 AM

Imagine

by Ron Paul

RobbBond, I’m not sure who you tortured, terrorized or murdered when you were deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, but I didn’t do any of these things Paul claims we did. If you agree with Paul, have you thought about turning yourself in to the authorities?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM

How could any rational person disagree or take issue with any of what Paul wrote?

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM

Seek help, HD. You’re slipping. I’m sure the VA has many fine services available for you.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:27 AM

You’re the one who can’t keep your thoughts straight. Who said anything about ERON? I’m talking about Ron Paul’s anti-military rant in his “Imgine” speech and your editing of it to make it say exactly what I’ve always contented he meant by it.

I’m not sure what avenue is available to you without the VA, but maybe you should take your own advice?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:36 AM

I work with officers and soldiers every day and I point out his Imagine screed every time I get a chance.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:23 AM

And I deal with veterans all the time in and around Dr. Paul’s various campaigns who came to the campaigns because of what is known around the campfire as the “Imagine” speech. And they feel bad for you that you have been duped by a political philosophy that has misused all of you so badly, and been so willing to lie about it.

So please, go ahead and spread word of the “Imagine” speech to all your comrades, and all your cohort.

You are doing me, Dr Paul, and America a favor.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:36 AM

His foreign policy views mirror those of Paine, Washington, Jefferson, and the majority of the Founders. If you could set aside your love for big, centralized federal government, you’d see that Paul believes that drug laws are a 10th Amendment issue; that is, they are up to the states, not D.C.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:12 AM

Oh please! Ron Paul is an idiot who enjoys the support of potheads. To liken his views to those of the founding fathers is patently absurd and ridiculous.

Happy Nomad on December 14, 2011 at 8:37 AM

How could any rational person disagree or take issue with any of what Paul wrote?

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM

Really, any rational person who deployed and didn’t do any of those things that Paul contents we did in that rant. But, I’m guessing you think your military did all those things too?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:38 AM

You are doing me, Dr Paul, and America a favor.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:36 AM

You wouldn’t think so if you see their reaction to it.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:39 AM

Who said anything about ERON? I’m talking about Ron Paul’s anti-military rant in his “Imgine” speech and your editing of it to make it say exactly what I’ve always contented he meant by it.

I’m not sure what avenue is available to you without the VA, but maybe you should take your own advice?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:36 AM

You said that since Dr. Paul said there was torture and murder going on in the war zones, then RobbBond should turn himself in to authorities as a witness. People allegedly witnessed the crimes committed at Enron, even though they were innocent. Should the innocent in an organization beat the weight of the guilty?

Of course not. But being a member of an organization – any organization, even the US military – shouldn’t mean you are above the law.

People who commit murder and torture, even in a war zone, should be prosecuted, even though their apologists in and out of uniform will try to avoid that particular justice being done.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:41 AM

You wouldn’t think so if you see their reaction to it.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:39 AM

Of course not. Until they walk in my door…

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:42 AM

Oh please! Ron Paul is an idiot who enjoys the support of potheads. To liken his views to those of the founding fathers is patently absurd and ridiculous.

Happy Nomad on December 14, 2011 at 8:37 AM

The Founding Fathers also enjoy (albeit posthumously) the support of potheads.

Does that now make their views ridiculous?

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:44 AM

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:41 AM

Wow, I didn’t know you Paul Supporters were so in tune to what he says that you can determine he was only talking about rouge miltary in his anti-military “Imagine” rant. To us normal people, sounds like he was generally talking about all of us.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:46 AM

rogue

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM

Really, any rational person who deployed and didn’t do any of those things that Paul contents we did in that rant. But, I’m guessing you think your military did all those things too?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:38 AM>

Do you think people weren’t terrorized by a foreign military presence and its operations? Do you think the military knocked on doors and asked politely if they could come in? Do you think you would be terrorized if in the middle of the night your door was kicked in and armed military personnel who spoke a foreign tongue rounded you and your family up while your house was trashed while being searched???

That doesn’t fall into the definition of terrorism or terrorist – but people were terrorized. I don’t care if you served or where you served, if you think that didn’t happen, you are naive.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:50 AM

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:05 AM

Speaking of integrity.. I was reading yesterday how Ron Paul stuffed his face on 157 million in earmarks in his district, and then I watched his small little supporters pitifully try to rationalize it here (both for themselves) and in the comical attempt to convince others how much ‘integrity’ he has.

Lucky for me, neither he, nor his whacked out ideas and blame America firsters have a shot in hell at winning, because it means the majority of USA will continue to remain steadfast allies with countries such as Israel, and us with the USA. We have full sovereignty btw, but it takes a real genius to not understand how countries might want to be allied with the most powerful country in the 20th century. You’re right, we’re all stupid here.

As for going to 5% by all means, a few of the GOP candidates already said they would like to up the military assistance and sharing w/ Israel. It pays off in spades for the USA. We are world leaders in drones, in missile defenses, in urban warfare, in reactive armor which we invented, and helped save the lives of thousands of US servicemen and women in their armored vehicles this past 6 years. American pilots can now simply look at a target through their helmet sites, and their fighter will automatically lock and fire on their ennemy. That’s technology made in Israel. If you knew even 1/10th of what you THINK you do, you’d know that too.

BTW Hawkdriver has been here for eons, he’s beloved here on this board and your sorry frankly shameful comments to him and many others are a nice reflection of exacly what the avg Paul supporter comes off as, an unhinged lunatic.

saus on December 14, 2011 at 8:50 AM

Wow, I didn’t know you Paul Supporters were so in tune to what he says that you can determine he was only talking about rouge miltary in his anti-military “Imagine” rant. To us normal people, sounds like he was generally talking about all of us.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:46 AM

There was nothing in his piece, which you incorrectly and deliberately label a rant, that is anti-military. Nothing.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:52 AM

but it takes a real genius to not understand how countries might want to be allied with the most powerful country in the 20th century. You’re right, we’re all stupid here.

Most of us here are smart enough to recognize that being the most powerful country in the 20th century is different than being the most powerful nation in the 21st century.

We’re also smart enough to see how carrying over 100% of our GDP in debt will be the difference between the two.

Or at least I like to think we’re that smart.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:54 AM

Wow, I didn’t know you Paul Supporters were so in tune to what he says that you can determine he was only talking about rouge miltary in his anti-military “Imagine” rant. To us normal people, sounds like he was generally talking about all of us.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:46 AM

There was nothing in his piece, which you incorrectly and deliberately label a rant, that is anti-military. Nothing.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:52 AM

So is it paranoia, or evidence of a guilty mind?

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:55 AM

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:50 AM

I sure have been involved in delivering soldier to compounds of bomb makers in the wee hours to bust into their “homes” to either kill or capture them, take the HME and devices used to make IEDs. That protected our soldiers on MSRs from said devices. Doesn’t make me feel like a terrorist at all. It makes me feel like someone who was involved in efforts to protect his fellow Americans involved in an approved war. Sorry, you and Doc Paul feel that way.

Do you even understand the context of the actions you’re addressing?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:57 AM

saus on December 14, 2011 at 8:50 AM

You aren’t an American citizen.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:02 AM

There was nothing in his piece, which you incorrectly and deliberately label a rant, that is anti-military. Nothing.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 8:52 AM
So is it paranoia, or evidence of a guilty mind?

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:55 AM

Oh please John could you be more disingenuous, you even editted it for context in what you thought it meant. You told me in one thread, yep, you believed it all and then here (I guess because Dante says so) you say he doesn’t say it at all?

I guess Paulbots do just say anything to support him.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:02 AM

We are world leaders in drones, in missile defenses, in urban warfare, in reactive armor which we invented, and helped save the lives of thousands of US servicemen and women in their armored vehicles this past 6 years. American pilots can now simply look at a target through their helmet sites, and their fighter will automatically lock and fire on their ennemy. That’s technology made in Israel. If you knew even 1/10th of what you THINK you do, you’d know that too.

saus on December 14, 2011 at 8:50 AM

I don’t deny that the Israeli arms industry and intelligence services have some chops. There’s no denying that.

And I have no problem either with Israel being our friend, or our diplomatic partner, nor allowing them access to US weapons technology. I would hope that would be reciprocated.

But, as with many things, we can turn to the lessons we learned on the playground. Momma Galt taught me, among so many other things, that if you find yourself paying for a friendship, it isn’t really a friendship. Surely Momma saus taught you the same.

So, why is it that we are paying Israel? Friends don’t need to pay friends.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:03 AM

Dear Lord. Ed, read this thread. HA needs another Open Registration today and resulting influx of Paulnuts like a hole in the freakin’ head.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:03 AM

Ron Paul says that the US should “[refuse] to threaten, bribe, or occupy any other nation.”

How un-American is that?

dave742 on December 14, 2011 at 9:05 AM

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:02 AM

????????

HD, you’re frothing, and frankly that last rant made little grammatical sense. Perhaps you’d like to take another shot?

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:05 AM

saus on December 14, 2011 at 8:50 AM
You aren’t an American citizen.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:02 AM

So what? Saus has proved over the many years he’s commented here to be a gigantic supporter of America, American ideals and the US MIlitary. Way more than your average paul supporter.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:06 AM

Morning Hawk. Its become obvious what a religious like following Ron Paul has. The man could say absolutely any off-the-wall, crazy stuff and his minions would be shouting it from the rooftops like gospel. No need for it to make sense, or be based in reality, or be based on facts. If crazy Uncle Paul says it then its true. Its not much different than hope and change, just a different flavor of Kool Aid. And yeah, the anti-militarism is alive and well with Paul’s disciples.

Logboy on December 14, 2011 at 9:06 AM

Capped off by a guest appearance from the legend from Jihad Watch, the anti-Semitic of all anti-Semitics, dave742.

Get the nets, Ed.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:09 AM

Do you even understand the context of the actions you’re addressing?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 8:57 AM

Do you? Or are you engaging in selective reading?

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:10 AM

HD, you’re frothing, and frankly that last rant made little grammatical sense. Perhaps you’d like to take another shot?

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:05 AM

Not frothing by a long shot. And you know what I mean. I posted his speech and you not only agreed with what he said, you edited it to say what you took his meaning to be. You as much edited in a direct accusation against the US Military in it’s actions in Iraq. I simply disagree with your and Paul’s assertion that we’re war criminals and terrorsts. Sorry.

Did you get it that time?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:10 AM

Do you? Or are you engaging in selective reading?

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:10 AM

Dude, there’s no selective reading on either of our parts. You simply agree with Paul’s speech that the US Military commited terrorism and murder in Iraq. You’re allowed to believe that. We just disagree with his assertion, okay?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:13 AM

Logboy on December 14, 2011 at 9:06 AM

And it just boils my blood to know what soldiers like you have given only to be compared to the freaking Russian and Chinese Armies.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:17 AM

Dude, there’s no selective reading on either of our parts. You simply agree with Paul’s speech that the US Military commited terrorism and murder in Iraq. You’re allowed to believe that. We just disagree with his assertion, okay?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:13 AM

So you are engaging in selective reading. You keep swapping the word “terrorist” when the word used was “terrorized,” and I gave you a scenario – a factual one.

So am I to believe that our intel was 100% accurate as well as our succes rate? No innocent homes were ransacked, no innocent people were rounded up in their house at the point of a gun? No one was terrorized at all, everyone smiled and opened the door after we politely knocked.

That is an achievement worth celebrating!

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:21 AM

The Ronulans may have gamed this pill. Hopefully people can be shamed to persuade them to leave the Paul corner at the Iowa caucuses.

Some have argued that Paul is not irrational on foreign policy, but it sounds like Obama supporters projecting their hopes on their candidate.

AP must have been snarky with the “Ron Paul could win Iowa” posts being cool. Only a Ronulan delta-male would think that and AP is almost a beta male, so he cannot be serious when contemplating the doom of America and re-election of Obama.

WhatNot on December 14, 2011 at 9:21 AM

Paul was one of a few Congressmen who did NOT criticize Israel for striking Iraq’s nuclear site in 1981.
Dante on December 13, 2011 at 7:27 PM

In relation to this, let’s remember how Reagan responded to that incident, as well as Reagan’s position on Israel in general. As the title of the article suggests, if Obama treated Israel like Reagan did, he would be impeached.

The country is moving further and further to the right over the decades, and we are becoming more and more of an Israeli puppet state. In another decade we won’t have to worry about elections – Israel will simply appoint our president.

Some would say that is already the case.

dave742 on December 14, 2011 at 9:22 AM

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:21 AM

Dude, who are people “terrorized” by?

And no there isn’t any claim to a perfect record of operations conducted by my or any other unit engaged. But by the same token, there isn’t this broad brush truth that you guys harp that we went to war for illegal reasons either. That knife cuts both ways.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:24 AM

You aren’t an American citizen.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:02 AM

So what?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:06 AM

Good to see the high regard with which you regard your fellow citizens.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:28 AM

Good to see the high regard with which you regard your fellow citizens.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:28 AM

You know exactly what he meant. Are you guys saying that an Israeli citizen has no right to post on HA?

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:30 AM

Dude, who are people “terrorized” by?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:24 AM

If someone, even someone I knew and trusted, kicked in my door in the middle of the night, detonated flashbangs, hoisted me out of bed, restrained me and my family while pointing guns at us… I’d say they were terrorizing me, yeah.

And it doesn’t necessarily make them “terrorists”. Happens all the time with domestic law enforcement in this country. I don’t call them “terrorists”, largely because of the connotation that steroid-addled fools have attached to the word.

Of course, I guess you could find a way to, through rather tortured logic, take offense. If one were a particularly sensitive lad, that is…

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:32 AM

You aren’t an American citizen.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:02 AM
So what?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:06 AM
Good to see the high regard with which you regard your fellow citizens.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:28 AM

Having a high regard for Saus means I don’t have an appropriate regard for my fellow citizens? Interesting logic.

I might imagine that since you and Doc Paul consider the insurgents in Iraq more honorable than US Soldiers, that you’re the ones who should do some soul searching in reference to what you think of your fellow Americans.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:33 AM

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:32 AM

And your’s is such a popular opinion. That’s why those anti-American military movies did soooooooo well at the Box Office.///

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:34 AM

You know exactly what he meant. Are you guys saying that an Israeli citizen has no right to post on HA?

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:30 AM

He has every right to post here, so long as Ed, AP. Tina and the good folks at… what is the name of our new ownership again?.. as long as they say he can.

Of course, much like I can dismiss HD’s opinions on the GOP’s nominating process, as he isn’t a member of our party, I can dismiss saus’ opinions on US foreign policy, as he really shouldn’t have a say as a non-citizen.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:34 AM

Are you guys saying that an Israeli citizen has no right to post on HA?

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:30 AM

Not at all.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:35 AM

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:32 AM

And if during the raid we found ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, detonation devices and timers, you’d had deserved every terrifying moment of it.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:36 AM

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:32 AM

And if during the raid we found ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, detonation devices and timers, you’d had deserved every terrifying moment of it.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:36 AM

And your’s is such a popular opinion. That’s why those anti-American military movies did soooooooo well at the Box Office.///

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:34 AM

Wouldn’t know. I use Netflix.

But I can tell you how the wars have fared at the political box office. I was there in 2006 and 2008. And I’d like to thank Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney, and Doug Feith for making Barack Obama possible.

Well done, dumbasses!

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:37 AM

My theory: The media’s doing everything possible to knock down anyone other than Huntsman or Romney, the two most liberal/RINO candidates. We the conservative voters, however, aren’t having it. They convinced Cain to drop out, now they’re attacking Gingrich. The votes they bleed off are going to go to a conservative candidate. I’m starting to consider Ron Paul myself, even though I think his foreign policy is lunacy.

WingedPanther73 on December 14, 2011 at 9:37 AM

Are you guys saying that an Israeli citizen has no right to post on HA?

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:30 AM
Not at all.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:35 AM

Then what was the purpose of your comment to him?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:39 AM

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:34 AM

Then, you shouldn’t be giving an opinion on Israel, either. And to extrapolate further, that would mean that canopfor (Canada) couldn’t contribute, either.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:39 AM

And if during the raid we found ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, detonation devices and timers, you’d had deserved every terrifying moment of it.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:36 AM

If??? Wait, you mean we didn’t have a 100% success rate and our intel wasn’t 100% accurate?

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Wouldn’t know. I use Netflix.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:37 AM

Nice ostrich impersonation.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:41 AM

And if during the raid we found ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, detonation devices and timers, you’d had deserved every terrifying moment of it.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:36 AM

Except you wouldn’t. And all too often, cops in this country don’t find the drugs they were certain were there. And sometimes, innocent people get killed in the process.

And sometimes in Iraq, our teams would kick in the door, terrorize the people inside, and… lo and behold… just a bunch of innocent Arabs, huddled in the dark, scared out of their wits for no good reason other than faulty intelligence.

Now, you want to tell me that, unlike US law enforcement, no innocent people got shot and killed during those raids? Okay. You were there, and I don’t have any court cases at hand. But forgive me for being skeptical of claims that nobody innocent got killed in raids in Iraq. From what I have heard from people I suspect who served there every bit as long as you, that claim just doesn’t pass the laugh test.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:42 AM

Then, you shouldn’t be giving an opinion on Israel, either. And to extrapolate further, that would mean that canopfor (Canada) couldn’t contribute, either.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:39 AM

Logic is not your strong suit.

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:42 AM

Well done, dumbasses!

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:37 AM

Yep, Ron Paul supporting zealots joining in the anti-war screed with half truths and outright lies didn’t have anything to do with putting Democrats back in power.

You’re like the fifth column John and Obama is the best thing that ever happened to Ron Paul.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:43 AM

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:42 AM

Coming from one of you guys, that’s hilarious.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:43 AM

Nice ostrich impersonation.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Coming from someone who wants to base our foreign policy on box-office receipts, that’s a compliment.

So tell me, should we calculate or take from the concession stand of future Persian War projects when figuring out whether to invade Iran?

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:46 AM

I might imagine that since you and Doc Paul consider the insurgents in Iraq more honorable than US Soldiers, that you’re the ones who should do some soul searching in reference to what you think of your fellow Americans.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:33 AM

Your imagination is off base.

Reference.

Due diligence requires more than kneejerk automated response. There is no logical way to twist Ron Paul’s dedication to Liberty as a discredit to his concern for every US citizen, particularly members of our Military. Read up on Paul’s legislation protecting the rights and benefits of our soldiers, veterans and spouses.

Repeating a competitor’s dishonest twist does no one justice.

maverick muse on December 14, 2011 at 9:50 AM

ep, Ron Paul supporting zealots joining in the anti-war screed with half truths and outright lies didn’t have anything to do with putting Democrats back in power.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:43 AM

Misguided wars and the attendant debt incurred by deficit financing them created those Ron Paul zealots HD. You have nobody but yourself and the neo-con clowns that duped you into supporting their policies to blame for the rise of the Ron Paul wing.

And in case you misses the first day of Politics 101, unpopular wars lose you elections. As well they should.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:51 AM

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:46 AM

If you think I want to base our foreign policy on box office receipts, you’re eye must be brown because you’re full of it. Ron Paul is a Father Coughlin wannabe, with some financial acumen thrown in. America cannot survive in isolation. If Ron Paul was everything you claim, he would have won the presidency in one of his numerous tries at the office. I was simply stating that you and your fellow Paulnuts are a political minority, albeit a vocal, and at times, unintentionally humorous, one.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:51 AM

Except you wouldn’t.

Except we did in Iraq.

And all too often, cops in this country don’t find the drugs they were certain were there. And sometimes, innocent people get killed in the process.

The analogy Paul used was about Iraq John, stay on subject.

And sometimes in Iraq, our teams would kick in the door, terrorize the people inside, and… lo and behold… just a bunch of innocent Arabs, huddled in the dark, scared out of their wits for no good reason other than faulty intelligence.

And sometimes planes fly into building.

Now, you want to tell me that, unlike US law enforcement, no innocent people got shot and killed during those raids? Okay. You were there, and I don’t have any court cases at hand. But forgive me for being skeptical of claims that nobody innocent got killed in raids in Iraq. From what I have heard from people I suspect who served there every bit as long as you, that claim just doesn’t pass the laugh test.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 9:42 AM

It was a war John. It happens. It doesn’t warrant Paul’s or frankly any of his supporters broad brush characterization of the entire force. You don’t hear about the daily grind operations where the materials were found and we managed to actually take them captive. Would you have proposed we didn’t engage in trying to counter their most effective tactic employed against our ground troops? Should we have just crossed our fingers and hoped for the best when our ground guys left the FOBs. I guess the only real mission you think my unit should have conducted was to have my MEDEVAC birds ready go pick up the pieces. Yep, it’s their houses so by God we should honor their right to make bombs and kill our soldiers.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:54 AM

. America cannot survive in isolation.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:51 AM

Who is proposing that we can or even should?

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:55 AM

building”s”

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:55 AM

maverick muse on December 14, 2011 at 9:50 AM

Read the thread for context. Because, I’m not sure what you’re trying to tell me based on what we’re arguing here.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:58 AM

It was a war John. It happens. It doesn’t warrant Paul’s or frankly any of his supporters broad brush characterization of the entire force. You don’t hear about the daily grind operations where the materials were found and we managed to actually take them captive. Would you have proposed we didn’t engage in trying to counter their most effective tactic employed against our ground troops? Should we have just crossed our fingers and hoped for the best when our ground guys left the FOBs. I guess the only real mission you think my unit should have conducted was to have my MEDEVAC birds ready go pick up the pieces. Yep, it’s their houses so by God we should honor their right to make bombs and kill our soldiers.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:54 AM

The disconnect here is mind-numbing. So you admit that innocent people were killed, that raids did take place on innocent civilians in their residences, but then you take issue because Ron Paul said it???

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:59 AM

Who is proposing that we can or even should?

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:55 AM

Excuse me. Non-interventionism. And I’m not White. I’m Caucasian.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:59 AM

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Spoken from your own derrière, it’s no surprise you’d deny the existence of clarity. Study the past two centuries of European/US/Muslim relations including the long term effects of “modern” policies that include the past decade’s “humanitarian wars” to “nation build” by “winning the hearts and minds of our enemies” through convolutions that completed the insane and vicious circle since 9/11/01 of US/al-Qaeda as allies this year.

No, though you’d like to project ignorance, you’re stuck in your own. Don’t stay stuck on stupid.

maverick muse on December 14, 2011 at 10:02 AM

Honestly, I just don’t understand Ron Paul or his minions. I listen to him in the debates and it sounds like the game Mad-Libs, where you choose key words and insert them into a document, to make a nonsensical, non understandable statement. Sounds like it might be intelligent, problem is it just doesn’t mean anything. I mean, I have a doctorate degree and I don’t understand him. I wonder how his minions understand him.

NOMOBO on December 14, 2011 at 10:02 AM

maverick muse on December 14, 2011 at 10:02 AM

Did you study under Father Coughlin? I thought better of you than that.

kingsjester on December 14, 2011 at 10:06 AM

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:58 AM

Doc Paul consider the insurgents in Iraq more honorable than US Soldiers

That is not correct. Reference Ron Paul’s own statements rather than what opponents fabricate for their own illogical purpose.

maverick muse on December 14, 2011 at 10:08 AM

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 9:54 AM

And sometimes planes fly into building.

Sorry, I thought we were discussing Iraq.

I know that some people think that they can continue repeating the lie, and continue getting away with it. So that, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, it is somehow a magical argument to be used when all else has failed, because at the end of the day, their argument amounts to nothing.

You know, HD, innocent people in Iraq (a country that once again, ofr those too stupid to read the 9/11 commission report, had nothing to do with 9/11) had their doors kicked in, had guns pointed at them, had their house ransacked, had their families terrorized, all on the basis of faulty intelligence, and lies.

Much like the war they were there fighting.

And I think that you know innocent people were killed in those raids. And I think you know that steps were taken to cover those incidents up. Maybe you didn’t witness them. But, much like the veterans I referenced before, I’m sure you heard the stories.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 10:10 AM

Gooooood Morning, HotAir!

Is there still time to halt the Open Registration? I swear it’s not too late, is it?

Because, moderators, you are opening a can of Ron Paul that will ruin your blog. I would suggest that you cancel everyone who has joined last week as well. Yes, that includes me. Willing to make the sacrifice if necessary.

spiritof61 on December 14, 2011 at 10:12 AM

The disconnect here is mind-numbing. So you admit that innocent people were killed, that raids did take place on innocent civilians in their residences, but then you take issue because Ron Paul said it???

Dante on December 14, 2011 at 9:59 AM

Who did you ever hear try to claim that any war has been prosecuted “perfectly”. I hope this isn’t a keystone to your sentiment here. Because my problem with Paul’s words aren’t in any claim that this or “any” war is even possible to conduct without CIVCAS, but in his generalizations that it speaks to the entire US Military. And his assertion that it inspired the insurgent uprising. All for political points. To make a speech. He’s privy to intelligence to the war and he should know better.

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 10:12 AM

I live in Iowa, and all I can say is many, many people here are not happy with any of the candidates..IMO that is why Paul is doing so well is some are caucusing for him as a protest just as some are going to caucus for Palin in the hopes we can gat a decent candidate that will stop an out of control DC.

Chris in Ottumwa on December 14, 2011 at 10:13 AM

I mean, I have a doctorate degree and I don’t understand him. I wonder how his minions understand him.

NOMOBO on December 14, 2011 at 10:02 AM

I have a Masters, and I understand him just fine.

Perhaps you should go to your institute of higher learning, and demand your time back (hopefully, you didn’t actually have to pay for that degree).

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Ron Paul is far from the perfect candidate. He’s a poor speaker, he’s a fossil and he tends to make misconstrued incendiary comments from time to time. However, with all that said, I need to know while I sleep at night that the chief executive will not sell out my personal sovereignty as well as the nation’s. Out of the current field, there can only be one and his name is Ron Paul.

Pitchforker on December 14, 2011 at 10:13 AM

And I think that you know innocent people were killed in those raids. And I think you know that steps were taken to cover those incidents up. Maybe you didn’t witness them. But, much like the veterans I referenced before, I’m sure you heard the stories.

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 10:10 AM

Not on any of mine.

Your?

hawkdriver on December 14, 2011 at 10:14 AM

Paul has always be well organized in Iowa, I don’t put much weight on it. Let’s wait and see what happens after Iowa.

TaxUsLess on December 14, 2011 at 10:17 AM

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