Did GOProud “out” a conservative gay politico?

posted at 6:45 pm on December 10, 2011 by Jazz Shaw

Well, here’s one story for the weekend which has certainly turned into a sizable tempest in an already full teapot. The Daily Caller reports that prominent conservative activist Andrew Breitbart has resigned from his advisory role at GOProud over their alleged outing of a Rick Perrry campaign adviser – one Tony Fabrizio – as a gay man after his work on recent a Perry campaign ad commenting on gays in the military.

It is with sincere regret that I announce I must step down as a GOProud advisory member. On numerous occasions I have spoken with [GOProud leaders] Jimmy LaSalvia and Chris Barron of the significant impact the practice of “outing” had in my evolution from the political left to the right. I was under the absolute impression that both agreed. I have a zero tolerance attitude toward the intentional infliction of vocational and family harm by divulging the details of an individual’s sexual orientation as a weapon of political destruction. As an “Advisory Board member” I was not consulted on this extreme and punitive act. Clearly, there are more productive means to debate controversial ideas and settle conflicts. Therefore, I cannot in good conscience stand with GOProud. I still stand by gay conservatives who boldly and in the face of much criticism from many fronts fight for limited government, lower taxes, a strong national defense as well as the other core conservative principles.

As Matt Lewis notes, GOProud leaders Chris Barron and Jimmy LaSalvia responded to this earlier. They also followed up by saying they were rather surprised at the outrage (pardon the pun) over this.

There has been quite a bit of press coverage in the last 24 hours regarding our comments about Tony Fabrizio and his role in the Perry campaign, I just wanted to briefly bring you all up to speed on the background. First here is our statement on this yesterday: http://www.goproud.org/goproud-statement-on-tony-fabrizio-–-pollster-and-strategist-for-governor-rick-perry’s-presidential-campaign/

Second, both Jimmy and I have known Tony for years and have known that he was gay for years. Multiple media outlets contacted us after the Perry “Strong” ad debuted asking our opinion of Fabrizio’s role in the campaign given the anti-gay nature of the ad. Every news outlet that called asked our opinion of a gay man being a part of this campaign’s leadership.

I’d like to start off by saying that I’m not generally in favor of “outing” private citizens about anything, whether it’s their sexual orientation, their religion, or what flavor ice cream they like. That’s their business. But when you’re in the deep end of the political pool, things happen. But was this an “outing?”

Without giving too much away, I’ve been on the phone for a while with several people about this one. The general sentiment seems to be that, at most, Tony’s sexual orientation was one of those “secrets everyone knows about” if it was a secret at all. (And that, I should note, is only IF the allegation is accurate, which only Mr. Fabrizio is in a position to say.) But it’s also worth noting that there seems to be a fairly uniform consensus that this was “something that was known.”

Tony was apparently actively involved in Outgiving, a strong supporter of LGBT causes, and also did a lot of work for the Log Cabin Republicans. Now, neither of these things, by themselves, speak to the gentleman’s personal orientation, but it certainly sounds like it might come as a surprise to some of his associates that he was “in the closet.” (Again, with the aforementioned “if” invoked.)

But, going back to the point about “the only person in a position to know” here, the missing piece is a response from Tony Fabrizio himself. If he was, in fact, “outed” or – even worse – if an allegation was made about him which was totally untrue, you’d expect to hear some protests coming from him. Aside from a “no comment” that he gave to one reporter, I’m not seeing anything else along those lines. It’s not that it’s anyone’s business, but the allegations here are no longer focusing on Tony, but on GOProud.

I tend to take the GOProud reps at their word on this one. When you have reporters calling you and asking what you think of “a gay man being involved in the creation of the advertisement” then it’s probably excusable for them to think the reporters were asking from a position of already knowing. Also, GOProud doesn’t have any history of forcibly outing other gay individuals in politics, so it would certainly be out of character for them to start now.

UPDATE(S): It has been noted that Gay Patriot put out the following statement:

On behalf of the GOProud Board and its members and supporters, we want to make it very clear that “outing” a gay or lesbian individual is wrong and should never be used as a political weapon.

Private lives should remain just that — private. The right to disclose one’s sexual orientation belongs solely to each individual. We will continue to oppose “outing” as it has never advanced a political cause but only hurts individuals and their families.

We strongly regret the events of this week.

Also: While I have not located the original tweet from Jimmy LaSalvia, the issue has been raised that he used “The F Word” in it. (No… not that F word. The other one.) Just for your consideration.

UPDATE: (again) The original tweet. Caution: language may be offensive to some.


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“Militant homosexuals”? Really? You are just being silly at this point.
theoddmanout on December 10, 2011 at 10:45 PM

You must have lived in a very protected bubble not to have heard of groups such as “Act Up”.

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 10:54 PM

From a country that institutionalized slavery, massacred Native Americans, marginalized women and religious minorities for how many years?! Dear Lord, we put Japanese civilians into camps in what is still considered modern history!!

Pointing at the Islamist and saying “Well we’re better, because we don’t kill the gays, hur de dur,” doesn’t excuse 200 hundred + years of intolerance!

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM

And away falls the mask as the desperate little libbie tries to shame his country into giving him gay-sex marriage because of things that were happened before the vast majority of people who were alive were born.

You want to play that game, ZachV? Fine.

You should be ashamed of yourself as a gay person for the fact that the gay and lesbian community barebacked its way into killing hundreds of thousands of people and tried to blame it on Ronald Reagan.

You should be ashamed of yourself as a gay person for the fact that the gay and lesbian community profaned and attacked churches and religious people, such as ACT UP in St. Patrick’s.

And you should be ashamed of yourself that the Association of Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists and its members dress children as sexual slaves and take them to a sex fair to “show off”, while insisting that you’re a homophobe if you disagree.

You got it? You want to throw blame and guilt and shame, you can absorb some of your own. Play by your own rules and accept responsibility for these actions.

Or are you now going to bleat and insist that you aren’t responsible for the actions of other gays and lesbians, even as you try to shame people here into giving you what you want out of guilt for SLAVERY?

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 10:56 PM

Could be he missed the part after that where I said ‘ceptin fer when someone makes an unbased global claim.
whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 10:44 PM

No, it’s because I don’t particularly want to engage in a flame fest with you.
ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 10:50 PM

No, frankly, the question embarrassed you. You made a claim based on nothing and got called on it.

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 10:56 PM

You must have lived in a very protected bubble not to have heard of groups such as “Act Up”.

Yes-I have heard of Act Up, and yes, like many organizations, they are extremest. But, like other extremest organizations like the KKK, WBC, AFTAH, Redstockings, and the ALF, Act Up is in the minority, and mostly disregarded, even by those in the LGBT community.

But if your definition of “Militant homosexuality” is people who wanted the repeal of DADT and who want the legalization of gay marriage, then you are quite hyperbolic

theoddmanout on December 10, 2011 at 11:05 PM

Pointing at the Islamist and saying “Well we’re better, because we don’t kill the gays, hur de dur,” doesn’t excuse 200 hundred + years of intolerance!

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM

This statement flatly infuriates me.

People like ZachV are what give the gay and lesbian community a bad name. These are the pathetic, prissy little children who think they’re being discriminated against if their latte isn’t hot enough.

This country has been around for over 200 plus years. It has not by any means done things perfectly, but it damn sure isn’t the screwup that ZachV and his whiny little friends want to try to make it out to be in their screaming little tantrums over how mean everyone is to them.

You know what, ZachV? We are better than the Islamists because we don’t kill gays. You have a godawful time admitting that, because if you were to ever acknowledge that you have it pretty damn good in the United States, your grievance-mongering goes right out the window, doesn’t it?

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:05 PM

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 10:56 PM

There is no group on the face of this planet that is clean as the pure driven snow. The LGBT movement has it’s share of close-minded and violent people, and disrespectful and arrogant people like Barney Frank and Jimmy LaSalvia.

But that has nothing to do with what you just responded to. The issue is with you apparently believing that our country is free of intolerance, because ironies of ironies we aren’t as bad as Iran.

The issue is how it seems in your opinion that conservatism doesn’t respect human rights and willfully ignores the moral failures of our past. Or that only liberalism concerns itself of fair and equal treatment of individuals. That, SIR, is a bastardization of conservatism.

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:06 PM

Yes-I have heard of Act Up, and yes, like many organizations, they are extremest. But, like other extremest organizations like the KKK, WBC, AFTAH, Redstockings, and the ALF, Act Up is in the minority, and mostly disregarded, even by those in the LGBT community.

theoddmanout on December 10, 2011 at 11:05 PM

Sorry. ZachV just put up the rules which say all Americans are hateful, intolerant bigots because our country, quote, “institutionalized slavery, massacred Native Americans, marginalized women and religious minorities for how many years….put Japanese civilians into camps in what is still considered modern history!!”

So since all Americans are guilty and are thus forever tarred with shame and the label of intolerant whether they were even alive when these things were done, all gays and lesbians are guilty by ACT UP.

Again, want to play that game? Fine.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:08 PM

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 10:48 PM

You missed the gist of the passage…
They CAN inherit what’s been bought for them !!
Why do I care ??
Because I’ve been set free from it, myself, ok ?
You’ve misinterpreted ‘what I want’, is all.
What I want is NOT that gays are condemned to perdition !!
Nor does MY God. (which is why most gays must find another god who says “you’re just fine, all’s good, you’re OK, you’re born that way, … See all of those HUMAN professors that agree ? no need to believe you’ve been deceived, oh NO !!! Not that !!! etc)
I’d love nothing more than they’d all be shown what I’ve seen/ learned, too.
Open your eyes, and re-read what I’d quoted, ok ?
whaddaya see ?

pambi on December 10, 2011 at 11:09 PM

if your definition of “Militant homosexuality” is people who wanted the repeal of DADT and who want the legalization of gay marriage, then you are quite hyperbolic
theoddmanout on December 10, 2011 at 11:05 PM

You don’t think militant homosexual groups aren’t demanding either of those things?

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 11:09 PM

This country has been around for over 200 plus years. It has not by any means done things perfectly, but it damn sure isn’t the screwup that ZachV and his whiny little friends want to try to make it out to be in their screaming little tantrums over how mean everyone is to them.

You know what, ZachV? We are better than the Islamists because we don’t kill gays. You have a godawful time admitting that, because if you were to ever acknowledge that you have it pretty damn good in the United States, your grievance-mongering goes right out the window, doesn’t it?

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:05 PM

To heck we are better than the Islamist. I never said anything to the contrary. Howerver, stating that I shouldn’t speak out against intolerance because I’m not being killed.

What kind evil, backward statement is that?

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:09 PM

You missed the gist of the passage…
They CAN inherit what’s been bought for them !!
Why do I care ??
Because I’ve been set free from it, myself, ok ?

pambi on December 10, 2011 at 11:09 PM

Which means whatever they do is completely and totally irrelevant to you and will not affect one whit your own inheritance, right?

So again, why do you care?

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:13 PM

Howerver, stating that I shouldn’t speak out against intolerance because I’m not being killed.

What kind evil, backward statement is that?

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:09 PM

Actually, what I pointed out is that you are the one who is screaming from the rooftops that the United States is intolerant:

And while I disagree with eh on everything from the “limited government, property rights, freedom of contract and a strong national defense” list plus probably a whole lot more, tolerance has never been a value that was exactly embraced by the United States.

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 10:29 PM

And what I was pointing out was the irony of you, with all your privileges and perks, running around calling the United States intolerant when there were countries where you would be lucky to be alive.

Perhaps if you actually knew what suffering and hate looked like, you wouldn’t be so quick to accuse others of it. Perhaps if you had some real-world examples, you wouldn’t need to drag up slavery from nearly 150 years ago to “prove” how intolerant the United States is.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:18 PM

You don’t think militant homosexual groups aren’t demanding either of those things?

You are either a very good poe, or someone who believes in and says things that are extremely hyperbolic and not based in reality.

Gay marriage isn’t “militant”, nor is gay adoption, nor was the repeal of DADT.

There is no grand conspiracy in the scientific and medical community to hide the fact that you can turn gay people straight.

The removal of homosexuality from the list of mental diseases was not because the gay agenda/mob/mafia/media forced the APA and WHO to do so.

Anti-gay bullying programs in public schools are not cover-ups for the gay agenda/mob/mafia/media to indoctrinate kids and teens into becoming gay.

Gay people are not all pedophiles who molest young boys to “recruit” them into being gay.

theoddmanout on December 10, 2011 at 11:18 PM

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:18 PM

Really? I can’t complain that even in this thread I’ve had a user call me ‘dysfunctional’, another one quote a badly translated Bible saying I’m wicked and a sinner and another user who seems to believe I haven’t tried enough to seek out treatments and therapies to cure me.

No, I can’t complain or whine about that because we have the human decency of not trying to kill or imprison me. Right. I and others in the LGBT community are not really suffering or hated.

I just have to deal with these types of people day in and day out, who would rather spit at me and insult me than treat me as an equal, and that’s just perfectly fine. Because I’m not actually upset with their inability to respect others, I’m upset that my non-manly latte is too cold.

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:33 PM

You don’t think militant homosexual groups aren’t demanding either of those things?

You are either a very good poe, or someone who believes in and says things that are extremely hyperbolic
theoddmanout on December 10, 2011 at 11:18 PM

I understand you may feel throwing out the term “hyperbolic” as often as possible is very important, but I asked a question. Try it without evasion – are not militant homosexual groups demanding things such as “gay” marriage?

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 11:34 PM

So again, why do you care?

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:13 PM

Because, NDT, I hope others, including several dear friends and relatives, will find what I’ve found, is all.
Do you only think in terms of ‘caring’ based only on what it benefits YOU ?
Surely not ! I don’t.
What THEY decide/walk in has no bearing on MY freedom, but I sure wish they (you included) could walk in this with me … ahhhhh..
Finally Peace & freedom !

pambi on December 10, 2011 at 11:39 PM

Gay people are not all pedophiles who molest young boys to “recruit” them into being gay.

theoddmanout on December 10, 2011 at 11:18 PM

Gays are pedophiles. Gays are wicked sinners. Gays will go to hell. Gay have AIDs. Gays chose to be gay. Gays are flamboyant and feminine. Gays like to wear women’s clothing. Gays are mentally sick. Gays can’t play sports. Gays are obsessed with sex. Gays are unable to have committed relationships. Gays have more sexual partners than straight. Gays are unnatural. Gays had no relationship with their fathers. Gays are druggies. Gays are atheist. Gays are out to get and convert you. Gays all know each other.

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:41 PM

another user who seems to believe I haven’t tried enough to seek out treatments and therapies to cure me.
ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:33 PM

Why are you so terrified of answering? It was your own mocking against Christians claim that you “tried to pray the gay away” and you were still unable to extract yourself from homosexual acts. If a person claims they wanted to quit smoking or drinking but could not, it’s certainly reasonable to ask if they’ve tried some smoking cessation treatment or AA. Not everyone who goes such routes is a success story, but at least they honestly tried.

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 11:41 PM

Really? I can’t complain that even in this thread I’ve had a user call me ‘dysfunctional’, another one quote a badly translated Bible saying I’m wicked and a sinner and another user who seems to believe I haven’t tried enough to seek out treatments and therapies to cure me.

No, I can’t complain or whine about that because we have the human decency of not trying to kill or imprison me. Right. I and others in the LGBT community are not really suffering or hated.

I just have to deal with these types of people day in and day out, who would rather spit at me and insult me than treat me as an equal, and that’s just perfectly fine. Because I’m not actually upset with their inability to respect others, I’m upset that my non-manly latte is too cold.

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:33 PM

Pretty much.

Because, ZachV, as you may or may not have noted, I outed myself way up the thread.

And for some reason, I could really care less about all these things you’ve brought up because – surprise! – none of them affect me. They’re opinions from people who only know me peripherally, and on areas where I feel far more equipped to comment.

Their behavior is not “intolerance”. It’s them expressing their opinions. And frankly, one of the beauties of this country that you and your fellow LGBT grievance-mongers seem to absolutely detest is that everyone is allowed to have and express their own opinions.

Maybe you need to move to Canada. I understand they’ve got gay-sex marriage and the ability to sue religious people out of existence. Much more your style, I think.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:41 PM

What THEY decide/walk in has no bearing on MY freedom, but I sure wish they (you included) could walk in this with me … ahhhhh..
Finally Peace & freedom !

pambi on December 10, 2011 at 11:39 PM

That’s a lovely thought.

It would be far more believable had you not come in with your guns blazing going off about how we’re all going to hell.

You might want to check those parts again about how faith is a GIFT, not a compulsion. Or about how we should love and serve God because we want to, not out of self-interest for hellfire avoidance.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:44 PM

Gay marriage isn’t “militant”…

The removal of homosexuality from the list of mental diseases was not because the gay agenda/mob/mafia/media forced the APA and WHO to do so.

theoddmanout on December 10, 2011 at 11:18 PM

Homosexual behavior is found in human history as far back as we can see – to Sodom and Gomorrah, to ancient Rome, etc. It has been commonplace, and even considered normal in various times and places and cultures, but never UNTIL NOW has there been the idea of same-sex marriage. So yeah, that makes it radical and “militant.” If they can’t win in the ballot, they’ll intimidate people to the point of violence and vandalism, or they’ll have judges force it upon the people against their will.

And I’m curious. What major study/discovery was there that caused homosexuality to be removed from the list of mental diseases?

IcedTea on December 10, 2011 at 11:47 PM

Interesting read – a militant homosexual to-do agenda of sorts from 1987:
THE OVERHAULING OF STRAIGHT AMERICA.

Note how many of the tactics have been employed just in this thread alone, e.g. the “I’m a victim” ploy.

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 11:47 PM

Their behavior is not “intolerance”. It’s them expressing their opinions. And frankly, one of the beauties of this country that you and your fellow LGBT grievance-mongers seem to absolutely detest is that everyone is allowed to have and express their own opinions.
northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:41 PM

I’m with you, there, NDT
:-)

pambi on December 10, 2011 at 11:54 PM

Please quote for me, here, where I came …

in with your guns blazing going off about how we’re all going to hell.

Please ?

I’m on YOUR side, NDT, not against ya !!
Hey, I’m a Texan ! :-)

pambi on December 10, 2011 at 11:58 PM

Their behavior is not “intolerance”. It’s them expressing their opinions. And frankly, one of the beauties of this country that you and your fellow LGBT grievance-mongers seem to absolutely detest is that everyone is allowed to have and express their own opinions.
northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:41 PM

I’m with you, there, NDT
:-)
pambi on December 10, 2011 at 11:54 PM

If a person is involved in something thet s/he is so aggressively defensive of and evasive about even discussing, that’s never a good sign.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:00 AM

I understand you may feel throwing out the term “hyperbolic” as often as possible is very important, but I asked a question. Try it without evasion – are not militant homosexual groups demanding things such as “gay” marriage?

First of all it is not “gay” marriage, nor is it gay “marriage”. It is simply gay marriage, no quotation marks.

As for your question, I shall not be answering it. It is more than obvious from your ramblings that you are not someone who can be reasoned with using logic and science. You believe in things that are simply not true. You espouse absurd conspiracy theories. You are an advocate for ideas that are not based whatsoever in reality.

Unfortunately for you, the entire country is becoming supportive of gay rights, and public opinion of gay rights has been going up steadily for the past few decades.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:01 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:00 AM

Moi ?
Please explain, then, cuz that confuses me.
Could it be two glasses of vino ? Shhh.

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:05 AM

Pretty much.

Because, ZachV, as you may or may not have noted, I outed myself way up the thread.

And for some reason, I could really care less about all these things you’ve brought up because – surprise! – none of them affect me. They’re opinions from people who only know me peripherally, and on areas where I feel far more equipped to comment.

Their behavior is not “intolerance”. It’s them expressing their opinions. And frankly, one of the beauties of this country that you and your fellow LGBT grievance-mongers seem to absolutely detest is that everyone is allowed to have and express their own opinions.

Maybe you need to move to Canada. I understand they’ve got gay-sex marriage and the ability to sue religious people out of existence. Much more your style, I think.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 11:41 PM

Wow. You have never been discriminated against, have you? Either that or you’ve got the thickest skin known to man … and here I thought I was lucky, because my family eventually came to support me.

Just so you know, as we’ve been going back and forth, I’ve been consoling a kid over at r/LGBT. You know why? Because I can empathize the pain he’s going through and I want to make a better world for him.

“I just need to get this off of my chest. I feel incredibly alone. I go to a private, christian all guy high school that is very conservative. I want to be out and be myself so badly, but I know if I choose to do so I will be subjecting myself to a lot of hate. I just feel alone. I’m out to a few of my friends but none of them really understand. Does anybody have any advice on how to get through the high school times?”

… and if that makes me a Canada-lover because I don’t want him to suffer or be called dysfunctional, or have opinions thrown at him. So be it.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:06 AM

http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/n85c2/the_end_of_my_rope/

… if you wish to give this kid a “chin up” and tell him the great thing about this country is that others are free to express their opinions to him.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:08 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:00 AM

Moi ?
Please explain, then, cuz that confuses me.
Could it be two glasses of vino ? Shhh.
pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:05 AM

LOL, no, not you.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:09 AM

I thought the definition of “outing” was for a gay other than the person himself to reveal to straight people that the person is gay.

Too bad the gay priests weren’t outed before they had a chance to harm my Church. Too bad bisexuals and gay drug users weren’t outed before they had a chance to spread AIDS into the heterosexual community.

unclesmrgol on December 11, 2011 at 12:11 AM

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:06 AM
As per the couseling.., welcome to my world !!
That’s not a snark, as I do the same. Good on you, really !
Have y’all figured me out, yet ?
LOLOL

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:11 AM

Wow. You have never been discriminated against, have you?
ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:06 AM

“gays must be cast as victims in need of protection so that straights will be inclined by reflex to assume the role of protector”
THE OVERHAULING OF STRAIGHT AMERICA
By Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill
1987

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:12 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:09 AM

WHEW ! Thanks ! Hehehe.

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:13 AM

http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/n85c2/the_end_of_my_rope/

… if you wish to give this kid a “chin up” and tell him the great thing about this country is that others are free to express their opinions to him.

I admire that you are trying to help some poor kid, but, I seriously would not post that link on here in the hopes that dozens of people will rush over and send him uplifting messages.

Seeing the attitudes of some of the people on this thread, he will probably get messages about how he is a dirty sodomite who is going to hell, or messages that tell him he needs to go and see a therapist and get rid of his homosexuality.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:13 AM

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:13 AM

Wow. I did not think that far ahead.

You probably shouldn’t have quoted my quoted either.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:16 AM

Too bad bisexuals and gay drug users weren’t outed before they had a chance to spread AIDS into the heterosexual community.
unclesmrgol on December 11, 2011 at 12:11 AM

They need not use drugs to spread AIDs, it’s just part and parcel of (mostly male) homosexuality. Think of how huge the tab will be for the DOD (and taxpayers) to pick up & how much money and resources will have to be diverted away from veterans who were wounded.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:17 AM

he will probably get messages about how he is a dirty sodomite who is going to hell, or messages that tell him he needs to go and see a therapist and get rid of his homosexuality.
theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:13 AM

“get tough with remaining opponents. To be blunt, they must be vilified.”
THE OVERHAULING OF STRAIGHT AMERICA
By Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill
1987

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:24 AM

Gee, sort of a touchy subject, eh ??
Who’da’thunk ?
;-)
Ed, you magnificent bstard, you !
I keeeeeeeed !! :-)

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:24 AM

Whoops… Jazz, with Ed’s imprimatur… Hehe.

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:27 AM

Whoops… Jazz, with Ed’s imprimatur… Hehe.
pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:27 AM

Put down that fruit of the vine.
:D

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:30 AM

if you wish to give this kid a “chin up” and tell him the great thing about this country is that others are free to express their opinions to him.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:08 AM

So are you recommending the “It Gets Better” videos, put out by a charity whose founder, Dan Savage, endorses promiscuous sex, says monogamy is harmful, and screamed on national TV that he wants all Republicans dead?

Oh, I see. You don’t care about hate speech as long as it’s directed against anyone who disagrees with you.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:34 AM

So are you recommending the “It Gets Better” videos, put out by a charity whose founder, Dan Savage, endorses promiscuous sex, says monogamy is harmful, and screamed on national TV that he wants all Republicans dead?

Oh, I see. You don’t care about hate speech as long as it’s directed against anyone who disagrees with you.

Could you chill out? He didn’t mention a single thing about It Gets Better or Dan Savage. You simply assumed he was talking about those things, when really he never even mentioned them once. All he was asking for was people to go and tell that kid that there is nothing to be ashamed of if you are gay. And there isn’t.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:40 AM

Wow. You have never been discriminated against, have you? Either that or you’ve got the thickest skin known to man … and here I thought I was lucky, because my family eventually came to support me.

Yes, it’s such a pity. I have a wonderful job, a house, a nice car, money in the bank, a great partner, and everything I could ever want – but I should be seething with hate and resentment because people must be discriminating against me because of my sexual orientation!

Your attitude became much more understandable, though, when I read this.

… and if that makes me a Canada-lover because I don’t want him to suffer or be called dysfunctional, or have opinions thrown at him. So be it.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:06 AM

In short, you are threatened by people merely having a different opinion than you do.

And what you are going to teach this child is that if anything ever goes wrong in his life, it’s because he’s being discriminated against and that it’s someone else’s fault!

And thus does the cycle of left-wing brainwashing begin. Before the night is over, you’ll have this kid convinced that his only hope is to reject his family, repudiate his friends, dump his religious beliefs, and run away to the gays because no one else will ever understand him.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:40 AM

C’mon, NDT, let’s not all so ‘purist’ on a fella, eh ??
Can you admit that ‘hate speech’ has become defined as anything you or someone has DECIDED offends you/someone, right ?
Expressing an opposing opinion does NOT mean it’s meant in a spirit of hate.
C’mon, that’s SOOOOO progressive/ victimzsation camp, and I don’t think that’s you, is it ??
Hmmm ?

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:43 AM

So are you recommending the “It Gets Better” videos, put out by a charity whose founder, Dan Savage, endorses promiscuous sex, says monogamy is harmful, and screamed on national TV that he wants all Republicans dead?

Oh, I see. You don’t care about hate speech as long as it’s directed against anyone who disagrees with you.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:34 AM

I have no idea who that user that is. I’ve been PM’ing the kid. Secondly, who even cares? I don’t agree with Dan Savage. He’s a bully.

I’m enjoying your blog, btw. You’ve seemed to have done the opposite of moderation over the years.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:45 AM

Could you chill out? He didn’t mention a single thing about It Gets Better or Dan Savage. You simply assumed he was talking about those things, when really he never even mentioned them once. All he was asking for was people to go and tell that kid that there is nothing to be ashamed of if you are gay. And there isn’t.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:40 AM

Actually, I went over to his link and read the comments, where It Gets Better was mentioned profusely.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:45 AM

Sorry, guys, my connection must be really slow, and I missed alot of discourse !!
Yikes… I’ll sit back quietly and read… Hehe.
Love ya’s.

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:47 AM

And thus does the cycle of left-wing brainwashing begin. Before the night is over, you’ll have this kid convinced that his only hope is to reject his family, repudiate his friends, dump his religious beliefs, and run away to the gays because no one else will ever understand him.
northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:40 AM

Talking with kids about sex online probably isn’t the wisest thing for any adult to do in this day and age.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:48 AM

Actually, I went over to his link and read the comments, where It Gets Better was mentioned profusely.

I read the comments too-and the username “ZachV” was nowhere to be found. You simply saw a comment that mentioned It Gets Better, and assumed that he was the one who wrote the comment. And, as ZachV says above, he was not the one who left that comment.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:52 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:48 AM

Oh, oh, … No comment.

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:53 AM

I’m enjoying your blog, btw. You’ve seemed to have done the opposite of moderation over the years.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 12:45 AM

I started out with more faith in gay peoples’ ability to be individualistic and that discrimination was the problem.

I soon found out that it was the exact opposite.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:56 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:48 AM

Oh, oh, … No comment.
pambi on December 11, 2011 at 12:53 AM

It’s a good way to get in trouble, even if PMs are well-intended and innocent. Parents and/or school officials might not be too happy.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:57 AM

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:56 AM

Deception comes in sooooooo many forms / wears so many masks !!
Otherwise, it wouldn’t be so effective, would it ??
Sneaky, deception can be !!!

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 1:00 AM

I read the comments too-and the username “ZachV” was nowhere to be found. You simply saw a comment that mentioned It Gets Better, and assumed that he was the one who wrote the comment. And, as ZachV says above, he was not the one who left that comment.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:52 AM

Yes, because people never change their online IDs between websites. (rolls eyes)

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 1:01 AM

Husbear. That’s fantastic.

In short, you are threatened by people merely having a different opinion than you do.

And what you are going to teach this child is that if anything ever goes wrong in his life, it’s because he’s being discriminated against and that it’s someone else’s fault!

And thus does the cycle of left-wing brainwashing begin. Before the night is over, you’ll have this kid convinced that his only hope is to reject his family, repudiate his friends, dump his religious beliefs, and run away to the gays because no one else will ever understand him.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:40 AM

When that opinion is hateful, yes. Also – You’re seriously projecting. I am not in any way, shape or form a left-wing gay. Our only disagreement seems only to be over the level of tolerance in this country. You believe it’s dandy. I don’t believe it is.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 1:01 AM

Gays are pedophiles. Gays are wicked sinners. Gays will go to hell. Gay have AIDs. Gays chose to be gay. Gays are flamboyant and feminine. Gays like to wear women’s clothing. Gays are mentally sick. Gays can’t play sports. Gays are obsessed with sex. Gays are unable to have committed relationships. Gays have more sexual partners than straight. Gays are unnatural. Gays had no relationship with their fathers. Gays are druggies. Gays are atheist. Gays are out to get and convert you. Gays all know each other.

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:41 PM

Gays also play Soraka in League of Legends.

Or, at the very least, I do. (2-4-23 and 5-14-31)

Jeddite on December 11, 2011 at 1:03 AM

Yes, because people never change their online IDs between websites. (rolls eyes)

There are currently 7 different usernames that have posted comments on that thread, with only 1 username mentioning It Gets Better. How do you know that ZachV is the one who wrote about It Gets Better? He could be any of the other 6 usernames. Or he could have not posted in that thread at all. You are assuming. You are accusing someone of saying something, and you have no proof.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 1:06 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:57 AM

I agree, really !
But, when called upon … When..
A young friend has been approached BY an online pedaphile.. Wellllllll….
one walks along side, with counsel… two year’s worth… Yup !!

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 1:08 AM

I started out with more faith in gay peoples’ ability to be individualistic and that discrimination was the problem.

I soon found out that it was the exact opposite.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 12:56 AM

Really? I’ve moved in the exact opposite direction.

I started out believing it was a collective beehive of whiners, and that discrimination was not the problem. As I got more acquainted and involved, I saw more examples of discrimination and I got to see individuals more than a community.

That and I lived in Germany. Nothing like broadening your opinion when you’ve become acquainted with a society and people that are different than your own.

Why did you move in the exact opposite direction as me?

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 1:11 AM

When that opinion is hateful, yes. Also – You’re seriously projecting. I am not in any way, shape or form a left-wing gay. Our only disagreement seems only to be over the level of tolerance in this country. You believe it’s dandy. I don’t believe it is.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 1:01 AM

I agree. Have you seen what gays do to peaceful Christian demonstrators in places like San Francisco? It ain’t pretty.

IcedTea on December 11, 2011 at 1:13 AM

There are currently 7 different usernames that have posted comments on that thread, with only 1 username mentioning It Gets Better.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 1:06 AM

Actually, there are two mentioning it.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 1:15 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 12:57 AM

I agree, really !
But, when called upon … When..
A young friend has been approached BY an online pedaphile.. Wellllllll….
one walks along side, with counsel… two year’s worth… Yup !!
pambi on December 11, 2011 at 1:08 AM

And there are plenty of fakes, too. Some are just looking to “punk” a gullible,horny adult. But, yeah, it’s a “no go” area. Someone under 18 starts talking about their sex life and I’d be outta there pronto.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 1:16 AM

I started out believing it was a collective beehive of whiners, and that discrimination was not the problem. As I got more acquainted and involved, I saw more examples of discrimination and I got to see individuals more than a community.

That and I lived in Germany. Nothing like broadening your opinion when you’ve become acquainted with a society and people that are different than your own.

Why did you move in the exact opposite direction as me?

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 1:11 AM

Because I wasn’t planning to reject or blame my family for things; I was going to take responsibility for my own decisions and consequences.

And when that happens, you start to see the “discrimination” shrieking of the gay and lesbian community for what it is.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 1:22 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 1:16 AM
Yeah, and when a 40yo speaks of orientation within 30 mins of a convo with a 15yo, who chats with me, simultaneously… totally thrilled about his notice of him… one just cannot ignore.
Thankfully, he’s now free of that a-hole….
Wasn’t an easy road, I tell ya.

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 1:30 AM

Just sayin’ … That side’s out there… pullin’.

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 1:34 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 1:16 AM

Yeah, and when a 40yo speaks of orientation within 30 mins of a convo with a 15yo, who chats with me, simultaneously… totally thrilled about his notice of him… one just cannot ignore.
Thankfully, he’s now free of that a-hole….
Wasn’t an easy road, I tell ya.
pambi on December 11, 2011 at 1:30 AM

Ah, yeah that’s someone who is playing with fire. Kid gets ticked off for some reason and makes even a provably false accusation, there’s still gonna be a knock at the door and some fallout to deal with.

I only chat/PM with people who I know are adults and who I’ve known for awhile.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 1:38 AM

I started out believing it was a collective beehive of whiners, and that discrimination was not the problem. As I got more acquainted and involved, I saw more examples of discrimination and I got to see individuals more than a community.

That and I lived in Germany. Nothing like broadening your opinion when you’ve become acquainted with a society and people that are different than your own.

Why did you move in the exact opposite direction as me?

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 1:11 AM

Because I wasn’t planning to reject or blame my family for things; I was going to take responsibility for my own decisions and consequences.

And when that happens, you start to see the “discrimination” shrieking of the gay and lesbian community for what it is.

northdallasthirty on December 11, 2011 at 1:22 AM

You know, maybe it’s Europe. Call me an lib, or a leftist or what have you … but I would never ever even think to show a same-sex PDA or let onto my orientation in American public. That would be provocative, and I don’t particularly enjoy earning disgusted looks or having “opinions” thrown at me.

Germany? Too easy. Marriage is shot down by the Catholics in Bayern, but even so … two men could be PDA-ing in the middle of Marktplatz and not turn heads. They just don’t give a rip. The level of acceptance and tolerance is unbelievable.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 1:44 AM

… with respect to the LGBT issue, that it. I heard some pretty nasty things said towards Turks people.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 1:49 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 1:38 AM

I just don’t want you to misunderstand me, here.
I was chatting with my adopted son online, in another country, WC.
He was THRILLED to have been ‘pulled’, not understanding the consequences re that ‘phile’.
Ok ???
There was NO false accusation involved, here … deception is SOOOOOOO powerful !
He’d copy/paste some of their chats, having fallen hopelessly ‘in love’ with this puller.
Believe me, I had the dude’s name, addy. IP addy, etc at hand !

It happens, WC …. many are out there, on the hunt.

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 1:51 AM

First of all it is not “gay” marriage, nor is it gay “marriage”. It is simply gay marriage, no quotation marks.

theoddmanout on December 11, 2011 at 12:01 AM

No, it’s not gay marriage at all, whether or not you put any part of it in quotes. Gays have always been free to marry or not marry.

The new advocacy is for same-sex “marriage.” In this case, the quotes around marriage are perfectly appropriate, since marriage has always been between a man and a woman.

There is no such thing as gay marriage. That phrasing is chosen to imply that gays are being discriminated against in marriage. In fact, the advocacy is for the government to change the definition of marriage to include two men or two women, rather than a man and a woman.

It’s a typical liberal tactic to try to change the language in order to make themselves sound more reasonable.

There Goes The Neighborhood on December 11, 2011 at 2:03 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 1:38 AM

I just don’t want you to misunderstand me, here.
I was chatting with my adopted son online, in another country, WC.
He was THRILLED to have been ‘pulled’, not understanding the consequences re that ‘phile’.
Ok ???
There was NO false accusation involved, here … deception is SOOOOOOO powerful !
He’d copy/paste some of their chats, having fallen hopelessly ‘in love’ with this puller.
Believe me, I had the dude’s name, addy. IP addy, etc at hand !
It happens, WC …. many are out there, on the hunt.
pambi on December 11, 2011 at 1:51 AM

Ah, thanks for ‘splaning. But I was thinking of the “puller” getting himself in trouble. It can be very dangerous for young people online, the internet is full of adults who are on the lookout for someone they can “groom” and hook up with.

But, yeh, there’s plenty of posers online. I’ve read news stories about guys even proposing to someone they thought were a woman, only to be quite surprised later on, lol.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 2:07 AM

It’s a typical liberal tactic to try to change the language in order to make themselves sound more reasonable.
There Goes The Neighborhood on December 11, 2011 at 2:03 AM

Like how “liberal” became “progressive” and “Global Warming” became “Climate Change”. It’s all just so much Euphemistic New-speak.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 2:09 AM

I assume you’ve never heard of Dr.Robert Spitzer who, in 1973, lead the fight to have homosexuality removed from the American Psychiatric Association’s list of psychiatric disorders?

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 9:20 PM

The published summary can be found here in pdf form.

From the article whatcat linked:
But, Dr. Spitzer said, his findings suggest that complete change–cessation of all homosexual fantasies and attractions is probably uncommon.

From the study:

11 percent of men and 37 percent of women reported a complete absence of homosexual indicators.

83% of the men and 46% of the female subjects emerged from therapy still having feelings of attraction to persons of the same-sex. That is, after therapy they are bisexuals, not heterosexuals.

At PRE, 46% of the males and 42% of the females reported exclusively same sex attraction. At POST, 17% of the males and significantly more of the females, 54%, reported exclusively
opposite sex attraction

Of the 112 men (out of the total 143) who acknowledged that they masturbated, more than half (56 percent) said they used homosexual fantasies some of the time and about one-third (31 percent) said they seldom had opposite-sex masturbation fantasies. 24% reported using gay pornography.

To recruit the 200 participants, it was necessary to
repeatedly send notices of the study over a 16-month period
to a large number of participants who had undergone
some form of reparative therapy. This suggests that the
marked change in sexual orientation reported by almost
all of the study subjects may be a rare or uncommon outcome
of reparative therapy.

Dr. Spitzer himself:

Our sample was self-selected from people who already claimed they had made some change. We don’t know how common that kind of change is. . . . I’m not saying that this can be easily done, or that most homosexuals who want to change can make this kind of change. I suspect it’s quite unusual

I suspect the vast majority of gay people would be unable to alter by much a firmly established homosexual orientation.

the kinds of changes my subjects reported are highly unlikely to be available to the vast majority [of gays and lesbians] a small minority — perhaps 3% — might have a “malleable” sexual orientation.

What they (reparative therapy proponents) don’t mention is that change is pretty rare.

The beliefs that everyone is born straight and that homosexuality is a choice is absurd.

Others said:

The then APA president, Lawrence Hartmann, a professor at Harvard Medical School, called Spitzer’s study “too flawed to publish.” A Washington Post article stated that:

“Hartmann noted the study was retrospective, that it lacked controls or independent measurements, and was based entirely on self-reports by people who were motivated to say they had changed because of their affiliation with ex-gay or anti-gay groups.”

Jack Drescher, M.D., FAPA of the APA:
“As for the scientific merits of his study, I believe it is significantly flawed. One flaw is that the majority of subjects in the study had one 45-minute telephone interview with Dr. Spitzer and no follow-ups. Other than Dr. Spitzer, I can find no reputable researcher who will agree that this is an accurate way to assess
whether a person has changed their sexuality. That point was underscored in another study presented at the same symposium. Schroeder and Shidlo’s study (in press) found that many individuals who claimed to have changed sexual orientation during a first telephone interview changed their story at a second,
follow-up interview.”

LifeTrek on December 11, 2011 at 2:13 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 2:07 AM

I knew you’d see which SIDE I was coming from, but consider this, too .. this was NOT a poser… he was completely honest with our son, and proved to be who he said he was… a 40yo male, living where he said he was, etc.
Believe me, I found him out .. even stalked his FB, and his other favorite sites, to be sure.
Some do it SOOOO boldly … and they lurk forums one might never suspect.
WC, I love ya, but methinks you have a tough time admitting that there are gay stalkers out there, pulling.
Is that true ?
(You do NOT wanna know how he responded when dear son chose to NOT meet up !)

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 2:29 AM

I assume you’ve never heard of Dr.Robert Spitzer who, in 1973, lead the fight to have homosexuality removed from the American Psychiatric Association’s list of psychiatric disorders?

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 9:20 PM

The published summary can be found here in pdf form.

From the article whatcat linked:
But, Dr. Spitzer said, his findings suggest that complete change–cessation of all homosexual fantasies and attractions is probably uncommon.

The bottom line:
“This study provides evidence that some gay men and lesbians are able to also change the core features of sexual orientation.”

Also he notes that it would be wrong to deny treatment to those seeking to leave homosexuality.

Others said:
The then APA president, Lawrence Hartmann, a professor at Harvard Medical School, called Spitzer’s study “too flawed to publish.”

And yet it was both peer reviewed and published (as should be obvious just from the pdf itself).

Of course, any time a politically correct bubble is broken there will be angry protests by those who still hold to the PC bubble. As I noted, the militant homosexual groups went berserk, demonizing & vilifying the same person whom they had hailed as a “Moses” for his pro-homosexual work – and were now demanding he withdraw the study, placing as much pressure as they could on others to join the attack the un-PC results.

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 2:34 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 2:07 AM

I knew you’d see which SIDE I was coming from, but consider this, too .. this was NOT a poser… he was completely honest with our son, and proved to be who he said he was… a 40yo male, living where he said he was, etc.
Believe me, I found him out .. even stalked his FB, and his other favorite sites, to be sure.
Some do it SOOOO boldly … and they lurk forums one might never suspect.
WC, I love ya, but methinks you have a tough time admitting that there are gay stalkers out there, pulling.
Is that true ?
(You do NOT wanna know how he responded when dear son chose to NOT meet up !)
pambi on December 11, 2011 at 2:29 AM

It’s a good thing the creep didn’t even seem to try to hide who he was!

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 2:37 AM

Schroeder and Shidlo’s study
LifeTrek on December 11, 2011 at 2:13 AM

Oh, yeah, almost missed it – on that:
“Shidlo and Schroeder advertised on the Internet and other places, specifically looking for people who felt harmed by attempts to change sexual orientation.”
evaluation of the Shidlo and Schroeder study

(i.e. you’ll usually find what you’re looking for)

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 2:43 AM

whatcat on December 11, 2011 at 2:37 AM

Believe me, if he were in the US, he’s a flat-out felon.
I’ve learned more about the UK/Ireland pedo laws than I thought I’d EVER need to know… sigh.

BTW, any man-contrived therapy is doomed to fail.
But, there is a way. :-)

pambi on December 11, 2011 at 3:01 AM

I lost track of the thread while i was at work, but i read through it and i have a good question, i think.

What is wrong with “outing” gay republicans?

Shouldn’t we be eager to have these militant wolves in sheep’s clothing exposed so that we may rid ourselves of them?

eh on December 11, 2011 at 6:02 AM

This is one of the most boring conversations I have ever read on Hot Air.

lexa on December 11, 2011 at 7:30 AM

Personally, I think we, as conservatives, should disassociate ourselves from other conservatives who think gays need to be “cured” or marginalized from society.

The question of whether gay people are born gay or choose to be gay is beside the point. Sexual is personal. What’s more, it’s an issue of individual liberty. Who do people think they are, that they can cast judgement on who someone chooses to have sex with?

And I don’t believe that gay people “flaunt” their homosexuality any more than straight people flaunt theirs. The only difference is that no straight person feels pressure to hide who they are. No one bats an eyelash at a straight couple holding hands in public, but if a gay couple does the same, then the world must be ending.

I don’t find the religious arguments too convincing, either. Christ told us not to cast judgement (let alone spew hate-filled diatribes) and that judgement was for God alone. I doubt God would see one as being any better than the other. You won’t get a pass just because you’re straight.

Frankly, I’m sick of the whole issue. Some conservatives put themselves in a very bad light whenever this comes up, and they aren’t doing the movement any favors. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care whether someone is straight or gay…so long as they share our values of individual liberty and vote for candidates who will bring us closer to the vision our country’s founders laid out for us.

And in this environment, with crushing debt, infringements on our liberties, and politicians who shred the Constitution, issues like gay marriage are peripheral (at best) and not worth fighting about.

DRayRaven on December 11, 2011 at 8:44 AM

The general sentiment seems to be that, at most, Tony’s sexual orientation was one of those “secrets everyone knows about”

Who gives AF Jazz? Did the world know about it? Did I know about it? Did YOU know about it? Did Tony want YOU to know about it? Did he get a say in whether YOU should know about it? Seeing as how it’s HIS PERSONAL BUSINESS – shouldn’t he have had a say in revealing it?

Please dude.

GOProud was WAAAAAY out of line here.

HondaV65 on December 11, 2011 at 8:45 AM

I, personally, agree with Mark Levin. If you’re a Conservative, you’re a Conservative. You’re not going to be fiscally Conservative, and a political and social liberal, then call yourself a Conservative. You can’t be a political and fiscal Conservative, and be social liberal. Its simple binary math: you either are, or you aren’t. Gays are not Conservative. Homosexuality, and attempts to mainstream it are socially liberal agendas, and if you’re in support of that, you’re a liberal, plain-and-simple. Just recently, Alfonzo Rachel talked about the word “neocon” as being someone that matches this description, dating back from the 1960s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBXkx-qHWw

Going by how he worded it, Zo is right, and gays that call themselves “Conservatives” are neocons. As Mark Levin calls people that are insincere about Conservative values, they’re “fake Conservatives”. All-in-all, this is precisely why I put no credence in organizations like the so-called “Log Cabin Republicans”, and “GOProud”. They’re liberal organizations masquerading as Conservatives, put-upon by the Republican and Conservative establishment, and by the “Religious Right”. Hotair has long since been revealed to me as being a liberal site, given the leftist social sentiments of people like Allapundit and Morrisey, in their unwavering, enthusiastic support of homosexuality, and supposed “gay rights”, once even going as far as to redecorate the page with gay themes. That’s their right, but just like the gays calling themselves Conservatives, its just as untrue. Gay pseudo-Cons are going to have to learn that just because you say something is true, doesn’t make it so. If they’re actually telling people information about the sex lives of public and private citizens for political gain, that’s certainly a tactic of the left, and puts them that much further from Conservatism.

Virus-X on December 11, 2011 at 8:50 AM

If they’re actually telling people information about the sex lives of public and private citizens for political gain, that’s certainly a tactic of the left, and puts them that much further from Conservatism.

Virus-X on December 11, 2011 at 8:50 AM

this gets to the heart of my question above. if perry’s polster is gay, then he doesn’t belong on the campaign staff of a conservative presidential candidate, and goproud only succeeded in helping true conservatives rid their ranks of unwelcome usurpers.

so goproud did nothing wrong, right?

eh on December 11, 2011 at 9:12 AM

You can’t be a political and fiscal Conservative, and be social liberal. Its simple binary math: you either are, or you aren’t. Gays are not Conservative. Homosexuality, and attempts to mainstream it are socially liberal agendas, and if you’re in support of that, you’re a liberal, plain-and-simple.

To me, you’re either for individual freedom and liberty or you’re not. You can’t be for individual liberty on the fiscal side of things without supporting individual liberty on the social issues, as well.

I don’t want the federal government taking my money away to spend on unconstitutional programs any more than I want it telling me what I can or can’t do with my own property. I don’t think it’s the federal government’s perogative to sanction gays for being “abnormal,” either.

DRayRaven on December 11, 2011 at 9:19 AM

Homosexuals are heroes! Which is why they are so ashamed of their orientation… or something.

mankai on December 11, 2011 at 9:22 AM

If we are supposed to respect the choices of someone like chaz bono to be called a man, and to “identify” as a man, even though she is, in reality, a biological woman, why shouldn’t anyone who chooses to “identify” as straight be respected in the same way, even if they engage in homosexual sex? Leftists throw everything out the window when it comes to political warfare, including their identity politics.

I don’t support gay rights for the simple reason gays don’t respect my rights: gay groups are mostly worried about 1-2 issues, gay marriage and gay bullying or gay rights. They completely ignore my issues of over-taxation and government interference in my business and personal rights. I cannot support their causes when they continue to discriminate against me and my causes, probably because I am heterosexual.

Any group which largely supports leftist principals and issues is better sidelined pursuing issues about which I don’t care, and I don’t much care about gay marriage either way, but it sucks the steam out of their ability to push other leftist causes. It also causes them to naturally alienate people with their extremism (as they did re: Prop 8 in California) which further damages the democrats and the left.

That’s why I don’t concern myself with issues dear to (most) gay activists, not because I have anything against gay people. They don’t, by and large, support the same issues I do, and having them (and other democrats and leftists) waste time and money fighting for gay marriage and other gay related issues takes away from the really damaging things they do in this country.

Not to mention the fact, gay issues are a wedge issue that one day might drive religious black voters out of the democrat party. This fact should be exploited, the left has lied about the GOP and conservatives being bigoted and racist for too long. I think religious blacks are natural Republicans, and only democrat propaganda has kept them out of the party for so long.

babygiraffe on December 11, 2011 at 9:37 AM

To me, you’re either for individual freedom and liberty or you’re not. You can’t be for individual liberty on the fiscal side of things without supporting individual liberty on the social issues, as well.

I don’t want the federal government taking my money away to spend on unconstitutional programs any more than I want it telling me what I can or can’t do with my own property. I don’t think it’s the federal government’s perogative to sanction gays for being “abnormal,” either.

DRayRaven on December 11, 2011 at 9:19 AM

We are way past the government punishing people who self identify as “gay”. At this point, we are already deep into the government rewarding people for making that claim. If you want to fight for liberty, you will need to be pushing back against the use of the government to promote homosexual behavior.

Count to 10 on December 11, 2011 at 9:55 AM

Why must we label people at all? Why can’t he just be a conservative, rather than a “gay” conservative. I have to laugh when BO says he is going after the gay, black, Hispanic, Latino, educated vote–those aren’t all mutually exclusive! I am so weary of labels!

Me? I am white, 52, homeschooler, business owner, mother, daughter, sister, college educated, Christian, and conservative. Oh, and German, Irish, English, and French. What category do I fall in when a candidate looks at my demographic? Am I the Christian vote, the white vote, the college educated vote, etc?

herm2416 on December 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM

The only person in this whole mess I truly hate is Rick Perry, for driving a wedge between libertarian and social conservatives in a fruitless attempt to kickstart his DOA campaign. Jimmy LaSalvia takes a ton of crap from the left and steadfastly defends conservative ideals like smaller government, strong defense and law enforcement, all while being subjected to some of the most bitter hate this side of Sarah Palin. I can understand why he lost his temper and launched that infamous tweet. When you passionately defend someone and then have that someone turn on you for crass, personal gain, you tend to react emotionally.

Perry should just withdraw from the race and slink back down to Texas.

TheLastBrainLeft on December 11, 2011 at 12:40 PM

If you want to fight for liberty, you will need to be pushing back against the use of the government to promote homosexual behavior.

I wasn’t aware of the vast government conspiracy to convert upstanding straight people into flaming homos. If anything, there has been an effort to make the gay lifestyle more socially exceptable so they aren’t the object of derision (like we have seen in this thread) and able to live an open life like anyone else.

Now, we can argue whether that is the government’s role – and I would say it’s not a proper use of taxpayer dollars – but there is no effort to “promote homosexual behavior.”

Besides, younger generations are much less likely than others to see gay people as morally deviant perverts, so a lot of social conservatives will inevitably lose the debate.

It’s time to move on to the real problems – runaway spending, concentration of power in Washington, and govermnet infringements of our liberties – all of which can be summed up by a bloated federal government that doesn’t respect the Constitution it was built on. If we lose that battle, married gay couples will be the least of our problems.

DRayRaven on December 11, 2011 at 1:03 PM

I just have to deal with these types of people day in and day out, who would rather spit at me and insult me than treat me as an equal, and that’s just perfectly fine. Because I’m not actually upset with their inability to respect others, I’m upset that my non-manly latte is too cold.

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:33 PM

ok this is just ONE of the things youve said that really really ticked me off. I am a conservative Catholic woman. i am NOT intolerant . i have a 17 yr old son who i suspect may in fact be gay and just hasnt figured it out for himself yet how he feels about it . and i will support him no matter what because he is my child and i love him. my faith teaches me that being gay is not desireable that it is a sin , but it ALSO teaches me that as i am not without sin myself i have no right to condemn anyone else. i have never and will never condemn anyone over their beliefs or faith or sexual orientation. that is what being a true christian means. to accept that we are imperfect and leave it to God to decide in the end if we are to be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. and for YOU to sit here in this thread and claim multiple times that YOU consider people of faith to be intolerant IS EVERY BIT AS MUCH THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.You prove your own intolernce by your BIGOTRY. as for the whining i have heard from you about people spitting on you etc…..suck it up and grow up YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE BEING MADE TO FEEL BAD . Every single day i see something or hear something attcking my faith and beliefs. Alot of it comes from YOU AND YOURS. You want us to be tolerant of your lifetyle and yet YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO DEMAND THAT I GIVE UP MY RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS BECAUSE THEY OFFEND YOU ?! i believe Gaay people should be allow3ed to get married if they choose to . However YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO FORCE A CATHOLIC PRIEST TO VIOLATE HIS OWN FAITH IN ORDER TO ACCOMODATE YOUR DESIRE. you wanna preach about intolerance? go right ahead AFTER you get your own bigotry in check.

katee bayer on December 11, 2011 at 1:15 PM

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO FORCE A CATHOLIC PRIEST TO VIOLATE HIS OWN FAITH IN ORDER TO ACCOMODATE YOUR DESIRE.

I know you weren’t addressing me, but I agree 100%. I have no problem with gay people getting married, so long as churches are not forced to perform ceremonies. Marriage is a privelege, but religious freedom is a right. There is a big difference between the two.

DRayRaven on December 11, 2011 at 2:21 PM

Frankly, I’m sick of the whole issue. Some conservatives put themselves in a very bad light whenever this comes up, and they aren’t doing the movement any favors. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care whether someone is straight or gay…so long as they share our values of individual liberty and vote for candidates who will bring us closer to the vision our country’s founders laid out for us.

And in this environment, with crushing debt, infringements on our liberties, and politicians who shred the Constitution, issues like gay marriage are peripheral (at best) and not worth fighting about.

DRayRaven on December 11, 2011 at 8:44 AM

Thank you. =)

Gays are not Conservative. Homosexuality, and attempts to mainstream it are socially liberal agendas, and if you’re in support of that, you’re a liberal, plain-and-simple.

Virus-X on December 11, 2011 at 8:50 AM

I’m sorry you feel that way. Like I’ve said before, this is the way that God created me. I never choose my sexuality, but I did choose to be open, to be happy and to push for a society that is more tolerant.

If you believe that precludes my ideas of limited government, strong national defense, personal property rights, freedom of contract and a strong moral society … apologizes from me.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 5:21 PM

I just have to deal with these types of people day in and day out, who would rather spit at me and insult me than treat me as an equal, and that’s just perfectly fine. Because I’m not actually upset with their inability to respect others, I’m upset that my non-manly latte is too cold.

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 11:33 PM

ok this is just ONE of the things youve said that really really ticked me off. I am a conservative Catholic woman. i am NOT intolerant . i have a 17 yr old son who i suspect may in fact be gay and just hasnt figured it out for himself yet how he feels about it . and i will support him no matter what because he is my child and i love him. my faith teaches me that being gay is not desireable that it is a sin , but it ALSO teaches me that as i am not without sin myself i have no right to condemn anyone else. i have never and will never condemn anyone over their beliefs or faith or sexual orientation. that is what being a true christian means. to accept that we are imperfect and leave it to God to decide in the end if we are to be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. and for YOU to sit here in this thread and claim multiple times that YOU consider people of faith to be intolerant IS EVERY BIT AS MUCH THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.You prove your own intolernce by your BIGOTRY. as for the whining i have heard from you about people spitting on you etc…..suck it up and grow up YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE BEING MADE TO FEEL BAD . Every single day i see something or hear something attcking my faith and beliefs. Alot of it comes from YOU AND YOURS. You want us to be tolerant of your lifetyle and yet YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO DEMAND THAT I GIVE UP MY RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS BECAUSE THEY OFFEND YOU ?! i believe Gaay people should be allow3ed to get married if they choose to . However YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO FORCE A CATHOLIC PRIEST TO VIOLATE HIS OWN FAITH IN ORDER TO ACCOMODATE YOUR DESIRE. you wanna preach about intolerance? go right ahead AFTER you get your own bigotry in check.

katee bayer on December 11, 2011 at 1:15 PM

I never accused you of intolerance, nor did I even mention religion in my post. You’ve taken it upon yourself to be personally insulted and include Christianity in the discussion.

Neither I, nor has anyone else here (I think … haven’t checked too well) has said they wish to force Catholic priests to perform gay marriages, and to be frank, that’s an absolutely ridiculous assertion.

Finally, have I called you a bigot? Have I called anyone here a bigot? Have I typed IN ALL CAPS blaming or chastising someone? Have I blamed religion, or Christians? I have not. You have.

ZachV on December 11, 2011 at 5:30 PM

We are way past the government punishing people who self identify as “gay”. At this point, we are already deep into the government rewarding people for making that claim. If you want to fight for liberty, you will need to be pushing back against the use of the government to promote homosexual behavior. – Count to 10 on December 11, 2011 at 9:55 AM

We have government promoting homosexual behavior, and how is our government doing this? I suppose you want “your government” to re-criminalize homosexual behavior?

SC.Charlie on December 11, 2011 at 8:07 PM

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